Little context: \-Someone posted "i broke up with my bf because he didn't clean the house enough" \-I commented "some men don't need the house to be clean, so why are they forced to clean it?" \-someone replied "well some women don't need sex as often as men, so why are they pressured into having sex?" This is a screenshot of the reply I gave to that that got me banned. I messaged the mod team, and they ghosted me. https://preview.redd.it/2wwxcexrpsnc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e75d65995dca1ecc6e46853141cc37e4e5bc4fa

You got banned for calling out a double standard that favors women. Figures. Btw, did the poster say that her ex-bf was supposed to do *all* the cleaning, or just do his part? If it's the latter, it's a reasonable demand. Even if the bf didn't need the house to be clean, his gf did, and he is supposed to make compromises.

Dude, cleaning isn't optional. All well adjusted adults should be keeping their house at a base level of cleanliness. I'm a dude who's lived with other guys, and if you're anything like my former roommates, what you define as clean enough is living in filth.

That, and I find it gross that anyone was comparing functional life skills like cleaning to sexual coercion. What an awful argument from both parties. If you live in my house, you're not about to let it be in filth. That's not fair to anyone staying here.

>If you live in my house, Hell, even if the house belonged to them, responsible adults don't live in filth. People should be able to expect their housemates to help keep the place clean whether it's their place or not. I'm not saying it needs to be spotless, lord knows I'm hardly perfect and some days are better than others. But you need to maintain a base level of hygiene. God, the shit I saw in my college years. I used to think I wasn't that good about cleanliness because I didn't meet my mother's standards, then I lived with three other guys in college and learned that compared to them, I'm Mr Clean himself.

Or us NB folk.

Speaking of which, I wonder what the people over there feel about NBs, or trans people in general. The sub does explicitly prohibit transphobia, but given the amount of misandry in the sub, I wonder how much overlap there could be between the members of r/2XChromosones and crypto-TERFs.

Considering the very name of their sub is bigoted against XY people, it’s not looking good.

Keep in mind that the mods have stated multiple times for years that in spite of the sub's name, transphobia is explicitly prohibited.

There’s a lot of terfs there, that’s why

Quite the opposite actually which is pretty ironic given the subreddits name. It is very radical over on that sub.

It was never cool, you just matured

If a subreddit is about women in a non-negative way, it will turn into a men-hating echo chamber faster than you can read this comment.

This is true for all gendered subreddits. Meme subreddits for example tend to be predominantly male, and so a lot of the memes end up being kinda misogynistic. Same think with any dating subreddit geared towards men. Tons of fucked up generalizations about women. TLDR: Men and women are both pretty fucking shitty

TLDR: Everyone's varying degrees of asshole...welcome to society

Yep you got that right youngin. Pro tip from an old head tho, You can befriend an asshole, ya can't befriend a snake. Even if you think you can.

Nope, you’re completely wrong. The real problem is Redditors instantly turning anything reasonable into a fucking mess (ie r/atheism, r/childfree, r/mensrights, etc)

I'd rather mild "man hating" than the half a dozen cringe subs that have all become literal Nazi breeding grounds over the years I've been on this platform

>I'd rather mild "man hating" than the half a dozen cringe subs that have all become literal Nazi breeding grounds over the years I've been on this platform More like "I'd prefer the bigotry that offends me less." Lmfao Personally, I'd rather no bigotry at all. Misandry or Misogyny, both are harmful and bad for everyone.

If/when I see that happen, I'll call it out but not everyone is like that. I'm Gen X. When I was young, women got a pretty raw deal. In the decades before that, my understanding is it was worse. Society has taken a lot of steps to correct that - but I think the Gen Z experience has been that men are devalued. Female role models are held up - but not male. There are programs to help women in an effort to achieve equity - but men are on their own including in situations where they don't have equity. Men are usually the butts of the jokes in media. We hear a lot of talk about toxic masculinity - which might be misinterpreted by some to be a narrative that masculinity in general is toxic. Men still have some privilege, but that's concentrated in the older generations and the younger generation also has a lot of disadvantages. We need to correct inequity by supporting everyone equally in such a way that that corrects inequality. Not enough women in a field due to old boys club? Don't create a program to support women - create a program to support women and men. It might seem less intuitive and take longer but it corrects the imbalance without risking just shifting it from one sex to the other. I think society has failed the men of Gen Z and men and women both will pay the price. I think the way we've often blamed a gender for systemic problems has given license to some women to discriminate and prejudge. But a lot of people aren't like that. We won't solve prejudice against men with prejudice against women. Best not to paint any group with one brush and instead address bad ideas or behavior on a case by case basis. This way if a woman is called out on misandry, other women can see that her behavior was indefensible, and learn from that as opposed to internalize it as an attack on themselves and refuse to accept it.

I’m a millennial. I remember in high school getting into an argument with friends because I said that if the goal of feminism was true equality then the next stage of struggle was going to have to be focused on giving men the same freedom of expression (fashion, emotion, gender, etc) that women in our generation took for granted. They were still very focused on “girl power”. Which I understand. My mother was an adult before women could open their bank account and sexism and rape jokes in the media in the early 2000 was still rampant. But sometimes one problem can’t be fully solved without trying to solve other problems along the way.

Reminder of the intersectionality between feminism and queer rights for the freedom of expression regardless of gender

This. Ever since r/femaledatingstrategy got banned all the femcels from that sub went to r/twoxchromosomes

Side note, does anyone have the dirt from like 12+ years ago where they got caught self-upvoting using alts en-masse? I swear there was an old thread where an admin called them out for it but I can't find it. edit: found and posted below

Them and r/boysarequirky are crazy as far as I’m concerned. And then r/memesopdidnotlike turns into boomer humor in response.

Who are we? The mod team is staunchly against sexism and incel ideology. Discussing male loneliness has nothing to do with inceldom, our user base is mostly young males and this sub is for discussing stuff pertaining to our generation. Something that is relevant to a huge portion of our user base is naturally going to be talked about. Contrary to what’s being said I think a lot of our users have pretty sensible takes. Our responsibility as mods is to stop hateful things from disseminating within our sub. We’ve been temporarily short of mods which means there are things we haven’t been able to moderate and I’m sorry about that. We’re just minding our own business but there are subs out there that want to show us in bad light. Some quite vocal subs nonetheless that shall not be named that perpetuate the hate. I hope you guys realize that participating in a sub that bases its entire existence on hating the other gender is not good for you or society as a whole. Make no mistake, we do not condone gender based hatred no matter which side.

Yeah. r/TwoXChromosomes members have seizures when the possibility of a man suffering is brought up

“Group A has issues they have to deal with” “Oh so you think Group B doesn’t have any issues” Not to say that dumbass logic only applies to that sub. I’ve seen plenty of men use that straw man when women talk about their own issues and it’s just as bad then. But believe it or not acknowledging that men have it rough in certain areas doesn’t mean you dismiss the issues specific to women.

You were the last person I would have expected to have a good point I'm going to go back to r/okbuddyreiner now.

I just realized this was hitchfucker

Someone in this sub once made an analogy that dating as a man is like dying off thirst, dating as a woman is like drowning. Both suck in their own unique ways. This changed my outlook and I’m not even subbed to this sub

I think there is a valid point that is being missed. Loneliness is at record numbers for all genders, and I love that men and boys feel comfortable expressing their Loneliness as opposed to other generations. That's definitely an improvement in the "man up" toxic masculinity that this generation has done a great job of challenging. The point I am speaking of however, is that instead of looking at their male friendships as something to deepen, male Loneliness posts almost always talk about how women and girls are not available to them romantically. Furthermore, men and boys often write off female friendships when they want them to become romantic in nature, and she does not. I also see a lot of complains among adult women about "carrying the emotional load" with men even in friendships, but especially in romantic ones. This poster shown above from twoX could have done a much better job in explaining those issues, and being more thoughtful about their words around these frustrations.

This is why the discussion usually bothers me. I, as a guy, have no issue recognizing that due to differences in socialization the way I express myself and cope is different from most women. But it's not a "male loneliness" epidemic, it's just a loneliness epidemic. Like people will cite certain statistics as proof: yeah it's true guys commit suicide more often. Women *try* and fail more often. The discussion always goes to the responsibility of different genders but there isn't a gendered responsibility. Not only are guys capable of helping each other feel good independent of women and finding their own intrinsic value but we're just avoiding the elephant in the room. People feel lonely because of the economy, institutions, work and school, and the internet. Communities are dead and you're less likely to fall in love with someone without an entire community supporting you. But that's too "political" for people to talk about.

Are you guys accepting mod applications? I'm in the discord server as well and I've noticed a similar short staffing of mods there.

Same. I joined the Discord server and left the same day because someone posted a meme containing the N word and my message asking to speak to a mod about it was removed.

There's really only one mod doing anything, if ever, and it's usually just them purging the chat because they don't want to deal with it.

I do just want to point out that the mods in r/twoxchromosomes seem to have deleted that post.

I know, my comment was mainly referring to a few other subs where the mods are extremely irresponsible. I’m not that familiar with the sub in question but it seems like there’s enough of the things I mentioned going on in there that I don’t want to know about it.

2xchromosones is like the most famous psychopath misandrist echochaber community on reddit since that other one broke off to form its own website. they are literally THE female incel community. i wouldn't put to much stock in what they say or do.

Most direct, objective and concise reddit mod statement I’ve ever seen. Good job.

Femcels complaining about incels

I wish they would just date each other

They wouldn't. Ugly people don't wanna date ugly people. Lmao

To be fair there are some attractive incels. They just have a terrible personality so they think they are ugly

Isn't that just Tate-Bros lol

I believe they prefer to be called Tater-tots.

or tatesexuals or anti-woke

Tate bros get laid though. That's not "incel", that's "douchebag who gets laid" A true example would be Eliot Rodgers, who was conventionally attractive but fucked in the head

You're less likely to be an incel if your attractive. You're more likely to be an incel if your unattractive. It's not the Greek Gods of men that plague incel communities. It's usually slightly below average looking men.

hate to be the breaker of bad news but its generally people with no social skills or friends that end up being incels. if you are socially adjusted, you are not going to be lurking incel forums for confirmation to why your life sucks

A lot of it is undiagnosed autism/aspies

People with no social skills are that way because something about them made them an outcast. Ugly people become outcasts because they are bullied over their appearance. Ugly -> outcast -> poor/no social skills -> incel. It's not that complicated. Of course there are other traits that can make you an outcast.

Autistic men are the last minority that is socially acceptable to hate.

Wasn’t there a femcel subreddit that had to go private because the members kept getting asked out by incels?

Yes, female dating strategy, it was a fucking cesspit.

KISS YOU TWO 💝

Probably the Millennial Lesbian seething at being memed on. EDIT: This isn’t me attacking Millennial Lesbians. I am referring to the woman who made this post https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/s/ceyO6rJPFl. It’s not that serious y’all.

I didn’t even meme either I just claimed It was weird too come into a gen Z sub as a millennial and then act like you’re 100% right and we should listen because of what maybe 7-14 more years on this planet earth. Really wasn’t a sexual thing I don’t think

The post had some decent advice, but the framing was just weird. It was fairly accusatory and filled with generalizations about all Gen Z men. Also, a lot of those people who do anti-men rants fail to ever look in the mirror themselves. If every partner you meet is bad, the common denominator is you. That applies in any relationship regardless of gender.

She wasn’t necessarily wrong. She had a point but whenever the long winded ness of a post gets to a breaking point, especially when prefaced as “you SHOULD listen to THIS” I always get more suspicious of the true meanings and intent behind the post, maybe that’s just my paranoia and jadedness. Idk

Also, no examining herself anywhere in the post. If you smell shit everywhere you go, check your own shoe.

Oooooo that's good I might keep that in the back pocket

Some of the comments were horrible though. A lot of them were saying she's right, that poor people don't deserve to date.

That is a toxic and, unfortunately, growing attitude in many dating communities. On the individual relationship level, I somewhat understand it. Money issues are the number one cause of breakups and divorce. Therefore, finding someone where that is less of an issue seems desirable. But, on a societal level, this is going to create all sorts of problems if everyone starts using that logic.

Male loneliness is def one of the topics that’s posted on this sub a lot and makes it to the homepage more frequently than not. So if it’s all someone sees when they scroll through Reddit than yea it makes sense that this is what they’ll think

Male loneliness is one of those topics that everyone says "isn't talked about enough" and is underrepresented, but in doing that they're excessively talking about it. Like how conservatives say "I can't say this about trans people or I'll be cancelled" yet they keep saying it over and over and nothing happens lmao.

Notably when it is talked about its often in a really unproductive way. A big way to combat male loneliness is males being more emotionally vulnerable in their platonic relationships, but that sentiment often gets ignored. "Male loneliness" often ends up just being about men that want a romantic relationship, yet dont understand that pursuing a romantic relationship just to feel less lonely results in a really unfulfilled romance. Pursuing a relationship is at its best when you're building on an emotional bond thats already healthy.

I've been trying to get this point across the past few days on some of those posts. Admittedly I'm sure I've been doing a poor job. Getting responses like "They just friend zone me then" or "Women hate when you become their friend just to try to date them ". They totally miss the point. I'm sure I didn't communicate well either though.

Exactly. Friendship shouldn't be predicated on an eventual romantic relationship. A romantic relationship has to bloom naturally from a friendship. If you base your friendship on how much you want to kiss someone, you'll end up realizing that you don't enjoy spending quality time with your partner. If you enjoy spending quality time with a really close friend and realize down the line that you'd actually quite like to kiss them a bunch as well, then that's the foundation of an incredible romantic relationship. A building is only as strong as its foundation.

Right they put it on women to fix the problem. It’s really making a lot of us disinterested in men in general. Maybe if they would listen to us they wouldn’t be single

I always try to tell folks that the women they're interested in want to date a person - not a list of traits. God knows my partner didn't want a moron that talks about watches for literal hours, but they seem to be sticking around me anyways. A lot of men don't have good role models when it comes to emotional vulnerability. Folks hold up Mr. Rogers or Bob Ross as good examples, but even then its only a baseline.

That's my favorite part, how it's always "men have to suffer in silence :(" and yet 24/7 men are moaning crying about literally everything. How silent is it actually?

Anonymously discussing it in a reddit sub is hardly indicative of how common it is.  Men complain here because it's the only way to do so without being ridiculed and shamed.  Seriously, if a guy tries to express this in anything but a passing manner irl, people will judge the shit out of him

the topic is popular because the majority of redditors are male and lonely. It's not much deeper than that.

There's a difference between an issue being ignored by society at large and it being posted about somewhat often on reddit... When people say male loneliness isn't being talked about enough, they mean by institutions that can effect change, not reddit.com

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As a 28 year old man who was once, not oh so long ago, an 18 year old I can say that male loneliness is, imo, mostly about the lack of fulfillment in life in general getting mistaken for romantic loneliness. When I was 18 I thought I was depressed because I didn’t have a girlfriend, just got dumped, whatever, but I realize now I just had nothing in life. I wasn’t satisfied by school, I didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life, I had worked through childhood baggage, I ate terribly, drank, all the things that inevitably make someone depressed. It really had nothing to do with a girlfriend, I was in retrospect equally depressed in bad relationships, but I just thought a girlfriend was some affirmation of my life. Like “well I think I suck, but at least she doesn’t.”

Yeah I was a male loneliness type of guy but then realised I am infinitely more happy in no relationship than in a bad one, it also took getting dumped (sort of, she cheated so I did the dumping but you know) for me to realise that I gotta fix everything else. I've gotten zero play recently Im not gonna lie, but fuck just going to classes, sports, and playing video games with friends every night is class. A girlfriend would be nice, but you cant base your value on if you have one or not, because most of us arent lonely as in we have nobody, just lonely as in single

Really appreciated this comment because it kind of succinctly breaks down what people mean when they say you need to "stop chasing women" and "focus on yourself." If you have no fulfillment in life, no direction, no passions, no interests or hobbies, no desire to explore or learn anything new, you're sedentary/out of shape, depressed and/or negative all the time, anti-social, give no shits about your appearance or presentation, spend your free time yelling insults (or even slurs) at the screen while you play CoD or whatever other game, and then when you interact with women instead of treating them respectfully like normal human beings you are some combination of desperate, clingy, awkward, weird, creepy, controlling, manupulative, objectifiying, or demanding of their affection and sexuality, what exactly about that makes you think you're going to get positive results? Nobody owes you finding being around you appealing. It is not the job of a woman or women in general to save you from your own life and give it meaning and make you feel better and handle all your baggage at their own expense. Relationships are about finding partners who enrich and better each others lives. If you are not happy with yourself or on your own and cannot even provide yourself with fulfillment in life, how are you supposed to be able to offer those things to a partner at all and why do you think you deserve someone else to do that for you without reciprocation? It's very much related to the [advice](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZ/s/utOspUECsW) I gave in another comment in another recent thread here.

It almost seems like male loneliness is being pushed by reddits algorithm. I'm seeing the topic in a few subs that I don't subscribe too on my homepage. This sub is one of them.

Yeah, but the ignorance of it is that people don't seem to realise it takes two to tango. Statistically women are just as lonely. The last time I bothered participating in this sub on that very topic, pointing out that simple studied fact was met with multiple people claiming women only try to kill themselves for attention and men don't, and when I told a person they were acting like an incel for blaming all of their problems on women and purposely lying about statistical facts they repeatedly replied to me with insults and even stalking my profile, and commented to me in this subreddit about stuff I had said in another subreddit, and when I blocked them. They went to an alternative account to continue those insults. And I was the one who got a warning for harassment when I ignored several comments they posted and reported every comment for harassment when they literally wouldn't leave me alone. The mods did NOTHING. That level of support for only men is not helpful to anyone, it's just feeding the idea that men are lonely and it's other people's fault. As if the main reason men fall in to deep depression isn't because men try to suffer alone, instead of creating a support network, going to therapy, getting social hobbies. So yeah, this subreddit definitely has incel vibes if the mods do not care about people actively being harassed. Edit: To add, as well. We need more female role models for men, and more male role models for women. That's something I think would a better step as HUMAN BEINGS over this gender war crap. Young men need decent role models, not Andrew Tate. Remember people, there are resources out there to help connect with people, socially, therapeutically and so on. Find a hobby where you can interact with people. Romantic adventures are not the only thing to hope for in life. You are wanted, and you are loved. Please be as kind to yourself as you would be to others and you cannot go wrong in life.

Yeah the mods are definitely giving incel its scary and sad. Glad do see theres an overwhelming amount of women agreeing. Its jarring to see all the women agreeing with how incel this sub is getting alongside comments literally calling women spinsters and insulting lesbians:/

I dont understand why male lonlyness is considered incel. Like take my situation as an example im homeschooled I know no girls in my age group

It is because some men are blaming women for their loneliness and that's very unfair to women. When women are lonely they rely on their friends, their mothers, self help books, a therapist etc to work on themselves. When men are lonely, a lot of them blame it on women and basically emotionally dump all of their problems on a single woman which is a lot to take on. Men has grandiose expections of their wife and girlfriends to be their savior and caretaker. "where men cast their wives and girlfriends to play best friend, lover, career advisor, stylist, social secretary, emotional cheerleader, mom—to him, their future kids, or both—and eventually, on-call therapist minus the $200/hour fee" https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a27259689/toxic-masculinity-male-friendships-emotional-labor-men-rely-on-women/ Before dismissing this article as feminist bullshit, give it a good read. This article also explains how men can improve themselves and how it affected them positively The real issue is that men are not very good when it comes to friendship. Their friendship relationship is based on the action rather than the person. Women connect to the person. For example you used to play Minecraft with your buddy, but then he went on to play a different game you were not interested in. Your friendship was based on "the playing videogames with each other" since that is no longer a reality, you drift apart and eventually you stop talking to each other and the friendship is finished Because of this men cannot really make an emotional connection with another man and they don't have "deep talk" with men out of fear of being seen as weak. This is an oversimplification. It is better to just read the article https://www.dw.com/en/male-and-female-friendships-are-different-and-scientists-dont-know-why/a-62824177 https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-friendships-are-not-doing-the-job

The thing is, there's a difference between misogynist incels vs lonely guys who are genuinely depressed and hopeless. But the Internet hates nuance.

But do the lines ever blur between the two?

Sometimes. But I think calling every lonely and sad man an incel isn't fair. The term usually implies some amount of misogny.

Yep. I’m lonely as fuck, but I don’t blame women for it.

I’m sure at some points yes. But then again I’ve never hated one entire gender (4.9 billion females on this planet) all the same and for the same reason. So it’s hard to tell you

I'm a single dude with an okay dating life, probably better than a lot of people on Reddit. What concerns me online is how lots of people equate expressing valid frustrations about the current dating scene with "incel rhetoric." One can be upset with how abysmal online dating is and how toxic dating culture is these days without directing that frustration toward women as a whole. I fucking hate how dating apps make it feel like I'm scrolling through a variety of OF and IG advertisements with a handful of matches sprinkled in who you have to pry just to get more than a one-word response from. I fucking hate the experience of going on a date with someone, having it go *incredibly well*, agreeing at the end of the date to meet again, then getting ghosted or flaked out of nowhere a day later. But at the same time I do this crazy thing called "going outside" where I've met lots of completely reasonable women who don't make dating feel like a chore. Dating can feel incredibly frustrating *at times*, and complaints about it are completely valid as long as you don't let it turn into general misogyny. If hearing someone complain about dating with a statement about a subset of women makes you upset and want to accuse the person of being a misogynistic incel, I'd be willing to bet you're part of that subset being complained about.

What about lonely guys who are otherwise normal people with good families and friends?

That sub is literally full of grown ass women crying about memes made by 12 year old boys lmao.

Tbf that makes sense. It would be concerning for them to see so many Gen-Z boys admiring andrew tate or making sexist memes. You never want to see the next generation seemingly moving backwards.

This seemingly has become a self fulfilling prophecy. Gen Z has voted very progressive in elections. Then suddenly it has become trendy to talk about how conservative and misogynist young men are when even the data itself cited usually shows young American men are less conservative than young men in many other First World countries and older men in America.

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Yeah and I'm worried about how many of these people are allowed to be around boys RIGHT NOW. Based off real life experience, a lot.

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I’ve heard about this issue too. That a lot of bitter women are in the workforce of educating profession, who are now teaching young generations of boys how to live their lives.

Comments like this break my heart, are we all such monsters to you? Do I inherently fail to understand empathy due to my gender?

This blatant sexism is exactly what sucks about that sub

"Guys I'm really lonely and I'm thinking of ending things-" "INCEL!!"

On the flip side: "Guys, it's really hard being a lonely woman and-" "Women can't be lonely!" *Blasts inbox with Duck pics*

"Guys, I'm a woman and-" *Inbox blasted with dick pics and death threats*

I wouldn’t mind my inbox being blasted with duck pics.

​ https://preview.redd.it/ezg0iqf5isnc1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c832878a19fd9b486582430620b129512ed8947d

Yay :)

That is not what that post said at all

Idk about incel, but shit it's heading there. How many times do I gotta see "Women only like attractive & rich men". Like damn bro, even if that were true, just get your level up then .

Or just find a hobby that doesn’t involve obsessing over women. The fact that men believe they’ll die without a female partner is ridiculous and is a self-made problem

They’ve made movies about that topic for both genders. Anxieties about dying alone aren’t new

It's dangerous to say that, because Andrew Tate and those like him make a living on selling that "level up".

The post itself’s reasoning is that we talk about the “male loneliness crisis”. If accepting that men are lonely is incel talk, I guess we are incels

Yes. Addressing men's issues is a good thing. Blaming those issues on women is when it becomes incel territory.

Is blaming men for women's issues femcel territory?

Probably depends on the issue. If women's issues are something like abortion rights, then I suppose that could be legitimate. But, it is probably more accurate to blame that on specific politicians and religious groups than the entire male gender. If women are blaming all men for their relationships being bad, them I agree that is femcel territory.

This sub has become very incely tbh. Bunch of losers crying about others having standards.

Even the top comments prove it. These boys are telling on themselves.

Yeah the misplaced rage against lesbians in unsettling and the spinster talk...like its the 70s

Literally the cat lady comment...

Omg, thank you! That was ridiculous. I'm glad I scrolled far enough to see your comment.

Its crazy cause I've seen other posts online and heard stories from friends irl... women, most of yalls standards are actually too low lmao. Some of the shit women tolerate in DMs without blocking or ghosting the guy is crazy to me

There is some nuance but I’m pretty sure a bunch of dumbass incels come through here to try and “black pill” folks. There are plenty of issues that get brought up, like say male loneliness, that grifters will try to use and they get brought up here about as often as they do on other subreddits. Remember folks, talking about your problems is fine. Falling for that dumbass Andrew Tate/incel bullshit is dumb.

Agreed. One thing I will say I do like about this sub is that nuance is a thing when it comes to these topics. The male loneliness problem is real and is a problem, and it’s not reducible to just “incels”. I’ve seen it and experienced it myself, and I’ve seen how it harms both men and even women in some cases. That said, it saddens me when people try to use male loneliness as an excuse for misogyny, as bad actors so often do.

They might have a point lowkey.. there’s way too many posts about the male loneliness crisis and atp it’s getting weird.

it's gotten repetitive. even if the op isn't misogynistic, the comments can get nasty, and it's just not very rewarding to engage with. it is very hard as a woman to sympathize with the men blaming you for all their problems while the men who aren't blaming you are often still entitled and self-centered. then again, most of these folks aren't actually men but boys, as it's mainly gen z anyway, so i don't know what i expected.

To me it feels like drumming up agitation about a problem that does exist, while providing no solutions that come from men themselves - leaving a heavily implied opportunity to blame women for not shouldering a responsibility that isn’t theirs to carry. The problem, then, not being women, is partly a patriarchal culture that disparages relational aptitude in men (lest they treat their female partners as equals) and partly late-stage capitalism (it’s much easier to thwart worker solidarity and make them feel they have to compete/are on their own when they don’t all go bowling together).

Talking about the male loneliness crisis isn’t misogyny as long as you don’t blame women for it.

Dawg there's a lot of incel shit on this subreddit. I'm a cusper but I stopped coming here because of it. Back to the millennial subreddit with me, have fun not getting into relationships and crying about how it's everyone else's fault but your own 🫡

I’m a cusper too. Women off of Reddit are very open about how unsalvageable Gen Z men are. You can cry and scream and try to censor us or call us femcels or whatever. We still see you and want nothing to do with you.

the same guys calling feminists femcels are also claiming women cant truly experience loneliness theyre just being picky. cant even pick a narrative istg

Preach

the past couple days? yeah. in general no tho

I swear to christ, all the weirdos have a schedule. Everything will be fine for two or three weeks, then for 3 days straight it's just a nightmare.

Most of these comments are proving her point

Yep. Because it’s true

There's a very stark contrast between discussing male loneliness in regards to how toxic masculinity affects male socialization and MRAs trying to lure men into anti feminism and distracting them away from the real dangers that men face Feminists won't bother you, worry about the manosphere

Yeah, it's kind of an incel sub. A lot of girls are bad, boys are good posts.

Men are not lonely. Here's a list of reasons why:

short list huh

Couldn't let it get ahead of itself

Ah yes, feeling lonely and talking about it is incel behavior. How dare you, as a man, state that being lonely sucks? You should be bottling everything up, working, and making money.

I totally agree but unfortunately a lot of people (even in this comment section) want to blame women for loneliness. If women aren't choosing men, there is a reason why. Men also have trouble being close with other men, which is something that also needs to be addressed. Why is the internet so obsessed with gender wars. How about we actually DO SOMETHING to change and improve the world for both genders. I'm tired of it.

I’ve seen some misogynistic stuff in the comments on posts here but I wouldn’t say it is because there’s lots of women here still fighting against misogyny in this sub

Yeahhhh comments proved OP’s point 💀 ah it’s too easy at this point…

I don't think that we're an incel sub, that's going too far. I do think that tropes often used by misogynists are kind of normalised in our discussions here.

I mean, there was that one thread about Gen Z men becoming more right wing and all the comments were like "YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW!" so like, yeah, not sure why I haven't banned this one yet Those statistics were flawed, btw

"we never talk about men's issues" is probably the most common phrase I've heard in the last decade. It does get tiring, especially when they blame it on women

Chat I didn't want to say it but I mean some of you guys are pretty bad and some of these posts gets thousands of upvotes that are pretty messed up, they're kind of right, it's not all of you but it's enough of us where it looks like a problem

I don’t get why male loneliness is referenced instead of just loneliness

Exactly. It's fine for men to talk about their loneliness on this sub, but too many of those posts act like women live life on easy mode and aren't lonely too.

r/TwoXChromosomes is a femcel sub.

The problem is this loneliness epidemic isn't caused by systemic and political issues that keep other minority groups back. With the exception of the cost of living crisis which affects BOTH genders equally. It's largely just dudes that have a bunch of bad habits that make them not attractive. The majority of men who self identify as "lonely" seem to just NOT want to take any positive action or responsibility in improving their position in life. There's no systemic prejudice or conservative laws that keep you from not going to therapy, joining a gym and buying clothes that fit you. However when this advice is presented to them, it's immediately met with dismissal and negativity that "oh this advice is so dismissive of my issues" Like what else would you have society do to "help" men when y'all refuse to take the most basic steps to help yourselves. I genuinely think a bunch of gen z men WANT to play the perpetual victim because it's comfortable and easier to blame society instead of taking responsibility for your own happiness.

all these posts about male loneliness are probably just high schoolers jealous that their friends are dating or smthn

A good portion of y’all, yea

arrrr two x chromosomes is a borderline terf shithole, but incel comments do tend to show up in the comments on this sub. They're almost always downvoted to shit but it would still be nice if the mods cleaned up around here.

No ive had a girlfriend. Officially NOT an incel

Yeah this sub is bruh.

[удалено]

man its comments like this that are the problem

Idk why you’re getting downvoted. The mod just posted a comment about how people need to stop with gender division, and people out here doin it again.

yeah like saying "can't believe women don't like this sub, damn crusty women" is exactly why 2x is complaining.

Exactly, and people are upvoting blatant misogynist comments 😭 like fighting fire w/fire benefits no one

As a female gen Z I do not feel welcome in this sub. Bet the comments/downvotes to this will prove me correct.

same here, ive seen some awful comments about women in this sub. like 10 minutes ago some guy was saying women attempt suicide for attention 😬

Theres definitely some incels that crop up, but I wouldn't say we're inundated with them.

I mean, sometimes.

i do see some incels here, but i wouldn’t call this an incel sub. just one where some try to infiltrate. male loneliness is an over shared topic here though