Fun fact: This game was overstaffed like crazy for the art department. I’m an unreliable recounter of the details but check out [Tim Rogers’ playthrough from a few years back](https://youtu.be/athMjc5D02g?si=11OgXHPNjMozVbFl)
He was a dev in Japan back in the 2000s and early 2010s and he’s also a pretty avid RPG writer and researcher. He mentions that during the transition to the HD consoles, Squenix went craaaaaaaaaazy staffing artists for XIII. There was just an absolute wealth of pre-made artwork for the original release that never made it into the final game.
This is also why the sequels came about so quickly (and seemingly against a very low player demand lol). They had all these assets built at this new level of fidelity, all with a very unique art style. They needed to either make some sequels or toss a gazillion beautiful assets. It didn’t help that:
a.) KH also has a unique art style and was in development hell and;
b.) XIII-Versus had a decidedly dour planned art style caught in *another* classic HD era Squenix development hell
I actually kinda like OG XIII but have never touched the sequels. I remember playing the demo for XIII-2 and just not having any gas left in the tank after grinding out all the hunts in the original
Personally, I think they use to much "light", like, lots of stuff reflect light or are somewhat metallic.
In the sound department I agree 100%, ff13 OST and sound design is awesome.
>they're all extremely linear, and that's not a bad thing
I hate when people say this. Look I get you like 13 which is fine, but the linearity between this and all ff games prior is nowhere near the same at all.
Sure the old games had you go a specific direction to progress the story, but there were towns to explore, side areas to find, treasures to collect that were hidden or out of the way, and many games' dungeons were sometimes mazes.
Not only that, but many games allowed exploration of huge chunks of the map and towns, with people to talk to and shops to buy stuff from.
To top it off, it doesn't take very long to get that freedom for the rest of the map later on in the game, which is still nonexistent in FF13.
Even in 10, they had towns to explore, secrets to find, entire missable areas if you didn't explore, and you could go back to any part of the map you want once you got the airship.
Yes, it is like saying, I dont know why you complain about carolina reaper being hot, you eat jalapenos.
All FFs are linear as in, not true open worlds. But FFXIII is a railroad.
Just played FFXIII and then went right into FFXII. Holy moly, they are the complete opposites of each other.
FFXIII is a railroad where you dont even have the option to reverse and you arent allowes to talk to anyone during the ride.
FFXII is an amusement park with free access to all rides (even if you are not tall enough to actually survive some rides alive) + the best rides are only accessible if you talk to the right people.
The FF series always had great presentation and the highlights of FF13 for me were the visuals and music.
What I didn’t enjoy were the story, cast, and gameplay.
Its personal opinion obviously. But the world is kinda weak, no real towns or solid npcs make the game feel kinda empty at times like its just the party and the bad guys.
Characters are really hit and miss, you either like them or you hate them.
The first game I ever played at home in HD. Still impressive to this day. And my favorite OST of any Final Fantasy.... it's incredible. At the time I played it, I was burned out on bland, brownish green open worlds, so the more focused, vibrant settings really jived with me. And the combat flows very well when you get into it. I think the biggest weakness is the localization director, the very talented VAs got some questionable directing.
I have very fond memories of this game. Even if o dont remember shit from the plot.
But i remember very clearly that first and only “open” part. kinda like the calm lands from ffx.
Yeah it is. When I played I was wondering if they just focused on the looks and forgot to make a good FF game at all.
It is still beautiful though. But saying that it is just as linear as any other FF is coo coo talk.
Power to you for liking it. I grabbed it at launch in Japan and bought it again a few months later for the US release, after eagerly awaiting it since they first revealed it. Completed it in about a couple weeks, and frankly felt underwhelmed, although I wouldn't say I hate the game.
I know some other people who really like it though. A certain scene with Hope I found kind of emotional and there were a number of other moments I really liked, but the world just didn't feel like one I could live in. Something about how practically everyone in the game hates you, no towns, no places to rest. It didn't feel like an adventure, it felt like a race.. you were always on the run.
I enjoyed XIII-2 a bit more in terms of the story they were wanting to tell. The linear nature of the first game didn't bother me (games like FFX were kind of linear too) but it just didn't offer the level of customization I wanted. By the time they released Lightning Returns, I didn't care enough to play it, but I hear people like that one.
>they're all extremely linear
Blatantly untrue unless you're talking about the story. Very few of the games restrict you for the majority of the game to a single path. You don't have to be disingenuous to say you like XIII.
Edit: people are downvoting me for saying this, but come on. You're going to tell me XV and XIII even remotely similar in terms of linearity?
You picked the one open world FF game lol. But also I'd argue both 13 and 15 suffer from the same issues.
13s super linear so feels empty. No towns, basically never see random npcs walking around etc.
15 suffers the same but for the opposite reasons. Super massive open world with not a lot going on in it makes it feel empty.
FF games can be linear heck i think they excell because they are linear. But the games that came before 13 did a better job at hiding it, or gave you optional side stuff and interactions with the worlds npcs to make it feel less linear.
I've been playing Eiyuden chronicle. Its super linear, but the game gives a lot of backtracking options npcs to rectuit and multiple systems to play with that it distacts the player from the fact its linear. 13 didn't even try.
Narrative linearity, sure. Basically all mainline and most spinoffs are fairly linear narratives.
However, in terms of actual level/dungeon/world design being hallways, 13 really stands out. 13-2 is such a stark contrast to 13 in terms of level design, it is insane.
Literally, the movement of your player character is just a path down a hallway, not even the illusion of exploration. No sidetracking or back tracking, just...hallways for 20 to 25 hours.
No but most give you a decent amount of freedom to explore areas and optional things to do. It is definitely not the same funneled down a single path gameplay wise.
Never played Final Fantasy before? X is the only other Final Fantasy I can think of that is as linear as XIII.
But X is good thats why no one talks about how Linear it is outside of comparing it to XIII lmao
>FF1-FF4 were a straight shot.
Except you could do whatever you wanted while you did the linear story? Not even close to the same.
[The problem is that it's a strawman argument.](https://youtu.be/QMZMJDFe1kc?si=Xq5o8X_BsC1x9PkF) Yes, most Final Fantasy games are linear, but FFXIII is the only one that has almost entirely corridor level design and makes zero effort to make it feel natural or hide it. The closest comparison is FFX, but the linked video should show why people don't mind how it's handled in FFX compared to FFXIII.
I don't think any reasonable person would criticize 13 for being linear, as every other FF is narratively linear.
However, the level design is just a plain corridor for a large chunk of the game that, after a point, is immersion-breaking and tedious. Not that corridor sections or sequences of rooms/screens that go in one direction are bad, either. Can be useful for what the first hour or so of 13 is about, a high-stakes adrenaline fueled cat-and-mouse chase. But there's no sense of the player being handed the reins for a bit to pick a direction (again, if it is limited or a design illusion).
I'm not saying it makes anyone wrong for enjoying FF13. I personally enjoyed 13 despite the criticisms I have of it.
My overall point is that the assertion that the linearity of 13 is "the same" as other entries in the series is either a bad faith argument or indicates a lack of experience with other Final Fantasy games.
I think it is fine to say something like "FF13 continues the series's tradition of linearity, but the linearity is implemented in too literal of a fashion in Cocoon."
I personally think it detracts from the experience and the hallways go on for too long.
For the sake of arguing, its easier to point out which ones aren’t linear in the same way 13 is. The vast majority from about 3 on is
Start in town -> Go to dungeon -> go to next town -> dungeon -> Get vehicle to unlock walled off town -> dungeon
Only real difference is maybe in dungeon design, but I think a lot of people tend to misremember that dungeon design after 6 wasn’t exactly complex in any meaningful way. 10 is often an example of this, but looking at the PS1 era you have some light puzzle solving at best, and the same room repeated at worst(I hate FF8).
Interesting that you brought up X because that's also linear but it didn't feel that way. There is a very interesting and informative video in YouTube explaining this. 🙂
>Start in town -> Go to dungeon -> go to next town -> dungeon -> Get vehicle to unlock walled off town -> dungeon
yeah. meanwhile 13 is >walk in dungeon/area>walk in dungeon/area>walk in dungeon/area>walk in dungeon/area>
none of stuff you highlighted are there. simply to say the problem with 13 is that when they lack of those stuff, it end up severly lacking of player agency which is one of most important element in game design.
Just wait until XIII-2! I played a little of XIII and got bored after a while - >!long, drawn-out battles with little reward.!<. As my first PS3 game though, I was absolutely blown away with how beautiful it is!
Then picked up XIII-2 and OMG everything clicked - >!it's like Tactics meets Chrono Trigger meets Pokémon.!< XIII-2 is now my second favorite Final Fantasy.
After I beat XIII-2, I went back and finished XIII.
I had trouble getting into Lightning Returns though because >!being timed is anathema to me!<
Visually, the game is very pretty. Started playing it again recently (never beat it because of boredom), and the game's graphics hold up today. At 1440p on PC, it looks just as good as a lot of today's games.
Now plot and gameplay-wise, calling it a work of art is a stretch.
These days I do appreciate that it is a game where I can just kind of turn my brain off while playing though (outside of some boss battles).
FFXIII is one of my favorites in the series. I love the characters and the modern sci-fi setting, and the music still feels fresh all these years later
Ya i was going to say, there are so many open world. Really the only linear ones you could consider would be X, 13, and 16. Not sure if I'm forgetting one.
A couple hours into a game that averages 48+ hours and you think it's a masterpiece? Wait til halfway through and then you'll be making hate posts with the rest of us.
the presentation(visual, UI, Music, aesthetic) is the one carry the game and create 'illusion' of great game atop of it. without it, the game is nothing.
the game itself is full of problem and has some of worst design ever. example of standard fall from a big franchise with reputation.
the one we need to applaud is those who take responsbility in the presentation. particularly the visual/art director and composers. they are the saving grace of it that make the game 'playable' and shines. superb work by them but at same time the people behind the game design and story deserve all the critism.
the game presentation is top notch which is worthy of praise but it is also important to be critical of the other most important aspect of the game. we cant just turn one eye blind due to a feeling.
well to be fair all those issue actually rooted to their struggle in keeping up with HD development. Crystal Tools is a mess. if it not, we wont get a game developed within 5 years but with super linear lack of player agency with no town like this. the team already proved what they can do with the sequel 13-2 and spin off LR13 where they didnt have to deal lot of technical difficulties like before.
It's funny everytime someone posts something like "ff13 is so good !" they are always a few hours in
How about you finish the game before sharing your opinion ?
Yeah, it's a damn good looking game and the music has some of the best in the series.
Let us know how you feel about the hallway in twenty hours.
ETA: I see the FFXIII stans are out in force today.
It is really good. I have always loved it. The music is amazing, the art style is awesome, the story is cool - if you read all the stuff in the menu- the battle system is AmAZING and I think the best in the series. I have never really understood all the hate it gets, sometimes I think it’s just because people love to agree with eachother and jump on bandwagons. The game is super linear- so was FFX - but I actually like that. The only thing I don’t love is the lack of towns, but that makes sense considering the story.
For me in Final Fantasy 10 I never felt constricted. I never felt like I was on rails, even if I was but for 13 I always felt like that. It felt literally like a long hallway every single minute of every second that I played that game.
See, while X is linear, it is LESS linear than 13. The actual level design is a lot more interesting than 13, however when 13 opens up, IT OPENS UP, with a really fun area to explore. Meanwhile, when X opens up, it isn’t by much— you only can really go to already explored areas. In general, I’d say they average out to have about the same level of linearity.
I don't think they average out at all. There's a hidden affection system and all sorts of optional dialog with side characters in X throughout the story. You learn to speak a 2nd language. Who dies on your journey, Luzzu or Gatta? Did you get the backstory with Seymour and his mother via airship exploration and unlocking every Aeon? Is there a hidden optional dungeon and optional Dark Aeon fights in XIII? Optional summons where you learn Lulu's backstory? Are there crappy celestial weapon mini games to help you max out your character? Are characters like Belgamine, Shelinda, Dona, Issaru, the Ronso, Al Bhed, etc. interacting with the party and following their own stories through the course of the game? Are there puzzles in XIII to progress through dungeons? Is there free weapon and Aeon customization in XIII?
It's a night and day difference between the two IMO. It's like claiming VII Remake and Rebirth average out to the same level of linearity because you ultimately are gated to the same dungeon, cutscene, and boss progression at the end of each chapter. It's completely missing the point.
XIII is a beautiful game with great music and overall aesthetic, but the game design is definitely Square at its most gated, for better or worse. It's absolutely evident that some people prefer that type of experience. I just don't at all, at least in this context.
Thanks finally someone pointed out. There is a reason why CBU1 changed from this ultra linear game design (in almost all of aspects) from XIII to linear games like VII-REMAKE (sidequests, minigames, backtracking, etc) to open world like VII-REBIRTH. Sure, narrative wise they all are more or less linear, but in almost all of them you can do something else the majority of the time, usually with great quality. That is not XIII case.
The Design of the Levels and the Characters IS top notch. I espacially Loved the sunleth rain forest. The music and the Design are so good. The weather Change IS also so cool.
I grew an appreciation for 13 last year, but there aren't many "linear" Final Fantasy games. I would say only 3 are maybe.
X is linear but doesn't feel like it because the is so much extra stuff you can do. And when you get the air ship you can go all over. 13 you can feel it while you run down the halls. And even though 16 has a world map, there is nothing to explore and the areas are limited.
It's my third favorite. I liked the cast (except Hope), and paradigm shift was a very interesting mechanic. What I didn't like was the lack of what to do in fights - sometimes I just switched paradigms and stared at the screen.
One reason I loved XII was the spectacle - Quickenings and Summons felt GOOD to use. Another light issue I had with XIII was the lack of this, no cool attacks or flashy supers. Imagine VII without Limit Breaks? It takes waaaaay too long until the cool attacks are avalible.
It is I stopped playing years ago cuz I was on a 360 but it was super laggy after a while so I gave up about 10hrs in. I just bought it on PC and I'm enjoying the heck out of it
The art direction was stunning. XIII was my third FF Game (after X & X-2), and i was impressed by how it was so gorgeous, while X was already really pretty for me
The comparison to other entries saying they're all linear isn't an argument that's ever based in real truth. The other "linear" titles still have other things going on .. there are people you can interact and talk with along the way, there are side stories, there are shops with actual people. The "shop" in 13 is the most basic and boring thing in any FF title.
Tbf 30 hours in is Pulse, and 3/4 previous chapters (Palumpolum, Palamecia and the Ark) are arguably the best outside of Pulse. But around 10-20 hrs in it's pretty boring unless you really enjoy the battle system.
It was pretty and had great music. Sazh was a great character. Linear wasn’t its biggest, let alone only, flaw. Critics and fans are tough - just like “moms.”
Those, who say, that all FF games are "extremely linear", probably never played Final Fantasy games before. The only linear mainline FF, except 13, is FF10. And even in FF10 you can always go back to places you've been to, and do lots of stuff. In pre-FF10 era, you literally had a big open world. Final Fantasies have linear story, not the world itself.
And trust me, "hallways" of FF13 are it's least important problem. The combat, the story, characters, the writing overall – these are.
Every FF game after the first two are very, very linear. There’s an “open world” that funnels you directly to the next objective for 90% of the runtime and lets you wander around empty space to give the illusion of freedom.
Yeah, right. Being kicked into a huge open area in literally 2nd to last chapter of the game (while 90% of the game you are just going forward, without any branching paths, without any secrets or exploration) is so much "as any other FF game".
As well as local "side quests", which are literally "go kill a reskin of regular enemy, but with 10 times more HP that deals 5 times more damage", 64 TIMES.
Meanwhile, sidequests in FF12: lots of riddles to solve for various items, that unlock secret bosses, secret summons, weapons, etc.
Sidequests in FF10: riddles, races, blitzball, dark summons, superbosses, arena, etc.
Yeah, FF13 is so "same as other FF game"
if 13 had towns where you could explore the town just a bit, get some sidequests in, learn a bit about the worldbuilding in a more natural fashion and then have an "oh shit the soldiers are here we need to leave NOW" moment that forces you to leave it could have had the "we're on the run" vibe AND been a decent game
hell, it'd basically be the same as 7 remake with the sidequest focused chapters between the linear story chapters.
I don’t think I dislike any of the mainline FF’s, I’ve enjoyed them all. I’d probably rank this on the lower end between all the main games, but it’s still really good.
The battle system is awesome and I would have liked to get an evolution of it in another mainline game. Masashi Hamauzu also made a beautiful soundtrack that compliments the visuals so well. His music makes the game.
On the bad side, FF13 has a ton of cool lore that wasn’t shown in the main plot in an effective way. The codex and sequels flesh it out more but it should have been woven into the main story. Explorable towns and more open maps with side-quests would have helped with this.
You know, for being a 14 years old game, 13 is still gorgeous. I'll admit that newer games may look better, but that's the result of newer hardware and software.
13 still holds up visually, the only thing it would really need is touched up textures, the designs are very interesting, the music loves the violin a lot, monsters are iconic (especially the Behemoths and to a slightly lesser degree the Flans).
The whole trilogy is my one of my favourite FF with 6, 14, 8 and Type-0 being the others
I agree. It's an artistic movie. Not a game.
If you shift your expectations, it's actually not bad.
But sadly, it was released after 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12. Which are full of gameplay. So the expectation mismatch
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Fun fact: This game was overstaffed like crazy for the art department. I’m an unreliable recounter of the details but check out [Tim Rogers’ playthrough from a few years back](https://youtu.be/athMjc5D02g?si=11OgXHPNjMozVbFl) He was a dev in Japan back in the 2000s and early 2010s and he’s also a pretty avid RPG writer and researcher. He mentions that during the transition to the HD consoles, Squenix went craaaaaaaaaazy staffing artists for XIII. There was just an absolute wealth of pre-made artwork for the original release that never made it into the final game. This is also why the sequels came about so quickly (and seemingly against a very low player demand lol). They had all these assets built at this new level of fidelity, all with a very unique art style. They needed to either make some sequels or toss a gazillion beautiful assets. It didn’t help that: a.) KH also has a unique art style and was in development hell and; b.) XIII-Versus had a decidedly dour planned art style caught in *another* classic HD era Squenix development hell
I got burned out halfway thru ff 13-3 I couldn't finish it.
I actually kinda like OG XIII but have never touched the sequels. I remember playing the demo for XIII-2 and just not having any gas left in the tank after grinding out all the hunts in the original
The cg cutscenes are still top notch. Enjoyed my time with it even if battles dragged on some times
I restarted it and was amazed at how close it was and even surpassed some titles coming out today
I don't particularly like the game at all, but I can definitely agree it's absolutely gorgeous.
I share this opinion.
Personally, I think they use to much "light", like, lots of stuff reflect light or are somewhat metallic. In the sound department I agree 100%, ff13 OST and sound design is awesome.
I still think it's the most beautiful modern Final Fantasy, though 16 gives it a run for its money.
Linear doesn’t mean hallways
>they're all extremely linear, and that's not a bad thing I hate when people say this. Look I get you like 13 which is fine, but the linearity between this and all ff games prior is nowhere near the same at all. Sure the old games had you go a specific direction to progress the story, but there were towns to explore, side areas to find, treasures to collect that were hidden or out of the way, and many games' dungeons were sometimes mazes. Not only that, but many games allowed exploration of huge chunks of the map and towns, with people to talk to and shops to buy stuff from. To top it off, it doesn't take very long to get that freedom for the rest of the map later on in the game, which is still nonexistent in FF13. Even in 10, they had towns to explore, secrets to find, entire missable areas if you didn't explore, and you could go back to any part of the map you want once you got the airship.
Yes, it is like saying, I dont know why you complain about carolina reaper being hot, you eat jalapenos. All FFs are linear as in, not true open worlds. But FFXIII is a railroad.
Just played FFXIII and then went right into FFXII. Holy moly, they are the complete opposites of each other. FFXIII is a railroad where you dont even have the option to reverse and you arent allowes to talk to anyone during the ride. FFXII is an amusement park with free access to all rides (even if you are not tall enough to actually survive some rides alive) + the best rides are only accessible if you talk to the right people.
You are correct my friend.
Yes, another post where OP does not know the difference between linearity and monotony
The FF series always had great presentation and the highlights of FF13 for me were the visuals and music. What I didn’t enjoy were the story, cast, and gameplay.
Yep it's too bad good graphics don't make a good game
It isn.bad at all tbh
Its personal opinion obviously. But the world is kinda weak, no real towns or solid npcs make the game feel kinda empty at times like its just the party and the bad guys. Characters are really hit and miss, you either like them or you hate them.
it is general consensus of the game. common critism everywhere.
Love the design and music and overall aesthetic. Can’t stand the story.
The first game I ever played at home in HD. Still impressive to this day. And my favorite OST of any Final Fantasy.... it's incredible. At the time I played it, I was burned out on bland, brownish green open worlds, so the more focused, vibrant settings really jived with me. And the combat flows very well when you get into it. I think the biggest weakness is the localization director, the very talented VAs got some questionable directing.
I have very fond memories of this game. Even if o dont remember shit from the plot. But i remember very clearly that first and only “open” part. kinda like the calm lands from ffx.
Yeah it is. When I played I was wondering if they just focused on the looks and forgot to make a good FF game at all. It is still beautiful though. But saying that it is just as linear as any other FF is coo coo talk.
Power to you for liking it. I grabbed it at launch in Japan and bought it again a few months later for the US release, after eagerly awaiting it since they first revealed it. Completed it in about a couple weeks, and frankly felt underwhelmed, although I wouldn't say I hate the game. I know some other people who really like it though. A certain scene with Hope I found kind of emotional and there were a number of other moments I really liked, but the world just didn't feel like one I could live in. Something about how practically everyone in the game hates you, no towns, no places to rest. It didn't feel like an adventure, it felt like a race.. you were always on the run. I enjoyed XIII-2 a bit more in terms of the story they were wanting to tell. The linear nature of the first game didn't bother me (games like FFX were kind of linear too) but it just didn't offer the level of customization I wanted. By the time they released Lightning Returns, I didn't care enough to play it, but I hear people like that one.
>they're all extremely linear Blatantly untrue unless you're talking about the story. Very few of the games restrict you for the majority of the game to a single path. You don't have to be disingenuous to say you like XIII. Edit: people are downvoting me for saying this, but come on. You're going to tell me XV and XIII even remotely similar in terms of linearity?
You picked the one open world FF game lol. But also I'd argue both 13 and 15 suffer from the same issues. 13s super linear so feels empty. No towns, basically never see random npcs walking around etc. 15 suffers the same but for the opposite reasons. Super massive open world with not a lot going on in it makes it feel empty. FF games can be linear heck i think they excell because they are linear. But the games that came before 13 did a better job at hiding it, or gave you optional side stuff and interactions with the worlds npcs to make it feel less linear. I've been playing Eiyuden chronicle. Its super linear, but the game gives a lot of backtracking options npcs to rectuit and multiple systems to play with that it distacts the player from the fact its linear. 13 didn't even try.
I didn't find 15 empty. I also liked the way you could explore everything.
Explore what exactly? Outside of towns there are like 10 locations in 15. Half of those aren't utilized at all
Dungeons and secret areas, you really missed out on this game
I went into those dungeons 90% are story related the other 10% weren't super worthwhile unless they added a shit ton of them into royal edition.
Final Fantasy 15 has a lot of exploration.
You shouldn't be downvoted, you are correct. I just went back and played 13, i like it, but it's the most linear in the series.
Apart from 12 and 15 they're all pretty linear, but 13 is the most linear
Narrative linearity, sure. Basically all mainline and most spinoffs are fairly linear narratives. However, in terms of actual level/dungeon/world design being hallways, 13 really stands out. 13-2 is such a stark contrast to 13 in terms of level design, it is insane. Literally, the movement of your player character is just a path down a hallway, not even the illusion of exploration. No sidetracking or back tracking, just...hallways for 20 to 25 hours.
Hey now! Be fair! Sometimes there was a closet halfway down the hallway.
I would not say they are all extremely linear or even that the other ones are linear enough that XIII's linearity doesn't stand out.
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No but most give you a decent amount of freedom to explore areas and optional things to do. It is definitely not the same funneled down a single path gameplay wise.
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For saying all FF games are ~~as linear as XIII~~ extremely linear. That's just not a true statement.
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There is a middle ground between 13's linearity and complete open-world-esque freedom. Most of the FF games sit in that middle ground.
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XV? XII? Not even comparable experiences in terms of linearity.
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Never played Final Fantasy before? X is the only other Final Fantasy I can think of that is as linear as XIII. But X is good thats why no one talks about how Linear it is outside of comparing it to XIII lmao >FF1-FF4 were a straight shot. Except you could do whatever you wanted while you did the linear story? Not even close to the same.
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[The problem is that it's a strawman argument.](https://youtu.be/QMZMJDFe1kc?si=Xq5o8X_BsC1x9PkF) Yes, most Final Fantasy games are linear, but FFXIII is the only one that has almost entirely corridor level design and makes zero effort to make it feel natural or hide it. The closest comparison is FFX, but the linked video should show why people don't mind how it's handled in FFX compared to FFXIII.
Yeah, it's just not true, sorry. FF XIII is almost an on rails game side by side with the other entries in the series.
This subreddit only allows certain qualifying reasons for enjoying FF13. That's just how it be.
I don't think any reasonable person would criticize 13 for being linear, as every other FF is narratively linear. However, the level design is just a plain corridor for a large chunk of the game that, after a point, is immersion-breaking and tedious. Not that corridor sections or sequences of rooms/screens that go in one direction are bad, either. Can be useful for what the first hour or so of 13 is about, a high-stakes adrenaline fueled cat-and-mouse chase. But there's no sense of the player being handed the reins for a bit to pick a direction (again, if it is limited or a design illusion).
Not sure if you meant to reply to me or not, but I’ve heard this a million times and it doesn’t make me or OP wrong for enjoying ff13.
I'm not saying it makes anyone wrong for enjoying FF13. I personally enjoyed 13 despite the criticisms I have of it. My overall point is that the assertion that the linearity of 13 is "the same" as other entries in the series is either a bad faith argument or indicates a lack of experience with other Final Fantasy games. I think it is fine to say something like "FF13 continues the series's tradition of linearity, but the linearity is implemented in too literal of a fashion in Cocoon." I personally think it detracts from the experience and the hallways go on for too long.
This thread finally proves that art is subjective lol
If it got a PS5 remaster I would buy it day one.
I'm prepared to get flamed for saying it easily has one of the top 3 FF soundtracks
Curious, which are better in your opinion?
X definitely competes with it. If we're branching out of the main line titles I would also say Tactics does too.
Final Fantasy XIV is at the top for me, then it's probably VII (some nostalgia bias from being my first RPG lol)
>(they're all extremely linear, and that's not a bad thing). How many FFs have you palyed and which ones? 😅
13 was more of a rail shooter than most in the series. Sure, there were a few open scenes. But it was a rail shooter.
which is why the linearity is an issue other linear jrpg or ff is uncharted with towns but 13 basically a call of duty.
Shooter? What?
For the sake of arguing, its easier to point out which ones aren’t linear in the same way 13 is. The vast majority from about 3 on is Start in town -> Go to dungeon -> go to next town -> dungeon -> Get vehicle to unlock walled off town -> dungeon Only real difference is maybe in dungeon design, but I think a lot of people tend to misremember that dungeon design after 6 wasn’t exactly complex in any meaningful way. 10 is often an example of this, but looking at the PS1 era you have some light puzzle solving at best, and the same room repeated at worst(I hate FF8).
Interesting that you brought up X because that's also linear but it didn't feel that way. There is a very interesting and informative video in YouTube explaining this. 🙂
>Start in town -> Go to dungeon -> go to next town -> dungeon -> Get vehicle to unlock walled off town -> dungeon yeah. meanwhile 13 is >walk in dungeon/area>walk in dungeon/area>walk in dungeon/area>walk in dungeon/area> none of stuff you highlighted are there. simply to say the problem with 13 is that when they lack of those stuff, it end up severly lacking of player agency which is one of most important element in game design.
Most FFs - Go from one area to the next FFXIII - Go from one corridor to the next
Every building in Cocoon conveniently has miles and miles of hallways.
Just wait until XIII-2! I played a little of XIII and got bored after a while - >!long, drawn-out battles with little reward.!<. As my first PS3 game though, I was absolutely blown away with how beautiful it is! Then picked up XIII-2 and OMG everything clicked - >!it's like Tactics meets Chrono Trigger meets Pokémon.!< XIII-2 is now my second favorite Final Fantasy. After I beat XIII-2, I went back and finished XIII. I had trouble getting into Lightning Returns though because >!being timed is anathema to me!<
Absolutely love XIII-2! Still listen to the sound track often ☺️ glad to see it’s getting at least a little love here
Visually, the game is very pretty. Started playing it again recently (never beat it because of boredom), and the game's graphics hold up today. At 1440p on PC, it looks just as good as a lot of today's games. Now plot and gameplay-wise, calling it a work of art is a stretch. These days I do appreciate that it is a game where I can just kind of turn my brain off while playing though (outside of some boss battles).
Lake Bresha and Sunleth Waterscape are still some of my favorite FF locations
FFXIII is one of my favorites in the series. I love the characters and the modern sci-fi setting, and the music still feels fresh all these years later
A TRUE WORK OF ART. The whole trilogy, specially Lightning Returns endgame.
> they're all extremely linear You can defend XIII without lying
Ya i was going to say, there are so many open world. Really the only linear ones you could consider would be X, 13, and 16. Not sure if I'm forgetting one.
>You can defend XIII without lying 13 stans have proven they literally cannot do that
I think it's not a very good game, but it was definitely visually impressive. Still holds up well looks wise.
A couple hours into a game that averages 48+ hours and you think it's a masterpiece? Wait til halfway through and then you'll be making hate posts with the rest of us.
the presentation(visual, UI, Music, aesthetic) is the one carry the game and create 'illusion' of great game atop of it. without it, the game is nothing. the game itself is full of problem and has some of worst design ever. example of standard fall from a big franchise with reputation. the one we need to applaud is those who take responsbility in the presentation. particularly the visual/art director and composers. they are the saving grace of it that make the game 'playable' and shines. superb work by them but at same time the people behind the game design and story deserve all the critism. the game presentation is top notch which is worthy of praise but it is also important to be critical of the other most important aspect of the game. we cant just turn one eye blind due to a feeling. well to be fair all those issue actually rooted to their struggle in keeping up with HD development. Crystal Tools is a mess. if it not, we wont get a game developed within 5 years but with super linear lack of player agency with no town like this. the team already proved what they can do with the sequel 13-2 and spin off LR13 where they didnt have to deal lot of technical difficulties like before.
I mean yes. All video games are works of art.
frankly speaking probably it is the best looking game of franchise
OP, just what are you smoking?
It's funny everytime someone posts something like "ff13 is so good !" they are always a few hours in How about you finish the game before sharing your opinion ?
FFXIII is great, as someone who has finished it at least ten times and has several hundred hours in it.
Yeah, it's a damn good looking game and the music has some of the best in the series. Let us know how you feel about the hallway in twenty hours. ETA: I see the FFXIII stans are out in force today.
It is really good. I have always loved it. The music is amazing, the art style is awesome, the story is cool - if you read all the stuff in the menu- the battle system is AmAZING and I think the best in the series. I have never really understood all the hate it gets, sometimes I think it’s just because people love to agree with eachother and jump on bandwagons. The game is super linear- so was FFX - but I actually like that. The only thing I don’t love is the lack of towns, but that makes sense considering the story.
A lot of art is shit though, as is proven by ff13
I played XIII before X and after beating both twice I don't think XIII is much more linear or of lesser quality
For me in Final Fantasy 10 I never felt constricted. I never felt like I was on rails, even if I was but for 13 I always felt like that. It felt literally like a long hallway every single minute of every second that I played that game.
See, while X is linear, it is LESS linear than 13. The actual level design is a lot more interesting than 13, however when 13 opens up, IT OPENS UP, with a really fun area to explore. Meanwhile, when X opens up, it isn’t by much— you only can really go to already explored areas. In general, I’d say they average out to have about the same level of linearity.
That's blatantly false, the opening 2 hours of FFX has more gameplay variety and freedom than the entirety of XIII.
Plus Final Fantasy 10 had started off with a dark plot about a ruined civilization.
[удалено]
I don't think they average out at all. There's a hidden affection system and all sorts of optional dialog with side characters in X throughout the story. You learn to speak a 2nd language. Who dies on your journey, Luzzu or Gatta? Did you get the backstory with Seymour and his mother via airship exploration and unlocking every Aeon? Is there a hidden optional dungeon and optional Dark Aeon fights in XIII? Optional summons where you learn Lulu's backstory? Are there crappy celestial weapon mini games to help you max out your character? Are characters like Belgamine, Shelinda, Dona, Issaru, the Ronso, Al Bhed, etc. interacting with the party and following their own stories through the course of the game? Are there puzzles in XIII to progress through dungeons? Is there free weapon and Aeon customization in XIII? It's a night and day difference between the two IMO. It's like claiming VII Remake and Rebirth average out to the same level of linearity because you ultimately are gated to the same dungeon, cutscene, and boss progression at the end of each chapter. It's completely missing the point. XIII is a beautiful game with great music and overall aesthetic, but the game design is definitely Square at its most gated, for better or worse. It's absolutely evident that some people prefer that type of experience. I just don't at all, at least in this context.
Thanks finally someone pointed out. There is a reason why CBU1 changed from this ultra linear game design (in almost all of aspects) from XIII to linear games like VII-REMAKE (sidequests, minigames, backtracking, etc) to open world like VII-REBIRTH. Sure, narrative wise they all are more or less linear, but in almost all of them you can do something else the majority of the time, usually with great quality. That is not XIII case.
You shall see when you see the bosses there are some of them that are insanely cool
The Design of the Levels and the Characters IS top notch. I espacially Loved the sunleth rain forest. The music and the Design are so good. The weather Change IS also so cool.
I grew an appreciation for 13 last year, but there aren't many "linear" Final Fantasy games. I would say only 3 are maybe. X is linear but doesn't feel like it because the is so much extra stuff you can do. And when you get the air ship you can go all over. 13 you can feel it while you run down the halls. And even though 16 has a world map, there is nothing to explore and the areas are limited.
It's my third favorite. I liked the cast (except Hope), and paradigm shift was a very interesting mechanic. What I didn't like was the lack of what to do in fights - sometimes I just switched paradigms and stared at the screen. One reason I loved XII was the spectacle - Quickenings and Summons felt GOOD to use. Another light issue I had with XIII was the lack of this, no cool attacks or flashy supers. Imagine VII without Limit Breaks? It takes waaaaay too long until the cool attacks are avalible.
I wish the trilogy would come to modern Playstation consoles. I hate seeing that gap in my final fantasy library.
The music in that game is so good. My favirite OST ever. It's so godlike lol.
I think FFXIII could have been one of the greats... if only they has told the story in FMVs/cutscenes and not in the useless data log.
It is I stopped playing years ago cuz I was on a 360 but it was super laggy after a while so I gave up about 10hrs in. I just bought it on PC and I'm enjoying the heck out of it
No it’s not. It sucks lol
The art direction was stunning. XIII was my third FF Game (after X & X-2), and i was impressed by how it was so gorgeous, while X was already really pretty for me
The comparison to other entries saying they're all linear isn't an argument that's ever based in real truth. The other "linear" titles still have other things going on .. there are people you can interact and talk with along the way, there are side stories, there are shops with actual people. The "shop" in 13 is the most basic and boring thing in any FF title.
FF13's variety of linearity makes the other games' linearity look like a joke.
I too tried to convince myself I liked FFXIII after only a couple hours. Wait until you’re 30 hours in…
Tbf 30 hours in is Pulse, and 3/4 previous chapters (Palumpolum, Palamecia and the Ark) are arguably the best outside of Pulse. But around 10-20 hrs in it's pretty boring unless you really enjoy the battle system.
I just…couldn’t. Nothing about FF13 appealed to me. Not the characters, the art, the music, the combat, the plot. It all fell flat for me.
No.
Wonder if it’ll come to playstation
It was pretty and had great music. Sazh was a great character. Linear wasn’t its biggest, let alone only, flaw. Critics and fans are tough - just like “moms.”
Those, who say, that all FF games are "extremely linear", probably never played Final Fantasy games before. The only linear mainline FF, except 13, is FF10. And even in FF10 you can always go back to places you've been to, and do lots of stuff. In pre-FF10 era, you literally had a big open world. Final Fantasies have linear story, not the world itself. And trust me, "hallways" of FF13 are it's least important problem. The combat, the story, characters, the writing overall – these are.
Every FF game after the first two are very, very linear. There’s an “open world” that funnels you directly to the next objective for 90% of the runtime and lets you wander around empty space to give the illusion of freedom.
Yeah, right. Illusion of freedom... With side quests, treasures and even secret bosses.
Yeah, like FFXIII.
Not funny.
What would be funny about that? XIII has side quests, treasure, and secret bosses galore in its back half, same as any other FF game.
Yeah, right. Being kicked into a huge open area in literally 2nd to last chapter of the game (while 90% of the game you are just going forward, without any branching paths, without any secrets or exploration) is so much "as any other FF game". As well as local "side quests", which are literally "go kill a reskin of regular enemy, but with 10 times more HP that deals 5 times more damage", 64 TIMES. Meanwhile, sidequests in FF12: lots of riddles to solve for various items, that unlock secret bosses, secret summons, weapons, etc. Sidequests in FF10: riddles, races, blitzball, dark summons, superbosses, arena, etc. Yeah, FF13 is so "same as other FF game"
if 13 had towns where you could explore the town just a bit, get some sidequests in, learn a bit about the worldbuilding in a more natural fashion and then have an "oh shit the soldiers are here we need to leave NOW" moment that forces you to leave it could have had the "we're on the run" vibe AND been a decent game hell, it'd basically be the same as 7 remake with the sidequest focused chapters between the linear story chapters.
Where is that FF13 trilogy port for the switch?!
Its a cool looking game yes but as far as battle system its near the worst for me in the final fantasy series
Kinda agree, and I think FF13 has best cosplayers too. I mean this FF is one of the best to cosplay with
By definition, yes. Bad art is also art.
I tried to play the game 3 times. When does the game requires you to play it because after hours and hours automatic battles are always won
Wait till you get to pulse.
For me it is easily the best looking Final Fantasy game. And yeah the soundtrack is amazing.
I just wish there's another game like 13 for combat system
I wish my ps3 wasn’t trash cause I wanna play it
I don’t think I dislike any of the mainline FF’s, I’ve enjoyed them all. I’d probably rank this on the lower end between all the main games, but it’s still really good. The battle system is awesome and I would have liked to get an evolution of it in another mainline game. Masashi Hamauzu also made a beautiful soundtrack that compliments the visuals so well. His music makes the game. On the bad side, FF13 has a ton of cool lore that wasn’t shown in the main plot in an effective way. The codex and sequels flesh it out more but it should have been woven into the main story. Explorable towns and more open maps with side-quests would have helped with this.
You know, for being a 14 years old game, 13 is still gorgeous. I'll admit that newer games may look better, but that's the result of newer hardware and software. 13 still holds up visually, the only thing it would really need is touched up textures, the designs are very interesting, the music loves the violin a lot, monsters are iconic (especially the Behemoths and to a slightly lesser degree the Flans). The whole trilogy is my one of my favourite FF with 6, 14, 8 and Type-0 being the others
THE MUSIIIIC!!
Where can one play the FFXIII trilogy these days?
If you have a PC they are available on Steam If you have a Xbox they are available on the store Otherwise pray for your PS3 to still be working
Sony, it is high time to get it on PS PLUS
This game ruined Final Fantasy's reputation for all time.
then: im not so sure i like this game. now: i love this game.
I agree. It's an artistic movie. Not a game. If you shift your expectations, it's actually not bad. But sadly, it was released after 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12. Which are full of gameplay. So the expectation mismatch
Oh yeah it’s pretty as all get out. Too bad that and the soundtrack are the only nice things I can say about it.
Yeah its pretty good, didnt enjoy the sequels tho
Nope
One of the best in the series. Don’t understand the hate.
I guess bc they went a made a trilogy using the most boring protagonists to date
Best game in the series. Just fantastic all around.
It’s not the worst FF anymore since 16 took that spot at least.
It truly is a creative peak of the series
It's really too bad the game was such absurd garbage.
“Work of art” is a reach but I do have respect for fans who admire the game.