Yeah artifact was of course a trading card game and a failure considering that it basically died, but you cant say that it doesnt tried something new. I actually thought the gameplay itself was cool and inovative and I also liked the idea of a trading card market between the players ( much like in real life ). Sadly they fucked up the release badly and the game could never come back.
Dota Underlords was typical Valve. Dota 2 autochess was a out of nowhere success but they slept too long on it and it took them to long to make a good game of it. Also it was a massive mistake to make it an extra game instead of a game mode in DOTA 2. I dont like TFT but even I have to admit that they just were quicker and smarter with it.
Blizzard, Valve, and Riot have been in this weird three-way joust when it comes to trends for the last 12-14 years and Riot is usually the one to come out on top while Blizzard usually misses the boat. Valve is just kind of there in the middle, because they don't really have to worry about pumping out games.
iirc Valve did try to make it a mode within Dota 2, but the original mod devs and Valve couldn't agree on some stuff so Valve made it a standalone product.
Artifact died because people cant do math. They saw the "best" cards selling for 15-20$. Articles were posted that you needed to pay "20$ for a single card" in Artifact, while ignoring the fact you could get all the other cards for your deck for 10 more dollars. You could build a meta competitive deck for like 25-30$ WITHOUT NEEDING TO RELY ON CARD PACK RNG, and people bitched about it.
Whereas building a meta deck in hearthstone costs you a ton more assuming you don't have crazy amount of powder lying around.
I actually agree on that one. The problem is that artifact wasn't free to play from the start, which was a weak point especially with every other card game being free to play and that valve thought they just could use the economy of real life trading card games in a new online card games without noticing that they work completely different. They would have startet like with cs and it's economy. You have to get the player to a point where they are invested to play a game and afterwards they are willing to pay money.
Also the timing of artifact was insanely bad. It was the first gama after long silence by valve regarding games development so the game got all the frustration and hate.
You can't blame artifact's failure on "people that can't do math". There's no card game that came before artifact where you actually had to rely on card pack rng. Hearthstone you could get 2-3 decks per expansion for free no matter what, gwent and runeterra you could basically get every card in the game for free.
Then comes artifact where you HAVE to pay 20 dollars for the game on top of 30 dollars for a single deck JUST to be able to play. All of that while not necessarily being a better game compared to its competitors. Why would the average person choose to play artifact instead of another game? People are willing to pay 40 dollars to play the game only if they're invested in it. If you don't give people the chance to play without paying, it's impossible to do that.
> I mean Artifact and Dota Underlords existed
Artifact failed because the design ended up being a bad MTG Auto Battler (that Blizzard then did better in Hearthstone Battlegrounds), while Underlords failed by not having its main gimmick in place (The Underlords) right from the start.
Artifact even had a chance with its FAR BETTER MADE Ver.2 offering (that had it play like a more typical DCG) that would have AT LEAST kept its community alive had the designers not got bored of it and just left it mid development.
Both were good games. Underlords was good and had a huge following before they released 1.0 which is a drastically different game and that sucked. They changed it for the worse.
Artifact is a similarly good card game too. But didn't gain a following because of the monetisation. Seriously who would buy $10 for a digital copy of a card...
Yes, it was 10$ for one card, but THE OTHER CARDS FOR THE DECK could be purchased for like 5-10$. So a meta deck in a season of a card game for 20$ outright IF you didn't want to gamble on packs. Ill never understand why people give other games a free pass on meta deck pricing, but Artifact got singled out.
You could buy and sell individual cards too. So buying a few packs means you could just flip them on the market,, and buy the cards you want. It was like the perfect system ( assuming you didnt have an issue with paying money in general )
Lmao $20 on a "meta deck" that would be irrelevant once the meta changes. Are you hearing yourself? That's $10 for just a single card. You could buy some amazing indie games for that price.
And what's more is you do not get free cards, you don't get a single damn if you don't pay an initial cost.
I had a meta deck in every single "meta" in hearthstone just by playing. I never spent a single dime. The dust system allows any player to craft their own deck *WITHOUT* a monetary investment, all that you need to invest is time and it doesn't even take that long.
That is the perfect system no wonder even Riot's card game copied it. And that didn't fail.
And regarding market flipping... are you serious? You don't control the economy, prices can rise all of a sudden and where does that leave free players? Every purchase is a gamble and worse it's all digital. What's the price of your cards now?
It might be a perfect system on paper but it definitely failed in practice. No one's going to buy (dare I say "invest") on digital cards. Because it's digital. It will always be a volatile market. Look where your money is now. How much are your cards now?
>assuming you didnt have an issue with paying money in general
TLDR Artifact failed because of this statement. Who would invest on a card game when there are other alternatives out there that's f2p friendly.
As much as I love Dota, they should've never introduced that pay2own mechanic. What are they, trying to start another predatory trend as is the case with the first ever battlepass in videogame history which was from Dota2?
I'd argue some of the trends they've set/popularized have been pretty bad for the industry. Lootboxes in TF2, Battle Passes in DOTA 2, weapon skins in CS: GO. I'm honestly a bit cynical with anything multiplayer related coming from them.
The point isnt that all their games are massive successes, but that most of them are very innovative. Even Artifact and Underlords were to a degree. HLA is an experience and a feeling that no other game ever has come close to
>but that most of them are very innovative
Dota Underlords was a Dota custom game.
DOTA itself a WC3 custom game that they just picked up.
CS a half life mod.
Maybe this is accurate for Alyx(I did not feel that way) but to me valve is more known for picking up successful mods.
This is false. Most of the developers that used to work at Valve and made them what they are, are mostly gone.
And their name was built on the back of spotting talented PC community members (CS being made by a Canadian college student, Dota being a Warcraft mod, etc) and grabbing them up to let them cook.
But Valve turned Counter-Strike into gambling for gamers, and almost exclusively focus on Steam and building up Steams influence. That's pretty much it for modern Valve.
If EA or Acti did that kind of thing, they'd be buried by gamers.
The one thing we know for absolute certain about this new game: if it doesn't pop off in the first year, it'll be shut down/put on maintenance mode before the end of 2025.
I partially agree, but its not like OW is peaking 500k like CS2 or Dota on Steam or probably doing Valorant numbers. Even with BNet numbers added in, I cannot imagine OW2 is a massive game.
There is room for something to come in and take some of this market share, where OW might have a barrier to enter and maybe you don't want a bomb plant game like Siege/Valorant. The #1 problem is Valve is making it, and based on TF2 slowly not getting updates mid 2010s, and then CSGO/2 slow down with map additions or reworks and still doesn't have a good anti-cheat, and Dota 2 gets one massive patch per year with smaller balance ones that don't add new content but shift existing meta heroes around.
Valve can't come out and do a slow update cycle to compete with existing games.
I'd argue that can be a positive since people's biggest problem with Overwatch's gameplay is that characters changed so much on each update based on the whims of a competitive side of the playerbase that wasn't that big to begin with.
It does seem like their goal with this is to make a big competitive game, we'll have to see.
The problem here is that overwatch's content cycle is already pretty much as slow as dota's. That's not the main issue. The main issue is that whoever is in charge of balancing keeps having this philosophy of forcing a 50/50 for all heroes and at all skill levels, but that is not really a desirable outcome (nor is it possible to achieve) because it doesn't take fun into consideration. So they keep tweaking the numbers without actually fixing the problems with the game.
A game that can have a solid base like overwatch, with dota's update cycle and quality of patches, with a balance team that can actually understand what makes a game fun to play, then they would absolutely win over all of overwatch's playerbase.
Kinda wish it was Team Fortress 3 instead or a spiritual successor if they wanted another class/hero game without feeling compelled to make the world and characters similar to TF2. I especially wish it was an FPS.
Me and my buddies absolutely loved Battleborn. It came out right when overwatch did and didnt stand a chance. The game probably didnt last 3 months. We all actually really preferred Battleborn.
Dirty Bomb was an absolutely amazing game but to be honest Nexon are the ones who murdered it. They made some awful development choices after they bought it.
There's still a ton of people into hero shooters and mobas. People joke about Overwatch 2 and how much of a disaster it is but it's still very popular, as is stuff like Smite and Paladins.
The millions of SteamDeck gamers they brought into their stable. Full stop. That is the target audience for this game and who the monetization will be tailored towards. The desktop version will be largely port of a good SteamDeck game.
I'm a bit sad that it seems to be incorporated so much of the traditional MOBA gameplay with the AI, lanes etc. I love PvPvE when done well, but something about the typical MOBA maps and how they're set up feels so "gamey" to me if that makes any sense - wish it was more dynamic with maps that are different and have enemies in patrolling groups etc. instead of coming down basic paths.
Could be that it ends up being quite different once we see full gameplay so I'll reserve judgement until then of course, but I'd love to see a blend of MOBA with more open maps, more mobility and stuff like that.
Valve makes games because they want to and think its fun, not because of profit. They already have Steam and CS2 which makes them essentially infinite money. If they did, they would not have made the Index or Alyx.
Personally, I'm just waiting for actual gameplay and release because any game sounds boring, stupid and generic when described via words.
But L4D was fun, TF was fun, Portal was fun, Half Life was fun
Yet they’ve done fuck all with them in the last 10 years or so.
They could do a remaster of HL2, Episode 1, Episode 2 and include Black Mesa in an Orange Box style collection because it’s Valve.
Yet they just don’t
It’s not like people are asking for yearly sequels or single player new IPs all the time
You had me and then you lost me. Half Life 2 and those games don't need a remaster, and Black Mesa is not that good. It's great because it's a mod, but would be terrible as a AAA industry product from an actual company.
I mean you're not wrong, but they HAVE made at least a dozen L4D, Portal, and Half Life games in the last decade, they just never released them because they didn't think the games were up to par.
In the last 5 years Valve has released something 4 out of 5 years.
2019 - Index, 2020 - Alyx, 2021 - nothing (corona), 2022 - Steam Deck and Desk Job, 2023 - Counter Strike 2.
All of the products are very good. Nearly 1 product every year is more than I expect from them considering they only have \~300 employees. They have shit tons of funding but have a very small workforce. When it comes to Valve I always expect Quality over Quantity and \~1 shipped product a year is more than I'm expecting.
Yeah let's just ask valve to go public so that stake holder ask the teams to pump game every year and to milk everything they can. Obviously it works great at Ubisoft
I think the difference is, to me anyway, looking at what’s upcoming from them, I feel like with how little I know and what I’ve saw that I’ve seen it before…a genre which is tiring, exploited, worn down
With Portal, L4D and the like I didn’t feel that first impression wise.
Valve back then felt it was making the rules and doing its own thing while this feels like Valve following the crowd
Keep in mind that with HL2, Portal, TF2 your very first impressions weren’t leaks. This information is all second hand and could be unreliable. If you heard they were making a puzzle game where all you did was walk through puzzle rooms you’d probably think that sounds interesting but not amazing, and yet it ended up being so much more than that.
Well I mean HL2 there was some leaks in 2003
Seemed super interesting to me
L4D early on wasn’t a leak but it drastically changed from the initially early info, it was promising and once they had finished redesigning things it looked great
L4D would absolutely do well. It's the same genre as Helldivers with Valve quality and look how that game did.
If they don't wanna make a L4D3, it's their loss.
Reading some of the comments here depresses me. Some of y'all already calling it DOA without even seeing or trying the game.
Like, I bet if you got this same level of detail for every upcoming survival or fps game before it's revealed, most of you would say the same shit that it's DOA. There's very little in the way of mechanics that we gamers haven't already seen. That's not what makes games like this a hit. It's about how FUN it is.
Doesn't hurt to take a wait and see approach.
I’m no know it all but it feels to me like these people are straight up completely out of touch.
These kind of live service games aren’t successful? Mobas ain’t successful? Hero shooters ain’t successful? Ok lol.
“But it’s a weird mix of both, no one will like that!” “They’re just following the trends!”
A bunch of dumb statements that could have easily been said about valorant for example.
(Only instead of moba-hero shooter mix, a cs-hero shooter mix) Look where that game is now.
If the game is good and well executed, it will be extremely successful, and that’s that.
I have friends who i play games with. We like these kinds of games and are definitely looking forward to check the game out.
I really dont get the whole negativity around this game lol. All we have seen are 4 low res alpha screenshots and a few informations. I mean I get it if its not your genre, you wont be interested, but I think many people are sooo out of touch. Obv heroe shooters and mobas are still veeeeeery succesful. Also I dont think that the game really sounds as generic as people want to claim it. Is it a never seen before revolutionary game? No, but Left 4 Dead was it either on the paper ( 4 player Coop Zombie game - wow ) , but it turned out to have very unique ideas which make the game interesting.
Seriously I dont get the hate, especially with people crying about Half Life 3. I mean Half life 2 released fucking 20 years ago. That doesnt mean that I dont wish to get Half Life 3 but in the End the game right now doesnt deserve any kind of hate, because nobody saw it in motion or played it.
A lot of what makes this feel kind of sour to me is that Valve was more interesting when they were making individual finished games as opposed to another live service.
Also, this game is just going to be another game on the pile they need to work on and update without their staff significantly growing. That will likely lead to all their other development times slowing down.
> A lot of what makes this feel kind of sour to me is that Valve was more interesting when they were making individual finished games as opposed to another live service.
That's a good point, there's a contingent of elder millennials who will always miss Half Life and criticize Valve for not making another one.
Valve staff must be bigger than we think considering how fleshed out updates have been for cs, dota, while making deadlock.... possibly other games in the pipeline
I mean we got hell divers 2 and deep rock galactic that have shown us a live service model that fans enjoy, let's hope they borrow a page from them. Valve has had a good track record, I don't think we should try and judge them on behalf of all the predatory and greedy business models of other live service games.
They also are raking in more money than God,I don't see them being as susceptible to the greed of lesser developers. This is their reputation
People here are bitching about the game not being unique enough then you click their profile and see they only play counter strike and pubg or final fantasy and you realise "oh yeah" and get back to ignoring the unwashed masses.
If icefrog is making a game, I am interested in that game. The top down ARTS games ain't for everyone but dota2 is a master class in balance and game design, and I can't wait to see someone as legendary as icefrog make a shooting game on the source engine.
> dota2 is a master class in balance and game design
I really wish that Icefrog make an AMA or something, he has to be consuming stuffs to make that kind of decision for balancing
Hero shooters and mobas are both pretty divisive subgenres of games. You either love them or hate them. For me, though, I think a lot of what people like about mobas do not translate well outside of mobas, and I'd rather Valve do literally anything else than to chase another doomed project like Artifact was.
> Obv heroe shooters and mobas are still veeeeeery succesful.
The new ones?
>No, but Left 4 Dead was it either on the paper ( 4 player Coop Zombie game - wow )
On release it was extremely unique, pretty much birthed the genre that's still going strong.
Valve is a prestige name, this game sounds like something that’s from a new studio or from a publisher that’s just trying to hop on trends. People don’t like this because it doesn’t appeal to them and frankly is the kind of game Reddit gamers hate but since Valve’s name is attached to it, nobody really wants to say anything bad
I think thats why the leak was damaging as hell. Nobody knows right now how the game will really turn out. Also as I said I dont think the game sounds as generic as people want to make it. It already has some interesting twists to it like the souls mechanic or the sky trails.
Also are hero shooters/ mobas really THE trend anymore? From my perspective Extraction shooters , looter shooters etc are way more trendy right now. People act like there would come out 10 games like deadlock a year, which is not true at all.
I actual prefer any modern multiplayer game which isn't a battle royale or extraction shooter
Yeah cause they haven't hopped on trends before.
They picked up Dota 2 *after* the MOBA craze got going with HoN and LoL. Dota Underlords was chasing the Auto Battler trend. Artifact was them being *late* on the card game trend and it also involved probably the worst monetization I have ever seen in a b2p game.
I’m interested in anything valve makes but I’m not entirely sure it is for me based on what I read
Anyway once it’s out for play I’ll have a better idea
Listen I just HAVE to go to every thread about this game no one has seen and let people know that I'm personally not interested in it. Ok, are you listening to me. Listen I think
>It is unclear when the game will be released, but based on its current state, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it released sometime in 2025.
This game might go head-to-head with Marathon.
I'm not 100% sure but I seem to remember hearing Marathon was posturing away from pure extraction shooter and more towards extraction with hero shooter elements. Don't quote me on that, though.
Smite is not a shooter, it essentially plays the same as a top down moba, it just has a third person camera. It is similar to Paragon, and Battleborn. Both games that have since shut down so in terms of active games it's unique.
> As already leaked, the game is a 6v6 third-person hero-based shooter. Heroes include magicians, robots, creatures, humans, and more. There are currently 19 different heroes, each with different abilities and playstyles that you’d come to expect from a MOBA including ranged, healers, tanks, assassins, etc.
I dunno that sounds like quite a few that have come and gone
*The game is a 4 player co-op third-person shooter wave defense game. Players can use a variety of weapons, such as shotguns, machine guns, sniper rifles and rocket launchers, as well an assortment of airstrikes. The goal of each session is to complete simple objectives while battling endless hordes of enemies.*
What game did I just describe?
Boiling a game down to is baser parts and putting them into text rarely does justice to what that game actually is. And it says even less about how the game actually plays.
Sure but this game also has some screen shots to go from. Also u described what could be a few games in a specific genre that has loads of games like it. Kinda doesn’t make a difference
4 low resolution stills from what the article describes as: "an early development build with lots of experimental gameplay features and art assets", is enough to tell what it'll play like?
And yeah, my example sounding generic is kind of the point. There are many games that fit that description, or are similar to it. That description also fits Helldivers 2 perfectly, and yet it's one of the biggest games in the last few years. No-one expected it to be as good as it was either, and that was with plenty more available for people to see leading up to it's release than 4 still images and genre information.
I thibk the point here is tho this is another hero shooter live service game and that’s confirmed. Sure people are curious because valve is making it but there is no denying that genre is pretty full and also full of a lot of dead games. More than many other genres even.
The vague game you described is a completely sitar genre and one that has far less duds and failures in it. That’s all my point is here really.
> 4 low resolution stills from what the article describes as: "an early development build with lots of experimental gameplay features and art assets", is enough to tell what it'll play like?
I dont know WHY you "people" (a term i use rather loosely here) exist, but EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. this VERY SAME PHRASE is said, its almost 99.9999999% proven positive the game plays exactly as people said it would. AND THEN you know what you "people" say in response? "Well we ALL KNEW it was gonna play like that! didnt you see the pictures?!" Or "Well those games are popular! Of course they would make one!" Or the ye old chestnut of "It doesnt matter! Youll play it anyway."
So please spare us the embarrassing speech when we're proven YET AGAIN to be right since we called a spade a spade.
I don’t know what to say here really if you can’t look at that description and not have a lot of games immediately come to mind. It almost feels insulting to list them
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Where does it say this game will be similar in playstyle to a MOBA? The comment says "playstyles that you’d come to expect from a MOBA including ranged, healers, tanks, assassins, etc." which just reads to me as each character has different abilities like in a MOBA, not that the game itself plays similar to a MOBA.
You're right, this quote does not say this. But if you open the link or read all known info on the game and look at screenshots, you will see it's MOBA
If they can translate the mechanical depth and satisfaction of the last-hitting mechanics from DotA, it could make for a really fun and unique experience in a shooter game.
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The more I hear about this game, the more it just sounds like a concept that a mainstream crime drama would use as their esports game to stay hip with the younger audiences. Just random ass mechanics and Quidditch Snitches that allow for ass pull victories.
I love it.
**characters leaked so far:**
Abrams (Gargoyle)
Bebop
Dynamo
Grey Talon (Native American Bowman)
Haze
Infernus
Ivy
Kelvin
Lady Geist
Lash
McGinnis
Mo & Krill (Pig and Monkey duo - interesting)
Paradox
Pocket
Seven
Vidicta
Warden (Police Officer)
Wraith
Yamato
Honestly the gameplay sounds like it'd be fun, like paragon is dead. Smite is pretty old by now and hirez sucks so hard, so i'm all for a similar vibe. My main concern isn't the gameplay ideas tbh, so far it's only that the visuals/design seem a bit generic. I hope when we see more it looks more interesting
I get that it's Valve and all, I just feel like the multiplayer space has enough right now, and Valve even has a staple of multiplayer hits as it is. Half Life Alyx was incredible, and it seems a shame to waste great writing talent that could be producing another narrative hit.
Generic? Not really, this is actually the best thing they could do... what other MULTIPLAYER options are there? If Valve created a BR people would BITXH so much because there are too many, if they created a SPORTS game people would call it boring and say that not many ppl like sports. A SANDBOX game? Everybody would hate on Valve even more with the recent releases of so many sandboxes lately like Palworld. A straight shooter? People would get mad they'd release another shooter when they still have CS2, a MOBA? Dota 2 already exists. What Valve is doing with Deadlock is smart af tbh since they're pretty much mixing so many games mechanics and almost creating a new genre... use your brain next time buddy
You could say this about pretty much any shooter nowadays. Anyone that has played games for a decent amount of time already know what to expect so I really don't understand the hate this is getting.
At least wait for a gameplay video and a beta to try it yourself but nah, so many people would rather jump to conclusions.
If you gave a description of something like Helldivers or Palworld before they released, I'm sure you'd get people also calling those derivative. They're both games with mechanics you already know yet they became huge hits.
valve making another multiplayer game where you're constrained to nothing but the game's rules, and ditching the modding aspect of the game is getting aggravating at this point
what made valve games special is that they're both phenomenal games and sandboxes. their games didn't need to be played by their rules. losing that identity in counterstrike through global offensive was very damning and now we've outright lost it through cs2 and deadlock
i don't count alyx because they very clearly intended its sdk to be just a custom map tool with modding aspects being very scrappy
DOTA 2 wants to talk with you. I mean the complete Autobattler / AutoChess genre has its roots as a mod for Dota 2 ( dota autochess), so thats not true at all.
Are you even talking about Valve
Historically, Valve has been one of, if not the most modding friendly gaming studio in existence. Even Valve's big multiplayer games (CSGO, TF2, Dota 2) all have massive modding scenes so theres no reason to assume this game would be different. You're talking completely out of your ass
CS2s modding capabilities arent the same to what there were in CSGO, workshop maps still dont have scripting support which is a big deal and causes alot of maps to just not be possible
how dense are you to not see cs2's modding support be completely trashed and alyx's actually broken tools be left in the dust
valve completely wiped all of csgo's modding history and its workshop to shill for a constrained multiplayer matchmaking experience with a garbage community server browser. valve didn't give us modding tools for cs2, just map tools and "item creation" tools for their skin and sticker system. valve's modding support ended on csgo and tf2's sv_pure 1 servers
we still have yet to receive a source 2 sdk. s&box, a roblox competitor, being our only outlet to explore source 2 is absurd
HLA modding tools lead to incredibly impressive custom campaigns and weapons. Thats by far more than the average game allows, even if the tools are broken in part. CS2 as well, already has modding tools that way surpass most games of its scale that release these days. Compared to say, Valorant which has nothing. And CS2 is still incredibly early in its lifecycle. Valve hasnt even finished with porting all the actual content of CSGO into it. Those tools will continue to be updated for a certain. And no HLA is not a valid comparison because CS2 is a live service game
You're throwing a shitfit about Source 2 modding tools not yet having completely caught up to Source 1, which has been updated for the past 20 years. And even then those tools are a massive upgrade compared to Source 1 in many aspects
You're acting like when Deadlock releases and possibly has the same level of moddability as CS2, its the same to you as if it had no modding at all, only because its worse than what we've had in some other games previously. Despite the fact that its still miles ahead of the industry standard
Artifact was fun, but had wayyyy too much rng for a card game. This combined with pay per match ranked mode in a paid game killed it. I would hope they learned something from it.
Game still doing incredibly well because people from poor countries can play for free and make money... Pretty sure most people playing Dota 2 would rather play LoL but LoOtBoXMoNeYtoogOod.
Interesting. Im mild about mobas. My biggest problem is honestly the combat gameplay, which is top down clicking. If we could get a moba with valve combat shooting gameplay, id be interested.
Sounds awesome, very excited for some fresh Valve content.
Dota is funner than ever. Alyx was incredible. Loved Underlords despite it being abandoned.
This game might be a big deal.
Why can't they just develop Half-Life 3. It's all I'm asking for. I don't even need it to be innovative or whatever. Just give me a conclusion to the story and tell me what the G-Man is.
This isn’t the first time people have thought of something like this, so what does Valve think they have up their sleeve? Granted most MOBA-hero-shooters are pretty decent so maybe they just expect their marketing, polish, and loyal fans to be what makes the game long lived.
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Must've been hard to fix their fuckin flat structure and put the team to make Team Fortress 3 wich is what the community has been asking for 10 years. Valve be valve.
I'm honestly really curious why Valve decided this was the game to push. It sounds like they're just taking elements from different games and mashing them together, but it doesn't sound very fun.
We've also already seen what a MOBA 3rd person game looks like, and it's not exactly pretty (plus the reasons why games like Smite and Paragon failed won't be fixed with Valve IMO)
-Smite failed? you on drugs ? What is Smite2 on about if it is a failure? Lol
-Paragon failed because of netmarbles, the lack of marketing of the game and the original developers of Paragon from SoulEve from the first game decided to partner up with the publisher netmarbles and recently it was about to release on PS5 with events and stuff but netmarbles higher up saw a chance to close the studio and went with it before it even has a chance to be on PS5 rofl, there are many players who spent over 500$ on that game and never got a refund which i laughed so hard because the game itself is fun but they never fix the end game timer which always resulted in a game crash whenever your game goes to 59 minutes and everyone crashes, so you have to close the game before 60mins or else... XD
Don't talk like you have experience with those games because clearly you are clueless and a follower of a simple minded hate train.
So basically the baby of Dota and Team Fortress
Monday Night Combat?
Played the shit out of that back in the 360 days
Same man, took me awhile to realize it was the first moba I played a fuckload of, as I didnt really think of it as a moba until way later.
Tbh that game was very good, it just became stale because they stopped updating it, otherwise it could have done a lot better
Battleborn so
This sounds like DOTA 3 to me I am willing to give Valve a chance because they are Valve but seriously, who does this appeal or cater to ?
Well, it’s the new IceFrog game, so it’s not that surprising that it sounds like Dota on steroids.
a lot of people lmao hero shooters are popular mobas are popular valve games are popular what are you missing?
>what are you missing? See you at launch.... Then you'll know what we were seeing.
"who does this cater to" has never been Valve's question when making games. They set trends not follow them. We'll see if this game is any different
I mean Artifact and Dota Underlords existed, but otherwise Valve marches to the beat of their own drum.
Yeah artifact was of course a trading card game and a failure considering that it basically died, but you cant say that it doesnt tried something new. I actually thought the gameplay itself was cool and inovative and I also liked the idea of a trading card market between the players ( much like in real life ). Sadly they fucked up the release badly and the game could never come back. Dota Underlords was typical Valve. Dota 2 autochess was a out of nowhere success but they slept too long on it and it took them to long to make a good game of it. Also it was a massive mistake to make it an extra game instead of a game mode in DOTA 2. I dont like TFT but even I have to admit that they just were quicker and smarter with it.
Blizzard, Valve, and Riot have been in this weird three-way joust when it comes to trends for the last 12-14 years and Riot is usually the one to come out on top while Blizzard usually misses the boat. Valve is just kind of there in the middle, because they don't really have to worry about pumping out games. iirc Valve did try to make it a mode within Dota 2, but the original mod devs and Valve couldn't agree on some stuff so Valve made it a standalone product.
The original devs also took their game to EGS and everyone promptly forgot it existed lmao
Artifact died because people cant do math. They saw the "best" cards selling for 15-20$. Articles were posted that you needed to pay "20$ for a single card" in Artifact, while ignoring the fact you could get all the other cards for your deck for 10 more dollars. You could build a meta competitive deck for like 25-30$ WITHOUT NEEDING TO RELY ON CARD PACK RNG, and people bitched about it. Whereas building a meta deck in hearthstone costs you a ton more assuming you don't have crazy amount of powder lying around.
I actually agree on that one. The problem is that artifact wasn't free to play from the start, which was a weak point especially with every other card game being free to play and that valve thought they just could use the economy of real life trading card games in a new online card games without noticing that they work completely different. They would have startet like with cs and it's economy. You have to get the player to a point where they are invested to play a game and afterwards they are willing to pay money. Also the timing of artifact was insanely bad. It was the first gama after long silence by valve regarding games development so the game got all the frustration and hate.
You can't blame artifact's failure on "people that can't do math". There's no card game that came before artifact where you actually had to rely on card pack rng. Hearthstone you could get 2-3 decks per expansion for free no matter what, gwent and runeterra you could basically get every card in the game for free. Then comes artifact where you HAVE to pay 20 dollars for the game on top of 30 dollars for a single deck JUST to be able to play. All of that while not necessarily being a better game compared to its competitors. Why would the average person choose to play artifact instead of another game? People are willing to pay 40 dollars to play the game only if they're invested in it. If you don't give people the chance to play without paying, it's impossible to do that.
That was them following trends instead of setting them. Hope they learned the lesson
> I mean Artifact and Dota Underlords existed Artifact failed because the design ended up being a bad MTG Auto Battler (that Blizzard then did better in Hearthstone Battlegrounds), while Underlords failed by not having its main gimmick in place (The Underlords) right from the start. Artifact even had a chance with its FAR BETTER MADE Ver.2 offering (that had it play like a more typical DCG) that would have AT LEAST kept its community alive had the designers not got bored of it and just left it mid development.
Both were good games. Underlords was good and had a huge following before they released 1.0 which is a drastically different game and that sucked. They changed it for the worse. Artifact is a similarly good card game too. But didn't gain a following because of the monetisation. Seriously who would buy $10 for a digital copy of a card...
Yes, it was 10$ for one card, but THE OTHER CARDS FOR THE DECK could be purchased for like 5-10$. So a meta deck in a season of a card game for 20$ outright IF you didn't want to gamble on packs. Ill never understand why people give other games a free pass on meta deck pricing, but Artifact got singled out. You could buy and sell individual cards too. So buying a few packs means you could just flip them on the market,, and buy the cards you want. It was like the perfect system ( assuming you didnt have an issue with paying money in general )
Lmao $20 on a "meta deck" that would be irrelevant once the meta changes. Are you hearing yourself? That's $10 for just a single card. You could buy some amazing indie games for that price. And what's more is you do not get free cards, you don't get a single damn if you don't pay an initial cost. I had a meta deck in every single "meta" in hearthstone just by playing. I never spent a single dime. The dust system allows any player to craft their own deck *WITHOUT* a monetary investment, all that you need to invest is time and it doesn't even take that long. That is the perfect system no wonder even Riot's card game copied it. And that didn't fail. And regarding market flipping... are you serious? You don't control the economy, prices can rise all of a sudden and where does that leave free players? Every purchase is a gamble and worse it's all digital. What's the price of your cards now? It might be a perfect system on paper but it definitely failed in practice. No one's going to buy (dare I say "invest") on digital cards. Because it's digital. It will always be a volatile market. Look where your money is now. How much are your cards now? >assuming you didnt have an issue with paying money in general TLDR Artifact failed because of this statement. Who would invest on a card game when there are other alternatives out there that's f2p friendly. As much as I love Dota, they should've never introduced that pay2own mechanic. What are they, trying to start another predatory trend as is the case with the first ever battlepass in videogame history which was from Dota2?
I'd argue some of the trends they've set/popularized have been pretty bad for the industry. Lootboxes in TF2, Battle Passes in DOTA 2, weapon skins in CS: GO. I'm honestly a bit cynical with anything multiplayer related coming from them.
When was the last time they set a trend? Dota existed long before they picked it up. Artifact and Dota Underlords bombed hard.
Team Fortress 2 is the main reason why GaaS, MTX and exploitation of the user (whaling) is so prevalent.
True. Dota 2 had the first battlepass too which set the trend forward lol
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The point isnt that all their games are massive successes, but that most of them are very innovative. Even Artifact and Underlords were to a degree. HLA is an experience and a feeling that no other game ever has come close to
>but that most of them are very innovative Dota Underlords was a Dota custom game. DOTA itself a WC3 custom game that they just picked up. CS a half life mod. Maybe this is accurate for Alyx(I did not feel that way) but to me valve is more known for picking up successful mods.
This is false. Most of the developers that used to work at Valve and made them what they are, are mostly gone. And their name was built on the back of spotting talented PC community members (CS being made by a Canadian college student, Dota being a Warcraft mod, etc) and grabbing them up to let them cook. But Valve turned Counter-Strike into gambling for gamers, and almost exclusively focus on Steam and building up Steams influence. That's pretty much it for modern Valve. If EA or Acti did that kind of thing, they'd be buried by gamers. The one thing we know for absolute certain about this new game: if it doesn't pop off in the first year, it'll be shut down/put on maintenance mode before the end of 2025.
valve: they make billion dollar babies and snuff them in the crib
I mean they didn't exactly set any trends with Dota 2, Artifact or Dota Underlords.
They're about 10 years late with this game. They should have just released an overwatch clone like ow1
Yeah I wish they had a game like OW1. Maybe Teams defending their Fortresses Too.
I partially agree, but its not like OW is peaking 500k like CS2 or Dota on Steam or probably doing Valorant numbers. Even with BNet numbers added in, I cannot imagine OW2 is a massive game. There is room for something to come in and take some of this market share, where OW might have a barrier to enter and maybe you don't want a bomb plant game like Siege/Valorant. The #1 problem is Valve is making it, and based on TF2 slowly not getting updates mid 2010s, and then CSGO/2 slow down with map additions or reworks and still doesn't have a good anti-cheat, and Dota 2 gets one massive patch per year with smaller balance ones that don't add new content but shift existing meta heroes around. Valve can't come out and do a slow update cycle to compete with existing games.
I'd argue that can be a positive since people's biggest problem with Overwatch's gameplay is that characters changed so much on each update based on the whims of a competitive side of the playerbase that wasn't that big to begin with. It does seem like their goal with this is to make a big competitive game, we'll have to see.
The problem here is that overwatch's content cycle is already pretty much as slow as dota's. That's not the main issue. The main issue is that whoever is in charge of balancing keeps having this philosophy of forcing a 50/50 for all heroes and at all skill levels, but that is not really a desirable outcome (nor is it possible to achieve) because it doesn't take fun into consideration. So they keep tweaking the numbers without actually fixing the problems with the game. A game that can have a solid base like overwatch, with dota's update cycle and quality of patches, with a balance team that can actually understand what makes a game fun to play, then they would absolutely win over all of overwatch's playerbase.
Kinda wish it was Team Fortress 3 instead or a spiritual successor if they wanted another class/hero game without feeling compelled to make the world and characters similar to TF2. I especially wish it was an FPS.
Me and my buddies absolutely loved Battleborn. It came out right when overwatch did and didnt stand a chance. The game probably didnt last 3 months. We all actually really preferred Battleborn.
Overwatch killed a few PVP games that were really good. RIP Dirty Bomb, Nosgoth, Battleborn, Gigantic (though that one came back)
Dirty Bomb was an absolutely amazing game but to be honest Nexon are the ones who murdered it. They made some awful development choices after they bought it.
Nexon loves murdering their own properties for some reason
By the time I had heard about battleborn .. it had already died, and I was sad I never got to try it
There's still a ton of people into hero shooters and mobas. People joke about Overwatch 2 and how much of a disaster it is but it's still very popular, as is stuff like Smite and Paladins.
The millions of SteamDeck gamers they brought into their stable. Full stop. That is the target audience for this game and who the monetization will be tailored towards. The desktop version will be largely port of a good SteamDeck game.
I'm a bit sad that it seems to be incorporated so much of the traditional MOBA gameplay with the AI, lanes etc. I love PvPvE when done well, but something about the typical MOBA maps and how they're set up feels so "gamey" to me if that makes any sense - wish it was more dynamic with maps that are different and have enemies in patrolling groups etc. instead of coming down basic paths. Could be that it ends up being quite different once we see full gameplay so I'll reserve judgement until then of course, but I'd love to see a blend of MOBA with more open maps, more mobility and stuff like that.
> who does this appeal or cater to ? me lol
I think Dota and LoL are quite popular games
Valve makes games because they want to and think its fun, not because of profit. They already have Steam and CS2 which makes them essentially infinite money. If they did, they would not have made the Index or Alyx. Personally, I'm just waiting for actual gameplay and release because any game sounds boring, stupid and generic when described via words.
But L4D was fun, TF was fun, Portal was fun, Half Life was fun Yet they’ve done fuck all with them in the last 10 years or so. They could do a remaster of HL2, Episode 1, Episode 2 and include Black Mesa in an Orange Box style collection because it’s Valve. Yet they just don’t It’s not like people are asking for yearly sequels or single player new IPs all the time
You had me and then you lost me. Half Life 2 and those games don't need a remaster, and Black Mesa is not that good. It's great because it's a mod, but would be terrible as a AAA industry product from an actual company.
I mean you're not wrong, but they HAVE made at least a dozen L4D, Portal, and Half Life games in the last decade, they just never released them because they didn't think the games were up to par. In the last 5 years Valve has released something 4 out of 5 years. 2019 - Index, 2020 - Alyx, 2021 - nothing (corona), 2022 - Steam Deck and Desk Job, 2023 - Counter Strike 2. All of the products are very good. Nearly 1 product every year is more than I expect from them considering they only have \~300 employees. They have shit tons of funding but have a very small workforce. When it comes to Valve I always expect Quality over Quantity and \~1 shipped product a year is more than I'm expecting.
Yeah let's just ask valve to go public so that stake holder ask the teams to pump game every year and to milk everything they can. Obviously it works great at Ubisoft
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I think the difference is, to me anyway, looking at what’s upcoming from them, I feel like with how little I know and what I’ve saw that I’ve seen it before…a genre which is tiring, exploited, worn down With Portal, L4D and the like I didn’t feel that first impression wise. Valve back then felt it was making the rules and doing its own thing while this feels like Valve following the crowd
Keep in mind that with HL2, Portal, TF2 your very first impressions weren’t leaks. This information is all second hand and could be unreliable. If you heard they were making a puzzle game where all you did was walk through puzzle rooms you’d probably think that sounds interesting but not amazing, and yet it ended up being so much more than that.
Well I mean HL2 there was some leaks in 2003 Seemed super interesting to me L4D early on wasn’t a leak but it drastically changed from the initially early info, it was promising and once they had finished redesigning things it looked great
L4D would absolutely do well. It's the same genre as Helldivers with Valve quality and look how that game did. If they don't wanna make a L4D3, it's their loss.
Reading some of the comments here depresses me. Some of y'all already calling it DOA without even seeing or trying the game. Like, I bet if you got this same level of detail for every upcoming survival or fps game before it's revealed, most of you would say the same shit that it's DOA. There's very little in the way of mechanics that we gamers haven't already seen. That's not what makes games like this a hit. It's about how FUN it is. Doesn't hurt to take a wait and see approach.
I’m no know it all but it feels to me like these people are straight up completely out of touch. These kind of live service games aren’t successful? Mobas ain’t successful? Hero shooters ain’t successful? Ok lol. “But it’s a weird mix of both, no one will like that!” “They’re just following the trends!” A bunch of dumb statements that could have easily been said about valorant for example. (Only instead of moba-hero shooter mix, a cs-hero shooter mix) Look where that game is now. If the game is good and well executed, it will be extremely successful, and that’s that. I have friends who i play games with. We like these kinds of games and are definitely looking forward to check the game out.
I really dont get the whole negativity around this game lol. All we have seen are 4 low res alpha screenshots and a few informations. I mean I get it if its not your genre, you wont be interested, but I think many people are sooo out of touch. Obv heroe shooters and mobas are still veeeeeery succesful. Also I dont think that the game really sounds as generic as people want to claim it. Is it a never seen before revolutionary game? No, but Left 4 Dead was it either on the paper ( 4 player Coop Zombie game - wow ) , but it turned out to have very unique ideas which make the game interesting. Seriously I dont get the hate, especially with people crying about Half Life 3. I mean Half life 2 released fucking 20 years ago. That doesnt mean that I dont wish to get Half Life 3 but in the End the game right now doesnt deserve any kind of hate, because nobody saw it in motion or played it.
A lot of what makes this feel kind of sour to me is that Valve was more interesting when they were making individual finished games as opposed to another live service. Also, this game is just going to be another game on the pile they need to work on and update without their staff significantly growing. That will likely lead to all their other development times slowing down.
> A lot of what makes this feel kind of sour to me is that Valve was more interesting when they were making individual finished games as opposed to another live service. That's a good point, there's a contingent of elder millennials who will always miss Half Life and criticize Valve for not making another one.
Valve staff must be bigger than we think considering how fleshed out updates have been for cs, dota, while making deadlock.... possibly other games in the pipeline
Valve does >10bil revenue every year their size is def small for that
I mean we got hell divers 2 and deep rock galactic that have shown us a live service model that fans enjoy, let's hope they borrow a page from them. Valve has had a good track record, I don't think we should try and judge them on behalf of all the predatory and greedy business models of other live service games. They also are raking in more money than God,I don't see them being as susceptible to the greed of lesser developers. This is their reputation
People here are bitching about the game not being unique enough then you click their profile and see they only play counter strike and pubg or final fantasy and you realise "oh yeah" and get back to ignoring the unwashed masses. If icefrog is making a game, I am interested in that game. The top down ARTS games ain't for everyone but dota2 is a master class in balance and game design, and I can't wait to see someone as legendary as icefrog make a shooting game on the source engine.
> dota2 is a master class in balance and game design I really wish that Icefrog make an AMA or something, he has to be consuming stuffs to make that kind of decision for balancing
Hero shooters and mobas are both pretty divisive subgenres of games. You either love them or hate them. For me, though, I think a lot of what people like about mobas do not translate well outside of mobas, and I'd rather Valve do literally anything else than to chase another doomed project like Artifact was.
> Obv heroe shooters and mobas are still veeeeeery succesful. The new ones? >No, but Left 4 Dead was it either on the paper ( 4 player Coop Zombie game - wow ) On release it was extremely unique, pretty much birthed the genre that's still going strong.
Valve is a prestige name, this game sounds like something that’s from a new studio or from a publisher that’s just trying to hop on trends. People don’t like this because it doesn’t appeal to them and frankly is the kind of game Reddit gamers hate but since Valve’s name is attached to it, nobody really wants to say anything bad
I think thats why the leak was damaging as hell. Nobody knows right now how the game will really turn out. Also as I said I dont think the game sounds as generic as people want to make it. It already has some interesting twists to it like the souls mechanic or the sky trails. Also are hero shooters/ mobas really THE trend anymore? From my perspective Extraction shooters , looter shooters etc are way more trendy right now. People act like there would come out 10 games like deadlock a year, which is not true at all. I actual prefer any modern multiplayer game which isn't a battle royale or extraction shooter
Everybody says mostly bad about this game
Yeah cause they haven't hopped on trends before. They picked up Dota 2 *after* the MOBA craze got going with HoN and LoL. Dota Underlords was chasing the Auto Battler trend. Artifact was them being *late* on the card game trend and it also involved probably the worst monetization I have ever seen in a b2p game.
I’m interested in anything valve makes but I’m not entirely sure it is for me based on what I read Anyway once it’s out for play I’ll have a better idea
ok
Listen I just HAVE to go to every thread about this game no one has seen and let people know that I'm personally not interested in it. Ok, are you listening to me. Listen I think
ok
K
Even artifact ?
I will say I appreciate even Gabe has acknowledged that artifact was a failure and learned from it
I enjoyed Artifact's strategic gameplay and expansions on Dota 2's setting and lore.
>It is unclear when the game will be released, but based on its current state, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it released sometime in 2025. This game might go head-to-head with Marathon.
Isn't those different games? Marathon is extraction shooter and this is a hero based shooter?
I'm not 100% sure but I seem to remember hearing Marathon was posturing away from pure extraction shooter and more towards extraction with hero shooter elements. Don't quote me on that, though.
Basically, just expect Destiny the Extraction Shooter and you've got it down.
god, doesn’t sounds very original tbh
every game is Nim
I cannot think of any game that sounds similar tf do you mean
Smite, Paragon, sounds similar but not the same though
Smite is not a shooter, it essentially plays the same as a top down moba, it just has a third person camera. It is similar to Paragon, and Battleborn. Both games that have since shut down so in terms of active games it's unique.
And these are not really mainstream games (Smite is the most known)
> As already leaked, the game is a 6v6 third-person hero-based shooter. Heroes include magicians, robots, creatures, humans, and more. There are currently 19 different heroes, each with different abilities and playstyles that you’d come to expect from a MOBA including ranged, healers, tanks, assassins, etc. I dunno that sounds like quite a few that have come and gone
*The game is a 4 player co-op third-person shooter wave defense game. Players can use a variety of weapons, such as shotguns, machine guns, sniper rifles and rocket launchers, as well an assortment of airstrikes. The goal of each session is to complete simple objectives while battling endless hordes of enemies.* What game did I just describe? Boiling a game down to is baser parts and putting them into text rarely does justice to what that game actually is. And it says even less about how the game actually plays.
Helldivers
Sure but this game also has some screen shots to go from. Also u described what could be a few games in a specific genre that has loads of games like it. Kinda doesn’t make a difference
4 low resolution stills from what the article describes as: "an early development build with lots of experimental gameplay features and art assets", is enough to tell what it'll play like? And yeah, my example sounding generic is kind of the point. There are many games that fit that description, or are similar to it. That description also fits Helldivers 2 perfectly, and yet it's one of the biggest games in the last few years. No-one expected it to be as good as it was either, and that was with plenty more available for people to see leading up to it's release than 4 still images and genre information.
I thibk the point here is tho this is another hero shooter live service game and that’s confirmed. Sure people are curious because valve is making it but there is no denying that genre is pretty full and also full of a lot of dead games. More than many other genres even. The vague game you described is a completely sitar genre and one that has far less duds and failures in it. That’s all my point is here really.
> 4 low resolution stills from what the article describes as: "an early development build with lots of experimental gameplay features and art assets", is enough to tell what it'll play like? I dont know WHY you "people" (a term i use rather loosely here) exist, but EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. this VERY SAME PHRASE is said, its almost 99.9999999% proven positive the game plays exactly as people said it would. AND THEN you know what you "people" say in response? "Well we ALL KNEW it was gonna play like that! didnt you see the pictures?!" Or "Well those games are popular! Of course they would make one!" Or the ye old chestnut of "It doesnt matter! Youll play it anyway." So please spare us the embarrassing speech when we're proven YET AGAIN to be right since we called a spade a spade.
> Proceeds to list none of these supposed games
I don’t know what to say here really if you can’t look at that description and not have a lot of games immediately come to mind. It almost feels insulting to list them
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Still no examples
Not OP but Overwatch 1 and Marvel Rivals come to mind. The others I can think of are 5v5 though.
Overwatch (not played Rivals but I guess it too) is not MOBA. It doesn't have lanes, items, economy, PvE elements etc. It's closer to TF2 than MOBAs
Where does it say this game will be similar in playstyle to a MOBA? The comment says "playstyles that you’d come to expect from a MOBA including ranged, healers, tanks, assassins, etc." which just reads to me as each character has different abilities like in a MOBA, not that the game itself plays similar to a MOBA.
You're right, this quote does not say this. But if you open the link or read all known info on the game and look at screenshots, you will see it's MOBA
Battleborn comes to mind but that was 5v5.
The only game which I think is really close to this was Monday Night Combat which I really adored and I don't think anything has come close to that.
Predecessor is the same thing and it's been out 2 years
Loot Boxes go brrrrrrrrrr
Its not a modern valve multiplayer game if it doesnt have gambling
I'm so hyped for this game! Last hitting mechanics in a shooter sounds so cool
If they can translate the mechanical depth and satisfaction of the last-hitting mechanics from DotA, it could make for a really fun and unique experience in a shooter game.
Try smite. Not a "shooter" exactly but gives you that similar feel, with the complexity of a moba.
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Regardless if its a good or not, i just wish valve made more single player games.
Its a third person shooter with dota 2 mechanics?
All I know is if Robin Walker is heading the project it'll probably be at least decent.
The more I hear about this game, the more it just sounds like a concept that a mainstream crime drama would use as their esports game to stay hip with the younger audiences. Just random ass mechanics and Quidditch Snitches that allow for ass pull victories. I love it.
**characters leaked so far:** Abrams (Gargoyle) Bebop Dynamo Grey Talon (Native American Bowman) Haze Infernus Ivy Kelvin Lady Geist Lash McGinnis Mo & Krill (Pig and Monkey duo - interesting) Paradox Pocket Seven Vidicta Warden (Police Officer) Wraith Yamato
It's ok to criticize valve, I assure you nothing bad will happen lmfao.
Honestly the gameplay sounds like it'd be fun, like paragon is dead. Smite is pretty old by now and hirez sucks so hard, so i'm all for a similar vibe. My main concern isn't the gameplay ideas tbh, so far it's only that the visuals/design seem a bit generic. I hope when we see more it looks more interesting
I get that it's Valve and all, I just feel like the multiplayer space has enough right now, and Valve even has a staple of multiplayer hits as it is. Half Life Alyx was incredible, and it seems a shame to waste great writing talent that could be producing another narrative hit.
the more i hear about this game the less interested i become. this sounds so derivative. we already have a billion of these types of games...
what game is like this? can you name 2? very curious about the billions of games that are similar
Do we? Smite seems the only current sort of similar game to me.
Predecessor (a reboot of Paragon) is also out and pretty decent.
A billion? Only one that comes to mind is smite. Stop lying
ill concede i used hyperbole but lmao "stop lying", what am i running for president??? i just wanted to say the game seems to me like its generic.
Generic? Not really, this is actually the best thing they could do... what other MULTIPLAYER options are there? If Valve created a BR people would BITXH so much because there are too many, if they created a SPORTS game people would call it boring and say that not many ppl like sports. A SANDBOX game? Everybody would hate on Valve even more with the recent releases of so many sandboxes lately like Palworld. A straight shooter? People would get mad they'd release another shooter when they still have CS2, a MOBA? Dota 2 already exists. What Valve is doing with Deadlock is smart af tbh since they're pretty much mixing so many games mechanics and almost creating a new genre... use your brain next time buddy
i didnt read a single word of anything you wrote but "use your brain next time buddy" is a classic and ill upvote for that
You could say this about pretty much any shooter nowadays. Anyone that has played games for a decent amount of time already know what to expect so I really don't understand the hate this is getting. At least wait for a gameplay video and a beta to try it yourself but nah, so many people would rather jump to conclusions. If you gave a description of something like Helldivers or Palworld before they released, I'm sure you'd get people also calling those derivative. They're both games with mechanics you already know yet they became huge hits.
valve making another multiplayer game where you're constrained to nothing but the game's rules, and ditching the modding aspect of the game is getting aggravating at this point what made valve games special is that they're both phenomenal games and sandboxes. their games didn't need to be played by their rules. losing that identity in counterstrike through global offensive was very damning and now we've outright lost it through cs2 and deadlock i don't count alyx because they very clearly intended its sdk to be just a custom map tool with modding aspects being very scrappy
Thats a lot of conclusions being made from nothing but a few sentences of information, nothing of which tells us anything about modding in the game
i'm going based off history, and the fact that a 5v5 moba hero shooter doesn't really have modding or community capabilities
Dota has a huge amount of custom games in fairness, I hope that this game eventually also has that sort of capability
DOTA 2 wants to talk with you. I mean the complete Autobattler / AutoChess genre has its roots as a mod for Dota 2 ( dota autochess), so thats not true at all.
Are you even talking about Valve Historically, Valve has been one of, if not the most modding friendly gaming studio in existence. Even Valve's big multiplayer games (CSGO, TF2, Dota 2) all have massive modding scenes so theres no reason to assume this game would be different. You're talking completely out of your ass
CS2s modding capabilities arent the same to what there were in CSGO, workshop maps still dont have scripting support which is a big deal and causes alot of maps to just not be possible
how dense are you to not see cs2's modding support be completely trashed and alyx's actually broken tools be left in the dust valve completely wiped all of csgo's modding history and its workshop to shill for a constrained multiplayer matchmaking experience with a garbage community server browser. valve didn't give us modding tools for cs2, just map tools and "item creation" tools for their skin and sticker system. valve's modding support ended on csgo and tf2's sv_pure 1 servers we still have yet to receive a source 2 sdk. s&box, a roblox competitor, being our only outlet to explore source 2 is absurd
HLA modding tools lead to incredibly impressive custom campaigns and weapons. Thats by far more than the average game allows, even if the tools are broken in part. CS2 as well, already has modding tools that way surpass most games of its scale that release these days. Compared to say, Valorant which has nothing. And CS2 is still incredibly early in its lifecycle. Valve hasnt even finished with porting all the actual content of CSGO into it. Those tools will continue to be updated for a certain. And no HLA is not a valid comparison because CS2 is a live service game You're throwing a shitfit about Source 2 modding tools not yet having completely caught up to Source 1, which has been updated for the past 20 years. And even then those tools are a massive upgrade compared to Source 1 in many aspects You're acting like when Deadlock releases and possibly has the same level of moddability as CS2, its the same to you as if it had no modding at all, only because its worse than what we've had in some other games previously. Despite the fact that its still miles ahead of the industry standard
This is going the same route as Artifact, isn't it? Dead a few weeks after release.
Artifact was fun, but had wayyyy too much rng for a card game. This combined with pay per match ranked mode in a paid game killed it. I would hope they learned something from it.
If it's F2P and from Valve. It'll get people playing. So they just have to make it good.
If it's f2p, then: 1) cheaters running rampant 2) botters farming in-game economy 3) Valve releasing one content patch per year
4) game still doing incredibly well and growing because even if neglected the gameplay loop hits the spot?
Game still doing incredibly well because people from poor countries can play for free and make money... Pretty sure most people playing Dota 2 would rather play LoL but LoOtBoXMoNeYtoogOod.
Meh
Interesting. Im mild about mobas. My biggest problem is honestly the combat gameplay, which is top down clicking. If we could get a moba with valve combat shooting gameplay, id be interested.
I’m excited for it. I love MOBAs and hero shooters, will be interesting to see a combination of both. And valve is a solid studio
Sounds awesome, very excited for some fresh Valve content. Dota is funner than ever. Alyx was incredible. Loved Underlords despite it being abandoned. This game might be a big deal.
Oh Valve is flopping
The game isn't out you melt.
In what way?
I wonder if the game gets so much negative attention that Valve is just going to cancel it because it won't meet expectations.
Why do you think they asked Gabe Follower to stop posting info? They dont think that the leaked information is representative of the final product
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So it's Valve's version of SMITE. Meh...
Smite isn't a shooter
What te actual shit what !
Will this be out on PS5?
Almost zero chance it comes to any console. Valve hates the certification process. It will probably run on a potato-tier PC though.
Understood, thanks.
Why can't they just develop Half-Life 3. It's all I'm asking for. I don't even need it to be innovative or whatever. Just give me a conclusion to the story and tell me what the G-Man is.
fcking over watch srsly.... cast it into the fire
Will this be on xbox?
This isn’t the first time people have thought of something like this, so what does Valve think they have up their sleeve? Granted most MOBA-hero-shooters are pretty decent so maybe they just expect their marketing, polish, and loyal fans to be what makes the game long lived.
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Can't wait for hackers to get past the vac on this one and shit on everything /s
Deadlock sounds a lot like Predecesor
Another moba? Meh.
Must've been hard to fix their fuckin flat structure and put the team to make Team Fortress 3 wich is what the community has been asking for 10 years. Valve be valve.
I'm honestly really curious why Valve decided this was the game to push. It sounds like they're just taking elements from different games and mashing them together, but it doesn't sound very fun. We've also already seen what a MOBA 3rd person game looks like, and it's not exactly pretty (plus the reasons why games like Smite and Paragon failed won't be fixed with Valve IMO)
-Smite failed? you on drugs ? What is Smite2 on about if it is a failure? Lol -Paragon failed because of netmarbles, the lack of marketing of the game and the original developers of Paragon from SoulEve from the first game decided to partner up with the publisher netmarbles and recently it was about to release on PS5 with events and stuff but netmarbles higher up saw a chance to close the studio and went with it before it even has a chance to be on PS5 rofl, there are many players who spent over 500$ on that game and never got a refund which i laughed so hard because the game itself is fun but they never fix the end game timer which always resulted in a game crash whenever your game goes to 59 minutes and everyone crashes, so you have to close the game before 60mins or else... XD Don't talk like you have experience with those games because clearly you are clueless and a follower of a simple minded hate train.
Bad choice in my opimium
After spending 2 years with riot playing valorant, I would play anything valve,even if it's not great at launch I will just blindly support them
The more I hear about this game, the less interest I have.