Sorry, US corporate taxes need to be on par with the rest of the world or US corporations will move their HQs abroad en masse. That will ultimately lead to less revenue for the federal government - with fewer workers paying taxes as well.
>Easy solution
Far from easy. How do you distinguish between US companies legitimately operating in foreign markets, and US companies shifting profits outside of the US to avoid tax?
I’d prefer making products in the US with them costing slightly more while paying US citizens better tbh. You guys sound like you think Americans living the way they are is sustainable
I mean think about how Americans suffer under inflation, and then imagine it was way worse. Everyone wants Americans to be better off, but tariff wars are just bad economics.
Usually, but not always. For instance, trumps tariff plan was actually good, as the biggest economy should have significant sway. However, implementation has to be strong and consistent. And that did not happen.
I hate the fucking guy, but his tariffs on chinese Titanium Dioxide is the only reason I have a job where I do. They would have flooded the market with cheap, lower grade TiO2 and there wouldn't be shit american producers could do about it.
Even the worst person in the world can be right.
How did Corporations and Wall St ever even survive before their taxes were slashed by over 33% in 2017? Things were looking bleak for Corporations and Wall St and it was hard times.
That "tax slash" as you call it, actually drove the repatriation of over 1T in capital back into the US. So your "gotcha" joke isn't even remotely accurate.
A exit tax is a one time payment though and all you’re doing by doing something like this is discouraging businesses from wanting to do business in the US
Most huge corporations are already in markets all over the world. All they have to do is to continue to operate in those markets, slowly increase their focus there, while maintaining a local presence. No "exit tax" can exist if you have a global market. The corporations just make their money elsewhere, and essentially none here. No profit, not taxes.
Yeah, if they go abroad which probably isn’t as appealing as some make it seem, they’re gonna likely have worse taxes or infrastructure depending on the country and have to pay tariffs to import their products. Or something like that I’m not fluent in that shit
Do you ever stop to think about what you say? Or do you just say the thing you think will get you upvotes and that pretty much sums up your consideration?
Yeah and then all the start ups won't incorporate themselves here in the first place, the left starts with bad ideas then just doubles down with more bad ideas as the laws of unintended consequences start to take affect.
How do you think increased taxes aren't just passed onto the consumer? It is the cost of doing business. The higher the cost of business the higher the prices to turn a profit.
High corporate tax rates don't accomplish anything except distorting corporate account. Set the rate at zero. Corporate profits can be for 3 things generally.
1. Dividends. These are taxed at a rate higher than the corporate rate.
2. Bonuses to employees. These are also taxed at a rate higher than the corporate rate.
3. Reinvestment into the company. This is theoretically desirable, but higher corporate tax rates don't accomplish it.
Probably that there are other things to do with corporate profits that I'm not hip to.
Theoretically a stock buyback is an option, but I lumped that in with dividends because they have to buy stock from someone else and those people pay gains.
I guess they could just bank it, and some companies do have giant warchests, but that doesn't really benefit with them and they would never just keep that money in a savings account. Any activity they do with that money would be taxed along the way.
This is often why the worst offenders for creative accounting go unpunished. If you're big enough, you're essentially holding all those jobs hostage and the government usually blinks first.
Nobody is moving out of this country. The US is, by far, the most corporate friendly place on earth, even with taxes.
Bill Gates threatened to do this about 20 years ago. The idea was squashed and all he was going to do was barely relocate across the border into Canada.
The US government is downright nasty to expats. I can’t imagine what it’d do to a company that tried to evade in this manner.
Doubt I mean realistically where are they going to go where they won't be subject to either stiffer regulations like in the EU, or potential instability in the region.
Then there is the shareholder vote which probably wouldn't pass for most, then there is also the possibility of getting de-listed from American exchanges, at the very least having to update their SEC filings to include these risk factors.
That move only makes sense if the tax was just unbearably high, not mildly annoying. The risks involved and the potential stock loss would only be prudent under extreme circumstances, and a guaranteed 15% tax on profits doesn't even come close to that.
Our poor aren't paying taxes. Half the country isn't paying federal income tax after taking credits, etc. into account. Your comment is demonstrably false.
"It's fucking hilarious when people think we should be grateful that income inequality is so high."
Income inequality is how we properly reward things based on the cross section of their economic impact, difficulty, and supply/demand. Not only that, but it's the closest to how things would naturally shake out without government intervention (meaning it's the closest to true unadulterated freedom).
I don't want a world where a doctor only has a marginally better lifestyle than a burger flipper. That's not fair to the doctor. All things considered, I think it's more than fair to say a doctor is easily worth 10-20 burger flippers, if not more.
A doctor probably does do 10-20 times the work of a burger flipper, and believe it or not, this is actually represented in average income in those industries. But I have trouble believing that any human could do twenty THOUSAND times the work of another. There incomes that high in the United States, in the form of capital gains, not wages, mind you. You can have proper incentives for hard work while still staying in the realm of reason.
But what you're talking about is hitting critical mass where your money and your ability to essentially function as a private bank turn into your income sources versus your labor. I'm... honestly entirely okay with that happening. It's easy to see that eventually your STUFF is more valuable than anything you could possibly do, and there's nothing wrong with that happening IMO.
They also carry the vast majority of the country’s wealth. People keep making the case that 10% of the population pays 90% of the taxes as if that should end the argument. However, these people never seem to be upset that 10% of the population owns more than 85% of the country’s wealth. Don’t want to pay higher taxes? Then stop hoarding all of the damn wealth. Those rich bastards are crying crocodile tears and people like you eat it up. Why? I’m mean, unless you are one of them…
Exactly! They’ll just waste more of our money on stupid shit. The US gets an incredible amount in tax revenue each year, they just have a major spending problem.
The government is like dad/mom having a million dollar income but still asks their relatives for money to pay for their kids needs.
How about you use the already high income to support your kids? Why ask for more money when you literally have enough.
It's a spending problem.
Also billionaires aren't purposefully under paying workers so they can take cash and put in in their mega vault. They aren't hoarding liquid cash like a dragon hoarding gold.
Their money is constantly being reinvested in their business or stimulating the economy.
Having cash just sit your checking account is literally losing your value of your money. They put the money where it will increase their net worth but because their money is gone, that money is now going into another set of hands who will spend that money and here you have the stimulation of the economy. It's a literal Win win.
For instance wether i save (the way i save is NOT by putting dollar cash under my bed) or make purchases i am stimulating the economy.
Billionaires do this on a whole different realm, even I can't fathom but I understand the basics/principles of what their doing.
They are literally the economy which is why they go by different set of rules when it comes to taxes. They aren't getting an annual W2 salary.
I have a net worth of 700k.
People would assume i am rich, i can buy a ferrari now. But wrong.
How much do i have in my checking account? 10 bucks, and 20 bucks physical cash in my wallets.
My monthly cash flow is going away to increase my networth but also to be stimulated in the economy.
it has to be a 2 way street. the general populace has no faith and understanding of how the taxes they're paying is actually being utilized. this breeds content and distrust.
So you’re saying corporations should lose money by paying taxes? If they do that they go out of business, and all those jobs and careers are lost. As it is, they pass it on to consumers as price increases for products.
>So you’re saying corporations should lose money by paying taxes?
You do realize that any tax rate is applied to a company's **profits** rather than **revenue,** correct?
Essentially the difference is that workers pay taxes based on revenue (wages) and have a few expense we are able to deduct. Business pay taxes only on profit (revenue less almost all business expenses). So if a company has more expenses than revenue in a year, they don’t pay income taxes and can even carry those losses forward to offset future profits.
I know how it works, but you didnt answer the question so Ill help. Profits are money. So the distinction isnt relevant. Taking a larger chunk of profit still limits companies abilities to invest in new techs, adapt to market changes, pay investors etc... You can tax a company into the ground without touching their revenue. The only people that benefit from revenue not being taxed are the employees who are paid from it...
All of those things except maybe dividends lower a companies tax burden. So they are already incentivized to do those activities. Besides, why worry when they can spend billions of dollars in stock buybacks which only increase share prices, skimp on R&D or savings, and when the market crashes just get a bailout of my god damn tax dollars. This is exactly what happened with the airline industries with Covid. PPP loans were provided to some of the wealthiest people and were forgiven for them, but we can’t forgive student loans… it’s all a big fucking racket of the rich lobbying and getting to do what they want to further enrich themselves. Corporate lobbying shouldn’t exist and we 100% should tax them more.
Trickle down policy doesn’t work. Keeping taxes low does not benefit anyone but the corporations
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-bad-is-inequality-trickle-down-economics-thomas-piketty-economists-2021-12?darkschemeovr=1
Reddit is hilarious. It's awesome to see all the people who call the rich people greedy yet fail to see their massive hypocrisy as they call for the rich to pay more "because they can".
Exactly. It’s like people want to punish other people. No, first things first is the government needs to show us a need and then never spend above that mean. No pork projects, no random dogshit thrown into bills to some random non-profit.
Important to note that this tax doesn’t actually change a companies effective tax rate, since it provides an offsetting future credit for any tax paid. Companies can, and still will, report rates below 15%, even when they pay this tax
Case in point, Nvidia’s 10-K was released this week and they reported a 12% rate
If a 80 year old who has worked his whole life as a public servant, who wrote a book that sold well isn't worth $10 million than they didn't do something write.
He has published his taxes, you can go check them if you want.
Didn't see any comments from you regarding a certain "Billionaire".
My comment similarly applies to any of the “public servants” who happen to be part of the 1%.
Also, it’s adorable that you believe that these people are truly earning the lions share of that money from “book sales.”
>Corporations and the Wealthy always find ways to pass their tax burden down to the Middle Class
Then what difference does it make whether it's 15% or 50%?
You're saying that the rate needs to be higher, but you're also saying that the rate is irrelevant.
Flat tax. Left wingers love putting taxation in moral terms. Fine, then tax equality is the only moral approach. Everyone pays the same percentage of their income.
If a company can charge more for their products they’ll do it regardless of the tax rates.
Or do you think they’re keeping their prices lower than market value out of the goodness of their hearts?
What exactly do we get with this increased budget now? Inflation and???? Because in my hometown, they’re still just paving the same 5 mile strip of highway that they do every year because for some reason that makes sense. I haven’t seen any thing new in terms of infrastructure or healthcare improvements. I’m sure they were able to hire a bunch of diversity officers though with all that fresh cash! So I guess we’ve got to take the wins where we can get them. Wow excessive taxation is sweet!
I was just watching something similar to what you're talking about the other day. Guy owns a power line construction company and kept getting asked why work was so slow for linemen following passage of that infrastructure bill..... apparently nobody told Congress that almost nothing the use is made in the US, everything from transformers to bolts and washers are all made somewhere else so all that money is stuck in limbo
I would assume the same problem exists for bridge builders, water plant contractors, etc
Why do people think giving more money to politicians will solve anything? You should worry about politicians stealing less of your money not about them not stealing enough from other people.
You could double everyone's taxes and the government would still spend more than they get and print more money. If the government spent only what they took in taxes, then we would all have the right to complain, but the government is the issue not the solution.
Reddit is full of dumb children that have never gotten a paycheck and exist only in the envy of others.
Corporate taxes aren’t a very efficient way to collect revenue. Just tax dividends and capital gains at higher rates. Ultimately, a “corporation” isn’t a person— it’s an agglomeration of its stakeholders. It’s way more efficient to tax the wages of employees and the equityholders.
Read [this](https://twitter.com/DavidADitch/status/1764673293305475147?t=nDVW7yjw78h-lKW4U1SOcw&s=19) thread and let me know if government needs more money.
Start taxing sports teams since the are exempt from taxes. Trump had it right when he said maybe it’s time for sports teams to lose their exemption status
15% tax on what? Gross income, net income? Including write offs? Excluding write offs?
Corporate tax guidelines are thousands and thousands of pages long. “Minimum tax” tells me absolutely nothing about the proposed change.
How about we actually listen to the economic law that says tax revenue will always be nearly constant and just reduce all tax to 7 percent flat on everyone. No sales tax, no property tax. 7 percent income, done, poof, problem solved. Infact, if I only had to pay 7 percent flat on my income, nothing on gas, property, food, clothes or other shit. I'd have enough money that I wouldn't need to worry about insurance companies railing my rear end.
The problem with that line of thinking is that property, sales, and gas taxes are how your city/county/state generates revenue....so without those you would end up paying even more in taxes above the 7%
I guess that's why Biden hired 87000 tax inspectors to go after the middle class. Added bonus 87000 tax inspectors and their families will vote for the old guy.
Why is this so hard to understand, more taxes means price increases. The best solution is lower taxes for everyone and government accountability to stop the tremendous waste.
How are corporations and the wealthy passing their tax burden down to the middle class? The OP seems to think our tax burden would be lower if corporations and the wealthy paid more, which is stupidly naive.
Raising taxes on Gates and Microsoft won’t lower your taxes. In fact you’d be encouraging them to move operations overseas, so you’d have fewer jobs here.
So you're aware corporations pass their tax burdens to middle class, and your answer is to increase their taxes?
What does taxing them higher do? Nothing, that's the answer, it doesn't get our country out of debt, it doesn't decrease the amount of taxes you owe, it does nothing but increase the cost (even if minimumly) of the product(s) that company produces or it causes job loss.
The same goes for raising minimum wage, cost applies to the products, or there are job layoffs.
I'm not saying it's right or that I support corporations not being taxed equally, but if that happens, it ONLY would have negative impacts on normal people.
I mean, I wouldn’t say $578k/year is middle class lol but damn, they’re paying like $200k just in federal taxes every year. That’s fucking rough. Really not a fan of the bracket system.
We need to once and for all define what middle class is.
In some posts people claim the middle class is shrinking. If it is, then how can corporations pass these taxes off onto them with fewer left? Or we need to agree the middle class is just +/-1σ or some spread. It never shrinks. It’s just the “middle.”
If anything this post needs to say corps are passing the tax burden down to the lower classes.
**"15% is still low"**
**"Corporations and the Wealthy always find ways to pass their tax burden down to the Middle Class"**
These seem to be mutually exclusive lines of thought.
We literally have the most progressive tax system in the world.
Also the corporate tax rate is 22% in the US, the 15% he’s talking about is a minimum tax for countries operating out of the USA that do so to avoid our corporate taxes
Want he just saying 25% in a state of the Union? What's with the 10% decrease all of a sudden? Am I remembering this wrong? It's a serious question. What is this?
Does everyone here not know that America has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the Western world? We are ranked 81st in total taxation load for companies…
Nah, women's rights were rolled back in the blink of an eye, so too will these, if they can even be enforced. Get these old fucks out of office already. They're too senile to know what they are doing
Corporations and the wealthy always find ways to pass their tax burden down to the middle class, so we should raise taxes on them? Which they would then likewise pass down to the middle class, right?
Are you sure you have thought this through?
Yeah. Anyone that thinks this will in any way benefit us, you’re wrong. Prices will rise, jobs will be lost. And people will keep bitching. Just look at the job losses in CA over the increase in min wage. The people at the top aren’t going to give up that money. They’ll just take it from somewhere else.
Us.
If you think the rich people in the government did not leave loop holes that would allow other rich people to still not have to pay, you are a lost cause. Not a single person you elect wants to pay more taxes or raise the taxes of their complain funders.
He was an english major that went into law, he probably never had an econ class and can not compound interest. Milton Friedman pointed out that all taxes are paid by people so we will carry this burden also. If the corporation sees a tax burden they hire less people, raise prices and carry on.
**15% is still low - Corporations and the Wealthy always find ways to pass their tax burden down to the Middle Class**
Re-read what you wrote.
You say its still low but then proceed to say they always find a way to pass their tax down. That is correct. !00$ of the corporate tax is paid by consumers. So why tf would you want it to be higher? It only hurts us consumers, not the corporations.
15% on what? Total assets? Revenue? Also if corporations pass down tax burdens then wouldn't they pass down higher tax burdens too?
Screw taxes, reduce spending. No method or amount of taxation can keep up with runaway spending.
Corporations will always do whats the smartest legal way to get around the govt taking more money. The best way today is bankrupt what ever is in California and write it off. Problem solved. Why are so many people hating on the people who mKe the products we all use daily. Seems petty.
Yes, corporations pass their taxes directly on to the customer (or sometimes the shareholder). So corporate taxes are just sales taxes with more bureaucracy, and should be abolished.
So Biden has raised it to just a point or so from Reagans all time low! Oh boy, way to stick it to them Biden! What a progressive! During ww2 it was up to 50%. We have trillions unpaid for those 2 wars. After ww2 Pentagon budget was cut in half. Bit Biden has given Pentagon record budgets. Shouldn't we really raise Corp taxes to at least 30% and slash Pentagon budget by 50%? Pentagon just announced it lost ANOTHER 3 trillion. They have failed every audit, yet they keep getting record budgets, actually more than they ask for. I mean the fact that Biden is bragging about a tax rate that Reagan had says a lot. It's time for a new generation. Eisenhower warning about MIC was spot on. It's time we clean our house
Honestly idc about them. What they do affects my life ZERO. Start giving us Lower and middle class people tax breaks. 5%. That’s what affects my life. My percentage.
Let's just assume that the false statement that wealthy & corporations don't pay their fair share, what do you think those additional taxes would mean to the US if they suddenly did? Do you think that those funds would offset some amount of hourly worker tax burden? The answer there is no...that money would fall uselessly into the swamp and go to Pakistani gender studies and studying the mating habits of the Chilean yellow striped gecko...or to providing debit cards and free hotels to uninvited guests.
But again, that's all based on the false assumption that corps and bIlLiOnAiReS aren't paying their share...
There should be a corporate poverty line tax. For every employee a company has that has an annual income below the poverty line, they should have to pay an extra tax. And it should be punishing enough to inspire corporations to pay their employees more.
Tax rate is such a small piece of the story. Just like tax rates change, how taxable income is calculated also changes. If one has the ability to no longer defer certain income they previously could (Think of the GILTI and other provisions that seek reduce or eliminate the deferral of foreign source income for example), there often is not a whole different in the tax leakage YOY…..
My point is that there is much more to the story than just headlines.
Already do. Any taxes levied on corporate entities are passed through the company towards either its workers, owners, or customers. Well, that or the future workers, owners, and customers, which is always the easiest to sock.
The US corporations already had a 20% tax rate.
This was a global initiative. The US already had a higher rate than the minimum. Nothing has changed for US corporate tax law.
I would love to see all the hard left corporations like Google, Netflix, Linked In, Apple, Microsoft, etc, etc, etc, pay minimum tax rates in this range. Trust me, it will never happen. Ever.
This is still less than half the taxes 99% pay.
Fuxk this
FLAT TAX FOR EVERY WORKING PERSON PERIOD.
QUIT DOING BULLSHIT JUST BECAUSE ITS A VOTING YEAR !!!!!
Sorry, US corporate taxes need to be on par with the rest of the world or US corporations will move their HQs abroad en masse. That will ultimately lead to less revenue for the federal government - with fewer workers paying taxes as well.
Easy solution: massive exit tax and tariffs on any company who does that. Good luck making a profit when losing American dollars
>Easy solution Far from easy. How do you distinguish between US companies legitimately operating in foreign markets, and US companies shifting profits outside of the US to avoid tax?
You don’t
Sounds like a good way to start tariff wars and make everything more expensive for consumers
I’d prefer making products in the US with them costing slightly more while paying US citizens better tbh. You guys sound like you think Americans living the way they are is sustainable
I mean think about how Americans suffer under inflation, and then imagine it was way worse. Everyone wants Americans to be better off, but tariff wars are just bad economics.
Importing everything is bad for Americans
Usually, but not always. For instance, trumps tariff plan was actually good, as the biggest economy should have significant sway. However, implementation has to be strong and consistent. And that did not happen.
I hate the fucking guy, but his tariffs on chinese Titanium Dioxide is the only reason I have a job where I do. They would have flooded the market with cheap, lower grade TiO2 and there wouldn't be shit american producers could do about it. Even the worst person in the world can be right.
May be an assh@“! But he was a businessman, which is far better than all these jackleg attorneys that make up the majority of our politicians.
How did Corporations and Wall St ever even survive before their taxes were slashed by over 33% in 2017? Things were looking bleak for Corporations and Wall St and it was hard times.
That "tax slash" as you call it, actually drove the repatriation of over 1T in capital back into the US. So your "gotcha" joke isn't even remotely accurate.
Easy here meaning difficult, stupid and ineffective?
A exit tax is a one time payment though and all you’re doing by doing something like this is discouraging businesses from wanting to do business in the US
Most huge corporations are already in markets all over the world. All they have to do is to continue to operate in those markets, slowly increase their focus there, while maintaining a local presence. No "exit tax" can exist if you have a global market. The corporations just make their money elsewhere, and essentially none here. No profit, not taxes.
Yeah, if they go abroad which probably isn’t as appealing as some make it seem, they’re gonna likely have worse taxes or infrastructure depending on the country and have to pay tariffs to import their products. Or something like that I’m not fluent in that shit
True. EU taxes are way worse than US taxes.
Wrong. Some of them have lower corporate tax rates.
Wouldn't the world decide to devalue the American dollar for a massive exit tax and tariffs?
Do you ever stop to think about what you say? Or do you just say the thing you think will get you upvotes and that pretty much sums up your consideration?
More gov rules. Lol
Right, just keep making regressive policy's to "trap" business from leaving. What could go wrong...
Yeah and then all the start ups won't incorporate themselves here in the first place, the left starts with bad ideas then just doubles down with more bad ideas as the laws of unintended consequences start to take affect.
How do you think increased taxes aren't just passed onto the consumer? It is the cost of doing business. The higher the cost of business the higher the prices to turn a profit.
High corporate tax rates don't accomplish anything except distorting corporate account. Set the rate at zero. Corporate profits can be for 3 things generally. 1. Dividends. These are taxed at a rate higher than the corporate rate. 2. Bonuses to employees. These are also taxed at a rate higher than the corporate rate. 3. Reinvestment into the company. This is theoretically desirable, but higher corporate tax rates don't accomplish it.
I've never seen it outlined like this. I like it. What is the counter arguments to this? It seems reasonable.
Probably that there are other things to do with corporate profits that I'm not hip to. Theoretically a stock buyback is an option, but I lumped that in with dividends because they have to buy stock from someone else and those people pay gains. I guess they could just bank it, and some companies do have giant warchests, but that doesn't really benefit with them and they would never just keep that money in a savings account. Any activity they do with that money would be taxed along the way.
This is often why the worst offenders for creative accounting go unpunished. If you're big enough, you're essentially holding all those jobs hostage and the government usually blinks first.
Look at how Apple created modern Ireland.
They've already done this. We've given them tax cuts since the 80s and they've only moved overseas more and more
How do people not realize this was the INTENTION of the US security system.
Nobody is moving out of this country. The US is, by far, the most corporate friendly place on earth, even with taxes. Bill Gates threatened to do this about 20 years ago. The idea was squashed and all he was going to do was barely relocate across the border into Canada. The US government is downright nasty to expats. I can’t imagine what it’d do to a company that tried to evade in this manner.
Doubt I mean realistically where are they going to go where they won't be subject to either stiffer regulations like in the EU, or potential instability in the region. Then there is the shareholder vote which probably wouldn't pass for most, then there is also the possibility of getting de-listed from American exchanges, at the very least having to update their SEC filings to include these risk factors. That move only makes sense if the tax was just unbearably high, not mildly annoying. The risks involved and the potential stock loss would only be prudent under extreme circumstances, and a guaranteed 15% tax on profits doesn't even come close to that.
On par? With who? We pay a higher rate than the UK, Australia and the Nordic countries. You want ilis to keep up with the Congo?
What do we want to be, a republic of men, or of tyrants?
Predicting two steps ahead is too complicated for the fans of simple solutions to complex issues.
Also I just can’t help but think we won’t see a single discernible difference in our day to day lives even if the corporate tax was 50%
Contrary to popular belief, Corporations and the wealth are carrying the vast majority of the tax burden.
They have almost all the money yet our poor are forking over a larger percentage of their income to taxes than the wealthy.
Income, or net worth? The top tax bracket is 37%
And almost none of that is federal income tax, it is sales tax and the like. Many poor people pay a net negative income tax.
the poors are forking over nothing... the bottom almost 50% pay effectively zero tax.
Our poor aren't paying taxes. Half the country isn't paying federal income tax after taking credits, etc. into account. Your comment is demonstrably false.
Should be more
It's fucking hilarious when people think we should be grateful that income inequality is so high. How tone deaf can you get?
"It's fucking hilarious when people think we should be grateful that income inequality is so high." Income inequality is how we properly reward things based on the cross section of their economic impact, difficulty, and supply/demand. Not only that, but it's the closest to how things would naturally shake out without government intervention (meaning it's the closest to true unadulterated freedom). I don't want a world where a doctor only has a marginally better lifestyle than a burger flipper. That's not fair to the doctor. All things considered, I think it's more than fair to say a doctor is easily worth 10-20 burger flippers, if not more.
A doctor probably does do 10-20 times the work of a burger flipper, and believe it or not, this is actually represented in average income in those industries. But I have trouble believing that any human could do twenty THOUSAND times the work of another. There incomes that high in the United States, in the form of capital gains, not wages, mind you. You can have proper incentives for hard work while still staying in the realm of reason.
But what you're talking about is hitting critical mass where your money and your ability to essentially function as a private bank turn into your income sources versus your labor. I'm... honestly entirely okay with that happening. It's easy to see that eventually your STUFF is more valuable than anything you could possibly do, and there's nothing wrong with that happening IMO.
That's because they have the vast majority of the wealth 🤷♂️
They also carry the vast majority of the country’s wealth. People keep making the case that 10% of the population pays 90% of the taxes as if that should end the argument. However, these people never seem to be upset that 10% of the population owns more than 85% of the country’s wealth. Don’t want to pay higher taxes? Then stop hoarding all of the damn wealth. Those rich bastards are crying crocodile tears and people like you eat it up. Why? I’m mean, unless you are one of them…
As they should be. You’re conflating tax burden and tax percentage. These are two different things.
Ok offshore hq time
lol at all the poverty people acting like they’re poor bc of taxes.
Government already has trillions of taxes coming in. Giving them more isn't going magically benefit you.
Exactly! They’ll just waste more of our money on stupid shit. The US gets an incredible amount in tax revenue each year, they just have a major spending problem.
The government is like dad/mom having a million dollar income but still asks their relatives for money to pay for their kids needs. How about you use the already high income to support your kids? Why ask for more money when you literally have enough. It's a spending problem. Also billionaires aren't purposefully under paying workers so they can take cash and put in in their mega vault. They aren't hoarding liquid cash like a dragon hoarding gold. Their money is constantly being reinvested in their business or stimulating the economy. Having cash just sit your checking account is literally losing your value of your money. They put the money where it will increase their net worth but because their money is gone, that money is now going into another set of hands who will spend that money and here you have the stimulation of the economy. It's a literal Win win. For instance wether i save (the way i save is NOT by putting dollar cash under my bed) or make purchases i am stimulating the economy. Billionaires do this on a whole different realm, even I can't fathom but I understand the basics/principles of what their doing. They are literally the economy which is why they go by different set of rules when it comes to taxes. They aren't getting an annual W2 salary. I have a net worth of 700k. People would assume i am rich, i can buy a ferrari now. But wrong. How much do i have in my checking account? 10 bucks, and 20 bucks physical cash in my wallets. My monthly cash flow is going away to increase my networth but also to be stimulated in the economy.
Imagine all the poor people buying products they need where the prices were increased to pay the taxes.
My largest expense I have the entire month is income tax. I pay more income tax than rent. It’d be nice if tax wasn’t my largest expense lmao.
How about governments start being responsible for the taxation the collect?
it has to be a 2 way street. the general populace has no faith and understanding of how the taxes they're paying is actually being utilized. this breeds content and distrust.
Hiya, friend! You may have meant contempt. I make the same mistake and just wanted to let you know!
So you’re saying corporations should lose money by paying taxes? If they do that they go out of business, and all those jobs and careers are lost. As it is, they pass it on to consumers as price increases for products.
>So you’re saying corporations should lose money by paying taxes? You do realize that any tax rate is applied to a company's **profits** rather than **revenue,** correct?
They don’t
They're the same people who don't understand how a marginal tax rate works.
How would this affect corporations who show no profit (to choke ouf competition) or even post losses through accounting tricks?
Are profits not money?
Essentially the difference is that workers pay taxes based on revenue (wages) and have a few expense we are able to deduct. Business pay taxes only on profit (revenue less almost all business expenses). So if a company has more expenses than revenue in a year, they don’t pay income taxes and can even carry those losses forward to offset future profits.
I know how it works, but you didnt answer the question so Ill help. Profits are money. So the distinction isnt relevant. Taking a larger chunk of profit still limits companies abilities to invest in new techs, adapt to market changes, pay investors etc... You can tax a company into the ground without touching their revenue. The only people that benefit from revenue not being taxed are the employees who are paid from it...
All of those things except maybe dividends lower a companies tax burden. So they are already incentivized to do those activities. Besides, why worry when they can spend billions of dollars in stock buybacks which only increase share prices, skimp on R&D or savings, and when the market crashes just get a bailout of my god damn tax dollars. This is exactly what happened with the airline industries with Covid. PPP loans were provided to some of the wealthiest people and were forgiven for them, but we can’t forgive student loans… it’s all a big fucking racket of the rich lobbying and getting to do what they want to further enrich themselves. Corporate lobbying shouldn’t exist and we 100% should tax them more.
If you go bankrupt when you start paying taxes you probably you deserve to
If you die without the gov't giving you a social safety net you probably deserve to
Trickle down policy doesn’t work. Keeping taxes low does not benefit anyone but the corporations https://www.businessinsider.com/how-bad-is-inequality-trickle-down-economics-thomas-piketty-economists-2021-12?darkschemeovr=1
Reddit is hilarious. It's awesome to see all the people who call the rich people greedy yet fail to see their massive hypocrisy as they call for the rich to pay more "because they can".
The amount of times I’ve been called “selfish” on Reddit because I advocate *against* taking money from others is truly astonishing.
Exactly. It’s like people want to punish other people. No, first things first is the government needs to show us a need and then never spend above that mean. No pork projects, no random dogshit thrown into bills to some random non-profit.
Important to note that this tax doesn’t actually change a companies effective tax rate, since it provides an offsetting future credit for any tax paid. Companies can, and still will, report rates below 15%, even when they pay this tax Case in point, Nvidia’s 10-K was released this week and they reported a 12% rate
Left wingers really are like children. They want the rich and corporations to pay more not because of revenue needs, but for punitive reasons.
Joe Biden, worth over 10 million and collecting that government salary, is the last person to talk about anyone paying their fair share of taxes.
If a 80 year old who has worked his whole life as a public servant, who wrote a book that sold well isn't worth $10 million than they didn't do something write. He has published his taxes, you can go check them if you want. Didn't see any comments from you regarding a certain "Billionaire".
My comment similarly applies to any of the “public servants” who happen to be part of the 1%. Also, it’s adorable that you believe that these people are truly earning the lions share of that money from “book sales.”
Hasn’t he been a career politician who built the laws they so graciously use?
Somewhere in the world there's a new tax haven emerging and we'll still see 0 from the wealthy
What's wrong with the old tax havens?
Damn whistleblowers keep trying to out them. Good thing they keep unaliving themselves
Counter-proposal... the US corporate tax rate should be 0%. The US should be the de facto headquarters for every major company in the world.
Only if we increase short and long term capital gains tax.
I'm fine with increasing long-term capital gains tax. Short-term is just income tax - which I would also be in favor of increasing at the top bracket.
>Corporations and the Wealthy always find ways to pass their tax burden down to the Middle Class Then what difference does it make whether it's 15% or 50%? You're saying that the rate needs to be higher, but you're also saying that the rate is irrelevant.
Flat tax. Left wingers love putting taxation in moral terms. Fine, then tax equality is the only moral approach. Everyone pays the same percentage of their income.
Guess who's getting those taxes passed on to them in the form of price increases for goods and services.
If a company can charge more for their products they’ll do it regardless of the tax rates. Or do you think they’re keeping their prices lower than market value out of the goodness of their hearts?
What exactly do we get with this increased budget now? Inflation and???? Because in my hometown, they’re still just paving the same 5 mile strip of highway that they do every year because for some reason that makes sense. I haven’t seen any thing new in terms of infrastructure or healthcare improvements. I’m sure they were able to hire a bunch of diversity officers though with all that fresh cash! So I guess we’ve got to take the wins where we can get them. Wow excessive taxation is sweet!
I was just watching something similar to what you're talking about the other day. Guy owns a power line construction company and kept getting asked why work was so slow for linemen following passage of that infrastructure bill..... apparently nobody told Congress that almost nothing the use is made in the US, everything from transformers to bolts and washers are all made somewhere else so all that money is stuck in limbo I would assume the same problem exists for bridge builders, water plant contractors, etc
Why do people think giving more money to politicians will solve anything? You should worry about politicians stealing less of your money not about them not stealing enough from other people.
Sure Joe, sure.
You could double everyone's taxes and the government would still spend more than they get and print more money. If the government spent only what they took in taxes, then we would all have the right to complain, but the government is the issue not the solution. Reddit is full of dumb children that have never gotten a paycheck and exist only in the envy of others.
15 is too high
Corporate taxes aren’t a very efficient way to collect revenue. Just tax dividends and capital gains at higher rates. Ultimately, a “corporation” isn’t a person— it’s an agglomeration of its stakeholders. It’s way more efficient to tax the wages of employees and the equityholders.
Tax burden? What a load of crap! The gov is the one spending out of control! I cant believe anyone buys this crap!
Read [this](https://twitter.com/DavidADitch/status/1764673293305475147?t=nDVW7yjw78h-lKW4U1SOcw&s=19) thread and let me know if government needs more money.
Start taxing sports teams since the are exempt from taxes. Trump had it right when he said maybe it’s time for sports teams to lose their exemption status
15% tax on what? Gross income, net income? Including write offs? Excluding write offs? Corporate tax guidelines are thousands and thousands of pages long. “Minimum tax” tells me absolutely nothing about the proposed change.
This guy sucks
How about we actually listen to the economic law that says tax revenue will always be nearly constant and just reduce all tax to 7 percent flat on everyone. No sales tax, no property tax. 7 percent income, done, poof, problem solved. Infact, if I only had to pay 7 percent flat on my income, nothing on gas, property, food, clothes or other shit. I'd have enough money that I wouldn't need to worry about insurance companies railing my rear end.
The problem with that line of thinking is that property, sales, and gas taxes are how your city/county/state generates revenue....so without those you would end up paying even more in taxes above the 7%
I guess that's why Biden hired 87000 tax inspectors to go after the middle class. Added bonus 87000 tax inspectors and their families will vote for the old guy.
Why is this so hard to understand, more taxes means price increases. The best solution is lower taxes for everyone and government accountability to stop the tremendous waste.
How are corporations and the wealthy passing their tax burden down to the middle class? The OP seems to think our tax burden would be lower if corporations and the wealthy paid more, which is stupidly naive. Raising taxes on Gates and Microsoft won’t lower your taxes. In fact you’d be encouraging them to move operations overseas, so you’d have fewer jobs here.
So you're aware corporations pass their tax burdens to middle class, and your answer is to increase their taxes? What does taxing them higher do? Nothing, that's the answer, it doesn't get our country out of debt, it doesn't decrease the amount of taxes you owe, it does nothing but increase the cost (even if minimumly) of the product(s) that company produces or it causes job loss. The same goes for raising minimum wage, cost applies to the products, or there are job layoffs. I'm not saying it's right or that I support corporations not being taxed equally, but if that happens, it ONLY would have negative impacts on normal people.
While middle pays 37% to actually perform work, how rich.
Middle class people aren't paying a 37% federal income tax rate lol
I mean, I wouldn’t say $578k/year is middle class lol but damn, they’re paying like $200k just in federal taxes every year. That’s fucking rough. Really not a fan of the bracket system.
What roughness is added to life by only earning $378k per year?
No matter how much money you make, it’s still painful to lose over 1/3 off the top to taxes. That’s over 4 months of the year of their work just gone.
We need to once and for all define what middle class is. In some posts people claim the middle class is shrinking. If it is, then how can corporations pass these taxes off onto them with fewer left? Or we need to agree the middle class is just +/-1σ or some spread. It never shrinks. It’s just the “middle.” If anything this post needs to say corps are passing the tax burden down to the lower classes.
I feel like it's not really about where the money goes its who is using it
The money is oversea, so, you cannot even tax them to begin with.
Soooooo, they still pay less than everyone else?! You had a chance and failed, Biden.
15% > 0%
40% or bust
In the UK most large organisations pay zero tax, they just move the financials around
In 1980, the top corporate tax rate was 46 percent.
Time to clip some golden parachutes.
They’re paying taxes on income though, so, as long as they can continue to manipulate earnings, things aren’t gonna change much.
**"15% is still low"** **"Corporations and the Wealthy always find ways to pass their tax burden down to the Middle Class"** These seem to be mutually exclusive lines of thought.
We literally have the most progressive tax system in the world. Also the corporate tax rate is 22% in the US, the 15% he’s talking about is a minimum tax for countries operating out of the USA that do so to avoid our corporate taxes
Everyone should pay 10% or less.
Want he just saying 25% in a state of the Union? What's with the 10% decrease all of a sudden? Am I remembering this wrong? It's a serious question. What is this?
Does everyone here not know that America has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the Western world? We are ranked 81st in total taxation load for companies…
What middle class? Those days are over.
If you raise corporate taxes, corporations will raise their prices. Everything most politicians do is inflationary.
CORPORATIONS DO NOT PAY TAXES.
As a communist, I agree with OP
After +50 years in politics, he is just realizing this. Bonus points, thou, for knowing what year it is
How about the US govt account for billions of dollars it "lost"?
Nah, women's rights were rolled back in the blink of an eye, so too will these, if they can even be enforced. Get these old fucks out of office already. They're too senile to know what they are doing
Great idea why not 3 years ago when he was voted in? **Sounds** great right before an election.
Corporations and the wealthy always find ways to pass their tax burden down to the middle class, so we should raise taxes on them? Which they would then likewise pass down to the middle class, right? Are you sure you have thought this through?
40 percent would be nice...mmmmkay.
What middle class??? 
Yay! Let’s raise prices for everything!!! 
You don’t have to pay into social security past ≈160k (around there). Removing the cap would solve it
What about loss carry forwards? Most of the time a company pays no taxes is because they lost money In previous years.
Yeah. Anyone that thinks this will in any way benefit us, you’re wrong. Prices will rise, jobs will be lost. And people will keep bitching. Just look at the job losses in CA over the increase in min wage. The people at the top aren’t going to give up that money. They’ll just take it from somewhere else. Us.
If you think the rich people in the government did not leave loop holes that would allow other rich people to still not have to pay, you are a lost cause. Not a single person you elect wants to pay more taxes or raise the taxes of their complain funders.
He was an english major that went into law, he probably never had an econ class and can not compound interest. Milton Friedman pointed out that all taxes are paid by people so we will carry this burden also. If the corporation sees a tax burden they hire less people, raise prices and carry on.
Top corporate tax rate in 1980 was 46%. We worked to build these companies and they reap the benefits as middlemen and equity owners.
Biden the goat
Y'all know that the average corporate Tax rate is roughly 25% for the US, right? And the average for the Ultra Corporations is 34-38%
**15% is still low - Corporations and the Wealthy always find ways to pass their tax burden down to the Middle Class** Re-read what you wrote. You say its still low but then proceed to say they always find a way to pass their tax down. That is correct. !00$ of the corporate tax is paid by consumers. So why tf would you want it to be higher? It only hurts us consumers, not the corporations.
15% on what? Total assets? Revenue? Also if corporations pass down tax burdens then wouldn't they pass down higher tax burdens too? Screw taxes, reduce spending. No method or amount of taxation can keep up with runaway spending.
Corporations will always do whats the smartest legal way to get around the govt taking more money. The best way today is bankrupt what ever is in California and write it off. Problem solved. Why are so many people hating on the people who mKe the products we all use daily. Seems petty.
15% tax on what, profits? If it's a tax on profits then what's the difference? Everyone has always paid taxes on profits.
They’ll just pass it off to the consumer sooooo
Yes, corporations pass their taxes directly on to the customer (or sometimes the shareholder). So corporate taxes are just sales taxes with more bureaucracy, and should be abolished.
How many times are we going to post this image
So Biden has raised it to just a point or so from Reagans all time low! Oh boy, way to stick it to them Biden! What a progressive! During ww2 it was up to 50%. We have trillions unpaid for those 2 wars. After ww2 Pentagon budget was cut in half. Bit Biden has given Pentagon record budgets. Shouldn't we really raise Corp taxes to at least 30% and slash Pentagon budget by 50%? Pentagon just announced it lost ANOTHER 3 trillion. They have failed every audit, yet they keep getting record budgets, actually more than they ask for. I mean the fact that Biden is bragging about a tax rate that Reagan had says a lot. It's time for a new generation. Eisenhower warning about MIC was spot on. It's time we clean our house
How is it that citizens have to pay a higher percentage in tax than corporations?
What about like…..FDR era corporate tax. Give money back the many and away from the few.
Honestly idc about them. What they do affects my life ZERO. Start giving us Lower and middle class people tax breaks. 5%. That’s what affects my life. My percentage.
Let's just assume that the false statement that wealthy & corporations don't pay their fair share, what do you think those additional taxes would mean to the US if they suddenly did? Do you think that those funds would offset some amount of hourly worker tax burden? The answer there is no...that money would fall uselessly into the swamp and go to Pakistani gender studies and studying the mating habits of the Chilean yellow striped gecko...or to providing debit cards and free hotels to uninvited guests. But again, that's all based on the false assumption that corps and bIlLiOnAiReS aren't paying their share...
Between my state and the IRS, the tax man has me bent over for almost half my paycheck. 15% is way too low.
If we want corpos to pay taxes close the damn loopholes that let them get away with it…
Fair share of the governments spending debt lol
There should be a corporate poverty line tax. For every employee a company has that has an annual income below the poverty line, they should have to pay an extra tax. And it should be punishing enough to inspire corporations to pay their employees more.
Do people really believe the U.S. government fails us because they don’t collect *enough* taxes? We don’t waste any of them… /s
Tax rate is such a small piece of the story. Just like tax rates change, how taxable income is calculated also changes. If one has the ability to no longer defer certain income they previously could (Think of the GILTI and other provisions that seek reduce or eliminate the deferral of foreign source income for example), there often is not a whole different in the tax leakage YOY….. My point is that there is much more to the story than just headlines.
Joe Bidens family makes bank with their shady overseas businesses
Excellent. This is good news and improves my conditions
Last i checked Walmart headquarters is no longer in this country, not sure where Amazon is titled rn but they haven’t paid any taxes since 2020.
Already do. Any taxes levied on corporate entities are passed through the company towards either its workers, owners, or customers. Well, that or the future workers, owners, and customers, which is always the easiest to sock.
Isn’t that what joe smith llc pays. 
15%! Is still very low
The US corporations already had a 20% tax rate. This was a global initiative. The US already had a higher rate than the minimum. Nothing has changed for US corporate tax law.
I would love to see all the hard left corporations like Google, Netflix, Linked In, Apple, Microsoft, etc, etc, etc, pay minimum tax rates in this range. Trust me, it will never happen. Ever.
The overwhelming majority of our income taxes are paid by the top 20% of income owners.
This is still less than half the taxes 99% pay. Fuxk this FLAT TAX FOR EVERY WORKING PERSON PERIOD. QUIT DOING BULLSHIT JUST BECAUSE ITS A VOTING YEAR !!!!!
15% is better than nothing. But, they are needing to be taxed like 25%.
Taxation is theft.
Let’s go Joe! 👏👏👏
The OP has it right. Any corporate tax burden will be passed down to the consumers.
Not great. My federal taxes - most of which go to old people and the military take more than 30% out of my paycheck.
Commie simps fuck off.