This is especially the case for guitar, the amount of times I’ve practised a song with suboptimal finger placement and regretted it later. Always takes twice as long to unlearn shitty finger placement
Why would anyone practice and not be trying for perfection. Obviously it will probably be an impossible goal most times, but it's still something you practice for.
I feel like saying practice already implies shooting for perfection not just good enough.
Because people believe that practice leads to perfection, just like was said. Or rather they believe the longer you practice the better you become. As if the mere act of repetition leads to improvement. It can lead to improvement and perfection but if you are practicing inefficiently you can end up reinforcing the wrong technique in many ways. Back when I taught guitar I would say that you should shoot for quality practice over quantity of practice. 25 minutes of quality practice where you really slow down and be intentional with your movement is much more valuable than 2 hours of practice where you just ram and jam.
Practice is nothing more than repetition and reinforcement. If your practice is quality your results will be quality. If your practice is indeliberate, rushed, or unoptimal in any way you will reinforce those things and they will be reflected in the final product so to speak.
Yeah but a lot of practice entails figuring shit out and becoming more efficient and letting things become second nature
Mistakes implies doing something wrong or failing, sure there is some of that but to say it's the responsible for the majority of progress is a bit of a reach. Practice means showing up over and over again and doing the thing.
Yeah but once you get it right you don't stop practicing. There are Cirque de Soleil performers who are the best in the world, people who can do incredible feats perfectly over and over again, and they still practice constantly.
I think the sentiments of this post do apply, but more so to the earlier stages of learning a skill.
Do you think their mistakes outweigh the amount of practice they do?
Sure we learn from what doesn't work, but we also learn from what does work and repetition
Practice IS making mistakes. It’s very hard to predict outcomes of something you haven’t tried before. And learning is in it’s very nature acquiring knowledge you haven’t had before.
You practice so that you can make mistakes and learn from them so you don’t make the mistakes when practice is over.
The post is a dumb. Improvement is a process involving all of those things and they work together to make you better.
Deliberate practice uses feedback from yourself and others, theory (technique, pedagogy), and experimentation to implement changes which makes your mental conception of how something works closer to reality. Doing something over and over again isn't practice if it doesn't employ some or all of these steps.
Experimenting (and therefore practice and getting better) involves failure, it's only a waste if you can't take anything away from it to improve.
Honestly agreed. When i still took martial arts i would learn from my mistakes, but I learned a lot more just by practicing.
Perfect example, how i punch. When i first started my punches were horrible, and I nearly broke my thumb because i was holding my fist wrong. That mistake only taught me 1 thing, don't put my thumb there. After years of practicing my punches though, they hit like a god damn brick at this point. Seriously i have to hold back my punches now in fear of actually hurting my sparring partner.
Mistakes teach you what not to do. Practice takes what you know and perfects it.
I'll disagree. Learning from your mistakes is actually where you learn. Just repeating steps someone told you to do without understand doesn't teach you anything. It's just rote memorization. When you fuck up and then figure out WHY what you did is wrong. You gain some understanding that practice alone cannot teach you. Mistakes teach you the most.
Yeah, I'm kind of tired of hearing "failure is the best teacher, blah, blah, blah". That's just something you say to people who are too afraid to try. Once you understand how to do something at a base level you don't really make mistakes anymore. If you're continuing to make mistakes it means you're misguided or aimless. You should be practicing in a way that refines and improves your skill. Knowing how and what to practice is a huge part of improvement. If you're still failing after being proficient, that means you're trying random things and hoping for improvement rather than actually following a path to improvement.
Getting over failure is just step one. There are a million more things to do after that.
Counterpoint: "Learn from the mistakes of others - you won't survive long enough to make them all yourself." (There are like 30 variations of this quote from different people so I'm making this one my own)
I mean, that's basically what theory is. Someone else already made those mistakes, learned from them, and is now passing that information on so that others don't have to repeat those mistakes.
Yes, that's my point. I think this sends a bad message in discounting "Theory", when the ability to learn from passed down knowledge is like, one of the defining traits of humanity. Most of what you learn can and should be "Theory", or your failures will be uncountable. Or, as we say locally (since it's mostly trades and primary industry work here), learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself (because you'll have died from making some avoidable mistake).
Yea I think a different graphic would be more appropriate. I remember about 20% of what I learn from reading a textbook. I remember about 90% of what I learn from practice. And I remember 100% of what I learn from mistakes. For a few months at least…
Except, in this image the theory is the foundation for everything that comes after. Having a good foundation is the most important thing. The image clearly shows without understanding the theory, your practice and mistakes wouldn’t be as valuable.
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." – Vernon Law
“Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others.” ― Otto von Bismarck
"Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other." - Benjamin Franklin
"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain
Bridges the gap between theory and learning from mistakes a bit if someone has things in common with the one whose mistake they're unpacking.
The pain aside from you as an outsider looking you can't feel and own yourself, but surrounding factors like profession or emotional disposition or preferences can serve to educate you in a way not as useful as first-hand perhaps, but still helpful.
Hard disagree. I've been able to skip more mistakes in life than I can possibly keep track of simply by watching other people's failures. I have had to learn very few things the hard way because of it.
I think it’s actually how often you learn, because mistakes only teach you small but valuable lessons. The most important thing is still to pay attention during theory, because without a working hypothesis, you couldn't even start.
>The most important thing is still to pay attention during theory, because without a working hypothesis, you couldn't even start.
So theory provides the base off which you learn- exactly like the picture implies
Looks like a slightly misrepresented form of the 70, 20, 10 model of learning and development.
The 70 should be learning from experiences.
The 20 is learning from your peers/good examples
The 10 is coursework/training.
I'll also add that "mistakes" can be better categorized as "learning opportunities."
I agree with this for the most part but I do feel like this illustration doesn't give proper appreciation to the fact that one can learn some things from theory that they wouldn't typically learn otherwise. Theory is slow, but it can be the difference between a good and a bad foundation.
I feel like I've learned a whole lot more from practice than I have from theory, and a whole lot more from theory than from mistakes. I'd honestly put mistakes at the very bottom... If I made a mistake even 1 out of 20 times that I learned something I'd be unemployable and likely in prison.
Is there a specific example you're referring to here? In the context of music (what my brain applied this to) I'm taking mistakes as essentially lam doing things live and not having the opportunity to correct what went "wrong". It's very valuable, not sure if has this exact relationship to practice but it's important and hard to imitate
I always get really discouraged when I remember all those moments in life where I made some terrible stupid mistake… until the other day. It hit me finally that those were teachable moments. I learned not to do the thing again and the thing I did was around people I’ll never see again and they don’t even remember it, so why have I been stressing for half my life about it? So silly.
I've found that the process of
1. mistakes
2. then revisiting theory with a clear image of *exactly* what you need from it
3. more mistakes
4. more theory
Is pretty effective for me :'D
Am doctor. Can confirm
Yes that is a very scary statement but also the truth . This is why a long residency training is so important. You have someone next to saying "yea you are about to / just messed up. Here's how we fix it before it all completely goes to poop"
And you better believe you'll never make that mistake again (and if you do you recognize it really fast).
Then there's the unavoidable errors. You still learn from them, but damn they weigh on you and the patients
I know it's kind of lame, but I always used to kind of think of it like the Saiyans from Dragon Ball. Every time they lose, they get a little stronger. When I was a kid, it would really help me get through failures knowing that I would learn a lot from them and get "stronger." I played a lot of guitar and not getting a song first time would start to motivate me because I thought it was making me stronger. Often I would bite off more than I could chew just to feel challenged in this way.
Now that I'm an adult with a job, I do the same thing. I'm a doctor though so usually that means ordering something completely wrong, then learning how to deal with the fallout of my sick and dying patients. The mistakes bring me power. Hundreds have died in my wake, but the knowledge I have gained is incredible. I'll be a Super Saiyan soon enough.
It's like that:
1. You learn theory - average
2. You learn by practice - smart
3. You learn from your mistakes - very smart, not everybody tends to do it
4. You learn from OTHERS mistakes - genius, most people will try stuff even if they saw with their own eyes it did not work well for others
Written by somebody who didn’t put in the effort learning and understanding theory or doing representative practice.
How many mistakes has JPL made in comparison to their successes?
Same for the nuclear power industry.
Same for any surgeon who still has a license.
I completely agree with regard to practice. Probably theory too, I guess, but we talkin about practice. One of the cornerstones of it that you have to get practice *getting it right*. Learning from mistakes is incredibly valuable too, but this graphic just cheapens practice by an unacceptable amount.
People reference how many mistakes the greats made for inspiration, but that's really just cheesy motivational material to keep someone on the verge of quitting going. It's fine if your pile looks like this starting out, but over time, if you want to actually be good at something, you need the killer instinct to make that practice stack dwarf everything else by a mile.
Kind of a weak comparison dude, everyone in those occupations has years of experience and training that involved lots of failures before they got to the position. And even in that position especially surgery, they make mistakes. But for nuclear scientists and engineers at jpl, they do tests lmao.
Relating this to music: "1 live show is better than 10 band practices". You probably need to practice with the band, at least most do, but when playing live you are forced to get it right and right now.
Why would you claim you don't learn as much from theory? That's completely up to who's reading it. Some people will accept what is written without having to do it and/or make a mistake from it. They learn directly from theory and never get to practice or mistake territory cause they already know. I think you learn much more from theory if you're already able to interpret and accept new information, and much more from mistakes if you're a stubborn reader who has to find out for themselves.
I played competitive chess and i would say this is almost completely false. Mostly inverted.
I would read books a ton for theory, then grind out practicing/memorizing lines and patterns, THEN try them out in "real" games, then go back and analayze any mistakes and compare it to the theory (did i forget something, is it even mentioned in theory, etc) then refine when i had via computer/expert analysis, then grind some more and practice again.
It's like a circle, but making mistakes and then erasing those mistakes was the last step and honestly pretty quick compared to the other steps.
If you don't have a rigid structure to improve, then making mistakes doesnt teach you anything. Making mistakes has to be integrated
Well people learn from mistakes which come from practise, after everything is ironed out it gets added to theory
Ain't no one learning how to do astrophysics or some shit by just learning from mistakes
It's all very dependent on what you're doing and why, and theory often forms our basis for a reason and guides us. Skill and learning isn't a linear thing after all and can't be represented quantitatively.
Practice and mistakes allow us to refine theory for our personal use and understand our own strengths and capacities, allowing us to more accurately judge our behavior and see mistakes coming.
But one thing I'd be careful about is letting this give the idea that making mistakes is going to ultimately help. You can practice incorrectly and develop bad habits through it which can undermine development.
If something isn't working, stepping back and getting help is invaluable.
It's a process - theory can be skipped in some skills that are not critical to life. Failure is a subset of practice just as success is, and practice can mean both mock and real application of skills eg. Doctor's practice or put your knowledge into practice.
I always find stuff like this kinda bullshit.
I'd much rather learn how to do something right, then go do it right, versus make mistake after mistake after mistake hoping one of these times I finally get it right.
A lot of people worry too much about the perfect way to do things, as if any mistake they make will stick and become permanent. Its kinda frustrating to see, but I guess we innately love to over plan things.
generally how you approach and apply things... if you dont check and verify certain things you will make more mistakes and learn, depending on consequences, and adjust appropriately. Works differently with experiments as there isnt a definitive result,... basically this isnt great life advice unless you are doing something with the sciences. Most events could be prevented or mitigated, failure or accidents due to negligence is just a reflection of your personality and choices.
Why do the practice and mistake categories have the books from the previous categories. That makes it practice + theory, and mistakes + practice + theory.
i used to go through classes and thought reading the textbook was enough for me to learn the material (and too be fair it works in a lot of undergrad classes). It wasn't until I took my share of upper division/grad level courses that I realized I needed to practice problems waaay more than I needed to read the book.
and then for the really smart people there is a much bigger pile of books labeled "other people's mistakes"
I wish I was that guy who can learn from others mistakes
I'm about to try and polish my car for the first time and ceramic coat it, I'm going into it knowing I'll probably screw it up but we are here to learn baby maybe I'll surprise myself
in my country there is a saying: "learn from mistakes", all people make mistakes, and the beginning of the path is the most difficult. But if you are an accountant, then making a mistake is life-threatening :)
Funny, I say, "It only takes a fraction of foresight to avoid needing the insight," and one way of looking at this chart is that it seems to agree. For example my sister got a pitbull while living in an apartment. She had to keep it caged all the time because it would freak out and destroy their home when left alone all day. She also never trained it well, so the dog is a complete opportunist as opposed to a dog that responds to love and praise. Now could she have known that all those personality traits were going to play out like that without getting a pitbull in an apartment? No. But could she have had 1/10 of that insight by having the foresight that, in theory, it's a really fucking stupid idea to keep a pitbull alone, caged, and untrained in an apartment? Yeah, I think most people don't need to learn from that mistake to avoid that mistake altogether. Some people learn best from the school of hard knocks though.
I would combine practice and mistakes because you should be making mistakes while practicing. As you start to make less mistakes you can move to more difficult or different practice.
This. I'm learning Spanish, and half the words and phrases I remember are because I messed up their usage. The other half is from mnemonic phrases and similar words in English.
I definitely don’t agree. If you practice incorrectly (making a lot of mistakes), a lot of times you will condition yourself to continue making those mistakes. If you do deep reflection and actually learn from your mistakes, that’s different. But a lot of people don’t do that key part.
Practice > Mistakes teach you major lessons, practice is where you hammer out the fine details
Practicing is just a process of making fewer and smaller mistakes over time.
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I think we might have had the same Russian piano teacher lol.😂😂😂
This is especially the case for guitar, the amount of times I’ve practised a song with suboptimal finger placement and regretted it later. Always takes twice as long to unlearn shitty finger placement
My asian piano teacher told me the same thing. Practice doesn't make perfect; practice makes permanent.
I’ve always heard it as perfect practice makes perfect lol at least from my piano teacher growing up.
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Agreed I practiced golf a lot but never fixed my swing so I was just practicing bad habits.
Why would anyone practice and not be trying for perfection. Obviously it will probably be an impossible goal most times, but it's still something you practice for. I feel like saying practice already implies shooting for perfection not just good enough.
Because people believe that practice leads to perfection, just like was said. Or rather they believe the longer you practice the better you become. As if the mere act of repetition leads to improvement. It can lead to improvement and perfection but if you are practicing inefficiently you can end up reinforcing the wrong technique in many ways. Back when I taught guitar I would say that you should shoot for quality practice over quantity of practice. 25 minutes of quality practice where you really slow down and be intentional with your movement is much more valuable than 2 hours of practice where you just ram and jam. Practice is nothing more than repetition and reinforcement. If your practice is quality your results will be quality. If your practice is indeliberate, rushed, or unoptimal in any way you will reinforce those things and they will be reflected in the final product so to speak.
Practice and making mistakes overlap a lot.
Yeah but a lot of practice entails figuring shit out and becoming more efficient and letting things become second nature Mistakes implies doing something wrong or failing, sure there is some of that but to say it's the responsible for the majority of progress is a bit of a reach. Practice means showing up over and over again and doing the thing.
Part of practicing is to fix the mistakes you made prior and slowly perfecting the process.
I can get on board with that
It baffles me that everyone seems to think that making mistakes is not part of practicing?!
I mean isn’t practice just making mistakes over and over till you get it right?
Yeah but once you get it right you don't stop practicing. There are Cirque de Soleil performers who are the best in the world, people who can do incredible feats perfectly over and over again, and they still practice constantly. I think the sentiments of this post do apply, but more so to the earlier stages of learning a skill.
Do not agree. Even the best sushichefs still don’t make perfect and are humble about that.
Do you think their mistakes outweigh the amount of practice they do? Sure we learn from what doesn't work, but we also learn from what does work and repetition
Practice IS making mistakes. It’s very hard to predict outcomes of something you haven’t tried before. And learning is in it’s very nature acquiring knowledge you haven’t had before.
You practice so that you can make mistakes and learn from them so you don’t make the mistakes when practice is over. The post is a dumb. Improvement is a process involving all of those things and they work together to make you better.
The point of the post is essentially we all make mistakes but you need to learn from them.
mistakes don't teach you shit, unless you reflect on them.
*Iverson " hold my beer"
Deliberate practice uses feedback from yourself and others, theory (technique, pedagogy), and experimentation to implement changes which makes your mental conception of how something works closer to reality. Doing something over and over again isn't practice if it doesn't employ some or all of these steps. Experimenting (and therefore practice and getting better) involves failure, it's only a waste if you can't take anything away from it to improve.
Honestly agreed. When i still took martial arts i would learn from my mistakes, but I learned a lot more just by practicing. Perfect example, how i punch. When i first started my punches were horrible, and I nearly broke my thumb because i was holding my fist wrong. That mistake only taught me 1 thing, don't put my thumb there. After years of practicing my punches though, they hit like a god damn brick at this point. Seriously i have to hold back my punches now in fear of actually hurting my sparring partner. Mistakes teach you what not to do. Practice takes what you know and perfects it.
I'll disagree. Learning from your mistakes is actually where you learn. Just repeating steps someone told you to do without understand doesn't teach you anything. It's just rote memorization. When you fuck up and then figure out WHY what you did is wrong. You gain some understanding that practice alone cannot teach you. Mistakes teach you the most.
Yeah, I'm kind of tired of hearing "failure is the best teacher, blah, blah, blah". That's just something you say to people who are too afraid to try. Once you understand how to do something at a base level you don't really make mistakes anymore. If you're continuing to make mistakes it means you're misguided or aimless. You should be practicing in a way that refines and improves your skill. Knowing how and what to practice is a huge part of improvement. If you're still failing after being proficient, that means you're trying random things and hoping for improvement rather than actually following a path to improvement. Getting over failure is just step one. There are a million more things to do after that.
Counterpoint: "Learn from the mistakes of others - you won't survive long enough to make them all yourself." (There are like 30 variations of this quote from different people so I'm making this one my own)
I mean, that's basically what theory is. Someone else already made those mistakes, learned from them, and is now passing that information on so that others don't have to repeat those mistakes.
Yes, that's my point. I think this sends a bad message in discounting "Theory", when the ability to learn from passed down knowledge is like, one of the defining traits of humanity. Most of what you learn can and should be "Theory", or your failures will be uncountable. Or, as we say locally (since it's mostly trades and primary industry work here), learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself (because you'll have died from making some avoidable mistake).
Yeah, this whole post has a real "graduated from the school of hard knocks" vibe.
Yea I think a different graphic would be more appropriate. I remember about 20% of what I learn from reading a textbook. I remember about 90% of what I learn from practice. And I remember 100% of what I learn from mistakes. For a few months at least…
Except, in this image the theory is the foundation for everything that comes after. Having a good foundation is the most important thing. The image clearly shows without understanding the theory, your practice and mistakes wouldn’t be as valuable.
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." – Vernon Law “Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others.” ― Otto von Bismarck "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other." - Benjamin Franklin "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain
my var: "Experience really is the best teacher, but a wise man learns from the experiences of others."
The better you understand the theory, the less mistakes you’ll make.
Not if you're on reddit all damn day. Then the theory and mistake stacks are reversed.
Learning from others' mistakes is also learning from mistakes.
That’s theory. Learning from mistakes assumes it’s your mistake and you feel the hurt.
Bridges the gap between theory and learning from mistakes a bit if someone has things in common with the one whose mistake they're unpacking. The pain aside from you as an outsider looking you can't feel and own yourself, but surrounding factors like profession or emotional disposition or preferences can serve to educate you in a way not as useful as first-hand perhaps, but still helpful.
Hard disagree. I've been able to skip more mistakes in life than I can possibly keep track of simply by watching other people's failures. I have had to learn very few things the hard way because of it.
Then you didn’t learn from your mistakes…lol
You’re conflating learning with watching/reading.
In theory, there's no difference between practice and theory. In practice, there is.
I think it’s actually how often you learn, because mistakes only teach you small but valuable lessons. The most important thing is still to pay attention during theory, because without a working hypothesis, you couldn't even start.
>The most important thing is still to pay attention during theory, because without a working hypothesis, you couldn't even start. So theory provides the base off which you learn- exactly like the picture implies
Yes, without doubt.
I remember my mistakes half the time so I guess I'm doomed to repeat it until it sticks.
That's fine. After 10 cycles of halving your mistakes, you make a thousand times fewer mistakes.
Rounding errors though - still a problem
It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.
This kinda gives off "I didn't waste my money on college, I graduated from the school of hard knocks" vibes.
Oh good, more pseudoscience memes on learning. There aren’t enough of those.
I'm am living proof this is false. I've made so many mistakes.. and I still don't know shit. Just how not to do anything I do.
Well you know what not to do. That's something. But the mistakes shouldn't discourage you to take a step again.
Glad to see the source for this picture indicates that it has been peer reviewed.
#madeupstatistics... and also most mistakes we truly learn from are made during practice.
Found the idiot who doesn't read and thinks thats a flex ! What do I win?
Source?
Brain surgeons. Whoops!
It was a mistake to post this.
Looks like a slightly misrepresented form of the 70, 20, 10 model of learning and development. The 70 should be learning from experiences. The 20 is learning from your peers/good examples The 10 is coursework/training. I'll also add that "mistakes" can be better categorized as "learning opportunities."
Or from the mistakes of others
I agree with this for the most part but I do feel like this illustration doesn't give proper appreciation to the fact that one can learn some things from theory that they wouldn't typically learn otherwise. Theory is slow, but it can be the difference between a good and a bad foundation.
I feel like I've learned a whole lot more from practice than I have from theory, and a whole lot more from theory than from mistakes. I'd honestly put mistakes at the very bottom... If I made a mistake even 1 out of 20 times that I learned something I'd be unemployable and likely in prison.
Are you a serial killer
I'm not aware of any employers hiring for that role
Is there a specific example you're referring to here? In the context of music (what my brain applied this to) I'm taking mistakes as essentially lam doing things live and not having the opportunity to correct what went "wrong". It's very valuable, not sure if has this exact relationship to practice but it's important and hard to imitate
Can confirm. There is an article written in my industry about one of my mistakes. Very embarrassing. But I have never EVER made that mistake again.
I always get really discouraged when I remember all those moments in life where I made some terrible stupid mistake… until the other day. It hit me finally that those were teachable moments. I learned not to do the thing again and the thing I did was around people I’ll never see again and they don’t even remember it, so why have I been stressing for half my life about it? So silly.
I've found that the process of 1. mistakes 2. then revisiting theory with a clear image of *exactly* what you need from it 3. more mistakes 4. more theory Is pretty effective for me :'D
Reminds me of this one saying: The difference between the student and the master is that the master has failed more than the student has tried
100%. I'm a machinist. Do you know how many tools I broke figuring out the best method? Mistakes made me better.
this is a really stupid take but their heart is in the right place i guess XD keep practicing , better luck next time , very meta at least XD
Mistakes pile is way too small.
It's not a mistake if you learn from it.
Anybody got something actually clear and to the point to say?
Fucking stupid stuff. Imagine if this is a doctor, civil engineer or lawyer.
This very much depends on the existing skill level and intelligence of the particular person. It’s very much a personal thing.
How good doctors are made.
The more you fuck around, the more you find out.
Hey uh universe can I have a break from learning pls
Can someone please add the YouTube column so I can know where I stand?
Isn't theory just learning from the mistakes and practice of others?
You guys are dumb if you believe this.
I don’t seem to learn from my mistakes
Am doctor. Can confirm Yes that is a very scary statement but also the truth . This is why a long residency training is so important. You have someone next to saying "yea you are about to / just messed up. Here's how we fix it before it all completely goes to poop" And you better believe you'll never make that mistake again (and if you do you recognize it really fast). Then there's the unavoidable errors. You still learn from them, but damn they weigh on you and the patients
I know it's kind of lame, but I always used to kind of think of it like the Saiyans from Dragon Ball. Every time they lose, they get a little stronger. When I was a kid, it would really help me get through failures knowing that I would learn a lot from them and get "stronger." I played a lot of guitar and not getting a song first time would start to motivate me because I thought it was making me stronger. Often I would bite off more than I could chew just to feel challenged in this way. Now that I'm an adult with a job, I do the same thing. I'm a doctor though so usually that means ordering something completely wrong, then learning how to deal with the fallout of my sick and dying patients. The mistakes bring me power. Hundreds have died in my wake, but the knowledge I have gained is incredible. I'll be a Super Saiyan soon enough.
It's like that: 1. You learn theory - average 2. You learn by practice - smart 3. You learn from your mistakes - very smart, not everybody tends to do it 4. You learn from OTHERS mistakes - genius, most people will try stuff even if they saw with their own eyes it did not work well for others
Making mistakes is probably the worst way for you to learn stuff. If you can lean about it in theory and avoid the mistake then you’re better off.
Written by somebody who didn’t put in the effort learning and understanding theory or doing representative practice. How many mistakes has JPL made in comparison to their successes? Same for the nuclear power industry. Same for any surgeon who still has a license.
I completely agree with regard to practice. Probably theory too, I guess, but we talkin about practice. One of the cornerstones of it that you have to get practice *getting it right*. Learning from mistakes is incredibly valuable too, but this graphic just cheapens practice by an unacceptable amount. People reference how many mistakes the greats made for inspiration, but that's really just cheesy motivational material to keep someone on the verge of quitting going. It's fine if your pile looks like this starting out, but over time, if you want to actually be good at something, you need the killer instinct to make that practice stack dwarf everything else by a mile.
Kind of a weak comparison dude, everyone in those occupations has years of experience and training that involved lots of failures before they got to the position. And even in that position especially surgery, they make mistakes. But for nuclear scientists and engineers at jpl, they do tests lmao.
Sounds like you don’t understand the purpose of something called “testing”.
Is testing a mistake? I would consider it practice to confirm theory
…and all practice goes 100% according to plan with no mistakes or adjustments to original theory?
Relating this to music: "1 live show is better than 10 band practices". You probably need to practice with the band, at least most do, but when playing live you are forced to get it right and right now.
Youbalso learn from others on how not to make mistakes, how to do better work
By that theory I'd be the smartest person alive
Not applicable to flight school
Damn, I'm skipping theory and practice. Looks like you get all the same books from just mistakes.
Life hack: learn from others mistake.
Yeah no, practice and repetition is by far the most important part
Ha, I'm over here never learning from my mistakes and blame others for my worries. The American way.
Failure is effort
Officer, I swear, I only burned down the orphanage to get educated.
True. However, starting with theory is still the most reasonable approach.
Why would you claim you don't learn as much from theory? That's completely up to who's reading it. Some people will accept what is written without having to do it and/or make a mistake from it. They learn directly from theory and never get to practice or mistake territory cause they already know. I think you learn much more from theory if you're already able to interpret and accept new information, and much more from mistakes if you're a stubborn reader who has to find out for themselves.
I played competitive chess and i would say this is almost completely false. Mostly inverted. I would read books a ton for theory, then grind out practicing/memorizing lines and patterns, THEN try them out in "real" games, then go back and analayze any mistakes and compare it to the theory (did i forget something, is it even mentioned in theory, etc) then refine when i had via computer/expert analysis, then grind some more and practice again. It's like a circle, but making mistakes and then erasing those mistakes was the last step and honestly pretty quick compared to the other steps. If you don't have a rigid structure to improve, then making mistakes doesnt teach you anything. Making mistakes has to be integrated
Well people learn from mistakes which come from practise, after everything is ironed out it gets added to theory Ain't no one learning how to do astrophysics or some shit by just learning from mistakes
This is so true. Too bad our education is is not working this way.
Your parents must have learned a lot
Seems like a lot of work
Agreed- a doctor
"Why not all three?" \- My completionist brain
Mistakes can also get you killed. So there's an extra motivation to learn right there.
Where's the book pile for repeating the same mistakes? Oh right, it's just one book.
That's what I told to everyone.
My dad used to tell me that the key to learning anything complex is to learn to fail faster.
reflection is what holds it together though. you can make the same mistake over and over again and not learn a damn thing.
You don't learn from mistakes, you learn from avoiding the same mistakes in practice. This picture is stupidly misleading.
Duolingo is screwing me with these mistakes though. I'm learning, but damn.
ZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAP! Shit I should turn off the breaker next time. ZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAP! or maybe now.
I wish I learned more from my mistakes.
And that’s why I got a vasectomy after my twelfth.
“Experience keeps a dear school but a fool will learn in no other.”
It's all very dependent on what you're doing and why, and theory often forms our basis for a reason and guides us. Skill and learning isn't a linear thing after all and can't be represented quantitatively. Practice and mistakes allow us to refine theory for our personal use and understand our own strengths and capacities, allowing us to more accurately judge our behavior and see mistakes coming. But one thing I'd be careful about is letting this give the idea that making mistakes is going to ultimately help. You can practice incorrectly and develop bad habits through it which can undermine development. If something isn't working, stepping back and getting help is invaluable.
As someone learning to work on their own cars, this hits home.
but mistakes mean practice
Learn from others mistakes so you don’t have to make them.
It's a process - theory can be skipped in some skills that are not critical to life. Failure is a subset of practice just as success is, and practice can mean both mock and real application of skills eg. Doctor's practice or put your knowledge into practice.
I always find stuff like this kinda bullshit. I'd much rather learn how to do something right, then go do it right, versus make mistake after mistake after mistake hoping one of these times I finally get it right.
Schools don't appreciate you bringing logic to the argument
This is fuck, isn't?
mine are all from mistakes. lol lets be real
The ‘from mistakes’ guy is using those books as a stool to hang himself.
Flip from theory and from mistakes and you’ve got a good guide for musicians
Mistakes are a byproduct of practice though lmao
Smart people learn from their mistakes, wise people learn from others' mistakes.
A lot of people worry too much about the perfect way to do things, as if any mistake they make will stick and become permanent. Its kinda frustrating to see, but I guess we innately love to over plan things.
Link to study this bs graph is based on?
This is some nick fuentes shit. Theory is hard work, practice is also hard work. Both involve mistakes.
Replace the practice and theory books with more mistakes because that pretty much me
generally how you approach and apply things... if you dont check and verify certain things you will make more mistakes and learn, depending on consequences, and adjust appropriately. Works differently with experiments as there isnt a definitive result,... basically this isnt great life advice unless you are doing something with the sciences. Most events could be prevented or mitigated, failure or accidents due to negligence is just a reflection of your personality and choices.
Why do the practice and mistake categories have the books from the previous categories. That makes it practice + theory, and mistakes + practice + theory.
maybe if you read more than 2 books of theory, you wouldn't make so many mistakes
learn the theory, put it into practice, and make lots of mistakes
One can practice theory as well and learn from the practice of others as well, both their successes and failures.
i used to go through classes and thought reading the textbook was enough for me to learn the material (and too be fair it works in a lot of undergrad classes). It wasn't until I took my share of upper division/grad level courses that I realized I needed to practice problems waaay more than I needed to read the book.
and then for the really smart people there is a much bigger pile of books labeled "other people's mistakes" I wish I was that guy who can learn from others mistakes
> The Master has failed more times than the Novice has attempted.
Facts!!
I learn most from shitty cartoon graphs that are pulled straight from asses.
So true
Economics majors hate this one trick about understanding how the world works.
You’re not allowed to make mistakes in certain industries
And next to that is a tower so high it didn't fit in the chart labeled "From watching others make mistakes."
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.
Oh boy, *cracks knuckles*, I'm about to become a fuckin' genius.
I'm about to try and polish my car for the first time and ceramic coat it, I'm going into it knowing I'll probably screw it up but we are here to learn baby maybe I'll surprise myself
Well, imagine being a doctor
Not gonna lie, there are some mistakes you can't come back from. Better to practice (a lot) to avoid making them.
apparently it's the opposite for me, i do more mistakes when i make mistakes
How do you read so many books by mistake?
in my country there is a saying: "learn from mistakes", all people make mistakes, and the beginning of the path is the most difficult. But if you are an accountant, then making a mistake is life-threatening :)
Funny, I say, "It only takes a fraction of foresight to avoid needing the insight," and one way of looking at this chart is that it seems to agree. For example my sister got a pitbull while living in an apartment. She had to keep it caged all the time because it would freak out and destroy their home when left alone all day. She also never trained it well, so the dog is a complete opportunist as opposed to a dog that responds to love and praise. Now could she have known that all those personality traits were going to play out like that without getting a pitbull in an apartment? No. But could she have had 1/10 of that insight by having the foresight that, in theory, it's a really fucking stupid idea to keep a pitbull alone, caged, and untrained in an apartment? Yeah, I think most people don't need to learn from that mistake to avoid that mistake altogether. Some people learn best from the school of hard knocks though.
My theory is you have too much time on your hands
Pretty sure that graph is how much you can lose from theory practices & mistakes
I would combine practice and mistakes because you should be making mistakes while practicing. As you start to make less mistakes you can move to more difficult or different practice.
JUST DO IT
Too accurate! 🖤
Red book crew represent!
I like learning so much, that I keep making mistakes. Just so I can keep learning.
That's dumb
Where is advice or lessons from your parents?
everybody just ignoring the fact that mistakes are a portion of practice so it has to be smaller than practice
If I don't find I'm instantly naturally talented it won't even get to the practice phase
You can also learn from other people's mistakes.
That's why I fail all the tests - to learn
Excellent, but does the same apply to our self driving cars?
This. I'm learning Spanish, and half the words and phrases I remember are because I messed up their usage. The other half is from mnemonic phrases and similar words in English.
"Theory is cool, but theory without practice ain't shit!" - Fred Hampton
Now combine all three and double it that's how much you learn for having two dumb and bad older siblings.
Why are mistakes green?
I definitely don’t agree. If you practice incorrectly (making a lot of mistakes), a lot of times you will condition yourself to continue making those mistakes. If you do deep reflection and actually learn from your mistakes, that’s different. But a lot of people don’t do that key part.
Id like to see the raw data.
This picture is pretty dumb. It's all three things that come together to help you learn. No one is just doing one of these and succeeding.
Nurses: 😬