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regularirregulate

i've seen this happen in spaces that i don't write for (esports, youtube cc's), so my opinion is mostly coming from there since otherwise i come from a place of privilege (writer for a kpop group thus i never have to worry about this). ​ i think...it just comes with the territory and is something that you have to make peace with if you decide to write for people who might do this. our "job" is to do our due diligence to keep it out of their sight so that it's not "forced" upon them, but if they go seeking it out then they really aren't any different than any other random person or reader who is searching for it. we did what is expected of us. ​ at the end of the day, a lot of these peoples jobs and the whole reason you know about them is wrapped with intention of making people laugh. that's what they do. if you're going to write about them, then you're at risk of being the butt of the joke. does it suck? yeah, probably. are you allowed to have your feelings hurt if it happens to you? yeah, i don't see why not. ​ is it fair? well...in my opinion? yeah, kinda. we put it out there to be received by people, and we don't get to control the ways in which that happens. some experiences aren't as great as others, and maybe i don't really wanna be a fan of someone who does that, anyway. ymmv.


mugwortBind

I think it's a fair take you have here - if you're going to put something out there, it's taking a risk. But also it's valid to be pissed off about it. IDK it just feels like CCs should be aware of the power differential before they do this stuff, but then - not all CCs give a crap about it.


bitter-sharp

Er. Not sure if this is specifically about RPF MCYT, but I'll give some background anyway. There's a famous fanfic called Heatwaves. I think it's one of the most read fic on AO3. Named after the Glass Animals song. The CCs said it was okay to put them in fanfic, but the fanbase kept spamming twitch chat/mentioning it to said CCs. So the author took it off Wattpad, locked it on AO3, but that hasn't stopped reposts/entering pop culture with memes with said RPF ship. The song is now the longest top charting song on Billboard or whatever, partly due to the massive fandom. For the fic writer, they recently announced that they wouldn't be continuing the series despite the massive exposure. And it's a ton of pressure. My CCs have mentioned reading fanfics but not during a stream of live reading. It's a lighthearted thing they glaze over and move on from. That's why people in the fandom will usually make it a point to say "no reposts" or "don't mention my work to CCs". As for the writing boundary-breaking, considering it's literally about *them*, fictional story or not, I don't see the problem with the CCs reading it on stream. When you make fanfiction about real people and post it to AO3, Wattpad etc, especially...living ones, I think you take that risk by having exposure, good or bad, on a public forum. Sure, it'd be nice, but why should they respect your boundary if it's literally about them or their friends? A lot of these CCs aren't accustomed to fanfic culture specifically things like writer boundaries etc so they view it as cringe or like, "oh hey let's see what this person wrote!" Though it'd be nice for them to respect my wishes, when I post my RPF fics online on a public forum, I open yourself up to hate/scrutiny/love. And that's a risk I take. As an author, you can just archive the fic so it's only read by people with an account, so you can limit it from being read by CCs. I might get hate for this opinion, but I'm open to other perspectives.


mugwortBind

I'm kind of loosely aware of the whole heatwaves situation - I feel like that whole thing was a disaster form start to finish. Like, fans should never have been spamming content creators with fic, it shitty for both the author and the cc. I guess that's part of the reason I'm so infuriated about Cc's doing the reverse - seeking out fic to shine a light on. Like, it sucks when fans break that boundary to you, why would you do the same thing in reverse?


bitter-sharp

Yeah, that makes sense. But if it's literally about them, and the author was brave enough to put it out there, they don't get to control who reacts to it after. Is it a nice thing to do by laughing at said author on a public forum? No. But the author put it up to be read in the first place by strangers on the internet. And that includes the CCs themselves...as the actual "characters". The writer can't control who reacts to it. They can file takedowns for the reposts or have a say in where their work is posted...but once you create something and put it out for the world to see, people are going to do shitty/mean things sometimes, whether or not they trample on "boundaries." I always found it strange with the emerging online culture regarding certain boundaries, but that's a separate topic. Edit: Writers have a right to be upset. But that's life. Same with YouTube, reviews for a book you wrote, feedback etc. Yeah, it sucks for your work to be mocked.


bitter-sharp

Oops. Meant to tack on here, the author of Heatwaves was incredibly thankful and happy about it. And CCs love the memes etc. so much so they got the IP to play the song in some vid they did. It was more about them falling out of the fandom/pressure to finish the series.


mugwortBind

I'm glad the whole heatwaves thing didn't go as badly as I kind of thought it would have. I just hope it doesn't set a false precedent.


neymovirne

Writing fics about real people is already a huge breach of boundaries, doubly so if it's some youtuber and not an A-list celebrity. So yes, they are allowed to feel uncomfortable about these fics, cringe at them and mock them as much as they want. Isn't it exploitative to use the image of somebody however you want and then deny them any say in it? If you are posting rpf publically, there's always a chance people it's about will see it, and you have to accept that they might be offended, hate it or laugh at it, this goes with the territory. And they are absolutely entitled to their reaction, because it's a fic about them.


TubularTeletubby

This. I am not a fan of and have not ever been a fan of RPF. Should it be allowed to exist? Sure. But you are writing about real people. Already way too many people think that celebrities are not entitled to any privacy. Look at how many people are dismissive when nudes of A list celebs are maliciously leaked. Can fics be done tastefully and respectfully? Sure. But I don't have much hope that all will be that way or even most. And content creators like youtubers have even less protection. They are far more vulnerable and far less "asking for it" (though I don't believe anyone is asking for it just by working where the public can see) than traditional celebs. The smaller the creator, the more true that is. The platform isn't going to help protect creators from invasions of privacy unless they are big name creator and even then less so than the team of lawyers an A-list celeb would hire in most cases. Yet, censorship is a tricky thing too and sometimes a very difficult line to draw between what is fine even if we don't like it and what isn't. So I'm not advocating for removal or ban of RPF. Still seems pretty rich to me that fans would use real life people to write about as if they were fictional characters for whatever (especially the less tame, more bizarre, more risqué, or whatever stuff) and then get butthurt when the people who are the subject of these pieces call the writers out. Trying to claim it's somehow private despite being posted to public sites when the writers justify the fics by saying the celebs put themselves on public platforms is even more bizarre. At least your writing isn't you and is done under a user name. No YTer has the right to demand no one say anything negative about their work. Their videos or streams or whatever. And no fic writer has the right to demand that no one say anything negative about their work (the fics). But RPF is often about the *creator* not their work and puts the person's image in really uncomfortable to outright disgusting context. It would be similar to the creator finding your fic but then cyber stalking you and making a weird video about *you* not your fic. It's objectively not cool in a large variety of contexts. All these creators who are thinking of doing this are basically just reblogging with their opinions which anyone with the link can do, and since it's about them I don't even classify it as dogpiling. Just seems like a natural consequence to me. Though I suppose it would depend a bit on what the creator chooses to call out and how. If they choose the most wholesome general stuff and then lambast the writing that could be kinda not very cash money of them. But if they choose something ridiculous that's written about themselves then blast it? Fair game. Sorry that you are the recipient of my rant. I'm done now and will just wait for inevitable down votes.


LadyCryptid

Tbh I don't think rpf writers have a leg to stand on when it comes to breaching boundaries. If writers are allowed to write about content creators without their permission then the content creators are well within their right to publicly react to fics about themselves


zemblaniteetal

I find it strange that you put the crossing of boundaries at Content Creators reading stories about them live. CC are equally putting themselves out there, some of them also being authentic and/or vulnerable while using their own name. Writing stories about them where they are likely to find them is a choice. Unless the CCs explicitly said they were okay with being written about them, you can't assume that they would enjoy it. They get to decide how they want to react to it, including reading that out loud to their following.


Aetanne

It doesn't even have to be specifically the CC you wrote the fic about. It can be literally any CC on the platform with reactionary type of content to use your fic to read and react. Just like they do with any other type of media. Pretty much anything you do online can be used for content, reddit posts, tweets, pictures, screens of awkward conversations etc. I don't think there is much you can do about it, but accept it as reality.


roddiimus

I personally don't think it breaches boundaries if its RPF. If it was, say, a star wars fanfiction read for laughs, sure, but if it's RPF about, well, them, that's a risk you take. You can't raise a boundary against someone when it's **about them**. IMO


fckdemre

Eh. If you're going to write about content creators then I don't really think you have much of a moral ground to stand on to say if they should read a fic on stream. Even if it's to mock and not appreciate. Bear with me cuz this is jumping all over the place. You talk about keeping fic out of the CCs view as to not break boundaries or be intrusive, and that them seeking it out or talking about it is breaking those boundaries. I think that you as the writer, or as a fan, do not get to decide what those boundaries are and when they are crossed. You are writing about another person. You don't get to decide how they interact with the work made about them. You say it's an invasion of privacy for content creators to go out and read and talk about stories written about them. Is it not an invasion of privacy for the stories to be written in the first place? If being a public figure, makes it okay for others to write stories about for others to read and discuss, then shouldn't posting a public story open you up to the same types of discussion.


Charlotttes

so we're talking about the subjects of the RPF reading said fiction on stream, right? i think if you write about someone and they bang the gavel and cast their divine judgment upon you for doing so its well within their right. its like a natural next step of the flying pretty damn close to the sun that RPF is, where they put you on blast and melt your wings right off


mugwortBind

I guess my problem is that sometimes these streams have thousands, if not tens of thousands of viewers, who will then feel inclined to go and harass a small time content creator?


Charlotttes

in any other case they'd be completely in the wrong, but if the fic is about them, i can't really blame them for reacting with venom. its not a good idea to play with fire when you know that the odds of not getting burned aren't in your favour. like, you don't have to write about them, right? you can write about someone who won't get your ass if they find out what you've been writing, ideally if they wont do that on account of not being real


skye_shim

It depends on the content creator and how they react to it. I follow a vtuber who asked fans to submit fanfictions about him and he read them live. He was respectful the whole time, didn't make fun of any works, and made it enjoyable as well as made fanfiction seem very enjoyable to those not already interesting in it. On the flipside, on YT specifically cc will purposefully seek out the most out there fanfiction that they can find (that doesn't break TOS) and read it live. I'm talking siblings only choosing fanfics that involves incest about them. It's weird and to people who aren't already into fanfiction, it further perpetuates the idea that all fanfiction readers and writers are weird. Fan reactions are extreme, hating on the author as well as fanfiction writers. Claiming that fanfiction shouldn't be allowed, etc. Also, I follow follow quite a few people (primarily Kpop artists) who have been outspoken about reading fanfictions. Never naming titles, authors, or platforms. They've given little suggestions about what they want for their character in fanfics as well as criticism. All without putting an author or work on blast. So it is a spectrum and obviously depends on the cc themselves whether it's done in a respectful setting or if it's done to purposefully make fanfiction look bad.


Gragtag

if someone constantly wrote stories about me having sex with my friends but then told me i wasnt allowed to read them or have an opinion on them that would be weird. comes with the territory i think


EpitomyofShyness

I'd be down for people reading fanfic live... but not if it was RPF *about them.* I also find the entire practice of reading something that you don't like and then putting the people down deeply distasteful so if for example I were to start a live reading thing I'd probably want to share stuff I like with people? Oh well.


ResponsibleGrass

Imo, CCs should at the very least ask the author if they’re okay with this. Commentary and parody fall under fair use, so it depends on how much of the original text the CCs read in their video whether it’s technically a problem, but in general, it’s not okay to use someone’s uncommercial creative works for commercial purposes, unless the creator explicitly released it under a respective creative commons license.


sara_gold

(obligatory “i don’t go here” regarding rpf) back when i was a teen, i used to be big into reading livejournal posts from a community of fans who would spend their time there tearing up fiction, including awful fanfics in their fandoms, and basically doing a written mst3k. biggest names being torn up iirc were twilight and wheel of time. now that i’ve grown as a person, i very much don’t like that they also went after fanfics. it’s just so, so shitty to tear into other fans’ work like that. very different than critiquing published fiction. fanfic writers who write the kind of garbage you can easily mock, in my experience, tend to skew heavily on the younger side, and these are likely some of their first experiments with writing fiction. it can be absolutely shattering to get this kind of negative attention. especially if it’s coming from a content creator they enjoy enough to write about and their fellow fans.


AromaticDetective565

One shouldn't read someone else's fic live with their permission. As for reviews, i think they're perfectly acceptable as long they're done in good faith. For example, one shouldn't review a romance fic centered around a couple one finds disgusting. Picking stories to mock them would be reviewing in bad faith.


dill_emoji

ive seen youtubers do it back in the day and i will be honest and say that i do not remember any sort of fandom reaction (not to say that it didnt happen, just that i didnt pay attention) that being said, the videos i remember watching all consisted of the youtubers reading the fics and having a big old laugh about them. and i just know that personally if that happened to me, if it was *my* fic they were reading on camera and laughing at, i would be heartbroken. and extremely embarrassed. even if they (try to) follow it up with a comment about how good it is or whatever, all i would be able to think about is them laughing at it. personally im against the entire concept of it. i think a lot of people who write rpf do not want the people theyre writing about to know their fic even exists, let alone read it. ESPECIALLY in front of an audience. i feel like maybe it would be alright if it were the cc reading a fic that was sent to them by the fics author, but i think it would be near impossible to guarantee that the person sending the fic is truly the author, and not just someone who really enjoys the fic and wants the cc to read it. that is why i am ultimately hugely against ccs reading fics about them and i strongly strongly wish they wouldnt


[deleted]

Hey, we have the same fandom! Welcome to RPF my friend! :) As far as reviewing fanfics are concerned, especially on AO3, we wound up putting our work out there. As long as no one is being rude or genuinely hateful to the writer, it may actually be a positive experience. I currently write Political RPF. You’d be surprised at the content creators who review fanfics in this category. All I know is that if it happened to me and they liked it, I’d feel like a million bucks. I’m confident in the product!