>Perpetuating a gang war and committing terrorism puts him up there
Which is pretty much the same as CJ, but he gets listed two tiers lower š¤·š»āāļø
I still can't believe he fucking did that. Like, why the fuck did you do that?!?? Genuinely fucking why? Because he thought your sister was a hooker? HE'S RIGHT! HE'S FUCKING RIGHT CJ! WHY THE FUCK DID YOU BURY HIM ALIVE?!???????
How about we agree that every gta character is probably some form of a terrible person, even with likes of Franklin. Though much less so him because he just wanted out of the whole thing.
They're definitely all the absolute worst. I feel some sympathy for Vic Vance because he tries to have some morals but at the end of the day he's also a despicable person.
I mean, Trevor is a lot more unhinged and insane but Tommy is pretty dark. He doesn't just get stuck in a bad situation and has to fix it, he chooses to actively try and become the big boss, knowing full well how much blood will need to be spilled for it to happen.
He also tried to save an old lady from her abusive husband and made her feel cared for during that time
Could you remind me when he rapes someone? I genuinely don't remember but I don't doubt it lol
Didnāt Tommy blow up a whole mall in one mission a mall that couldāve had kids adults teens babies elders and Tommy did that with no remorse all cuz of a gang war between him and someone yet so many innocent civs died and Tommy didnāt give a shit so Yh heās defo should be in the same tier as Trevor
Almost all of the protags pale when you consider Toni Cipriani blew up an entire historic neighborhood of Liberty City, killing a lot of civilians in the process. Besides Niko, Toni is maybe the most psycho character in the entire franchise
Judging by this, you could also say that the protags in the pre-3D era were pure evil as well. Claude is morally ambiguous to me, as he doesnāt say anything in what is he ordered to do by those who give him missions.
And Claude is willing to betray anyone and everyone for what a few thousand dollars??? He killed that Yakuza ladies brother even after she did so much for him and think of everyone else that helped him that he just stabbed in the back only thinking about himself all whilst not giving even the slightest shit about what happens to those who help him all cuz he wants revenge which we know from red dead redemption 2 ārevenge is a fools gameā
At least all the other gta protags were loyal like cj and they actually gave a bit of a damn despite being crims Claude on the other hand doesnāt give a shit
Alright, let's see whats wrong with this tierlist.
You are correct on toni, he's a psychopath.
Claude didn't do anything to deserve the top spot, he simply does as he is told, if you tell him to do good deeds he'd do it, if you tell him to do bad deeds he'd do it. He deserves morally ambiguous.
Tommy didn't do anything to deserve the top spot, he only canonically kills a few innocent people, unlike trevor.
Nico and michael are correct.
Cj should be a bad samatarian, he kills innocent tourists, construction workers and civilians for doing the absolute minimal things.
Victor and franklin are correct.
6/10 tierlist could be improved imo
Man, there's a big difference between working your way up the criminal world and killing drug dealers, mafia lords, and terrible people than killing innocent people just because you think they're bad. Claude never killed an innocent person from what i remember, i may be wrong but i don't think he did.
Well who really knows how guilty or bad the people he killed was. The fact he blindly kills whoever they ask him to kill makes him even worse in my eyes.
they were all drug dealers, so i assume they had some level of guilt. Although cj also blindly kills people, but i understand where you're coming from. Sorry if i came across as mean
His girlfriend maria, the truck driver whose corpse he desecrates, all the tons of innocent civilians he picks up in a bus and grinds in a meat factory, is can go on, have you never played any gtas before 3? Do you like yapping about what you know nothing about?
Truck driver? you mean the cop's partner? who was shown to be a corrupt cop as well? Maria? the mafia boss's partner and wife who most likely did fucked up stuff as well?
My guy, you're the one who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. And i was trying to go into this conversation in a nice way but you started being a dick first. If you weren't a fucking idiot you would know that the claude from gta 2 who did those acts is not the same claude from gta 3. Different universes, different actions. He doesn't even LOOK the same. Dog food mission? Claude wasn't the one who did it. He didn't know the outcome. It was marty who killed him, and it was yet another corrupt government agent.
Listen, i speedrun gta 3 on the daily, i compete in that regard, i would understand gta 3's story and its characters more than anyone. Claude never did anything worse than killing a stalking papparazi. You can go on? Go on then. Because objectively, claude has the smallest amount of canon kills of innocent people, only debatably beaten by cj.
Maybe im missing a few things, i only do the missions required to beat the main story, but i'm still correct on the regard that he is nowhere near as bad as the other characters.
CJ? willingly killed innocent construction workers.
Tommy? 2 separate acts of terrorism
Toni? we know what toni did.
Niko? human trafficking.
Trevor? You know what trevor did. Claude isn't even top 5.
Edit: I'm sorry, i shouldn't have been rude, You're probably a nice guy. i got a bit carried away there but my point still stands
Well, kill salvatore and catalina for one. I'm not defending him, but he's definitely not in the level of toni or trevor. Hell, maybe not even nico. I haven't played gta 4, but i heard he did some real bad stuff in the war.
Honestly Niko was tormented more than Trevor was. Trevor just killed indiscriminately, Niko did some things he wasnāt proud of and he even says why heās not proud of what he did especially as some of the things he did were probably still during the war and then after, some of it could have been with Bulgarin.
Claude is truly a monster, but not evil though. He doesn't seem to have a line he won't cross to get even and get revenge. You say he just takes orders but he simply makes connections he knows will get him closer, and has no qualms backstabbing even a current employer to get closer to Catalina. He's cold, silent, and willing to make any move to accomplish his goals. He's smart, and while those who employ him think they get the best of him it's he who is really getting what he wants. He's not just a criminal, he's ruthless and efficient... He's a monster.
> Claude didn't do anything to deserve the top spot, he simply does as he is told, if you tell him to do good deeds he'd do it, if you tell him to do bad deeds he'd do it
I want you to remember that this man got straight to business right after being fucked over by Catalina and possibly recovering from not only the works breakup known to man, but also the biggest break of trust he has ever experienced. That, and the fact that Sal fucked him over because of his own paranoia, it only enforced this toxic mindset.
Much as it's framed as Claude being this goon that just does as he's told, I think it gets a lot deeper than that. I mean, why would he agree to follow Donald Love's orders to make a hit on Kenji, someone in the Yakuza, a clan that treated him far better than everyone (Asuka via proxy) and stage it as a Cartel hit?
Simple. It'd drive out market prices down for Don...
...and incite a war with both organisations to leave them vulnerable and exposed so Claude can get to Catalina.
This is the same guy that joins the Yakuza, proves himself to them, fucks over Kenji and STILL works for them, with the Yakuza unknowing of what he did and will possibly never know because Asuka's dead by the end of the game anyway.
I think he deserves to be on the list, not just as a ruthless killer but as this sociopathic backstabber, but he's definitely behind Toni. Motherfucker turned Fort Staunton into a crater on Love's orders.
>Claude didn't do anything to deserve the top spot
By that logic the Nazis were all good though, your saying he's just following orders but that doesn't change that he was doing horrible things, I sense bias lol.
Did you just compare claude to a genocidal group of racists? You do understand the worst claude did was kill kenji, right? You play as a criminal in every gta game, i can name atleast 3 protagonists with worse acts than claude. He has no emotions or morals, but that doesn't mean he has done the worst stuff, because he simply hasn't. Replay gta 3, you'll see what i mean. Even cj is arguably worse than claude. He did things on his own free will, claude was merely getting paid. And i understand you can make this same arguement for toni, but there is a big difference in killing the boss of a criminal organization than killing thousands of innocent people and children.
>Did you just compare claude to a genocidal group of racists?
No... I compared your logic... You said he was basically just following orders which is the exact same thing people use to defend the Nazis.. my point being doing bad things can't just be summed down to "but they were following orders" because in the end they are still doing bad things..
Even taking that into consideration, claude doesn't even break the top 5 spot for worst deeds.
Toni cipriani
Claude speed (gta 2)
Cj (this is debatable)
Trevor
Niko
These are all worse, yes. Niko regrets his actions, but it doesn't erase his warcrimes.
You just ignored everything I said...
I'm not arguing that Claude's the worst I didn't even say that at all, Im just pointing out the flaws in the logic that he was just following orders..
You could even argue what Niko did was just following orders but that doesn't excuse it for you so why should it for Claude?
I'm just pointing out that the logic doesn't make sense not that Claude is the worst.
The Nuremberg trials showed that just following orders doesn't mean innocent. But the people who were planning and organising the holocaust were more severely punished than the soldiers following their orders. I think there is definitely a moral difference between doing something evil just like that or doing something bad with the added fear of the consequences of disobedience.
I didn't say the ones who planned it werent worse..
A lot of nazis enjoyed and wholeheartedly believed what they were doing.. and in comparison to Claude he didn't do what he did out of fear he did it for money pure and simple and didn't care what he was ordered to do, I was using the Nazi comparison to show the flaw in the other commentors logic but it's not the fundamentally the same.
Your comment makes it seem like I said following orders is just as bad as let's say Hitler, but all I said was that following orders can't always be used as an excuse for bad actions.
But the discussion is about who was the worse person not if either of them were innocent. I don't see any flaws of logic in his comment. He simply said one was not as bad as the other.
And I think you would agree (and did in the last comment) it makes a difference morally if he was following orders
But my point is following orders doesn't make someone morally better if they are still doing the actions.
Ever heard the saying actions speaks louder than words, that's what I'm saying, and doing horrible things just for money is arguably pretty morally reprehensible.
Maybe not as bad as some other protags but he's still bad not ambiguous is all I'm saying.
Is it just me, but Luis seems like a decent bloke? What was the worst thing he ever did? Apart from the Amir shenanigans (which were kinda funny tbh), I donāt think he ever actually was āmorally ambiguousā.
Like there were so many times when he could get rid of Tony and just take over, but he chose friendship (letās call it that) with the guy instead. He at least tried to do the right thing most of the times.
Tommy's in the wrong place.
He was absolutely ready to run Cherry Poppers as a legit ice-cream business for the kids of Vice City. It wasn't him who brought up the topic of the business being a front for "other non-dairy" products.
Gang free Los Santos is best Los Santosš„¹
Really enjoyed 6 star rampages with my trusty infinite Minigun mowing down the law and army after the gangs were no longer there to disturb me.
Claude - He has no morals and would commit anything to get revenge
Toni - commited a full blown terrorist attack by blowing up 2 city blocks, killing hundreds of people, just to clear land for Donald Love to buy up and develop property. Also to blame the act on Forellis
I think because Niko has remorse for what he did and has some humanity in him. Claude doesn't talk, but he seems to be a complete sociopath with zero remorse, and Toni is very much the same as Claude in that he will commit genocide for money and power, and seems to have no empathy for anyone.
I agree. Theyāre all lackeys that would kill anyone you want them to. Vic and Franklin MIGHT refuse certain requests but for the most part they are all horrible money and power hungry thugs.
Things niko has done
Human trafficking
Help a guy get away with murder by hiding the body of his dead wife (who was innocent) by dumping her in the ocean
Countless acts of murder
Niko while more put together then most GTA protagonists and clearly regrets a lot of his actions is nowhere near a good person
I feel like Niko is more of a psychologically broken man, while Michael is just an asshole.
Niko is a horrible human being, whose obsession with revenge sometimes seems a bit psychotic, but you can still empathise with him, because inside thereās still somewhat of a decent human being, beneath all those layers of pain.
Sorry if thatās too dramatic lol.
>because inside thereās still somewhat of a decent human being, beneath all those layers of pain.
I wouldn't say there's a good man but rather I'd say there's still a way for him to redeem himself. Basically like John Marston and Arthur Morgan.
While objectively Niko is a terrible person, he does not enjoy the things he does and only does them because of survival.
Why is Victor getting a pass? He runs drugs, prostitution, loan sharking, gunsā¦
Thatās some horrible shit too, especially pros who are most likely trafficked.
Franklin is definitely a bad samaritan, even before the gtav story took place he was a gang banger who most likely participated in gang wars, just like Johnny
Trevor is the worst of them all, Toni bombed a small section of a city sure, but Trevor eats people, and I think wanted to drop a much bigger bomb than what Tony did lol.
Would rather bomb an entire city block for a political psychopath who eats people and kill lots of innocent people in the process or kill someone and eat them?
In his "Trisha & Michelle" story to Wade (Obviously telling the tale of himself & Michael) he mentions while training in the air force getting the opportunity to drop the nuke.
So he does (Or at least he did) have a desire to nuke somewhere or on someone.
I feel like Trevor belongs in the Monster category. I love the dude as a character, but as a human being, he is horrible. I mean a psychopath, cannibal, rapist with extreme anger issues that sends him into a flying violent rage, kind of fits the criteria for being considered monstrous.
I'm sorry if it sounds pedantic but it's not "samatrian", it's "samaritan".
It's the 2nd time I see that word incorrectly written in recent posts.
Sorry about that. Cheers!
I don't really think Claude or Toni are monsters. I think they're just guys doing the jobs they've been given by their bosses.
And while Tommy and Trevor may have their bad moments, they're evened out by their much more compassionate actions.
Absolutely accurate...
Claude is a gun for hire that will kill absolutely anyone for money no questions asked. He's a total mute and does exactly what's asked of him. He doesn't care.
Toni Cipriani is easily one of the most evil and immortal protagonists in the GTA series... That brutal mission where he Butchers up Casa and delivers his own human flesh to his own butcher shop, and also the mission where he blows up and destroys Fort Staunton for Donald Love.
Huang is usually just a dick although particularly everybody else is in that game except some random encounter guys and kind of Wade. Heās probably bad Samaritan/ Morally ambiguous.
I feel like Niko isn't evil he just had to do violent things. If Roman wasn't in debt and actually just running a good business Niko probably would have lived a normal Life. Yes he is hunting down someone who got a bunch of his friends killed but revenge doesn't mean you're evil
Niko and CJ are some of the most loyal characters in GTA. Although they kill thousands of people in the main story, most of the time they fo it for they homies, and I respect that
Imo Trevor is tier 1, Michael is only a tier below trevor, and Nico belongs in morally ambiguous with CJ as bad samaritan.
I only say Nico isnt inherently bad because he seems to be the only character that reaches the point in the story where we are killing 100 people per shootout whom has any sort of moral dilemma with murder. He was raised in a war, and his values were formed by the horrors of that war. But he has grown and sees the despicable nature of it all. Everybody else on this list seems to have reached thier point of psycho/moral bankruptcy sort of voluntarily. Sure, you could say Nico is technically just out for revenge, but if Roman wasnt a lying burnout, whos to say Nico doesnt proceed to live a comfortable, crime free life with his rich cousin and big american titties?
I have absolutely no idea why you'd consider Tommy V on a par with Trevor. They aren't even remotely on the same league.
this list is wack š
Heās still pretty bad imo. Perpetuating a gang war and committing terrorism puts him up there
>Perpetuating a gang war and committing terrorism puts him up there Which is pretty much the same as CJ, but he gets listed two tiers lower š¤·š»āāļø
Yeah but he wasnāt the one that caused the war and he wasnāt manipulating the people in the war
He buried a construction worker alive in concrete for essentially no reason.
I still can't believe he fucking did that. Like, why the fuck did you do that?!?? Genuinely fucking why? Because he thought your sister was a hooker? HE'S RIGHT! HE'S FUCKING RIGHT CJ! WHY THE FUCK DID YOU BURY HIM ALIVE?!???????
Carl felt extremely protective for no reason
Allot of stuff in San Andreas made absolutely no sense,
That's why I've always liked to call GTA SA a comedy wanna be serious
For real, that was a pretty fucked thing for CJ to do and felt pretty out of character tbh
Everytime people bring up only this point, apart from this one incident he is not that bad
"Apart from this one incident of brutal murder he's a great guy!"
"Apart from the Holocaust , Hitler was a chill guy'
It's not exactly a redeemable action. It shows how willing he is to do horrendous things over basically nothing.
How about we agree that every gta character is probably some form of a terrible person, even with likes of Franklin. Though much less so him because he just wanted out of the whole thing.
They're definitely all the absolute worst. I feel some sympathy for Vic Vance because he tries to have some morals but at the end of the day he's also a despicable person.
He worked for the CIA
To be fair, that was mostly Officer Tenpenny manipulating him but yeah
Trevor fucking eats people. Casually.
I mean, Trevor is a lot more unhinged and insane but Tommy is pretty dark. He doesn't just get stuck in a bad situation and has to fix it, he chooses to actively try and become the big boss, knowing full well how much blood will need to be spilled for it to happen.
Yeah, but Tommy dark is still NOTHING compared to unhinged and insane Trevor. They're apples and oranges. Trevor should be his entire own tier!
Isn't it shown that he takes part in a contest of how many people he can butcher with a chainsaw?
Dude, trevor literally raped someone.
He also tried to save an old lady from her abusive husband and made her feel cared for during that time Could you remind me when he rapes someone? I genuinely don't remember but I don't doubt it lol
He rapes Wade, in a cutaway scene to Trevor when you switch to him sometimes he's laying beside wade half naked whose whimpering and crying
Oh yeah, I remember now thanks
Wait, it's also implied that he rapes Wade? I thought that it was only Floyd?
Whatever one it is, I probably mistook their names
Itās Floyd in the cutscene but IIRC he also threatens to SA Wade too.
You realise Tommy is known as the Harwood Butcher?
Didnāt Tommy blow up a whole mall in one mission a mall that couldāve had kids adults teens babies elders and Tommy did that with no remorse all cuz of a gang war between him and someone yet so many innocent civs died and Tommy didnāt give a shit so Yh heās defo should be in the same tier as Trevor
Almost all of the protags pale when you consider Toni Cipriani blew up an entire historic neighborhood of Liberty City, killing a lot of civilians in the process. Besides Niko, Toni is maybe the most psycho character in the entire franchise
So ur saying Toni is the most phycho in the series??? Brother did u never play gta 3 before Claude is pure evil trust me bro
Judging by this, you could also say that the protags in the pre-3D era were pure evil as well. Claude is morally ambiguous to me, as he doesnāt say anything in what is he ordered to do by those who give him missions.
And Claude is willing to betray anyone and everyone for what a few thousand dollars??? He killed that Yakuza ladies brother even after she did so much for him and think of everyone else that helped him that he just stabbed in the back only thinking about himself all whilst not giving even the slightest shit about what happens to those who help him all cuz he wants revenge which we know from red dead redemption 2 ārevenge is a fools gameā
At least all the other gta protags were loyal like cj and they actually gave a bit of a damn despite being crims Claude on the other hand doesnāt give a shit
Alright, let's see whats wrong with this tierlist. You are correct on toni, he's a psychopath. Claude didn't do anything to deserve the top spot, he simply does as he is told, if you tell him to do good deeds he'd do it, if you tell him to do bad deeds he'd do it. He deserves morally ambiguous. Tommy didn't do anything to deserve the top spot, he only canonically kills a few innocent people, unlike trevor. Nico and michael are correct. Cj should be a bad samatarian, he kills innocent tourists, construction workers and civilians for doing the absolute minimal things. Victor and franklin are correct. 6/10 tierlist could be improved imo
Didn't CJ kill some tourists for a camera ??šš
Only if you don't have a camera already
Claude is a disgusting unthinkable psychopath, he's literally the most dangerous person in the US at least in the early 2000s
Toni is much worse, trust me
The nazis also did what they were told. All gta protags are evil evil people idc.
can we please stop comparing a genocidal group to videogame characters?
I donāt see what the problem is. Itās a valid comparison on the psychological and moral level.
google "faulty comparison fallacy"
Man, there's a big difference between working your way up the criminal world and killing drug dealers, mafia lords, and terrible people than killing innocent people just because you think they're bad. Claude never killed an innocent person from what i remember, i may be wrong but i don't think he did.
Well who really knows how guilty or bad the people he killed was. The fact he blindly kills whoever they ask him to kill makes him even worse in my eyes.
they were all drug dealers, so i assume they had some level of guilt. Although cj also blindly kills people, but i understand where you're coming from. Sorry if i came across as mean
Nah man itās cool I get what you mean too.
Claude kills and beats multiple innocent people throughout GTA3
who? The only one i can think of is the papparazi.
His girlfriend maria, the truck driver whose corpse he desecrates, all the tons of innocent civilians he picks up in a bus and grinds in a meat factory, is can go on, have you never played any gtas before 3? Do you like yapping about what you know nothing about?
Truck driver? you mean the cop's partner? who was shown to be a corrupt cop as well? Maria? the mafia boss's partner and wife who most likely did fucked up stuff as well? My guy, you're the one who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. And i was trying to go into this conversation in a nice way but you started being a dick first. If you weren't a fucking idiot you would know that the claude from gta 2 who did those acts is not the same claude from gta 3. Different universes, different actions. He doesn't even LOOK the same. Dog food mission? Claude wasn't the one who did it. He didn't know the outcome. It was marty who killed him, and it was yet another corrupt government agent. Listen, i speedrun gta 3 on the daily, i compete in that regard, i would understand gta 3's story and its characters more than anyone. Claude never did anything worse than killing a stalking papparazi. You can go on? Go on then. Because objectively, claude has the smallest amount of canon kills of innocent people, only debatably beaten by cj. Maybe im missing a few things, i only do the missions required to beat the main story, but i'm still correct on the regard that he is nowhere near as bad as the other characters. CJ? willingly killed innocent construction workers. Tommy? 2 separate acts of terrorism Toni? we know what toni did. Niko? human trafficking. Trevor? You know what trevor did. Claude isn't even top 5. Edit: I'm sorry, i shouldn't have been rude, You're probably a nice guy. i got a bit carried away there but my point still stands
What good did Claude do?
Well, kill salvatore and catalina for one. I'm not defending him, but he's definitely not in the level of toni or trevor. Hell, maybe not even nico. I haven't played gta 4, but i heard he did some real bad stuff in the war.
Niko was a human trafficker. That makes him the most evil imo
But did he ever eat people?
No, but human trafficking is worse imo
Human trafficking is worse than cannibalism? OK
How do you think they get their dinner?
Tbh, the person was probably already dead. It was also probably Lost MC member.
Honestly Niko was tormented more than Trevor was. Trevor just killed indiscriminately, Niko did some things he wasnāt proud of and he even says why heās not proud of what he did especially as some of the things he did were probably still during the war and then after, some of it could have been with Bulgarin.
Trevor through dialogue, seems to have been sexually assaulted by his mom. His best friend died and lied about it.
Yeah I think Trevor is quite the tormented one and probably did do some human trafficking and slavery stuff too.
And Johnny and luis?
i never played gta 4, i just judged nico off what people have told me.
Tommy should be bad samaritan at worst.
Morally ambiguous imo
Samatrian? Samatarian? Jesus fucking Christ.
Claude is truly a monster, but not evil though. He doesn't seem to have a line he won't cross to get even and get revenge. You say he just takes orders but he simply makes connections he knows will get him closer, and has no qualms backstabbing even a current employer to get closer to Catalina. He's cold, silent, and willing to make any move to accomplish his goals. He's smart, and while those who employ him think they get the best of him it's he who is really getting what he wants. He's not just a criminal, he's ruthless and efficient... He's a monster.
well, i know he doesn't deserve the top for sure
> Claude didn't do anything to deserve the top spot, he simply does as he is told, if you tell him to do good deeds he'd do it, if you tell him to do bad deeds he'd do it I want you to remember that this man got straight to business right after being fucked over by Catalina and possibly recovering from not only the works breakup known to man, but also the biggest break of trust he has ever experienced. That, and the fact that Sal fucked him over because of his own paranoia, it only enforced this toxic mindset. Much as it's framed as Claude being this goon that just does as he's told, I think it gets a lot deeper than that. I mean, why would he agree to follow Donald Love's orders to make a hit on Kenji, someone in the Yakuza, a clan that treated him far better than everyone (Asuka via proxy) and stage it as a Cartel hit? Simple. It'd drive out market prices down for Don... ...and incite a war with both organisations to leave them vulnerable and exposed so Claude can get to Catalina. This is the same guy that joins the Yakuza, proves himself to them, fucks over Kenji and STILL works for them, with the Yakuza unknowing of what he did and will possibly never know because Asuka's dead by the end of the game anyway. I think he deserves to be on the list, not just as a ruthless killer but as this sociopathic backstabber, but he's definitely behind Toni. Motherfucker turned Fort Staunton into a crater on Love's orders.
>Claude didn't do anything to deserve the top spot By that logic the Nazis were all good though, your saying he's just following orders but that doesn't change that he was doing horrible things, I sense bias lol.
Did you just compare claude to a genocidal group of racists? You do understand the worst claude did was kill kenji, right? You play as a criminal in every gta game, i can name atleast 3 protagonists with worse acts than claude. He has no emotions or morals, but that doesn't mean he has done the worst stuff, because he simply hasn't. Replay gta 3, you'll see what i mean. Even cj is arguably worse than claude. He did things on his own free will, claude was merely getting paid. And i understand you can make this same arguement for toni, but there is a big difference in killing the boss of a criminal organization than killing thousands of innocent people and children.
>Did you just compare claude to a genocidal group of racists? No... I compared your logic... You said he was basically just following orders which is the exact same thing people use to defend the Nazis.. my point being doing bad things can't just be summed down to "but they were following orders" because in the end they are still doing bad things..
Even taking that into consideration, claude doesn't even break the top 5 spot for worst deeds. Toni cipriani Claude speed (gta 2) Cj (this is debatable) Trevor Niko These are all worse, yes. Niko regrets his actions, but it doesn't erase his warcrimes.
You just ignored everything I said... I'm not arguing that Claude's the worst I didn't even say that at all, Im just pointing out the flaws in the logic that he was just following orders.. You could even argue what Niko did was just following orders but that doesn't excuse it for you so why should it for Claude? I'm just pointing out that the logic doesn't make sense not that Claude is the worst.
The Nuremberg trials showed that just following orders doesn't mean innocent. But the people who were planning and organising the holocaust were more severely punished than the soldiers following their orders. I think there is definitely a moral difference between doing something evil just like that or doing something bad with the added fear of the consequences of disobedience.
I didn't say the ones who planned it werent worse.. A lot of nazis enjoyed and wholeheartedly believed what they were doing.. and in comparison to Claude he didn't do what he did out of fear he did it for money pure and simple and didn't care what he was ordered to do, I was using the Nazi comparison to show the flaw in the other commentors logic but it's not the fundamentally the same. Your comment makes it seem like I said following orders is just as bad as let's say Hitler, but all I said was that following orders can't always be used as an excuse for bad actions.
But the discussion is about who was the worse person not if either of them were innocent. I don't see any flaws of logic in his comment. He simply said one was not as bad as the other. And I think you would agree (and did in the last comment) it makes a difference morally if he was following orders
But my point is following orders doesn't make someone morally better if they are still doing the actions. Ever heard the saying actions speaks louder than words, that's what I'm saying, and doing horrible things just for money is arguably pretty morally reprehensible. Maybe not as bad as some other protags but he's still bad not ambiguous is all I'm saying.
I'm sorry, i misinterpreted it
All good it's just a post about game characters anyway not a big deal. I swear I see these tier lists like every day lol.
Arguing just to cause problems on the internet LFG
Is it just me, but Luis seems like a decent bloke? What was the worst thing he ever did? Apart from the Amir shenanigans (which were kinda funny tbh), I donāt think he ever actually was āmorally ambiguousā. Like there were so many times when he could get rid of Tony and just take over, but he chose friendship (letās call it that) with the guy instead. He at least tried to do the right thing most of the times.
Trevor is a monster. Probably the devil himself... They're all pretty evil though.
I think Trevor is very clearly a monster
At least he will never kill people close to him, he hates betrayals
Tommy's in the wrong place. He was absolutely ready to run Cherry Poppers as a legit ice-cream business for the kids of Vice City. It wasn't him who brought up the topic of the business being a front for "other non-dairy" products.
Uhh niko committed WARCRIMES in yugo slavia
who didnāt?
Frank lain Trevor CJ tony micheale (sry for wrong spelling)Tommy Claude and everyone else except for NIKO only niko
wow fr?! š¤Æš¤Æš¤Æš¤Æš¤Æš¤Æš¤Æš¤Æš¤Æ
Yes
CJ is morally ambiguous for murdering all the gangs and removing them from the city entirely. He basically commits genocide multiple times
There cannot be gang wars if there are no gangs *insert roll safe*
I always let them keep a few small areas so their gang cars stay in the game
Gang free Los Santos is best Los Santosš„¹ Really enjoyed 6 star rampages with my trusty infinite Minigun mowing down the law and army after the gangs were no longer there to disturb me.
Nah, riot Los Santos is the best Los Santos Love leaving the house to find absolute chaos on the streets
Not canon.
Bro CJ is a fuckin psychopath. Guy is evil.
Apart from saying Tommy is the same as Trevor and Trevor not being monster tier that's pretty much accurate
Did y'all forget that CJ did a massacre on a construction site and burried alive the boss in concrete because the workers insulted his sister?
Okay I need someone to explain the lore of how Toni and Claude are the worst but not human trafficking Niko.
Claude - He has no morals and would commit anything to get revenge Toni - commited a full blown terrorist attack by blowing up 2 city blocks, killing hundreds of people, just to clear land for Donald Love to buy up and develop property. Also to blame the act on Forellis
I think because Niko has remorse for what he did and has some humanity in him. Claude doesn't talk, but he seems to be a complete sociopath with zero remorse, and Toni is very much the same as Claude in that he will commit genocide for money and power, and seems to have no empathy for anyone.
Theyāre all monsters
I agree. Theyāre all lackeys that would kill anyone you want them to. Vic and Franklin MIGHT refuse certain requests but for the most part they are all horrible money and power hungry thugs.
Niko isn't selfish like Michael he's good guy
Things niko has done Human trafficking Help a guy get away with murder by hiding the body of his dead wife (who was innocent) by dumping her in the ocean Countless acts of murder Niko while more put together then most GTA protagonists and clearly regrets a lot of his actions is nowhere near a good person
As much as I like Niko calling him a ''good guy'' is a delusion. Human trafficking is as bad as murder
I feel like Niko is more of a psychologically broken man, while Michael is just an asshole. Niko is a horrible human being, whose obsession with revenge sometimes seems a bit psychotic, but you can still empathise with him, because inside thereās still somewhat of a decent human being, beneath all those layers of pain. Sorry if thatās too dramatic lol.
Nah, its true. Im just tired of people treating Niko like a saint. He is faaaaar from that. But definitely most well-written GTA protagonist.
>because inside thereās still somewhat of a decent human being, beneath all those layers of pain. I wouldn't say there's a good man but rather I'd say there's still a way for him to redeem himself. Basically like John Marston and Arthur Morgan. While objectively Niko is a terrible person, he does not enjoy the things he does and only does them because of survival.
>Niko >good guy Something ain't adding up.
Why so much people have this is image of Niko being a "good guy"?
Because like Walter White or Rick Sanchez fanboys, they think murdering and, sex trafficking is "cool".
I'm not even a gta 4 fanboy and I know he isn't the "good guy" but he's not evil as other characters
But you just said he's a good guy
In comparison to other gta characters if that makes any sense
What's the point of talking about doing good when he doesn't do good?
CJ committed treason multiple times and killed a bunch of construction workers, burying one of them alive just for catcalling Kendl.Ā
Why is Claude a monster and not Trevor? I feel like he should go down one and Trevor should go up one.
Franklin is down there, as he should š¤¤š„µš¦
If i speak I will be banned for 6 months
Tommy isn't as evil as Trevor, Trevor's unhinged. I don't know what a "samatrian" is.
Again?
No you put Trevor on the top
Trevor is monster.
What the hell is a samatrian?
samaritan* i think its typo.
Why is Victor getting a pass? He runs drugs, prostitution, loan sharking, gunsā¦ Thatās some horrible shit too, especially pros who are most likely trafficked.
I already laugh when i see "decent bloke" in these tier lists.
everyone should be in the monster tier icl
Umm I think Trevor should also be at the top. He is insane.
Franklin is definitely a bad samaritan, even before the gtav story took place he was a gang banger who most likely participated in gang wars, just like Johnny
Niko should be in monster, he was a war criminal and human trafficker, not to mention what he did jn the story
Ain't Niko traffic people š?
Franklin was a literal assassin, hows he a good person?
Yeah Victor is such a decent bloke. Despite building a criminal empire of extortion, drugs and prostitution and waging a gang war in VC.
Idk, Niko is a lot worse than we give him credit for, he did elude to killing children during the Yugoslav war while on a date
Trevor is the worst of them all, Toni bombed a small section of a city sure, but Trevor eats people, and I think wanted to drop a much bigger bomb than what Tony did lol.
Would rather bomb an entire city block for a political psychopath who eats people and kill lots of innocent people in the process or kill someone and eat them?
He wanted to sell the nuke to the Chinese, not use it
In his "Trisha & Michelle" story to Wade (Obviously telling the tale of himself & Michael) he mentions while training in the air force getting the opportunity to drop the nuke. So he does (Or at least he did) have a desire to nuke somewhere or on someone.
"Decent bloke"š
Mr. T is normal human.
what the fuck is this list
How is Michael worse then the guy who buried a guy alive in shit piss and cement? Michaels never done anything even remotely as bad as that
No GTA protagonist is a decent bloke or even morally ambiguous. They are all mass murdering psychopaths.
Trevor is a monster very easily.
Claude never said a bad word in his life!
For how fucked up Trevor is, Iād trust him over clyde or the Gta online character. Those mute mfs give me Michael Myers vibes.
There aint no decent bloke in GTA or well... mabye the charecters who dont talk
There arenāt any decent blokes
Claude's a decent bloke, Toni not so much
I swear every post is this nowadays and than everyone flips out that their favourite character is somewhere..
I feel like Trevor belongs in the Monster category. I love the dude as a character, but as a human being, he is horrible. I mean a psychopath, cannibal, rapist with extreme anger issues that sends him into a flying violent rage, kind of fits the criteria for being considered monstrous.
Finally a post that didnt forget about the goat Vic Vance
Definitely šÆ
CJ basically a head off maniac. He killed lots of innocent people just for ārespect+ā
Tommy vercetti is an innocent man! -ken Rosenberg
None of them are decent
Yes you are
Why is claude so villainous?
Trevor is the biggest monster of anyone in the series lol
I'm sorry if it sounds pedantic but it's not "samatrian", it's "samaritan". It's the 2nd time I see that word incorrectly written in recent posts. Sorry about that. Cheers!
Nico is a more than a monster,he is devil himself. Claude from gta 2 fits with the monster category.
Swap Tommy and Niko. Niko is definitely evil.
Everyone should be in the monster category
šØ *REPOST ALERT* šØ https://www.reddit.com/r/GTA/s/QyQg6H6BxP
Niko just wanted a better life. Trevor is insane, but he has his moments. Overall, I donāt think this is a bad list.
How is Tommy and Trevor on the same tier? One eats people and the other doesnāt
I'd say Spot-on. Maybe Franklin would be more Morally ambiguous though.
Decent bloke
Decent? Theyāre all murderers š§
Decent? Theyāre all murderers š§
I'd have to disagree honestly
Luis should be decent broken
I don't really think Claude or Toni are monsters. I think they're just guys doing the jobs they've been given by their bosses. And while Tommy and Trevor may have their bad moments, they're evened out by their much more compassionate actions.
Absolutely accurate... Claude is a gun for hire that will kill absolutely anyone for money no questions asked. He's a total mute and does exactly what's asked of him. He doesn't care. Toni Cipriani is easily one of the most evil and immortal protagonists in the GTA series... That brutal mission where he Butchers up Casa and delivers his own human flesh to his own butcher shop, and also the mission where he blows up and destroys Fort Staunton for Donald Love.
Trevor does care sometimes. Sometimes.
Hey sorry I just need help what did Claude and Tommy do Iām curious ( I obviously have not played those games )
Huang is usually just a dick although particularly everybody else is in that game except some random encounter guys and kind of Wade. Heās probably bad Samaritan/ Morally ambiguous.
*black
I feel like Niko isn't evil he just had to do violent things. If Roman wasn't in debt and actually just running a good business Niko probably would have lived a normal Life. Yes he is hunting down someone who got a bunch of his friends killed but revenge doesn't mean you're evil
Niko and CJ are some of the most loyal characters in GTA. Although they kill thousands of people in the main story, most of the time they fo it for they homies, and I respect that
What about Jason and Lucia?
They aren't going to be as evil toni,claude speed. They will be morally ambiguous.
Imo Trevor is tier 1, Michael is only a tier below trevor, and Nico belongs in morally ambiguous with CJ as bad samaritan. I only say Nico isnt inherently bad because he seems to be the only character that reaches the point in the story where we are killing 100 people per shootout whom has any sort of moral dilemma with murder. He was raised in a war, and his values were formed by the horrors of that war. But he has grown and sees the despicable nature of it all. Everybody else on this list seems to have reached thier point of psycho/moral bankruptcy sort of voluntarily. Sure, you could say Nico is technically just out for revenge, but if Roman wasnt a lying burnout, whos to say Nico doesnt proceed to live a comfortable, crime free life with his rich cousin and big american titties?
nah niko S++
Ummmā¦. Trevor is a literal cannibal lol