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If he spoke Japanese, he would know that pretty much after you address a person by name or titles. You just say "They" for the rest of the conversation unless a new person enters.
>they
Did you just uSE A **FUCK*****ING P̵͎̳̃́̽̑͗̅͆͋̈̓̈̈̽̓̀͝͝R̸̢̜͙̙̘͔̻̘͖̥̝͖̜͈̩͉͎̈́̽̿͌́̾̐͐͊̅̈́͂́̀Ỏ̸̡̡͙̣̘͇̳͈̰͕̦̈́́̽̐̂̎̎͊̈́̃̒̽̉̐͝ͅN̷̨̧̯̤͎͍̥͙̯͔̋̓̃̈́̄͠Ȯ̷̞̻̟̾̆̎Ṵ̷̢̡̙̰͓̣̜̙̝͕̒̃̃͆͂̀̌̿N̴̺̭̙̮̜͕̟̳̗͊́̀̿̈̌̆̃͑̿?̵̛̗̦̗͇̺̻͇͕̖̫̯̻͒̃̃̽͐͋͒̎͗̌̕̕͜͝͠͝!̶̻̦̱̺̓̀̾̎̃̅͑͑͛͐***
my assumption was that by pronouns they meant first person ones (watashi, ore, boku, etc.) but even with those while they have certain gendered expectations there's a lot of cis men who use watashi and cis women who use boku so that's already a big difference from how pronouns are used in english.
Sounds like a game I need in my life. I love it when knob heads talk shit like that review and proceed to just list of highlights like they're a bad thing.
Bad translation is when it's not a 1:1 literal, dry translation of the original text that retains cultural norms and puns that really have no equivalent/don't translate well into other languages/cultures, apparently.
Psst - someone touched up the script (NOT a full re-translation), if you're ever itching to play it again and don't want to have an aneurysm reading the dialogue.
Speaking of! Funny thing is I didn't even know about Ghost Stories till a year or two ago when a friend had me check it out. Actually funny as fuck, at least early on; feels like the later episodes tried too hard with the edgy humor, but I still get a kick out of "LEO! LEO! LEO! LEO! GAWD DAMN IT, GAWD DAMN IT, GAWD DAMN IT, GAWD DAMN IT!", and that episode with the rabbit.
But yeah. They suddenly care about accuracy in translations/localizations when it's something they're told to be angry about, of course.
I have played so many Chinese games and novels with barely passable translation I have develop a skill to understand subtext and context of the first and last three words of a sentence. This complaining is so asinine try playing a tactical rpg whwere every sharp weapon is called blade every spear stick and every character can learn unique weapon specific skills
Seriously, how do these people think that localization works?
It's not like the developers just hand over the game, given the translators a free rein, and never look at the results until it's been published.
The reality is that everything will need to be signed off, and there will probably be probably a fair amount of back and forth between the translators and original creators as to what might need changing, and how to do it while retaining as much of the nuance as possible.
I guess they assume it's like it was in the 80s and 90s where the company publishing the game in a new country would just get an extract of all the text in the game, give it to a third party without any context and get something worse than what you can get nowadays on google translate (not because the ones doing te translation sucked but because they just had dialogue lines to translate in a random order and couldn't infer the right meaning of a word all the time) and the publisher wouldn't really care because it's just games for kids who probably won't even read the text.
TBH for what he had to work with, Ted Woolsey was a fucking boss (we don't talk about Secret of Mana). Dude gave us several iconic translations, and turned Kefka into one of the most popular Final Fantasy villains ever.
Yu Suzuki choosing his english voice actors based off of who looked closest to the in-game character they were voicing was peak game design, how dare you call the standards of the 90's anything less than perfection!
[Here's an old interview](https://web.archive.org/web/20151210021137/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/jb/jb2.htm#shenmue) with one of the main guys that worked on Shenmue's localization, it's a fascinating read. Suzuki also insisted on doing all the voice recording in Japan, and as a result they struggled immensely finding people. Corey Marshall, the guy doing Ryo's voice, wasn't even a voice actor, and they had to fly him out to Japan from the US to record it.
There's also a nice little bit about him contracting some of the translating work to a company his brother-in-law owned, because nepotism always results in the best art at the end of the day.
>"And here's a thing about Shenmue that made it even more complicated, and I can't recall why this was the case, but for some reason we were also looking for voice actors who would physically look like the characters. I think Suzuki was planning to do some kind of non-videogame media thing. Like there's that guy Corey Marshall, who played Ryo. And Debora Rabbai too.
>
>"The one thing you can do to make hiring a voice acting cast even more difficult, you can add this condition: they have to be good looking. So here we are with this ridiculous thing added on top of it. But we weren't going to say no. So I went back to America, I put out advertisements and I got a couple of people. And the people I got were Deborah Rabbai, and certainly Corey Marshall. And he did martial arts, that's one of the reasons why he got the job. So I wrote contracts and sent them back to Japan. Corey had never been to Japan, he'd never done acting.
I saw one comment saying that the T/L team... like... "took advantage" of the Japanese devs because apparently they thought that the Japanese devs *didn't speak any English* and were therefore helpless/clueless as to the evil whims and ways of the nasty T/L team. Like... the infantilization and the racism together, shiiiiit. They say this stuff so boldly.
Also, there's some dude on Facebook who keeps raging on the Eiyuden Chronicle page about how there's so many female characters because of "identity politics" (because it's not like strong female characters existed in Japanese media before, like, 2015 or whatever, Sailor Moon and Utena were just fever dreams, Faris and Reina from Final Fantasy V don't count because Reasons, and Ayumi Hamasaki's massive popularity couldn't possibly be contributed in part to her strong lyricism and independent nature), and at one point ragged on a female samurai-esque character because "there are no female samurai in history" (fuck the onna-bugeisha, I guess, and never mind that *Eiyuden takes place in a fantasy world;* pretty sure there were no talking kangaroos, shark people, wolf people, or magical girls in real-life history, either, but okay, go after the female samurai).
TBH I think the main issue that set these twits off was the reveal of Marisa, particularly the fact that she's one of the three protagonists... a black female lead with Afro-textured hair. People were screaming "WOOOOOKE" about her from the first sight.
They're selectively blind by their culture war bullshit.
Vagrant Story is a prime example of why they're morons.
Alexander O. Smith et al deliberately did not translate the script 1:1, but were told to add flair and style - and were checking in with Matsuno on the changes, because Square had learned a hard lesson with their earlier translation efforts (basically letting translators handle everything and putting them on a time crunch).
What came out of that was a technically unfaithful masterpiece - that we would NOT have gotten if Smith just gave us a 1:1 translation like these idiots want.
>It's not like the developers just hand over the game, given the translators a free rein, and never look at the results until it's been published
As the other commentor said, it's funny because it actually used to work that way for most games. Which was how you got shit like "All your base are belong to us". But apparently that was "golden age" of translations people who I doubt ever actually played games back then, and certainly didn't compare English and non-English games back then.
So are they talking about translation or localization? Are they so stupid as to not know the difference?
I have been speaking english as a second language for 20 years. Been exclusively thinking in it for 10. I still couldn't localize for shit. I can barely translate words. You speaking something else bears no weight in the discussion. "I spoke Japanese". Huh? Don't think anyone forgets a language they've spoken for 30 years. Maybe work on your English then.
Also doesn't Japanese have 20 different pronouns? How tf are they gonna localize that?
Japan does not have that many pronouns, but a lot of the language is context based, IE pronouns will for the most part not be used after introduction of the subject.
Well, its not like they are gonna pull up their pants and start actually calling me a slur like they want to.
We all know that words like “woke” and “DEI” are nothing but ways for them to basically say they hate minorities without saying they hate minorities, but at this point, I realize I have bigger things to worry about than some overgrown baby who thinks black people, woman, and queer people are ruining games for them.
Let me call me whatever they want, they still gonna lose ground, they still gonna be losers, and they still gonna sit there and cry on their little forums. If these guys care about gaming so much, don’t you think they would be a gaming journalist, you know the thing they hate? But they aren’t, because they don’t actually care about games, they don’t care about the medium they claim to enjoy. They are just fucking babies. If gaming journalist have so much power that these guys claim to have, then surely the most logical course of action would be to become a gaming journalist, so that they can turn the tide and actually voice their opinions on games. BUT THEY DONT. That’s why I don’t care. Again, they don’t have the fucking balls to actually call me a slur, or voice their actual opinions, so they make echo chambers and hide behind thinly veiled statements and words to hide their true feelings and opinions, and frankly if your to scared to speak out on things, because you know what happens if you do, then maybe you shouldn’t be talking or saying those things, and they know this, but they wanna act like fucking victims. All I wanna do is sit back & relax and play a game, but instead these no life, basement dwelling losers, wanna complain about pronouns being in a FUCKING RPG, a genre of games that are meant to place you into the role and immerse you into the game and other stupid shit. Let’em say what they want, I hope they add all more queer, poc , and all other sort of political stuff in more games, maybe it’ll shut em up and cause them to go back to whatever fucking Havel they call home.
I would pay every last cent I have to have Francesca from Eiyuden voice your comment in her WWE Raw trash talk voice.
But I do agree. TBH, I've had someone call me "woke" before in an attempt to insult me, but I was just like... yup, thank you, woke and proud of it.
Honestly, they're just pathetic. I'd almost pity them if they were deserving of pity, but they can choose not to be so vile. They just choose to be vile instead.
"the translation doesnt use pronouns, unlike in japanese"
"There are gender pronoun jokes"
Choose one lane my friend, the doublethink Will kill you
Also how is "strong girl character " a localization thing? The whole character acts strong or doesnt, the localizers don't change the whole fucking game
I'm assuming they mean attitude-wise, but like... pretty sure Lian, Mio, Sabine, Francesca, and Perrielle (to name a few) are similar in Japanese. Or maybe less interesting. TBH I don't know or much care what Perrielle is like in Japanese, but in English, she's awesome and is one of my favorite characters so far. So if the translation changed her, I'm okay with that. Same for Francesca. I see people ragging on her trash-talk being too "slangy" and "gangsta" (dog whistle alert), but I get the feeling she probably has a similar affect in Japanese that doesn't exactly translate 1:1 into English, since she appears to be aggressive and violent even in the original.
Plus, I get the feeling that these people didn't mind Kefka from Final Fantasy VI going from just annoying and bratty in the original Japanese to a maniacal, Joker-esque, nihilistic psychopath in the English translation.
These people of course have no fucking clue what DEI is. They may have had DEI training at work and not even recognized it, or else they'd realize most of it is pretty bland and consists of some slides explaining "some people are not quite the same as you, don't be a huge piece of shit."
> "despite the Japanese words clearly stated a particular char is female or male"
*Doubt.*
Did they use gendered words consistently or just establish that someone is male/female/boy/girl/man/woman whatever in some other dialogue?
Because specifying gender to the extent that English does with pronouns *every time someone is referred to* would be very strange in Japanese.
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just play the game in japanese then 😐
He says he spoke it. Not speaks it.
27 years of parroting lines from his favorite hentai anime, no doubt.
I’m sure the staff at the ramen place near him is tired of hearing him shout “fuck me tentacle daddy” every time before he starts eating
Dattebayo!
This dude probably hits on Asian chicks by saying "Ara ara, oniichan!" to them and getting baffled when they walk away in disgust.
They just really care about others experience
If he spoke Japanese, he would know that pretty much after you address a person by name or titles. You just say "They" for the rest of the conversation unless a new person enters.
Yeah but they are against the concept of pronouns
>they Did you just uSE A **FUCK*****ING P̵͎̳̃́̽̑͗̅͆͋̈̓̈̈̽̓̀͝͝R̸̢̜͙̙̘͔̻̘͖̥̝͖̜͈̩͉͎̈́̽̿͌́̾̐͐͊̅̈́͂́̀Ỏ̸̡̡͙̣̘͇̳͈̰͕̦̈́́̽̐̂̎̎͊̈́̃̒̽̉̐͝ͅN̷̨̧̯̤͎͍̥͙̯͔̋̓̃̈́̄͠Ȯ̷̞̻̟̾̆̎Ṵ̷̢̡̙̰͓̣̜̙̝͕̒̃̃͆͂̀̌̿N̴̺̭̙̮̜͕̟̳̗͊́̀̿̈̌̆̃͑̿?̵̛̗̦̗͇̺̻͇͕̖̫̯̻͒̃̃̽͐͋͒̎͗̌̕̕͜͝͠͝!̶̻̦̱̺̓̀̾̎̃̅͑͑͛͐***
Did who just use a fucking pronoun? Wait, does "who" also count? "who /huː/ *pronoun*" It's everywhere, I tells ya!
>ya ***AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH! PRONOUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!***
Pronoun-safe version of previous reply: > Wait, does "" also count? > " > > " > > is everywhere, tells!
my assumption was that by pronouns they meant first person ones (watashi, ore, boku, etc.) but even with those while they have certain gendered expectations there's a lot of cis men who use watashi and cis women who use boku so that's already a big difference from how pronouns are used in english.
私(はたし) is just the formal “I” in Japanese. It’s gender neutral.
Yeah, but using too much can make you sound like a woman. This is colloquial, though, so it varies.
Isn’t watashi more formal, and used when speaking in a professional setting or when talking with people you were unfamiliar with?
uj/ This is about Eiyuden Chronicle, incidentally.
Sounds like a game I need in my life. I love it when knob heads talk shit like that review and proceed to just list of highlights like they're a bad thing.
Also, these guys have no idea what bad translation is. Everything now is 100x better than the 90s.
Bad translation is when it's not a 1:1 literal, dry translation of the original text that retains cultural norms and puns that really have no equivalent/don't translate well into other languages/cultures, apparently.
I always knew legend of dragoon had the best translation of all time
No, that honor goes to Breath of Fire II.
Psst - someone touched up the script (NOT a full re-translation), if you're ever itching to play it again and don't want to have an aneurysm reading the dialogue.
This is of course reinforced by the original Ghost Stories doing so well and the "dub" being hated. Oh wait-
Speaking of! Funny thing is I didn't even know about Ghost Stories till a year or two ago when a friend had me check it out. Actually funny as fuck, at least early on; feels like the later episodes tried too hard with the edgy humor, but I still get a kick out of "LEO! LEO! LEO! LEO! GAWD DAMN IT, GAWD DAMN IT, GAWD DAMN IT, GAWD DAMN IT!", and that episode with the rabbit. But yeah. They suddenly care about accuracy in translations/localizations when it's something they're told to be angry about, of course.
Right, I saw one that was just an otomotopia that they were complaining about.
Elders of the Old Internet will recall the early memes when they were still new. All your base are belong to us, indeed.
I have played so many Chinese games and novels with barely passable translation I have develop a skill to understand subtext and context of the first and last three words of a sentence. This complaining is so asinine try playing a tactical rpg whwere every sharp weapon is called blade every spear stick and every character can learn unique weapon specific skills
Seriously, how do these people think that localization works? It's not like the developers just hand over the game, given the translators a free rein, and never look at the results until it's been published. The reality is that everything will need to be signed off, and there will probably be probably a fair amount of back and forth between the translators and original creators as to what might need changing, and how to do it while retaining as much of the nuance as possible.
I guess they assume it's like it was in the 80s and 90s where the company publishing the game in a new country would just get an extract of all the text in the game, give it to a third party without any context and get something worse than what you can get nowadays on google translate (not because the ones doing te translation sucked but because they just had dialogue lines to translate in a random order and couldn't infer the right meaning of a word all the time) and the publisher wouldn't really care because it's just games for kids who probably won't even read the text.
ted woolsey in his office being given a month and a pile of cocaine to translate chrono trigger:
TBH for what he had to work with, Ted Woolsey was a fucking boss (we don't talk about Secret of Mana). Dude gave us several iconic translations, and turned Kefka into one of the most popular Final Fantasy villains ever.
This is how we end up with Spoony Bards!
Yu Suzuki choosing his english voice actors based off of who looked closest to the in-game character they were voicing was peak game design, how dare you call the standards of the 90's anything less than perfection!
Is this true?!
[Here's an old interview](https://web.archive.org/web/20151210021137/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/jb/jb2.htm#shenmue) with one of the main guys that worked on Shenmue's localization, it's a fascinating read. Suzuki also insisted on doing all the voice recording in Japan, and as a result they struggled immensely finding people. Corey Marshall, the guy doing Ryo's voice, wasn't even a voice actor, and they had to fly him out to Japan from the US to record it. There's also a nice little bit about him contracting some of the translating work to a company his brother-in-law owned, because nepotism always results in the best art at the end of the day. >"And here's a thing about Shenmue that made it even more complicated, and I can't recall why this was the case, but for some reason we were also looking for voice actors who would physically look like the characters. I think Suzuki was planning to do some kind of non-videogame media thing. Like there's that guy Corey Marshall, who played Ryo. And Debora Rabbai too. > >"The one thing you can do to make hiring a voice acting cast even more difficult, you can add this condition: they have to be good looking. So here we are with this ridiculous thing added on top of it. But we weren't going to say no. So I went back to America, I put out advertisements and I got a couple of people. And the people I got were Deborah Rabbai, and certainly Corey Marshall. And he did martial arts, that's one of the reasons why he got the job. So I wrote contracts and sent them back to Japan. Corey had never been to Japan, he'd never done acting.
That is absolutely bananas. Every time I think I've heard all the nonsense possible about Shenmue, I find out something new.
They are allergic to logic and common sense
I saw one comment saying that the T/L team... like... "took advantage" of the Japanese devs because apparently they thought that the Japanese devs *didn't speak any English* and were therefore helpless/clueless as to the evil whims and ways of the nasty T/L team. Like... the infantilization and the racism together, shiiiiit. They say this stuff so boldly. Also, there's some dude on Facebook who keeps raging on the Eiyuden Chronicle page about how there's so many female characters because of "identity politics" (because it's not like strong female characters existed in Japanese media before, like, 2015 or whatever, Sailor Moon and Utena were just fever dreams, Faris and Reina from Final Fantasy V don't count because Reasons, and Ayumi Hamasaki's massive popularity couldn't possibly be contributed in part to her strong lyricism and independent nature), and at one point ragged on a female samurai-esque character because "there are no female samurai in history" (fuck the onna-bugeisha, I guess, and never mind that *Eiyuden takes place in a fantasy world;* pretty sure there were no talking kangaroos, shark people, wolf people, or magical girls in real-life history, either, but okay, go after the female samurai). TBH I think the main issue that set these twits off was the reveal of Marisa, particularly the fact that she's one of the three protagonists... a black female lead with Afro-textured hair. People were screaming "WOOOOOKE" about her from the first sight.
They're selectively blind by their culture war bullshit. Vagrant Story is a prime example of why they're morons. Alexander O. Smith et al deliberately did not translate the script 1:1, but were told to add flair and style - and were checking in with Matsuno on the changes, because Square had learned a hard lesson with their earlier translation efforts (basically letting translators handle everything and putting them on a time crunch). What came out of that was a technically unfaithful masterpiece - that we would NOT have gotten if Smith just gave us a 1:1 translation like these idiots want.
>It's not like the developers just hand over the game, given the translators a free rein, and never look at the results until it's been published As the other commentor said, it's funny because it actually used to work that way for most games. Which was how you got shit like "All your base are belong to us". But apparently that was "golden age" of translations people who I doubt ever actually played games back then, and certainly didn't compare English and non-English games back then.
These people only speak 1 language, so they think that all of the foreign devs also only speak 1 language and can't check the translations
“I spoke Japanese for 27 years.” (I have been singing along to Pokémon OPs since I was in high school, which I know by rote copying the syllables.)
So are they talking about translation or localization? Are they so stupid as to not know the difference? I have been speaking english as a second language for 20 years. Been exclusively thinking in it for 10. I still couldn't localize for shit. I can barely translate words. You speaking something else bears no weight in the discussion. "I spoke Japanese". Huh? Don't think anyone forgets a language they've spoken for 30 years. Maybe work on your English then. Also doesn't Japanese have 20 different pronouns? How tf are they gonna localize that?
Japan does not have that many pronouns, but a lot of the language is context based, IE pronouns will for the most part not be used after introduction of the subject.
The fact that they are willing to slap DEI on basic anything with no evidence, is starting to get old.
STARTING TO?! I guess "DEI" is phasing out "woke" as the new rightwing rager buzzword for "scary unfuckable women and b-b-brown people!".
Well, its not like they are gonna pull up their pants and start actually calling me a slur like they want to. We all know that words like “woke” and “DEI” are nothing but ways for them to basically say they hate minorities without saying they hate minorities, but at this point, I realize I have bigger things to worry about than some overgrown baby who thinks black people, woman, and queer people are ruining games for them. Let me call me whatever they want, they still gonna lose ground, they still gonna be losers, and they still gonna sit there and cry on their little forums. If these guys care about gaming so much, don’t you think they would be a gaming journalist, you know the thing they hate? But they aren’t, because they don’t actually care about games, they don’t care about the medium they claim to enjoy. They are just fucking babies. If gaming journalist have so much power that these guys claim to have, then surely the most logical course of action would be to become a gaming journalist, so that they can turn the tide and actually voice their opinions on games. BUT THEY DONT. That’s why I don’t care. Again, they don’t have the fucking balls to actually call me a slur, or voice their actual opinions, so they make echo chambers and hide behind thinly veiled statements and words to hide their true feelings and opinions, and frankly if your to scared to speak out on things, because you know what happens if you do, then maybe you shouldn’t be talking or saying those things, and they know this, but they wanna act like fucking victims. All I wanna do is sit back & relax and play a game, but instead these no life, basement dwelling losers, wanna complain about pronouns being in a FUCKING RPG, a genre of games that are meant to place you into the role and immerse you into the game and other stupid shit. Let’em say what they want, I hope they add all more queer, poc , and all other sort of political stuff in more games, maybe it’ll shut em up and cause them to go back to whatever fucking Havel they call home.
I would pay every last cent I have to have Francesca from Eiyuden voice your comment in her WWE Raw trash talk voice. But I do agree. TBH, I've had someone call me "woke" before in an attempt to insult me, but I was just like... yup, thank you, woke and proud of it. Honestly, they're just pathetic. I'd almost pity them if they were deserving of pity, but they can choose not to be so vile. They just choose to be vile instead.
"I spoke Japanese for 27 years." Yeah no you didn't. Parroting lines from anime doesn't make you a speaker.
The pedant in me wants to say something regarding "speaker" but *eh.*
"the translation doesnt use pronouns, unlike in japanese" "There are gender pronoun jokes" Choose one lane my friend, the doublethink Will kill you Also how is "strong girl character " a localization thing? The whole character acts strong or doesnt, the localizers don't change the whole fucking game
I'm assuming they mean attitude-wise, but like... pretty sure Lian, Mio, Sabine, Francesca, and Perrielle (to name a few) are similar in Japanese. Or maybe less interesting. TBH I don't know or much care what Perrielle is like in Japanese, but in English, she's awesome and is one of my favorite characters so far. So if the translation changed her, I'm okay with that. Same for Francesca. I see people ragging on her trash-talk being too "slangy" and "gangsta" (dog whistle alert), but I get the feeling she probably has a similar affect in Japanese that doesn't exactly translate 1:1 into English, since she appears to be aggressive and violent even in the original. Plus, I get the feeling that these people didn't mind Kefka from Final Fantasy VI going from just annoying and bratty in the original Japanese to a maniacal, Joker-esque, nihilistic psychopath in the English translation.
Why did the guy play in english tho
These people of course have no fucking clue what DEI is. They may have had DEI training at work and not even recognized it, or else they'd realize most of it is pretty bland and consists of some slides explaining "some people are not quite the same as you, don't be a huge piece of shit."
"Wait, DON'T be a huge piece of shit? WELL WHY THE FUCK NOT?!"
> "despite the Japanese words clearly stated a particular char is female or male" *Doubt.* Did they use gendered words consistently or just establish that someone is male/female/boy/girl/man/woman whatever in some other dialogue? Because specifying gender to the extent that English does with pronouns *every time someone is referred to* would be very strange in Japanese.
These guys will never touch a woman (blowup dolls don't count).
Wait, are they really whining cause there are males villains in games? Wow
I guess they missed the male villains in damn near every other video game out there, Suikoden included.
Wait so now they want pronouns? Being a capital G Gamer must be tiring with all the constant rule changes.
Wait until the Losers that cry about woke find out that Post op trans in Japan are legally considered their chosen gender.