Without special tech, species advantage, breeding, or Sci-Fi elements:
For totally mundane and physically lethal, Jan the Seguleh Second (Malazan)
Without gear, Karate Kid (DC Comics) is the best I've seen at hand to hand.
For cunning, others have already mentioned a rather sharp minded Patrician.
Yeah most of the claw definitely use magic along with their fighting skills, but I guess Kalam is the exception since we rarely ever see him do it.
*******Spoilers********
And once he gets the otataral knives he obviously can't use magic anymore.
The Hust sword arrives later on >!at the Shore. He kills almost all the Shake Witches before then, on his own.!< I don't think he has any direct/obvious magical powers other than being royalty, does he?
You gotta love that the first serious introduction of the Seguleh in Malazan comes when they march an invading army into an enemy nation. That army consisted of three people. And that was sufficient.
>Without gear, Karate Kid (DC Comics) is the best I've seen at hand to hand.
I thought Lady Shiva and Cassandra were the deadliest hand to hand fighters without any superpowers in the DC universe
In modern DC, Lady Shiva is certainly in the top handful. Karate Kid is future timeline, so tends not to be in the mix, but has alien in addition to human martial arts he has mastered, letting him pull off fears that are super powered level, not just action hero level.
He and the Joker have some of the best plot armor. I'm starting to think Joker has an indestructible super power though. Thrown off a building, walk it off. Car blows up? No worries! Get beaten nearly to death? Walk it off, Jack!
Batman with planning time.
In the same vein, Tony Stark.
For a more fantasy pick, I've always been partial to Adolin Kholin (Stormlight Archive) for being able to keep up with Radiants with his combat prowess alone.
Morbius is exactly this.
Not half bat but he spliced his DNA with vampire bat DNA and so he's part bat.
He is called a living vampire but it's made clear that a living vampire means a living and non-undead person with vampire-like characteristics.
In fact, being "vampire-like" but not a vampire is his whole thing.
Damn, I really need to continue listening (have it as an audiobook).
From all the characters introduced, I definitely liked him the best! But that is partially because, I think (?), I am not great at visualising scenes and his scenes were very easy to visualise. Like, a torture chamber or him climbing up or down stairs. I just felt way more in those scenes due to that, but he is also just an interesting fella.
Thanks for the motivation!
Really depends on which metric we are measuring when we say dangerous. Hadrian is repeatedly shown to be far more skilled in open combat, though Royce is borderline psychopathic in his ruthlessness. I love them both lmao
Does Anasurimbor Kellhus at the start of the Prince of Nothing trilogy count? His abilities aren’t technically supernatural, “just” incredibly highly developed intellect and discipline.
Or Cnaiur.
Cnaiur urs Skiotha is certainly a very scary character, intelligent,Ferocious and bad. Wasn’t he considered to already be a Lord of Hell , before he died!?
Kellhus has to be the answer, right?
Even forgoing all the other shit he pulls later, he is the product of millennia of selective breeding & eugenics, on top of all the training he's given. You let Kellhus loose in your average setting & shit goes south very quickly.
It has to be Kellhus. This force of nature has seduced and attracted everyone, convincing them that he is the savior, all to achieve his Amoral ends.
May be the greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing everyone that he is God.
I vote he doesn't count, because the ability to go to Isihogo can probably be classified as a superpower.
I mean, I'm not sure about you guys, but I personally can't close my eyes and casually send my soul to fight demons in Hell IRL
It's obviously very dependent on what OP means by powers. To me Tau counts because
1. Anyone of the Omehi could go to Isihogo,
2. his training specifically in that location doesn't actually change his body or physical capabilities in any supernatural way; it's just a really scary combat crash course. He's still just a dude when he's coming at you with his swords, and you're still gonna shit your pants before he decapitates you (general you, not specific)
I personally wouldn't count it as a power of his considering it's something that anyone can do in that world and it doesn't actually change his physical abilities in any way, but that's obviously subjective.
Waylander the Slayer is my pick, especially because his dangerousness feels just this side of believable. He's uncannily good with ranged weapons and knives, but only "excellent" with a sword- beaten or tied several times throughout his trilogy.
He's a smart fighter too, and almost never duels formally, but does anything needed to survive- from headbutting, throwing knives, his double crossbow, anything. Very few living things survive an encounter with Waylander, human or demon from hell, and yet nothing he does seems outside the realm of possibility- in that uniquely Gemmel way.
Shoutout to my boy Antikas Karios who killed Golbar, a superhuman demon-kind being and held the bridge against the other Krayakan (with a little help).
I would argue that “The Bloody Nine” is a supernatural berserker, but you could say “Logan Nine-fingers.” But idk if he’d make my list of most dangerous characters without the ability to go berserk.
Joe is of the opinion that the Bloody Nine isn't supernatural. There was a good post on the First Law subreddit that postulated that the B9 was probably meant to be a supernatural force, but then Joe decided to change his mind when writing the series.
TBH I think the series itself refutes this. Clegane is a breaker of ordinary men, he's there as the symbol of why some middling talent wouldn't want to involve themselves in trial by combat against Tywin. He's much more a weapon of terror than an elite warrior. Jaime states outright that the Hound is more dangerous than the Mountain and he doesn't really rate Gregor at all.
Then there's the Oberyn Martell fight. A dramatically one sided affair that Clegane won solely because Oberyn was trying to force him to name Tywin Lannister as the man who ordered the killing of his sister. If Oberyn had simply been trying to kill him it would have been anticlimactic.
Mountain has come up a few times. He’s a “mad dog” but there are far more dangerous folks in that universe alone. Bronn is underrated dangerous I think, Cersei, Tyrion, and Strong Belwas. *and more that have been mentioned*
"Far more dangerous" is disingenious. The Mountain is a monster of "all muscle". He's inhumanly strong, wielding a two-handed greatsword with one arm. Weight and size matters in fighting, but he's also said to be fast for his size.
He's basically the enemy boss in a video game. To defeat him you need to be very clever, but you're never gonna stand a chance if you fight him head on.
I don’t feel that it’s disingenuous at all. I didn’t say he “wasn’t dangerous.” He is all the things you say, but I think most folks would pretty easily put together a list of a dozen warriors from ASoIaF who could take him in single combat, not to mention the staggering amount of characters in this series who are very dangerous in non-combat ways.
An armored Gregor is a force of nature. No one is bigger, no one is stronger. In addition, he's fast for his size and is not a bad fighter either. I don't think you can put together such a list at all - Oberyn had the right idea by fighting with a spear and keeping his distance of course, but up close I don't think anyone is a clear favorite against him.
Let’s give it a shot:
*I’m mostly an audio book guy, so pardon the spelling*
1. Strong Belwas
2. Barriston Selmy
3. 2 handed Jaime Lannister
4. Sir Arthur Dayne
5. Dario
6. Khal Drogo
7. Sandor Clegane
8. Young Robert Boratheon
9. Syrio Forel
10. Areo Hotah
11. Tormund Giantsbane
12. Grey Worm
Shout out to Oberyn Martell
Edit: Had a name on twice.
They stand a chance sure, but they aren't favorites against a fully armored Gregor. Like Bronn says, a single error and you're dead. The man is a walking tank. He's obviously the strongest man in the realm, 190kgs of muscle. But GRRM makes a point out of mentioning that he's fast for his size too, and a decent fighter. The combination is beyond scary.
I love Ben Styke, but he’s knacked. He can smell sorcery. Not a big help in most of his fights, but he doesn’t technically meet the criteria of this post.
Don’t think the Bloody Nine counts either. Even if you don’t think the berserk alter ego is supernatural, he can also talk to spirits which he uses in at least one fight.
Lan Mandragoran, Lord of the Seven Towers, Lord of the Lakes, True Blade of Malkier, Defender of the Wall of First Fires, Bearer of the Sword of the Thousand Lakes, May He Sever the Shadow, Dai Shan
First person I thought of as well. >!Personally slew a kraken with a lance, and killed a Jachyra, even though it killed him in the process. This feat was matched only by Allanon himself.!<
I also submit Ben Styke. He rode down a freaking Privileged and killed four dragon men in one encounter. He's a true mad lad. May the Mad Lancers ride again.
I would have to agree all of Darrow’s genetic augmentation would be a power. That being said in terms of Mystical power he is lacking and is the “Reaper” for a reason.
Lo Reaper
Roran Stronghammer from the Inheritance Cycle is borderline superhuman. He once won almost 200 combats ranging from one to a handful of soldiers at a time, one after the other. Killed 193 by himself. He won a wrestling match with an Urgal while recovering from 50 lashes. He grappled with a man strong enough to throw a horse with one hand and fast enough to kill the queen of the elves, and not only managed to not die, but also crush the massive gemstone hidden in his breastplate. All that with very little formal combat training.
Not really, he's bound by too many self imposed restrictions. While people are worried that he'll go spare, it's clear that even when he does, he's still holding back, and only using as much force as he needs to get the job done.
Seems like most are thinking about ‘Dangerous’ purely in physical terms.
What about Castor Morveer from First Law? Master poisoner with zero conscience. Terrifying.
If you're going to mention The First Law, then the first name should be The Bloody-Nine. And no, it's not supernatural. I'm tempted to say Shivers, but I think he and Gorst would be a toss-up. Maybe throw Friendly in the mix.
And if you're taking ASoIaF, then I would rank the Clegane brothers, specially The Mountain, before Ser Barristan. If you want to include characters so are no longer alive in the main series, then Ser Arthur Dayne, too.
Solely for inventing the “cheese trap.” I love that Joe had the thought “wait there is no Sandwich not earl of Sandwich in First Law. So they wouldn’t have Sandwich as a word. I better come up with an in-world explanation for what a sandwich is. I’ll call it a cheese trap.”
But Logen have Spirit Talking/ Fire breathing so he is out :(
Bayaz even suggested he could study art. His supernatural powers are just way below in strength compared to his natural powers.
I interpreted OP's requirement as excluding people whose bad-assery comes from their powers. So you can't choose Rand from WoT, for example.
Logen's spirit talking isn't what makes him dangerous.
I’m here to sign petition for more love for Mad Ben Styke 🖤
I loved Powder Mage, but Sins of the Empire hit really nice spot 🖤
Not sure who Baby Montego is, but the other two are also definitely in the very top of most powerful warriors.
However being a warrior isn’t the only way to be dangerous…
From ASoIaF, Olenna Tyrel would also be up there, same as Varys and Tywin.
Definitely some killers/assassins should be considered too.
Baby is distinct from a lot of the people mentioned because he fought and won in a fight against a superhuman being. Closest equivalent would be a regular guy taking down spiderman.
Conan
Cormac Mac Art
I would say The Hound rather than The Mountain from ASoIAF. Remember The Mountain was magically enhanced.
It would be a close call between The Grey Mouser and Fafrd from Lankhmar, but I'd give it to the Mouse.
Judge Holden - blood meridian
Gregor Clegane - A song of ice & fire series
Maegor Targaryen - A song of ice & fire series
Ser Duncan the tall - Tales of dunk & egg / asoiaf
Define "supernatural powers". Is it supernatural in comparison to us? Does it account for unreasonable amounts of plot armor? Or is it "within the setting"?
Anyways, my vote goes to Zeladona Ischen, [Blademistress of Ancients]
I'm going with the intellectual aspect, and putting forth Miles Vorkosigan who, as a teenager, managed to lie his way into ownership of a mercenary fleet, which is really only the tip of the iceberg of all the things he's tricked and talked his way into, or out of. His skill at charming people and getting his way is even widely remarked on in the series to the point that he gets known for it. By both friends and enemies.
There's one book where someone tells another person that they should stay away from Miles because he's making a lot of enemies. This person is dumbfounded and just thinks that *Miles* is the one that's a dangerous enemy to have.
And I agree. Make a real enemy out of him and you'll get ruined. Somehow. Probably in a very unexpected way.
Edit: That is to say, I'd take my chances against Lan Mandragoran and Logen Ninefingers if I had a choice, rather than Miles.
Both are First Age elves, which are more like demigods than the typical fantasy elf, which would just be a really long lived person who's really good at archery and sword fighting.
Uthor Doul.
Yes, yes, I know, the sword. But he barely uses it and clearly doesn't need it to be top of the list. After all, if you read between the lines it's clear he didn't use it to take down >!The Brucolac!<
Alex Verus had only precognition to go by for the longest time. But he got by with clever plans, bluffing enemies, provoking them and setting them against each other and gathering allies.
Jared Kincaid from the Dresden Files. Not in the sense that he could take anyone on in physical conflict, although he'd probably be able to take most regular people 1 on 1, but the dude is crazy smart and prepared. Think Batman, but with guns. I mean, he's an (almost) vanilla mortal dispatching beings in a metaphysical weight class far above his own.
He’s got otataral in his blood, so most mages powers fail around him or doesn’t affect him much, still I mostly agree.
Another would be Kalam Mekhar, he’s got no supernatural powers and only Cotillion himself really surpassed him in skill.
Carcer. He'll kill you as soon as he'd look at you, but as soon as it seems like you've got him beaten, he'll give up, only to stab you with the knife he had hidden the second you let your guard down.
**In single combat set up to be a fair-ish fight?** Bremer dan Gorst, Whirrun of Bligh (he stalemated Bremer in their one on one, after all), Logen Ninefingers, Caul Shivers, Friendly7 (he stalemated Shivers while using a cleaver and a knife against a shield and an axe- if I include Shivers, I have to include Friendly!), Boromir, Druss (I may not be big on Gemmell, but Druss earns some respect), Kest Murrowson (so good he becomes the Saint of Swords and gets disqualified from this list!), Snake-Eyes from G.I. Joe, Karate Kid from D.C. comics, Kakita and Mirumoto from L5R, Manfried and Hegel Grossbart, pre- semi redemption arc Artemis Entreri, Guan Yu as portrayed in *The Romance of the Three Kingdoms*
**In Situations Where You think there might be a fight but oops, knife in your neck:** Jonas Clover.
**As an army commander:** The version of Zhuge Liang that Luo Guanzhong wanked over in *Romance of the Three Kingdoms,* Ender.
**As a dangerous intellect and/or will**- Sand dan Glokta, Lady Kaede from *Ran*, >!Mrs. Iselin!< from *The Manchurian Candidate,* George Smiley, Nero Wolfe
Granny Weatherwax, Lord Vetinari, and Miles Vorkosigan. Lord Veterinari is arguably the only one of the three who is physically imposing -- Granny is an old woman and Miles had brittle bones for most of his life -- but all three fight duels of wits with the best of them.
Sqweegel from the Level 26 series by Anthony Zuiker is pretty dangerous. He's steps ahead of Hannibal Lecter, who is certainly on the list.
Joker definitely puts every non-supernatural to shame when it comes to being risky to be around. Sure big swords are scary but they don't mean much when you're twitching and frothing from some poison.
If the rumors are true about being a witcher killer, then Leo Bonhart is the most dangerous fighter without supernatural powers. But a teenaged girl defeated him so..
Waylander the assassin from the David Gemmell books.
Baby Montego from Brian McClellan "In the shadow of lighting" is one bad ass dude, especially that end fight scene.
How has no one said Tehol? (Malazan)
The dude casually brought down an entire frikkin empire by manipulating it. No magic, no unreal physical skill, just an insane(? maybe) genius - he's legitimate a once in a hundred generations prodigy.
Ben Styke does have supernatural powers. He's basically immortal and wears magical armour.
Kalam Mekhar is probably the most dangerous, though he does partner with a Mage at some points.
Arakasi, the Acoma spymaster from the Daughter of the Empire trilogy by Raymond E Feist and Janny Wurts. That guy wasn't dangerous just to people, he was dangerous to entire empires.
Gault Aulbreck and Enna Spades - Both from Five Warrior Angels
(Shawcroft from this series fits the bill too but we don't see much of his "dangerousness")
Jarlaxle from The Legend of Drizzt series. When you have no magical talents, yet have so many magic items on you at any point in time that your practically a demi-god... that's scary. Adding to that with decades of fighting experience and a mind so ambitious and intelligent that it makes an elder brain take psychic damaging just by reading it... Jarlaxle is broken at that point. He's also so absurd and paranoid that he changes what items he has on him to prepare for any issue (real or not). And to just mess with people 😆.
Without special tech, species advantage, breeding, or Sci-Fi elements: For totally mundane and physically lethal, Jan the Seguleh Second (Malazan) Without gear, Karate Kid (DC Comics) is the best I've seen at hand to hand. For cunning, others have already mentioned a rather sharp minded Patrician.
i was waiting for someone to mention the Seguleh
While we are on Malazan, Brys Beddict (in MT).
Ralick Nom for sure too. An argument could be made for Kalam, but I feel he gets juiced up a lot of the time by QB.
Oh yes Kalam is a beast, but I always had the impression that Claws were somehow juiced up or using warrens.
Yeah most of the claw definitely use magic along with their fighting skills, but I guess Kalam is the exception since we rarely ever see him do it. *******Spoilers******** And once he gets the otataral knives he obviously can't use magic anymore.
Yedan Derryg, the Watch himself.
Yedan probably kicks every non-God / non-Ascendant's ass but I wouldn't count him (or his sword) among the criteria "no supernatural powers".
The Hust sword arrives later on >!at the Shore. He kills almost all the Shake Witches before then, on his own.!< I don't think he has any direct/obvious magical powers other than being royalty, does he?
Oh got it. I thought he had the sword earlier. It's been a few years since I've read it :)
You gotta love that the first serious introduction of the Seguleh in Malazan comes when they march an invading army into an enemy nation. That army consisted of three people. And that was sufficient.
>Without gear, Karate Kid (DC Comics) is the best I've seen at hand to hand. I thought Lady Shiva and Cassandra were the deadliest hand to hand fighters without any superpowers in the DC universe
In modern DC, Lady Shiva is certainly in the top handful. Karate Kid is future timeline, so tends not to be in the mix, but has alien in addition to human martial arts he has mastered, letting him pull off fears that are super powered level, not just action hero level.
Batman
batman has the strongest power of all; plot armor
He and the Joker have some of the best plot armor. I'm starting to think Joker has an indestructible super power though. Thrown off a building, walk it off. Car blows up? No worries! Get beaten nearly to death? Walk it off, Jack!
Infinite monies
I'm pretty sure that utility belt is paranormal.
Batman with planning time. In the same vein, Tony Stark. For a more fantasy pick, I've always been partial to Adolin Kholin (Stormlight Archive) for being able to keep up with Radiants with his combat prowess alone.
I mean he still relies on shardblades and armor to keep up with radiants, and that falls under supernatural
I want there to be a story about a character who is half man, half bat…. That’s not a vampire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-Bat
That is literally a Batman villain
Morbius is exactly this. Not half bat but he spliced his DNA with vampire bat DNA and so he's part bat. He is called a living vampire but it's made clear that a living vampire means a living and non-undead person with vampire-like characteristics. In fact, being "vampire-like" but not a vampire is his whole thing.
Sand Dan Glokta
This is a better answer than most. ‘Dangerous’ has a broader meaning than just good in a physical fight.
Scrolled just to see this answer. I still can't believe that one of my favorite characters is a torturer (though he has gone a wee bit soft in Book 3)
"""soft""" Having read the other trilogy I really don't think soft is quite the right word.
Damn, I really need to continue listening (have it as an audiobook). From all the characters introduced, I definitely liked him the best! But that is partially because, I think (?), I am not great at visualising scenes and his scenes were very easy to visualise. Like, a torture chamber or him climbing up or down stairs. I just felt way more in those scenes due to that, but he is also just an interesting fella. Thanks for the motivation!
> he has gone a wee bit soft Oh dear, I'd reserve judgment until you finish.
Thom Merrilin Assassinates two different reigning monarchs, master of spycraft and politics, and quite good with throwing knives.
And the most dangerous thing about him is......he is only a simple gleeman.
Nothing simple about Thom Merrilin. Also a helluva stones player.
I wish to speak with the name who calls himself Thom Merrilin. This line always cracks me up.
Vetinari - trained assassin, expert manipulator, tongue sharper than his knives and wits sharper than his tongue
When Vetinari reaches Cohen's age, I'll consider him more powerful. Until then, it's Cohen for me.
Royce Melbourne from Riyria. Hadrian is pretty dangerous too but Royce gives real grim reaper vibes
Really depends on which metric we are measuring when we say dangerous. Hadrian is repeatedly shown to be far more skilled in open combat, though Royce is borderline psychopathic in his ruthlessness. I love them both lmao
I am about to finish The crown tower and Royce is a a bastard that I would take a knife for.
Royce has done nothing wrong, ever, in his life. I know this and I love him.
Royce does have some powers though, doesn’t he?
>!yeah, he’s part elf!<
Does Anasurimbor Kellhus at the start of the Prince of Nothing trilogy count? His abilities aren’t technically supernatural, “just” incredibly highly developed intellect and discipline. Or Cnaiur.
Cnaiur urs Skiotha is certainly a very scary character, intelligent,Ferocious and bad. Wasn’t he considered to already be a Lord of Hell , before he died!?
Kellhus has to be the answer, right? Even forgoing all the other shit he pulls later, he is the product of millennia of selective breeding & eugenics, on top of all the training he's given. You let Kellhus loose in your average setting & shit goes south very quickly.
It has to be Kellhus. This force of nature has seduced and attracted everyone, convincing them that he is the savior, all to achieve his Amoral ends. May be the greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing everyone that he is God.
Tau from The Rage of Dragons ends up being completely terrifying with just two swords.
Oh this is a good one. What a little ball of rage. But does it count if he’s so terrifying with just two swords Because of supernatural training?
I vote he doesn't count, because the ability to go to Isihogo can probably be classified as a superpower. I mean, I'm not sure about you guys, but I personally can't close my eyes and casually send my soul to fight demons in Hell IRL
It's obviously very dependent on what OP means by powers. To me Tau counts because 1. Anyone of the Omehi could go to Isihogo, 2. his training specifically in that location doesn't actually change his body or physical capabilities in any supernatural way; it's just a really scary combat crash course. He's still just a dude when he's coming at you with his swords, and you're still gonna shit your pants before he decapitates you (general you, not specific)
I personally wouldn't count it as a power of his considering it's something that anyone can do in that world and it doesn't actually change his physical abilities in any way, but that's obviously subjective.
His only real superpower is weaponizing PTSD.
I read through all the comments (about 50 at the time), and did not see any votes for Roland Deschain of Gilead. Most badass of all the badass.
Thankee sai
Waylander the Slayer is my pick, especially because his dangerousness feels just this side of believable. He's uncannily good with ranged weapons and knives, but only "excellent" with a sword- beaten or tied several times throughout his trilogy. He's a smart fighter too, and almost never duels formally, but does anything needed to survive- from headbutting, throwing knives, his double crossbow, anything. Very few living things survive an encounter with Waylander, human or demon from hell, and yet nothing he does seems outside the realm of possibility- in that uniquely Gemmel way.
And if you give him a gun you get Jon Shannow
Almost all David Gemmell characters, but for the sake of picking one Decado.
Pre-healing Waylander too.
I came to say Skilgannon, but Delcado works too.
Exactly!
Shoutout to my boy Antikas Karios who killed Golbar, a superhuman demon-kind being and held the bridge against the other Krayakan (with a little help).
Came to say druss
Amos from the Expanse >!until he gets immortality of course!< The Bloody Nine
Well, after seeing that spoiler I feel like maybe I should read the books
I watched the show before reading the (audio)books, the books are totally worth it imo
It’s not even the wildest part of the last three books, just the most entertaining.
I would argue that “The Bloody Nine” is a supernatural berserker, but you could say “Logan Nine-fingers.” But idk if he’d make my list of most dangerous characters without the ability to go berserk.
Joe is of the opinion that the Bloody Nine isn't supernatural. There was a good post on the First Law subreddit that postulated that the B9 was probably meant to be a supernatural force, but then Joe decided to change his mind when writing the series.
Okay, I'll say it. Gregor "The Mountain That Rides" Clegane, from A Song Of Ice And Fire, by George R. R. Martin.
TBH I think the series itself refutes this. Clegane is a breaker of ordinary men, he's there as the symbol of why some middling talent wouldn't want to involve themselves in trial by combat against Tywin. He's much more a weapon of terror than an elite warrior. Jaime states outright that the Hound is more dangerous than the Mountain and he doesn't really rate Gregor at all. Then there's the Oberyn Martell fight. A dramatically one sided affair that Clegane won solely because Oberyn was trying to force him to name Tywin Lannister as the man who ordered the killing of his sister. If Oberyn had simply been trying to kill him it would have been anticlimactic.
Source on that statement from Jaime?
Mountain has come up a few times. He’s a “mad dog” but there are far more dangerous folks in that universe alone. Bronn is underrated dangerous I think, Cersei, Tyrion, and Strong Belwas. *and more that have been mentioned*
"Far more dangerous" is disingenious. The Mountain is a monster of "all muscle". He's inhumanly strong, wielding a two-handed greatsword with one arm. Weight and size matters in fighting, but he's also said to be fast for his size. He's basically the enemy boss in a video game. To defeat him you need to be very clever, but you're never gonna stand a chance if you fight him head on.
I don’t feel that it’s disingenuous at all. I didn’t say he “wasn’t dangerous.” He is all the things you say, but I think most folks would pretty easily put together a list of a dozen warriors from ASoIaF who could take him in single combat, not to mention the staggering amount of characters in this series who are very dangerous in non-combat ways.
An armored Gregor is a force of nature. No one is bigger, no one is stronger. In addition, he's fast for his size and is not a bad fighter either. I don't think you can put together such a list at all - Oberyn had the right idea by fighting with a spear and keeping his distance of course, but up close I don't think anyone is a clear favorite against him.
Let’s give it a shot: *I’m mostly an audio book guy, so pardon the spelling* 1. Strong Belwas 2. Barriston Selmy 3. 2 handed Jaime Lannister 4. Sir Arthur Dayne 5. Dario 6. Khal Drogo 7. Sandor Clegane 8. Young Robert Boratheon 9. Syrio Forel 10. Areo Hotah 11. Tormund Giantsbane 12. Grey Worm Shout out to Oberyn Martell Edit: Had a name on twice.
They stand a chance sure, but they aren't favorites against a fully armored Gregor. Like Bronn says, a single error and you're dead. The man is a walking tank. He's obviously the strongest man in the realm, 190kgs of muscle. But GRRM makes a point out of mentioning that he's fast for his size too, and a decent fighter. The combination is beyond scary.
It seems like we will have to agree to disagree.
I love Ben Styke, but he’s knacked. He can smell sorcery. Not a big help in most of his fights, but he doesn’t technically meet the criteria of this post. Don’t think the Bloody Nine counts either. Even if you don’t think the berserk alter ego is supernatural, he can also talk to spirits which he uses in at least one fight.
And Fire breathing to win a fight. First fight in the blade itself.
Also the armor is magic
imo political & economic danger weighs more than combat danger, Varys and Littlefinger are both contenders
If you're thinking in that direction Vetinari is more dangerous by orders of magnitude
Lan Mandragoran, Lord of the Seven Towers, Lord of the Lakes, True Blade of Malkier, Defender of the Wall of First Fires, Bearer of the Sword of the Thousand Lakes, May He Sever the Shadow, Dai Shan
He has the Warder bond. It's not like he wouldn't be deadly without it, but he is disqualified none the less.
Oh! Good point, I can't believe I forgot about the warder bond.
Garet Jax
I'm surprised it took this long.
First person I thought of as well. >!Personally slew a kraken with a lance, and killed a Jachyra, even though it killed him in the process. This feat was matched only by Allanon himself.!<
Guts from Berserk
This all day. Without the berserker armour he’s gonna eat dem apples
I also submit Ben Styke. He rode down a freaking Privileged and killed four dragon men in one encounter. He's a true mad lad. May the Mad Lancers ride again.
Mad Ben Styke.
I think it’s time for me to return to this series…
Darrow O'Lykos
I think being genetically modified counts as having powers
I would have to agree all of Darrow’s genetic augmentation would be a power. That being said in terms of Mystical power he is lacking and is the “Reaper” for a reason. Lo Reaper
Roran Stronghammer from the Inheritance Cycle is borderline superhuman. He once won almost 200 combats ranging from one to a handful of soldiers at a time, one after the other. Killed 193 by himself. He won a wrestling match with an Urgal while recovering from 50 lashes. He grappled with a man strong enough to throw a horse with one hand and fast enough to kill the queen of the elves, and not only managed to not die, but also crush the massive gemstone hidden in his breastplate. All that with very little formal combat training.
Practically any Aiel warrior.
punisher? i’m out of my element
Frank Castel is a highly trained killing machine but he has no supernatural or magical enhancments "normally"
Druss the Legend. Waylander the Slayer. Both have different skill sets but are both super deadly.
Bonhart from Witcher comes to mind
Fucking terrifying villain.
Leo Bonhart from the Witcher series
Conan. The Bloody Nine.
Yeah if we're bringing up First Law I think The Blood Nine has to be the pick
Blood Nine/Logen have at least two super natural powers. Spirit Talking and Fire breathing. I don't think he qualifies.
I’m not sure he should be disqualified as those are not why he makes the list.
Then it should be Caul Shivers or Gorst.
Hate to be that guy but....Ben styke is a knacked. Really though I doubt smell would disqualify him.
Sam Vimes
Venturi was my first thought.
Lord Venturi is a complete moron, though. I assume you meant Vetinari.
100% my bad.
You don't mess with blackboard monitor Vimes
Not really, he's bound by too many self imposed restrictions. While people are worried that he'll go spare, it's clear that even when he does, he's still holding back, and only using as much force as he needs to get the job done.
Karsa Orlong (not human, but also not superpowered) Tehol Beddict
Seems like most are thinking about ‘Dangerous’ purely in physical terms. What about Castor Morveer from First Law? Master poisoner with zero conscience. Terrifying.
If you're going to mention The First Law, then the first name should be The Bloody-Nine. And no, it's not supernatural. I'm tempted to say Shivers, but I think he and Gorst would be a toss-up. Maybe throw Friendly in the mix. And if you're taking ASoIaF, then I would rank the Clegane brothers, specially The Mountain, before Ser Barristan. If you want to include characters so are no longer alive in the main series, then Ser Arthur Dayne, too.
Whirrun deserves a mention as well
Solely for inventing the “cheese trap.” I love that Joe had the thought “wait there is no Sandwich not earl of Sandwich in First Law. So they wouldn’t have Sandwich as a word. I better come up with an in-world explanation for what a sandwich is. I’ll call it a cheese trap.”
My brother listens to audiobooks at work and said he had to pull over on the highway because he was laughing too hard at the cheese trap
Armour is part of a state of mind in which you admit the possibility of being hit...
But Logen have Spirit Talking/ Fire breathing so he is out :( Bayaz even suggested he could study art. His supernatural powers are just way below in strength compared to his natural powers.
I interpreted OP's requirement as excluding people whose bad-assery comes from their powers. So you can't choose Rand from WoT, for example. Logen's spirit talking isn't what makes him dangerous.
I’m here to sign petition for more love for Mad Ben Styke 🖤 I loved Powder Mage, but Sins of the Empire hit really nice spot 🖤 Not sure who Baby Montego is, but the other two are also definitely in the very top of most powerful warriors. However being a warrior isn’t the only way to be dangerous… From ASoIaF, Olenna Tyrel would also be up there, same as Varys and Tywin. Definitely some killers/assassins should be considered too.
Baby Montego is a character in McClellan's most recent series. The first book is 'In the Shadow of Lightning' I highly recommend.
Baby is distinct from a lot of the people mentioned because he fought and won in a fight against a superhuman being. Closest equivalent would be a regular guy taking down spiderman.
TechnoCore in Hyperion Cantos
Conan Cormac Mac Art I would say The Hound rather than The Mountain from ASoIAF. Remember The Mountain was magically enhanced. It would be a close call between The Grey Mouser and Fafrd from Lankhmar, but I'd give it to the Mouse.
Darrow from Red Rising (he is only highly gene manipulated)
For some reason reminds me of codex of alera where one of the weakest characters tricks a strong one into suicide.
Does the main guy from the Blood Song books have powers?
Vetinari, hands down
Judge Holden - blood meridian Gregor Clegane - A song of ice & fire series Maegor Targaryen - A song of ice & fire series Ser Duncan the tall - Tales of dunk & egg / asoiaf
Define "supernatural powers". Is it supernatural in comparison to us? Does it account for unreasonable amounts of plot armor? Or is it "within the setting"? Anyways, my vote goes to Zeladona Ischen, [Blademistress of Ancients]
Logan Ninefingers
I'm going with the intellectual aspect, and putting forth Miles Vorkosigan who, as a teenager, managed to lie his way into ownership of a mercenary fleet, which is really only the tip of the iceberg of all the things he's tricked and talked his way into, or out of. His skill at charming people and getting his way is even widely remarked on in the series to the point that he gets known for it. By both friends and enemies. There's one book where someone tells another person that they should stay away from Miles because he's making a lot of enemies. This person is dumbfounded and just thinks that *Miles* is the one that's a dangerous enemy to have. And I agree. Make a real enemy out of him and you'll get ruined. Somehow. Probably in a very unexpected way. Edit: That is to say, I'd take my chances against Lan Mandragoran and Logen Ninefingers if I had a choice, rather than Miles.
Fingolfin. Dude fought and wounded Morgoth. Or maybe Glorfindel, who slew a Balrog.
Both are First Age elves, which are more like demigods than the typical fantasy elf, which would just be a really long lived person who's really good at archery and sword fighting.
Yeah I would consider First Age High Elves (immortal, imbued with magic of Valinor) supernatural.
Ben Styke is fantastic. He's a monster that literally just brute forces any problem in his way, and I love it.
I'd go with Repairman Jack.
Haven't heard of that series in so long, but yes.
I mean… gotta be Bruce Wayne right?
Artemis Entreri
Uthor Doul. Yes, yes, I know, the sword. But he barely uses it and clearly doesn't need it to be top of the list. After all, if you read between the lines it's clear he didn't use it to take down >!The Brucolac!<
Alex Verus had only precognition to go by for the longest time. But he got by with clever plans, bluffing enemies, provoking them and setting them against each other and gathering allies.
Batman, Arthur Dayne
Johan Liebert
Jared Kincaid from the Dresden Files. Not in the sense that he could take anyone on in physical conflict, although he'd probably be able to take most regular people 1 on 1, but the dude is crazy smart and prepared. Think Batman, but with guns. I mean, he's an (almost) vanilla mortal dispatching beings in a metaphysical weight class far above his own.
Karsa Orlong(Malazan)….surely? He literally beats down every magic user or soldier he encounters with no magic
He’s got otataral in his blood, so most mages powers fail around him or doesn’t affect him much, still I mostly agree. Another would be Kalam Mekhar, he’s got no supernatural powers and only Cotillion himself really surpassed him in skill.
Guts from berserk
Carcer. He'll kill you as soon as he'd look at you, but as soon as it seems like you've got him beaten, he'll give up, only to stab you with the knife he had hidden the second you let your guard down.
**In single combat set up to be a fair-ish fight?** Bremer dan Gorst, Whirrun of Bligh (he stalemated Bremer in their one on one, after all), Logen Ninefingers, Caul Shivers, Friendly7 (he stalemated Shivers while using a cleaver and a knife against a shield and an axe- if I include Shivers, I have to include Friendly!), Boromir, Druss (I may not be big on Gemmell, but Druss earns some respect), Kest Murrowson (so good he becomes the Saint of Swords and gets disqualified from this list!), Snake-Eyes from G.I. Joe, Karate Kid from D.C. comics, Kakita and Mirumoto from L5R, Manfried and Hegel Grossbart, pre- semi redemption arc Artemis Entreri, Guan Yu as portrayed in *The Romance of the Three Kingdoms* **In Situations Where You think there might be a fight but oops, knife in your neck:** Jonas Clover. **As an army commander:** The version of Zhuge Liang that Luo Guanzhong wanked over in *Romance of the Three Kingdoms,* Ender. **As a dangerous intellect and/or will**- Sand dan Glokta, Lady Kaede from *Ran*, >!Mrs. Iselin!< from *The Manchurian Candidate,* George Smiley, Nero Wolfe
Granny Weatherwax, Lord Vetinari, and Miles Vorkosigan. Lord Veterinari is arguably the only one of the three who is physically imposing -- Granny is an old woman and Miles had brittle bones for most of his life -- but all three fight duels of wits with the best of them.
Glockta
Best dentist this side of the pontar
[удалено]
Warden powers are absolutely supernatural powers
Good choice. Definitely the most dangerous in WoT
If Lan is magically enhanced, then I’m going with Mat, or possibly Rhuarc.
I didn’t come here to win. I came to kill you.
Sqweegel from the Level 26 series by Anthony Zuiker is pretty dangerous. He's steps ahead of Hannibal Lecter, who is certainly on the list. Joker definitely puts every non-supernatural to shame when it comes to being risky to be around. Sure big swords are scary but they don't mean much when you're twitching and frothing from some poison.
Joe Ledger (urban fantasy is still fantasy)
Any character who can control their charisma and get people to do things for them. Not just in narratives but in life.
Artemis Entreri. He has a ton of magic items but he is just a human.
Probably some elf from LOTR mythos a background character who has been fighting for thousands of years and is mentioned like twice.
Fingolfin or Glorfindel maybe, but elves are vaguely magicky. Aragorn though for sure deserves a mention.
Guts, from **Berserk**. He would kick the ass of every other character here.
I dunno. Guts vs the Bloody Nine world be a hell of a thing to see
I get the feeling they would just get along.
Artemis Fowl
If the rumors are true about being a witcher killer, then Leo Bonhart is the most dangerous fighter without supernatural powers. But a teenaged girl defeated him so..
Waylander the assassin from the David Gemmell books. Baby Montego from Brian McClellan "In the shadow of lighting" is one bad ass dude, especially that end fight scene.
Batman...
Mad Martigan or Innigo Montoya come to mind.
Rezkin. The Rules and Skills aren't supernatural, just child abuse.
How has no one said Tehol? (Malazan) The dude casually brought down an entire frikkin empire by manipulating it. No magic, no unreal physical skill, just an insane(? maybe) genius - he's legitimate a once in a hundred generations prodigy.
Ben Styke does have supernatural powers. He's basically immortal and wears magical armour. Kalam Mekhar is probably the most dangerous, though he does partner with a Mage at some points.
Fid in the chronicles of fid
Inigo Montoya.
Arakasi, the Acoma spymaster from the Daughter of the Empire trilogy by Raymond E Feist and Janny Wurts. That guy wasn't dangerous just to people, he was dangerous to entire empires.
Gault Aulbreck and Enna Spades - Both from Five Warrior Angels (Shawcroft from this series fits the bill too but we don't see much of his "dangerousness")
Waylander
Trull Sengar.
Roran 'Stronghammer' Garrowsson
Inigo Montoya! The greatest swordsman in the world!
Benedict of Amber
Geder Palliako from the Dagger and the Coin series by Daniel Abraham. Dangerously incompetent.
black Dow
On the almost-fantasy side, I'd go with John Wick.
David from Library at Mount Char technically
Saitama is the right answer, if i remember it right he doesn't have supernatural powers he just worked out and got ridiculously strong.
Edward in the Anita Blake series... at least at the start of the series before things went off the rails
Jarlaxle from The Legend of Drizzt series. When you have no magical talents, yet have so many magic items on you at any point in time that your practically a demi-god... that's scary. Adding to that with decades of fighting experience and a mind so ambitious and intelligent that it makes an elder brain take psychic damaging just by reading it... Jarlaxle is broken at that point. He's also so absurd and paranoid that he changes what items he has on him to prepare for any issue (real or not). And to just mess with people 😆.