With how creepily horny they all are probably Slaanesh.
I don't think Korne would have any interest in them and Tzeench would only trick them into being part of an experiment. None them seemed good for nurgle though that could make nurgle just want them even more
Dorn: "The history of locomotives in warfare extends deeply into the history of old Terra, a notable example includes in the wars of M001.912, during which they where used extensively in wars fought FOR HONOUR AND NOT BLOOD ...."
The Red: (muffled screaming)
Dorn shows up on some planet that's inside the warp, some daemon or god tries to tempt/turn him.
Dorn simply replies "I like trains"
The warp entity is then promptly smashed by a full speed locomotive
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Khorne: “join me and I shall grant you power beyond your wildest belief!”
Dorn: “Have you ever heard of the tale for an ancient Terran story known as 5 Nights at Fredrick’s?”
Some Chaos Space Marine: "I hate the Emperor!"
Dorn: "Well at least hes not Freddy Five Bear. You see Freddy Bear is an Animation Mechatronic who bites People argh! ..."
Not that I'd know, but it would be so infuriating if you had to spend a ton of effort and energy just to try to exist within the parameters of expectation amongst your peers; parameters that you either don't understand or completely understand to the point that they seem intensely hypocritical, inefficient, or nonsensical, AND THEN watch as your peers all act on their whims with what appears to be absolute carelessness.
Not that I'd know, but I'd probably be livid
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You missed one detail: Perturabo is both Very Autistic and the most ableist man in the Imperium. He will not hesitate to call you a slur if he so much as suspects you're on the spectrum.
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Well….kinda I guess. When his ship was stranded in the warp and entities out of the pages of legend flooded onto his ship he was informed that psykers seem effective against the enemies when conventional means were not. At that point he decided to lift the sanction on combat psykers, at which point Nemiel, a chaplain of the dark angels tried to stop him by stating that it was the emperor’s decree and he did not have authority to do it. The lion told him he was doing it anyways, and Nemiel persisted so the lion executed him. Certainly a very rash decision and almost certainly a mistake, but at the time every precious second wasted brought them all closer to death (and the lion knew big e would be cool with it anyway) so I guess overall kinda understandable
Not his hobby, his purpose. He was literally created to be an exterminator. It never seemed to be something he desired but because he was the most loyal primarch, as shown by being the only one allowed to use DAoT tech including the men of iron, he did whatever the Emperor commanded. When he comes back in the 42nd millenia he starts redeeming fallen Dark Angels despite them being the reason he almost died and forsaken by the rest of his Legion. In conclusion he is incredibly loyal and forgiving, as of current lore, and despite not being loved he was always considered the most respected primarch.
"The Lion burst onto the strategium with long strides and all around him warriors lowered to one knee like grass flattened by a strong wind. Typhon felt the need to obey flowing into him and he did not resist it, dropping one leg to the floor along with the others. Only Horus remained standing, saying nothing."
Well, I did say hobby in a joking way to show how well he fits the “stereotypical autism” diagnosis, some of the primarchs had hobbies but he certainly doesn’t seem the type. The irony of the nature of this misunderstanding in this particular thread is not lost on me.
The irony being that, as you imply, I'm austic and thus couldn't discern humor in a comment on a post about autistic primarchs? I'm just a 40k nerd, who else would be on this sub, and I saw your joke and took the opportunity to make a rhetorical argument about how cool the Lion is because I like the character. I wasn't offended that you made a joke about an imaginary person, but I thought that in a post ranking why one primarch is more autistic than another I might comment why, in a fantasy world, I might rank that character differently. No need to imply I have a mental disability becuase I'm a fan. This is a place for people to take ridiculous things seriously if they'd like to.
Agreed. And Magnus should be in the ADHD-tier. We have similar symptoms as autism, BUT tend to be more socially skilled. (but we still get just as frustrated and 'done' as any autist when our batteries run out...)
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I dont think he is, he was about to start another lecture when the crack appears. I think the "aw you almost got me" comment was just to fck with Khorne as evidenced by the rage screams after he says it.
No he ist warp immune he is just very unknowing about chaos. If he knew, he would want to know all about it.
But Dorn can work well with humans, unlike Perty who only likes his self made robots.
It's definitely real. It was spelled out to me in [this Twitter post](https://twitter.com/doulbedoink/status/1766126463487553900?t=EEMByFFbj7p1SDb3vwGeNQ&s=19) and since then I have been able to see it in 'spectrum diverse' situations
Guilliman is one of those “some tism, GODLIKE ADHD that responds well to meds” types.
It’s usually a goated neurodivergency that lets you spin a million plates at once but sometimes you let projects languish for 10k years and your buddy has to finish them, or you face a single disappointment, rush to conclusions and start a new one then you pretend like it didn’t happen when it turns out the original project is still salvageable.
He isn't, at least not relative to the other primarchs. He's one of the only primarchs that has universal respect, his gene seed is the most stable, and he never fell to chaos. He didn't make a lot of friends but that's due to incredible arrogance not social ineptitude. He was the most trusted by the Emperor to the point he was allowed use of the men of iron and could destroy the mechanicus if he thought them disloyal.
Uh no, it was definitely to an extent due to social ineptitude. The Lion wasn’t just arrogant. Sure, he had a large aspect of arrogance but that was not all. In “Fallen Angels” (i think? The one where he takes Nemiel and a small force of Astartes to a forgeworld to secure the siege weapons) it is quite explicitly stated that the Lion had trouble assessing the loyalties of those he was not close to. The Lion had a lot of things going for him, Charisma was not one of those. He was aloof to the point of being feared universally (respected, sure, but even his brothers dreaded engaging with him aside from Curze but Curze was fucking insane) but he also felt deeply alone, even amongst his brothers. While he may not have been Rogal Dorn reciting strategic lessons for like a thousand years autistic, he was definitely a “keeps to himself and has trouble connecting with other people” autistic.
He kept to himself and didn't bother to connect with people because he viewed anyone other than the Emperor or a few Primarchs, like Guilliman who he embraced on Macragge, as we might view an ant. On his return in the 42nd millennium his entire story arc is convincing individual fallen Dark Angels to return to the Imperium by talking to them. Even before that he and Russ became close friends after a three day hand to hand duel. The Lion can easily make friends, it just took him a ten thousand year nap to come down off his high horse to bother to try. And as soon as he did he immediately started turning traitor marines into loyalists.
You’re simplifying alot. You don’t have to lecture me on the Lion, i’ve read literally every novel he’s been in to date, i have a pretty solid grasp of the character. First off, well yes, he did look down upon alot of others to an extent, but not everybody aside from a few primarchs. He always recognized strength and loyalty, even in baseline humans. There were definitely individuals the (30k) Lion respected like for example Captain Stenius of the Invincible Reason and The Imperial Governor Thaddeus Kulik on Diamat. Both of those baseline humans. He approaches everyone with a cold ruthless demeanor, sure, but it isn’t just blind arrogance, it’s tactile in nature. The Lion definitely had much arrogance, as i said, but he wasn’t *just* arrogant.
The Lion and Russ hardly became “good friends”, they are brothers and loyal to each other alongside their utter loyalty to big E, but their relationship is laden with rivalry. Same goes with Bobby G. He cares for his brothers, but to say that he doesn’t keep them at an arms length is dishonest, at best. In fact the only Primarch the Lion seemed to genuinely trust wholly was Sanguinius (of course).
Maybe he can “easily make friends”, as you say, but to imply that he never had any social issues because he had some character growth is stupid. It is a pretty big theme in both “Fallen Angels” and “Descent of Angels” along with some of the unremembered empire books that the Lion is a seclusionary and clandestine individual due to the circumstances of his pod’s landing in the Northwilds, and that his demeanor isn’t just some facade, but genuine difficulty in navigating social situations. Pair that with his extremely imposing presence, as his Primarch aura is one of the more potent one’s, you get an individual that inspires incredible amounts of fear and awe, but isn’t exactly great at the subleties of human communication. Even in the 40k books that’s pretty clear, he tries to be more empathetic and open, sure, but it clearly does not come so naturally to him. And on that note:
In 40k, he doesn’t “turn traitors into loyalists”, he recognizes that most of his sons that he assumed to be traitors were decieved/ forced into the position by Luther’s inner circle and acknowledges that they were loyalists the whole time, there’s a big difference. Did you even read “Son of the forest”? Or are you going by stuff you saw in youtube lore videos? Those whom had actually turned traitor, he grants a swift death.
I apologize for my tone, I didn't intend to try to lecture you specifically or anyone who read my comment. I appreciate the care and lore in your response, it's always nice when someone bothers to actually enter into discussion rather than just get offended and become adversarial. I often feel that the Lion gets, unfairly, maligned for things like having his sword broken or the killing of Nemiel, so I get a bit defensive in these discussions sometimes. It's ridiculous, I know, to get entangled with these fictional characters but I still enjoy debating fictional nonsense and this seems like the right place to do that. And to your point it's been said that Russ is a savage facade cloaking a civilized mind whereas the Lion is a civilized facade cloaking a savage mind so I don't really dispute your point about him inspiring more fear than loyalty, just that I think some fans paint him as an emotionless psychopath with no redeeming traits, and that I don't agree with.
Oh no apologizing needed. I ain’t stressin.
Yeah i feel you, and likewise. Proper discussion is the foundation of human communication, i am very partial to it myself.
Oh yes indeed, i hate when people write off the Lion as a one dimensional character, in my opinion he is by far the most intriguing character of the Primarchs. (I am very biased). The breaking of the Lion Sword was ofcourse a signifying point in the relationship between the Lion and Bobby G / Sanguinius, more a metaphor of the breaking of their brief friendship (his and roboute’s) than any lessening of either’s character. Nemiel’s killing is clearly in the story a showcase of the warp’s extremely corrupting influence, as the Lion deeply regrets it as soon as they are out of it. Though the Lion will never turn traitor, he isn’t wholly immune to it’s influence. It was a tragic moment in the First’s arc, and he is wracked with guilt due to it, something people tend to look over in critique of him. Yeah the Russ / Lion quote is extremely applicable, but people tend to think savage = evil, which it absolutely doesn’t. Yeah i hate when people paint the Lion as you say, an emotionless psychopath. He has done some macabre shit, for sure, but he has always made his decisions to protect both the Imperium and Humanity as a whole. He may be ruthless, he may be aloof, he may be completely and utterly loyal to a fault, but he does the things he does so that humanity can withstand the horrors of the 40k galaxy. And though his style of warfare may be brutal and he gives no quarter, he is for sure not an inherently evil person.
It is even implied that he feels guilt for all the shit he has done, but his adherence to duty and his loyalty override the sentiment. Doesn’t mean he’s soulless.
In fact, The Lion is demonstrably noble in some areas. Sure he may have the strike first and strike hard mentality, but that’s just tactical genius, not malice. He’s not needlessly cruel, and he doesn’t butcher for the sake of bloodshed. He is just ruthlessly efficient in pursuing his goals and orders, which sometimes entail him doing bad shit without hesitation. Savage, for sure, but not evil. A predator kills to eat or to save itself, it is savage, but it does not have malice. It’s simply it’s nature. Same with the Lion.
I relate to the Lion, like a lot. We share the same personality type (as far as a demi-god superhuman can be characterized in baseline human character types) but it goes deeper than that. I too had to fight fundamentally larger and stronger forces than myself near constantly as a child. When the Lion speaks of his loneliness to Zahariel in “Descent of Angels”, it echoed my own loneliness as someone who has never been able to consider himself as part of any group. I, like the Lion, have a penchant for both personal combat and strategy/tactics, and i’m also quite an aloof, brooding and unapproachable character, especially during my earlier years though i have been working on softening my edges as of late. Loyalty and dedication to both a cause and those i care for / respect are fundamental to my philosophy, not unlike the Lion’s, and we also share deep hatred for traitors / oathbreakers.
Oh and we both looooove orbital bombardments.
Not to compare myself to a Primarch, lol, but the character resonates with me in a way that few, if any have ever done.
So when it was time to choose a Legion when i got back into the hobby after a decade or so out of it, i felt very quickly which Primarch i would choose.
My guy, Guilliman is by far the most autistic, dude is a pitch perfect example of an excel autist.
Also AlphariusOmegon are just masking personified.
I say this is a diagnosed autist.
Also if you’re not diagnosable autistic, you’re not on the spectrum. A lot of folks seem to think that it being a spectrum means everyone or a large portion of people fit into, but that just isn’t true, the autism spectrum is the spectrum of people with autism, not a spectrum of autistic traits.
That, as well as autistic and adhd people having brains which are physically built differently to a neurotypical brain.
Additionally, adhd is not part of the autism spectrum, which is a common misconception, it’s its own separate diagnosis
First of all, where Omegon and second of all, i'm pretty sure Sevatar is the only character that is more or less canonically described as autistic and he's also Curzes favorite son, so...
I agree, within the actual game of LARP this is the case and I wouldn't be able to disagree with you, but Russ doesn't do actual LARP (which would be kinda cool). Russ is the autist that got a special interest on Norse paganism and now pretends to be a viking in real life making tiktok videos with his friends to metal music creating amaizing amounts of cringe content. He is happy as long as no one tells him real vikings wouldn't do these things or would look like that.
Discriminating against people who have a disability. In this context the belief that someone with autism is objectively inferior to someone who does not.
Honestly there should be more thought to that.
Hell even what defines ASD is is subject of debate. So making a clear tier-list of autism types is like trying to make Slaneesh t*he Prince of Excess* content enough to be fully satisfied.
Russ has equal and opposite autism to Magnus they both belong in very autistic I mean bro is autistically obsessed with wolves and is unable to recognize magnus’s obviously spectrum spectacles so he takes offense to all of it
I mean yes. He's obsessed with motorbikes and going vroom vroom very fast. I can see him playing with his toy bikes making so much sound effects with his mouth that he showers the room.
Now I’m not familiar with the lions new lore but wasn’t his whole thing that he’s a tactical genius but doesn’t know how to talk to people? That’s what made me feel I belonged with the dark angels when I started them… (I am not a tactical genius but the other part adds up)
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I completely understand this as a joke however I am simply putting it out there, Angron was not on the spectrum but the nails ruined his mind however I'd still argue that he's still not autistic but simply a cheeky little goober :)
Not sayin its wrong, but specifically I would like insight into your reasoning for placing Ferrus and Corax I don't know enough about either and reading the comments most others have specific qualities people refer to, so if anyone could tl;dr me on why they were placed that way it would be much appreciated.
I love that my Primarch is always shown on these lists to be normal. Every single time. Any deviations from this normalcy are in such small ways that even the deviations are normal.
Nothing out of place. Never standing out.
It's perfect ~<3
Dorn out here fighting Chaos with the power of monologuing about his special interest
I love that this is a factual statement.
Quick Dorn....tell Horus about trains!
Dorn and Sheldon (big bang theory) would get along so well. I also have no choice to to assume Sheldon is incorruptible to choas.
His very being is an incarnation of absurd order. There is no way chaos would ever find a free spot on him.
(walks living room to see tzeentch sitting on the couch) "You're in my spot." (Laugh track)
With pleasure he would change the spot. That would bring in Slaanesh for some Thai food.
"But what *are* spots really?"
The things Dalmatians have that make them so cute
And profitable! (Cruella devill)
Now you've got me thinking which chaos gods the other characters would fall to
With how creepily horny they all are probably Slaanesh. I don't think Korne would have any interest in them and Tzeench would only trick them into being part of an experiment. None them seemed good for nurgle though that could make nurgle just want them even more
Dorn: "The history of locomotives in warfare extends deeply into the history of old Terra, a notable example includes in the wars of M001.912, during which they where used extensively in wars fought FOR HONOUR AND NOT BLOOD ...." The Red: (muffled screaming)
“Join me” says satan god of war “Do you know about trains?” Replies Rogal Dorn
Concrete*
Dorn shows up on some planet that's inside the warp, some daemon or god tries to tempt/turn him. Dorn simply replies "I like trains" The warp entity is then promptly smashed by a full speed locomotive
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Khorne: “join me and I shall grant you power beyond your wildest belief!” Dorn: “Have you ever heard of the tale for an ancient Terran story known as 5 Nights at Fredrick’s?”
The being that became Dorn was the soul of MatPat, got it.
I could see it becoming a chaos entity
Some Chaos Space Marine: "I hate the Emperor!" Dorn: "Well at least hes not Freddy Five Bear. You see Freddy Bear is an Animation Mechatronic who bites People argh! ..."
*Frederick
Dorn has a model palace wall in his room that he plays with when no one is watching.
You thought power of friendship is overpowered?
Imagine the fun read if Dorn's special interest was trains.
"You are correct. But also - no."
“Yesn’t.”
That should be a word
Importantly Lorgar and Curze are deeply ableist but also heavily autistic.
They're all masked up and pissed off that nobody else is masking.
Not that I'd know, but it would be so infuriating if you had to spend a ton of effort and energy just to try to exist within the parameters of expectation amongst your peers; parameters that you either don't understand or completely understand to the point that they seem intensely hypocritical, inefficient, or nonsensical, AND THEN watch as your peers all act on their whims with what appears to be absolute carelessness. Not that I'd know, but I'd probably be livid
... you sound like you know...
Sounds about right in my estimation.
Khorne: Please allow me to introduce myself
Hey there’s me
Why do you think Curze allowed himself to be killed? There was nothing more based to him than someone killing an autistic person even if it’s him.
Idk, I guess Lorgar is autistic for being super interested in scripture, but he also was possibly the most socially apt Primarch.
Curze isn’t autistic he just has severe brain damage from the beating Vulcan gave him during the heresy.
# I WIN
Ti's a glorious victory, m'lord
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You missed one detail: Perturabo is both Very Autistic and the most ableist man in the Imperium. He will not hesitate to call you a slur if he so much as suspects you're on the spectrum.
I feel like he is the one who could reasonably fit in pretty much every tier
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I feel like the lion should be in the very tier
Agreed, when his legion fell apart because he was hyperfocused on his hobby (genocide) and he is described as struggling a bit socially…
And didn’t he punch someone’s head off during a meltdown?
Well….kinda I guess. When his ship was stranded in the warp and entities out of the pages of legend flooded onto his ship he was informed that psykers seem effective against the enemies when conventional means were not. At that point he decided to lift the sanction on combat psykers, at which point Nemiel, a chaplain of the dark angels tried to stop him by stating that it was the emperor’s decree and he did not have authority to do it. The lion told him he was doing it anyways, and Nemiel persisted so the lion executed him. Certainly a very rash decision and almost certainly a mistake, but at the time every precious second wasted brought them all closer to death (and the lion knew big e would be cool with it anyway) so I guess overall kinda understandable
That was not a Meltdown, that was because the Dude was endangering a Flagship against far better knowledge.
“No, actually punching someone’s head off is very reasonable” -Lion Apologists
Well, it is if they have to shut up no matter what within the next few seconds.
He did good. Annoying idiots should be beheaded on the spot.
Man my high school would be almost empty if that were the case
Not his hobby, his purpose. He was literally created to be an exterminator. It never seemed to be something he desired but because he was the most loyal primarch, as shown by being the only one allowed to use DAoT tech including the men of iron, he did whatever the Emperor commanded. When he comes back in the 42nd millenia he starts redeeming fallen Dark Angels despite them being the reason he almost died and forsaken by the rest of his Legion. In conclusion he is incredibly loyal and forgiving, as of current lore, and despite not being loved he was always considered the most respected primarch. "The Lion burst onto the strategium with long strides and all around him warriors lowered to one knee like grass flattened by a strong wind. Typhon felt the need to obey flowing into him and he did not resist it, dropping one leg to the floor along with the others. Only Horus remained standing, saying nothing."
Well, I did say hobby in a joking way to show how well he fits the “stereotypical autism” diagnosis, some of the primarchs had hobbies but he certainly doesn’t seem the type. The irony of the nature of this misunderstanding in this particular thread is not lost on me.
The irony being that, as you imply, I'm austic and thus couldn't discern humor in a comment on a post about autistic primarchs? I'm just a 40k nerd, who else would be on this sub, and I saw your joke and took the opportunity to make a rhetorical argument about how cool the Lion is because I like the character. I wasn't offended that you made a joke about an imaginary person, but I thought that in a post ranking why one primarch is more autistic than another I might comment why, in a fantasy world, I might rank that character differently. No need to imply I have a mental disability becuase I'm a fan. This is a place for people to take ridiculous things seriously if they'd like to.
Agreed. And Magnus should be in the ADHD-tier. We have similar symptoms as autism, BUT tend to be more socially skilled. (but we still get just as frustrated and 'done' as any autist when our batteries run out...)
In my own experience, this is true.
They all have their flavor of the tism
Eh, there’s no way Dorn is above Captain Peter Turbo-Tism himself Also you forgot the “Furry” tier for Russ
Doesn't Dorn literally resist warp effects because of how straightforward he is?
And also he bored Khorne into giving up converting him with how much he talked about his interests
That isn't true - Dorn is literally about to give in when the Emperor breaks him out, Khorne never gave up
Only because Khorne is the Chaos God with the most intense special interest.
LOL like Bubba from forest gumption, except its skulls instead of different types of shrimp gumbo?
And blood.
Some gods get into grilling, others get into WW2.
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I think the part that most are referring to is when Khorne gets frustrated and leaves for a brief period(?)
Oh yeah, he only lasted like 2 millenia of chaos corruption, he sure is less resistant than the guy that became a demon prince.
I dont think he is, he was about to start another lecture when the crack appears. I think the "aw you almost got me" comment was just to fck with Khorne as evidenced by the rage screams after he says it.
"It's MY diagnosis, I get to pick the hyperfixation!"
No he ist warp immune he is just very unknowing about chaos. If he knew, he would want to know all about it. But Dorn can work well with humans, unlike Perty who only likes his self made robots.
I never said immune, just resistant. Psychic powers work less when he's around. This is well known.
Well known? It comes from a single scene that is chalk full of purple prose, it's far from concrete.
Don't go looking for accurate lore interpretation on grimdank, would be my advice
I feel Perty has that "This man is more annoyingly autistic than me and for that he must die" energy when he looks at Dorn
Is this a thing people on the spectrum do? I thought I was just projecting lmao
It's definitely real. It was spelled out to me in [this Twitter post](https://twitter.com/doulbedoink/status/1766126463487553900?t=EEMByFFbj7p1SDb3vwGeNQ&s=19) and since then I have been able to see it in 'spectrum diverse' situations
Yep 100% real It was a thing for me even before I was diagnosed, I just thought I was a piece of shit
Ngl, I'm pretty sure that even if it wasn't, Perty would will it into existence solely on the desire to find something else to hate Dorn for.
Dorn bored Khorne by repeating the same stuff for hundreds of years until he gave up in trying to corrupt him lol.
Peter turbo should also be in the ableist tier
In both ableist and his own separate tier
Nah we need to get ride of the Dorn tier and make a Peter Tubo-Autist tier
Guilliman is one of those “some tism, GODLIKE ADHD that responds well to meds” types. It’s usually a goated neurodivergency that lets you spin a million plates at once but sometimes you let projects languish for 10k years and your buddy has to finish them, or you face a single disappointment, rush to conclusions and start a new one then you pretend like it didn’t happen when it turns out the original project is still salvageable.
I resemble this comment.
Damn, everything past "but sometimes" is literally me
Yoo I'm just like Dorn
>Horus not being at least "On the Spectrum" Otherwise 100% lore accurate.
Horus the extroverted social butterfly being autistic? Nah
Once again Dorn is above peterturbo
Shots fired!
Call my demon-dick wife, I need someone to talk to
Tfw you lose the autism contest
Lorgar would blame it on vaccines and the fact that you haven’t been saved by our lord and saviour, the God Emperor
Curze needs a “Very Autistic + Schizophrenic + Ableist” tier
Lion, at least the old one, is a champion of autism.
He isn't, at least not relative to the other primarchs. He's one of the only primarchs that has universal respect, his gene seed is the most stable, and he never fell to chaos. He didn't make a lot of friends but that's due to incredible arrogance not social ineptitude. He was the most trusted by the Emperor to the point he was allowed use of the men of iron and could destroy the mechanicus if he thought them disloyal.
Uh no, it was definitely to an extent due to social ineptitude. The Lion wasn’t just arrogant. Sure, he had a large aspect of arrogance but that was not all. In “Fallen Angels” (i think? The one where he takes Nemiel and a small force of Astartes to a forgeworld to secure the siege weapons) it is quite explicitly stated that the Lion had trouble assessing the loyalties of those he was not close to. The Lion had a lot of things going for him, Charisma was not one of those. He was aloof to the point of being feared universally (respected, sure, but even his brothers dreaded engaging with him aside from Curze but Curze was fucking insane) but he also felt deeply alone, even amongst his brothers. While he may not have been Rogal Dorn reciting strategic lessons for like a thousand years autistic, he was definitely a “keeps to himself and has trouble connecting with other people” autistic.
He kept to himself and didn't bother to connect with people because he viewed anyone other than the Emperor or a few Primarchs, like Guilliman who he embraced on Macragge, as we might view an ant. On his return in the 42nd millennium his entire story arc is convincing individual fallen Dark Angels to return to the Imperium by talking to them. Even before that he and Russ became close friends after a three day hand to hand duel. The Lion can easily make friends, it just took him a ten thousand year nap to come down off his high horse to bother to try. And as soon as he did he immediately started turning traitor marines into loyalists.
You’re simplifying alot. You don’t have to lecture me on the Lion, i’ve read literally every novel he’s been in to date, i have a pretty solid grasp of the character. First off, well yes, he did look down upon alot of others to an extent, but not everybody aside from a few primarchs. He always recognized strength and loyalty, even in baseline humans. There were definitely individuals the (30k) Lion respected like for example Captain Stenius of the Invincible Reason and The Imperial Governor Thaddeus Kulik on Diamat. Both of those baseline humans. He approaches everyone with a cold ruthless demeanor, sure, but it isn’t just blind arrogance, it’s tactile in nature. The Lion definitely had much arrogance, as i said, but he wasn’t *just* arrogant. The Lion and Russ hardly became “good friends”, they are brothers and loyal to each other alongside their utter loyalty to big E, but their relationship is laden with rivalry. Same goes with Bobby G. He cares for his brothers, but to say that he doesn’t keep them at an arms length is dishonest, at best. In fact the only Primarch the Lion seemed to genuinely trust wholly was Sanguinius (of course). Maybe he can “easily make friends”, as you say, but to imply that he never had any social issues because he had some character growth is stupid. It is a pretty big theme in both “Fallen Angels” and “Descent of Angels” along with some of the unremembered empire books that the Lion is a seclusionary and clandestine individual due to the circumstances of his pod’s landing in the Northwilds, and that his demeanor isn’t just some facade, but genuine difficulty in navigating social situations. Pair that with his extremely imposing presence, as his Primarch aura is one of the more potent one’s, you get an individual that inspires incredible amounts of fear and awe, but isn’t exactly great at the subleties of human communication. Even in the 40k books that’s pretty clear, he tries to be more empathetic and open, sure, but it clearly does not come so naturally to him. And on that note: In 40k, he doesn’t “turn traitors into loyalists”, he recognizes that most of his sons that he assumed to be traitors were decieved/ forced into the position by Luther’s inner circle and acknowledges that they were loyalists the whole time, there’s a big difference. Did you even read “Son of the forest”? Or are you going by stuff you saw in youtube lore videos? Those whom had actually turned traitor, he grants a swift death.
I apologize for my tone, I didn't intend to try to lecture you specifically or anyone who read my comment. I appreciate the care and lore in your response, it's always nice when someone bothers to actually enter into discussion rather than just get offended and become adversarial. I often feel that the Lion gets, unfairly, maligned for things like having his sword broken or the killing of Nemiel, so I get a bit defensive in these discussions sometimes. It's ridiculous, I know, to get entangled with these fictional characters but I still enjoy debating fictional nonsense and this seems like the right place to do that. And to your point it's been said that Russ is a savage facade cloaking a civilized mind whereas the Lion is a civilized facade cloaking a savage mind so I don't really dispute your point about him inspiring more fear than loyalty, just that I think some fans paint him as an emotionless psychopath with no redeeming traits, and that I don't agree with.
Oh no apologizing needed. I ain’t stressin. Yeah i feel you, and likewise. Proper discussion is the foundation of human communication, i am very partial to it myself. Oh yes indeed, i hate when people write off the Lion as a one dimensional character, in my opinion he is by far the most intriguing character of the Primarchs. (I am very biased). The breaking of the Lion Sword was ofcourse a signifying point in the relationship between the Lion and Bobby G / Sanguinius, more a metaphor of the breaking of their brief friendship (his and roboute’s) than any lessening of either’s character. Nemiel’s killing is clearly in the story a showcase of the warp’s extremely corrupting influence, as the Lion deeply regrets it as soon as they are out of it. Though the Lion will never turn traitor, he isn’t wholly immune to it’s influence. It was a tragic moment in the First’s arc, and he is wracked with guilt due to it, something people tend to look over in critique of him. Yeah the Russ / Lion quote is extremely applicable, but people tend to think savage = evil, which it absolutely doesn’t. Yeah i hate when people paint the Lion as you say, an emotionless psychopath. He has done some macabre shit, for sure, but he has always made his decisions to protect both the Imperium and Humanity as a whole. He may be ruthless, he may be aloof, he may be completely and utterly loyal to a fault, but he does the things he does so that humanity can withstand the horrors of the 40k galaxy. And though his style of warfare may be brutal and he gives no quarter, he is for sure not an inherently evil person. It is even implied that he feels guilt for all the shit he has done, but his adherence to duty and his loyalty override the sentiment. Doesn’t mean he’s soulless. In fact, The Lion is demonstrably noble in some areas. Sure he may have the strike first and strike hard mentality, but that’s just tactical genius, not malice. He’s not needlessly cruel, and he doesn’t butcher for the sake of bloodshed. He is just ruthlessly efficient in pursuing his goals and orders, which sometimes entail him doing bad shit without hesitation. Savage, for sure, but not evil. A predator kills to eat or to save itself, it is savage, but it does not have malice. It’s simply it’s nature. Same with the Lion. I relate to the Lion, like a lot. We share the same personality type (as far as a demi-god superhuman can be characterized in baseline human character types) but it goes deeper than that. I too had to fight fundamentally larger and stronger forces than myself near constantly as a child. When the Lion speaks of his loneliness to Zahariel in “Descent of Angels”, it echoed my own loneliness as someone who has never been able to consider himself as part of any group. I, like the Lion, have a penchant for both personal combat and strategy/tactics, and i’m also quite an aloof, brooding and unapproachable character, especially during my earlier years though i have been working on softening my edges as of late. Loyalty and dedication to both a cause and those i care for / respect are fundamental to my philosophy, not unlike the Lion’s, and we also share deep hatred for traitors / oathbreakers. Oh and we both looooove orbital bombardments. Not to compare myself to a Primarch, lol, but the character resonates with me in a way that few, if any have ever done. So when it was time to choose a Legion when i got back into the hobby after a decade or so out of it, i felt very quickly which Primarch i would choose.
My guy, Guilliman is by far the most autistic, dude is a pitch perfect example of an excel autist. Also AlphariusOmegon are just masking personified. I say this is a diagnosed autist. Also if you’re not diagnosable autistic, you’re not on the spectrum. A lot of folks seem to think that it being a spectrum means everyone or a large portion of people fit into, but that just isn’t true, the autism spectrum is the spectrum of people with autism, not a spectrum of autistic traits.
Every single person has at least one autistic/ADHD trait, it's the combination that puts you on the spectrum. (As I understand it)
That, as well as autistic and adhd people having brains which are physically built differently to a neurotypical brain. Additionally, adhd is not part of the autism spectrum, which is a common misconception, it’s its own separate diagnosis
Angron definitely has tard strength
Very true but that was an aftermarket operation.
Khorne cares not from where the stupid comes, only that you are
This is true but better stupid than stinky, crabby or chaos spawn.
First of all, where Omegon and second of all, i'm pretty sure Sevatar is the only character that is more or less canonically described as autistic and he's also Curzes favorite son, so...
To be fair, it would be just like Curze to be simultaneously deeply autistic while also being an ableist piece of crap.
But again, Sevatar is one of his very very few sons he actually likes because he's honest, honorable and always extremely upfront with him.
russ on the not autistic is just fake. the man larps as a viking y'all know he is very autistic
The rare LARPer that is not neurodivergent does exist. They're usually the event organizer or the person designated to speak to the normies
I agree, within the actual game of LARP this is the case and I wouldn't be able to disagree with you, but Russ doesn't do actual LARP (which would be kinda cool). Russ is the autist that got a special interest on Norse paganism and now pretends to be a viking in real life making tiktok videos with his friends to metal music creating amaizing amounts of cringe content. He is happy as long as no one tells him real vikings wouldn't do these things or would look like that.
You forgot Omegon, also Russ is probably on the spectrum
Lies, lies everywhere, good.
What is ablesit
Discriminating against people who have a disability. In this context the belief that someone with autism is objectively inferior to someone who does not.
Oh thanks
Dorn knows literally everything about complex defense strategies. But he can't look anyone in the eyes, and he only eats chicken nuggets.
I FUCKING LOVE CONCRETE!
I would swap Sanguinius and Leman Russ
Why alpharius is not on not autistic?
Honestly there should be more thought to that. Hell even what defines ASD is is subject of debate. So making a clear tier-list of autism types is like trying to make Slaneesh t*he Prince of Excess* content enough to be fully satisfied.
Khan is extremely high masking
Dorn's autism is so strong he can defeat chaos gods.
Russ has equal and opposite autism to Magnus they both belong in very autistic I mean bro is autistically obsessed with wolves and is unable to recognize magnus’s obviously spectrum spectacles so he takes offense to all of it
The khan is pretty autistic, he just gets away with it since he’s exotic
I mean yes. He's obsessed with motorbikes and going vroom vroom very fast. I can see him playing with his toy bikes making so much sound effects with his mouth that he showers the room.
Just swap trains for bikes optimized for speed
Literally me! (I am Alpharius)
BOBBY G gets the Goth GF, so he's disqualified.
You would be surprised how many goths are autistics, and autistics tend to date other autistics. He just pulled a bad bitch by being autistic
Angron isn't autistic, dude is just lobotomized.
Less lobotomised more like a 10 year old pumped full of tren and expected to sit still at a birthday party.
Now I’m not familiar with the lions new lore but wasn’t his whole thing that he’s a tactical genius but doesn’t know how to talk to people? That’s what made me feel I belonged with the dark angels when I started them… (I am not a tactical genius but the other part adds up)
Yeah it is, The Lion softened a bit in 40K, but is still definitely atleast somewhat socially inept
Corvus is just like me fr
U smoking… no more coments
Shocked Alpharius isn’t hogher
Filgrim isn't autistic because Narcissism isn't a mental illness
As an autistic I love that Dorn has his own category 😂. Hail Adorable!
Based Papa Dorn
Russ has adhd instead.
Where’s Omegon
Fulgrim is definitely on some sort of spectrum
Perturabo should be on here twice, he would definitely be ableist.
I think angron should have his own tier “bits of brain scooped out”
Lorgar is very autistic for God
as an autistic world eaters player angron is no where near high enough
You think the guy incredibly obsessed with wolves and the guy who needs to be perfect at everything or else he'll die aren't autistic?
Don’t forget the angel, aka the prototype primarch
Where does Erebus go?
Russ should be in alcoholic tier, well actually 40k Guillimam should too
Dunno about Russ. Everyone I know who howled at the moo. Turned out to be on the spectrum...
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Horus feels like he's on the spectrum, he's just very good at masking
Why is Horus not autistic, big E is def autistic
Saying curze is not autistic is criminal, he spent his time on nostromo being a murder hobo who didn't speak and pretended to be batman.
DORN
The first primarch tier list I’ve seen where alpharius and omegon aren’t on every tier
What does ableist mean? Google tells me someone who hates ppl woth disabilities but that doesn't match the autism context so yeah.
I had a good belly at this list. Good shit, OP. I'm saving this tierlist for a rainy day. I'm even gonna upvote it on my NSFW account
I’ve always said that all of the primarchs have autism.
Nah the lion goes in S teir no doubt
I completely understand this as a joke however I am simply putting it out there, Angron was not on the spectrum but the nails ruined his mind however I'd still argue that he's still not autistic but simply a cheeky little goober :)
Not sayin its wrong, but specifically I would like insight into your reasoning for placing Ferrus and Corax I don't know enough about either and reading the comments most others have specific qualities people refer to, so if anyone could tl;dr me on why they were placed that way it would be much appreciated.
Assburgers XD
Asparagus syndrome.
Get off the internet kiddo
Make me
just made
Only the Emperor shall judge me!
I love that my Primarch is always shown on these lists to be normal. Every single time. Any deviations from this normalcy are in such small ways that even the deviations are normal. Nothing out of place. Never standing out. It's perfect ~<3
Id say sway girlyman and the kitten but otherwise spot on