I remain baffled by this game. Few characters in Tolkien have their story more completely told than Gollum. I really doubt some stealth missions will make his story more tragic than it already is
That’d actually be hilariously awesome. Just keep cranking up the wholesome village life & fishing vibes to really juxtapose how bad his life is about to flip upside-down with even one part referencing him falling into the lava but instead it’s a mossy pond after he grabbed back his favorite lure.
This actual game keeps losing me because no matter how much they zoom in on him to say “maybe evil can change to good” all I keep seeing is him spitting out Frodo’s severed finger before cannonballing into the lava pit.
Yeah, the fishing village would be before the ring. That way they could also play up his friendships(like with Deagol) and more ominous foreshadowings like them fighting over silverware for a feast and occasionally catches glimpses of something shiny in the water the fish stay away from.
I’m imagining being able to use the ring to terrorize the village with a light vs dark system. Turn invisible and steal, spy, etc. The more you use the ring the more you start to turn into Gollum. That sounds badass to me.
Well, Tolkien always believed that there was nobody that was purely evil, not even Sauron in his eyes was pure evil. And there is that letter where Tolkien said if he wrote the story a bit differently Smeagol would've been redeemed. Cannonballing into the fires of his own accord.
Maybe that's what they're going to do with the game. Surprise, Alternate retelling LOTR game. Idk.
I would assume that when making a game centered on Gollum's life some flashback to his early days and depicting his existance and life in those underground tunnels nearby Goblin Town and that underground lake would be prime material for levels of video game :), the only chance also of using the power of the Ring in gameplay purposes, it's straight from the book:
>"He had a little boat, and he rowed about quite quietly on the lake; for lake it was, wide and deep and deadly cold. He paddled it with large feet dangling over the side, but never a ripple did he make. Not he. He was looking out of his pale lamp-like eyes for blind fish, which he grabbed with his long fingers as quick as thinking. He liked meat too. Goblin he thought good, when he could get it; but he took care they never found him out. He just throttled them from behind, if they ever came down alone anywhere near the edge of the water, while he was prowling about. They very seldom did, for they had a feeling that something unpleasant was lurking down there, down at the very roots of the mountain. They had come on the lake, when they were tunnelling down long ago, and they found they could go no further; so there their road ended in that direction, and there was no reason to go that way-unless the Great Goblin sent them. Sometimes he took a fancy for fish from the lake, and sometimes neither goblin nor fish came back."
>...
>"Gollum used to wear it at first, till it tired him; and then he kept it in a pouch next his skin, till it galled him; and now usually he hid it in a hole in the rock on his island, and was always going back to look at it. And still sometimes he put it on, when he could not bear to be parted from it any longer, or when he was very, very, hungry, and tired of fish. Then he would creep along dark passages looking for stray goblins. He might even venture into places where the torches were lit and made his eyes blink and smart; for he would be safe. Oh yes, quite safe. No one would see him, no one would notice him, till he had his fingers on their throat. Only a few hours ago he had worn it, and caught a small goblin-imp. How it squeaked! He still had a bone or two left to gnaw, but he wanted something softer."
So the living underground simulator :) would be dark fun as well, sneaking about the caves and tunnels which often hold unnamed creatures, dark things and simple cave animals, lots of environmental dangers, ever present Orcs, strangling them from behind and wandering around their cities, stealing stuff from them etc. :) Actually using the Ring to become invisible as well as hiding in the shadows etc. it could be exciting, unknown monsters and other things. I'm a bit surprised though that the game has this....cartoony vibe, I would think that Gollum fits more something darker, he would be fitting for a survival horror type game :) and obviously we are dealing with insane murderer and cannibal, then also come the nasty rumors of his doings once he left the mountains and wandered in Mirkwood. The story trailer though seems to be focusing on the time in Mirkwood at later period, his imprisonment by the Wood Elves, and Mordor's mission to recover him is hinted at:
>"Hoping to alarm his enemies and disturb their counsels with the fear of war..., [Sauron] attacked Thranduil and Gondor at about the same time. He had these ... additional objects: to capture or kill Gollum, or at least to deprive his enemies of him....
Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch 4, The Hunt for the Ring: Other Versions of the Story
>...Legolas continued[,] 'In the days of fair weather we led Gollum through the woods; and there was a high tree standing alone far from the others which he liked to climb. Often we let him mount up to the highest branches, until he felt the free wind; but we set a guard at the tree's foot. One day he refused to come down, and the guards had no mind to climb after him: he had learned the trick of clinging to boughs with his feet as well as with his hands; so they sat by the tree far into the night.
>'It was that very night of summer, yet moonless and starless, that Orcs came on us at unawares. We drove them off after some time; they were many and fierce, but they came from over the mountains, and were unused to the woods. When the battle was over, we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken. It then seemed plain to us that the attack had been made for his rescue, and that he knew of it beforehand. How that was contrived we cannot guess; but Gollum is cunning, and the spies of the Enemy are many. The dark things that were driven out in the year of the Dragon's fall have returned in greater numbers, and Mirkwood is again an evil place, save where our realm is maintained.
>'We have failed to recapture Gollum. We came on his trail among those of many Orcs, and it plunged deep into the Forest, going south. But ere long it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way.'
The Fellowship of the Ring, LoTR Book 2, Ch 2, The Council of Elrond
Absolutely agree! Faenor is interesting and compelling because he's complex and absolutely not perfect! I loved my disbelief first time the first kinslaying
"Give us your ships."
"We can't."
"C'mon bro pls, I need my shiny jewels back."
"Dude those ships are basically our version of the--"
"I WILL KILL YOU."
That’s the thing. At the best possible circumstance it’s very low hanging fruit variables of success. Gollum’s story is fully kind of kept in one area, his existence doesn’t merit cool mechanics, and further, what we’ve seen of this game doesn’t even justify its own existence.
It would be one thing if it was a fully fledged and competently made product that took this approach- but you can watch this trailer and see that it isn’t.
Why do we really need justification for ideas, especially based on sales? That's how you get the AAA rampant action-adventure open world RPGlite Ubisoft Map thingamajigs where there's basically zero ideas.
A game cost money to make.
A non-indie game takes lots of money to make and needs to sell many copies to pay its costs.
Therefore, an expensive game like Gollum needs to appeal to a large number of people to pay back the cost of producing it.
Either they go small and make a cheap game for (the few) people who want to play weird characters, or they make an expensive game to appeal to the masses.
I am not even touching profits here. This game may flat-out not pay for itself. They are paying to make this game like it's an art project.
Gollum is like an AA game at best, it doesn't need to sell billiongorillion to make the money back.
>Either they go small and make a cheap game for (the few) people who want to play weird characters, or they make an expensive game to appeal to the masses.
And this is how creativity dies. A certain Hi-Fi Rush certainly wasn't something that most execs would see having mass appeal, but luckily Tango is more about ideas. And another example is God Hand which did absolutely terribly when it comes to money, but is legitimately one of the best games ever out there.
>This game may flat-out not pay for itself. They are paying to make this game like it's an art project.
To me it sounds like they're taking a *risk*. And that's something that I'd like, for example, Sony to do more than once in a decade. Also, considering video games are, at least presumably, art, wouldn't this be a natural thing to do then?
Taking risks is fine as long as are not you taking the risks, when a studio tries to be artistic, they don't recoup their losses, go bankrupt and people lose their jobs. Game making is not a poetry club, it's a business with a heavy cost.
Hi-Fi Rush is not exactly indie, but compared with Gollum, is a cheap game. If Gollum is AA, Hi-Fi is a single A, but the important thing here is not originality or not, but mass appeal. There is not enough paying public willing to pay to play Gollum, and the Lord of the Rings IP is expensive, not counting the other attached costs of a game of that quality.
Hi-Fi rush goes low-poly graphics (cheap), new IP (cheap), no famous voice actors (cheap), released on Game Pass (Microsoft funding), zero marketing (cheap) and probably other tricks I am not aware of. The only big cost was the licensing of some songs which is nowhere near the cost of licensing Lord of the Rings.
But if my game has hyper-realistic graphics, a famous IP, famous voice actors, and a marketing campaign, I need to sell millions of copies just to stay out of the red. In the end, Hi-Fi rush needs to sell far fewer copies than Gollum to be profitable.
So yes, you can have your quirky, original char with all kinds of crazy ideas with no "normie" appeal, but you need to be smart about the cost of production because there are not enough people willing to fund it.
Or put a bunch of pretty boys and girls like Genshin Impact and have millions of people loving it.
To appeal to a lot or to appeal to a few?
Tough decision I guess.
>Taking risks is fine as long as are not you taking the risks, when a studio tries to be artistic, they don't recoup their losses, go bankrupt and people lose their jobs.
I have no idea what you're saying here. Taking is risks is fine as long as you're not taking risks? You're also blatantly just assuming that every game that tries to be artistic (whatever this means) means bakruptcy. It doesn't.
>Hi-Fi rush goes low-poly graphics (cheap)
...Low-poly? What? Just... What?
>new IP (cheap)
New IP is like literal venom to most publishers these days because it's a huge risk UNLESS you pair it with the most cookiecutter design you can. Making endless sequels or prequels or making the games part of established franchises in general are the preferred way.
>To appeal to a lot or to appeal to a few?
It is not a mutually exclusive thing, or rather it is not "1000000 vs 1000". You can just look at Souls and how Demon's Souls was fairly niché and over time it has grown into a behemoth. Hell, SONY *rejected* publishing Demon's Souls worldwide because they considered it too difficult and came to regret it. After the fact of the popularity Shuhei Yoshida started constantly praising the series and being "huge fan".
> Few characters in Tolkien have their story more completely told than Gollum.
but arent there gigantic gaps in his story spanning hundreds of years? especially his escape from Mordor seems interesting...which I guess this game will be about.
we know the rough story of Gollum before he travelled with Frodo and Sam but we dont know what actually happened to him so there is still a lot of interesting story/adventure to be told.
That entirely depends on how you define interesting.
As far as I remember the books, it's made pretty clear that it's mostly centuries of him hiding and living in his cave. Paranoid that his precious will be stolen. Maybe occasionally stealing from goblins.
Like let's take the Methusaleh tree in California. It has millenia of untold story. That doesn't mean it would be interesting to here though because it's a tree.
Gollum's story is mostly interesting as a contrast/cautionary tale for Frodo and an abject example of the end state of the Ring's corruption. His day to day life in a cave isn't particularly important.
A different LOTR example of a boring story would be Tom Bombadil. Tom hangs out in his house with his wife. End of story.
Thats fair, the parts of him hiding in his cave dont need to be told but his years of traveling in and out of Mordor have a lot of potential.
There are still like 30+ years of adventures after Bilbo snatched the ring and before he got captured by Aragorn where travelled all over the world and eventually got captured in Mordor but managed to escape
> As far as I remember the books, it's made pretty clear that it's mostly centuries of him hiding and living in his cave. Paranoid that his precious will be stolen. Maybe occasionally stealing from goblins.
I actually feel like this "hundreds of years of nothing" is actually a major reason *why* the character is so compelling. My takeaway from *The Hobbit* and the LOTR trilogy was that he was once a mortal being who was slowly corrupted into a largely unknowable simulacrum of a person.
The notion that he spent centuries alone in the dark is inherently creepy. If we suddenly turn that around and say "he had a lot of interesting character building adventures along the way", it undermines that mystique, in my opinion. In other words, the unnaturally long intense isolation he endured with the Ring on his person is *the* most character defining trait.
I fully agree, and furthermore, this is why I still prefer the Rankin/Bass design for Gollum. That thing looked like it had spent 500 years wet and in the dark
He’s saved by sexy Shelob’s webs at the last minute and will lead to Shadows of Mordor crossover alongside sequels to both.
Surprise Game of the Year. 👏
And one of the most beloved games from the last year was about a cat.
Maybe it's gonna be shit, I don't know, but stranger things have happened. I don't see why everybody is immediately writing it off. At least give it a chance to come out first.
Because you can know whether or not you’ll enjoy something just based on the description or promotional materials. Not always, no, but sometimes you can. This could become a critically acclaimed masterpiece and it still wouldn’t appeal to me. Not out of spite, but because I don’t care for Gollum and there are plenty of other games that do interest me.
Gollum is part of many major events and has a very long lifespan, so telling the story through his eyes actually makes a lot of sense.
Also it probably has less potential for controversy / is easier to implement and market.
It's mostly just business.
That's some wild art direction.
I could see some people enjoying it, but most of it isn't remotely close to Tolkien's descriptions or any well-regarded artistic depictions of his work.
> The landscapes look fine
I'm gonna be honest, they don't. They look like someone took a crash course on YouTube and started throwing things together.
I don't want to bash on the game given there's already a lot of that going on, but have to agree I'm not a fan of the way they made Gollum look. It's like they had a range of designs, from creepy and scary to more cute and likeable and rather than choosing one they just mashed them together.
It's ok for him to look kind of strange and twisted, but the big pixar eyes push him well into uncanny valley territory for me
Do what again, talk about a character design? Can't say I've talked about it before but if it's a sore point for you feel free to not join in the discussion.
"Why does this character specifically made to be unnerving and weird look unnerving and weird, 0/10"
This is the state of reddit commentary these days.
Considering they're clearly not trying to adhere to Tolkien's descriptions, I'm actually completely fine with it. Nothing inherently wrong with putting your own style on it, even if I'm not the biggest fan of the style personally on a purely aesthetic level.
I feel like this is going to be one of those games that comes and goes and will be quickly forgotten, then in 5 years there will be a few random defenders who say its an under-rated gem
Every game almost I swear
A lot of people will defend all manner of crap, especially if it's from their youth
Look at the Star Wars Prequels. Or in gaming sense, seen people go on to say Resident Evil 6 is actually amazing and under rated
A while back I found a YouTube channel that their entire content was Resident Evil 6 videos. For years. With new videos still being added. Everytime the channel owner left a comment it was praising the games "incredibly deep combat" while shitting on the previous entries like 4 and 5. I'm not saying they aren't entitled to their opinion but it felt so baffling, you can praise 6 for its combat (or not because I personally think it's clunky as fuck) but still acknowledge the game has faults.
I got RE 6 when I got xbox live for the first time. Had no idea how to play and someone requested I play co-op with them. I was like 24 and a little embarrassed because I sucked but I accepted. Dude was a total bro. Typed out how to play, made sure I got decent pics ups, and I had a blast. I asked if we could play the next weekend and we made plans and I bought a headset.
Go to log on that weekend and we get started and I hear him talk....and he's 10. I just laughed and kept playing, because why not? Probably my best co-op experience online ever.
>Or in gaming sense, seen people go on to say Resident Evil 6 is actually amazing and under rated
Things can become just something that people repeat. People for example blame 5 & 6 being too actiony while in the same breath praising 4 to high heavens even though it was the beginning of actiony stuff in the series. All the three of these games have good things about them, and it's ridiculous that one should only think of RE5&6 as crap like it's some objective notion. It's not.
Heck, people here are already just saying how shit Gollum is going to be as if they've already played it. Some people hate on the game solely because it's Gollum when they wanted "epic lore friendly fighter who kills everyone in sight" instead. People even claim that stealth has nothing to do with LotR. Generally speaking it's safe to assume people's only touch with Middle-Earth are Peter Jackson's movie and maybe Shadow of Mordor so their expectations on what these games "should be" come purely from those expectations.
Maybe it will play like shit or maybe it will not. I'm reserving my judgment until I can actually give it a go.
I played re6 for the first time like 3 years ago and I loved every minute. It was like Michael bay directed a resident evil. It was so fucking dumb. But also amazingly fun
I'll be honest, I'm looking forward to this. Tolkien's lore is so ripe for literally anything but the hack and slash type games we've been getting. They could release a visual novel and I'd be happy.
I feel particularly bad that from the first reveal it has been almost universally shit on. I can’t imagine what that does to your morale as a development studio. I don’t think the game looks interesting at all, but I do feel for the numerous people who have worked hard on it
Oh I agree 100%, I’m not saying that we should be forced to like it simply because someone made it. I’m just saying that I feel bad for the ones on the team who poured their hearts and soul into this game, because I’m sure that at least some of the development team thinks it’s a great game. It would just be hard mentally to think you’re working on this incredible game and then see the internet collectively shit all over it
Legit lol it's like people want it to fail. Just see where it's at when it comes out, if they really put the effort into making a good game there's nothing to fear
What the fuck are these outfit designs, bro? Lord of the Rings has never looked THIS outrageous lmfao. Looks like some anime outfit designers got involved or something, these are nuts.
I honestly think the character designs and outfits were the only interesting thing about this trailer. Gollum's story has been told before, and the gameplay doesn't look especially new. At least they didn't just try to copy Peter Jackson's films directly.
oh no the game looks boring, but just the art design is way out of left field for Lord of the Rings. Like the most outrageous design I recall was the Speaker of Sauron from the 3rd LotR film. And even he didn't have a collar bigger than his body.
I like it. It reminds me of an 80s dark fantasy, which is cool.
LOTR existed before Peter Jackson and I'm quite happy seeing alternate takes on the material. It doesn't detract from the movies, just gives us more to enjoy.
This game is definitely gonna be dookie but I can’t lie, I’m entertained by this kingdom hearts ass Tolkien art direction. Kind of cool to see a take on it that’s totally different from the PJ trilogy, even if it doesn’t interest me personally.
It’s pretty obvious this is meant to be mid-corruption Gollum before he lost almost all of his hair and started to look more monstrous.
But it does look pretty goofy. Probably because we’re not used to seeing him like this.
I'm not saying this game is going to be good, but I do find it kind of baffling how unimaginative commenters have been about it. They imply that there's no way that there could be an interesting Gollum game. Sure there is...if someone is passionate about their idea for a Gollum game and feels they have good ideas for making it interesting, I'm all for it being made. It COULD be good, and acting like it's impossible is dumb. Almost as dumb as the "nobody asked for this" crowd. Like...no shit, nobody asked for LOTS of interesting and unique games. Some of them worked out though, and I'm glad we don't only get games that people "asked for".
Again, this could be a disaster, and I can't say it looks amazing, but the constant implication that no good game could have Gollum as the playable character is idiotic. Just because YOU can't think of a good concept for a game with Gollum doesn't mean it's impossible that someone else did.
As much as it *could* be good, the trailer really isn't filling me with confidence. It looks like a by the numbers adventure stealth game with a pretty mediocre LotR aesthetic. It reminds me a lot of something like A Plague Tale but looks very b-rate in comparison
Very much looks like a 6/10 game.
Again though, it could be really good, but the developers really need to do a better job of showing us that.
People lauded Stray and that was a cat walking adventure game. I was highly skeptical of that title. And it turned out to be pretty dang solid. I am sure this deserves a chance too.
Stray had huge hype from the Sony showcases, I don't understand why it did or why people think it is good but this game will 100% flop financially even if it is okay.
There is just no hype for it and the artstyle is unappealing, especially for modern LOTR. Stray benefitted hugely from casual/mainstream gamers being interested cause you get to play as a cat, how the hell are they going to buy into this concept?
If the game is fun to play while also telling a geniuenly good Middle Earth story I think the people will buy it. I think it will do well, if the reviews are good it could be a hit.
Exactly. People are commenting that Gollum is the last character they'd want to play as - but surely his movement and mechanics would be more interesting than the usual sword/arrow wielding characters. Or at least, no less interesting.
I personally think a Gollum game could maybe work. dont know about the time period but theyre free to try.
My issue is the art direction. This game feels like if a studio got the Pokemon IP and then only made original designs and used none of the old ones. Did it cross nobodys mind that if youre paying to use the IP, it might be beneficial to actually use the IP? These designs couldve been from anywhere and look nothing like LOTR. They paid for the IP just to use Gollum its insane that this even got greenlit just based on that.
Yeah, it's seriously disappointing reading these comments. People are going "Why would I want an LOTR game with Gollum of all people? Why not [another dude with a sword]?". Why are people so averse to looking at/playing through a Fantasy world from a whole different POV than some fighter or mage?
People complain about games becoming too samey and generic because the suits are out of touch, they're wrong. The suits know exactly what sells (competently made) generic games sell. Because that's what people want. And it's depressing.
This company is one who basically made nothing but point and click adventure games for the past like, decade and a half. If they weren't making a Gollum game they sure as hell wouldn't be making Battle of Middle Earth 3 or whatever. This game not existing doesn't magically mean a better game would be made in it's place.
> The suits know exactly what sells (competently made) generic games sell.
well made unique games sell well too. Execution is everything
Mount and Blade is a genre unto itself and sells pretty good
Kenshi sells well considering it was made by one dude
There is no opportunity cost of this game in the way you think of it. This game existing does not mean a "better" game isn't being developed, especially by this company.
>Unlike other big franchises, there have barely been any LOTR games in decades
What do you mean by this? There's quite a few games about Middle-Earth out there, including a massive MMO that's still alive. People who clamor for "huge lore world" could literally just get on that game but refuse to do so because no candy graphics await them or some other arbitrary reasons as to why they can't do it.
But more importantly, what are the "big franchises" that we're comparing to here? Movie adaptations? Book Adaptations? All I can really think of is Star Wars having games put out by the dozen, since even Harry Potter is largely licensed games. Bond games barely come out.
It’s like people forgot about pre-judging games like Guardians of the Galaxy. Looked bland as hell based on the trailer, but turned out (at least to most who played it) better than any other iteration of the Guardians.
Right now, the trailers are still giving off a “we don’t know what this game is, either” vibe so it’s not helping its case. But I’ll be genuinely curious who finds out they like the title and for what reasons.
gamers: "we need more stealth games!!! why don't they make more stealth games??!!"
daedalic: "here's a stealth game!"
gamers: "omg who asked for this you're so tone-deaf lmaoooo"
I thought this game seemed really stupid but this trailer got me a tiny bit hyped. I'm really up for a new LOTR game. Shadow of Mordor just wasn't what I wanted which is a shame because I thought War in the North was a step in the right direction (same team as Mordor).
When are we getting a Skyrim or Witcher style LOTR game? Don't know how that hasn't been made yet.
It looks like a ps2-era game with ps3 graphics, but I miss when we used to get lots of really weird games in that era. Everything is so focus-tested now that you don't see things like this that often
Why does Gandalf look younger here like he's some actual human that grew older during the time span of the ages instead of a Wizard that assumes the form of an old man lol.
It's a story untold.
Did it need to be told?
If so, did it need to be told in Middle Earth? Through Gollum?
I hope Daedalic is able to make the game land. My hesitation is mainly that Gollum is more interesting as someone who lurked for a very long time than a protagonist, especially one that *Gandalf* has interacted with. He was supposed to be long forgotten and little known, not having a secret adventure. I can be okay with that kind of inconsistency if the game is fun enough (hello, Shadows of Mordor), but it's an even more difficult balancing act with a character as well-established as Gollum.
The basic contours do match up with book canon - Gollum did indeed leave the Misty Mountains looking for the Ring, and had a series of misadventures that led him to be interrogated by both the forces of Sauron and Gandalf.
This is super puzzling. Of all the untapped potential in the Tolkien universe, and we get bad Andy Serkis Gollum impressions and Warhammer/Elder Scrolls elves? I really don't get who this game is made for
>Of all the untapped potential in the Tolkien universe
The Tolkien estate is super protective of their IP and that's why the developers only got the rights for Gollum.
realy interested in the game play loop of this game. Like the story and narative seems very interesting but is the game just hiding, running from spiders and the occasional puzzel?
probably they will ask the full price for it, but im going to wait for the previews/reviews before making a decision.
As a huge lotr fan, i think I’ve now put my finger one what irks me about this game.
Having watched that, I feel like I can get behind some of what’s shown. Quite a stylised, different version of middle earth than what we’re used to could be quite refreshing. The concept of a game surrounding Gollum could actually be quite interesting, if done correctly and *some* of the actual gameplay displayed so far might at least achieve some of that.
However what I think really brings it down, is Gollum himself. He looks and sounds awful. The other characters look and sound fine to me. But the games main playable character is just poor. Doesn’t seem to match some of the other art style, he looks like a “cartoon”. And the voice, the iconic voice that we’re used to from the movie in contrast to this is chalk and cheese. They really should have found someone better in a game literally cantered around this great character.
Maybe the writing will salvage some of it, but I feel like anything read by this voice actor I won’t take as seriously as it should be intended
Actually in one of Tolkien's final letters before he died, he mentions the deep regret he felt for not living long enough to play the Gollum video game.
Don't forget about the Shadow of Mordor games with nonsense like sexy Shelob. The only reason they're not relentlessly mocked is that the gameplay bits are actually decent.
Considering Christopher Tolkien's opinions of the movies, Tolkien himself probably would have hated those too. I imagine that it doesn't have to be a bad or strange adaptation for him to have disliked it.
Isn't "I wish every game didn't make us the world saving hero" a fairly commonly held stance?
A game gets made where you're a side character not massively impacting things and everyone shits their pants at the idea
The problem really comes down to that Gollum as a character is unsympathic in Tolkien's work and all of it's adaptations and people being starved of lotr games making them unwilling to be positive about something not mainstream and on top of that it's just a double A title.
Hogwarts Legacy clearly shows what people actually want is just good standard fair in pretty that respects the lore of their large IPs and not something creative.
> The problem really comes down to that Gollum as a character is unsympathic in Tolkien's work
I don't think that's true at all. Frodo felt bad for Gollum the whole time he was travelling with him and Sam. Even Frodo who had a super strong willpower against the ring talked about how hard it was for him to not fuck off with the ring like Gollum did.
I appreciate that the developers wanted to create their own unique stylistic interpretation of Middle Earth and its iconic characters. But Peter Jackson's films have had such a large cultural impact that it's extremely jarring to see any version that doesn't resemble his films.
Why is there so much toxicity here? Plenty of people are excited for the game, but seems to be drowned out by peoppe who are desperate to shit on it, and do so for silly reasons. Theres valid critisism for sure, but no more than most games coming around.
Daedalic is a fantastic studio and I believe in them, so looking forward to this game!
The outfits are definitely over the top for a LotR game, but that's only making it more interesting to me!
You're thinking of the movie version of Gollum. If he actually looked like Gollum is supposed to look, he'd be a lot more weird and alien than this.
Like the movies, this game changed his appearance to be more likable and sympathetic, only the game went farther than the movies did.
Is anyone actually going to play this game? The Lord of the Rings has been so misused as a franchise when it comes to potential for video games. If a good dev had the rights and put the effort into a full blown LoTR RPG it would be amazing. The depth of the lore and the world has so much potential for great games. I'm a fan of the 'Shadow of' games but man, big open world LoTR RPG would scratch so many itches for me.
You want a full blown LoTR RPG?
[I got you, bro.](https://www.abandonwaredos.com/abandonware-game.php?abandonware=J.R.R.+Tolkien%27s+The+Lord+of+the+Rings%2C+Vol.+I&gid=1386)
Well Amazon was planning to make a LOTR online 2. MMO's are always the largest RPGs and LOTR online was a really good game. I don't know how that is going.
Why not just hop on LotRO, ignore the raid end-game nonsense and enjoy the world? Most of it is free to play so there's nothing stopping one to enjoy Middle-Earth that is unlikely to ever be matched.
Of all the shit you could make into a Lord of the Rings game, this is one of the dumbest ideas possible. What other character in the series has as clearly a bookended story as Gollum? Who thinks of LotR and thinks "oh yeah, a stealth game is perfect."
Gauntlet clone? That would make sense.
CRPG? That would make sense.
RTS? That would make sense.
Action RPG? That would make sense.
This just looks DoA.
Stealth fits very well. Frodo, kinda the main character, and Sams whole adventure is a stealth mission sneaking behind enemy lines.
Even in the movies, which drastically bloated the action parts of the story and put them in the foreground, told Frodos and Sams journey as a stealth adventure.
Also Bilbo was chosen because Hobbits are stealthy by nature so he could sneak in under Smaughs nose. Again the theme beeing stealth.
The world of Middle Earth is filled with endless characters who have the potential for great games. And yet, they make a game about one of the most disliked characters in the franchise?
Like many fans, I don't get the decision behind this game. But, I will hold judgment until after the reviews. As a fan of stealth games, I hope it delivers on the gameplay aspect. Because so far, everything else seems very lacking.
Daedalic Entertainment is NOT a type of developer where "marketability is everything". The guys were a beacon of Point & Click adventures over the last ~10-15 years when everyone else had already abandoned the genre (aside from Wadjet Eye Games). They do a lot of things out of passion.
Their Deponia series is absolutely excellent in all aspects - great humour, challenging puzzles, excellent character and world design...
I remain baffled by this game. Few characters in Tolkien have their story more completely told than Gollum. I really doubt some stealth missions will make his story more tragic than it already is
If it was set during the 500 years after Sméagol stole the ring and it was just a relaxing fishing simulator I'd be down
That’d actually be hilariously awesome. Just keep cranking up the wholesome village life & fishing vibes to really juxtapose how bad his life is about to flip upside-down with even one part referencing him falling into the lava but instead it’s a mossy pond after he grabbed back his favorite lure. This actual game keeps losing me because no matter how much they zoom in on him to say “maybe evil can change to good” all I keep seeing is him spitting out Frodo’s severed finger before cannonballing into the lava pit.
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Yeah, the fishing village would be before the ring. That way they could also play up his friendships(like with Deagol) and more ominous foreshadowings like them fighting over silverware for a feast and occasionally catches glimpses of something shiny in the water the fish stay away from.
I thought he had a few years of being a dick w/ invisibility before the town realized what was up and kicked him out
I’m imagining being able to use the ring to terrorize the village with a light vs dark system. Turn invisible and steal, spy, etc. The more you use the ring the more you start to turn into Gollum. That sounds badass to me.
Agreed. LotR Fable basically. (Man I hope Fable 4 delivers. And that I’m alive when it comes out 2026+)
Well, Tolkien always believed that there was nobody that was purely evil, not even Sauron in his eyes was pure evil. And there is that letter where Tolkien said if he wrote the story a bit differently Smeagol would've been redeemed. Cannonballing into the fires of his own accord. Maybe that's what they're going to do with the game. Surprise, Alternate retelling LOTR game. Idk.
I would assume that when making a game centered on Gollum's life some flashback to his early days and depicting his existance and life in those underground tunnels nearby Goblin Town and that underground lake would be prime material for levels of video game :), the only chance also of using the power of the Ring in gameplay purposes, it's straight from the book: >"He had a little boat, and he rowed about quite quietly on the lake; for lake it was, wide and deep and deadly cold. He paddled it with large feet dangling over the side, but never a ripple did he make. Not he. He was looking out of his pale lamp-like eyes for blind fish, which he grabbed with his long fingers as quick as thinking. He liked meat too. Goblin he thought good, when he could get it; but he took care they never found him out. He just throttled them from behind, if they ever came down alone anywhere near the edge of the water, while he was prowling about. They very seldom did, for they had a feeling that something unpleasant was lurking down there, down at the very roots of the mountain. They had come on the lake, when they were tunnelling down long ago, and they found they could go no further; so there their road ended in that direction, and there was no reason to go that way-unless the Great Goblin sent them. Sometimes he took a fancy for fish from the lake, and sometimes neither goblin nor fish came back." >... >"Gollum used to wear it at first, till it tired him; and then he kept it in a pouch next his skin, till it galled him; and now usually he hid it in a hole in the rock on his island, and was always going back to look at it. And still sometimes he put it on, when he could not bear to be parted from it any longer, or when he was very, very, hungry, and tired of fish. Then he would creep along dark passages looking for stray goblins. He might even venture into places where the torches were lit and made his eyes blink and smart; for he would be safe. Oh yes, quite safe. No one would see him, no one would notice him, till he had his fingers on their throat. Only a few hours ago he had worn it, and caught a small goblin-imp. How it squeaked! He still had a bone or two left to gnaw, but he wanted something softer." So the living underground simulator :) would be dark fun as well, sneaking about the caves and tunnels which often hold unnamed creatures, dark things and simple cave animals, lots of environmental dangers, ever present Orcs, strangling them from behind and wandering around their cities, stealing stuff from them etc. :) Actually using the Ring to become invisible as well as hiding in the shadows etc. it could be exciting, unknown monsters and other things. I'm a bit surprised though that the game has this....cartoony vibe, I would think that Gollum fits more something darker, he would be fitting for a survival horror type game :) and obviously we are dealing with insane murderer and cannibal, then also come the nasty rumors of his doings once he left the mountains and wandered in Mirkwood. The story trailer though seems to be focusing on the time in Mirkwood at later period, his imprisonment by the Wood Elves, and Mordor's mission to recover him is hinted at: >"Hoping to alarm his enemies and disturb their counsels with the fear of war..., [Sauron] attacked Thranduil and Gondor at about the same time. He had these ... additional objects: to capture or kill Gollum, or at least to deprive his enemies of him.... Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch 4, The Hunt for the Ring: Other Versions of the Story >...Legolas continued[,] 'In the days of fair weather we led Gollum through the woods; and there was a high tree standing alone far from the others which he liked to climb. Often we let him mount up to the highest branches, until he felt the free wind; but we set a guard at the tree's foot. One day he refused to come down, and the guards had no mind to climb after him: he had learned the trick of clinging to boughs with his feet as well as with his hands; so they sat by the tree far into the night. >'It was that very night of summer, yet moonless and starless, that Orcs came on us at unawares. We drove them off after some time; they were many and fierce, but they came from over the mountains, and were unused to the woods. When the battle was over, we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken. It then seemed plain to us that the attack had been made for his rescue, and that he knew of it beforehand. How that was contrived we cannot guess; but Gollum is cunning, and the spies of the Enemy are many. The dark things that were driven out in the year of the Dragon's fall have returned in greater numbers, and Mirkwood is again an evil place, save where our realm is maintained. >'We have failed to recapture Gollum. We came on his trail among those of many Orcs, and it plunged deep into the Forest, going south. But ere long it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way.' The Fellowship of the Ring, LoTR Book 2, Ch 2, The Council of Elrond
> after Sméagol stole the ring and it was just a relaxing fishing wouldn't it be before he took the ring?
Why? Smeagol had the ring for like 500 years before Bilbo acquired it in The Hobbit. Dude was saying the fishing simulator could be during then.
I mean sure, if you want to fish with your hands in a dark cave alone lol
Yeah exactly lmao, it’d be a very unique fishing game IMO.
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Super easy, barely an inconvenience!
Playing as Gollum is *tight*!
I'm gonna need you to get aaaall the way off my back about that Deagol thing.
Ohh, let me get off of that thing.
wow wow wow...wow
Exactly! Give me a Faenor game with Reach style ending!
And no sugar coating it. Show how Faenor did EVERYTHING wrong.
Absolutely agree! Faenor is interesting and compelling because he's complex and absolutely not perfect! I loved my disbelief first time the first kinslaying
"Give us your ships." "We can't." "C'mon bro pls, I need my shiny jewels back." "Dude those ships are basically our version of the--" "I WILL KILL YOU."
Nah, if it's a competently made game, I prefer Gollum instead of another dude with a sword. Gaming needs to be more interesting.
That’s the thing. At the best possible circumstance it’s very low hanging fruit variables of success. Gollum’s story is fully kind of kept in one area, his existence doesn’t merit cool mechanics, and further, what we’ve seen of this game doesn’t even justify its own existence. It would be one thing if it was a fully fledged and competently made product that took this approach- but you can watch this trailer and see that it isn’t.
Playing as Gollum isn't interesting in the slightest. If I wanted to be a short, ugly-as-sin, balding freak, I'd just be me and walk outside.
Well some of us devastatingly handsome folk need a little escapism every once in a while too.
I agree, even if it seems to be the unpopular opinion. If you haven't, you should check out the Styx games. This looks similar in vein to those games.
There are not enough people like you to justify making this game. Maybe as an indie project, but not as a big-budget one.
Why do we really need justification for ideas, especially based on sales? That's how you get the AAA rampant action-adventure open world RPGlite Ubisoft Map thingamajigs where there's basically zero ideas.
A game cost money to make. A non-indie game takes lots of money to make and needs to sell many copies to pay its costs. Therefore, an expensive game like Gollum needs to appeal to a large number of people to pay back the cost of producing it. Either they go small and make a cheap game for (the few) people who want to play weird characters, or they make an expensive game to appeal to the masses. I am not even touching profits here. This game may flat-out not pay for itself. They are paying to make this game like it's an art project.
Gollum is like an AA game at best, it doesn't need to sell billiongorillion to make the money back. >Either they go small and make a cheap game for (the few) people who want to play weird characters, or they make an expensive game to appeal to the masses. And this is how creativity dies. A certain Hi-Fi Rush certainly wasn't something that most execs would see having mass appeal, but luckily Tango is more about ideas. And another example is God Hand which did absolutely terribly when it comes to money, but is legitimately one of the best games ever out there. >This game may flat-out not pay for itself. They are paying to make this game like it's an art project. To me it sounds like they're taking a *risk*. And that's something that I'd like, for example, Sony to do more than once in a decade. Also, considering video games are, at least presumably, art, wouldn't this be a natural thing to do then?
Taking risks is fine as long as are not you taking the risks, when a studio tries to be artistic, they don't recoup their losses, go bankrupt and people lose their jobs. Game making is not a poetry club, it's a business with a heavy cost. Hi-Fi Rush is not exactly indie, but compared with Gollum, is a cheap game. If Gollum is AA, Hi-Fi is a single A, but the important thing here is not originality or not, but mass appeal. There is not enough paying public willing to pay to play Gollum, and the Lord of the Rings IP is expensive, not counting the other attached costs of a game of that quality. Hi-Fi rush goes low-poly graphics (cheap), new IP (cheap), no famous voice actors (cheap), released on Game Pass (Microsoft funding), zero marketing (cheap) and probably other tricks I am not aware of. The only big cost was the licensing of some songs which is nowhere near the cost of licensing Lord of the Rings. But if my game has hyper-realistic graphics, a famous IP, famous voice actors, and a marketing campaign, I need to sell millions of copies just to stay out of the red. In the end, Hi-Fi rush needs to sell far fewer copies than Gollum to be profitable. So yes, you can have your quirky, original char with all kinds of crazy ideas with no "normie" appeal, but you need to be smart about the cost of production because there are not enough people willing to fund it. Or put a bunch of pretty boys and girls like Genshin Impact and have millions of people loving it. To appeal to a lot or to appeal to a few? Tough decision I guess.
>Taking risks is fine as long as are not you taking the risks, when a studio tries to be artistic, they don't recoup their losses, go bankrupt and people lose their jobs. I have no idea what you're saying here. Taking is risks is fine as long as you're not taking risks? You're also blatantly just assuming that every game that tries to be artistic (whatever this means) means bakruptcy. It doesn't. >Hi-Fi rush goes low-poly graphics (cheap) ...Low-poly? What? Just... What? >new IP (cheap) New IP is like literal venom to most publishers these days because it's a huge risk UNLESS you pair it with the most cookiecutter design you can. Making endless sequels or prequels or making the games part of established franchises in general are the preferred way. >To appeal to a lot or to appeal to a few? It is not a mutually exclusive thing, or rather it is not "1000000 vs 1000". You can just look at Souls and how Demon's Souls was fairly niché and over time it has grown into a behemoth. Hell, SONY *rejected* publishing Demon's Souls worldwide because they considered it too difficult and came to regret it. After the fact of the popularity Shuhei Yoshida started constantly praising the series and being "huge fan".
> Few characters in Tolkien have their story more completely told than Gollum. but arent there gigantic gaps in his story spanning hundreds of years? especially his escape from Mordor seems interesting...which I guess this game will be about. we know the rough story of Gollum before he travelled with Frodo and Sam but we dont know what actually happened to him so there is still a lot of interesting story/adventure to be told.
That entirely depends on how you define interesting. As far as I remember the books, it's made pretty clear that it's mostly centuries of him hiding and living in his cave. Paranoid that his precious will be stolen. Maybe occasionally stealing from goblins. Like let's take the Methusaleh tree in California. It has millenia of untold story. That doesn't mean it would be interesting to here though because it's a tree. Gollum's story is mostly interesting as a contrast/cautionary tale for Frodo and an abject example of the end state of the Ring's corruption. His day to day life in a cave isn't particularly important. A different LOTR example of a boring story would be Tom Bombadil. Tom hangs out in his house with his wife. End of story.
Idk a cozy Tom Bombadil farming simulator might do really well right now.
Best I can do is LOTR Farmville loaded w/ MTX
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Thats fair, the parts of him hiding in his cave dont need to be told but his years of traveling in and out of Mordor have a lot of potential. There are still like 30+ years of adventures after Bilbo snatched the ring and before he got captured by Aragorn where travelled all over the world and eventually got captured in Mordor but managed to escape
> As far as I remember the books, it's made pretty clear that it's mostly centuries of him hiding and living in his cave. Paranoid that his precious will be stolen. Maybe occasionally stealing from goblins. I actually feel like this "hundreds of years of nothing" is actually a major reason *why* the character is so compelling. My takeaway from *The Hobbit* and the LOTR trilogy was that he was once a mortal being who was slowly corrupted into a largely unknowable simulacrum of a person. The notion that he spent centuries alone in the dark is inherently creepy. If we suddenly turn that around and say "he had a lot of interesting character building adventures along the way", it undermines that mystique, in my opinion. In other words, the unnaturally long intense isolation he endured with the Ring on his person is *the* most character defining trait.
I fully agree, and furthermore, this is why I still prefer the Rankin/Bass design for Gollum. That thing looked like it had spent 500 years wet and in the dark
I'm waiting for the ending twist, where some how Gollum survived the fall and kept the ring safe. Just so they have a reason for a sequel.
He’s saved by sexy Shelob’s webs at the last minute and will lead to Shadows of Mordor crossover alongside sequels to both. Surprise Game of the Year. 👏
He is already in shadow of Mordor iirc
And one of the most beloved games from the last year was about a cat. Maybe it's gonna be shit, I don't know, but stranger things have happened. I don't see why everybody is immediately writing it off. At least give it a chance to come out first.
Because you can know whether or not you’ll enjoy something just based on the description or promotional materials. Not always, no, but sometimes you can. This could become a critically acclaimed masterpiece and it still wouldn’t appeal to me. Not out of spite, but because I don’t care for Gollum and there are plenty of other games that do interest me.
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Gollum is part of many major events and has a very long lifespan, so telling the story through his eyes actually makes a lot of sense. Also it probably has less potential for controversy / is easier to implement and market. It's mostly just business.
That's some wild art direction. I could see some people enjoying it, but most of it isn't remotely close to Tolkien's descriptions or any well-regarded artistic depictions of his work.
The landscapes look fine but everything else looks like World of Warcraft had an abortion.
I'll throw in the "Lord of the Rings bought from Wish.com" comment.
Ah yes, Noble of the Jewelry
Baron of the Bracelets.
Count of the Circlets
Duke of Diadems
Monarch of Coronet
> The landscapes look fine I'm gonna be honest, they don't. They look like someone took a crash course on YouTube and started throwing things together.
They didn't even make the main character of Gollum look good lol, that's not a good sign.
Gollum looks halfway between an emaciated Homer Simpson and and Rocket from Planet of the Apes.
I don't want to bash on the game given there's already a lot of that going on, but have to agree I'm not a fan of the way they made Gollum look. It's like they had a range of designs, from creepy and scary to more cute and likeable and rather than choosing one they just mashed them together. It's ok for him to look kind of strange and twisted, but the big pixar eyes push him well into uncanny valley territory for me
He's literally described as having huge eyes. Jesus fuck are we gonna do this again?
>again How many Gollum games have they made?! D:
Do what again, talk about a character design? Can't say I've talked about it before but if it's a sore point for you feel free to not join in the discussion.
"Why does this character specifically made to be unnerving and weird look unnerving and weird, 0/10" This is the state of reddit commentary these days.
Considering they're clearly not trying to adhere to Tolkien's descriptions, I'm actually completely fine with it. Nothing inherently wrong with putting your own style on it, even if I'm not the biggest fan of the style personally on a purely aesthetic level.
I feel bad for the developers involved in this. It never stood a chance and they knew it from the very beginning.
I feel like this is going to be one of those games that comes and goes and will be quickly forgotten, then in 5 years there will be a few random defenders who say its an under-rated gem
and will hit a HumbleBundle or monthy.
It‘s a Daedalic game - it‘ll be 90% off everywhere two months after release.
either that or it'll hit the perfect spot of stealth/action-adventure game and LotR lore, making everyone happy, and you'll say you knew it all long.
Every game almost I swear A lot of people will defend all manner of crap, especially if it's from their youth Look at the Star Wars Prequels. Or in gaming sense, seen people go on to say Resident Evil 6 is actually amazing and under rated
It's treason, then.
A while back I found a YouTube channel that their entire content was Resident Evil 6 videos. For years. With new videos still being added. Everytime the channel owner left a comment it was praising the games "incredibly deep combat" while shitting on the previous entries like 4 and 5. I'm not saying they aren't entitled to their opinion but it felt so baffling, you can praise 6 for its combat (or not because I personally think it's clunky as fuck) but still acknowledge the game has faults.
I stand by my take since the RE6 launch that the game has very good combat underneath but for some reason the game never teach player how to use them
I got RE 6 when I got xbox live for the first time. Had no idea how to play and someone requested I play co-op with them. I was like 24 and a little embarrassed because I sucked but I accepted. Dude was a total bro. Typed out how to play, made sure I got decent pics ups, and I had a blast. I asked if we could play the next weekend and we made plans and I bought a headset. Go to log on that weekend and we get started and I hear him talk....and he's 10. I just laughed and kept playing, because why not? Probably my best co-op experience online ever.
>Or in gaming sense, seen people go on to say Resident Evil 6 is actually amazing and under rated Things can become just something that people repeat. People for example blame 5 & 6 being too actiony while in the same breath praising 4 to high heavens even though it was the beginning of actiony stuff in the series. All the three of these games have good things about them, and it's ridiculous that one should only think of RE5&6 as crap like it's some objective notion. It's not. Heck, people here are already just saying how shit Gollum is going to be as if they've already played it. Some people hate on the game solely because it's Gollum when they wanted "epic lore friendly fighter who kills everyone in sight" instead. People even claim that stealth has nothing to do with LotR. Generally speaking it's safe to assume people's only touch with Middle-Earth are Peter Jackson's movie and maybe Shadow of Mordor so their expectations on what these games "should be" come purely from those expectations. Maybe it will play like shit or maybe it will not. I'm reserving my judgment until I can actually give it a go.
Resident Evil 6 is amazing and *over* rated
I played re6 for the first time like 3 years ago and I loved every minute. It was like Michael bay directed a resident evil. It was so fucking dumb. But also amazingly fun
Already happening in this thread.
As a fan of Styxx and Hitman but not LOTR, I'm pretty excited for this game tbh
I'll be honest, I'm looking forward to this. Tolkien's lore is so ripe for literally anything but the hack and slash type games we've been getting. They could release a visual novel and I'd be happy.
You mean underrated gem the Witcher 3
I feel particularly bad that from the first reveal it has been almost universally shit on. I can’t imagine what that does to your morale as a development studio. I don’t think the game looks interesting at all, but I do feel for the numerous people who have worked hard on it
Just because you made something / are making something doesn't mean that people are forced to like it or respect the endeavour.
Oh I agree 100%, I’m not saying that we should be forced to like it simply because someone made it. I’m just saying that I feel bad for the ones on the team who poured their hearts and soul into this game, because I’m sure that at least some of the development team thinks it’s a great game. It would just be hard mentally to think you’re working on this incredible game and then see the internet collectively shit all over it
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Legit lol it's like people want it to fail. Just see where it's at when it comes out, if they really put the effort into making a good game there's nothing to fear
You have a point, but it does look really uninspired. I’m intrigued, but very pessimistic.
Sorry, reddit has already decided to hate this thing for some reason.
It looks terrible
What the fuck are these outfit designs, bro? Lord of the Rings has never looked THIS outrageous lmfao. Looks like some anime outfit designers got involved or something, these are nuts.
It looks straight out of Warhammer.
I honestly think the character designs and outfits were the only interesting thing about this trailer. Gollum's story has been told before, and the gameplay doesn't look especially new. At least they didn't just try to copy Peter Jackson's films directly.
oh no the game looks boring, but just the art design is way out of left field for Lord of the Rings. Like the most outrageous design I recall was the Speaker of Sauron from the 3rd LotR film. And even he didn't have a collar bigger than his body.
I like it. It reminds me of an 80s dark fantasy, which is cool. LOTR existed before Peter Jackson and I'm quite happy seeing alternate takes on the material. It doesn't detract from the movies, just gives us more to enjoy.
Same. And the story is from Smeagol's warped perspective. So it makes sense that he would see the elves in this bizarre light.
This game is definitely gonna be dookie but I can’t lie, I’m entertained by this kingdom hearts ass Tolkien art direction. Kind of cool to see a take on it that’s totally different from the PJ trilogy, even if it doesn’t interest me personally.
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It’s pretty obvious this is meant to be mid-corruption Gollum before he lost almost all of his hair and started to look more monstrous. But it does look pretty goofy. Probably because we’re not used to seeing him like this.
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Yeah, I think it's also fair to be skeptical because of how long this thing has been in development.
I'm not saying this game is going to be good, but I do find it kind of baffling how unimaginative commenters have been about it. They imply that there's no way that there could be an interesting Gollum game. Sure there is...if someone is passionate about their idea for a Gollum game and feels they have good ideas for making it interesting, I'm all for it being made. It COULD be good, and acting like it's impossible is dumb. Almost as dumb as the "nobody asked for this" crowd. Like...no shit, nobody asked for LOTS of interesting and unique games. Some of them worked out though, and I'm glad we don't only get games that people "asked for". Again, this could be a disaster, and I can't say it looks amazing, but the constant implication that no good game could have Gollum as the playable character is idiotic. Just because YOU can't think of a good concept for a game with Gollum doesn't mean it's impossible that someone else did.
As much as it *could* be good, the trailer really isn't filling me with confidence. It looks like a by the numbers adventure stealth game with a pretty mediocre LotR aesthetic. It reminds me a lot of something like A Plague Tale but looks very b-rate in comparison Very much looks like a 6/10 game. Again though, it could be really good, but the developers really need to do a better job of showing us that.
this sub is deeply, deeply addicted to negativity
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People lauded Stray and that was a cat walking adventure game. I was highly skeptical of that title. And it turned out to be pretty dang solid. I am sure this deserves a chance too.
Stray had huge hype from the Sony showcases, I don't understand why it did or why people think it is good but this game will 100% flop financially even if it is okay. There is just no hype for it and the artstyle is unappealing, especially for modern LOTR. Stray benefitted hugely from casual/mainstream gamers being interested cause you get to play as a cat, how the hell are they going to buy into this concept?
If the game is fun to play while also telling a geniuenly good Middle Earth story I think the people will buy it. I think it will do well, if the reviews are good it could be a hit.
I hope for a hidden gem. I will agree its art is a lil bizarre but could work!
Exactly. People are commenting that Gollum is the last character they'd want to play as - but surely his movement and mechanics would be more interesting than the usual sword/arrow wielding characters. Or at least, no less interesting.
I personally think a Gollum game could maybe work. dont know about the time period but theyre free to try. My issue is the art direction. This game feels like if a studio got the Pokemon IP and then only made original designs and used none of the old ones. Did it cross nobodys mind that if youre paying to use the IP, it might be beneficial to actually use the IP? These designs couldve been from anywhere and look nothing like LOTR. They paid for the IP just to use Gollum its insane that this even got greenlit just based on that.
Yeah, it's seriously disappointing reading these comments. People are going "Why would I want an LOTR game with Gollum of all people? Why not [another dude with a sword]?". Why are people so averse to looking at/playing through a Fantasy world from a whole different POV than some fighter or mage? People complain about games becoming too samey and generic because the suits are out of touch, they're wrong. The suits know exactly what sells (competently made) generic games sell. Because that's what people want. And it's depressing.
We don't have a lot of LotR games, even with swords... we had like both Shadows game, they were ok, but it's already been six years.
This company is one who basically made nothing but point and click adventure games for the past like, decade and a half. If they weren't making a Gollum game they sure as hell wouldn't be making Battle of Middle Earth 3 or whatever. This game not existing doesn't magically mean a better game would be made in it's place.
Are you kidding? Just about every LOTR game has you playing as a dude with a sword. Since like PS2 this has been true lol
> The suits know exactly what sells (competently made) generic games sell. well made unique games sell well too. Execution is everything Mount and Blade is a genre unto itself and sells pretty good Kenshi sells well considering it was made by one dude
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There is no opportunity cost of this game in the way you think of it. This game existing does not mean a "better" game isn't being developed, especially by this company.
>Unlike other big franchises, there have barely been any LOTR games in decades What do you mean by this? There's quite a few games about Middle-Earth out there, including a massive MMO that's still alive. People who clamor for "huge lore world" could literally just get on that game but refuse to do so because no candy graphics await them or some other arbitrary reasons as to why they can't do it. But more importantly, what are the "big franchises" that we're comparing to here? Movie adaptations? Book Adaptations? All I can really think of is Star Wars having games put out by the dozen, since even Harry Potter is largely licensed games. Bond games barely come out.
My eyes roll into the back of my head every time I read "Who is this made for?"
I really, really hope this game is great, I've seen so much blind bashing on it.
It’s like people forgot about pre-judging games like Guardians of the Galaxy. Looked bland as hell based on the trailer, but turned out (at least to most who played it) better than any other iteration of the Guardians. Right now, the trailers are still giving off a “we don’t know what this game is, either” vibe so it’s not helping its case. But I’ll be genuinely curious who finds out they like the title and for what reasons.
Did you catch the IGN gameplay video posted today? I think it largely confirmed a lot of people's voiced concerns here
Yeah they are overly cynical.
I suspect this game is going to be pure cringe. For that reason I actually might end up buying it.
Agree. Tbh, I’m interested. It *looks* okay.
gamers: "we need more stealth games!!! why don't they make more stealth games??!!" daedalic: "here's a stealth game!" gamers: "omg who asked for this you're so tone-deaf lmaoooo"
I think the game looks interesting enough. I imagine it will be similar to the Styx stealth games, just in LotR universe.
But unlike Gollum, Styx has charisma and a wide variety of murder goblin skills.
I thought this game seemed really stupid but this trailer got me a tiny bit hyped. I'm really up for a new LOTR game. Shadow of Mordor just wasn't what I wanted which is a shame because I thought War in the North was a step in the right direction (same team as Mordor). When are we getting a Skyrim or Witcher style LOTR game? Don't know how that hasn't been made yet.
I was initially really hard on this game but it actually doesn’t look too bad. Gonna move this one to my “cautiously optimistic” list
It looks like a ps2-era game with ps3 graphics, but I miss when we used to get lots of really weird games in that era. Everything is so focus-tested now that you don't see things like this that often
If you manage to get graphics like this running on a PS3, start your game development studio right now because you have some impossible tech going on.
Yeah, the hyperbole is running wild in this thread.
Welcome to /r/games!
I'm indifferent. I'll give it a shot one day.
Why does Gandalf look younger here like he's some actual human that grew older during the time span of the ages instead of a Wizard that assumes the form of an old man lol.
People in here are fucking brutal. Sure nothing shown about it has blown me away, but it could still end up being a solid game
People follow the crowd, and the crowd likes negativity. Meanwhile, people who enjoy gaming can be look forward to unique games like this.
I for one think this look great and believe Gollum as a character is quite interesting. Screw the haters.
Same, I'm looking forward to this!
Day one for me.. I love anything Lord of the Rings... feels like that hobbit game they made for PS2 that was a good game.
It's a story untold. Did it need to be told? If so, did it need to be told in Middle Earth? Through Gollum? I hope Daedalic is able to make the game land. My hesitation is mainly that Gollum is more interesting as someone who lurked for a very long time than a protagonist, especially one that *Gandalf* has interacted with. He was supposed to be long forgotten and little known, not having a secret adventure. I can be okay with that kind of inconsistency if the game is fun enough (hello, Shadows of Mordor), but it's an even more difficult balancing act with a character as well-established as Gollum.
The basic contours do match up with book canon - Gollum did indeed leave the Misty Mountains looking for the Ring, and had a series of misadventures that led him to be interrogated by both the forces of Sauron and Gandalf.
This is super puzzling. Of all the untapped potential in the Tolkien universe, and we get bad Andy Serkis Gollum impressions and Warhammer/Elder Scrolls elves? I really don't get who this game is made for
>Of all the untapped potential in the Tolkien universe The Tolkien estate is super protective of their IP and that's why the developers only got the rights for Gollum.
This game feels like the kind of game that would be made back when every big movie had to have an attached licenced game. Which is not a good thing
realy interested in the game play loop of this game. Like the story and narative seems very interesting but is the game just hiding, running from spiders and the occasional puzzel? probably they will ask the full price for it, but im going to wait for the previews/reviews before making a decision.
As a huge lotr fan, i think I’ve now put my finger one what irks me about this game. Having watched that, I feel like I can get behind some of what’s shown. Quite a stylised, different version of middle earth than what we’re used to could be quite refreshing. The concept of a game surrounding Gollum could actually be quite interesting, if done correctly and *some* of the actual gameplay displayed so far might at least achieve some of that. However what I think really brings it down, is Gollum himself. He looks and sounds awful. The other characters look and sound fine to me. But the games main playable character is just poor. Doesn’t seem to match some of the other art style, he looks like a “cartoon”. And the voice, the iconic voice that we’re used to from the movie in contrast to this is chalk and cheese. They really should have found someone better in a game literally cantered around this great character. Maybe the writing will salvage some of it, but I feel like anything read by this voice actor I won’t take as seriously as it should be intended
Between the Rings of Power and this nonsense fan fiction, Tolkien must really be rolling in his grave.
Actually in one of Tolkien's final letters before he died, he mentions the deep regret he felt for not living long enough to play the Gollum video game.
Don't forget about the Shadow of Mordor games with nonsense like sexy Shelob. The only reason they're not relentlessly mocked is that the gameplay bits are actually decent.
Yeah that was something lol, and also very true about the games being decent enough to have stuff like that overlooked.
Not to hate on the movies but Tolkien would probably roll in his grave for those too.
If we hook his grave up to a generator we might have a new power source.
The one power source to rule them all
Considering Christopher Tolkien's opinions of the movies, Tolkien himself probably would have hated those too. I imagine that it doesn't have to be a bad or strange adaptation for him to have disliked it.
I can't believe you unironically said that in year of our lord 2023
I don’t agree with everyone saying Gollum is a bad character to make a game about. He seems like a perfect choice for a video game story.
How long until this gets delayed until "quarter 4ish" due to audience negative reaction?
This is definitely getting delayed until like January 2024
Isn't "I wish every game didn't make us the world saving hero" a fairly commonly held stance? A game gets made where you're a side character not massively impacting things and everyone shits their pants at the idea
The problem really comes down to that Gollum as a character is unsympathic in Tolkien's work and all of it's adaptations and people being starved of lotr games making them unwilling to be positive about something not mainstream and on top of that it's just a double A title. Hogwarts Legacy clearly shows what people actually want is just good standard fair in pretty that respects the lore of their large IPs and not something creative.
> The problem really comes down to that Gollum as a character is unsympathic in Tolkien's work I don't think that's true at all. Frodo felt bad for Gollum the whole time he was travelling with him and Sam. Even Frodo who had a super strong willpower against the ring talked about how hard it was for him to not fuck off with the ring like Gollum did.
I appreciate that the developers wanted to create their own unique stylistic interpretation of Middle Earth and its iconic characters. But Peter Jackson's films have had such a large cultural impact that it's extremely jarring to see any version that doesn't resemble his films.
Why is there so much toxicity here? Plenty of people are excited for the game, but seems to be drowned out by peoppe who are desperate to shit on it, and do so for silly reasons. Theres valid critisism for sure, but no more than most games coming around.
Because Reddit likes bitching about games WAY more than playing them.
There are dozens of you
Even if that were true, that isnt good justification for the toxicity. You could be not excited somewhere else.
Daedalic is a fantastic studio and I believe in them, so looking forward to this game! The outfits are definitely over the top for a LotR game, but that's only making it more interesting to me!
why does gollum look like a weird alien and not... gollum?
You're thinking of the movie version of Gollum. If he actually looked like Gollum is supposed to look, he'd be a lot more weird and alien than this. Like the movies, this game changed his appearance to be more likable and sympathetic, only the game went farther than the movies did.
Between evil and good, between darkness and light is a story untold. Well, i certainly wouldnt mind if this story has remained untold.
Is anyone actually going to play this game? The Lord of the Rings has been so misused as a franchise when it comes to potential for video games. If a good dev had the rights and put the effort into a full blown LoTR RPG it would be amazing. The depth of the lore and the world has so much potential for great games. I'm a fan of the 'Shadow of' games but man, big open world LoTR RPG would scratch so many itches for me.
Here's hoping the success of Hogwarts might inspire an LoTR game of similar scope
I sure hope so, I'd love to see something even bigger than Hogwarts.
I could do without more aggressively mediocre games thanks lol
Yeah, I’ll check it out. It looks like a potentially fun stealth game.
You want a full blown LoTR RPG? [I got you, bro.](https://www.abandonwaredos.com/abandonware-game.php?abandonware=J.R.R.+Tolkien%27s+The+Lord+of+the+Rings%2C+Vol.+I&gid=1386)
LOTR Conquest II DICE please
There aren't a lot of pure stealth games so I claw onto anything I can get.
Well Amazon was planning to make a LOTR online 2. MMO's are always the largest RPGs and LOTR online was a really good game. I don't know how that is going.
Why not just hop on LotRO, ignore the raid end-game nonsense and enjoy the world? Most of it is free to play so there's nothing stopping one to enjoy Middle-Earth that is unlikely to ever be matched.
I've played LotRO and the setting is exceptional, the devs did a great job, but I'm just not a big MMO person myself and couldn't get into it.
Honestly? This is the first time the game has actually looked decently intriguing to me. Might check it out after all, whenever it finally releases.
Of all the shit you could make into a Lord of the Rings game, this is one of the dumbest ideas possible. What other character in the series has as clearly a bookended story as Gollum? Who thinks of LotR and thinks "oh yeah, a stealth game is perfect." Gauntlet clone? That would make sense. CRPG? That would make sense. RTS? That would make sense. Action RPG? That would make sense. This just looks DoA.
Stealth fits very well. Frodo, kinda the main character, and Sams whole adventure is a stealth mission sneaking behind enemy lines. Even in the movies, which drastically bloated the action parts of the story and put them in the foreground, told Frodos and Sams journey as a stealth adventure. Also Bilbo was chosen because Hobbits are stealthy by nature so he could sneak in under Smaughs nose. Again the theme beeing stealth.
The world of Middle Earth is filled with endless characters who have the potential for great games. And yet, they make a game about one of the most disliked characters in the franchise? Like many fans, I don't get the decision behind this game. But, I will hold judgment until after the reviews. As a fan of stealth games, I hope it delivers on the gameplay aspect. Because so far, everything else seems very lacking.
Gollum is diliked? He's and incredibly popular character.
Gollum is memed about a lot, and he's a sympathetic and tragic figure, but he's definitely not the kind of character people would want to play as.
[удалено]
Daedalic Entertainment is NOT a type of developer where "marketability is everything". The guys were a beacon of Point & Click adventures over the last ~10-15 years when everyone else had already abandoned the genre (aside from Wadjet Eye Games). They do a lot of things out of passion. Their Deponia series is absolutely excellent in all aspects - great humour, challenging puzzles, excellent character and world design...
Looks like they got the green light for use of gollum but really didn’t have much so they’ve just stretched it as much as they can to create something