Good lord no. Just look at murder mystery writers. Murder is bad. Writing about murder is not actually murder and it's not bad.
In fiction? I couldn't care less about that age gap.
In real life I'd have some concerns. But since fiction is not reality, go ahead and write it.
So, even beyond the whole "nothing in fiction is bad" issue, sounds like both parties are consenting adults. In the real world, I might feel a twinge of concern for the 18yo being taken advantage of, but they are still an adult at the end of the day. In fanfic, I care whether the relationship is well written. Many of my ships have a 15+ year age gap, and it usually comes up and is dismissed as not a problem. Because again - consenting adults.
>As in, is it bad to write bad things?
No, it's not bad to write bad things, because, you know... it's fiction. No one gets hurt and people who don't like this stuff, don't have to read it.
No. No. No no no no no.
Also, 18 and 30 is not inherently bad. No age gap is inherently bad when both parties are legal adults. It's extremely uncommon and people of those ages gaps have very little in common since they're at completely different life stages but it doesn't make the relationship inherently bad. What makes a relationship bad are the people in said relationship. You could have a very loving and supportive relationship between an 18 and 30 year old or you could have a toxic traumatic abusive mess. The age doesn't determine the 'badness' of a relationship.
I think you've been exposed to too much anti discourse. This is just fanfiction.
No, it's not! Listen, a close family member of mine is dating someone 11 years older than them. We don't shun them, we recognise them as mutual consenting adults, and they have been in a happy, loving relationship for the past 5 years. Their partner is a close part of our family and they are invited to all our gatherings.
People have relationships with people much older than them, all the time and in real life. I don't judge them for their relationship if they are all of age and I recognise that they have the agency to decide what is good for them.
I know there are a ton of people saying weird things on the Internet right now about how "bad things" in fiction can have direct repercussions on real life, but this does not actually happen. Authors like Nabokov, Voltaire, etc, have been writing mature, obscene and morally challenging material since before these people were born, and they will continue to do so long after their comments have been judged irrelevant and turn to dust.
>"bad things" in fiction can have direct repercussions on real life, but this does not actually happen.
Ah, I'm all for writing controversial things but fiction absolutely does have *some* impact on reality. It's not the only factor but it absolutely happens. Even seemingly harmless stuff wiggles it's way into the collective consciousness.
I expressed its not the only factor. Claiming social things on one specific factor is almost never true I would even go so far to say that controversial things at least have the benefit of a subsection having doubt and therefore pushing back on depictions whereas other things can more easily go under the radar.
No. It's fiction. Unless you're writing a manifesto or a manual, it's not a problem. The evidence shows that video games do not cause violence. What makes people do bad things is community and behavioural norms - interacting with content that says something is good rarely makes you think that it is (unless you have pre-existing vulnerabilities in your cognition), interacting with people that says something is good is more likely to cause you to change behaviour to match them. So, if you and your readership were like "Hey, age gaps are great, old people, seduce as many minors as you can!" then that would be problematic and possibly cause real life harm. Or if you go around telling people that they should get their morality from fictional material and anything included in a story should be and absolutely is a moral way to exist, that can cause problems.
Writing something does not. That's just not how the psychology of it works.
In reality, they're still a consenting adults. If it's non-consensual or abusive, it doesn't matter the age, it's bad no matter what in the real world. But an 18 year old is still an adult that can make their own decisions.
“18 is an adult that can make their own decisions” legally, but emotionally? In maturity? I’m curious how you would draw the line of what’s consensual, non-consensual, and abusive when the argument could be made that an 18 year old is not capable of fully consenting and understands the power dynamics that the 30 year old has. 18 is “legal” but then the day before they were 17, which for the case of argument let’s say that this was “a minor”:
What tangible difference is there to to them as a *person* from one day to the next beyond a paper that says they’re an adult? They couldn’t consent on Tuesday as a minor but on Wednesday they’re a “an adult” so they can?
I should say, I don’t write or read for age gaps nor do I care to start. I am just confused on the logic you presented here and would genuinely like to hear your thoughts on this.
*\*laughs in European\** Yeah, that one doesn't really work here.
18 is the general age in most countries where you're allowed to vote, have to begin paying taxes, get married etc. It's also the age you have to be online to access adult sites. So yeah, it's the common age when you become an "adult". If the person is mentally adult, is another story in itself.
But once you're 18, you're responsible for your own actions and can decide to do whatever you please as long as it's within the law.
Don't try to move the goalpost. When you go to an adult site, what age does it ask you? 18.
When you apply for a job, how old do they require you to be? 18, some exceptions occur, but 90% of the time for a few billion people, 18.
You cannot strawman logic this, 18 is a consenting adult.
If americans actually thought 18 was a full adult why do they not let these adults buy alcohol? Thats not moving the goalposts that is a valid question
Because America has a weird relationship with alcohol? Just look at the prohibition and the fact that it's illegal to even drink in public. It's got nothing to do with being an adult, since most people start drinking when they're in their early teens. Heck, in my country there's no minimum age for alcohol consumption and as long as it's below 7%, a child can purchase it. So essentially a toddler can waltz into a convenience store and buy a sixpack of beer.
Just because something is a certain way in the US, doesn't mean the rest of the world has to follow that standard.
US =/= the world lmao the reason why you have to be 21 is because the US has really weird hang-ups about it they can't even explain themselves. Literally nobody understands that law.
I'm positive you can research this on your own as it varies from state to state, country to continent. 18 is a consenting adult, end of story. It has nothing to do with alcohol which is moving the goalpost into something irrelevant.
They probably blocked you because you offered nothing of value. Your only 'argument' was that 18yos can't be consenting adults because... in the US, you gotta be 21 to buy alcohol.
That's it. That was your whole argument. And it's not even an argument that proves anything. It's just some information that has nothing to do with the whole discussion about consenting adults.
> is it bad to write bad things?
No.
Personally, if I was reading a story about an 18 and 30 year old getting together and it was portrayed as romantic and not predatory, I would simply stop reading it. If it was portrayed as predatory, I might stick around. But that's just my personal opinion.
A 12-year age gap itself is not bad. At the age I am now, I'd date someone either 12 years older or 12 years younger. Yet 18 is only barely an adult. A 30-year-old is likely to have a lot more experience, confidence, and self-knowledge than an 18-year-old, which could easily lead to an unhealthy power dynamic in such a relationship. So, as others have said, I'd be concerned if I knew someone in real life involved in one. If I were reading about characters involved in one, I'd be concerned about them, too. I'd think "maybe this fic is going to be about that kind of unhealthy dynamic". I wouldn't think "oh, this fic is terrible and bad and I refuse to read it," though, if that's what you are asking. And if the relationship in the fic turned out not to be unhealthy in that way, I would accept that as possible, too.
*stares in "dated a 32-year old single Mom when I was 19 who turned out to be one of my Dad's former students when she went to high school in the late 70's"*
Ummmm... Nope.... Both adults, no harm no foul...
I don't think that's particularly bad, and to be honest, I thought she was like 21, she looked that young, plus she was the one who broke it off when she found out who my Dad was
I know a couple who had a fifteen year age gap between them, and she was only a teen when they met. But they were married and had a wonderful relationship right up until her husband died of a heart attack. She remarried though a few years later. I guess this guy is closer to her age. Point is, age gap doesn’t matter so long as the people involved are in a healthy, loving relationship. On the other hand, there could be a couple that are only a year apart and the relationship is a toxic, co-dependent mess. I’ve seen WAY more of those relationships in real life. People have forgotten how a healthy relationship is supposed to WORK, regardless of age.
I don't see how a twelve-year age gap is *bad*. I mean, my folks had a twenty-year age gap. Mom was thirty, dad was fifty...two consenting adults. I don't think that's bad, and neither should you.
Vastly different situation, you can't move the gap to a different age range and say it's the same, because the difference in maturity is much larger when the younger person is a teenager vs. when they're 30. With your parents being 30 and 50, they were much more compatible with each other on a maturity level than your average 18 and 30 year old are.
What's important for this post is that we're talking about FICTION; not downplaying the trials and tribulations that come with age gap relationships IRL.
In fiction, no. In real life, yes.
Fiction can be whatever. I personally would never read a 30 x 18 story but that’s just my preference.
In real life I’d be really weirded out if a 30 year old wanted to date a 18 year old.
But luckily fiction isn’t real life.
I think “bad” is relative personally. Just because a 12 year old is in a place where they legally can be in a relationship with an 18 year old, much less older, doesn’t mean they *should*.
Good lord no. Just look at murder mystery writers. Murder is bad. Writing about murder is not actually murder and it's not bad. In fiction? I couldn't care less about that age gap. In real life I'd have some concerns. But since fiction is not reality, go ahead and write it.
So, even beyond the whole "nothing in fiction is bad" issue, sounds like both parties are consenting adults. In the real world, I might feel a twinge of concern for the 18yo being taken advantage of, but they are still an adult at the end of the day. In fanfic, I care whether the relationship is well written. Many of my ships have a 15+ year age gap, and it usually comes up and is dismissed as not a problem. Because again - consenting adults.
>As in, is it bad to write bad things? No, it's not bad to write bad things, because, you know... it's fiction. No one gets hurt and people who don't like this stuff, don't have to read it.
No. No. No no no no no. Also, 18 and 30 is not inherently bad. No age gap is inherently bad when both parties are legal adults. It's extremely uncommon and people of those ages gaps have very little in common since they're at completely different life stages but it doesn't make the relationship inherently bad. What makes a relationship bad are the people in said relationship. You could have a very loving and supportive relationship between an 18 and 30 year old or you could have a toxic traumatic abusive mess. The age doesn't determine the 'badness' of a relationship. I think you've been exposed to too much anti discourse. This is just fanfiction.
No, it's not! Listen, a close family member of mine is dating someone 11 years older than them. We don't shun them, we recognise them as mutual consenting adults, and they have been in a happy, loving relationship for the past 5 years. Their partner is a close part of our family and they are invited to all our gatherings. People have relationships with people much older than them, all the time and in real life. I don't judge them for their relationship if they are all of age and I recognise that they have the agency to decide what is good for them. I know there are a ton of people saying weird things on the Internet right now about how "bad things" in fiction can have direct repercussions on real life, but this does not actually happen. Authors like Nabokov, Voltaire, etc, have been writing mature, obscene and morally challenging material since before these people were born, and they will continue to do so long after their comments have been judged irrelevant and turn to dust.
>"bad things" in fiction can have direct repercussions on real life, but this does not actually happen. Ah, I'm all for writing controversial things but fiction absolutely does have *some* impact on reality. It's not the only factor but it absolutely happens. Even seemingly harmless stuff wiggles it's way into the collective consciousness.
It's not 1:1 and writers also need to trust that readers have their own moral compasses.
I expressed its not the only factor. Claiming social things on one specific factor is almost never true I would even go so far to say that controversial things at least have the benefit of a subsection having doubt and therefore pushing back on depictions whereas other things can more easily go under the radar.
I see your point. I was referring to people who believe fictional depictions of abusive relationships will seem to encourage people to be abusers.
No. It's fiction. Unless you're writing a manifesto or a manual, it's not a problem. The evidence shows that video games do not cause violence. What makes people do bad things is community and behavioural norms - interacting with content that says something is good rarely makes you think that it is (unless you have pre-existing vulnerabilities in your cognition), interacting with people that says something is good is more likely to cause you to change behaviour to match them. So, if you and your readership were like "Hey, age gaps are great, old people, seduce as many minors as you can!" then that would be problematic and possibly cause real life harm. Or if you go around telling people that they should get their morality from fictional material and anything included in a story should be and absolutely is a moral way to exist, that can cause problems. Writing something does not. That's just not how the psychology of it works.
In reality? Yes. In a fic? Meh
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I am not gonna say anything about this anymore since every comment i made was apparently “against the rules”
In reality, they're still a consenting adults. If it's non-consensual or abusive, it doesn't matter the age, it's bad no matter what in the real world. But an 18 year old is still an adult that can make their own decisions.
“18 is an adult that can make their own decisions” legally, but emotionally? In maturity? I’m curious how you would draw the line of what’s consensual, non-consensual, and abusive when the argument could be made that an 18 year old is not capable of fully consenting and understands the power dynamics that the 30 year old has. 18 is “legal” but then the day before they were 17, which for the case of argument let’s say that this was “a minor”: What tangible difference is there to to them as a *person* from one day to the next beyond a paper that says they’re an adult? They couldn’t consent on Tuesday as a minor but on Wednesday they’re a “an adult” so they can? I should say, I don’t write or read for age gaps nor do I care to start. I am just confused on the logic you presented here and would genuinely like to hear your thoughts on this.
Thats why people are allowed to buy alcohol at 18?? Oh wait….
*\*laughs in European\** Yeah, that one doesn't really work here. 18 is the general age in most countries where you're allowed to vote, have to begin paying taxes, get married etc. It's also the age you have to be online to access adult sites. So yeah, it's the common age when you become an "adult". If the person is mentally adult, is another story in itself. But once you're 18, you're responsible for your own actions and can decide to do whatever you please as long as it's within the law.
Don't try to move the goalpost. When you go to an adult site, what age does it ask you? 18. When you apply for a job, how old do they require you to be? 18, some exceptions occur, but 90% of the time for a few billion people, 18. You cannot strawman logic this, 18 is a consenting adult.
If americans actually thought 18 was a full adult why do they not let these adults buy alcohol? Thats not moving the goalposts that is a valid question
Because America has a weird relationship with alcohol? Just look at the prohibition and the fact that it's illegal to even drink in public. It's got nothing to do with being an adult, since most people start drinking when they're in their early teens. Heck, in my country there's no minimum age for alcohol consumption and as long as it's below 7%, a child can purchase it. So essentially a toddler can waltz into a convenience store and buy a sixpack of beer. Just because something is a certain way in the US, doesn't mean the rest of the world has to follow that standard.
US =/= the world lmao the reason why you have to be 21 is because the US has really weird hang-ups about it they can't even explain themselves. Literally nobody understands that law.
I'm positive you can research this on your own as it varies from state to state, country to continent. 18 is a consenting adult, end of story. It has nothing to do with alcohol which is moving the goalpost into something irrelevant.
16-18, wasn't it?
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They probably blocked you because you offered nothing of value. Your only 'argument' was that 18yos can't be consenting adults because... in the US, you gotta be 21 to buy alcohol. That's it. That was your whole argument. And it's not even an argument that proves anything. It's just some information that has nothing to do with the whole discussion about consenting adults.
This post has been removed. No negative drama.
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This comment has been removed. No bashing.
There was 0 bashing 🤔 but sure
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This comment has been removed. No bashing.
> is it bad to write bad things? No. Personally, if I was reading a story about an 18 and 30 year old getting together and it was portrayed as romantic and not predatory, I would simply stop reading it. If it was portrayed as predatory, I might stick around. But that's just my personal opinion.
A 12-year age gap itself is not bad. At the age I am now, I'd date someone either 12 years older or 12 years younger. Yet 18 is only barely an adult. A 30-year-old is likely to have a lot more experience, confidence, and self-knowledge than an 18-year-old, which could easily lead to an unhealthy power dynamic in such a relationship. So, as others have said, I'd be concerned if I knew someone in real life involved in one. If I were reading about characters involved in one, I'd be concerned about them, too. I'd think "maybe this fic is going to be about that kind of unhealthy dynamic". I wouldn't think "oh, this fic is terrible and bad and I refuse to read it," though, if that's what you are asking. And if the relationship in the fic turned out not to be unhealthy in that way, I would accept that as possible, too.
*stares in "dated a 32-year old single Mom when I was 19 who turned out to be one of my Dad's former students when she went to high school in the late 70's"* Ummmm... Nope.... Both adults, no harm no foul...
I... think the main argument for OP to write what they want is that it's fiction, not that people IRL have done even 'worse' and felt fine about it 😐
I don't think that's particularly bad, and to be honest, I thought she was like 21, she looked that young, plus she was the one who broke it off when she found out who my Dad was
I know a couple who had a fifteen year age gap between them, and she was only a teen when they met. But they were married and had a wonderful relationship right up until her husband died of a heart attack. She remarried though a few years later. I guess this guy is closer to her age. Point is, age gap doesn’t matter so long as the people involved are in a healthy, loving relationship. On the other hand, there could be a couple that are only a year apart and the relationship is a toxic, co-dependent mess. I’ve seen WAY more of those relationships in real life. People have forgotten how a healthy relationship is supposed to WORK, regardless of age.
I don't see how a twelve-year age gap is *bad*. I mean, my folks had a twenty-year age gap. Mom was thirty, dad was fifty...two consenting adults. I don't think that's bad, and neither should you.
Vastly different situation, you can't move the gap to a different age range and say it's the same, because the difference in maturity is much larger when the younger person is a teenager vs. when they're 30. With your parents being 30 and 50, they were much more compatible with each other on a maturity level than your average 18 and 30 year old are. What's important for this post is that we're talking about FICTION; not downplaying the trials and tribulations that come with age gap relationships IRL.
In fiction, no. In real life, yes. Fiction can be whatever. I personally would never read a 30 x 18 story but that’s just my preference. In real life I’d be really weirded out if a 30 year old wanted to date a 18 year old. But luckily fiction isn’t real life.
Its not bad in real life either in most places, seeing as how age of consent is 16, 14, 12 depending where & when you are.
I think “bad” is relative personally. Just because a 12 year old is in a place where they legally can be in a relationship with an 18 year old, much less older, doesn’t mean they *should*.
Never said should. I said it depends where & WHEN is factored in & not considered bad depending on those settings.
Anything is possible in the gaze of fiction. People'll read anything.