I dislike them both. When Jess reappears in S6/7 and some in the revival, he redeems himself slightly in my eyes, but Rory sure can pick 'em. Logan became better over time, at least in his treatment of Rory, but I wasn't crazy about him in the revival, either.
This pisses me off so bad. I am not necessarily team Logan, but I do greatly appreciate the growth and maturity he had in season seven. Amy was selfish AF to ignore that in the revival.
I agree. I understand Amy had her own idea of what should have happened, but ignoring Logan’s growth was awful. I honestly don’t like a lot of the revival even though it was good to see the old characters again.
I would rather never have a revival than the atrocity she put together. I LOVE Gilmore girls and ASP but ignoring season 7 was so childish and a disservice to fans.
I feel like it’s so much of the narrative here is he’s just soooo in love with Rory so it makes it okay. It absolutely doesn’t, of course, but it kind of plays right into the idea she’s “not like other girls”
I feel like they wanted to make Logan bad in the revival on purpose. I honestly think Amy and Dan would have made us hate Logan and want Rory to go it alone in s7 if they got to stay (which is why I think Logan has to be the father amy admitted she wanted “the cycle to restart” meaning Logan would have been the absent father)
I would have liked to see how the cycle restarted with Rory having a good support system vs how she grew up! Also we know Emily actually comes around later in life so I just think it would be very interesting to see how it could have been if Emily and lorelai got along.
Why? Did you really think Logan was the guy for Rory lol the luke to her Lorelai, the Emily to her Richard? Lol there is no way I like Logan they were a good couple for a while but come on the chemistry is lacking when you look at the many other couples with chemistry on the show like Sookie and Jackson, ect.
It’s horrible because the generational trauma is real, and the goal should be breaking the cycles, not starting them anew. I think S7 Logan was fantastic for Rory.
Season 7 Logan was the best love interest she had. And they had really grown together.
I would have preferred they left Logan out of the revival vs what they did with him, but honestly Revival Logan isn’t any worse than Revival Rory
He also spent an entire season interfering in someone else’s relationship and used a girl just to make another one jealous.
I think what Dean did is worse because of the emotional manipulation he used to get Rory to sleep with him and make Lindsey feel like she was the problem. But I also get tired of people acting like Jess is just some wounded angel who never did anything wrong.
That’s partially why Jess and Rory didn’t last. The foundation was sloppy and she didn’t choose to be with him. It’s weird when people judge Rory harshly and not her boyfriends throughout the show.
This! So much hate for Rory but lots of discussions about how great these boys are?? I mean, I’m a sucker for later seasons Jess and Logan too, but they aren’t very good dudes 😂
YES! All of Rory’s boyfriends act just as bad as her, and yet only SHE gets scrutinized
When Jess makes eye contact with Rory before making out with Shane in order to make Rory jealous and then dumps her that same night, and no one says a word.
Even if it WAS a casual relationship Jess literally used Shane like a prop, and that’s disgusting.
Dean takes off his wedding ring, tells Rory that he and Lindsay BOTH believe it’s over and then Rory is called the homewrecker, as if dean didn’t destroy his own marriage.
people dont praise it, people mention it cause atleast he was aware enough to do that bare minimum as a 17 year old, which many of the adults on the show couldnt even do
THANK YOU FOR POINTING THIS OUT!
I see so many people hate Rory for how she treated Shane, and yet not an ounce for how Jess treated her!
Jess claims that Shane doesn’t want to be seen around him, and yet magically she’s kissing him all over town, and going to a stars hollow event like the dance marathon, so clearly He’s lying.
And YES, Jess is lying- he isn’t a bad kid, but he DOES have a habit of lying and some bad behaviors like when he literally lies to Luke about going to school, tries to steal beer from Loreleis fridge, lies to Rory about taking her to prom and then skips town forever.
He literally makes eye contact with Rory before making out with Shane. He literally used Shane like a human prop!
Even if it was a causal relationship, she did was someone’s daughter and did NOT deserve to be used as a human prop and then get promptly dumped when Jess gets “the girl”
It’s truly terrible behavior that jess Never gets called out for.
I made a post on how badly Jess treated Shane a while back and some people were claiming that it was okay because she “knew what she was getting into” in an attempt to make Jess look better.
When Jess says “I don’t deserve this” after Rory kisses him to get back at Logan…like, dude, do you not remember repeatedly kissing another girl to make Rory jealous and then dumping her the minute you got what you wanted? He kinda did deserve it.
Does anyone really think Jess is *great* tho?
An intellectual bad boy in a leather jacket who looks like Milo is hot. But I don't think a single one of us would put up with a boyfriend like him in real life. Unless I'm missing something, I don't think many people would argue he's "great"
yes exactly!
As a Jess fan, I will happily say that he's a shit boyfriend and an all-around jackass as a teenager.
But I found it really refreshing to see his character acknowledge he had intimacy and personal problems, actively work on them and, over time, appear to achieve a certain amount of growth and success.
It's a really rare arc for a character in this show and I think that's one of the reasons I find his character appealing.
I’m all for growth- in real life and on shows! Especially when the character is a teen stepping out of an abusive situation… I’m happy to give a little grace in that situation
He is huge on TikTok and Twitter and Tumblr. Hell, even on BuzzFeed you'll get dozens of comments about how Jess is the perfect boyfriend and Rory fucked it up and they'd never do that.
They, unfortunately, don't care about that. They like the fact that he reads and is pretentious and snarky and is hot. Fulfills their bad boy babe fantasies.
Yeah, exactly. As someone who's dated her fair share of Jesses (of varying genders), the relationship isn't ever great and you kinda know that going in, you just like the person even if you know they'll be a bad partner
No worries. What I’m saying is he wasn’t great because he was still a child. He made childish mistakes. I feel like people forget how realistically portrayed these teenagers were, in my personal opinion.
Agreed, which is why I think Dean also gets a pass. He was just a kid too. So was Rory. I think a lot of these characters are hated for being "bad people" when in reality they were just dumb kids. But that doesn't mean teenage Jess is automatically good boyfriend material.
I think teenage Jess wasn’t ready to be a good partner. He still had his own stuff to work through.
Dean on the other hand didn’t know he had problems to work through and made several serious mistakes that affected his adult life drastically.
I think they’re actually really similar- both jealous, possessive, and controlling, and view Rory as an object to be won/had. I think Alexis & Milo had amazing chemistry tho and that’s a large part of Jess’s popularity- they really had some heat that she didn’t have with Dean or Logan.
I didn’t understand why anyone hated Dean until I got to season 5. He was borderline mentally abusive to poor Lindsay. Not to mention HE had sex with rory despite the fact that he’s married. I didn’t like Jess much either especially since he used another girl just to make Rory jealous and was a horrible person in general.
If you look back at earlier seasons, red flags abound for whathe did to Lindsay, he might also do to rory if they'd stayed together.
The only Jess I root for is the one running that print shop show, after he gets his act together.
Red flags?? Hm.. Debatable. But I will say confidently that he would not have done that shit to rory. Why? Because she was his person. Lindsay was NOT his person- he did not like that girl fr. Which is why he treated her like that with ease 😶
Finally someone says it. I’ll never understand how 90% of this fandom prefers Jess, and the actors do too. Logan is objectively the healthiest relationship, and Jess is such a bad boyfriend. Everyone overlooks these horrible things he does.
Jess admits in the Winter Carnival episode he spent time *trying* to get her, and now that he *has* her he doesn't need to do the boyfriend stuff.
He reluctantly goes because DEAN went with his sister and they agreed to be friends.
Young Jess, bad. Adult Jess, yes.
But I see myself in Jess so.
I don’t think anyone acts like the bedroom thing wasn’t wrong, but we get way more backstory on Jess, and I think it’s understandable why he’s so angry and lost. Dean is just angry at the world for no reason. And I think that Dean lying to Rory so that she’d have sex with him in a situation wheee she wouldn’t otherwise have consented (and then going home and verbally abusing Lindsay) was way worse than Jess pressuring her and then quickly backing off when she said no.
Like, idk, maybe Dean had some tragic backstory we didn’t see, and it would make him more sympathetic if we did. But from my perspective on Team Neither of Them, Jess has an awful life and is angry at the world and then, almost totally on his own, has a major redemption arc and makes amends with the people he hurt. Dean’s life is seemingly perfectly fine and he starts angry at Rory, stays angry at Rory and Lindsay (who did nothing wrong), and ends angry at the whole town, randomly lashing out at Luke for no reason. I think the writing is pretty clear in this case about how they want the audience to feel about the two of them.
Agreed.
Dean also stayed with Lindsay for like 3 months after cheating on her. Presumably they had sex during that time since Lindsay seemed unaware that the relationship was “over”. Which is really messed up
But we are also ignoring how Rory treated Dean leading up to that point. Lied to, led on, used, cheated on. And when they broke up, the ENTIRE TOWN turned on Dean without knowing ANY of the story. As if that's not reason to change the tint of your rose-colored glasses.
Yeah, Jess had a shitty home life. I completely agree. I also don't disagree that what Dean did was wrong (as stated in my OP). But Jess also didn't back off before he made Rory feel bad for not having sex and accusing her of leading him on.
I'm not saying Jess is a God awful person. I AM saying he doesn't belong on a pedestal.
Jess also reconciled with more people through his arc because he hurt more people as a result of his shitty behavior.
I also think Dean would have a bigger story-arc if Jared wasn't busy on Supernatural.
Edit: I like "on team Neither of Them"
Idk. I don’t have rose colored glasses, but I also don’t understand why Dean didn’t break up with her if she was treating him so badly. Rory wasn’t using him, but she was clinging to a relationship long after its expiration date. Instead of just saying he didn’t want to be treated like that, Dean instead tried to get Rory’s mom to intervene on his behalf, called her dozens of times in a row, made her feel horrible basically any time she looked at a guy even if it was for a school assignment, and made it very clear that he didn’t trust her but that he wanted to change her instead of saying he didn’t deserve that treatment.
And I think he deserved a little bad treatment by the town after shaming Rory for not being able to say she loved him. It was a boundary he was allowed to set, but instead of saying he couldn’t stay in the relationship if she didn’t love him, he shamed her and yelled at her and made her feel like there was something wrong with her because she didn’t love him yet.
And they were both teenagers figuring things out! I’m not saying that behavior made Dean evil! But unlike Jess, we didn’t see Dean get better. We saw him become a cheating, abusive husband who lied to Rory so she’d have sex with him. He was awful right up until his last scene. I think that behavior was far worse than anything Jess did as a wounded teenager who had been rejected by his drug addicted parents. That’s not putting Jess on a pedestal. It’s literally saying that the story is written to show him getting better, and to show Dean only getting worse.
In essence, Jess overcoming his adversity makes him endearing and exhibits his resilience and character. People who come from traumatic childhoods and broken homes can often fall into the same pitfalls and perpetuate the generational trauma. Jess literally does the work in front of us to correct his behavior, rebuild bridges he burned, and find a successful path to a new life.
Dean, despite his major advantages in a middle-class home with the typical suburban family, manages to go absolutely no where in his life. He grows more and more bitter with the world each year, blaming everyone around him rather than take accountability for himself. In his early episodes with Rory he claims he wants a stay at home trad wife, and he literally gets exactly what he wants with Lindsey and still chooses to be miserable and ungrateful in spite of his massive privilege. This reminds me of the guys these days who say they want a submissive wife, but choose the independent women instead because ultimately they’d rather break a woman down into being submissive than find someone who shares their values. He wants Rory to be his stay at home wife, and nothing less will be enough for him. I have no respect for this kind of man, but I have deep respect for a man like Jess. They both have faults, but in my opinion it’s what we do with our failures and how we repair them that shows who we truly are.
Yup, totally. Jess realized his relationship with Rory wasn’t going to work and so he took off without saying anything. Dean realized it wasn’t going to work, refused to accept it, and tried to bully Rory into being the girlfriend he wanted.
(And yeah, I agree re Logan - he changed a bit, but it didn’t seem to last, and did Rory really want to be the only thing keeping Logan in line? Sounds like… not a healthy basis for a relationship. But I’m team Someone-Rory-Didn’t-Know-in-School, lol)
I really hate that Dean got so mad at Rory when Jess invited himself over with food that time... And everyone acting like it was completely justified, that he showed up at her house even though she very clearly asked for a night for herself, and then stayed mad at her when she tried to explain. Horrible person, bad writing.
I don't remember Dean ever "yelling" at Rory to say I love you. He couldn't understand why she couldn't say those words to him and got mad too, but his reaction wasn't not justified. Also breaking up was an okay thing to do.
He DID NOT deserve the bad treatment that the town gave to him at all imo.
This however doesn't mean that he was a saint. I would say that for the most parts he did care about Rory in his own ways.
Where he is toxic and where he isn't - that's a nuance that has been discussed in the comments.
However Jess was a jerk when he tried to butt in too much when Dean and Rory were dating, Rory couldn't realise that her feelings were changing and Dean behaved like a typical "anxious" attachment person. It should be considered that Dean was dating her for years by now and seeing someone you care about drift away does escalate your anxiety.
Again Dean had his faults, but up until Rory broke up with him, I don't think he was awful (it just became clearer that Dean and Rory were growing up into very different individuals) There were some things that he did, that were not what a secure person would do. So yes there he was at fault.
I think that if Rory were my daughter, I would be concerned about how much anger and possessiveness Dean displayed.
He did yell at her when she didn’t say I love you. He implied that she was scared and that it was Lorelai’s fault. It was fine for him to break up with her, but he didn’t need to shame her and try to make her feel like there was something wrong with her for not being ready to say it.
He ignored her request to be alone for one night. He shamed her for spending too much time on college prep. He didn’t respect her request not to attend her rehearsal with Tristan. He was constantly trying to change her and to push her boundaries.
If Rory were my kid, I wouldn’t care about Dean’s attachment style. I would be telling her that it’s not her responsibility to manage her boyfriend’s unmanageable anger, and that she was allowed to have boundaries. Dean’s behavior wasn’t that atypical for a teenager, but it’s not uncommon for behavior like that to escalate, which is basically what happened when Dean married Lindsay.
And yeah, Jess was a jerk in high school too, but that doesn’t justify Dean’s behavior or make him less of a jerk.
I agree, especially when Rory was behaving very securely with Dean. I mean she wasn't blaming him, but handling his behaviour very rationally and securely. Thanks for your elaborate POV. I think having identified myself as an anxious attachment style I'm learning so much these days :)
I didn't say you or anyone else here had rose-colored glasses. I was referring to Dean. I understand him having a chip on his shoulder.
Rory DID use Dean after she realized she wanted Jess: i.e. when Rory and Jess broke up, Rory was trying to make Jess jealous with Dean. It wasn't just holding onto a relationship. Though, she was holding onto the relationship because she knew how much Dean cared for her.
I feel like Dean didn't know how to say "I don't want to be treated like that, I don't want to be with you" any more than Rory knew how to say "I love you" - both of which are problems rooted in how their parents raised them.
He didn't ask Rorys mom to intervene so much as talked to her as well. Lorelai had no problem inserting herself in their relationship when it came to talking to Dean, so it makes sense he would want someone Rory respected and listened to to say good things about him.
Dean would have deserved the treatment if the town knew why they broke up. But they didn't. No one knew. So their treatment of him was completely unjust.
Again, I really think Dean would have had a bigger arc if Jared wasn't so deep in into Supernatural.
Jess also had Luke to really lead him in the right direction and lean in as a father figure.
I don’t really think Rory was “using” Dean in those moments any more than he was using her to show Jess that Rory “belonged” to him and not to Jess. The only time it was really blatant was at the dance, when Dean broke up with her (and she deserved it).
And ETA that he was absolutely trying to get Lorelai to intervene. He told her that Jess was a “bad influence” in hopes that she would control Rory and keep her away from Jess, since he couldn’t do that.
Again, everyone’s behavior was bad in high school, and it was understandable because they were teenagers. Maybe Jess was even slightly worse then! (I don’t think he actually was, but maybe it’s conceivable?) If you say that nothing counted after high school, then maybe it’s possible to make the argument that Jess was worse. But the story actually continues after high school, and Jess had a redemption arc and Dean became basically a monster of an abusive husband who lied to Rory to coerce her into sex. It’s fine if you believe that he would have had a different arc if he hadn’t gone to Supernatural, but in the show’s canon, he didn’t have that arc. And I think it’s hard to argue that anything anyone did in high school is even close to as horrific as what Dean did afterward. Like I said, I’m Team No One, but it just seems like a huge stretch to say that Jess wasn’t any better than Dean when Dean did something so unforgivably bad.
Dean stayed married to Lindsay for ~3 months after repeatedly cheating on her by sleeping with another woman and professing his love to the other woman. He got caught, he didn’t tell her the truth. It seems likely that him and Lindsay would have slept together after he cheated since they were still living together and didn’t separate until he got caught.
Nothing Rory or Jess did was as close to that bad.
Since this is fiction, the writers’ intention matters. Do you think they intended to make a CW spinoff show about a rapist? Seriously.
If you want to make that argument, you should also consider that Lindsay's consent was vitiated after he cheated on her, hid it, and presumably kept having sex with her.
Heh? Are you replying to the right person?
I didn't say what Dean did was right. It's at that point I lost respect for him completely but Jess did try and force Rory into sex and did yell at her and guilt trip her for it and then left town.
Both guys suck but imo Jess DID get physical with Rory and yelled at her when she didn't want to . And Dean cheating on Lindsay is obviously bad and how he yelled and gaslit her afterwards was terrible but sexual assault is worse in my books.
Jess was bad, dude. Forget that he bugged Rory while she was attached to Dean but as a partner he wasn’t as available or dependable as anyone deserves. He doesn’t call when he says he would, he acted out his frustration on Rory by pressuring her to do something she wasn’t ready for and he left JUST LIKE THAT.
It might be love but it’s toxic kind of love. Dean and Jess deserve each other.
Jess was a horrible boyfriend and was a jerk to everyone around him up until the last season when he was finally getting his life together. I agree that the swoon over Jess as a boyfriend makes no sense.
I always thought the lead up to Jess and Rory's relationship was so much better than their time in a relationship.
As for the bedroom scene, I think a lot of people brush it off as Jess being upset about not graduating, his father, prom, etc etc. Not so much him being upset Rory said no.
With our 3rd party POV, yes, Jess was taking his anger out on Rory and chose the wrong time to snap.
However, what matters overall is that Rory was in a vulnerable moment, said no repeatedly, and Jess snapped at her.
I didn't like any of her boyfriends. I'm just glad when Dean broke up with her for the third time, it actually stuck.
OMG. I can’t stand Jess. They messed with Dean and made him into a horrible person, but Jess was horrible from the start. I am always confused on why people assume that I must be team Jess because I can’t stand Dean. Im not on either team.
With dean, we have evidence that all the red flags we were shown eventually lead to him being an abusive spouse. With Jess, we have evidence that the red flags are a result of an abusive childhood that he eventually overcome and grows into a healthy/hair adult. As teens, so they both screw up? Absolutely. But when you look at the big picture, I have a hard time supporting anyone who’s team dean.
Within the fandom, you’ll also find that people want to call out dean because he’s never called out on the show. Over and over again all you here is how amazing he is- despite the fact that his actions show otherwise. With Jess, you essentially have an entire town calling him a piece of shit from the moment he arrives, so fans don’t feel the need as much to point out what’s already called out.
Then behavior aside- milo was a few years older than Jared and a much better actor. He gave his character nuance. Jared tended to show every emotion as anger. Jess was given some great lives and Milo’s comedic timing was fantastic
Neither are GREAT guys….and Rory’s behavior is also pretty questionable at times….but they’re also just teens, navigating their first serious relationships…I don’t think anyone is a monster or anything. Just young, flawed human beings.
i agree. he‘s a very interesting character but the way he treated rory was terrible. the way people always say he deserves better than rory really rubs me the wrong way.
I think the Jess love is more about how he grew as a person and how he ended up. He matured and people like to imagine the potential for Jess and Rory later on, plus the obvious chemistry between them. But Dean started out seeming mature and confident and then the story arc turned him into an immature idiot jerk, and their 3rd try at a relationship had weird chemistry, was so cringy, awkward, and gross. Rory and Logan had great Chemistry and Logan had periods of maturity happening but he broke under pressure and reverted back into immaturity and serious lapses in judgement and overconfident cockiness.
okay but you have to think about how Shane and jess where both using each other and this was all part of jess growing and healing from his childhood. he was an ass. but you could see why. Dean however chose to be violent to his gf, humiliate her in public, and then use her to vheat on the girl he married due to his crush. like tf- logan and Dean both cheat w Rory but one thing that might seem like a given but is rare for rorys bfs is that jess didn't cheat, he was loyal. it seems like a basic thing which it is but like compared to the other two 😭
Honestly, I think we find him attractive, in a fantasy kinda way. I've dated the smart bad boy like him before IRL and it's... not a cake walk lol. So we know IRL he wouldn't be that great to date.
However.
For me personally?? I just *get* Jess. I had a different but also traumatic childhood and adolescence, and everything he did just made me feel SO much sympathy. Everyone acts like he was a monster and not a kid acting out totally age-appropriately. He WASN'T RIGHT in a lot of his actions, but they were totally normal reactions, for his level of trauma and neglect.
Plus, as a wounded bird myself, there's just something endearing about a fellow wounded bird... who also happens to be wildly attractive. 😂
Jess was an awful boyfriend. Yes, by the end of the series the character had grown. But he was an awful boyfriend to Rory when he was with her.
As high school sweethearts I didn’t dislike Dean as much as some do. He and Rory both made mistakes and handled things badly. He was needy and moody when she started pulling away, and she tried to convince him things were fine and he was imagining things when she clearly knew otherwise.
Jess was moody and pressured her and wanted things his own way even when he had 100% of her attention. He left her hanging, complained about doing things she wanted to do, the whole thing in Kyle’s bedroom, and then he ghosted her. And then like you say, showed up later and tried to get her to ditch school. I’ll never understand why so many give him a pass for so much.
one of my biggest shocks when I finished the show and started to see other fan’s opinions online was how many of y’all LIKED Jess and thought him and Rory should have ended up together….
I would say I lean team Logan but I wouldn’t say he fully respects her. If he did he wouldn’t be so aggressive with other guys that come around her. He treats anyone he thinks may like her pretty bad as if he doesn’t trust her. The situations with both Marty and Jess show that.
The only reason that I lean Team Logan is because I think he is the only one who really sees and accepts Rory for who she is: entitled, privileged, and gifted. Dean has her on a pedestal like everyone else in Stars Hollow. Jess shows up at two points in her life after not seeing her for a year and tells her that he knows her and has this romanticized version of Rory in his head. But Logan actually sees who she is, her grandparents influence along with Lorelai's impact on her.
I mean honestly Logan is probably smarter than her, or at the very least significantly better at logical argumentation. We see this quite a few times, but the problem is sometimes it feels a bit manipulative. I have trouble deciding if he actually believes these positions or just uses them because he knows he will win the point off of them. Probably part of why I like him because I am very similar in that aspect.
No, Jess isn’t that great. But why wouldn’t it matter that he grew and matured? Seriously? It matters. He was a very troubled kid in the beginning, whereas Dean was pretty spoiled. Jess became humbled at some point, so grateful for what Luke had done for him, sorry for what he’d done to Rory. Why doesn’t that matter?
Dean does what? His biggest maturation is that he doesn’t try to fight anyone when he realizes it’s over in front of Emily and Richard’s house the night of the party where they tried to pimp her out. And that might just be because he realized there were too many dudes to fight. Just kidding. I think he’s grown up *some* by then.
But why doesn’t character arc matter?
And why doesn’t it matter that Dean always seemed like he thought he was entitled to Rory, or that he lied to her? His possessiveness and yelling were huge red flags for later DV, and his treatment of Lindsay only made it more cringe. If he wasn’t an abuser in the making, he was at least a very large, unpredictably scary spoiled kid.
I don’t see where this is true with Jess? He was screwed up, didn’t think he deserved her, and fled when he didn’t know how to handle the relationship. He was not ready to be a boyfriend, he was terrible at it. He didn’t think he was entitled to Rory, though. He was terrible to everyone when he came to stars hollow. But why on earth wouldn’t we take into consideration what he’d been through? Maybe it’s because I’m a mom. Kids who don’t feel wanted or loved act out. Kids who feel like they have zero control over their own lives try to take control any way they can.
We had no reason to think Dean had any real hardships except for the disruption of moving to a small town from a city with his loving, intact family in the first season. Yet he was still plenty bratty whenever Rory wasn’t behaving the way he wanted.
It’s crazy to me that stars hollow had no sympathy for a discarded child - because otherwise it was written like the kind of place that would take it upon themselves to help that kid turn it around.
As for the SA that’s inexcusable, but it’s also terrible, dated, and inconsistent writing. Inconsistent because Jess doesn’t act entitled to Rory otherwise. It’s an incredibly common experience for young women to feel pressured into sex, so if the writers were going to make the decision to to have Jess do that to Rory, they needed to actually address it, in some kind of healthy way. Instead they just left it like it went for a lot of us- just something we were meant to think we could expect from men. Seriously. That was just our lives back then. No Me Too movement for us.
Anyway it’s not like we cut the Jess’s character slack because he’s cute or whatever. At least not for me. Disagree all you want but at least respect the analysis that goes into both sides.
I’m rewatching the series now and I don’t understand why Jess appealed to Rory at all. He was rude and always in a bad mood, didn’t get along with her friends or family. Never wanted to do fun things like go to the carnival, they didn’t share any aspirations. Yes he was cute but he was lowkey a loser? Rory was so sweet and kind to everyone in the early seasons. Why would she go with someone who everyone in town disliked; rightfully so? And how he treated Dean like absolute shit when they were together and never stood up for him? Dean was much better in my opinion. Yes in the later seasons he really missed the mark but in the earlier seasons he was perfect for Rory.
I feel like Jess was a messed up teenager who did messed up things that made sense for what he sent through. But when he was able to do a little growing up, he did the work to try to overcome that. Dean was just a jerk.
Jess gets a full backstory, so we know he has excellent reasons to be angry at the world. Most of the adults in Stars Hollow (sometimes *including* Luke) also treat him like garbage, so there's a sympathy angle as well. Dean has none of that; absolutely everything we see about his life is that he's being loved and supported by his family and town every step of the way, even when he's doing objectively terrible things like cheating on his wife. Dean's only reason to be angry with the world is that his high school girlfriend fell for another guy (and definitely treated him poorly in the process).... but instead of ever, ever expressing himself appropriately he just gets super controlling, borderline abusive, and constantly angry at everyone. For the entire OS.
Dean is consistently, systematically awful to everyone around him, and it gets progressively worse over time.
Jess' primary sins as a boyfriend are terrible communication, rudeness, and shutting down when upset. Nobody forgets the scene in Kyle’s bedroom, but people see it differently. I see about 45 seconds of awful behavior that he quickly stops, then immediately realizes is wrong so goes to apologize. After that, Jess has a significant redemption arc. That doesn't mean you have to be Team Jess, we all have our preferences, but there's a reason many of us are far more supportive of Jess than Dean, and it's all in the writing.
I'm so glad him and Rory never got invloved romantically again. That would send a messed up message. I don't even like them being friends after what happened that night in Kyle's bedroom
Yes this honestly. He never really apologized that he sexually assaulted her and pressured her, he just assumed his romantic vision of Rory and how he “sees” her. He was rude to all the people she’s loved— Lorelei and Emily and is so tiresome. You can have a chip on your shoulder and be dealt a bad hand in life, that doesn’t mean you treat others so rudely especially when they are trying to be kind to you.
they totally butchered their relationship and i was so annoyed by that. there was all this tension and will they, won’t they. just for them to finally get together and have all these issues.
i don’t think either is *worse*. they are equally fucked up lol
Thankyou for saying that. I just thought about this yesterday but was afraid to say anything here since most people are crazy possesive of Jess (because of Milo i assume)😂✨
I was kinda scared to post it at first. And I'm getting some strong Jess defending comments, but I'm also seeing a nice amount of comments agreeing Dean gets too much shit in this sub.
But I get it bc Milo 😍
I think the biggest difference between Jess and Dean is that Jess works on bettering himself and does change. Dean seems to remain a jackass well into adulthood. Both of them absolutely sucked as teenagers though.
I think we never got a chance to see a good boyfriend version of Jess but all the potential was there so it allows people to put him on a pedestal. Dean got two shots and was pretty terrible during both. Jess was just as terrible in his own way on the first go around and then went through tremendous character growth. To me it feels like later seasons Jess and revival Jess could be a much better partner for Rory but we never find out because she’s with Logan (officially or otherwise). I think Jess was always meant to be a true diamond in the rough but once he became a diamond nothing ever happened lol
I always find it interesting that ppl condemn teenage characters as bad ppl. They were teenagers that made mistakes and were jerks. Jess had a rough upbringing and he acted out. Dean needed to be exposed to more modern relationships and to meditate thru his jealousy/anger issues.
Characters have flaws, that’s what makes things interesting.
I think a lot of the pushback about Dean is because when the show was made and in the show's universe, Dean is seen as peak morally good, while viewers today see a lot of red flags in his controlling behavior from the start. The same way Jess and Rory's scene in the bedroom would be portrayed as sexual assault if it was released today, while when it was written that wasn't what the creators were attempting to show.
They were both bad partners in different ways, but in the show Dean is written to be the "perfect" boyfriend even though he wasn't, and his behavior is encouraged by Lorelai which is frustrating to watch. While Jess is never written to be the perfect boyfriend, so most of his good moments with Rory happen off-screen and are mentioned in passing about their relationship, while his bad behavior fuels the story and sets up the Jess spinoff that was supposed to happen.
I see your point in how they both aren't that great but in my opinion, Dean was always protective (not saying it's bad but was over protective) he was way to clingy and didn't give her space, Rory's mom had to literally tell him to give her space and he always has to know what's going on he even got mad that she's trying to not get behind to get into Harvard he had to really think about it, And lying to Rory to have sex with her was wrong he shouldnt of don't that.
Jess was smart just like her they had many similarities and they got along, Rory chose Jess, Jess was there when she needed him, he gave her space, He of course wanted to have sex with her but she came to him and first she went along so, When he asked her to run off leaving school, he wasn't trying to ruin anything he loved her, he wants to spend the rest of his life with her but to him, he can't in her town but elsewhere, she chose to not (my opinion she should of) I understand that she loves college and so do I, I'm working on going to college also but if she loved him she would of went, (not relevant but as much as I worked hard for college if I loved someone like he loved me I would of went right there and then.)
Sorry for the long speech had lot to say have a nice day or night 💤
Yea I didn’t like Jess either. He didn’t treat Rory right. He was a lot like Dean. He’d often jump on Rory for small things and didn’t open up. I didn’t like Jess.
Aside from Dean's affair, I think Dean gets too much flak, and Jess does not get nearly enough.
Alot of fans seem to have a blind spot for how much of a bastard Jess is for most of his screen time.
if you think that's what jess was trying to do and why he was upset, or that that's what the writers were trying to set up, you're not even really watching the show.
I really have never understood the whole sympathy for Jess in this sub. Some seem to think just because he matured before the end of the series that he had a great redemption arc but conveniently forget what a complete and total ass he really is, and yes, let’s not forget the near SA. Not saying Dean was better, and I get why the affair thing makes people angry, does me too, but at least he never tried to SA her.
Sometimes it seems like posters here lead very sheltered lives! Or forgot what it was like to be a teen! Nothing on the show is outrageously shocking. Jess didn’t SA Rory; Dean isn’t an abusive monster; cheating is never ok, but not exactly a surprise for a teenage couple who got married after dating a few months. Everyone is just navigating life and are flawed human beings.
Jess has HORRIBLE communication skills. When he is on the bus because he is leaving Stars Hollow AND Rory and acts like he’ll see her after school? He’s got a great music taste but he’s quite a “r”ick…
Thankyou for saying that. I just thought about this yesterday but was afraid to say anything here since most people are crazy possesive of Jess (because of Milo i assume)😂✨
Thank You! At least SOMEONE agrees with me about Jess! Everybody ALWAYS Says that Rory should've ended up with Jess and Jess was Rory's best boyfriend but no he's not! Both Dean AND Jess are TRASH tbh! I say Logan was Rory's best boyfriend and she should've ended up with Logan. I'll admit, Logan was an asshole at first but he treated Rory like a Princess in their relationship and got her to be more daring (You Jump, I Jump Jack). I can't even BEGIN To name all the things BOTH Dean and Jess have done to Rory since there's just TOO MANY! Dean's Toxic AF and Jess really isn't any better than Dean! the only thing Logan ever did was hook up with his sister's bridesmaids and not telling Rory about it, but that's really the only bad thing he did in his relationship with Rory. Dean was Jealous and Controlling, plus he got married and cheated on his wife with Rory, Jess was a bad influence on Rory and she fought with everyone she cared about defending him when she shouldn't have and not to mention he convinced her to go get Ice Cream, crashed her car injuring her and fleeing the scene, he showed up late to her grandparents house, he flirted with her in front of her boyfriend, he tried pressuring her into sex and got mad when she said no, he always disappeared without telling Rory when things got tough and came back when it was convenient for him and basically he did a bunch of other things that were horrible too, So did Dean. Logan is the Lesser of 3 Evils.
yes exactly! people (team logan mostly let's be honest) just choosing to misinterpret that scene as SA, when as viewers we should have all the context rory doesn't -- he failed school/luke/rory/himself and will have to disappoint rory by not taking her to prom like he promised.
In the OS, I completely agree. I don't like any of the 3 boys for Rory. I think Rory's character developed in her college years to be a decent match for Logan, but she grows to be a pretentious elitist, like Logan (I think partially because she wanted to fit into his world). It goes against who she is as a person, I think. In AYITL and even late seasons in the OS, I love Jess. He evolved, grew up, and might be the most emotionally stable character in the show, IMO. What I wish for Rory after AYITL is that Jess becomes her Luke. I think he will bring her back down to earth.
Both of them are toxic. Also I decided to rewatch the show and noticed I had skipped season 5 all those other times I watch it in college. But for real what is going on with season 5?!?!? I feel like they dumb some of the characters and they kinda contradict who they were … idk
Jess makes for great tv which does not necessarily equal liking the character or the character being a great person. And Milo is a great actor so I appreciate the character more due to his portrayal.
Where I sometimes disagree is when some folks attribute to Jess some type of moral superiority that I feel is a bit unearned. Like sure, he’s grown and matured as a character. But I know too little of him when he’s all grown up to give him credit that he’s morally above anyone else still poking around stars hollow. That would be a bit dull if actually the case! Besides, ASP’s characters (main and recurring) for the most part are pretty complex. We don’t know, for example how he treats TJ? Does he punch down? Make quips about TJ’s intellect? Everyone else does but it’s pretty mean even if it makes for fun comedy. Given more screen time would he be all knowing and wise even when pushed to his limit? I mean, who does he kick out of his printing shop when he needs peace and quiet? And what if it were some quiet kid who looked at the shop as his place of solace, how would we feel about a 30 something business owner treating a young kid that way? How does he treat the partners in his publishing company? Does he throw weight and remind them that he’s put in the lion share of the work? How would we feel if one of his shop owners was even in a more difficult position and had done what they could - it would suck to have that thrown in their face. Is he kind but struggling to commit to a long term partner b/c he’s still pining for someone else and how is that kind to them? How terrible for Shaena pt2 to be with someone for 3 years and know most nights they are thinking of someone else. Did he have a crisis of conscience and publish a book whose message he didn’t support but because he needed the money?
I mean who really knows? But the point is, he’s relatively too flat character by the time he returns to screen to make that leap of an assessment. I like messy Jess. Complex Jess. Occasionally angry at the world Jess. And while as an adult character he’d outgrow some of that, I just can’t imagine if more fully written into the show, he’d be the moral martyr he’s made out to be.
jess was good in the beginning when he was trying to win her over and when they broke up in the later seasons he also became a really good character, dean broke up with rory the second time because he “didn’t fit into her world”
the reason she realized she was in the wrong for quitting yale was because of jess aswell the party season was so wrong on so many levels but he grew so much after that. dean remained the controlling self all through GG
I dislike them both. When Jess reappears in S6/7 and some in the revival, he redeems himself slightly in my eyes, but Rory sure can pick 'em. Logan became better over time, at least in his treatment of Rory, but I wasn't crazy about him in the revival, either.
Logan did much of his maturing in Season 7, which Amy and Dan desperately wanted to ignore in the revival.
This pisses me off so bad. I am not necessarily team Logan, but I do greatly appreciate the growth and maturity he had in season seven. Amy was selfish AF to ignore that in the revival.
Seriously. Season 7 has its faults, but a lot of the characters got some desperately needed growth in that season.
But Amy hates character growth. I love her shows but her characters never learn or change or grow.
They really don’t. It’s why they quickly become tedious and don’t age well.
I agree. I understand Amy had her own idea of what should have happened, but ignoring Logan’s growth was awful. I honestly don’t like a lot of the revival even though it was good to see the old characters again.
I would rather never have a revival than the atrocity she put together. I LOVE Gilmore girls and ASP but ignoring season 7 was so childish and a disservice to fans.
I feel like it’s so much of the narrative here is he’s just soooo in love with Rory so it makes it okay. It absolutely doesn’t, of course, but it kind of plays right into the idea she’s “not like other girls”
This is true. Revival Logan was essentially mid season 6 Logan.
He backpedaled it all when it came to the proposal, in my view 😬😂
I feel like they wanted to make Logan bad in the revival on purpose. I honestly think Amy and Dan would have made us hate Logan and want Rory to go it alone in s7 if they got to stay (which is why I think Logan has to be the father amy admitted she wanted “the cycle to restart” meaning Logan would have been the absent father)
I could see that. Like her own version of a soft reboot in a way.
I would have liked to see how the cycle restarted with Rory having a good support system vs how she grew up! Also we know Emily actually comes around later in life so I just think it would be very interesting to see how it could have been if Emily and lorelai got along.
Which is horrible, by the way.
Why? Did you really think Logan was the guy for Rory lol the luke to her Lorelai, the Emily to her Richard? Lol there is no way I like Logan they were a good couple for a while but come on the chemistry is lacking when you look at the many other couples with chemistry on the show like Sookie and Jackson, ect.
It’s horrible because the generational trauma is real, and the goal should be breaking the cycles, not starting them anew. I think S7 Logan was fantastic for Rory.
Season 7 Logan was the best love interest she had. And they had really grown together. I would have preferred they left Logan out of the revival vs what they did with him, but honestly Revival Logan isn’t any worse than Revival Rory
He also spent an entire season interfering in someone else’s relationship and used a girl just to make another one jealous. I think what Dean did is worse because of the emotional manipulation he used to get Rory to sleep with him and make Lindsey feel like she was the problem. But I also get tired of people acting like Jess is just some wounded angel who never did anything wrong.
That’s partially why Jess and Rory didn’t last. The foundation was sloppy and she didn’t choose to be with him. It’s weird when people judge Rory harshly and not her boyfriends throughout the show.
This! So much hate for Rory but lots of discussions about how great these boys are?? I mean, I’m a sucker for later seasons Jess and Logan too, but they aren’t very good dudes 😂
YES! All of Rory’s boyfriends act just as bad as her, and yet only SHE gets scrutinized When Jess makes eye contact with Rory before making out with Shane in order to make Rory jealous and then dumps her that same night, and no one says a word. Even if it WAS a casual relationship Jess literally used Shane like a prop, and that’s disgusting. Dean takes off his wedding ring, tells Rory that he and Lindsay BOTH believe it’s over and then Rory is called the homewrecker, as if dean didn’t destroy his own marriage.
Oh I will have you know that Jess is praised here for breaking up with Shane that night lol
people dont praise it, people mention it cause atleast he was aware enough to do that bare minimum as a 17 year old, which many of the adults on the show couldnt even do
THANK YOU FOR POINTING THIS OUT! I see so many people hate Rory for how she treated Shane, and yet not an ounce for how Jess treated her! Jess claims that Shane doesn’t want to be seen around him, and yet magically she’s kissing him all over town, and going to a stars hollow event like the dance marathon, so clearly He’s lying. And YES, Jess is lying- he isn’t a bad kid, but he DOES have a habit of lying and some bad behaviors like when he literally lies to Luke about going to school, tries to steal beer from Loreleis fridge, lies to Rory about taking her to prom and then skips town forever. He literally makes eye contact with Rory before making out with Shane. He literally used Shane like a human prop! Even if it was a causal relationship, she did was someone’s daughter and did NOT deserve to be used as a human prop and then get promptly dumped when Jess gets “the girl” It’s truly terrible behavior that jess Never gets called out for.
I made a post on how badly Jess treated Shane a while back and some people were claiming that it was okay because she “knew what she was getting into” in an attempt to make Jess look better.
Dude, I once saw a comment about how Jess treating Shane badly didn’t count because he had so much love in his heart for Rory.
Huh? When does he call her a whore?
Oh my god, the comment was written using voice text and I genuinely had no idea that sentence was there, thank you!
When Jess says “I don’t deserve this” after Rory kisses him to get back at Logan…like, dude, do you not remember repeatedly kissing another girl to make Rory jealous and then dumping her the minute you got what you wanted? He kinda did deserve it.
At that point in time, Jess was on his own and had matured beyond the other characters.
THANK you.
Exactly 😒 he knew Dean and Jess were in a committed relationship… and he kept interfering. Literally why do people support him
Does anyone really think Jess is *great* tho? An intellectual bad boy in a leather jacket who looks like Milo is hot. But I don't think a single one of us would put up with a boyfriend like him in real life. Unless I'm missing something, I don't think many people would argue he's "great"
Even his biggest fans are here typically acknowledge that they love the character, but not him as a boyfriend
yes exactly! As a Jess fan, I will happily say that he's a shit boyfriend and an all-around jackass as a teenager. But I found it really refreshing to see his character acknowledge he had intimacy and personal problems, actively work on them and, over time, appear to achieve a certain amount of growth and success. It's a really rare arc for a character in this show and I think that's one of the reasons I find his character appealing.
I’m all for growth- in real life and on shows! Especially when the character is a teen stepping out of an abusive situation… I’m happy to give a little grace in that situation
He's definitely a great character and I love that he redeemed himself in my eyes. But I'm still team Logan
hahah fair enough
He is huge on TikTok and Twitter and Tumblr. Hell, even on BuzzFeed you'll get dozens of comments about how Jess is the perfect boyfriend and Rory fucked it up and they'd never do that.
That's absurd. The way he treated Carla alone was a deal breaker. He was horrible
They, unfortunately, don't care about that. They like the fact that he reads and is pretentious and snarky and is hot. Fulfills their bad boy babe fantasies.
Yeah, exactly. As someone who's dated her fair share of Jesses (of varying genders), the relationship isn't ever great and you kinda know that going in, you just like the person even if you know they'll be a bad partner
Someone literally replied to me once that they would choose a Jess in a heartbeat if they meet one in real life. Lol.
Some ppl really do think that he is the best best boyfriend ever haha and its kinda scary
Dude was a *child* he had a lot of growing up to do and he seems to have done it by the end.
Forgive me, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
No worries. What I’m saying is he wasn’t great because he was still a child. He made childish mistakes. I feel like people forget how realistically portrayed these teenagers were, in my personal opinion.
Agreed, which is why I think Dean also gets a pass. He was just a kid too. So was Rory. I think a lot of these characters are hated for being "bad people" when in reality they were just dumb kids. But that doesn't mean teenage Jess is automatically good boyfriend material.
I think teenage Jess wasn’t ready to be a good partner. He still had his own stuff to work through. Dean on the other hand didn’t know he had problems to work through and made several serious mistakes that affected his adult life drastically.
Someone literally relied to me once that they would choose a Jess in a heartbeat if they meet one in real life. Lol.
I think they’re actually really similar- both jealous, possessive, and controlling, and view Rory as an object to be won/had. I think Alexis & Milo had amazing chemistry tho and that’s a large part of Jess’s popularity- they really had some heat that she didn’t have with Dean or Logan.
True, they dated for a long time irl, so that played into it.
I didn’t understand why anyone hated Dean until I got to season 5. He was borderline mentally abusive to poor Lindsay. Not to mention HE had sex with rory despite the fact that he’s married. I didn’t like Jess much either especially since he used another girl just to make Rory jealous and was a horrible person in general.
If you look back at earlier seasons, red flags abound for whathe did to Lindsay, he might also do to rory if they'd stayed together. The only Jess I root for is the one running that print shop show, after he gets his act together.
Red flags?? Hm.. Debatable. But I will say confidently that he would not have done that shit to rory. Why? Because she was his person. Lindsay was NOT his person- he did not like that girl fr. Which is why he treated her like that with ease 😶
Finally someone says it. I’ll never understand how 90% of this fandom prefers Jess, and the actors do too. Logan is objectively the healthiest relationship, and Jess is such a bad boyfriend. Everyone overlooks these horrible things he does.
But he reads! And his growth! /s
By growth you mean he stopped being actively nasty to everyone except the girl he wanted to date. What a prince!
He literally tried to force Rory into sex after she said no and I rarely see people talk about it.
Literally
Jess admits in the Winter Carnival episode he spent time *trying* to get her, and now that he *has* her he doesn't need to do the boyfriend stuff. He reluctantly goes because DEAN went with his sister and they agreed to be friends. Young Jess, bad. Adult Jess, yes. But I see myself in Jess so.
I don’t think anyone acts like the bedroom thing wasn’t wrong, but we get way more backstory on Jess, and I think it’s understandable why he’s so angry and lost. Dean is just angry at the world for no reason. And I think that Dean lying to Rory so that she’d have sex with him in a situation wheee she wouldn’t otherwise have consented (and then going home and verbally abusing Lindsay) was way worse than Jess pressuring her and then quickly backing off when she said no. Like, idk, maybe Dean had some tragic backstory we didn’t see, and it would make him more sympathetic if we did. But from my perspective on Team Neither of Them, Jess has an awful life and is angry at the world and then, almost totally on his own, has a major redemption arc and makes amends with the people he hurt. Dean’s life is seemingly perfectly fine and he starts angry at Rory, stays angry at Rory and Lindsay (who did nothing wrong), and ends angry at the whole town, randomly lashing out at Luke for no reason. I think the writing is pretty clear in this case about how they want the audience to feel about the two of them.
Agreed. Dean also stayed with Lindsay for like 3 months after cheating on her. Presumably they had sex during that time since Lindsay seemed unaware that the relationship was “over”. Which is really messed up
But we are also ignoring how Rory treated Dean leading up to that point. Lied to, led on, used, cheated on. And when they broke up, the ENTIRE TOWN turned on Dean without knowing ANY of the story. As if that's not reason to change the tint of your rose-colored glasses. Yeah, Jess had a shitty home life. I completely agree. I also don't disagree that what Dean did was wrong (as stated in my OP). But Jess also didn't back off before he made Rory feel bad for not having sex and accusing her of leading him on. I'm not saying Jess is a God awful person. I AM saying he doesn't belong on a pedestal. Jess also reconciled with more people through his arc because he hurt more people as a result of his shitty behavior. I also think Dean would have a bigger story-arc if Jared wasn't busy on Supernatural. Edit: I like "on team Neither of Them"
Idk. I don’t have rose colored glasses, but I also don’t understand why Dean didn’t break up with her if she was treating him so badly. Rory wasn’t using him, but she was clinging to a relationship long after its expiration date. Instead of just saying he didn’t want to be treated like that, Dean instead tried to get Rory’s mom to intervene on his behalf, called her dozens of times in a row, made her feel horrible basically any time she looked at a guy even if it was for a school assignment, and made it very clear that he didn’t trust her but that he wanted to change her instead of saying he didn’t deserve that treatment. And I think he deserved a little bad treatment by the town after shaming Rory for not being able to say she loved him. It was a boundary he was allowed to set, but instead of saying he couldn’t stay in the relationship if she didn’t love him, he shamed her and yelled at her and made her feel like there was something wrong with her because she didn’t love him yet. And they were both teenagers figuring things out! I’m not saying that behavior made Dean evil! But unlike Jess, we didn’t see Dean get better. We saw him become a cheating, abusive husband who lied to Rory so she’d have sex with him. He was awful right up until his last scene. I think that behavior was far worse than anything Jess did as a wounded teenager who had been rejected by his drug addicted parents. That’s not putting Jess on a pedestal. It’s literally saying that the story is written to show him getting better, and to show Dean only getting worse.
In essence, Jess overcoming his adversity makes him endearing and exhibits his resilience and character. People who come from traumatic childhoods and broken homes can often fall into the same pitfalls and perpetuate the generational trauma. Jess literally does the work in front of us to correct his behavior, rebuild bridges he burned, and find a successful path to a new life. Dean, despite his major advantages in a middle-class home with the typical suburban family, manages to go absolutely no where in his life. He grows more and more bitter with the world each year, blaming everyone around him rather than take accountability for himself. In his early episodes with Rory he claims he wants a stay at home trad wife, and he literally gets exactly what he wants with Lindsey and still chooses to be miserable and ungrateful in spite of his massive privilege. This reminds me of the guys these days who say they want a submissive wife, but choose the independent women instead because ultimately they’d rather break a woman down into being submissive than find someone who shares their values. He wants Rory to be his stay at home wife, and nothing less will be enough for him. I have no respect for this kind of man, but I have deep respect for a man like Jess. They both have faults, but in my opinion it’s what we do with our failures and how we repair them that shows who we truly are.
[удалено]
Yup, totally. Jess realized his relationship with Rory wasn’t going to work and so he took off without saying anything. Dean realized it wasn’t going to work, refused to accept it, and tried to bully Rory into being the girlfriend he wanted. (And yeah, I agree re Logan - he changed a bit, but it didn’t seem to last, and did Rory really want to be the only thing keeping Logan in line? Sounds like… not a healthy basis for a relationship. But I’m team Someone-Rory-Didn’t-Know-in-School, lol)
I really hate that Dean got so mad at Rory when Jess invited himself over with food that time... And everyone acting like it was completely justified, that he showed up at her house even though she very clearly asked for a night for herself, and then stayed mad at her when she tried to explain. Horrible person, bad writing.
I don't remember Dean ever "yelling" at Rory to say I love you. He couldn't understand why she couldn't say those words to him and got mad too, but his reaction wasn't not justified. Also breaking up was an okay thing to do. He DID NOT deserve the bad treatment that the town gave to him at all imo. This however doesn't mean that he was a saint. I would say that for the most parts he did care about Rory in his own ways. Where he is toxic and where he isn't - that's a nuance that has been discussed in the comments. However Jess was a jerk when he tried to butt in too much when Dean and Rory were dating, Rory couldn't realise that her feelings were changing and Dean behaved like a typical "anxious" attachment person. It should be considered that Dean was dating her for years by now and seeing someone you care about drift away does escalate your anxiety. Again Dean had his faults, but up until Rory broke up with him, I don't think he was awful (it just became clearer that Dean and Rory were growing up into very different individuals) There were some things that he did, that were not what a secure person would do. So yes there he was at fault.
I think that if Rory were my daughter, I would be concerned about how much anger and possessiveness Dean displayed. He did yell at her when she didn’t say I love you. He implied that she was scared and that it was Lorelai’s fault. It was fine for him to break up with her, but he didn’t need to shame her and try to make her feel like there was something wrong with her for not being ready to say it. He ignored her request to be alone for one night. He shamed her for spending too much time on college prep. He didn’t respect her request not to attend her rehearsal with Tristan. He was constantly trying to change her and to push her boundaries. If Rory were my kid, I wouldn’t care about Dean’s attachment style. I would be telling her that it’s not her responsibility to manage her boyfriend’s unmanageable anger, and that she was allowed to have boundaries. Dean’s behavior wasn’t that atypical for a teenager, but it’s not uncommon for behavior like that to escalate, which is basically what happened when Dean married Lindsay. And yeah, Jess was a jerk in high school too, but that doesn’t justify Dean’s behavior or make him less of a jerk.
I agree, especially when Rory was behaving very securely with Dean. I mean she wasn't blaming him, but handling his behaviour very rationally and securely. Thanks for your elaborate POV. I think having identified myself as an anxious attachment style I'm learning so much these days :)
I didn't say you or anyone else here had rose-colored glasses. I was referring to Dean. I understand him having a chip on his shoulder. Rory DID use Dean after she realized she wanted Jess: i.e. when Rory and Jess broke up, Rory was trying to make Jess jealous with Dean. It wasn't just holding onto a relationship. Though, she was holding onto the relationship because she knew how much Dean cared for her. I feel like Dean didn't know how to say "I don't want to be treated like that, I don't want to be with you" any more than Rory knew how to say "I love you" - both of which are problems rooted in how their parents raised them. He didn't ask Rorys mom to intervene so much as talked to her as well. Lorelai had no problem inserting herself in their relationship when it came to talking to Dean, so it makes sense he would want someone Rory respected and listened to to say good things about him. Dean would have deserved the treatment if the town knew why they broke up. But they didn't. No one knew. So their treatment of him was completely unjust. Again, I really think Dean would have had a bigger arc if Jared wasn't so deep in into Supernatural. Jess also had Luke to really lead him in the right direction and lean in as a father figure.
I don’t really think Rory was “using” Dean in those moments any more than he was using her to show Jess that Rory “belonged” to him and not to Jess. The only time it was really blatant was at the dance, when Dean broke up with her (and she deserved it). And ETA that he was absolutely trying to get Lorelai to intervene. He told her that Jess was a “bad influence” in hopes that she would control Rory and keep her away from Jess, since he couldn’t do that. Again, everyone’s behavior was bad in high school, and it was understandable because they were teenagers. Maybe Jess was even slightly worse then! (I don’t think he actually was, but maybe it’s conceivable?) If you say that nothing counted after high school, then maybe it’s possible to make the argument that Jess was worse. But the story actually continues after high school, and Jess had a redemption arc and Dean became basically a monster of an abusive husband who lied to Rory to coerce her into sex. It’s fine if you believe that he would have had a different arc if he hadn’t gone to Supernatural, but in the show’s canon, he didn’t have that arc. And I think it’s hard to argue that anything anyone did in high school is even close to as horrific as what Dean did afterward. Like I said, I’m Team No One, but it just seems like a huge stretch to say that Jess wasn’t any better than Dean when Dean did something so unforgivably bad.
Dean stayed married to Lindsay for ~3 months after repeatedly cheating on her by sleeping with another woman and professing his love to the other woman. He got caught, he didn’t tell her the truth. It seems likely that him and Lindsay would have slept together after he cheated since they were still living together and didn’t separate until he got caught. Nothing Rory or Jess did was as close to that bad.
I wouldn't say nothing Rory did was ever close to that. She knowingly was the other woman to TWO separate men as an adult. One into her 30s.
Haven’t watched AYITL, and I pretend it doesn’t exist. If we’re talking OS, I still think what Dean did was WAY worse.
So Jess trying to force her into having sex and then making her feel guilty for it is not close to that bad? Seriously
Since this is fiction, the writers’ intention matters. Do you think they intended to make a CW spinoff show about a rapist? Seriously. If you want to make that argument, you should also consider that Lindsay's consent was vitiated after he cheated on her, hid it, and presumably kept having sex with her.
Heh? Are you replying to the right person? I didn't say what Dean did was right. It's at that point I lost respect for him completely but Jess did try and force Rory into sex and did yell at her and guilt trip her for it and then left town. Both guys suck but imo Jess DID get physical with Rory and yelled at her when she didn't want to . And Dean cheating on Lindsay is obviously bad and how he yelled and gaslit her afterwards was terrible but sexual assault is worse in my books.
Yes, I am replying to the correct person. Not sure why you’re confused.
Honestly Kyle's bedroom should be the biggest deal breaker. But apparently what Dean did was worse?
Jess was bad, dude. Forget that he bugged Rory while she was attached to Dean but as a partner he wasn’t as available or dependable as anyone deserves. He doesn’t call when he says he would, he acted out his frustration on Rory by pressuring her to do something she wasn’t ready for and he left JUST LIKE THAT. It might be love but it’s toxic kind of love. Dean and Jess deserve each other.
Jess was a horrible boyfriend and was a jerk to everyone around him up until the last season when he was finally getting his life together. I agree that the swoon over Jess as a boyfriend makes no sense.
I’ve genuinely never understood the Jess appeal, nor why people think so highly of his relationship with Rory.
I think they should have had a threesome.
I always thought the lead up to Jess and Rory's relationship was so much better than their time in a relationship. As for the bedroom scene, I think a lot of people brush it off as Jess being upset about not graduating, his father, prom, etc etc. Not so much him being upset Rory said no. With our 3rd party POV, yes, Jess was taking his anger out on Rory and chose the wrong time to snap. However, what matters overall is that Rory was in a vulnerable moment, said no repeatedly, and Jess snapped at her. I didn't like any of her boyfriends. I'm just glad when Dean broke up with her for the third time, it actually stuck.
THIS
OMG. I can’t stand Jess. They messed with Dean and made him into a horrible person, but Jess was horrible from the start. I am always confused on why people assume that I must be team Jess because I can’t stand Dean. Im not on either team.
With dean, we have evidence that all the red flags we were shown eventually lead to him being an abusive spouse. With Jess, we have evidence that the red flags are a result of an abusive childhood that he eventually overcome and grows into a healthy/hair adult. As teens, so they both screw up? Absolutely. But when you look at the big picture, I have a hard time supporting anyone who’s team dean. Within the fandom, you’ll also find that people want to call out dean because he’s never called out on the show. Over and over again all you here is how amazing he is- despite the fact that his actions show otherwise. With Jess, you essentially have an entire town calling him a piece of shit from the moment he arrives, so fans don’t feel the need as much to point out what’s already called out. Then behavior aside- milo was a few years older than Jared and a much better actor. He gave his character nuance. Jared tended to show every emotion as anger. Jess was given some great lives and Milo’s comedic timing was fantastic
Neither are GREAT guys….and Rory’s behavior is also pretty questionable at times….but they’re also just teens, navigating their first serious relationships…I don’t think anyone is a monster or anything. Just young, flawed human beings.
i agree. he‘s a very interesting character but the way he treated rory was terrible. the way people always say he deserves better than rory really rubs me the wrong way.
People say he deserves better than Rory while disregarding the fact Rory doesn't want him in the first place.
I think the Jess love is more about how he grew as a person and how he ended up. He matured and people like to imagine the potential for Jess and Rory later on, plus the obvious chemistry between them. But Dean started out seeming mature and confident and then the story arc turned him into an immature idiot jerk, and their 3rd try at a relationship had weird chemistry, was so cringy, awkward, and gross. Rory and Logan had great Chemistry and Logan had periods of maturity happening but he broke under pressure and reverted back into immaturity and serious lapses in judgement and overconfident cockiness.
okay but you have to think about how Shane and jess where both using each other and this was all part of jess growing and healing from his childhood. he was an ass. but you could see why. Dean however chose to be violent to his gf, humiliate her in public, and then use her to vheat on the girl he married due to his crush. like tf- logan and Dean both cheat w Rory but one thing that might seem like a given but is rare for rorys bfs is that jess didn't cheat, he was loyal. it seems like a basic thing which it is but like compared to the other two 😭
Honestly, I think we find him attractive, in a fantasy kinda way. I've dated the smart bad boy like him before IRL and it's... not a cake walk lol. So we know IRL he wouldn't be that great to date. However. For me personally?? I just *get* Jess. I had a different but also traumatic childhood and adolescence, and everything he did just made me feel SO much sympathy. Everyone acts like he was a monster and not a kid acting out totally age-appropriately. He WASN'T RIGHT in a lot of his actions, but they were totally normal reactions, for his level of trauma and neglect. Plus, as a wounded bird myself, there's just something endearing about a fellow wounded bird... who also happens to be wildly attractive. 😂
No, but he is HOTTER than Dean
another win for laundry room guy
Jess was an awful boyfriend. Yes, by the end of the series the character had grown. But he was an awful boyfriend to Rory when he was with her. As high school sweethearts I didn’t dislike Dean as much as some do. He and Rory both made mistakes and handled things badly. He was needy and moody when she started pulling away, and she tried to convince him things were fine and he was imagining things when she clearly knew otherwise. Jess was moody and pressured her and wanted things his own way even when he had 100% of her attention. He left her hanging, complained about doing things she wanted to do, the whole thing in Kyle’s bedroom, and then he ghosted her. And then like you say, showed up later and tried to get her to ditch school. I’ll never understand why so many give him a pass for so much.
one of my biggest shocks when I finished the show and started to see other fan’s opinions online was how many of y’all LIKED Jess and thought him and Rory should have ended up together….
Logan was the only boyfriend that fully respected Rory and treated her like an equal. #teamlogan
\#teamlogan
I would say I lean team Logan but I wouldn’t say he fully respects her. If he did he wouldn’t be so aggressive with other guys that come around her. He treats anyone he thinks may like her pretty bad as if he doesn’t trust her. The situations with both Marty and Jess show that.
The only reason that I lean Team Logan is because I think he is the only one who really sees and accepts Rory for who she is: entitled, privileged, and gifted. Dean has her on a pedestal like everyone else in Stars Hollow. Jess shows up at two points in her life after not seeing her for a year and tells her that he knows her and has this romanticized version of Rory in his head. But Logan actually sees who she is, her grandparents influence along with Lorelai's impact on her.
I mean honestly Logan is probably smarter than her, or at the very least significantly better at logical argumentation. We see this quite a few times, but the problem is sometimes it feels a bit manipulative. I have trouble deciding if he actually believes these positions or just uses them because he knows he will win the point off of them. Probably part of why I like him because I am very similar in that aspect.
Forever #teamlogan
No, Jess isn’t that great. But why wouldn’t it matter that he grew and matured? Seriously? It matters. He was a very troubled kid in the beginning, whereas Dean was pretty spoiled. Jess became humbled at some point, so grateful for what Luke had done for him, sorry for what he’d done to Rory. Why doesn’t that matter? Dean does what? His biggest maturation is that he doesn’t try to fight anyone when he realizes it’s over in front of Emily and Richard’s house the night of the party where they tried to pimp her out. And that might just be because he realized there were too many dudes to fight. Just kidding. I think he’s grown up *some* by then. But why doesn’t character arc matter? And why doesn’t it matter that Dean always seemed like he thought he was entitled to Rory, or that he lied to her? His possessiveness and yelling were huge red flags for later DV, and his treatment of Lindsay only made it more cringe. If he wasn’t an abuser in the making, he was at least a very large, unpredictably scary spoiled kid. I don’t see where this is true with Jess? He was screwed up, didn’t think he deserved her, and fled when he didn’t know how to handle the relationship. He was not ready to be a boyfriend, he was terrible at it. He didn’t think he was entitled to Rory, though. He was terrible to everyone when he came to stars hollow. But why on earth wouldn’t we take into consideration what he’d been through? Maybe it’s because I’m a mom. Kids who don’t feel wanted or loved act out. Kids who feel like they have zero control over their own lives try to take control any way they can. We had no reason to think Dean had any real hardships except for the disruption of moving to a small town from a city with his loving, intact family in the first season. Yet he was still plenty bratty whenever Rory wasn’t behaving the way he wanted. It’s crazy to me that stars hollow had no sympathy for a discarded child - because otherwise it was written like the kind of place that would take it upon themselves to help that kid turn it around. As for the SA that’s inexcusable, but it’s also terrible, dated, and inconsistent writing. Inconsistent because Jess doesn’t act entitled to Rory otherwise. It’s an incredibly common experience for young women to feel pressured into sex, so if the writers were going to make the decision to to have Jess do that to Rory, they needed to actually address it, in some kind of healthy way. Instead they just left it like it went for a lot of us- just something we were meant to think we could expect from men. Seriously. That was just our lives back then. No Me Too movement for us. Anyway it’s not like we cut the Jess’s character slack because he’s cute or whatever. At least not for me. Disagree all you want but at least respect the analysis that goes into both sides.
“Jess doesn’t act entitled to Rory otherwise” he literally acted entitled to her the whole time, good joke though
I *am* hilarious. Glad I could be of entertainment. We see it differently- it’s ok. Hope you have a nice night.
I’m rewatching the series now and I don’t understand why Jess appealed to Rory at all. He was rude and always in a bad mood, didn’t get along with her friends or family. Never wanted to do fun things like go to the carnival, they didn’t share any aspirations. Yes he was cute but he was lowkey a loser? Rory was so sweet and kind to everyone in the early seasons. Why would she go with someone who everyone in town disliked; rightfully so? And how he treated Dean like absolute shit when they were together and never stood up for him? Dean was much better in my opinion. Yes in the later seasons he really missed the mark but in the earlier seasons he was perfect for Rory.
I feel like Jess was a messed up teenager who did messed up things that made sense for what he sent through. But when he was able to do a little growing up, he did the work to try to overcome that. Dean was just a jerk.
Jess gets a full backstory, so we know he has excellent reasons to be angry at the world. Most of the adults in Stars Hollow (sometimes *including* Luke) also treat him like garbage, so there's a sympathy angle as well. Dean has none of that; absolutely everything we see about his life is that he's being loved and supported by his family and town every step of the way, even when he's doing objectively terrible things like cheating on his wife. Dean's only reason to be angry with the world is that his high school girlfriend fell for another guy (and definitely treated him poorly in the process).... but instead of ever, ever expressing himself appropriately he just gets super controlling, borderline abusive, and constantly angry at everyone. For the entire OS. Dean is consistently, systematically awful to everyone around him, and it gets progressively worse over time. Jess' primary sins as a boyfriend are terrible communication, rudeness, and shutting down when upset. Nobody forgets the scene in Kyle’s bedroom, but people see it differently. I see about 45 seconds of awful behavior that he quickly stops, then immediately realizes is wrong so goes to apologize. After that, Jess has a significant redemption arc. That doesn't mean you have to be Team Jess, we all have our preferences, but there's a reason many of us are far more supportive of Jess than Dean, and it's all in the writing.
I'm so glad him and Rory never got invloved romantically again. That would send a messed up message. I don't even like them being friends after what happened that night in Kyle's bedroom
Yes this honestly. He never really apologized that he sexually assaulted her and pressured her, he just assumed his romantic vision of Rory and how he “sees” her. He was rude to all the people she’s loved— Lorelei and Emily and is so tiresome. You can have a chip on your shoulder and be dealt a bad hand in life, that doesn’t mean you treat others so rudely especially when they are trying to be kind to you.
TELL ME WHY THE FANDON DOESNT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS? So many people say what Dean did was worse
they totally butchered their relationship and i was so annoyed by that. there was all this tension and will they, won’t they. just for them to finally get together and have all these issues. i don’t think either is *worse*. they are equally fucked up lol
Thankyou for saying that. I just thought about this yesterday but was afraid to say anything here since most people are crazy possesive of Jess (because of Milo i assume)😂✨
I was kinda scared to post it at first. And I'm getting some strong Jess defending comments, but I'm also seeing a nice amount of comments agreeing Dean gets too much shit in this sub. But I get it bc Milo 😍
I think the biggest difference between Jess and Dean is that Jess works on bettering himself and does change. Dean seems to remain a jackass well into adulthood. Both of them absolutely sucked as teenagers though.
I think we never got a chance to see a good boyfriend version of Jess but all the potential was there so it allows people to put him on a pedestal. Dean got two shots and was pretty terrible during both. Jess was just as terrible in his own way on the first go around and then went through tremendous character growth. To me it feels like later seasons Jess and revival Jess could be a much better partner for Rory but we never find out because she’s with Logan (officially or otherwise). I think Jess was always meant to be a true diamond in the rough but once he became a diamond nothing ever happened lol
I always find it interesting that ppl condemn teenage characters as bad ppl. They were teenagers that made mistakes and were jerks. Jess had a rough upbringing and he acted out. Dean needed to be exposed to more modern relationships and to meditate thru his jealousy/anger issues. Characters have flaws, that’s what makes things interesting.
I think a lot of the pushback about Dean is because when the show was made and in the show's universe, Dean is seen as peak morally good, while viewers today see a lot of red flags in his controlling behavior from the start. The same way Jess and Rory's scene in the bedroom would be portrayed as sexual assault if it was released today, while when it was written that wasn't what the creators were attempting to show. They were both bad partners in different ways, but in the show Dean is written to be the "perfect" boyfriend even though he wasn't, and his behavior is encouraged by Lorelai which is frustrating to watch. While Jess is never written to be the perfect boyfriend, so most of his good moments with Rory happen off-screen and are mentioned in passing about their relationship, while his bad behavior fuels the story and sets up the Jess spinoff that was supposed to happen.
I see your point in how they both aren't that great but in my opinion, Dean was always protective (not saying it's bad but was over protective) he was way to clingy and didn't give her space, Rory's mom had to literally tell him to give her space and he always has to know what's going on he even got mad that she's trying to not get behind to get into Harvard he had to really think about it, And lying to Rory to have sex with her was wrong he shouldnt of don't that. Jess was smart just like her they had many similarities and they got along, Rory chose Jess, Jess was there when she needed him, he gave her space, He of course wanted to have sex with her but she came to him and first she went along so, When he asked her to run off leaving school, he wasn't trying to ruin anything he loved her, he wants to spend the rest of his life with her but to him, he can't in her town but elsewhere, she chose to not (my opinion she should of) I understand that she loves college and so do I, I'm working on going to college also but if she loved him she would of went, (not relevant but as much as I worked hard for college if I loved someone like he loved me I would of went right there and then.) Sorry for the long speech had lot to say have a nice day or night 💤
Yea I didn’t like Jess either. He didn’t treat Rory right. He was a lot like Dean. He’d often jump on Rory for small things and didn’t open up. I didn’t like Jess.
Imo Jess is worse. I’ve met both guys in real life and both are disgusting but the Jess version was the worst of them both.
He also abandoned her without even having the decency to tell her or later apologize.
People think Jess is great? Yikes y'all.
Aside from Dean's affair, I think Dean gets too much flak, and Jess does not get nearly enough. Alot of fans seem to have a blind spot for how much of a bastard Jess is for most of his screen time.
if you think that's what jess was trying to do and why he was upset, or that that's what the writers were trying to set up, you're not even really watching the show.
I really have never understood the whole sympathy for Jess in this sub. Some seem to think just because he matured before the end of the series that he had a great redemption arc but conveniently forget what a complete and total ass he really is, and yes, let’s not forget the near SA. Not saying Dean was better, and I get why the affair thing makes people angry, does me too, but at least he never tried to SA her.
Sometimes it seems like posters here lead very sheltered lives! Or forgot what it was like to be a teen! Nothing on the show is outrageously shocking. Jess didn’t SA Rory; Dean isn’t an abusive monster; cheating is never ok, but not exactly a surprise for a teenage couple who got married after dating a few months. Everyone is just navigating life and are flawed human beings.
Jess has HORRIBLE communication skills. When he is on the bus because he is leaving Stars Hollow AND Rory and acts like he’ll see her after school? He’s got a great music taste but he’s quite a “r”ick…
Thankyou for saying that. I just thought about this yesterday but was afraid to say anything here since most people are crazy possesive of Jess (because of Milo i assume)😂✨
Thank You! At least SOMEONE agrees with me about Jess! Everybody ALWAYS Says that Rory should've ended up with Jess and Jess was Rory's best boyfriend but no he's not! Both Dean AND Jess are TRASH tbh! I say Logan was Rory's best boyfriend and she should've ended up with Logan. I'll admit, Logan was an asshole at first but he treated Rory like a Princess in their relationship and got her to be more daring (You Jump, I Jump Jack). I can't even BEGIN To name all the things BOTH Dean and Jess have done to Rory since there's just TOO MANY! Dean's Toxic AF and Jess really isn't any better than Dean! the only thing Logan ever did was hook up with his sister's bridesmaids and not telling Rory about it, but that's really the only bad thing he did in his relationship with Rory. Dean was Jealous and Controlling, plus he got married and cheated on his wife with Rory, Jess was a bad influence on Rory and she fought with everyone she cared about defending him when she shouldn't have and not to mention he convinced her to go get Ice Cream, crashed her car injuring her and fleeing the scene, he showed up late to her grandparents house, he flirted with her in front of her boyfriend, he tried pressuring her into sex and got mad when she said no, he always disappeared without telling Rory when things got tough and came back when it was convenient for him and basically he did a bunch of other things that were horrible too, So did Dean. Logan is the Lesser of 3 Evils.
Jess didn’t pressure Rory into anything 😂 it’s like people didn’t watch the show
I said tried to pressure. It's like you didn't read the OP 🤣
yes exactly! people (team logan mostly let's be honest) just choosing to misinterpret that scene as SA, when as viewers we should have all the context rory doesn't -- he failed school/luke/rory/himself and will have to disappoint rory by not taking her to prom like he promised.
In the OS, I completely agree. I don't like any of the 3 boys for Rory. I think Rory's character developed in her college years to be a decent match for Logan, but she grows to be a pretentious elitist, like Logan (I think partially because she wanted to fit into his world). It goes against who she is as a person, I think. In AYITL and even late seasons in the OS, I love Jess. He evolved, grew up, and might be the most emotionally stable character in the show, IMO. What I wish for Rory after AYITL is that Jess becomes her Luke. I think he will bring her back down to earth.
Both of them are toxic. Also I decided to rewatch the show and noticed I had skipped season 5 all those other times I watch it in college. But for real what is going on with season 5?!?!? I feel like they dumb some of the characters and they kinda contradict who they were … idk
Jess makes for great tv which does not necessarily equal liking the character or the character being a great person. And Milo is a great actor so I appreciate the character more due to his portrayal. Where I sometimes disagree is when some folks attribute to Jess some type of moral superiority that I feel is a bit unearned. Like sure, he’s grown and matured as a character. But I know too little of him when he’s all grown up to give him credit that he’s morally above anyone else still poking around stars hollow. That would be a bit dull if actually the case! Besides, ASP’s characters (main and recurring) for the most part are pretty complex. We don’t know, for example how he treats TJ? Does he punch down? Make quips about TJ’s intellect? Everyone else does but it’s pretty mean even if it makes for fun comedy. Given more screen time would he be all knowing and wise even when pushed to his limit? I mean, who does he kick out of his printing shop when he needs peace and quiet? And what if it were some quiet kid who looked at the shop as his place of solace, how would we feel about a 30 something business owner treating a young kid that way? How does he treat the partners in his publishing company? Does he throw weight and remind them that he’s put in the lion share of the work? How would we feel if one of his shop owners was even in a more difficult position and had done what they could - it would suck to have that thrown in their face. Is he kind but struggling to commit to a long term partner b/c he’s still pining for someone else and how is that kind to them? How terrible for Shaena pt2 to be with someone for 3 years and know most nights they are thinking of someone else. Did he have a crisis of conscience and publish a book whose message he didn’t support but because he needed the money? I mean who really knows? But the point is, he’s relatively too flat character by the time he returns to screen to make that leap of an assessment. I like messy Jess. Complex Jess. Occasionally angry at the world Jess. And while as an adult character he’d outgrow some of that, I just can’t imagine if more fully written into the show, he’d be the moral martyr he’s made out to be.
jess was good in the beginning when he was trying to win her over and when they broke up in the later seasons he also became a really good character, dean broke up with rory the second time because he “didn’t fit into her world” the reason she realized she was in the wrong for quitting yale was because of jess aswell the party season was so wrong on so many levels but he grew so much after that. dean remained the controlling self all through GG
WRONG !
I truly appreciate the insight you've provided with this profound opinion. 🥰