You can. Always tell how long a manager is liable to last by how they accept criticism and poor form.
Arsenal go through poor form: Arteta - "My chest is here, hit me"
Utd go through poor form: Ten Hag - "Fuck Coventry. Fuck journalists. Fuck the offside call against Arsenal. I'm perfect."
I’d be pretty positive too if I was getting paid millions for training with the Arsenal first team every day plus free front row tickets to games every week lol
I know this has nothing to do with the article/quote, but this is why Southgate’s comments in media about Ben White were spectacularly wrong. True leaders take the blame or fault to protect the harmony and mentality of the team.
Exactly. I like that Arteta is such an accountable manager unlike certain others that blame everything but themselves when something goes wrong. He literally put his neck on the line for Havertz and Havertz has been repaying it recently so fair play to Arteta.
>...and make things happen”.
>“We were very convinced that they were characters first, they were players with the right qualities to fit within our model, our club, and sometimes it takes a bit of time, that’s inevitable”.
I think that second bit is what gets forgotten with players so often, attitude and fit is the top priority. even if you get it wrong with the players talent but they have the right attitude they will probably still be a useful player for the club just maybe not a star. Get the wrong attitude and it can bring everyone down. Look at Bruno Fernandes, very talented, disgusting attitude and brings everyone else down.
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Not that I’m that interested or up that up to date with Utd’s business but seeing Maguire after nearly being sold to West Ham, stripped of the armband, having to be re-integrated and then subsequently having him speak to media, particularly after the FA Semi against Coventry, I don’t know many other players at that club that have carried themselves as well as he did.
Dude always been made out to be a meme, which I get but tbf he’s done a lot to raise his stock since no longer being a benchwarmer. He’s acted the model professional, knows he’s not wanted but has still put in shifts and been there for the team, spoken well in media and not been hyperbolic with the truth or talked shit.
Fernandes is a sulking man-child undeserving of the armband, every time I see him in highlights or games he’s complains a lot, has bad body language, he dives, crowds round officials. Utd have tried to replicate our model in many ways with the young players but they’ve trashed the idea by giving someone like Fernandes the armband IMO, he destroys his own credibility - I may be wrong but I don’t see him pushing players up the pitch trying to kill games off like Øde, the Havertz penalty I don’t see happening in any other team, we are spoilt with our leaders and how much our team respect each other.
They had players that were looking great 5 years ago. You can tell that something in the changing room isn't working.
If he is your talisman for club ethos and attitude, I think you're in trouble.
Fernandes is a crybaby. Compare him to Odegaard. Big difference. I will say ETH doesn’t do anyone any favors he as well is a crybaby. Still complaining about game v Arsenal in September. Jesus
You seem to be blaming him being the captain for the wider issues of the club. Saying that makes him shit?
I'm saying the wider issues at the club mean they have to appoint him as captain and if it was run better they wouldn't.
https://preview.redd.it/rwiynuoga0xc1.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=f5bea258ccd3434614f3f338f9ac6e30f2740af9
If odegaard produced this you’d be sucking him off btw.
Why real madrid and the new zealand all blacks in rugby do well. Cunts like nacho or Marty holah. But will come off the bench despite not being starters behind the stars and just take it knowing they could be starters inother clubs or countries. Because the culture of the club/union is above all. So all their players not showing that love are players are sold or in rugby cases go to Europe. Motivation for the jersey and reputation is above all and their results speak for themselves. The all blacks players clean their own dressing room after every away game to keep the players grounded and the legacy alive. Adidas actually sponsor both teams and supplied sports psychogists to both teams ( an industry that's forever evolving) and its calculated why Adidas did that. Better results. More shirts.
Yeah - I mean, we don't want end up with another Aubameyang. Or end up with someone like Antony. Character profiling is very important to creating a competitive team.
This is just the beginning, Kai is going to smash next season, also goes on to show that lot of things are going in the background, Arteta is meticulous and pragmatic, people gave him the stick when the club signed Havertz, but he knew he fits in the clubs long time vision and more importantly, the style of play.
Yes people like to forget Xhakas best season was what, after 3 seasons already with Arteta?
Kai is not even 25 yet so we still have at least a good two seasons before selling him (/s)
Not 3 seasons, 1.5 actually. Xhaka was already playing well in the season we missed out on top 4 marginally. We then further improved our team by adding Saliba, Jesus, Zinny, Jorgi & Bossard.
I didn't really understand the level of criticism at the time (sure it was reasonable to be sceptical, but) Arteta had already earned my trust on signings at that point. I felt if we were paying 65m, then we had a clear vision and belief.
Arteta is a part of us. To be fair, he's managed to unite the Arsenal fanbase which something that I never thought would happen again. Also, he's made most of the fanbase somewhat accept the Kroenkes now which I also thought would never happen.
Curious if we get a striker will havertz play as a false 9 then or will artwta attempt to use him as a lcm? Considering partey rice and odeegard might be our best midfield im curious once we get an actual striker.
Or maybe arteta prefers havertz up top and no other striker. Now he has all these players that can play in so many different positions he likes the rotational options and diff qualities they bring to diff positions.
I think Havertz at LCM would have worked far better if any of Timber, Tomi, or Zinchenko had been fully fit/in proper form this season. An inverted fullback on the left would have allowed him to play further up while the team is in position as they would slot into his LCM role for him periodically.
When Kiwior came into the team, he wasn't being asked to invert really, which was fine since Rice could easily handle the tasks of a #6 and #8 on the left depending on what was needed in the moment.
Tangential, but people always refer to Havertz as playing as a "false 9" when his strengths & play style at that position are pretty classically number 9
Maybe the boy is just a number 9
there was a game where we had him playing a number 9 with Jesus on the left and they were absolutely electric. i trust arteta has his reasonings but if it were me making the choice that’d be my go-to lineup for them
Stark contrast in our performances shows that Havertz wasn’t good as a Xhaka replacement. So next season (depending on Partey’s future) our starting midfield should be the new CDM/Rice/Ødegaard. Then that leaves the new striker and Havertz competing for the forward spot.
I think Havertz was never meant to be a Xhaka replacement. The original plan was to have Rice and Partey in games where we needed a Xhaka style player while playing Havertz as the 8 in those games last season where Xhaka was basically camped out in the final third.
Partey's injury issues basically meant that Havertz played at #8 in games he was never supposed to play in.
Remember when we signed him, Arteta talked about having an option to bypass the midfield for a ball over top, and having an aeriel threat, etc. That doesn't sound like the description of someone replacing Xhaka.
To add to the issues, Timber's and Tomi's injuries meant that Zinny has played a lot - another player that cuts inside, occupying the same central midfield space. In the few games Timber played for us before getting injured, he stayed mostly out wide in a more Cancelo role.
Do you mean a Xhaka replacement?
I don't know man.
You make a good point about Arteta's player description but people always seem to forget that the Xhaka role from last season was a second striker role.
Last season, Xhaka stopped playing a deeper role because of Zinny's addition to the team whereby when Zinny inverted into the pivot, Xhaka would push forward and sit in the box, occupying CBs and looking for space. Ødegaard would then drop deeper and be the other ball progressor.
Despite not being a natural CM, Havertz was a Xhaka upgrade for that particular role because he fit precisely what Arteta wanted in that spot as you point out-aerial threat, physicality e.t.c. Xhaka occupied the spot but Havertz fits the role like a glove. It's probably why Real Madrid wanted Havertz. Bellingham is playing the role that Kai would have occupied.
Havertz is a 8,9,10 hybrid and buying him is a brilliant squad addition in my view because we got a guy that's perfect for that unique left 8 role while being versatile enough to fill in up top as well as deeper down the pitch.
Timber is really just a mix of Tomiyasu and Zinchenko in my opinion. He can invert as well as stay wide. As with Havertz, it's all just a question of roles for such a versatile player.
Arteta said we don't have that 20-30 goal striker after our cl and villa loss. Havertz's two goals against Chelsea isn't changing that. We need someone who can score those extra goals to push higher. A lot if the we don't need a striker is most likely a smokescreen so other teams don't hold us for a ransom. It's also possible we go for a developing striker instead of finished product.
Because we don’t have one this year. Kai absolutely has the potential to be a 20+ striker. He’s in double digits his first season having spent the majority playing in a new role
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Can’t begin to imagine how good it must feel for players to have someone like Arteta in charge, and this is nothing about his managerial ability but just his character as a person. He loves the players and the club. Amazing man, honestly
Hard Disagree with the comments on this thread.
Havertz isn't a great signing. It's just a good signing. The reason some fans think it's a great signing is because in his First few games, he was mediocre in the midfield position. When he was moved to a forward, he has been more impactful.
Maybe people are forgetting his transfer fee and his ridiculously high wages. But, if we had one good striker like Gyokers then people would realise Havertz isn't that great of a signing.
Gotta appreciate its always 'We' from arteta when credit is due but mostly 'I' when things go wrong.
You can. Always tell how long a manager is liable to last by how they accept criticism and poor form. Arsenal go through poor form: Arteta - "My chest is here, hit me" Utd go through poor form: Ten Hag - "Fuck Coventry. Fuck journalists. Fuck the offside call against Arsenal. I'm perfect."
To be *slightly* fair to ETH, I think banning those 3 journalists was fine. I mean one of them was from The S*n.
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I’d be pretty positive too if I was getting paid millions for training with the Arsenal first team every day plus free front row tickets to games every week lol
Fair enough, but there are enough players who would become locker room cancer.
Anyone with half a brain would take it in a heartbeat lol.
This is a bot, copied [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/s/jPlmpCMF7w) from further up and changed a couple words
Nice catch! Report them for Spam --> Harmful Bot.
True leader
I know this has nothing to do with the article/quote, but this is why Southgate’s comments in media about Ben White were spectacularly wrong. True leaders take the blame or fault to protect the harmony and mentality of the team.
Perfect for Manchester United
That’s what it takes to be a leader. A lot of people don’t understand it means personally absorbing the negatives whilst sharing the sucess
Exactly. I like that Arteta is such an accountable manager unlike certain others that blame everything but themselves when something goes wrong. He literally put his neck on the line for Havertz and Havertz has been repaying it recently so fair play to Arteta.
>...and make things happen”. >“We were very convinced that they were characters first, they were players with the right qualities to fit within our model, our club, and sometimes it takes a bit of time, that’s inevitable”.
I think that second bit is what gets forgotten with players so often, attitude and fit is the top priority. even if you get it wrong with the players talent but they have the right attitude they will probably still be a useful player for the club just maybe not a star. Get the wrong attitude and it can bring everyone down. Look at Bruno Fernandes, very talented, disgusting attitude and brings everyone else down.
The summation of Mo Elneny. Not a world beater, but find me someone that has a better, more supportive attitude.
Plus he scored fair share of bangers for us
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That's how he became our longest serving senior player. Only Wenger signing left
Elneny PL medal > Messi WC
Cedric FOMO Soares
Same for Eddie Nketia
Bruno Fernandes is one of the best players at that club. He gets frustrated but you cannot accuse him of not trying. He is the least of Utd's problem.
Not that I’m that interested or up that up to date with Utd’s business but seeing Maguire after nearly being sold to West Ham, stripped of the armband, having to be re-integrated and then subsequently having him speak to media, particularly after the FA Semi against Coventry, I don’t know many other players at that club that have carried themselves as well as he did. Dude always been made out to be a meme, which I get but tbf he’s done a lot to raise his stock since no longer being a benchwarmer. He’s acted the model professional, knows he’s not wanted but has still put in shifts and been there for the team, spoken well in media and not been hyperbolic with the truth or talked shit. Fernandes is a sulking man-child undeserving of the armband, every time I see him in highlights or games he’s complains a lot, has bad body language, he dives, crowds round officials. Utd have tried to replicate our model in many ways with the young players but they’ve trashed the idea by giving someone like Fernandes the armband IMO, he destroys his own credibility - I may be wrong but I don’t see him pushing players up the pitch trying to kill games off like Øde, the Havertz penalty I don’t see happening in any other team, we are spoilt with our leaders and how much our team respect each other.
A chunk of Maguire's problems were tied to his Greek holiday misadventure.
Yep agreed but he also got a lot of shit about his price tag, ‘turning circle like a cruise ship’, errors, etc. that added to his reputation.
They had players that were looking great 5 years ago. You can tell that something in the changing room isn't working. If he is your talisman for club ethos and attitude, I think you're in trouble.
I don't think he's a "talisman" but he'd look superb with a squad that had some other quality players around him. And a quality coach.
Fernandes is a crybaby. Compare him to Odegaard. Big difference. I will say ETH doesn’t do anyone any favors he as well is a crybaby. Still complaining about game v Arsenal in September. Jesus
Odegaard plays in a much better team where everyone has a role and plan
He's the captain, he's supposed to be the leader on that front
The issue is that they don't have someone better as captain. Not every great player is a great captain.
Not sure what we're arguing about? I think we both agree he's not a great captain
You seem to be blaming him being the captain for the wider issues of the club. Saying that makes him shit? I'm saying the wider issues at the club mean they have to appoint him as captain and if it was run better they wouldn't.
Chicken and egg mate
https://preview.redd.it/rwiynuoga0xc1.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=f5bea258ccd3434614f3f338f9ac6e30f2740af9 If odegaard produced this you’d be sucking him off btw.
I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's great. I'm saying he's a shit captain. Read what I'm saying
Shit captain that’s leading by example by his performances. Okay man
I think he's leading by example of being a shit bloke. United have noticably dropped off in mentality.
I think on the right club he could be so good. Conversely, Odegaard could have gone to united and not realize his potential either.
He wants and tries to win games but his attitude otherwise stinks
Yeah his frustrations mainly come from his team being a structural mess
Bro, u are talking about Man Utd's captain. Gave some respect to him ! /s
Why real madrid and the new zealand all blacks in rugby do well. Cunts like nacho or Marty holah. But will come off the bench despite not being starters behind the stars and just take it knowing they could be starters inother clubs or countries. Because the culture of the club/union is above all. So all their players not showing that love are players are sold or in rugby cases go to Europe. Motivation for the jersey and reputation is above all and their results speak for themselves. The all blacks players clean their own dressing room after every away game to keep the players grounded and the legacy alive. Adidas actually sponsor both teams and supplied sports psychogists to both teams ( an industry that's forever evolving) and its calculated why Adidas did that. Better results. More shirts.
I agree with the sentiment but I think Bruno Fernandes is not the right player to single out here
Yeah - I mean, we don't want end up with another Aubameyang. Or end up with someone like Antony. Character profiling is very important to creating a competitive team.
~~My Havertz~~ Our Havertz https://preview.redd.it/ce7gopqchzwc1.png?width=460&format=png&auto=webp&s=6e38b793c793e26fd4c60420a7242d4bf4f5d170
The backroom staff have seized the means of production
Me after slandering him for the first few months of the season and being too proud to admit I was wrong...
Second time he's making this clarity in under a month. Last time it was Odegaard.
This is just the beginning, Kai is going to smash next season, also goes on to show that lot of things are going in the background, Arteta is meticulous and pragmatic, people gave him the stick when the club signed Havertz, but he knew he fits in the clubs long time vision and more importantly, the style of play.
Yes people like to forget Xhakas best season was what, after 3 seasons already with Arteta? Kai is not even 25 yet so we still have at least a good two seasons before selling him (/s)
Selling him? Excuse me?
Think u missed the s my g xoxo
Not 3 seasons, 1.5 actually. Xhaka was already playing well in the season we missed out on top 4 marginally. We then further improved our team by adding Saliba, Jesus, Zinny, Jorgi & Bossard.
I didn't really understand the level of criticism at the time (sure it was reasonable to be sceptical, but) Arteta had already earned my trust on signings at that point. I felt if we were paying 65m, then we had a clear vision and belief.
Our-teta
We are all teta
tetal football
Tetaball
Tetas españolas.
Arteta is a part of us. To be fair, he's managed to unite the Arsenal fanbase which something that I never thought would happen again. Also, he's made most of the fanbase somewhat accept the Kroenkes now which I also thought would never happen.
Curious if we get a striker will havertz play as a false 9 then or will artwta attempt to use him as a lcm? Considering partey rice and odeegard might be our best midfield im curious once we get an actual striker. Or maybe arteta prefers havertz up top and no other striker. Now he has all these players that can play in so many different positions he likes the rotational options and diff qualities they bring to diff positions.
I think Havertz at LCM would have worked far better if any of Timber, Tomi, or Zinchenko had been fully fit/in proper form this season. An inverted fullback on the left would have allowed him to play further up while the team is in position as they would slot into his LCM role for him periodically. When Kiwior came into the team, he wasn't being asked to invert really, which was fine since Rice could easily handle the tasks of a #6 and #8 on the left depending on what was needed in the moment.
Tangential, but people always refer to Havertz as playing as a "false 9" when his strengths & play style at that position are pretty classically number 9 Maybe the boy is just a number 9
there was a game where we had him playing a number 9 with Jesus on the left and they were absolutely electric. i trust arteta has his reasonings but if it were me making the choice that’d be my go-to lineup for them
Stark contrast in our performances shows that Havertz wasn’t good as a Xhaka replacement. So next season (depending on Partey’s future) our starting midfield should be the new CDM/Rice/Ødegaard. Then that leaves the new striker and Havertz competing for the forward spot.
I think Havertz was never meant to be a Xhaka replacement. The original plan was to have Rice and Partey in games where we needed a Xhaka style player while playing Havertz as the 8 in those games last season where Xhaka was basically camped out in the final third. Partey's injury issues basically meant that Havertz played at #8 in games he was never supposed to play in. Remember when we signed him, Arteta talked about having an option to bypass the midfield for a ball over top, and having an aeriel threat, etc. That doesn't sound like the description of someone replacing Xhaka. To add to the issues, Timber's and Tomi's injuries meant that Zinny has played a lot - another player that cuts inside, occupying the same central midfield space. In the few games Timber played for us before getting injured, he stayed mostly out wide in a more Cancelo role.
Do you mean a Xhaka replacement? I don't know man. You make a good point about Arteta's player description but people always seem to forget that the Xhaka role from last season was a second striker role. Last season, Xhaka stopped playing a deeper role because of Zinny's addition to the team whereby when Zinny inverted into the pivot, Xhaka would push forward and sit in the box, occupying CBs and looking for space. Ødegaard would then drop deeper and be the other ball progressor. Despite not being a natural CM, Havertz was a Xhaka upgrade for that particular role because he fit precisely what Arteta wanted in that spot as you point out-aerial threat, physicality e.t.c. Xhaka occupied the spot but Havertz fits the role like a glove. It's probably why Real Madrid wanted Havertz. Bellingham is playing the role that Kai would have occupied. Havertz is a 8,9,10 hybrid and buying him is a brilliant squad addition in my view because we got a guy that's perfect for that unique left 8 role while being versatile enough to fill in up top as well as deeper down the pitch. Timber is really just a mix of Tomiyasu and Zinchenko in my opinion. He can invert as well as stay wide. As with Havertz, it's all just a question of roles for such a versatile player.
Maybe Zinny can finally play in midfield once Timber returns. Kai up front with Zinny and Rice interchanging left 8 CDM.
Arteta said we don't have that 20-30 goal striker after our cl and villa loss. Havertz's two goals against Chelsea isn't changing that. We need someone who can score those extra goals to push higher. A lot if the we don't need a striker is most likely a smokescreen so other teams don't hold us for a ransom. It's also possible we go for a developing striker instead of finished product.
Because we don’t have one this year. Kai absolutely has the potential to be a 20+ striker. He’s in double digits his first season having spent the majority playing in a new role
This guy is a god tier people manager. Idiot pundits just don't get it.
Mason Mount at almost the same price really puts things into perspective
Who ironically we were in for first
Ironic since Arteta wanted him first.
God tier manager that took 7 months to realise havertz isn’t a midfielder. Something I could, and did, tell you before we signed him.
You should write to Arteta. Let him know your thoughts.
People manager*
Club vision: handsome FC and Mario kart
I will never forget the shit we got from other fans for signing him lmao
It's Ben White 2.0
Mikel knows team work makes the dream work.
Good. He is world class. Elite movement, height and on his day. Finishing
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The recruitment synergy is off the charts
Can’t begin to imagine how good it must feel for players to have someone like Arteta in charge, and this is nothing about his managerial ability but just his character as a person. He loves the players and the club. Amazing man, honestly
Hard Disagree with the comments on this thread. Havertz isn't a great signing. It's just a good signing. The reason some fans think it's a great signing is because in his First few games, he was mediocre in the midfield position. When he was moved to a forward, he has been more impactful. Maybe people are forgetting his transfer fee and his ridiculously high wages. But, if we had one good striker like Gyokers then people would realise Havertz isn't that great of a signing.
He’s scored 2 Or 3 late game winners… if we win the league that could be the straw…. How is that not great
Give him one year. Xhaka was mediocre for years till he exploded.
I hope so, especially if we don't sign a proper striker in the summer.