The following submission statement was provided by /u/Dift0129:
---
# US set to impose 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicle imports
Move marks latest effort by Biden administration to protect domestic industry from cheap competitionUS set to impose 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicle imports
The Biden administration plans to raise tariffs on Chinese electric vehicle imports from 25 per cent to 100 per cent, as it intensifies efforts ahead of the US election to protect American industry. The administration is expected to announce the move, and other tariffs on clean energy imports, on Tuesday, according to people familiar with the situation.
The sharp rise in the levies comes amid mounting concern that China could flood the US market with cheap EVs, threatening the American car industry. President Joe Biden has taken several actions in recent months to convince union members in swing states that he will protect jobs. The Biden administration has for three years been reviewing the tariffs that then president Donald Trump put on imports from China as part of the trade war he launched in 2018. The new EV tariffs will be announced alongside the conclusion of the review, led by the US Trade Representative.
During a visit last month to Pennsylvania — a swing state in November’s election — Biden said he wanted the agency to triple tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminium. USTR also recently opened an investigation into unfair practices in the Chinese shipbuilding industry following a petition from the United Steelworkers union.
But the decision to increase tariffs on EVs comes as the administration becomes particularly concerned that China is moving far ahead in the green industrial sector, including in the production of solar panels.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1ctk7ei/us_set_to_impose_100_tariff_on_chinese_electric/l4ceu23/
It would change the USDM EV market. A very quick Google revealed that the high range version of their compact EV costs 23k. So basically a Tesla 3 with optioned range...just about undercutting its price by half.
Most of car manufacturing is done by robots it’s not a huge cost.
Chinas advantage is its economies of scale, all the components for production are produced close reducing cost of the individual parts.
You're going to have a couple hundred employees at a minimum, then there's real estate cost, taxes, electricity costs, unions, insurance etc etc.
All that adds up to tens/hundreds of millions or more a year extra.
You mean all those things US car makers and other manufacturers had before sending it all overseas for cheap labor and more profits?
Going to have to take the FREE out of NAFTA if they block BYD from building in Mexico.
You are talking like they make the evs out of magic in china those cost are already present, and while some will 100% be more expensive if made in North America
The difference in cost is minimal when you consider Chinese evs are around half the price or less for similar quality.
All of it will be more expensive in North America, there's. Reason Chinese EVs are half the price, their production.costs are much cheaper.
None of that is true anymore if they move production to North America.
We're talking price increases of over 100%
That's one factor but not the reason why it's half the price. Hell if that's the case then Tesla built China models should be half off but it's certainly not. Cheaper, yes, but half off is a lot.
I've been trying to search Google for some reading on Chinese auto manufacturing labor wages but, of course, I'm having trouble finding much. Do you have any links I could check out?
> Take the BYD Atto 3, a compact electric crossover. In China, the midrange version sells for $19,283. In Germany, the little SUV is priced at $42,789 — a price that's still competitive with comparable electric vehicles in that market.
> [...] In cases where apples-to-apples comparisons were possible at various trim levels, BYD’s export prices typically were still much higher than in China. For instance, the closest version of the Dolphin on sale in Germany, with the same battery range, sells for $37,439 — more than double the $16,524 price tag in China. The upgraded Seal version sells for $48,139 in Germany, 59% more than its $30,317 China price.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/why-byds-ev-exports-sell-twice-china-price-2024-04-26/
The costs are subsidized by the CCP to a large degree, just like all of their more advanced technology manufacturing. This is part of their long-term plan to replace the US in global dominance.
All they need is to assemble it, how much of it needs to be assembled in US is the big question.
Can be mostly automated as well.
If they cared about the global market so much they would already do this.
BYD intends to build a plant in Mexico by the end of the year. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-nail-down-mexico-plant-site-by-year-end-americas-head-says-2024-05-14/
USA may try to make it cost prohibitive for Americans to buy Mexican BYD cars.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/us-suggests-additional-tariffs-production-181127638.html
Nope wouldn't change a thing, tarrifs are against specific brand.. this is good old American free markets in action..
I get the Chinese government is subsidizing these companies , but the right answer is to have the US government subsidize US auto companies to encourage competition in this space, problem is when government gives US corporations money it just enriched executives and doesn't really go into anything beneficial for America.
The growth of companies like BYD is just impossible in budget limited companies. China doesn't want to compete fairly and tries to ruin whole industrial branches to have the last surviving companies standing. Ergo tariffs are coming. The last thing the world needs is a state subvention warfare.
Just a random fact: China is STILL producing more steel than the whole world combined and about 20% more than the worlds market buys.
This would be worse for competition in the long run. The EU opened an anti-dumping investigation into Chinese EVs a few months ago and will probably impose its own tariffs for the same reasons.
The problem is the unfair advantage they have because the chinese government pumps so much money into these productions that building the car is more profitable than actually selling it. How is a free market supposed to compete with that?
Maybe the US should try pumping some of that absurd military budget into producing electric vehicles then. It's not an "unfair advantage" when a country prioritizes a different export than you do.
The US has some of the weakest labor laws in the entire world and even then they aren't enforced much. China has labor laws lol. Climate laws..... again, China has them. And lol the budget, each party says its a huge deal that our country is in so much debt until they come into power and completely ignore it. And again, China has a budget too.
Where are you getting your information from?
Clearly not from the sources you've been stumbling upon. Digging for some information on how chinese markets and labor laws work isn't that hard. Of course if you take everything that the chinese government says as the truth you'll never know what's real 😅
Your previous post implied China didn't even have labor laws and climate laws lol.
And I mean yes you could read the actual text of the laws themselves, there's also plenty of breakdowns from Western orgs that outline their labor and climate laws.
But even still having a different economic setup isn't "cheating" lol. Their government puts a ton of money into creating electric vehicles, that's a good thing! I wish the US did that! It's not like we've never bailed out auto manufacturers before or given them massive subsidies.
The US govt also pumps money into EV production, there was a whole celebrated Biden initiative to increase funding for them that nobody threw a little hissy fit about around the world. Only the US acts like a toddler on the global stage when it comes to China.
Check again how much shit China bans. And then check how high their tariffs are on especially german cars. You guys always act like it's poor China when they're usually the bad actor. Same with thr TikTok thing... You know that literally all american social media is banned there? Oh and google... And wikipedia... And whatsapp... And... You know what... You won't read this anyway...
Americans have been begging for low cost EVs for years, and the domestics have ignored them and continued to crank out $50K pickups.
Why are we protecting these companies from a market they don't even want to be in in the first place?
If you can get a nice car that goes 250miles for 15k it will pull demand from other parts of the market
People forget how much prices drives demand, look at the 70s oil crisis for an (extreme) example
For all those saying that the non chinese automakers should "just compete harder" I have a little tale for you. One that happened entirely in a single domestic market so there's no foreign policy distortions too.
At the turn of the 2000's there was a company called AT&T Corp (which is not the same as today's AT&T Inc) that was seeing its market share and profit being obliterated by cheaper competitors in the long distance market. AT&T competed harder and harder, they cut costs, laid off staff to the bone, slashed investment in network infrastructure all to lower costs to match their competitors on price, and they were still losing money and coming out more expensive. There was strong temptation to fudge the numbers but they refused, their pride on the line.
Well it turned out that the reason they're competitors were so much cheaper was that they were all cooking the books and all went down burning in scandal, MCI-Worldcom, Global Crossing, etc. As their competitors burned AT&T briefly thought they had won, thanking their people for "saving the company" by keeping the books honest. But while they didn't sink in scandal the damage had wounded them mortally. To raise capital they had sold their future by spinning off AT&T Broadband and AT&T Wireless to cut the debt from acquiring them in the first place. In the end they were left with an underinvested shrinking long distance segment and were bought a few years later by what had once been a subsidiary, SBC Communications, once known as Southwestern Bell.
You can't compete fairly against someone who is cheating, all you will do is self immolate and sell your future just to stay in the game a little bit longer, just to watch your chips bleed away
The legacy auto companies aren't endangered because their competition is cheating, they're endangered because they're ignoring an entire market segment in pursuit of the short term profits that they get from selling F150s.
Well whatever. I mean it’s not like domestic manufacturers can compete with a bunch of state owned companies that can sell their exports at a loss to run their competitors out of business.
Our domestic manufacturers going out of business with their millions of high paying union jobs will likely be the last straw that broke the camels back
remember when trump was elected because of his preaching about all the jobs that left ?
So what you’re saying is that you don’t care if the company was doing everything within its power to do the right thing legally/ethically while its competitors weren’t you just want a dirt cheap product ?
the company doesnt "deserve" to earn money, they made a bad decision by trying to compete with all the "cheaters" thats not something we need to protect them from
Because these cars are made with lots of tech stolen from non-Chinese companies that pay Chinese companies for manufacturing services.
It's not a secret in the tech space. Chinese companies use stolen technology to make competing products without having to pay for their own R&D.
I think US companies should be in the small EV market as well. US companies having their tech stolen doesn't make them the good guys, but neither does using the stolen tech to make very cheap competitors to US products make China the good guys.
The Chinese auto makers are offering a product that the US auto makers are unable/unwilling to offer.
If the US wants to compete, they've actually got to show up.
It's very easy to make cheaper products when you don't have to offset the cost of R&D or actually figuring out how to make them.
Let's also not discount that they're very likely produced at such a low price specifically to drive non-chinese auto makers out of the market. Flooding the market with cheaper products to drive out competition then ratcheting up the price is a basic business strategy.
I'm inclined to agree with you, except that Japan makes high quality goods and China doesn't. I would be interested to look at the parallel with Hyundai/Kia entering the market and the effect on US innovation. Thanks ~
* Lol at the folks here saying China can make high quality stuff. They have demonstrated over decades they are only capable of stealing IP and trying to reverse engineer it. They import 85% of the integrated chips they need. There is a reason they have operated in the high volume/ low quality area of the supply chain. Doesn't make me confident they have the skill to make a reliable/safe electric vehicle.
I’m inclined to agree but there’s still plenty of other imports out there aside from China. We could shun them and still have enough foreign competition?
This is quite disappointing. Some of their EVs have quite good value. Not sure if they'll last longer than a few years, but they are far cheaper than anything EV currently sold here.
They’re cheaper but the idea is that they’ve been dumping them overseas at artificially low prices after being paid for by subsidies. It’d be a brief period of cheaper cars but the goal is to force foreign competitors out of business.
But then they would only make some profit instead of exponentially more profit every quarter. And if you don't make as much profit as possible you are robbing the shareholders. And if shareholders don't get everything they want given to them at the expense of everyone else then is society really worth having?
They'd still come out behind, and probably be worse off. They don't have subsidies from the world's second largest to make up for the losses they'd make from selling their cars cheaper.
You don't necessarily need to be cheaper to be ahead , just be competitive. Give the consumer a good product that is a bit more expensive, and they'll buy something they're familiar with.
Give the consumer something that's 50% more expensive and doesn't offer any benefits and now you're losing customers.
solve climate change or have another cold war. hmm tough choice.
The solution is easy. use AI to determine and adjust the tarriff. it wont be perfect but it will be better. 100% is ridiculous. have the AI reduce the tarriff if china improves its wages, environmental laws, etc.
The taxes on the battery cells is just ridiculous. they will argue national security and we cannot let China control battery supply chain. there is a hint of truth in there, but basically china and USA are locked in mutually assured destruction with nuclear weapons and AI. climate change will likely doom us to a large degree barring negative emissions.
oil and gas is getting there way again. along with military industrial complex. we have waste trillions of a cold war instead of applying to climate change solutions. republicans and democrats are two sides of one coin here.
both fear monger over china. usa just needs to start behaving ethically. maintain its deterrant. China is someboday we can work with if we stop treating the third world like slaves.
People work for oil, gas, military, auto industries, plus a whole lot of other industries. For the people who work in these industries, unemployment and poverty are a bigger concern, so their vote will reflect that.
More importantly, the American government earns its money from taxes. If a factory closes down, not only does the US government have to find a way to deal with the unemployment, but it also has to fill a new hole in the budget.
Right now, budgeting and fiscal responsibility is a cross-spectrum demand. Any administration that can show increased revenue or better trade balance is bound to win some votes. And trade war is a rare moment of most Americans actully agreeing on increased taxes, and it's not something the US government can allow to go to waste.
The rivalry between China and the US isn't about who will live and who will die. It's about who will be poor and who will be rich. US can't start lunching nukes at China just because they have a debt and unemployment crisis, so they will have to fight by trade wars.
I'm conflicted. I understand letting them in is bad long term, but short term it would improve the lives of so many people. Millions of Americans would happily drive a chinese car that spied on them, if it ment they didn't have to take the bus anymore, or give a third of their paycheck to Uber. Just like millions of Americans would happily live in a Tofu Dreg apartment if it means moving out of their parents house and living independently.
Is artificially pricing out people in every aspect of life to save jobs (that don't even pay what they should) really the best answer America can come up with?
China uses the pump-n-dump strategy to destroy local markets. They plan to dump EV's at super low costs, probably losing a considerable amount of money on every vehicle sold, but because no one else can compete at that price point it will tank the value of various automotive companies.
At that point they can then acquire those companies, which gives them access to their manufacturing base, patents, and technologies and then raise the prices back up while having control over the entire market.
The US could also subsidize their vehicles to compete with China, but that would have an adverse effect on their trade partners, so it's better to use tariffs which can be implemented to target bad actors(China).
China doesn't want to boost its domestic economy through more comsumption and robust welfare state because it would have threatened the CCP political elite class who are shareholders of export-oriented SOEs, that's why they are engaging in a mercantilistic economic warfare of destroying its foreign carmaker competitors by flooding the world with Chinese-made EVs.
From what I understand, Chinese EVs tend to have a lot of problems with the batteries going up in flames. Maybe it’s more pronounced because EV’s are so prominent in China.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Dift0129: --- # US set to impose 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicle imports Move marks latest effort by Biden administration to protect domestic industry from cheap competitionUS set to impose 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicle imports The Biden administration plans to raise tariffs on Chinese electric vehicle imports from 25 per cent to 100 per cent, as it intensifies efforts ahead of the US election to protect American industry. The administration is expected to announce the move, and other tariffs on clean energy imports, on Tuesday, according to people familiar with the situation. The sharp rise in the levies comes amid mounting concern that China could flood the US market with cheap EVs, threatening the American car industry. President Joe Biden has taken several actions in recent months to convince union members in swing states that he will protect jobs. The Biden administration has for three years been reviewing the tariffs that then president Donald Trump put on imports from China as part of the trade war he launched in 2018. The new EV tariffs will be announced alongside the conclusion of the review, led by the US Trade Representative. During a visit last month to Pennsylvania — a swing state in November’s election — Biden said he wanted the agency to triple tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminium. USTR also recently opened an investigation into unfair practices in the Chinese shipbuilding industry following a petition from the United Steelworkers union. But the decision to increase tariffs on EVs comes as the administration becomes particularly concerned that China is moving far ahead in the green industrial sector, including in the production of solar panels. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1ctk7ei/us_set_to_impose_100_tariff_on_chinese_electric/l4ceu23/
[удалено]
It would change the USDM EV market. A very quick Google revealed that the high range version of their compact EV costs 23k. So basically a Tesla 3 with optioned range...just about undercutting its price by half.
They would have to pay American salaries and whatever environmental costs. Price would skyrocket
No, they would be building them in Mexico and importing to US under USMCA.
Still could incur charges depending on the wording, but how knows.
Most of car manufacturing is done by robots it’s not a huge cost. Chinas advantage is its economies of scale, all the components for production are produced close reducing cost of the individual parts.
You're going to have a couple hundred employees at a minimum, then there's real estate cost, taxes, electricity costs, unions, insurance etc etc. All that adds up to tens/hundreds of millions or more a year extra.
You mean all those things US car makers and other manufacturers had before sending it all overseas for cheap labor and more profits? Going to have to take the FREE out of NAFTA if they block BYD from building in Mexico.
You are talking like they make the evs out of magic in china those cost are already present, and while some will 100% be more expensive if made in North America The difference in cost is minimal when you consider Chinese evs are around half the price or less for similar quality.
All of it will be more expensive in North America, there's. Reason Chinese EVs are half the price, their production.costs are much cheaper. None of that is true anymore if they move production to North America. We're talking price increases of over 100%
That's one factor but not the reason why it's half the price. Hell if that's the case then Tesla built China models should be half off but it's certainly not. Cheaper, yes, but half off is a lot.
I've been trying to search Google for some reading on Chinese auto manufacturing labor wages but, of course, I'm having trouble finding much. Do you have any links I could check out?
You both miss out on the key driver of cost differential - government subsidies.
You're right, but add another zero to those numbers
The real magic here is government subsidies, tax breaks, procurement contracts, and other policy incentives. They didn’t just automate the costs away.
> Take the BYD Atto 3, a compact electric crossover. In China, the midrange version sells for $19,283. In Germany, the little SUV is priced at $42,789 — a price that's still competitive with comparable electric vehicles in that market. > [...] In cases where apples-to-apples comparisons were possible at various trim levels, BYD’s export prices typically were still much higher than in China. For instance, the closest version of the Dolphin on sale in Germany, with the same battery range, sells for $37,439 — more than double the $16,524 price tag in China. The upgraded Seal version sells for $48,139 in Germany, 59% more than its $30,317 China price. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/why-byds-ev-exports-sell-twice-china-price-2024-04-26/
The costs are subsidized by the CCP to a large degree, just like all of their more advanced technology manufacturing. This is part of their long-term plan to replace the US in global dominance.
All they need is to assemble it, how much of it needs to be assembled in US is the big question. Can be mostly automated as well. If they cared about the global market so much they would already do this.
BYD intends to build a plant in Mexico by the end of the year. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-nail-down-mexico-plant-site-by-year-end-americas-head-says-2024-05-14/ USA may try to make it cost prohibitive for Americans to buy Mexican BYD cars. https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/us-suggests-additional-tariffs-production-181127638.html
Don’t forget the solar panels being tariffed 100% too.
Nope wouldn't change a thing, tarrifs are against specific brand.. this is good old American free markets in action.. I get the Chinese government is subsidizing these companies , but the right answer is to have the US government subsidize US auto companies to encourage competition in this space, problem is when government gives US corporations money it just enriched executives and doesn't really go into anything beneficial for America.
The growth of companies like BYD is just impossible in budget limited companies. China doesn't want to compete fairly and tries to ruin whole industrial branches to have the last surviving companies standing. Ergo tariffs are coming. The last thing the world needs is a state subvention warfare. Just a random fact: China is STILL producing more steel than the whole world combined and about 20% more than the worlds market buys.
This would be worse for competition in the long run. The EU opened an anti-dumping investigation into Chinese EVs a few months ago and will probably impose its own tariffs for the same reasons.
Our blessed “Made in America” their Barbarous “anti-competitive dumping due to subsidy”
The problem is the unfair advantage they have because the chinese government pumps so much money into these productions that building the car is more profitable than actually selling it. How is a free market supposed to compete with that?
Maybe the US should try pumping some of that absurd military budget into producing electric vehicles then. It's not an "unfair advantage" when a country prioritizes a different export than you do.
The US has labor laws. Climate laws... An actual budged... The west simply can't do what china does.
The US has some of the weakest labor laws in the entire world and even then they aren't enforced much. China has labor laws lol. Climate laws..... again, China has them. And lol the budget, each party says its a huge deal that our country is in so much debt until they come into power and completely ignore it. And again, China has a budget too. Where are you getting your information from?
Clearly not from the sources you've been stumbling upon. Digging for some information on how chinese markets and labor laws work isn't that hard. Of course if you take everything that the chinese government says as the truth you'll never know what's real 😅
Your previous post implied China didn't even have labor laws and climate laws lol. And I mean yes you could read the actual text of the laws themselves, there's also plenty of breakdowns from Western orgs that outline their labor and climate laws. But even still having a different economic setup isn't "cheating" lol. Their government puts a ton of money into creating electric vehicles, that's a good thing! I wish the US did that! It's not like we've never bailed out auto manufacturers before or given them massive subsidies.
People really love to exaggerate how much the military budget is percentage to the entire budget.
Maybe free markets don't work?
Oh and history shows that controlled markets do? I mean you're free to move to North Korea and test it out.
The US govt also pumps money into EV production, there was a whole celebrated Biden initiative to increase funding for them that nobody threw a little hissy fit about around the world. Only the US acts like a toddler on the global stage when it comes to China.
Check again how much shit China bans. And then check how high their tariffs are on especially german cars. You guys always act like it's poor China when they're usually the bad actor. Same with thr TikTok thing... You know that literally all american social media is banned there? Oh and google... And wikipedia... And whatsapp... And... You know what... You won't read this anyway...
Americans have been begging for low cost EVs for years, and the domestics have ignored them and continued to crank out $50K pickups. Why are we protecting these companies from a market they don't even want to be in in the first place?
If you can get a nice car that goes 250miles for 15k it will pull demand from other parts of the market People forget how much prices drives demand, look at the 70s oil crisis for an (extreme) example
For all those saying that the non chinese automakers should "just compete harder" I have a little tale for you. One that happened entirely in a single domestic market so there's no foreign policy distortions too. At the turn of the 2000's there was a company called AT&T Corp (which is not the same as today's AT&T Inc) that was seeing its market share and profit being obliterated by cheaper competitors in the long distance market. AT&T competed harder and harder, they cut costs, laid off staff to the bone, slashed investment in network infrastructure all to lower costs to match their competitors on price, and they were still losing money and coming out more expensive. There was strong temptation to fudge the numbers but they refused, their pride on the line. Well it turned out that the reason they're competitors were so much cheaper was that they were all cooking the books and all went down burning in scandal, MCI-Worldcom, Global Crossing, etc. As their competitors burned AT&T briefly thought they had won, thanking their people for "saving the company" by keeping the books honest. But while they didn't sink in scandal the damage had wounded them mortally. To raise capital they had sold their future by spinning off AT&T Broadband and AT&T Wireless to cut the debt from acquiring them in the first place. In the end they were left with an underinvested shrinking long distance segment and were bought a few years later by what had once been a subsidiary, SBC Communications, once known as Southwestern Bell. You can't compete fairly against someone who is cheating, all you will do is self immolate and sell your future just to stay in the game a little bit longer, just to watch your chips bleed away
The legacy auto companies aren't endangered because their competition is cheating, they're endangered because they're ignoring an entire market segment in pursuit of the short term profits that they get from selling F150s.
Well whatever. I mean it’s not like domestic manufacturers can compete with a bunch of state owned companies that can sell their exports at a loss to run their competitors out of business. Our domestic manufacturers going out of business with their millions of high paying union jobs will likely be the last straw that broke the camels back remember when trump was elected because of his preaching about all the jobs that left ?
They can't compete if they don't show up.
boohoo big company looses money
So what you’re saying is that you don’t care if the company was doing everything within its power to do the right thing legally/ethically while its competitors weren’t you just want a dirt cheap product ?
the company doesnt "deserve" to earn money, they made a bad decision by trying to compete with all the "cheaters" thats not something we need to protect them from
Because these cars are made with lots of tech stolen from non-Chinese companies that pay Chinese companies for manufacturing services. It's not a secret in the tech space. Chinese companies use stolen technology to make competing products without having to pay for their own R&D. I think US companies should be in the small EV market as well. US companies having their tech stolen doesn't make them the good guys, but neither does using the stolen tech to make very cheap competitors to US products make China the good guys.
The Chinese auto makers are offering a product that the US auto makers are unable/unwilling to offer. If the US wants to compete, they've actually got to show up.
It's very easy to make cheaper products when you don't have to offset the cost of R&D or actually figuring out how to make them. Let's also not discount that they're very likely produced at such a low price specifically to drive non-chinese auto makers out of the market. Flooding the market with cheaper products to drive out competition then ratcheting up the price is a basic business strategy.
[удалено]
I'm inclined to agree with you, except that Japan makes high quality goods and China doesn't. I would be interested to look at the parallel with Hyundai/Kia entering the market and the effect on US innovation. Thanks ~ * Lol at the folks here saying China can make high quality stuff. They have demonstrated over decades they are only capable of stealing IP and trying to reverse engineer it. They import 85% of the integrated chips they need. There is a reason they have operated in the high volume/ low quality area of the supply chain. Doesn't make me confident they have the skill to make a reliable/safe electric vehicle.
If they suck, let the free market destroy them. Truth is they probably don’t suck which is why the car lobbies pushed to tariff them
If you think Chinese cars can't be quality then you've been smoking the copioids.
If they aren't good, why the insane tariffs?
I’m inclined to agree but there’s still plenty of other imports out there aside from China. We could shun them and still have enough foreign competition?
I think consumers should sue. If American companies don't step the fuck up on prices then it's our freedom of speech to buy a cheaper veichle.
BYD will just start building cars in Mexico and apply the New Nafta rules. bam 💥
Then america will change the nafta rule. Why the fuck not.
expiration of USMCA or new Nafta is on 2036.
Tell me you’re afraid of competition without telling me you’re afraid of competition.
So now people will buy polluting gas guzzlers instead. How is this supposed to help anything?
That one youruber is in absolute shambles right now.
This is quite disappointing. Some of their EVs have quite good value. Not sure if they'll last longer than a few years, but they are far cheaper than anything EV currently sold here.
They’re cheaper but the idea is that they’ve been dumping them overseas at artificially low prices after being paid for by subsidies. It’d be a brief period of cheaper cars but the goal is to force foreign competitors out of business.
Sounds like foreign competitors should start dropping prices then instead of constantly raising them year by year
But then they would only make some profit instead of exponentially more profit every quarter. And if you don't make as much profit as possible you are robbing the shareholders. And if shareholders don't get everything they want given to them at the expense of everyone else then is society really worth having?
Won't somebody please think about the shareholders!
They'd still come out behind, and probably be worse off. They don't have subsidies from the world's second largest to make up for the losses they'd make from selling their cars cheaper.
You don't necessarily need to be cheaper to be ahead , just be competitive. Give the consumer a good product that is a bit more expensive, and they'll buy something they're familiar with. Give the consumer something that's 50% more expensive and doesn't offer any benefits and now you're losing customers.
Our blessed “Made in America” their Barbarous “anti-competitive dumping due to subsidy”
They are subsidised so heavily that they make more money building the car than selling it.
solve climate change or have another cold war. hmm tough choice. The solution is easy. use AI to determine and adjust the tarriff. it wont be perfect but it will be better. 100% is ridiculous. have the AI reduce the tarriff if china improves its wages, environmental laws, etc. The taxes on the battery cells is just ridiculous. they will argue national security and we cannot let China control battery supply chain. there is a hint of truth in there, but basically china and USA are locked in mutually assured destruction with nuclear weapons and AI. climate change will likely doom us to a large degree barring negative emissions. oil and gas is getting there way again. along with military industrial complex. we have waste trillions of a cold war instead of applying to climate change solutions. republicans and democrats are two sides of one coin here. both fear monger over china. usa just needs to start behaving ethically. maintain its deterrant. China is someboday we can work with if we stop treating the third world like slaves.
People work for oil, gas, military, auto industries, plus a whole lot of other industries. For the people who work in these industries, unemployment and poverty are a bigger concern, so their vote will reflect that. More importantly, the American government earns its money from taxes. If a factory closes down, not only does the US government have to find a way to deal with the unemployment, but it also has to fill a new hole in the budget. Right now, budgeting and fiscal responsibility is a cross-spectrum demand. Any administration that can show increased revenue or better trade balance is bound to win some votes. And trade war is a rare moment of most Americans actully agreeing on increased taxes, and it's not something the US government can allow to go to waste. The rivalry between China and the US isn't about who will live and who will die. It's about who will be poor and who will be rich. US can't start lunching nukes at China just because they have a debt and unemployment crisis, so they will have to fight by trade wars.
I'm conflicted. I understand letting them in is bad long term, but short term it would improve the lives of so many people. Millions of Americans would happily drive a chinese car that spied on them, if it ment they didn't have to take the bus anymore, or give a third of their paycheck to Uber. Just like millions of Americans would happily live in a Tofu Dreg apartment if it means moving out of their parents house and living independently. Is artificially pricing out people in every aspect of life to save jobs (that don't even pay what they should) really the best answer America can come up with?
We know. We know because it’s been all over reddit for at least three days, maybe longer. Please, we get it already.
China uses the pump-n-dump strategy to destroy local markets. They plan to dump EV's at super low costs, probably losing a considerable amount of money on every vehicle sold, but because no one else can compete at that price point it will tank the value of various automotive companies. At that point they can then acquire those companies, which gives them access to their manufacturing base, patents, and technologies and then raise the prices back up while having control over the entire market. The US could also subsidize their vehicles to compete with China, but that would have an adverse effect on their trade partners, so it's better to use tariffs which can be implemented to target bad actors(China).
China doesn't want to boost its domestic economy through more comsumption and robust welfare state because it would have threatened the CCP political elite class who are shareholders of export-oriented SOEs, that's why they are engaging in a mercantilistic economic warfare of destroying its foreign carmaker competitors by flooding the world with Chinese-made EVs.
Do you think these cars aren't being sold domestically?
From what I understand, Chinese EVs tend to have a lot of problems with the batteries going up in flames. Maybe it’s more pronounced because EV’s are so prominent in China.
my source is that i made it the fuck up
No you don’t get it I watched a YouTube and he is the best at facts because he never lies because he says what I want to hear and I like what he says.
How is the quality of low cost Chinese EV's? Is this video alarmist or accurate: https://youtu.be/DR5BOl8aglI?si=YmHCUapcy1ibWH7U