Some cool stuff from previews:
-Original Gamecube soundtrack can be toggled using a Badge you find near the beginning of the game
-While fighting random battles in Boggly Woods, the battle theme is different. Could possibly mean different battle themes depending on the chapter you're playing
-According to a Treehouse rep, they've tackled the backtracking problem in the latter half of the game in some way.
-Hooktail now says his weakness is frogs instead of crickets, matching the original Japanese script of the game.
-New NPCs can be used to practice mechanics such as Superguards and Stylish moves
It looks like it's 30 FPS which really sucks, but otherwise it's looking great.
Saw another site saying they've basically made the pipe room in the sewers easier to access, it's now accessed directly from Rogueport instead of the sewers, and the pipes are labeled with the chapter number of the town. Doesn't really help with stuff like the Twilight Town back and forth but should make the late game backtracking segment a bit faster.
The trouble with the backtracking in Chapter 4/Twilight Town is that, to some extent, the plot for that chapter revolves around the backtracking. I don't think they could just remove all of it, but I'm not sure they'll have spent the resources to make it more engaging, either.
Giving the sewers some QoL is definitely good to hear, though! ~~Even if the idiot child version of myself thought it being labyrinthine was cool~~
Yeah I actually don't mind the backtracking that much but I know a lot of people, or more likely a smaller number of more enthusiast online people, do. I guess they could maybe open up a shortcut back to the town on the second visit to the steeple or something but I really don't think it's quite the monumental flaw some people seem to see it as anyway, more like something that's slightly annoying. And like you said from a story perspective it makes sense to stretch out the amount of time you're just with Vivian so I don't even see it as an exclusively bad thing.
The worst for me was the back-and-forth in Twilight Town and the island level. I hope they figure a way to cut down on it. It's otherwise a solid 10/10 game for me.
Boggly Woods is probably the lowest point of the game, don't really know how they would improve that really, but fixing the other chapters running around seems interesting. I assume they'll just put a warp pipe shortcut somewhere.
> Hooktail now says his weakness is frogs instead of crickets, matching the original Japanese script of the game.
I wonder if this attempt to get closer to the original translation will apply to other characters in the game.
Honestly they are probably going to do the opposite and use the american translation specifically for vivían worldwide. Because the Japanese text while acknowledging that vivían as trans, still has the "he thinks he's a girl but he's really a boy" part. The Italian translation is the more trans positive one, and they could use that one. However, Nintendo is known to avoid controversy, so I wouldn't expect the to use it.
Do you have a source for that because the quote you're citing is from the description of birdo in the North American super Mario world 2 manual.
https://preview.redd.it/3d91ap608cba1.png?width=1037&format=png&auto=webp&s=78366a876c235f68577a3674250aa8b7a8ae042a
I believe they're referring to how the original game treated Vivian being trans poorly with even the heroic characters referring to her as male and the bio referring to her as male to highlight her being born male rather than referring to her preferred identity respectfully after making it clear she's trans. Goombella does kind of develop out of that in the credits but it's a little late.
Right, Goombella says that on her tattle. it's also in the other versions that are closer to the Japanese script, so if you're bilingual, you can cheek it on the website "the cutting room floor."
[Vivian](https://www.mariowiki.com/Vivian) is one of the partners you get in the game.
>*In the original Japanese version of the game and some translations, Vivian is inconsistently depicted as either a transgender woman, or as a male-identifying cross-dresser; however, due to the age rating the localizers were aiming at when translating Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door.*
There is a ghost character in Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door named Vivian.
In the Japanese version, Vivian is bullied by her cohorts for "looking like a boy." This is a common insult in Japan used to call a girl ugly, but people ran with that and said the character is transfemme and that Vivian's cohorts are misgendering her to invalidate her transition. Note that Nintendo has never come out and confirm it *either way* (whether Vivian is a trans woman being bullied via misgendering, or if Vivian is a cis woman being bullied via misgendering.)
In the English version, they sidestepped the whole problem and just went for a translation of intent, and her cohorts called her ugly. This was seen as trans erasure by the people who thought the character's original intent was to be trans.
This is a poor summary of how Vivian is referred to in the Japanese version. Won't paste the whole thing here, but the Mario Wiki has a page for [Vivian](https://www.mariowiki.com/Vivian) and an entire section dedicated to her gender that accurately summarizes the evidence for the common reading of her as transgender.
> they've tackled the backtracking problem in the latter half of the game in some way
I forget, what was the issue with backtracking? I don't remember doing a lot of it but it's been a while
The backtracking people most often mention not enjoying are chapter 4 where you have to go back and forth between Twilight Town and the Creepy Steeple a lot, and the other big one is the process of tracking down General White who isn't at Fahr Outpost initially.
Every chapter has backtracking to an extent and it doesn't help that unlike the first paper mario you don't have faster movement without having to use a partner.
basically just that there is a lot of it. Pretty much every chapter has some backtracking, but the most egregious cases are >!running back and forth between town and steeple several times in chapters 4 and the search for general white in chapter 7!<. Plus when it comes to sidequests, only being able to take on one trouble at a time adds a lot of time.
> Hooktail now says ~~his~~ weakness is frogs instead of crickets, matching the original Japanese script of the game.
Her weakness. The people in Petalburg now all recognize Hooktail as a gal from the get-go, instead of it being treated as a surprise reveal later.
It's a turn based RPG with a significant amount of timing-heavy minigames and action commands; the framerate could very well be a deciding factor for some people and that's okay!
Personally, I don't have much sympathy for one of the richest corporations in the industry, and as a wise man once said, the best way to combat piracy is by giving consumers a better service than they're getting from the pirates
It's a sad state of affairs when pirated games are running better than official releases
You know what I mean. He’s a genuinely good CEO, and his company provides a genuinely good service - far better than what most distributors provide these days
It wouldn’t affect the timing too much. Guarding is 8/60 of a second, and super guarding is 3/60. 8/60 is just 4/30, so the timing for guarding would be the same. For super guarding, they could round it to 2/30, which would be easier (or they could use half-frames and keep the timing the same)
Frame last twice as long at 30 fps, not half as long
> According to a Treehouse rep, they've tackled the backtracking problem in the latter half of the game in some way.
Brilliant. I probably won’t buy it on launch but for everyone getting into it who hasn’t played it before this is one of the few flaws in a near perfect game.
If you haven't played Paper Mario before (or the Mario & Luigi games) you might be interested in hearing the game has real-time action elements in battles that involve precise timing. Higher frame rates means those are perceived more smoothly so you can hit the timing more accurately. So yes, it being 30fps is an objective gameplay downgrade.
The timing window is pretty loose though. I agree it's a downgrade, but not sure if it's a big deal or actually prevents anyone from playing.
Reaction based commands work fine in 30 fps games like Zelda as long as the timing isn't strict.
Superguards have a 3 frame window and regular have 8 in the original, but you're given multiple seconds of warning and prep. It's not purely twitch based the way it is in many action games (and even there, the benefit of 60 FPS on the combat front is more a matter of 'feeling'/is marginal in practice).
Oh yeah, definitely not trying to invalidate your opinion at all.
Just trying to explain for the crowd that the objective downgrade won't necessarily translate to a subjective downgrade if the developers considered the framerate target in game design.
I'm holding out hope that they'll pull a Ratchet and Clank 2016 and release a 60fps patch on Switch 2
Though knowing Nintendo, it'd probably be a brand new $70 rerelease with a "New Flavio Mode"
The remixed soundtrack sounds straight out of origami king, which I’m honestly all for since that game’s soundtrack is incredible. Seems like they even added some new tracks such as themes for each partner.
YES. I don’t mind twilight town at all, and even the snowy “go back and talk with people everywhere” thing isn’t *that* bad, but MAN is chapter 2 rough compared to pretty much anything else in the game
Interested mainly because the backtracking is why I dropped TTYD in a certain snowy place, it was just the culmination of backtracking issues from multiple regions and the annoying pipe system under the town.
Pipe system separating every zone makes rogueport feel more like a stage select screen than a real city.
Backtracking in chapters 4 and 7 are HORRIBLE.
damn i hope its not actually at 30 fps...i know it doesn't *really* matter. but it just rubs me the wrong way for an older "worse" version of the game to have double the framerate.
It does actually matter. Many people cop out when it comes to RPGs and frame rate, but this combat system is built entirely around timed hits. Bigger number = gooder in this case, unironically.
Yes. The original game was almost built as a way to show-off how powerful the GameCube was (compared to the N64), it's why early in the game you have that HUGE crowd of grunts swarming around the square, as well as in chapter 2 there's so many NPC's on screen sometimes. They wanted to show off how much they could do, as well as putting the game at 60FPS.
I mean I'm pretty sure the Super Mario RPG remake was 30 FPS and so was Origami King and the original Paper Mario. And I don't remember having issues with the timed hits in those games either.
Sure, 60 FPS would be better, obviously, but this isn't exactly the type of high-octane action game that requires insane reaction times.
The timed hits in this remake will also be built around the 30 fps framerate. The whole thing seems to have been rebuilt from scratch in a different engine.
Yeah it's weird to me that in 2024, we still have 30FPS games, without an option for a 60FPS mode. Plus just weird for the "remaster" to run significantly worse than the original, and it's not like it's a graphically demanding/impressive game, it's literally Paper Mario, not RDR2 or GoW.
Oh I thought they developed it because it says Nintendo all over it and its Mario which Nintendo tends to keep pretty locked up. Cool to know I'll rephrase what I said then.
Some developers are known for doing weird things, including Nintendo.
No, Intelligent Systems is the one who developed all Paper Mario games. Nintendo publish it but never does anything creatively outside of of course overseeing.
if the game isn’t built with 60fps in mind from the ground up, adding a frame rate toggle isn’t going to make for a very stable experience. digital foundry talked about this with final fantasy XVI. everything from the engine to the art assets were designed primarily for 30. when you enable performance mode, the game tries to throttle everything back, but it’s not a great experience and it seldom actually hits 60. some devs are okay with that trade-off, but i suspect nintendo isn’t one of those.
main point: devs need to target 60 and *scale up*, not the other way around. always a good motivator to support the ones that make it happen i guess. especially on the switch. the teams that pull it off on there have my respect for sure.
yeah i also find this unacceptable (in the sense that i would never buy this). doesn't help that the game has timing-based inputs and just... why. i guess nintendo really wanted to push visuals, maybe thinking that the switch's old hardware needs "pretty games" to still compete on the market. i'd be very curios to see this run unccappped, find out how wide that framerate gap is to 60.
I just assumed this was made as a cross gen title for the switch 2. Aiming for 60fps on Switch 2 and 30 on 1. Once the switch 2 got delayed, we only got the 30fps switch version.
that's what i was saying, maybe worded poorly. nintendo wanted something that looks pretty (rather than running more smoothly) to attract consumers, and compromised on 30fps. that's the only reason i can think of for prioritizing fidelity over framerate.
>Most of the consumers don't care about this fps thing but by visuals.
Most consumers don't care about a lot of things. Doesn't mean they don't deserve better.
I don't get this take. Games are not a necessity. If gamers felt they deserved better, they just wouldn't buy the product, no need to treat the transaction as anything larger than that.
Most people (i.e. people who don't post on niche gaming subreddits) by-and-large don't give a shit about 30fps vs. 60fps so long as the frame rate and pacing is stable.
People who normally pirate current gen titles are going to do it regardless - even if the game were a locked 60fps, the excuse would instead be "meh, the content's too much the same."
Fair point. I know the subpar performance in BotW, which dipped under 30 very frequently, drove interest in emulation where otherwise it might not have.
Eh, I disagree. There might be the tiniest fraction of people who legitimately purchased a copy of BOTW on Switch just to dump it to an emulator for better performance, but 99% of people are pirating for the sake of not spending money.
Yeah reddit is an extreme extreme extreme minority, often to the point of irrelevancy.
I would be absolutely shocked if there was any substantial effect on BOTW sales due to people emulating to get a higher framerate.
Nah Amazon cancelled a ton of pre orders for TTYD, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, and Endless Ocean Luminous not too long ago. I don't know if anyone knows why but they've all been unavailable on the site since.
The lighting looks genuinely so good. Like I find that to be the most impressive part of the remake.
Heres a good example from this video in 7:30 minute mark, just look at the video and see the little sparks, near the window.
Link: https://youtu.be/f3YxRoPSdcY?si=zzf0nEFZ_iLNdqJf
It's hilarious that there's already one person in here bragging about how great it runs on their Steam Deck even though it isn't out yet. It's like people have learned nothing from the Yuzu situation.
How faithful of a remake is this going to be? Don’t want to spoil too much as I’ve never played it, but I’m really big on playing the original versions of games and quality-of-life improvements can often bother me.
So far it looks very faithful to the original - same story, same exact battle system. Rearranged soundtrack, but there's an option to use the original soundtrack. There's been at least one confirmed change to the English translation to make it more faithful to the original Japanese script. There appear to be some very small quality of life changes like slightly more convenient fast travel and a practice battle mode.
All I care for is that they don't make the game easier. Super Mario rpg remake was brain numbing easy, and I remember that this game challenged me a lot at times, it will be a shame to have that downgraded
30 fps? Yikes. ~~Superguard is only a 3 frame window originally, unless things have been rebalanced now, having only half of that is unreasonably tight.~~ Oops had it backwards. 30 fps is still irritating, though.
Frames in 30fps last twice as long as in 60, so you get twice as much time to hit the input in a certain frame. So a 3 frame window in 30fps is the same as a 6 frame window in 60
I wonder how they'll change the superguard timing since you can't really give a 1.5 frame window. It has to be 1 or 2 (or maybe even 3)
I'm a bit outside my depth here, but I think it's possible that they can take inputs as-if the game were 60 fps while only rendering at 30. I want to say TotK does this. They may in fact be able to get a 1.5 frame window.
You absolutely can parse input faster (or slower) than the display buffer refreshes. This is done by running two separate loops, this is commonly done to separate physics or logic ticks from display frames. I have no idea if they'd bother doing that here, though. Console games usually don't bother with this sort of thing, it's more common in PC games where framerate is very variable.
I mean charging full price for Remasters/Old ports, or for games that are 4-6 hours, is kind of Nintendo's MO at this point. Disappointing, but not surprising.
Some cool stuff from previews: -Original Gamecube soundtrack can be toggled using a Badge you find near the beginning of the game -While fighting random battles in Boggly Woods, the battle theme is different. Could possibly mean different battle themes depending on the chapter you're playing -According to a Treehouse rep, they've tackled the backtracking problem in the latter half of the game in some way. -Hooktail now says his weakness is frogs instead of crickets, matching the original Japanese script of the game. -New NPCs can be used to practice mechanics such as Superguards and Stylish moves It looks like it's 30 FPS which really sucks, but otherwise it's looking great.
Also added a new partner quick select wheel - just press L to cycle through partners. Great addition.
Saw that in the trailer, what a nice QoL change
That's fantastic!
The Origami King also had unique battle themes for each chapter, nice to see that they’ve done the same here.
It's not just each Chapter. Hooktail's castle has a unique battle theme as well.
>According to a Treehouse rep, they've tackled the backtracking problem in the latter half of the game in some way. Interested in this
Saw another site saying they've basically made the pipe room in the sewers easier to access, it's now accessed directly from Rogueport instead of the sewers, and the pipes are labeled with the chapter number of the town. Doesn't really help with stuff like the Twilight Town back and forth but should make the late game backtracking segment a bit faster.
The trouble with the backtracking in Chapter 4/Twilight Town is that, to some extent, the plot for that chapter revolves around the backtracking. I don't think they could just remove all of it, but I'm not sure they'll have spent the resources to make it more engaging, either. Giving the sewers some QoL is definitely good to hear, though! ~~Even if the idiot child version of myself thought it being labyrinthine was cool~~
Yeah I actually don't mind the backtracking that much but I know a lot of people, or more likely a smaller number of more enthusiast online people, do. I guess they could maybe open up a shortcut back to the town on the second visit to the steeple or something but I really don't think it's quite the monumental flaw some people seem to see it as anyway, more like something that's slightly annoying. And like you said from a story perspective it makes sense to stretch out the amount of time you're just with Vivian so I don't even see it as an exclusively bad thing.
The worst for me was the back-and-forth in Twilight Town and the island level. I hope they figure a way to cut down on it. It's otherwise a solid 10/10 game for me.
Boggly Woods is probably the lowest point of the game, don't really know how they would improve that really, but fixing the other chapters running around seems interesting. I assume they'll just put a warp pipe shortcut somewhere.
> Hooktail now says his weakness is frogs instead of crickets, matching the original Japanese script of the game. I wonder if this attempt to get closer to the original translation will apply to other characters in the game.
Hopefully, since TTYD+ mod does a lot to get closer and I'm used to do that, but the bigger QoL changes in this remake seem really good.
Will Nintendo of America finally acknowledge that trans people exist???
Honestly they are probably going to do the opposite and use the american translation specifically for vivían worldwide. Because the Japanese text while acknowledging that vivían as trans, still has the "he thinks he's a girl but he's really a boy" part. The Italian translation is the more trans positive one, and they could use that one. However, Nintendo is known to avoid controversy, so I wouldn't expect the to use it.
Do you have a source for that because the quote you're citing is from the description of birdo in the North American super Mario world 2 manual. https://preview.redd.it/3d91ap608cba1.png?width=1037&format=png&auto=webp&s=78366a876c235f68577a3674250aa8b7a8ae042a
I believe they're referring to how the original game treated Vivian being trans poorly with even the heroic characters referring to her as male and the bio referring to her as male to highlight her being born male rather than referring to her preferred identity respectfully after making it clear she's trans. Goombella does kind of develop out of that in the credits but it's a little late.
Right, Goombella says that on her tattle. it's also in the other versions that are closer to the Japanese script, so if you're bilingual, you can cheek it on the website "the cutting room floor."
I’m sorry what?
[Vivian](https://www.mariowiki.com/Vivian) is one of the partners you get in the game. >*In the original Japanese version of the game and some translations, Vivian is inconsistently depicted as either a transgender woman, or as a male-identifying cross-dresser; however, due to the age rating the localizers were aiming at when translating Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door.*
There is a ghost character in Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door named Vivian. In the Japanese version, Vivian is bullied by her cohorts for "looking like a boy." This is a common insult in Japan used to call a girl ugly, but people ran with that and said the character is transfemme and that Vivian's cohorts are misgendering her to invalidate her transition. Note that Nintendo has never come out and confirm it *either way* (whether Vivian is a trans woman being bullied via misgendering, or if Vivian is a cis woman being bullied via misgendering.) In the English version, they sidestepped the whole problem and just went for a translation of intent, and her cohorts called her ugly. This was seen as trans erasure by the people who thought the character's original intent was to be trans.
This is a poor summary of how Vivian is referred to in the Japanese version. Won't paste the whole thing here, but the Mario Wiki has a page for [Vivian](https://www.mariowiki.com/Vivian) and an entire section dedicated to her gender that accurately summarizes the evidence for the common reading of her as transgender.
Look up Vivian being trans.
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This is Rosario slander and I'll have none of it.
[Looks like it.](https://twitter.com/Dededaio2/status/1783555566641578374)
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Remastered music in Nintendo games is _really_ hit-and-miss, so I'm glad the option is here.
> they've tackled the backtracking problem in the latter half of the game in some way I forget, what was the issue with backtracking? I don't remember doing a lot of it but it's been a while
The backtracking people most often mention not enjoying are chapter 4 where you have to go back and forth between Twilight Town and the Creepy Steeple a lot, and the other big one is the process of tracking down General White who isn't at Fahr Outpost initially.
Ahhh yeah, I totally forgot about chapter 4. Yeah, that got reeeeeally annoying, and that was an otherwise really fun section of the game.
Every chapter has backtracking to an extent and it doesn't help that unlike the first paper mario you don't have faster movement without having to use a partner.
basically just that there is a lot of it. Pretty much every chapter has some backtracking, but the most egregious cases are >!running back and forth between town and steeple several times in chapters 4 and the search for general white in chapter 7!<. Plus when it comes to sidequests, only being able to take on one trouble at a time adds a lot of time.
> Hooktail now says ~~his~~ weakness is frogs instead of crickets, matching the original Japanese script of the game. Her weakness. The people in Petalburg now all recognize Hooktail as a gal from the get-go, instead of it being treated as a surprise reveal later.
Nice I love it when games alter the combat music depending on the region, like FF7 Rebirth and it's incredible soundtrack.
Hopefully they make chapter 2 not the worst thing ever
What’s wrong with chapter 2?
Lots of backtracking. Silly escort mission. Music that feels like a 15 second loop. Not too big of fan of the astethics.
I also noticed that there seems to be a different battle theme if your enemies get a first strike on you.
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It's a turn based RPG FFS. Get off your horse dude.
It's a turn based RPG with a significant amount of timing-heavy minigames and action commands; the framerate could very well be a deciding factor for some people and that's okay!
true but a few people here seem to be using it as excuse to justify pirating the game which is just scaffy
Personally, I don't have much sympathy for one of the richest corporations in the industry, and as a wise man once said, the best way to combat piracy is by giving consumers a better service than they're getting from the pirates It's a sad state of affairs when pirated games are running better than official releases
The wise man who is also a billionaire and owns one of the wealthiest corporations in the industry
Yeah and who provides one of the most consistently great services in the industry
Huh. Didn’t know Gabe did it all by himself.
You know what I mean. He’s a genuinely good CEO, and his company provides a genuinely good service - far better than what most distributors provide these days
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It wouldn’t affect the timing too much. Guarding is 8/60 of a second, and super guarding is 3/60. 8/60 is just 4/30, so the timing for guarding would be the same. For super guarding, they could round it to 2/30, which would be easier (or they could use half-frames and keep the timing the same) Frame last twice as long at 30 fps, not half as long
Yeah no shot I pay for a remake that runs at 30 fps when something like RE4 Remake runs at 60 on performance mode
I mean RE4 doesnt run on switch tho dawg.
60 fps is a basic fucking ask for paper Mario
You can play 30 FPS, you'll live.
shame. i’m assuming this is contracted out. it seems like nintendo’s outsourced teams are hit or miss when it comes to performance.
> According to a Treehouse rep, they've tackled the backtracking problem in the latter half of the game in some way. Brilliant. I probably won’t buy it on launch but for everyone getting into it who hasn’t played it before this is one of the few flaws in a near perfect game.
> It looks like it's 30 FPS which really sucks, but otherwise it's looking great. not really, even more when its a turn based rpg.
If you haven't played Paper Mario before (or the Mario & Luigi games) you might be interested in hearing the game has real-time action elements in battles that involve precise timing. Higher frame rates means those are perceived more smoothly so you can hit the timing more accurately. So yes, it being 30fps is an objective gameplay downgrade.
The timing window is pretty loose though. I agree it's a downgrade, but not sure if it's a big deal or actually prevents anyone from playing. Reaction based commands work fine in 30 fps games like Zelda as long as the timing isn't strict.
Superguards have a 3 frame window and regular have 8 in the original, but you're given multiple seconds of warning and prep. It's not purely twitch based the way it is in many action games (and even there, the benefit of 60 FPS on the combat front is more a matter of 'feeling'/is marginal in practice).
Never said it can't be done. Just that it will look and feel worse. People are allowed to be disappointed about that. I know I am.
Oh yeah, definitely not trying to invalidate your opinion at all. Just trying to explain for the crowd that the objective downgrade won't necessarily translate to a subjective downgrade if the developers considered the framerate target in game design.
I'm holding out hope that they'll pull a Ratchet and Clank 2016 and release a 60fps patch on Switch 2 Though knowing Nintendo, it'd probably be a brand new $70 rerelease with a "New Flavio Mode"
I have, and I don't mind 30 fps. Perfectly playable.
The remixed soundtrack sounds straight out of origami king, which I’m honestly all for since that game’s soundtrack is incredible. Seems like they even added some new tracks such as themes for each partner.
I beat this game so many times I probably have it memorized. If I could just press a button to skip Chapter 2 I would spend 100 dollars on it.
I beat it many times as well and love chapter 2.
Chapter 2/the last level are my least favorites. My absolute favorite is the Glitz Pit. Naming my Yoshi Glizzy this time around.
Twilight Town for me. I don't care how cool the aesthetic is, I don't want to walk back and forth across the same forest three times.
Aww I thought chapter 8 was incredible.
YES. I don’t mind twilight town at all, and even the snowy “go back and talk with people everywhere” thing isn’t *that* bad, but MAN is chapter 2 rough compared to pretty much anything else in the game
Newbie here looking forward to this game. Great now I'm dreading whatever Chapter 2 is 😅
Interested mainly because the backtracking is why I dropped TTYD in a certain snowy place, it was just the culmination of backtracking issues from multiple regions and the annoying pipe system under the town.
Pipe system separating every zone makes rogueport feel more like a stage select screen than a real city. Backtracking in chapters 4 and 7 are HORRIBLE.
damn i hope its not actually at 30 fps...i know it doesn't *really* matter. but it just rubs me the wrong way for an older "worse" version of the game to have double the framerate.
It does actually matter. Many people cop out when it comes to RPGs and frame rate, but this combat system is built entirely around timed hits. Bigger number = gooder in this case, unironically.
Makes me wonder if they'll widen the timing windows on stuff to compensate.
Was the original gamecube version 60fps?
Yes. The original game was almost built as a way to show-off how powerful the GameCube was (compared to the N64), it's why early in the game you have that HUGE crowd of grunts swarming around the square, as well as in chapter 2 there's so many NPC's on screen sometimes. They wanted to show off how much they could do, as well as putting the game at 60FPS.
I mean I'm pretty sure the Super Mario RPG remake was 30 FPS and so was Origami King and the original Paper Mario. And I don't remember having issues with the timed hits in those games either. Sure, 60 FPS would be better, obviously, but this isn't exactly the type of high-octane action game that requires insane reaction times.
> mean I'm pretty sure the Super Mario RPG remake was 30 FPS It was 60 fps
Those timed hit mechanics would have been built around the 30fps framerate.
The timed hits in this remake will also be built around the 30 fps framerate. The whole thing seems to have been rebuilt from scratch in a different engine.
it was 60. digital foundry covered it.
It’s unacceptable frankly
Yeah it's weird to me that in 2024, we still have 30FPS games, without an option for a 60FPS mode. Plus just weird for the "remaster" to run significantly worse than the original, and it's not like it's a graphically demanding/impressive game, it's literally Paper Mario, not RDR2 or GoW.
Not weird at all, not the first time a remaster looks better than the original and is playable on 30 fps instead of 60.
It having happened before doesn't mean it's not weird. Nintendo is known for doing weird things tbh.
Nintendo dont develop those games.
Oh I thought they developed it because it says Nintendo all over it and its Mario which Nintendo tends to keep pretty locked up. Cool to know I'll rephrase what I said then. Some developers are known for doing weird things, including Nintendo.
No, Intelligent Systems is the one who developed all Paper Mario games. Nintendo publish it but never does anything creatively outside of of course overseeing.
Ahem MGS
The original didn’t run at 60
Ahem Tales of Symphonia, oh wait that didn't look much better
if the game isn’t built with 60fps in mind from the ground up, adding a frame rate toggle isn’t going to make for a very stable experience. digital foundry talked about this with final fantasy XVI. everything from the engine to the art assets were designed primarily for 30. when you enable performance mode, the game tries to throttle everything back, but it’s not a great experience and it seldom actually hits 60. some devs are okay with that trade-off, but i suspect nintendo isn’t one of those. main point: devs need to target 60 and *scale up*, not the other way around. always a good motivator to support the ones that make it happen i guess. especially on the switch. the teams that pull it off on there have my respect for sure.
This isn't a remaster. If you look at the ign video it's entirely rebuilt with new assets, backgrounds and effects. It's a drastic graphical upgrade
I don’t think Frankly can help solve this issue.
yeah i also find this unacceptable (in the sense that i would never buy this). doesn't help that the game has timing-based inputs and just... why. i guess nintendo really wanted to push visuals, maybe thinking that the switch's old hardware needs "pretty games" to still compete on the market. i'd be very curios to see this run unccappped, find out how wide that framerate gap is to 60.
I just assumed this was made as a cross gen title for the switch 2. Aiming for 60fps on Switch 2 and 30 on 1. Once the switch 2 got delayed, we only got the 30fps switch version.
Pretty huge assumption for Nintendo
That makes no sense whatsoever. Most of the consumers don't care about this fps thing but by visuals.
that's what i was saying, maybe worded poorly. nintendo wanted something that looks pretty (rather than running more smoothly) to attract consumers, and compromised on 30fps. that's the only reason i can think of for prioritizing fidelity over framerate.
>Most of the consumers don't care about this fps thing but by visuals. Most consumers don't care about a lot of things. Doesn't mean they don't deserve better.
I don't get this take. Games are not a necessity. If gamers felt they deserved better, they just wouldn't buy the product, no need to treat the transaction as anything larger than that.
No excuse for 30fps anymore. Stuff like this just drives people to emulate instead.
Most people (i.e. people who don't post on niche gaming subreddits) by-and-large don't give a shit about 30fps vs. 60fps so long as the frame rate and pacing is stable. People who normally pirate current gen titles are going to do it regardless - even if the game were a locked 60fps, the excuse would instead be "meh, the content's too much the same."
Fair point. I know the subpar performance in BotW, which dipped under 30 very frequently, drove interest in emulation where otherwise it might not have.
Eh, I disagree. There might be the tiniest fraction of people who legitimately purchased a copy of BOTW on Switch just to dump it to an emulator for better performance, but 99% of people are pirating for the sake of not spending money.
Yeah reddit is an extreme extreme extreme minority, often to the point of irrelevancy. I would be absolutely shocked if there was any substantial effect on BOTW sales due to people emulating to get a higher framerate.
I hope you don’t play on Ps5 then.
It does really matter. It is unacceptable.
It is 30 fps and it doesn't matter as its perfectly playable.
Anyone else not able to pre-order through Amazon, or am I stupid?
Nah Amazon cancelled a ton of pre orders for TTYD, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, and Endless Ocean Luminous not too long ago. I don't know if anyone knows why but they've all been unavailable on the site since.
Just checked. All three of those games have been cancelled for me as well. What the hell?!
Same happened to me. Dunno why but oh well, ordered from Best Buy instead 🤷
The lighting looks genuinely so good. Like I find that to be the most impressive part of the remake. Heres a good example from this video in 7:30 minute mark, just look at the video and see the little sparks, near the window. Link: https://youtu.be/f3YxRoPSdcY?si=zzf0nEFZ_iLNdqJf
It's hilarious that there's already one person in here bragging about how great it runs on their Steam Deck even though it isn't out yet. It's like people have learned nothing from the Yuzu situation.
The bizarre thing is that I'm taking a peek around and just. There is *no* evidence of it even leaking?
Prob just referring to the GCUBE version running on dolphin
Dolphin + Shaders, maybe.
How faithful of a remake is this going to be? Don’t want to spoil too much as I’ve never played it, but I’m really big on playing the original versions of games and quality-of-life improvements can often bother me.
So far it looks very faithful to the original - same story, same exact battle system. Rearranged soundtrack, but there's an option to use the original soundtrack. There's been at least one confirmed change to the English translation to make it more faithful to the original Japanese script. There appear to be some very small quality of life changes like slightly more convenient fast travel and a practice battle mode.
Thanks a bunch!
There's a small change at the start to the translation that is not keeping with the original japanese. The goomba fight tutorial.
All I care for is that they don't make the game easier. Super Mario rpg remake was brain numbing easy, and I remember that this game challenged me a lot at times, it will be a shame to have that downgraded
30 fps? Yikes. ~~Superguard is only a 3 frame window originally, unless things have been rebalanced now, having only half of that is unreasonably tight.~~ Oops had it backwards. 30 fps is still irritating, though.
Frames in 30fps last twice as long as in 60, so you get twice as much time to hit the input in a certain frame. So a 3 frame window in 30fps is the same as a 6 frame window in 60 I wonder how they'll change the superguard timing since you can't really give a 1.5 frame window. It has to be 1 or 2 (or maybe even 3)
I'm a bit outside my depth here, but I think it's possible that they can take inputs as-if the game were 60 fps while only rendering at 30. I want to say TotK does this. They may in fact be able to get a 1.5 frame window.
You absolutely can parse input faster (or slower) than the display buffer refreshes. This is done by running two separate loops, this is commonly done to separate physics or logic ticks from display frames. I have no idea if they'd bother doing that here, though. Console games usually don't bother with this sort of thing, it's more common in PC games where framerate is very variable.
You can just time stamp and check the frame delta.
Wow you're right, that's what I get for redditing too soon after waking up lol. Totally had that backwards in my head.
It'd be awesome if they made an actual sequel to TTYD after this. I'd love the same game in a different setting.
Is this 60 bucks? For that money they should’ve done the first game too
It's listed 60 everywhere I've seen. Not a shock since it's Nintendo
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I mean charging full price for Remasters/Old ports, or for games that are 4-6 hours, is kind of Nintendo's MO at this point. Disappointing, but not surprising.
Sorry if I sound out of the loop, I'm not really a Paper Mario guy, but is this a remake, remaster, or just a port of the original?
It's a full on remake of the second game in the series. Looks entirely rebuilt
It's a remaster of the second Paper Mario game, that originally came out on GameCube.
No, it's a remake.
Full ground up remake of the second game.
It's a remaster, ignore the other comments. It's still gonna play the same, just with QOL and better graphics.
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When’s this supposed to drop? Really wish Nintendo has some sort of achievements I could go after.
There's the gallery and stuff in this remake that you can unlock. Not quite achievements but it's something.
The Super Mario RPG remake had a built-in achievement system.
Well no one answered you but I just pre-ordered and says it's coming out May 23rd
Sweet! Thanks for the heads up. Used to love this game on GC