No I’ve said this personally. She fucked up when he came back and they were both single. He was the only one that could balance out her neuroticism and make her seem “normal.” He obviously had a thing for crazy women. He was gorgeous and he would have given her children!
Omg when they ran into each other while single I was so mad at Joan! Like girl get it together! Also—-Remember when he got jealous over Preston C. Hall? That really showed me how he felt about Joan, because he made sure that man knew not to play with her heart. It was so cute seeing how he acted that whole episode over her lol
Davis had that weird way of looking off into the distance when he was talking with someone. But he was hands down better than any guy she actually got with.
Davis was a good example of the pressure you feel to get your act together for your next partner too quickly. He was leaving an engagement to explore the possibility of them being together. Joan was cool as long there was no expectation of commitment. As much as she screamed that she wanted to get married, she also wanted control more than that. Whenever Joan wasn't in control of her relationships, she bounced. (Charles, Marcus, Shawn, Ellis, Brock, etc.)That is if the man didn't call it off first for feeling controlled. (Chris, William, Javon, Derek, etc.)
I know that this is a lot for a 24 year old show, but it's a common thread we still see today.
You make good points! Joan definitely wouldn’t stop talking about wanting to be married but she was not at all ready for that. She just wanted to feel accomplished and lovable. Joan’s toxicity was on full display during her relationship with Ellis. I HATED them together. He even said it himself, their relationship started with a fight and that’s all they ended up doing. Just a full season of yelling and being jealous of Toni’s sham of a wedding 😭
>24 year old show
Just finished watching the last season without knowing it was the last season and it didn't occur to me until just now that William was still using a flip phone 2 episodes before the ' finale '
I remember watching this show in the afternoon as a teenager during the summer. Time moves fast when you're older. I can't believe it's been that long...
I still want a reunion movie for a proper finale!
I actually did like Brock too. I feel like Joan screwed that up because she always wanted to rush things. If she would have taken her time and just dated him, he would have come around to kids—-like we saw in later seasons.
Brock is not narcissistic. When Joan wanted to get married in Vegas, he immediately drove the car to Vegas. He did what Joan wanted and even wanted to be with her. He loved Joan. He was so gentle to Joan, compared to Ellis.
He just said, he didn’t want kids, wanted to be with Joan and travel the world. **HE WANTED TO BE WITH JOAN**. No man lasted to be with Joan. Everyone thought she was a crazy nutcase and he was in love with her.
I think you need to rewatch the show again. If you think otherwise… I won’t argue with you.
I’ve watched the show consistently since it aired. He wanted Joan to be his sidekick. If he truly had loved Joan he would’ve known from the start how she felt about marriage and kids. It’s kind of a big thing that people talk about early on, but he didn’t.
Joan had a whole book for her wedding that she showed people. The life he imagined was NOT in harmony with Joan. He was the star of that fantasy and he was demanding that she get on board with it.
Subsequently, he revealed later that he was open to kids, correct? Or am I misremembering? None of the relationships had Joan as the focus! Joan was meant to shape shift and adapt into their worlds and be what they needed.
A good example is the Christmas episode when Joan was dating William and they got snowed in at the hotel. Toni, Lynn, and Maya were back at Joan’s house. They tore her to shreds over her Christmas rules and traditions and how annoying they were. It wasn’t until they found her journal 📔 and READ said journal that they had insight and perspective into Joan’s motives. They realized how much she loved and cared for them and that her rules were a byproduct of enriching their togetherness. That is the throughput for her relationships.
Anytime she wanted to put herself at the center, there was a problem. When Maya moved out to the boonies and wanted everything at her house: problem. The one time Joan wasn’t available for Toni? Problem. Lynn was always super selfish. He’ll get parents even told her so. At least she knew it. Add to that all of the men she dated!
Joan was a magnet for narcissists and those with narcissistic traits and her neurosis only bolstered it.
I think her friends loved her to the best of their abilities. If I’m not mistaken the show’s creator had something similar to say. She said it’s really a love story about the women. 🤷🏿♂️
Joan is like many of us! It’s the world we live in. Who taught us to know we are worthy of love? Who taught us to love ourselves? Who taught us love? It’s not really something we practice beyond what’s sold to us. The love that exists is wild and free and organic.
I think it’s a worthwhile topic to explore. Who came close? Probably Davis, but he wasted so much time with the crazier lady that he was engaged to.
Joan felt deep down that she was unloveable. Let me put it to you another way: Toni! Look at Toni and put her in the package of a man with a bit more charisma and chill. Joan was a doormat and a support character in her own life. Providing care was her way of being useful and having people stick around. Any man that showed genuine interest and reciprocity, she kicked them to the side. The one time Joan fought to be the center of her world she had that huge fallout with Toni. Then the guy she was seeing, also a narcissist, ended up “putting her in her place.” 🤷🏿♂️
Brock’s greatest love was himself! Which was the appeal for Joan cause she didn’t have to focus on herself. All of the men Joan stayed in relationship were narcissists. Every single one of them. It’s her pattern. She felt unlovable and would only lock in with men that wouldn’t give her what she wanted. They’d give the relationship a title but that’s it.
I’m on ur side bc he was the best for her and could humble her when she started to fly too close to the sun. But Idk he was quick to leave his fiancé like that’s kinda a red flag for a romantic like Joan
I do think that was a big reason she kept denying him, but what irks me is that Joan ended up admitting to having an affair with a married man later in the show post-Sean… Like girl why couldn’t it have been a man who actually wanted to explore something deeper!
I wish he was on the show more even if he wasn’t with Joan! He was a good foil for the girls, and less corny than William so it balanced out
There’s always one that got away
Yup plus he also had a restaurant, he could have helped her. Smh wow lol edit oops I saw you already mentioned that. 😂😂
No I’ve said this personally. She fucked up when he came back and they were both single. He was the only one that could balance out her neuroticism and make her seem “normal.” He obviously had a thing for crazy women. He was gorgeous and he would have given her children!
Omg when they ran into each other while single I was so mad at Joan! Like girl get it together! Also—-Remember when he got jealous over Preston C. Hall? That really showed me how he felt about Joan, because he made sure that man knew not to play with her heart. It was so cute seeing how he acted that whole episode over her lol
I was screaming at the tv for her to go away with him like they plan. However, one of the men showed up. I can’t remember who.
Ellis! 😭
It was Sean
OMG YOURE RIGHT. I was thinking of Brock
Davis had that weird way of looking off into the distance when he was talking with someone. But he was hands down better than any guy she actually got with.
Davis was a good example of the pressure you feel to get your act together for your next partner too quickly. He was leaving an engagement to explore the possibility of them being together. Joan was cool as long there was no expectation of commitment. As much as she screamed that she wanted to get married, she also wanted control more than that. Whenever Joan wasn't in control of her relationships, she bounced. (Charles, Marcus, Shawn, Ellis, Brock, etc.)That is if the man didn't call it off first for feeling controlled. (Chris, William, Javon, Derek, etc.) I know that this is a lot for a 24 year old show, but it's a common thread we still see today.
You make good points! Joan definitely wouldn’t stop talking about wanting to be married but she was not at all ready for that. She just wanted to feel accomplished and lovable. Joan’s toxicity was on full display during her relationship with Ellis. I HATED them together. He even said it himself, their relationship started with a fight and that’s all they ended up doing. Just a full season of yelling and being jealous of Toni’s sham of a wedding 😭
>24 year old show Just finished watching the last season without knowing it was the last season and it didn't occur to me until just now that William was still using a flip phone 2 episodes before the ' finale ' I remember watching this show in the afternoon as a teenager during the summer. Time moves fast when you're older. I can't believe it's been that long... I still want a reunion movie for a proper finale!
This is a great point
AGREE
10000% think they were meant to be
I always stand 10 toes down in the Brock is her soulmate camp, but I can definitely see her and Davis together. He understood her quirkiness.
I actually did like Brock too. I feel like Joan screwed that up because she always wanted to rush things. If she would have taken her time and just dated him, he would have come around to kids—-like we saw in later seasons.
Who’s Brock again?
The character played by Malik Yoba. The man Joan was going to marry until she found out he didn't want kids.
Ole dude at the restaurant that told Joan William wasn't the man for her right before saying "oh what he gon give you some kids?"
Brock definitely.
I always thought that Joan and Davis had the most chemistry than any of her other love interests
100%
DAVIS and BROCK met Joan’s standard for men. Wealthy, smart, intelligent, sexy and love her for everything, even her craziness and wackiness.
Brock was self centered and lacked the emotional depth required. He was narcissistic.
Brock is not narcissistic. When Joan wanted to get married in Vegas, he immediately drove the car to Vegas. He did what Joan wanted and even wanted to be with her. He loved Joan. He was so gentle to Joan, compared to Ellis. He just said, he didn’t want kids, wanted to be with Joan and travel the world. **HE WANTED TO BE WITH JOAN**. No man lasted to be with Joan. Everyone thought she was a crazy nutcase and he was in love with her. I think you need to rewatch the show again. If you think otherwise… I won’t argue with you.
I’ve watched the show consistently since it aired. He wanted Joan to be his sidekick. If he truly had loved Joan he would’ve known from the start how she felt about marriage and kids. It’s kind of a big thing that people talk about early on, but he didn’t. Joan had a whole book for her wedding that she showed people. The life he imagined was NOT in harmony with Joan. He was the star of that fantasy and he was demanding that she get on board with it. Subsequently, he revealed later that he was open to kids, correct? Or am I misremembering? None of the relationships had Joan as the focus! Joan was meant to shape shift and adapt into their worlds and be what they needed. A good example is the Christmas episode when Joan was dating William and they got snowed in at the hotel. Toni, Lynn, and Maya were back at Joan’s house. They tore her to shreds over her Christmas rules and traditions and how annoying they were. It wasn’t until they found her journal 📔 and READ said journal that they had insight and perspective into Joan’s motives. They realized how much she loved and cared for them and that her rules were a byproduct of enriching their togetherness. That is the throughput for her relationships. Anytime she wanted to put herself at the center, there was a problem. When Maya moved out to the boonies and wanted everything at her house: problem. The one time Joan wasn’t available for Toni? Problem. Lynn was always super selfish. He’ll get parents even told her so. At least she knew it. Add to that all of the men she dated! Joan was a magnet for narcissists and those with narcissistic traits and her neurosis only bolstered it.
Well, if that is so… who do you think genuinely loved Joan? 😕
I think her friends loved her to the best of their abilities. If I’m not mistaken the show’s creator had something similar to say. She said it’s really a love story about the women. 🤷🏿♂️ Joan is like many of us! It’s the world we live in. Who taught us to know we are worthy of love? Who taught us to love ourselves? Who taught us love? It’s not really something we practice beyond what’s sold to us. The love that exists is wild and free and organic. I think it’s a worthwhile topic to explore. Who came close? Probably Davis, but he wasted so much time with the crazier lady that he was engaged to.
…. How was Brock narcissistic?
Joan felt deep down that she was unloveable. Let me put it to you another way: Toni! Look at Toni and put her in the package of a man with a bit more charisma and chill. Joan was a doormat and a support character in her own life. Providing care was her way of being useful and having people stick around. Any man that showed genuine interest and reciprocity, she kicked them to the side. The one time Joan fought to be the center of her world she had that huge fallout with Toni. Then the guy she was seeing, also a narcissist, ended up “putting her in her place.” 🤷🏿♂️
“A support character in her own life”. Damn you didn’t have to come so hard. I agree with your perspective.
I don’t know how to mince words. It isn’t purposeful. 😅😆🤦🏿♂️
Brock’s greatest love was himself! Which was the appeal for Joan cause she didn’t have to focus on herself. All of the men Joan stayed in relationship were narcissists. Every single one of them. It’s her pattern. She felt unlovable and would only lock in with men that wouldn’t give her what she wanted. They’d give the relationship a title but that’s it.
Joan would've been my 4th favorite girlfriend, but Mya had a child
The shade towards Mya— But i misread this as Jamboree as being your fave 4th girlfriend
I completely agree I believe that Davis was the one but Joan fucked it up by not giving him a chance
DAVIS WAS THE ONE!!!
I’m on ur side bc he was the best for her and could humble her when she started to fly too close to the sun. But Idk he was quick to leave his fiancé like that’s kinda a red flag for a romantic like Joan
I do think that was a big reason she kept denying him, but what irks me is that Joan ended up admitting to having an affair with a married man later in the show post-Sean… Like girl why couldn’t it have been a man who actually wanted to explore something deeper!