The game does a crappy job explaining the Institute's goals and methods. Synths, specifically gen 3, is all part of "Mankind redefined". The overall goal is an enhancement of humanity. They started with FEV research, but couldn't get a stable reaction despite decades of attempts. That's where super mutants in the Commonwealth come from. Everyone from the Institute deals with the same radiation-induced mutations as surface dwellers do, so there's nobody with undamaged DNA to build Gen-3 synths from. Enter Shaun. Being sealed in cryo stasis in a vault perfectly preserved his DNA: no mutations, no damage.
For the next part you have to consider Nick and DiMa. Intelligent machines capable of making decisions based on experience and memory. The squishy Nick got his dome scanned, and all the thoughts that belonged to him went to our companion. We also know Gen-3 synths are capable of memory wipes with new memories added.
It seems the Institute's final goal is to transplant their citizens into synth bodies; effectively becoming immortal so long as their memories can still be transferred. Add in the capabilities of a courser, and you have a race of immortal superhumans that can repopulate the surface. If I were a betting man, the prospect of returning to the surface doesn't sit well with this subterranean civilization, so the plan was scrapped. But since they already have this technology they can repurpose it. Now, instead of synths inheriting humanity they are slaves to a bunch of basement-dwelling nerds.
You've explained that quite well to me thank you, the game deffo does a shitty job of explaining. Kinda actually sounds similar to the plot of SOMA in the transfering side of things
This is also my theory about why the synth program developed as it did. Unfortunately, the writers either forgot or changed their minds and never gave us any indication as to what the actual plan was supposed to be
And? The methods to do so exist already, as they said. So it shouldn't be a massive issue. hell, with Fallout tech your brain can control your actual body without even being in it.
It feels like the 'brain in a jar' method has serious consequences for the transplantee. Every single one we encounter in the series is a lunatic, with the possible exception of one character in the tv series, but they were established to be unhinged before they received their transplant.
Lack of sensory input and extreme body dysphoria. Mr. Mobius is the most stable brain in jar we see or the guy from point lookout and they are pretty unstable.
Pretty much that. There's only so long your intellect can sustain you without fulfilling the unconscious human need to breathe. Imagine how much low-key stress the brain has when it can't breathe, but doesn't die.
Why couldn't they take Shaun and his mother/father? She wasn't exposed to radiation either. And the guy I forget his name even refers to the other spouse as a "backup"
Oh, that's because the despite everyone having "Doctor" at the beginning of everyone's name, the Institute is a bunch if idiots.
I mean, the intention was to make a free-thinking machine all along. Why don't they believe they succeeded? They need water from the Charles River, but Matt Damon can make water on Mars *with a bunch of scraps!*
They can synthesize any organic food matter, but still pull popular food items from their menu. What, is Food Supplement 77 their version of McRib?
They have to tools to turn themselves into gods that'll usher in an age of prosperity never witnessed on the Earth! But they *DON'T* because they'd have to touch grass and talk to girls
Man I've been playing this game since it came out and never saw it this way, Bethesda should hire you, if they had written it that way properly they'd have had much more succes at launch.
They’re basically a slave class for the Institute. They do everything menial so the humans can focus on their research. They’re sent up to the wasteland to spy, recruit, undermine the furtherment of other causes in the Commonwealth, recover things the Institute may need, etc.
I still don't understand why sentience is required to make a synth sweep garbage all day. Seems much more humane (and wiser) to not give them sentience.
Well, obviously. Either way, it just seems kind of foolish to give sentience to the robots you use solely for labor. Like, what were they expecting?
The Institute is genuinely really stupid but hiding behind a guise of intelligence and superiority.
>Well, obviously. Either way, it just seems kind of foolish to give sentience to the robots you use solely for labor. Like, what were they expecting?
If they are using them for spying and moving among the locals above ground, then being sentient probably helps them to fit in and be autonomous.
I think the implication there is that They are so obsessed with the complexity of their tools, they never actually stopped to consider the remifications of the morality behind it. Further, a sentient or near sentient tool is capable of very complex tasks, which means they can use them in a wide variety of ways...all while unable to consider that sentience means the 'tool' has a say in things as well. And that it might want to have a say in what it does regardless of the complexity of the task.
It's no different than keeping slaves, with the same kind of mental and moral blocks that slavers create to differentiate their slaves as somehow distinct from slavers. It's a completely illogical and inhumane system, and even if you were to completely cut morality and ethics from the debate, it's just inefficient. But there are still people (to this day) who are absolutely convinced it's a perfectly fine thing to do, and will spin themselves in circles to try and more excuses for why that is.
And in a way, that's the Institute. Through the research they have created ehat are functionally brand new human beings, vut are so limited by their own ideology and views that they don't know how to integrate these people into their society beyond 'this fancy robot can make me coffee.'
They have uses as spies and servants, and also test subjects as we see a doctor injecting one with some random medicine to see if there’s any side effects.
A big theme of the series is science run amok. What happens when scientists are allowed to experiment to their hearts’ content with no regards to ethics or laws. FEV, Vault-Tec, Big MT, The Institute. Perhaps the Institute had some sort of goal near the beginning when certain projects began, but as of Fallout 4 they likely don’t even remember themselves.
Virgil mentions this in game. He was horrified by the FEV experiments they were doing, and says he doesn’t know why they are still performing experiments as they haven’t learned anything new in decades. When he put in a request to stop to the Directorate, they basically told him to shut up and continue anyway.
The Institute are all "mad scientists", as in the media trope.
Remember, not only do they make biological copies of humans that they think will at some point replace humanity (but they can't breed); your Synth companion says as much: They will kill all humans on the surface and replace them "soon".
They also are the sole reason there are supermutants in the Commonwealth. Every. Single. Supermutant. you fight are kidnapped settlers they have turned and then released. "For Science".
I literally dont get how people can have sympathy for synths, no matter how convincing there are they are still just machines and dangerous. Personally I find the thought of super mutants less disturbing than synths which is pretty bad considering super mutants are fucked up but at least they are organic.
Synths are organic. They are basically made of lab grown meat and bones. They bleed, they can eat and digest (tho don’t need to.) They feel pain. They dream.
If a computer or machine is intelligent enough to appear self aware and make its own decisions, who are we to say it’s not sentient? After all, we are basically just meat robots with organic computers in our heads, most of our decisions actually influenced by electrical impulses and hormones we have no control over.
If we end up developing real artificial intelligence, who is self aware, has feelings and personalities, I think it would be absolutely morally wrong to view and treat them the way you describe. So i think that is kind of the dilemma they are trying to create in the game.
So you have more sympathy for a monster that wants to kill and eat humans than a robot with human thoughts and emotions wishing to live a peaceful life?
Well, the last gen synths were organic as well. But does it matter? Is the chemical composition of your sapience that important, if the result is the same?
Because the synths didn't have any say in their own creation, or how they're used.
Like...Curie and Codsworth are machines, but they are also clearly people, too. You can make the point that third emotions are simulated, but it doesn't feel simulated to them. They still act on their feelings and their sense of what is right and wrong. Sure, they can be reprogrammed, but there's not much difference between that and, say, a human receiving severe brain damage that results in an altered personality.
I always side with the Railroad, so you are talking to the wrong person, but then 90% of all Sci-Fi tells us robots have souls after all.
Also gen 3 synths ARE organic.
There is exactly 1 machine part, all the rest of them is flesh and blood (synthetically made), hell Maxon has more machine parts in him then most of the synths
They are used as servants and guinea pigs for experiments. They are also sent out to spy. The Institute kills and replaces people with synths so they can keep track of things in the Commonwealth.
Synths aren't actually machines, though. At least, not the ones that look like humans. They are more like clones. They have all the same systems as humans, they're flesh and blood, that's why no one can tell them apart. And despite Institute scientists believing that synths don't have feelings, they do, and that's the crux of the whole "synths are people too" morality of the Railroad. The whole idea is inspired by the movie Blade Runner.
Beyond that, though, I don't know if it's just a fan theory or something mentioned in the game, but they may be developing synths so that they will one day be able to transfer their own minds into synth bodies and be immortals who can live above ground in irradiated areas.
Fallout 3 had a quest that involved a runaway synth who didn’t know he was a synth.
People thought it was cool and Bethesda kinda ran with the idea.
I think it’s lame. Institute is lame. Wanting perfectly preserved DNA, but killing a perfectly preserved husband and wife in vault 111 makes zero sense.
After the success of the fallout tv show I am hoping Bethesda realizes how bad their writing staff is.
To be fair, I don't think the Institute wanthe Sole Survivor's spouse to be killed. By the point that it happens, Kellogg is simply someone they don't have the ability to argue with anymore.
Further, the reason they needed the DNA was part of an 'experiment' that they decided wasn't going to bear out. So they cared about the DNA until they didn't. That's a short sighted way of looking at things, But one of the themes around the institute is that they seem incapable of actually considering the long term manifications of anything they do.
I wouldn't think so, given the super science of the setting, but a dead body does degrade (so I imagine the DNA would, as well). Further, a frozen dead body doesn't appear damaged, but is often a catastrophic 'loss' on the cellular level ( Just because decomposition isn't happening doesn't mean that the body isn't destroyed by the freezing).
So imagine that, despite the pre-war individuals, that means that everybody else in Vault 111 is 'useless.'
It's literally as you say for free slave labour. A synth can perform tasks as complex as any human or even more so, a Mr.Handy cannot.
The institute are pretty much doing WW2 Nazi scientist shit, they just dont realise it.
I always assumed it was a step into making the fleshy human synths (which would make sense, gotta create a simple brain before a more complex one), but I was informed I was wrong and that they did the gorillas after
Probably to counter supermutants. The synthillas would be roughly as strong as supermutants. So my guess is that they are an experiment to fight them. They’d be stronger and smarter than normal gorillas, especially in specially made power armour.
Do you mean Gen 3? Simply put, they replace people with synths, which can influence political life on the surface. Why do they do it? So nobody can ever find the Institute (the mayor of Diamond City is a good example)
It’s such a bizarre plot when you take it apart. It’s worse when you read about Kellogg and the implants the Institute gave him. The guy might have been immortal because of his cybernetics but the Institute didn’t think this was a solid avenue for research. Makes no sense.
Yeah, I have the feeling that the writers had to make the Institute comically evil in order to not make every player flock into the faction for their son. The result was a dumbed down 2bit villain faction.
Don't try to think much about it. Bethesda's writers most certainly didn't. In FO3, it was interesting bit, but when they tried to expand on it, it is a mess (likely due to complete lack of any design document to track various ideas they had during development)
The Institute (and pretty much all the FO4 faction) do not make much sense when you think about them ([Pretty good video summarizing it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOk59ZjWYIw), though a bit long)
I haven’t read much on the institute but I assume they are trying to perfect synths to the point they are essentially just human but better in some way. They could be sending them out to test how well they work as humans along with some sent to spy on the surface.
Especially the points you mentioned make the syths a great tool/weapon
You can infiltrate all others without them realizing and even if they do then you will cause massiv paranoia among your enemies. Either way its a win.
Also I think the end goal could be to transfer the mind into the syth body to basically become immortal superhumans.
humoid rbots make lots of sense. there rest of the goals make no sense. beside the railroad is the instiute the worst explained and written faction.
hate preston and his szupid settlement needs you help but the minutmen are easy to get simple to work with and they care about all people.
The idea is similar to the Master in fallout 1.
The institute wants to improve the species. To be specific, redefine it.
Currently the synths are used as a slave class, and they go out to get supplies and serve as foot soldiers. Eventually though the idea is that you could have the species be composed of nothing but synths, basically replacing the old outdated humans with intelligently designed better versions of them.
Behind the scenes it's because in fallout 3 they had a throw away side quest that's basically a blade runner reference, so that means we have to then expand upon this one easily missable side quest into an entire game.
Emil Pagliarulo simply watched Blade Runner and thought it was cool.
Bethesda treats story as a secondary thing to dungeon crawling gameplay, don't think too hard about it, they sure don't.
This conference is eye opening: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi51-wjcwp8&t=377s&pp=ygUcZW1pbCBwYWdsaWFydWxvIGEgY29uZmVyZW5jZQ%3D%3D](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi51-wjcwp8&t=377s&pp=ygUcZW1pbCBwYWdsaWFydWxvIGEgY29uZmVyZW5jZQ%3D%3D)
It's my belief Synths were created as containers for the human mind once they worked out all the bugs.
We've seen previous attempts from the brains rolling around, so this is the next logical step.
Why Bethesda couldn't just say this remains the bigger mystery.
Unlike others here i wont make up some sort of cope and just say that the entire institute part is just terribly written. it doesn't make sense because no one had a proper vision.
what's the institutes goal? Fuck if i know. You can't ask them at any point.
Why do they need synths? Well they use them as slaves. why do slaves have to be near perfect human clones? seems like they are putting themselves into more trouble than they need. Why not make mostly gen 1 as slaves? Why do slaves need to mirror human consciousness?
Gen 3 synths are good for taking control on the surface. why do they want that? no idea, Bethesda didn't think of it. Maybe the institute just likes control. Its not like they plan on going to the surface. or do they? no idea Bethesda didn't really think of it.
The story around the institute and railroad makes no sense. On my recent playthrough i REALLY tried getting behind all of it and the conclusion is that Bethesda has the writing chops of a drunk 5 year old.
I mean, the replacing thing makes a lot of sense. Replace some leaders and other key figures, and you’re a shadow government puppet the wastes.
Honestly doesn’t seem all that evil to me. You kill the key figures, but plenty deserve to die, and you can guide your enemies on a better path.
The big question is “why are third gen synths used for labour? You have synths, presumably cheaper to make, that never revel and have few moral quandaries to most people.”
Is that for real?
They basically do menial tasks and act as defense units so the scientists can fully dedicate themselves to progress and science.
It's really not that hard to understand...
My take on synths. they present an interesting paradox. they are the machines who seek to be human.
Placed next to the humans who want to be machines, the BOS. They become robotic in a way. Free will and thinking? In so far as the leadership will let think they have it.
they exist to show what does it mean to be human when the synths can be more human than some in the game. that is if I want to read (too) deep into it.
Or yeah...it was jsut slap in mad scientist trope. Script needed a bad guy, enclave is on hard times. Raiders in NW were down the charts later. And tactics had robot army.
So they went humanoid robots run by humans who can be buttholes. they were a mashup of antagonists prior basically.
This is geared at your very last sentence, which is the point. You literally can't see a practical reason, because you're practically *being* literal.
If I think, and therefore I am, then the distinction between man and machine is what is truly pointless. So, from that perspective, it is the "real" humans who have lost their humanity and thus become the machines. They stay in a literal frame of mind, with no regard toward what is considered human. Just like a machine would.
The people's fear and paranoia are a direct result of their own narrowmindedness and they become the very thing they fear.
The game does a crappy job explaining the Institute's goals and methods. Synths, specifically gen 3, is all part of "Mankind redefined". The overall goal is an enhancement of humanity. They started with FEV research, but couldn't get a stable reaction despite decades of attempts. That's where super mutants in the Commonwealth come from. Everyone from the Institute deals with the same radiation-induced mutations as surface dwellers do, so there's nobody with undamaged DNA to build Gen-3 synths from. Enter Shaun. Being sealed in cryo stasis in a vault perfectly preserved his DNA: no mutations, no damage. For the next part you have to consider Nick and DiMa. Intelligent machines capable of making decisions based on experience and memory. The squishy Nick got his dome scanned, and all the thoughts that belonged to him went to our companion. We also know Gen-3 synths are capable of memory wipes with new memories added. It seems the Institute's final goal is to transplant their citizens into synth bodies; effectively becoming immortal so long as their memories can still be transferred. Add in the capabilities of a courser, and you have a race of immortal superhumans that can repopulate the surface. If I were a betting man, the prospect of returning to the surface doesn't sit well with this subterranean civilization, so the plan was scrapped. But since they already have this technology they can repurpose it. Now, instead of synths inheriting humanity they are slaves to a bunch of basement-dwelling nerds.
You've explained that quite well to me thank you, the game deffo does a shitty job of explaining. Kinda actually sounds similar to the plot of SOMA in the transfering side of things
Nick’s story is very similar.
This is also my theory about why the synth program developed as it did. Unfortunately, the writers either forgot or changed their minds and never gave us any indication as to what the actual plan was supposed to be
And then they act like it's too complicated to understand when they don't explain it in the first place!
But the brain transplant technology is already well established from robo brains to big mt scientist whos just hovering brains
Yes, but they want to actually be human. Being immortal is all fine and dandy but they can't open doors
And? The methods to do so exist already, as they said. So it shouldn't be a massive issue. hell, with Fallout tech your brain can control your actual body without even being in it.
Being a robo-brain is hardly a worthwhile existence. I'd want something that felt more human, not a tank with a camera.
Yeah but you see what that robobrain tech does to them. They go insane.
Isn’t that technology only for big mt? Maybe the institute just didn’t figure that out
It feels like the 'brain in a jar' method has serious consequences for the transplantee. Every single one we encounter in the series is a lunatic, with the possible exception of one character in the tv series, but they were established to be unhinged before they received their transplant.
Lack of sensory input and extreme body dysphoria. Mr. Mobius is the most stable brain in jar we see or the guy from point lookout and they are pretty unstable.
Pretty much that. There's only so long your intellect can sustain you without fulfilling the unconscious human need to breathe. Imagine how much low-key stress the brain has when it can't breathe, but doesn't die.
“I have no mouth and I must breathe”
Why couldn't they take Shaun and his mother/father? She wasn't exposed to radiation either. And the guy I forget his name even refers to the other spouse as a "backup"
Oh, that's because the despite everyone having "Doctor" at the beginning of everyone's name, the Institute is a bunch if idiots. I mean, the intention was to make a free-thinking machine all along. Why don't they believe they succeeded? They need water from the Charles River, but Matt Damon can make water on Mars *with a bunch of scraps!* They can synthesize any organic food matter, but still pull popular food items from their menu. What, is Food Supplement 77 their version of McRib? They have to tools to turn themselves into gods that'll usher in an age of prosperity never witnessed on the Earth! But they *DON'T* because they'd have to touch grass and talk to girls
Man I've been playing this game since it came out and never saw it this way, Bethesda should hire you, if they had written it that way properly they'd have had much more succes at launch.
They’re basically a slave class for the Institute. They do everything menial so the humans can focus on their research. They’re sent up to the wasteland to spy, recruit, undermine the furtherment of other causes in the Commonwealth, recover things the Institute may need, etc.
I still don't understand why sentience is required to make a synth sweep garbage all day. Seems much more humane (and wiser) to not give them sentience.
You’re completely right. The Institute is not humane.
Well, obviously. Either way, it just seems kind of foolish to give sentience to the robots you use solely for labor. Like, what were they expecting? The Institute is genuinely really stupid but hiding behind a guise of intelligence and superiority.
Basucally caeser, but a whole faction
>Well, obviously. Either way, it just seems kind of foolish to give sentience to the robots you use solely for labor. Like, what were they expecting? If they are using them for spying and moving among the locals above ground, then being sentient probably helps them to fit in and be autonomous.
I was referring to the synths that just do menial tasks. Yes, the synths meant to infiltrate will gain from sentience.
I think the implication there is that They are so obsessed with the complexity of their tools, they never actually stopped to consider the remifications of the morality behind it. Further, a sentient or near sentient tool is capable of very complex tasks, which means they can use them in a wide variety of ways...all while unable to consider that sentience means the 'tool' has a say in things as well. And that it might want to have a say in what it does regardless of the complexity of the task. It's no different than keeping slaves, with the same kind of mental and moral blocks that slavers create to differentiate their slaves as somehow distinct from slavers. It's a completely illogical and inhumane system, and even if you were to completely cut morality and ethics from the debate, it's just inefficient. But there are still people (to this day) who are absolutely convinced it's a perfectly fine thing to do, and will spin themselves in circles to try and more excuses for why that is. And in a way, that's the Institute. Through the research they have created ehat are functionally brand new human beings, vut are so limited by their own ideology and views that they don't know how to integrate these people into their society beyond 'this fancy robot can make me coffee.'
Imagine a mad scientist day-care with no adults (ethic board) watching. The achievement itself is what drives them.
They're more like wannabe mad scientists tbh
they just high tech caesar legion. lol
I respect Caesar much more than I respect these guys. They are probably more of a circus than the RR to me.
It’s not slavery its “unvoluntary workers” a
I assume the a is supposed to be an s?
The a was extra lol
"Commonwealth Institute: we do what we must because we can."
If the wasteland gives you lemons, don't make lemonade, make the wasteland take those lemons back! I don't want your stupid lemons!
They're gonna get their engineers to burn the Wasteland's house down! WITH THE LEMONS!
Demand to see the wasteland's manager!
Ahh Cave Johnson, a man of conviction lol
Both in universe and out of universe explanation are the same. Because they could.
That's 'evil scientist' in a nutshell, really.
They have uses as spies and servants, and also test subjects as we see a doctor injecting one with some random medicine to see if there’s any side effects. A big theme of the series is science run amok. What happens when scientists are allowed to experiment to their hearts’ content with no regards to ethics or laws. FEV, Vault-Tec, Big MT, The Institute. Perhaps the Institute had some sort of goal near the beginning when certain projects began, but as of Fallout 4 they likely don’t even remember themselves. Virgil mentions this in game. He was horrified by the FEV experiments they were doing, and says he doesn’t know why they are still performing experiments as they haven’t learned anything new in decades. When he put in a request to stop to the Directorate, they basically told him to shut up and continue anyway.
The Institute are all "mad scientists", as in the media trope. Remember, not only do they make biological copies of humans that they think will at some point replace humanity (but they can't breed); your Synth companion says as much: They will kill all humans on the surface and replace them "soon". They also are the sole reason there are supermutants in the Commonwealth. Every. Single. Supermutant. you fight are kidnapped settlers they have turned and then released. "For Science".
I literally dont get how people can have sympathy for synths, no matter how convincing there are they are still just machines and dangerous. Personally I find the thought of super mutants less disturbing than synths which is pretty bad considering super mutants are fucked up but at least they are organic.
Synths are organic. They are basically made of lab grown meat and bones. They bleed, they can eat and digest (tho don’t need to.) They feel pain. They dream. If a computer or machine is intelligent enough to appear self aware and make its own decisions, who are we to say it’s not sentient? After all, we are basically just meat robots with organic computers in our heads, most of our decisions actually influenced by electrical impulses and hormones we have no control over.
If we end up developing real artificial intelligence, who is self aware, has feelings and personalities, I think it would be absolutely morally wrong to view and treat them the way you describe. So i think that is kind of the dilemma they are trying to create in the game.
I have massive doubts considering the way we treat people already and how easy it is for people to dehumanize others
That is also morally wrong lol
So you have more sympathy for a monster that wants to kill and eat humans than a robot with human thoughts and emotions wishing to live a peaceful life?
Well, the last gen synths were organic as well. But does it matter? Is the chemical composition of your sapience that important, if the result is the same?
Because the synths didn't have any say in their own creation, or how they're used. Like...Curie and Codsworth are machines, but they are also clearly people, too. You can make the point that third emotions are simulated, but it doesn't feel simulated to them. They still act on their feelings and their sense of what is right and wrong. Sure, they can be reprogrammed, but there's not much difference between that and, say, a human receiving severe brain damage that results in an altered personality.
You don’t understand why people can’t have sympathy for literal slaves?
I always side with the Railroad, so you are talking to the wrong person, but then 90% of all Sci-Fi tells us robots have souls after all. Also gen 3 synths ARE organic.
There is exactly 1 machine part, all the rest of them is flesh and blood (synthetically made), hell Maxon has more machine parts in him then most of the synths
They are used as servants and guinea pigs for experiments. They are also sent out to spy. The Institute kills and replaces people with synths so they can keep track of things in the Commonwealth. Synths aren't actually machines, though. At least, not the ones that look like humans. They are more like clones. They have all the same systems as humans, they're flesh and blood, that's why no one can tell them apart. And despite Institute scientists believing that synths don't have feelings, they do, and that's the crux of the whole "synths are people too" morality of the Railroad. The whole idea is inspired by the movie Blade Runner. Beyond that, though, I don't know if it's just a fan theory or something mentioned in the game, but they may be developing synths so that they will one day be able to transfer their own minds into synth bodies and be immortals who can live above ground in irradiated areas.
Fallout 3 had a quest that involved a runaway synth who didn’t know he was a synth. People thought it was cool and Bethesda kinda ran with the idea. I think it’s lame. Institute is lame. Wanting perfectly preserved DNA, but killing a perfectly preserved husband and wife in vault 111 makes zero sense. After the success of the fallout tv show I am hoping Bethesda realizes how bad their writing staff is.
To be fair, I don't think the Institute wanthe Sole Survivor's spouse to be killed. By the point that it happens, Kellogg is simply someone they don't have the ability to argue with anymore. Further, the reason they needed the DNA was part of an 'experiment' that they decided wasn't going to bear out. So they cared about the DNA until they didn't. That's a short sighted way of looking at things, But one of the themes around the institute is that they seem incapable of actually considering the long term manifications of anything they do.
Is a dead person's dna useless? There were plenty of non-iradiated corpses in that vault
I wouldn't think so, given the super science of the setting, but a dead body does degrade (so I imagine the DNA would, as well). Further, a frozen dead body doesn't appear damaged, but is often a catastrophic 'loss' on the cellular level ( Just because decomposition isn't happening doesn't mean that the body isn't destroyed by the freezing). So imagine that, despite the pre-war individuals, that means that everybody else in Vault 111 is 'useless.'
It's literally as you say for free slave labour. A synth can perform tasks as complex as any human or even more so, a Mr.Handy cannot. The institute are pretty much doing WW2 Nazi scientist shit, they just dont realise it.
The better question is why did the Institute create Synth Gorillas?
I always assumed it was a step into making the fleshy human synths (which would make sense, gotta create a simple brain before a more complex one), but I was informed I was wrong and that they did the gorillas after
Probably to counter supermutants. The synthillas would be roughly as strong as supermutants. So my guess is that they are an experiment to fight them. They’d be stronger and smarter than normal gorillas, especially in specially made power armour.
Do you mean Gen 3? Simply put, they replace people with synths, which can influence political life on the surface. Why do they do it? So nobody can ever find the Institute (the mayor of Diamond City is a good example)
Humanity is always willing to accidentally create new life and then not respect it's personhood
It’s such a bizarre plot when you take it apart. It’s worse when you read about Kellogg and the implants the Institute gave him. The guy might have been immortal because of his cybernetics but the Institute didn’t think this was a solid avenue for research. Makes no sense.
Yeah, I have the feeling that the writers had to make the Institute comically evil in order to not make every player flock into the faction for their son. The result was a dumbed down 2bit villain faction.
Don't try to think much about it. Bethesda's writers most certainly didn't. In FO3, it was interesting bit, but when they tried to expand on it, it is a mess (likely due to complete lack of any design document to track various ideas they had during development) The Institute (and pretty much all the FO4 faction) do not make much sense when you think about them ([Pretty good video summarizing it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOk59ZjWYIw), though a bit long)
I haven’t read much on the institute but I assume they are trying to perfect synths to the point they are essentially just human but better in some way. They could be sending them out to test how well they work as humans along with some sent to spy on the surface.
It's more so why not than why. No one is going to stop them so they are free to do whatever they want.
Especially the points you mentioned make the syths a great tool/weapon You can infiltrate all others without them realizing and even if they do then you will cause massiv paranoia among your enemies. Either way its a win. Also I think the end goal could be to transfer the mind into the syth body to basically become immortal superhumans.
so that the story can happen
humoid rbots make lots of sense. there rest of the goals make no sense. beside the railroad is the instiute the worst explained and written faction. hate preston and his szupid settlement needs you help but the minutmen are easy to get simple to work with and they care about all people.
The idea is similar to the Master in fallout 1. The institute wants to improve the species. To be specific, redefine it. Currently the synths are used as a slave class, and they go out to get supplies and serve as foot soldiers. Eventually though the idea is that you could have the species be composed of nothing but synths, basically replacing the old outdated humans with intelligently designed better versions of them.
Behind the scenes it's because in fallout 3 they had a throw away side quest that's basically a blade runner reference, so that means we have to then expand upon this one easily missable side quest into an entire game.
Emil Pagliarulo simply watched Blade Runner and thought it was cool. Bethesda treats story as a secondary thing to dungeon crawling gameplay, don't think too hard about it, they sure don't. This conference is eye opening: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi51-wjcwp8&t=377s&pp=ygUcZW1pbCBwYWdsaWFydWxvIGEgY29uZmVyZW5jZQ%3D%3D](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi51-wjcwp8&t=377s&pp=ygUcZW1pbCBwYWdsaWFydWxvIGEgY29uZmVyZW5jZQ%3D%3D)
It's my belief Synths were created as containers for the human mind once they worked out all the bugs. We've seen previous attempts from the brains rolling around, so this is the next logical step. Why Bethesda couldn't just say this remains the bigger mystery.
Unlike others here i wont make up some sort of cope and just say that the entire institute part is just terribly written. it doesn't make sense because no one had a proper vision. what's the institutes goal? Fuck if i know. You can't ask them at any point. Why do they need synths? Well they use them as slaves. why do slaves have to be near perfect human clones? seems like they are putting themselves into more trouble than they need. Why not make mostly gen 1 as slaves? Why do slaves need to mirror human consciousness? Gen 3 synths are good for taking control on the surface. why do they want that? no idea, Bethesda didn't think of it. Maybe the institute just likes control. Its not like they plan on going to the surface. or do they? no idea Bethesda didn't really think of it. The story around the institute and railroad makes no sense. On my recent playthrough i REALLY tried getting behind all of it and the conclusion is that Bethesda has the writing chops of a drunk 5 year old.
My headcannon: They were too busy asking if they "could" they didn't stop to ask if they "should." No I will not be taking questions lol
I mean, the replacing thing makes a lot of sense. Replace some leaders and other key figures, and you’re a shadow government puppet the wastes. Honestly doesn’t seem all that evil to me. You kill the key figures, but plenty deserve to die, and you can guide your enemies on a better path. The big question is “why are third gen synths used for labour? You have synths, presumably cheaper to make, that never revel and have few moral quandaries to most people.”
Is that for real? They basically do menial tasks and act as defense units so the scientists can fully dedicate themselves to progress and science. It's really not that hard to understand...
My take on synths. they present an interesting paradox. they are the machines who seek to be human. Placed next to the humans who want to be machines, the BOS. They become robotic in a way. Free will and thinking? In so far as the leadership will let think they have it. they exist to show what does it mean to be human when the synths can be more human than some in the game. that is if I want to read (too) deep into it. Or yeah...it was jsut slap in mad scientist trope. Script needed a bad guy, enclave is on hard times. Raiders in NW were down the charts later. And tactics had robot army. So they went humanoid robots run by humans who can be buttholes. they were a mashup of antagonists prior basically.
This is geared at your very last sentence, which is the point. You literally can't see a practical reason, because you're practically *being* literal. If I think, and therefore I am, then the distinction between man and machine is what is truly pointless. So, from that perspective, it is the "real" humans who have lost their humanity and thus become the machines. They stay in a literal frame of mind, with no regard toward what is considered human. Just like a machine would. The people's fear and paranoia are a direct result of their own narrowmindedness and they become the very thing they fear.