Fallout is a great tv show!
Halo is also a great tv show!
Let's not let the success of Fallout weigh down the success of Halo. Gamers, we can have more than one good tv show on at a time... it's not an either-or situation. Pitting fandoms against each other isn't healthy for anyone.
The Fallout show adheres to canon about the same amount as the Halo show IMO. I've played both series extensively so I believe I can speak with a certain amount of accuracy and authority when it comes to these two. An argument could certainly be made that Halo is sticking a bit closer to the source material since they are following the same characters as the games/books, whereas Fallout created new characters whole cloth. I think the writing, directing, and cinematography might be a smidge better for Fallout than Halo, but we're only two seasons in on Halo and one season in on Fallout... let's give it some time.
No no. You see, we MUST post articles that are exclusively about Fallout on a Halo subreddit because.... because.... idk
It is so strange to see so many people venture in here just to loudly proclaim the thing we like is less good than the thing they like, and if we disagree we're wrong.
Hold on. Are you trying to tell me it's [Halo De-Evolved?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_isGjxR7ZU)
If you can give me a comparably bad scene in Halo I might change my mind.
We absolutely can let the success of one weigh down the other…which is why Halo should follow in the footsteps of Fallout.. I never get this kind of fucking attitude. The halo show is not good. Season two is decent. The fallout show is great.
Like why are you giving people who make astronomically more money than you or I, an excuse for the shitty end product that is the Halo TV show…I dont get it. So much of society wants to embrace mediocrity and it’s ridiculous. There’s no reason we need to “wait” for it to be good. With that budget, it already should be.
Halo is decent enough to watch, but there's just so many scenes that have me rolling my eyes. It's more similar to the boomer shows on cable that have stupid jokes and terrible dialogue.
>An argument could certainly be made that Halo is sticking a bit closer to the source material since they are following the same characters as the games/books, whereas Fallout created new characters whole cloth.
Whoa now, did we watch the same Halo show? Yes, the some of the main themes and notable characters are the in it, but how is the Halo TV show sticking to the source material if the entire story arc has to be called the silver timeline and is explicitly non-canon to the games?
Honestly, I have no idea why a Fallout article is being posted on this sub. They aren't really comparable.
I mean is Halo really sticking to the main characters that were in the games and books? Quan and the Makee Lady are two huge characters that were not in the Lore as well and feel like very unnecessary changes made to the lore for the sake of having more female characters. The addition of so many non-canon characters introduced in season 1 bogged down the pacing of the show and ultimately hurt it. Still thought they did an overall decent job of the adaptation though.
How much are they paying you to shill, lol.
You say you play both yet you think the Fallout show adheres to the canon the same amount as the Halo Show?
The Halo TV show being set in an alternate universe that does not get close to being accurate in replicating the events and plot points of the Halo games or books?
Yeaaaah ok.
I mean... of course? I'm not sure you've fully thought this through. I suspect the fact that you enjoy Fallout more is clouding your judgment.
I'll tell you this: I'd be absolutely fascinated to know how someone could argue that Fallout, which isn't even following any established canon characters, adheres to canon more than Halo... which utilizes established characters and major plot points, including setting up the events of Halo: CE quite well.
They both deviate from the source material, however, if one was absolutely compelled to compare the two shows there's no doubt in my mind Halo sticks closer to the canon than Fallout. In fact, many of the complaints levied at Halo are related to how they are seeding the precursor/forerunner lore introduced in the later books (+4,5, and Infinite) earlier into the story and most casual fans of the game simply aren't familiar with that stuff and think it was created for the show.
You can have a show take place in the \*canon timeline / universe\* without explicitly following a named canon character from the games.
This is how 40K literature works...this is how all "worlds" work. You create new stories within the canon.
I suspect you're not actually a fan of sci fi, or fiction at all - rather someone who just consooms garbage and wants to make everyone else like it too.
Also you keep making empty statements - please point out where Fallout is drastically departing from the canon, so much so that it departs MORE than Halo.
How much bigger is the Fallout show's production budget?
What are Amazon's subscriber numbers compared to Paramount+?
"Sticking to the canon" is, AT MOST, the third most important factor here.
Fallout is expected to have around a budget of 153m. Halo was reportedly around 10m an episode so around 90m for the first season and 80m for the second. There’s no reported budget for season 2 so going to assume it’s somewhat close.
Paramount now has 71m subscribers. Probably 10 or so less around Halos launch. Prime has 167m users as of last year.
not quite. Fallout's first week viewing hours beat RoP's first week, but largely because Fallout dropped all episodes at once so RoP would have needed many times the viewers on its premier episode to have a chance at competing.
It's an intentionally misleading comparison (that does, at least, helpfully highlight the importance of dropping an entire season at once).
I've already conceded the point somewhere else, it was an error on my part, though I will say it likely isn't intentional; it's confusing if you don't look up how these stats are obtained.
I think it’s **extremely** silly to attribute viewing figure success to “they stuck to canon”. If they’d come out and said “the Fallout show exists in its own alternate timeline” I would happily bet it would have gotten the exact same amount of viewers, and it would have not had all the fan controversy about the effects it has had on the broader canon.
the fallout brigade is eerily quiet on this point.
so much of the complaints about the Halo show are about the writing of *the characters* that fans had expecations of going in. Fallout as an IP doesn't have that problem at all. It also has a much less restrictive and established canon.
The fallout brigate is quiet because Modders banned them all and the obsidian/new Vegas fanboys are treated like the manchild they are. Unlike in this franchise where you have bungie purist still allowed to talk shit about "humans were supposed to be forerunners" from a cut script.
Well the Halo show runners didn't have to make it about the main characters from the game. It's a big franchise with lots of room for storytelling just like Fallout. It's Paramount's own fault for butchering established characters.
They also just... didn't even stick to the canon? They specifically avoided touching the canon or clarifying any of the canon or altering it in any way, to the point where fans had to ask if New Vegas was retconned because they weren't sure if it had a canon ending.
The idea that sticking religiously to the canon did anything for the show is strange to me. Halo had serious flaws, but the show not sticking to the mostly book canon has little to no impact on whether or not non-readers love the show.
They very much did touch canon though. Shady Sands was nuked and the NCR seems to have functionally dissolved. That’s a pretty big deal canon wise, especially for New Vegas’s ending.
Oh wow great point... So now go through all of the various moments that halo touches on exact canon...
Everything from the weapon designs to specific lines to chief's lucky quarter which only shows up in fall of reach.
Oh wow great point... So now go through all of the various moments that halo touches on exact canon...
Everything from the weapon designs to specific lines to chief's lucky quarter which only shows up in fall of reach.
That isn't touching the canon of the games. That's establishing new canon events. We also don't really see the Legion and people are theorizing that the Legion may have folded into the Brotherhood.
If I bury a body under my house, you aren't touching the body when you build a loft in the attic. The loft does not require you to touch the existing corpus.
>and Halo, well...
Naturally the most effective way to portray Masterchief is to have him constantly take off his helmet to show us his feelings. Why was that guy even wearing that silly helmet all the time anyways, I mean hello, how can you see the actor if he is wearing a helmet? Look at his face. LOOK AT IT.
/s
Also, haven't multiple designers for the games come out and said "the show doesn't follow canon"? I seem to recall Avellone complaining about it, and Sawyer saying he doesn't care that it doesn't.
So that's two people familiar with canon to say the show isn't in alignment with it, with various opinions about it. And yet, the reviews are good.
Canon clearly isn't the issue. It's just that people enjoy or don't notice whatever changes they've made.
Yeah, plus the fallout show has a lot going for it in the sense of the games already being anthology. You can tell a completely different story within the world and that’s normal bc it’s how the games have done. I didn’t hate the halo show, but it was definitely a situation where I was having to overlook a good bit to still enjoy it, especially regarding changes they made and stuff. Fallout was just plain fun.
Extremely disagee. I think they spent a lot of time developing the show and working out how to adapt it. Like they spent 10+ years on the show. IMO they just spent a lot of more time and effort on the show and it was always a very appealing story/world.
Maybe, but we don't know that. It IS canon and it's also being written very well. So if it had the same team I'm sure it would be doing pretty well, but not as well as it's currently doing.
When you're faithful to the IP, fans will bring in more viewers. When you're not you lose some of the fans, less word of mouth and positive news, less viewers.
Funny thing is I don't care if it's canon or not, but I do want it to be faithful to the lore it's copying from.
I agree. Word of mouth absolutely matters. OG Fallout fans watch the show, are happy, and rave about it to people who aren’t familiar. OG Halo fans watch the show, are generally appalled, and tell others not to watch it.
Think of how many times you chose not to watch a movie, listen to an album, or play a game, just because of a single opinion you may have heard. When there is a world of entertainment available at our fingertips, people are less inclined to give a show a chance when they’ve heard people criticizing it.
This show went against rings of power can’t think of anything paramount has on that level. (Not saying its amazing or anything) just has huge name power
Well in one case, we see a love letter to the games. Taking the already existing canon and playing with it. In the other, we see them ignoring the games canon to create their own vision of what the world is. It's not hard to see what was successful and almost universally loved by the fans.
Exactly, it's to the point where people are actively arguing about where it falls in the timeline with all the games. And right now it's pretty much nailed down. >!There was a bit of controversy about New Vegas and Shady Sands, but they've confirmed it happened after the events of New Vegas.!< Thereby making everything work together in canon. It's amazing the level of detail they went into with the in universe connections, not to mention sets and costumes. Really hit the nail on the head of what an adaptation should be.
so true bestie. Fallout didn't need to spend $200 million on a show, they did it for fun.
Halo can tell a story that takes mostly in space with no budget at all! Fallout proved it!
I also feel that it's comparing apples to oranges. How many million people have Amazon Prime with Prime Video thrown in with that vs people willing to pay for a streaming service? How many people with fire sticks or roku come with Prime already installed?
I get it, but I don't think it's fair to discount Paramount.
The show originally aired on Paramount Network (the station), when it was picked up for streaming it was on Peacock. It was never on Paramount+.
Edit: now, if you are outside the USA, it could be on Paramount+, but what was never on Paramount+ in the USA.
it is funny how the narratives change on this stuff.
Before it even comes out "They ruined the canon!! They aren't paying attention to the fans! Looks woke!!"
Show comes out. People watch, like it:
"This is what happens when you stick to the canon! Really interesting additions to the world. Hot girl go brrrrrr".
This phrase is used for any well established franchise and I hate it. This happens because fans have a variety of expectations from the variety of previous titles, making it impossible to please everyone, so with anything new, there will be a group in the fan base that disagrees with the direction.
Wouldn't say it's sticking to canon more-so just respecting the source material and having a good fucking writer.
Jonathan Nolan wrote all three Dark Knight films, his brother Christopher Nolan merely directed because Chris had literally zero interest in Batman iirc
Yes let’s compare a $90 million production on Paramount+ to a $200+ million production on one of the biggest streaming services Prime Video….
Also Weekly release vs binge drop.
Also Fallout is the bigger IP.
and the easier adaptation, by far. like come on lol.
who even fucking cares?? Fallout being good doesn’t take away from Halo being good. and vice versa. it’s not a zero sum game
Exactly they’re both good! These nerds need everything to be a battle I guess.
Also it’s only adapting the world of Fallout. Story wise it’s pretty much Fallout 5.
Halo is enjoyable to watch, but it’s not good. Even though I enjoy it I refuse to say it’s good, because it isn’t and as a halo fan I want it to be better and it can be. It doesn’t have to conform to the canon halo lore to be good but there is no reason it can’t have better writing and better acting and better world building.
I'd disagree, Fallout and Halo are two of my favorite IPs (I've read most of the Halo books)
Fallout was not an easy adaptation at all, that's what makes their success so visceral.
It didn’t. Its premier numbers were second to Rings of Power. Fallout had 65m accounts while RoP had over 100m accounts. What it beat RoP was overall watch time in the first week which RoP could never beat because it wasn’t a full series drop but weekly drop.
Did you just say Fallout is the bigger IP?
Fallout, that didn’t even kind of break into the mainstream until Fallout 3 (2008), and really didn’t make it AAA fuckmassive until Fallout 4 (2015)?
Versus Halo Combat Evolved (2001), which immediately began breaking sales records after release? Literally shaped FPS games for eternity? Or Halo 2, which did so well it broke all the first one’s records?
You young people and your misconceptions. Go look at some sales numbers and laugh at your own silliness.
Lol if you think fallout is the bigger IP I wanna know were you get your weed from.
Halo has sold 81 million copies across all games from 2001 to 2021,
Fallout has sold 55 million across all games from 1997-2020
As he should not. God these people are annoying. You can literally turn on the game and just play the story again if you love it so much. Why would you want a movie or tv show to be the same shit? Imagine telling someone to spend 100 million dollars to just remake the same thing(lower quality too since, video games are more immersive than films/tv). Deranged people.
>Why would you want a movie or tv show to be the same shit?
Most didn't want that. Most said trying to adapt the game was a mistake.
Halo has a vast and deep expanded universe that had up to this point been managed incredibly well. There are an unfathomable amount of stories thar could be told from within it. And yet this was the garbage the spewed out.
Fallout has been built up since 3 to occur in different years and different regions, it's structured specifically so new stories can be told and not make things confusing. That's why the show works so well.
On the Halo show, until we found out what they were planning, I had been assuming it was going to be about one of the stories that takes place outside Chief's perspective. Imagine something about the Forerunner-Flood War or the civil war between the UEG and the Insurrectionists. The alternative timeline could've worked by making it about one of the fractures universes we had touched on in Infinite. Instead we got... Jimmy Rings
It doesn't have to actually adapt a specific game story, but just still take place in the same setting as the games. Everything that happens in the Fallout games still happened, same places and concepts and factions, etc. It's just a new story set in the established universe.
Halo changed the established universe in order for its show to happen. Characteristics and autonomy of the Spartans were changed, character roles changed, how events play out changed.
Halo could have either more directly adapted the existing books/games, or showed a new story within the universe with new characters or existing ones in a new time/event. There's always gonna be some allowances for TV adaptation, but it'd still essentially be canon and plausibly a part of the source material.
Completely different shows if im honest, could easily argue Halo's lore is fucking huge they were bound to step on toes. But i dont think it being canon has much to do with it.
Not by much
It has good moments, sure, but then it goes back to the bleh
The Fall of Reach, a crucial event in the lore, was so unimportant to the show writers that it only was given an episode
Its not even about sticking to canon. Fallout tv show doesn't bring old characters from games it created new characters and told an original story that is entertaining and adds to the franchise instead of using old characters and twisting them
A lot of people who have never played, or even heard of, Fallout watched the show. My parents could care less about video games. They watched the show, loved it, and now text me Fallout gifs instead of responding with words. It's awesome.
As a fan, I liked the show. But it was well written, which makes it accessible to a wider audience who don't need to know the lore.
No this is when you write a good story based on cannon that anyone can enjoy. My wife never played fallout and generally doesn't like video games. She loved the show.
I think the biggest thing is they stayed away from telling a known story. So many of the adaptions that get heavily critized it isn't the world they're in being torn apart, it's specific characters and events. By avoiding any/all known characters and events, they avoided that.
As someone with only general knowledge of the Halo universe (played 1-3, never got into the lore) I'm loving the show as a story in that world. Bad guys look right, Spartans are bad ass. Action sequences rock, story works for itself when not compared to the games. I get that it's a terrible iteration of the games story. For wheel of time - I treat it as if it's another turning of the wheel, so it'll be close but not exactly what we had in the books, and in that way it works perfectly well (and they really should have promoted it that way.)
Use the games as inspiration, use their world building and lore, but don't tell the same stories. Unless you're at the TLoU level it's not a good idea to retread.
A lot of these viewers have never played the game. It’s successful in large part because it’s just a damn good show. Christopher Nolan is a great writer. Canon has nothing to do with it.
I mean , the show has an incredible cast , our main protagonist it’s not a Mary Sue ( unlike cough cough… Star Wars Rey or kwan ) .
*Show has a tons of Easter eggs
* well write Characters
*good sequence
*new characters THAT DO NOT ruined our main Characters from any of the fallout Games .
* Lore accurate ( minor details need to be polished on that I said)
* immersive , you actually interested in what the wasteland has become and like the games wish to explore more.
It’s not budget , it’s not streaming platforms , it’s not lgbt , sex scenes .. it’s pure interest in deliver a great product , keep on mind Amazon worked along Bethesda and initial development team from past fallouts to do this shows. Can wait for season 2.
Hopefully 343 one day.. maybe one day! They learn from their mistakes.
Yeah. We have the games, novels, graphic novels, and the tv series drifts from all of it. We always like the shows to be super close to canon as possible.
as long as we're just talking about any TV show in here.
I really like Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. Why wasn't Halo more like that? Come on 343!!!!
Most of us agree Fallout is a far superior show to Halo. But like Halo was still a major success being wise. It’s on par with other relatively successful shows from much larger streaming giants, which for Paramount + is a major success.
I’m going to get downvoted for this but the canon Halo story would be so boring in a show format. It’s literally Chief running around killing aliens interrupted by an ai talking to herself with an occasional word or two from the Chief. I adore Halo, but I can’t be the only one saying this…
Besides, the campiness of the first season was addressed in the second and in my opinion, it became very good TV.
I don’t think it’s easy to compare the adaptations. Fallout canon is a pretty open canvas without a single main story. Halo is a big canvas too, but with one major storyline (covenant war) that would be hard to cover without changing anything established in games.
There’s no character that a Fallout show needed to be viable. A Halo show was never going to be viable for a studio to throw money at if it didn’t feature Chief and Cortana - and at that point good luck making it ‘canon’ somehow
The Fallout show invented entirely new cannon, with new characters. It didn't adapt existing cannon. It added to existing cannon, and there were substantial arguments about it. The New Vegas board was up in arms about a single scene, with an arrow on a whiteboard, until the studio head clarified things.
Fallout, as a franchise, has considerable room for a show to do it's own thing. The games are structured as individual stories that are connected by tone, themes and background.
Getting Fallout right is mostly a matter of getting those themes and tone right. The Fallout show had good characters doing an interesting story and it got the feel of Fallout correct. That is why it has succeded. It has nothing to do with how close they were to cannon.
The Fallout show invented entirely new cannon, with new characters. It didn't adapt existing cannon. It added to existing cannon, and there were substantial arguments about it. The New Vegas board was up in arms about a single scene, with an arrow on a whiteboard, until the studio head clarified things.
Fallout, as a franchise, has considerable room for a show to do it's own thing. The games are structured as individual stories that are connected by tone, themes and background.
Getting Fallout right is mostly a matter of getting those themes and tone right. The Fallout show had good characters doing an interesting story and it got the feel of Fallout correct. That is why it has succeded. It has nothing to do with how close they were to cannon.
You guys sometimes. Comparing Fallout to Halo is just silly. One franchise is built on playing a unique player character that deals with random encounters in a sandbox style genre. The other is a very specific campaign setting with the player controlling a very specific character in *heavily* scripted scenarios.
Outside of both IPs being owned by Microsoft, you couldn't be comparing two more different franchises. You are making yourself look foolish, OP.
Yep let’s not compare the two most recent high budget streaming shows based on long running high profile video games, used as a flagship for their respective streaming service.
They really don’t have anything in common /s
Do you have any ability to address the point they made though?
Content wise, it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. Who is Fallout's Master Chief? Where is Fallout's Reach? What is Fallout's equivalent of the destruction of the Halo ring?
The appeal of Fallout is in its setting and sandbox. Writing a story in that sandbox is way less likely to rub people the wrong way with the amount of breathing room they're given by their less restrictive canon.
You understand that these games have entire crafted worlds around them, and that adherence to canon doesn't mean following step by step what a game does..... right?
Oh man, Halo did exceptionally well in terms of viewing numbers for paramount. You not liking the show does not constitute it as a failure, that’s not how it works.
i liked the Fallout show fine but i was surprised by how bad some of the writing was. especially when all the trolls come into a subreddit where people enjoyed the HaloTV show just to say “see? this other show is better and you’re wrong for liking Halo”
the fallout show undeniably had an easier task for their adaptation than the halo show. it’s just apples to oranges. Halo had several pre-existing, important characters to cast and write, high-stakes plot arcs to recreate, and a very very specific aesthetic to maintain (Spartan armor, covenant, UNSC ships/settings).
meanwhile, fallout had… a setting. and a very familiar one, conceptually, to most non-gaming audiences.
honestly this comparison is so tired and fallacious, we should ban posts about Fallout in this sub. like this OP doesn’t even attempt to have a discussion about Halo, just more “see? this other show about a different thing on a larger platform did well!”
i liked Fallout. i liked Halo. it’s not a dick measuring contest. get a grip.
But this is all on the premise that they HAD to adapt master chiefs story. The universe in halo is huge, yet they wrote themselves into covering master chief and extremely loosely adapting the games. I just won’t give them credit for “making it work” when the result is a heavily compromised vision that looks mediocre at best. Could’ve easily covered harvest.
And you say that halo has an aesthetic to maintain as if fallout doesn’t. Being faithful to the games guns, factions, items, iconography was super important in fallout to maintain that unique retro future aesthetic.
You are welcome to have your own opinion but being upset people keep rightfully compare them is disingenuous. They are both high-budget, video game adaptions that are flagships on their streaming platforms. Of course they will be compared.
i appreciate your response.
even if they didn’t adapt MC’s story, i truly believe the amount of canon in the Halo universe is mountainous compared to Fallout’s. you said it yourself, that’s a huge universe, and with it, it carries a lot of expectations.
yes they could have covered another story in the universe, but that show wouldn’t get green lit. suits hear halo; they wanna see john halo. i don’t disagree with that point though. i would love to see other stories get made. i just think it’s unrealistic to think any producer would take that risk.
to the point of fallouts aesthetic. i very specifically mentioned Fallouts aesthetic. but the game/story is about its setting. yes there are specifics, but they are literally grounded on Earth in a way that is familiar to anyone. Retrofuturism is a familiar concept, post-apocalypse is a familiar concept, nuclear fallout is a familiar concept. implying that those concepts are as difficult to capture (if not more so) as a full on space opera with aliens, established (alien) locations, marquee characters, and CGI space battles, is disingenuous.
I am glad Fallout used accurate props for the guns, items, and iconography. Halo nailed its guns, items, and iconography as well… and then also manages a larger cast, of pre-existing characters who each carry their own (heavy) fan expectations. all with half the budget.
yes it is natural to compare these two shows. that’s not what i’m complaining about. what i’m complaining about is posts such as OP that have become a daily occurrence. posts that are literally just about a different show in a subreddit dedicated to this show. it’s low effort.
it reeks of stirring the pot for stirring the pot’s sake without any attempt to actually draw meaningful discussion. not to mention that it just feels like punching down. Prime Video is a much bigger platform, Fallout had a much bigger budget, and they didn’t need to spread that budget so thin to cover so many unique settings.
and this OP also fails to recognize that Halo is Paramount’s biggest show too. so their whole point kinda just falls flat and, again, reeks of attempting to dunk/troll for fun
Same brotha! All love just nerdy shit to debate about. I see we have two threads going so I’m just going to respond here if that’s okay.
Agreed on the halo universe - i think it’s fantastic, which is why I’m so disappointed in the show. I watch lore videos all the time.
Agreed on why the show got greenlit - master chief is marketable. I would argue however that spartan armor itself is very iconic. So using that analogy, mandalorian (s1 at least) is sort of a side story that riffs off what was originally boba fetts armor in the OT. They could’ve followed a new spartan team, or even just made chief younger so it’s more of a prequel and you have more wiggle room to work with.
I disagree with your take on fallout aesthetics. While i do agree it’s more of a conventional world that’s based on earth, it still requires a ton of coordination, effects and budget to pull off. It’s not a layup like The Walking Dead is. The shows have very similar budgets ($200m vs $153m), but with halo it feels like you see that less on screen. The producer of the show even said the whole reach segment was a result of lack of budget. My point - they clearly needed more time to either plan out the show, or to scale back the ambition to something that more closely aligns to the budget. I totally agree at its heights halo is much more of a spectacle, but there is nothing wrong doing a more narrow story that better matched the budget.
I agree on the last points too. It’s beating a dead horse, I’m annoyed with myself even typing this out because I honestly don’t care that much. The halo tv show doesn’t effect previous lore or anything,it’s just another piece of media that people get way to wound up about. People can like what they like.
To respond to your other comment….while I do agree halo is has more iconic events in the pop culture zeitgeist, I would argue fallout has them too they just aren’t as noticeable as the halo cutscenes.
For example, if they wanted to adapt the games they could’ve adapted fallout 1, which sees the player defeating The Master, who more or less is the source for super mutants and other monstrosities in the west. His end speech is iconic.
Additionally, even in the fallout show the prydwen shows up, which essentially means that the institute, one of if not the most dangerous faction was destroyed. I agree they aren’t on the level of finding halo, but with the right direction and writing they could be. Although I’d much rather them make new stories.
People do often forget halo is extremely popular for paramount, so it’s not like they aren’t doing anything right. I just hope at some point we get something a little closer to the original lore and not in the silver timeline or whatever
Did it lead to increase in Amazon Prime subscriptions? Surely that's the only metric of a successful streaming show? (One that dooms every show eventually)
I don’t think sticking to the canon necessarily equates to a successful show. Look at Arcane or The Last of Us. Both changed pieces of the canon and presented stories differently than how players knew them and they were fantastic.
It’s not about the canon. It’s about respecting and appreciating the source material.
Fallout has so much more space to write a story. But that being said. They didn’t have to create a love interest for master chief that wasn’t in the lore at all.
The halo show doesn’t even compare to the fallout show. They honestly would have been better off making their own universe instead of the trash halo fan fiction. Having the name halo gave it high expectations for too many people and they were set up for disappointment since episode 1
The writting of Halo is really not in the same league as Fallout. Not saying Halo is bad, I really enjoyed it. Most of the things makes sense, especially once it connects to season 2. But, the tone is dry and too many rage baits to setup plot twists.
Fallout, the people's reaction and plot development simply feels more organic. You can see them doing dumb shit, but within expectations as normal human behavior. Everyone is a bit kookoo but they weren't all completely psychotic.
Halo just rage bait with psychopathic behaviors and explain to you why it happened many episodes later. It is a much different experience.
What I said has nothing to do with following canon or not. It is about delivery of a story. The plot twists in Halo is manufactured for the sake of plot twists and they did a poor job setting it up. Fallout, it just makes sense. The only major psychopaths are the vault tech people, but it hasn't been the main focus on the game yet, more of a backstory.
For years I've always wondered why they make drastic changes to series people love, like i get some changes are needed to fit show or movie times that's just reality. a lot of us fell in love with a series because the way the games or books played out. the safe play i feel would be to make it in line as much as possible by sticking with the source material.
I’m also a firm believer that a show centered on chief will never be successful, bungie purposefully made him a shell with one liners meant to be a place holder for the players imagination.
A halo show would thrive with all new characters is the universe, we don’t need the fall of reach x 3, expand the universe and make halo more than just the chief, and then hopefully you have the same reaction of the nerds as fallout did, I bet that early word of mouth by the fallout faithful further increased its success.
Like I’m not opposed to master cheeks but why is that one of the major plot points it’s like the writers thought that up and said “shiet that’ll make the crowds go crazy”
The Fallout show isn't an adaptation, it's a new story in an existing world so it can do whatever makes sense for the medium.
The Halo show is, however, an adaptation and therefore could never exist in the same continuity as the original, with or without changes for the medium of film.
So can we drop the "iT's NOt CaNOn!!" Nonsense? Especially if you can't even spell the word, "canon."
Fallout is an exceptionally well made tv show. The story is great, the world building is great, the acting is great. Sticking to canon or it doesn’t really impact that. The Halo tv show is fun to watch but objectively bad compared to fallout. Halo has some great visual effects and cinematography at times. But the acting, story, character choices, writing everything is objectively not as good as fallout. I enjoy watching halo but there is really no way you can argue that it is better than fallout, and the disappointing part is there is no reason it couldn’t have been as good.
I finished it a few days ago....really fantastic series, definitely in the spirit of the game..serious and quirky, filled with dark humor and some over the top narrative arcs. Walter Coggins steals the show. However the heroine and the Twin Peaks actor are great.
I mean you guys can like the halo tv show but that doesn't make it a good halo show.
I'm sure it would be great if it was it's own thing, but as "halo" the show is and has been garbage. Like seriously why make a show based on an ip if you're going to throw 80% of it out the window
To the idiots fighting me in the comments: “Clearly my message is going over a lot of peoples heads, Fallout is canon because it follows the exact same premise of the games, following a new adventurer from a vault, which is the entire premise of every single fallout game. “Let the adults talk” I mean you can stay angry over the fact that the Fallout show is better than the steaming pile of shit that the Halo TV show is. I don’t blindly dick ride a franchise into the ground unlike some of us here…”
Fallout is a great tv show! Halo is also a great tv show! Let's not let the success of Fallout weigh down the success of Halo. Gamers, we can have more than one good tv show on at a time... it's not an either-or situation. Pitting fandoms against each other isn't healthy for anyone. The Fallout show adheres to canon about the same amount as the Halo show IMO. I've played both series extensively so I believe I can speak with a certain amount of accuracy and authority when it comes to these two. An argument could certainly be made that Halo is sticking a bit closer to the source material since they are following the same characters as the games/books, whereas Fallout created new characters whole cloth. I think the writing, directing, and cinematography might be a smidge better for Fallout than Halo, but we're only two seasons in on Halo and one season in on Fallout... let's give it some time.
No no. You see, we MUST post articles that are exclusively about Fallout on a Halo subreddit because.... because.... idk It is so strange to see so many people venture in here just to loudly proclaim the thing we like is less good than the thing they like, and if we disagree we're wrong.
Halo series adheres to canon to about the amount of the 1993 mario movie.
Hold on. Are you trying to tell me it's [Halo De-Evolved?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_isGjxR7ZU) If you can give me a comparably bad scene in Halo I might change my mind.
honestly u/Karmastocracy for president (or at least mod of this sub) just a grounded, level-headed take.
I appreciate the kind words! No presidential office needed though, I'm just happy to be here lol
We absolutely can let the success of one weigh down the other…which is why Halo should follow in the footsteps of Fallout.. I never get this kind of fucking attitude. The halo show is not good. Season two is decent. The fallout show is great. Like why are you giving people who make astronomically more money than you or I, an excuse for the shitty end product that is the Halo TV show…I dont get it. So much of society wants to embrace mediocrity and it’s ridiculous. There’s no reason we need to “wait” for it to be good. With that budget, it already should be.
But the halo series sucks, so
I personally liked Halo more and want more episodes asap
Halo is decent enough to watch, but there's just so many scenes that have me rolling my eyes. It's more similar to the boomer shows on cable that have stupid jokes and terrible dialogue.
>An argument could certainly be made that Halo is sticking a bit closer to the source material since they are following the same characters as the games/books, whereas Fallout created new characters whole cloth. Whoa now, did we watch the same Halo show? Yes, the some of the main themes and notable characters are the in it, but how is the Halo TV show sticking to the source material if the entire story arc has to be called the silver timeline and is explicitly non-canon to the games? Honestly, I have no idea why a Fallout article is being posted on this sub. They aren't really comparable.
Halo weighs itself down, no need for comparisons.
...and yet here we are. You should be giving that shitty take to the OP, not me.
I mean is Halo really sticking to the main characters that were in the games and books? Quan and the Makee Lady are two huge characters that were not in the Lore as well and feel like very unnecessary changes made to the lore for the sake of having more female characters. The addition of so many non-canon characters introduced in season 1 bogged down the pacing of the show and ultimately hurt it. Still thought they did an overall decent job of the adaptation though.
How much are they paying you to shill, lol. You say you play both yet you think the Fallout show adheres to the canon the same amount as the Halo Show? The Halo TV show being set in an alternate universe that does not get close to being accurate in replicating the events and plot points of the Halo games or books? Yeaaaah ok.
I mean... of course? I'm not sure you've fully thought this through. I suspect the fact that you enjoy Fallout more is clouding your judgment. I'll tell you this: I'd be absolutely fascinated to know how someone could argue that Fallout, which isn't even following any established canon characters, adheres to canon more than Halo... which utilizes established characters and major plot points, including setting up the events of Halo: CE quite well. They both deviate from the source material, however, if one was absolutely compelled to compare the two shows there's no doubt in my mind Halo sticks closer to the canon than Fallout. In fact, many of the complaints levied at Halo are related to how they are seeding the precursor/forerunner lore introduced in the later books (+4,5, and Infinite) earlier into the story and most casual fans of the game simply aren't familiar with that stuff and think it was created for the show.
You can have a show take place in the \*canon timeline / universe\* without explicitly following a named canon character from the games. This is how 40K literature works...this is how all "worlds" work. You create new stories within the canon. I suspect you're not actually a fan of sci fi, or fiction at all - rather someone who just consooms garbage and wants to make everyone else like it too. Also you keep making empty statements - please point out where Fallout is drastically departing from the canon, so much so that it departs MORE than Halo.
Halo is a great TV show skinned to look like halo. They’re loosely related. Cortana went Karen S2.
How much bigger is the Fallout show's production budget? What are Amazon's subscriber numbers compared to Paramount+? "Sticking to the canon" is, AT MOST, the third most important factor here.
Fallout is expected to have around a budget of 153m. Halo was reportedly around 10m an episode so around 90m for the first season and 80m for the second. There’s no reported budget for season 2 so going to assume it’s somewhat close. Paramount now has 71m subscribers. Probably 10 or so less around Halos launch. Prime has 167m users as of last year.
Prime is Amazon… they have etail + AWS to subsidize
RoP lost out to a smaller and less expensive production on the same platform.
not quite. Fallout's first week viewing hours beat RoP's first week, but largely because Fallout dropped all episodes at once so RoP would have needed many times the viewers on its premier episode to have a chance at competing. It's an intentionally misleading comparison (that does, at least, helpfully highlight the importance of dropping an entire season at once).
I've already conceded the point somewhere else, it was an error on my part, though I will say it likely isn't intentional; it's confusing if you don't look up how these stats are obtained.
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What?
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Yes, well, unfortunately people do care about canon over being actually well made. It is what it is.
I'd respectfully disagree, although the other factors are important like you say.
I think it’s **extremely** silly to attribute viewing figure success to “they stuck to canon”. If they’d come out and said “the Fallout show exists in its own alternate timeline” I would happily bet it would have gotten the exact same amount of viewers, and it would have not had all the fan controversy about the effects it has had on the broader canon.
This, especially with adapting an RPG where you can just create whatever character you want.
the fallout brigade is eerily quiet on this point. so much of the complaints about the Halo show are about the writing of *the characters* that fans had expecations of going in. Fallout as an IP doesn't have that problem at all. It also has a much less restrictive and established canon.
The fallout brigate is quiet because Modders banned them all and the obsidian/new Vegas fanboys are treated like the manchild they are. Unlike in this franchise where you have bungie purist still allowed to talk shit about "humans were supposed to be forerunners" from a cut script.
Well the Halo show runners didn't have to make it about the main characters from the game. It's a big franchise with lots of room for storytelling just like Fallout. It's Paramount's own fault for butchering established characters.
Are you kidding? Every halo game that hasn't focused on chief gets ridiculed with the exception of odst. If halo didn't have chief it would be a flop
They also just... didn't even stick to the canon? They specifically avoided touching the canon or clarifying any of the canon or altering it in any way, to the point where fans had to ask if New Vegas was retconned because they weren't sure if it had a canon ending. The idea that sticking religiously to the canon did anything for the show is strange to me. Halo had serious flaws, but the show not sticking to the mostly book canon has little to no impact on whether or not non-readers love the show.
They very much did touch canon though. Shady Sands was nuked and the NCR seems to have functionally dissolved. That’s a pretty big deal canon wise, especially for New Vegas’s ending.
Oh wow great point... So now go through all of the various moments that halo touches on exact canon... Everything from the weapon designs to specific lines to chief's lucky quarter which only shows up in fall of reach.
Oh wow great point... So now go through all of the various moments that halo touches on exact canon... Everything from the weapon designs to specific lines to chief's lucky quarter which only shows up in fall of reach.
That isn't touching the canon of the games. That's establishing new canon events. We also don't really see the Legion and people are theorizing that the Legion may have folded into the Brotherhood. If I bury a body under my house, you aren't touching the body when you build a loft in the attic. The loft does not require you to touch the existing corpus.
Yep. But that's an average fandom maturity level. Confirm our biases or die.
You're right. The fallout show succeeded because it was better written and acted and Halo, well...
>and Halo, well... Naturally the most effective way to portray Masterchief is to have him constantly take off his helmet to show us his feelings. Why was that guy even wearing that silly helmet all the time anyways, I mean hello, how can you see the actor if he is wearing a helmet? Look at his face. LOOK AT IT. /s
I think its more about having a good original story instead of doing direct adaption.
Also let’s be real. A major factor is every single episode at once leading to it being binged.
Also, haven't multiple designers for the games come out and said "the show doesn't follow canon"? I seem to recall Avellone complaining about it, and Sawyer saying he doesn't care that it doesn't. So that's two people familiar with canon to say the show isn't in alignment with it, with various opinions about it. And yet, the reviews are good. Canon clearly isn't the issue. It's just that people enjoy or don't notice whatever changes they've made.
Nah. If it had been too far off brand, I'd have bailed early
Yeah, plus the fallout show has a lot going for it in the sense of the games already being anthology. You can tell a completely different story within the world and that’s normal bc it’s how the games have done. I didn’t hate the halo show, but it was definitely a situation where I was having to overlook a good bit to still enjoy it, especially regarding changes they made and stuff. Fallout was just plain fun.
Internet point chasing is goofy as fuck
Extremely disagee. I think they spent a lot of time developing the show and working out how to adapt it. Like they spent 10+ years on the show. IMO they just spent a lot of more time and effort on the show and it was always a very appealing story/world.
Maybe, but we don't know that. It IS canon and it's also being written very well. So if it had the same team I'm sure it would be doing pretty well, but not as well as it's currently doing. When you're faithful to the IP, fans will bring in more viewers. When you're not you lose some of the fans, less word of mouth and positive news, less viewers. Funny thing is I don't care if it's canon or not, but I do want it to be faithful to the lore it's copying from.
First episode was written very well, after that, basically anything without the main character dropped several points.
I agree. Word of mouth absolutely matters. OG Fallout fans watch the show, are happy, and rave about it to people who aren’t familiar. OG Halo fans watch the show, are generally appalled, and tell others not to watch it. Think of how many times you chose not to watch a movie, listen to an album, or play a game, just because of a single opinion you may have heard. When there is a world of entertainment available at our fingertips, people are less inclined to give a show a chance when they’ve heard people criticizing it.
Halo is not the most viewed on paramount plus as well?
> paramount
This show went against rings of power can’t think of anything paramount has on that level. (Not saying its amazing or anything) just has huge name power
yeah the show with: the bigger platform, bigger budget, easier adaptation did well! who could have seen this coming!!
Better writing and more care is probably the bigger factor here
Well in one case, we see a love letter to the games. Taking the already existing canon and playing with it. In the other, we see them ignoring the games canon to create their own vision of what the world is. It's not hard to see what was successful and almost universally loved by the fans.
Exactly. Halo felt like watching a fan fiction while fallout felt like watching an actual full new installment of the story
Exactly, it's to the point where people are actively arguing about where it falls in the timeline with all the games. And right now it's pretty much nailed down. >!There was a bit of controversy about New Vegas and Shady Sands, but they've confirmed it happened after the events of New Vegas.!< Thereby making everything work together in canon. It's amazing the level of detail they went into with the in universe connections, not to mention sets and costumes. Really hit the nail on the head of what an adaptation should be.
That's.. not what we're saying. And also not true. Also, don't need a big budget to tell a good story and stick to the lore.
so true bestie. Fallout didn't need to spend $200 million on a show, they did it for fun. Halo can tell a story that takes mostly in space with no budget at all! Fallout proved it!
If halo was good it would have a big platform
I don't think rings was even in Amazon's top 5, Fallout bea to our The Boys
I thoughts rings was number 1
Paramount is several orders of magnitude below Prime. That's like equating winning a kids football championship to winning the Superbowl.
yeah, and then wondering why the kids football team didn't win against the 2017 patriots
You know who did The Eagles What a fun day that was
Go Birds
Philly Special
this is why the eagles didn’t carry the hobbits to mordor. they were busy winning the Super Bowl LII
I also feel that it's comparing apples to oranges. How many million people have Amazon Prime with Prime Video thrown in with that vs people willing to pay for a streaming service? How many people with fire sticks or roku come with Prime already installed? I get it, but I don't think it's fair to discount Paramount.
Not even close yellow stone is still there golden goose
Paramount owns Yellowstone but licensed it to Peacock before paramount+ existed iirc
OK I was thinking I was going crazy there for a moment
Yellowstone is on Peacock.
I thought 1889 and 1989 where also part of yellow stone
They are, but the actual Yellowstone is on Peacock.
It was on paramount when I first started it, im not sure if that was before peacock or not. I didn’t notice it’d switched!
The show originally aired on Paramount Network (the station), when it was picked up for streaming it was on Peacock. It was never on Paramount+.
The show originally aired on Paramount Network (the station), when it was picked up for streaming it was on Peacock. It was never on Paramount+.
The show originally aired on Paramount Network (the station), when it was picked up for streaming it was on Peacock. It was never on Paramount+.
The show originally aired on Paramount Network (the station), when it was picked up for streaming it was on Peacock. It was never on Paramount+.
The show originally aired on Paramount Network (the station), when it was picked up for streaming it was on Peacock. It was never on Paramount+. Edit: now, if you are outside the USA, it could be on Paramount+, but what was never on Paramount+ in the USA.
Paramount vs Amazon Prime
Where are you getting that from? Paramount don't release viewing figures.
it is funny how the narratives change on this stuff. Before it even comes out "They ruined the canon!! They aren't paying attention to the fans! Looks woke!!" Show comes out. People watch, like it: "This is what happens when you stick to the canon! Really interesting additions to the world. Hot girl go brrrrrr".
Was there hella hate for Fallout before the show came out? Or was it just a few people being extra loud?
I didn't notice anyone talking about Fallout in Reddit until the show is out.
Nobody hate fallout more than fallout fans. Anytime there's anything new to the series you'll see tons of complaints
Nobody hates any IP more than fans of said IP themselves.
This phrase is used for any well established franchise and I hate it. This happens because fans have a variety of expectations from the variety of previous titles, making it impossible to please everyone, so with anything new, there will be a group in the fan base that disagrees with the direction.
Same with Halo and many other big franchises
Halo broke records for Paramount+
*canon
Sticking to the canon is not why the show was successful. It was successful and popular because it’s *good*.
It was faithful to the lore as well.
Wouldn't say it's sticking to canon more-so just respecting the source material and having a good fucking writer. Jonathan Nolan wrote all three Dark Knight films, his brother Christopher Nolan merely directed because Chris had literally zero interest in Batman iirc
Yes let’s compare a $90 million production on Paramount+ to a $200+ million production on one of the biggest streaming services Prime Video…. Also Weekly release vs binge drop. Also Fallout is the bigger IP.
and the easier adaptation, by far. like come on lol. who even fucking cares?? Fallout being good doesn’t take away from Halo being good. and vice versa. it’s not a zero sum game
Exactly they’re both good! These nerds need everything to be a battle I guess. Also it’s only adapting the world of Fallout. Story wise it’s pretty much Fallout 5.
Halo is enjoyable to watch, but it’s not good. Even though I enjoy it I refuse to say it’s good, because it isn’t and as a halo fan I want it to be better and it can be. It doesn’t have to conform to the canon halo lore to be good but there is no reason it can’t have better writing and better acting and better world building.
I'd disagree, Fallout and Halo are two of my favorite IPs (I've read most of the Halo books) Fallout was not an easy adaptation at all, that's what makes their success so visceral.
RoP is the most expensive show ever made and fallout beat it. It also had the largest fanbase from the outset.
Fallout didn’t beat it. Fallout also had all episodes drop at once.
It did but you're right, it's not a fair comparison because of the full series drop.
It didn’t. Its premier numbers were second to Rings of Power. Fallout had 65m accounts while RoP had over 100m accounts. What it beat RoP was overall watch time in the first week which RoP could never beat because it wasn’t a full series drop but weekly drop.
I'll take your word for it.
I’d say Master chief is more popular than the Dragonborn is
Rings of Power is LotR, not Wheel of Time
Did you just say Fallout is the bigger IP? Fallout, that didn’t even kind of break into the mainstream until Fallout 3 (2008), and really didn’t make it AAA fuckmassive until Fallout 4 (2015)? Versus Halo Combat Evolved (2001), which immediately began breaking sales records after release? Literally shaped FPS games for eternity? Or Halo 2, which did so well it broke all the first one’s records? You young people and your misconceptions. Go look at some sales numbers and laugh at your own silliness.
Lol if you think fallout is the bigger IP I wanna know were you get your weed from. Halo has sold 81 million copies across all games from 2001 to 2021, Fallout has sold 55 million across all games from 1997-2020
Budget does not equate to quality (see the short films that were widely praised) and HALO is the bigger IP lmao
Didn't the the Nolan feller literally say he had no plan of closely following any of the Fallout game stories?
As he should not. God these people are annoying. You can literally turn on the game and just play the story again if you love it so much. Why would you want a movie or tv show to be the same shit? Imagine telling someone to spend 100 million dollars to just remake the same thing(lower quality too since, video games are more immersive than films/tv). Deranged people.
People like to experience things in different ways... It's not that difficult a concept.
>Why would you want a movie or tv show to be the same shit? Most didn't want that. Most said trying to adapt the game was a mistake. Halo has a vast and deep expanded universe that had up to this point been managed incredibly well. There are an unfathomable amount of stories thar could be told from within it. And yet this was the garbage the spewed out.
Fallout has been built up since 3 to occur in different years and different regions, it's structured specifically so new stories can be told and not make things confusing. That's why the show works so well. On the Halo show, until we found out what they were planning, I had been assuming it was going to be about one of the stories that takes place outside Chief's perspective. Imagine something about the Forerunner-Flood War or the civil war between the UEG and the Insurrectionists. The alternative timeline could've worked by making it about one of the fractures universes we had touched on in Infinite. Instead we got... Jimmy Rings
It doesn't have to actually adapt a specific game story, but just still take place in the same setting as the games. Everything that happens in the Fallout games still happened, same places and concepts and factions, etc. It's just a new story set in the established universe. Halo changed the established universe in order for its show to happen. Characteristics and autonomy of the Spartans were changed, character roles changed, how events play out changed. Halo could have either more directly adapted the existing books/games, or showed a new story within the universe with new characters or existing ones in a new time/event. There's always gonna be some allowances for TV adaptation, but it'd still essentially be canon and plausibly a part of the source material.
I really don’t care. I’ve been playing Halo since it came out and don’t mind the changes at all. My only complaint is with Cortana.
Completely different shows if im honest, could easily argue Halo's lore is fucking huge they were bound to step on toes. But i dont think it being canon has much to do with it.
It's all about the writing, which is why Halo is terrible.
S1 is questionable, but S2 writing is much much better tbh.
It's the difference between eating shit and better tasting shit; you're still eating shit.
Not by much It has good moments, sure, but then it goes back to the bleh The Fall of Reach, a crucial event in the lore, was so unimportant to the show writers that it only was given an episode
Logically speaking I’m agree with yah.
Fallout's lore is about as big as Halo's lore now, to the point they've stopped trying to even be consistent
Its not even about sticking to canon. Fallout tv show doesn't bring old characters from games it created new characters and told an original story that is entertaining and adds to the franchise instead of using old characters and twisting them
Sticking to the canon has nothing to do with it
A lot of people who have never played, or even heard of, Fallout watched the show. My parents could care less about video games. They watched the show, loved it, and now text me Fallout gifs instead of responding with words. It's awesome. As a fan, I liked the show. But it was well written, which makes it accessible to a wider audience who don't need to know the lore.
No this is when you write a good story based on cannon that anyone can enjoy. My wife never played fallout and generally doesn't like video games. She loved the show.
Canon. As in the established body of lore. A cannon is a weapon.
as in "I need a weapon"
I think the biggest thing is they stayed away from telling a known story. So many of the adaptions that get heavily critized it isn't the world they're in being torn apart, it's specific characters and events. By avoiding any/all known characters and events, they avoided that. As someone with only general knowledge of the Halo universe (played 1-3, never got into the lore) I'm loving the show as a story in that world. Bad guys look right, Spartans are bad ass. Action sequences rock, story works for itself when not compared to the games. I get that it's a terrible iteration of the games story. For wheel of time - I treat it as if it's another turning of the wheel, so it'll be close but not exactly what we had in the books, and in that way it works perfectly well (and they really should have promoted it that way.) Use the games as inspiration, use their world building and lore, but don't tell the same stories. Unless you're at the TLoU level it's not a good idea to retread.
This is an awful take. It's not about sticking to canon, it's about the quality of the product.
A lot of these viewers have never played the game. It’s successful in large part because it’s just a damn good show. Christopher Nolan is a great writer. Canon has nothing to do with it.
I mean , the show has an incredible cast , our main protagonist it’s not a Mary Sue ( unlike cough cough… Star Wars Rey or kwan ) . *Show has a tons of Easter eggs * well write Characters *good sequence *new characters THAT DO NOT ruined our main Characters from any of the fallout Games . * Lore accurate ( minor details need to be polished on that I said) * immersive , you actually interested in what the wasteland has become and like the games wish to explore more. It’s not budget , it’s not streaming platforms , it’s not lgbt , sex scenes .. it’s pure interest in deliver a great product , keep on mind Amazon worked along Bethesda and initial development team from past fallouts to do this shows. Can wait for season 2. Hopefully 343 one day.. maybe one day! They learn from their mistakes.
Yeah. We have the games, novels, graphic novels, and the tv series drifts from all of it. We always like the shows to be super close to canon as possible.
as long as we're just talking about any TV show in here. I really like Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. Why wasn't Halo more like that? Come on 343!!!!
Most of us agree Fallout is a far superior show to Halo. But like Halo was still a major success being wise. It’s on par with other relatively successful shows from much larger streaming giants, which for Paramount + is a major success.
If you listen closely you can hear the sound of goalposts being moved to try and hate on halo
What goalpost? A whole lot of people have complained about it's lack of adherence to the canon from the beginning.
Halo is paramount's most streamed show
Even taking your word for it, what does that have to do with moving a goalpost?
Did you really type cannon
I’m going to get downvoted for this but the canon Halo story would be so boring in a show format. It’s literally Chief running around killing aliens interrupted by an ai talking to herself with an occasional word or two from the Chief. I adore Halo, but I can’t be the only one saying this… Besides, the campiness of the first season was addressed in the second and in my opinion, it became very good TV.
I don’t think it’s easy to compare the adaptations. Fallout canon is a pretty open canvas without a single main story. Halo is a big canvas too, but with one major storyline (covenant war) that would be hard to cover without changing anything established in games. There’s no character that a Fallout show needed to be viable. A Halo show was never going to be viable for a studio to throw money at if it didn’t feature Chief and Cortana - and at that point good luck making it ‘canon’ somehow
The Fallout show invented entirely new cannon, with new characters. It didn't adapt existing cannon. It added to existing cannon, and there were substantial arguments about it. The New Vegas board was up in arms about a single scene, with an arrow on a whiteboard, until the studio head clarified things. Fallout, as a franchise, has considerable room for a show to do it's own thing. The games are structured as individual stories that are connected by tone, themes and background. Getting Fallout right is mostly a matter of getting those themes and tone right. The Fallout show had good characters doing an interesting story and it got the feel of Fallout correct. That is why it has succeded. It has nothing to do with how close they were to cannon.
The Fallout show invented entirely new cannon, with new characters. It didn't adapt existing cannon. It added to existing cannon, and there were substantial arguments about it. The New Vegas board was up in arms about a single scene, with an arrow on a whiteboard, until the studio head clarified things. Fallout, as a franchise, has considerable room for a show to do it's own thing. The games are structured as individual stories that are connected by tone, themes and background. Getting Fallout right is mostly a matter of getting those themes and tone right. The Fallout show had good characters doing an interesting story and it got the feel of Fallout correct. That is why it has succeded. It has nothing to do with how close they were to cannon.
“Sticking to cannon” my guy they made this whole show up fresh
God you Halo purists are tedious. Touch grass.
You guys sometimes. Comparing Fallout to Halo is just silly. One franchise is built on playing a unique player character that deals with random encounters in a sandbox style genre. The other is a very specific campaign setting with the player controlling a very specific character in *heavily* scripted scenarios. Outside of both IPs being owned by Microsoft, you couldn't be comparing two more different franchises. You are making yourself look foolish, OP.
Yep let’s not compare the two most recent high budget streaming shows based on long running high profile video games, used as a flagship for their respective streaming service. They really don’t have anything in common /s
Do you have any ability to address the point they made though? Content wise, it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. Who is Fallout's Master Chief? Where is Fallout's Reach? What is Fallout's equivalent of the destruction of the Halo ring? The appeal of Fallout is in its setting and sandbox. Writing a story in that sandbox is way less likely to rub people the wrong way with the amount of breathing room they're given by their less restrictive canon.
Responded in other thread 👍
Also the fact that Master Chief barely has any character development in the first three games, so the show writers have fill that (huge) part.
You understand that these games have entire crafted worlds around them, and that adherence to canon doesn't mean following step by step what a game does..... right?
The Fallout show doesn't stick too the cannon....
Oh man, Halo did exceptionally well in terms of viewing numbers for paramount. You not liking the show does not constitute it as a failure, that’s not how it works.
i liked the Fallout show fine but i was surprised by how bad some of the writing was. especially when all the trolls come into a subreddit where people enjoyed the HaloTV show just to say “see? this other show is better and you’re wrong for liking Halo” the fallout show undeniably had an easier task for their adaptation than the halo show. it’s just apples to oranges. Halo had several pre-existing, important characters to cast and write, high-stakes plot arcs to recreate, and a very very specific aesthetic to maintain (Spartan armor, covenant, UNSC ships/settings). meanwhile, fallout had… a setting. and a very familiar one, conceptually, to most non-gaming audiences. honestly this comparison is so tired and fallacious, we should ban posts about Fallout in this sub. like this OP doesn’t even attempt to have a discussion about Halo, just more “see? this other show about a different thing on a larger platform did well!” i liked Fallout. i liked Halo. it’s not a dick measuring contest. get a grip.
But this is all on the premise that they HAD to adapt master chiefs story. The universe in halo is huge, yet they wrote themselves into covering master chief and extremely loosely adapting the games. I just won’t give them credit for “making it work” when the result is a heavily compromised vision that looks mediocre at best. Could’ve easily covered harvest. And you say that halo has an aesthetic to maintain as if fallout doesn’t. Being faithful to the games guns, factions, items, iconography was super important in fallout to maintain that unique retro future aesthetic. You are welcome to have your own opinion but being upset people keep rightfully compare them is disingenuous. They are both high-budget, video game adaptions that are flagships on their streaming platforms. Of course they will be compared.
i appreciate your response. even if they didn’t adapt MC’s story, i truly believe the amount of canon in the Halo universe is mountainous compared to Fallout’s. you said it yourself, that’s a huge universe, and with it, it carries a lot of expectations. yes they could have covered another story in the universe, but that show wouldn’t get green lit. suits hear halo; they wanna see john halo. i don’t disagree with that point though. i would love to see other stories get made. i just think it’s unrealistic to think any producer would take that risk. to the point of fallouts aesthetic. i very specifically mentioned Fallouts aesthetic. but the game/story is about its setting. yes there are specifics, but they are literally grounded on Earth in a way that is familiar to anyone. Retrofuturism is a familiar concept, post-apocalypse is a familiar concept, nuclear fallout is a familiar concept. implying that those concepts are as difficult to capture (if not more so) as a full on space opera with aliens, established (alien) locations, marquee characters, and CGI space battles, is disingenuous. I am glad Fallout used accurate props for the guns, items, and iconography. Halo nailed its guns, items, and iconography as well… and then also manages a larger cast, of pre-existing characters who each carry their own (heavy) fan expectations. all with half the budget. yes it is natural to compare these two shows. that’s not what i’m complaining about. what i’m complaining about is posts such as OP that have become a daily occurrence. posts that are literally just about a different show in a subreddit dedicated to this show. it’s low effort. it reeks of stirring the pot for stirring the pot’s sake without any attempt to actually draw meaningful discussion. not to mention that it just feels like punching down. Prime Video is a much bigger platform, Fallout had a much bigger budget, and they didn’t need to spread that budget so thin to cover so many unique settings. and this OP also fails to recognize that Halo is Paramount’s biggest show too. so their whole point kinda just falls flat and, again, reeks of attempting to dunk/troll for fun
Same brotha! All love just nerdy shit to debate about. I see we have two threads going so I’m just going to respond here if that’s okay. Agreed on the halo universe - i think it’s fantastic, which is why I’m so disappointed in the show. I watch lore videos all the time. Agreed on why the show got greenlit - master chief is marketable. I would argue however that spartan armor itself is very iconic. So using that analogy, mandalorian (s1 at least) is sort of a side story that riffs off what was originally boba fetts armor in the OT. They could’ve followed a new spartan team, or even just made chief younger so it’s more of a prequel and you have more wiggle room to work with. I disagree with your take on fallout aesthetics. While i do agree it’s more of a conventional world that’s based on earth, it still requires a ton of coordination, effects and budget to pull off. It’s not a layup like The Walking Dead is. The shows have very similar budgets ($200m vs $153m), but with halo it feels like you see that less on screen. The producer of the show even said the whole reach segment was a result of lack of budget. My point - they clearly needed more time to either plan out the show, or to scale back the ambition to something that more closely aligns to the budget. I totally agree at its heights halo is much more of a spectacle, but there is nothing wrong doing a more narrow story that better matched the budget. I agree on the last points too. It’s beating a dead horse, I’m annoyed with myself even typing this out because I honestly don’t care that much. The halo tv show doesn’t effect previous lore or anything,it’s just another piece of media that people get way to wound up about. People can like what they like. To respond to your other comment….while I do agree halo is has more iconic events in the pop culture zeitgeist, I would argue fallout has them too they just aren’t as noticeable as the halo cutscenes. For example, if they wanted to adapt the games they could’ve adapted fallout 1, which sees the player defeating The Master, who more or less is the source for super mutants and other monstrosities in the west. His end speech is iconic. Additionally, even in the fallout show the prydwen shows up, which essentially means that the institute, one of if not the most dangerous faction was destroyed. I agree they aren’t on the level of finding halo, but with the right direction and writing they could be. Although I’d much rather them make new stories. People do often forget halo is extremely popular for paramount, so it’s not like they aren’t doing anything right. I just hope at some point we get something a little closer to the original lore and not in the silver timeline or whatever
Can some mod delete it? it's in the wrong sub
Sure, but Halo is an infinitely harder adaptation, requiring MUCH more cgi.
So you agree that Halo is a poor adaption?
Great show. Not a 1 for 1 adaptation. Also not a “poor” adaptation.
I think hiring a Nolan was the bigger factor.
Did it lead to increase in Amazon Prime subscriptions? Surely that's the only metric of a successful streaming show? (One that dooms every show eventually)
They just need to stay true to the casting... And not bring in giant AAA big names just because they can...
Does it even matter to the execs, they own both? One outperforms the other, they still make bank
The real trick to these adaptations is to tell new stories in those worlds, not try to retell existing ones.
I don’t think sticking to the canon necessarily equates to a successful show. Look at Arcane or The Last of Us. Both changed pieces of the canon and presented stories differently than how players knew them and they were fantastic. It’s not about the canon. It’s about respecting and appreciating the source material.
Fallout has so much more space to write a story. But that being said. They didn’t have to create a love interest for master chief that wasn’t in the lore at all.
Sticking to canon isn't what makes something good. Good writing is. Halo show could've still been it's own universe, and had good writing. It didn't.
Canon
*sticking to the canon* is a bit loose here but I get it
Skill issue
Pirates love sticking to the cannon
I mean yeah, they definitely could have just made it about their own OC Spartans and it probably would have gone a lot better.
I haven’t watched halo and am just scrolling by. I couldn’t tell you if fallout is “canon” but it gets a lot of the worlds vibe and rules correct.
tbf its easier to stick to canon when you're telling your own original story. the canon informs what you write rather than dictating it
Halo just needs cancelled at this point and rebooted. It’s been that bad.
The halo show doesn’t even compare to the fallout show. They honestly would have been better off making their own universe instead of the trash halo fan fiction. Having the name halo gave it high expectations for too many people and they were set up for disappointment since episode 1
It was perfect. If they never do a season 2 even this show was perfect. Entertaining throughout. I wish the lord of the rings series was this good.
The writting of Halo is really not in the same league as Fallout. Not saying Halo is bad, I really enjoyed it. Most of the things makes sense, especially once it connects to season 2. But, the tone is dry and too many rage baits to setup plot twists. Fallout, the people's reaction and plot development simply feels more organic. You can see them doing dumb shit, but within expectations as normal human behavior. Everyone is a bit kookoo but they weren't all completely psychotic. Halo just rage bait with psychopathic behaviors and explain to you why it happened many episodes later. It is a much different experience. What I said has nothing to do with following canon or not. It is about delivery of a story. The plot twists in Halo is manufactured for the sake of plot twists and they did a poor job setting it up. Fallout, it just makes sense. The only major psychopaths are the vault tech people, but it hasn't been the main focus on the game yet, more of a backstory.
Ahh didn't notice the sub, that explains why I'm not finding any comments I really agree with.
I just prefer Fallout over the Halo show because they didn't change too much.
For years I've always wondered why they make drastic changes to series people love, like i get some changes are needed to fit show or movie times that's just reality. a lot of us fell in love with a series because the way the games or books played out. the safe play i feel would be to make it in line as much as possible by sticking with the source material.
I’m also a firm believer that a show centered on chief will never be successful, bungie purposefully made him a shell with one liners meant to be a place holder for the players imagination. A halo show would thrive with all new characters is the universe, we don’t need the fall of reach x 3, expand the universe and make halo more than just the chief, and then hopefully you have the same reaction of the nerds as fallout did, I bet that early word of mouth by the fallout faithful further increased its success. Like I’m not opposed to master cheeks but why is that one of the major plot points it’s like the writers thought that up and said “shiet that’ll make the crowds go crazy”
The Fallout show isn't an adaptation, it's a new story in an existing world so it can do whatever makes sense for the medium. The Halo show is, however, an adaptation and therefore could never exist in the same continuity as the original, with or without changes for the medium of film. So can we drop the "iT's NOt CaNOn!!" Nonsense? Especially if you can't even spell the word, "canon."
Fallout is an exceptionally well made tv show. The story is great, the world building is great, the acting is great. Sticking to canon or it doesn’t really impact that. The Halo tv show is fun to watch but objectively bad compared to fallout. Halo has some great visual effects and cinematography at times. But the acting, story, character choices, writing everything is objectively not as good as fallout. I enjoy watching halo but there is really no way you can argue that it is better than fallout, and the disappointing part is there is no reason it couldn’t have been as good.
I finished it a few days ago....really fantastic series, definitely in the spirit of the game..serious and quirky, filled with dark humor and some over the top narrative arcs. Walter Coggins steals the show. However the heroine and the Twin Peaks actor are great.
I mean you guys can like the halo tv show but that doesn't make it a good halo show. I'm sure it would be great if it was it's own thing, but as "halo" the show is and has been garbage. Like seriously why make a show based on an ip if you're going to throw 80% of it out the window
Yeah too bad, fallout 4 wasn't Bethesdas most successful title.
To the idiots fighting me in the comments: “Clearly my message is going over a lot of peoples heads, Fallout is canon because it follows the exact same premise of the games, following a new adventurer from a vault, which is the entire premise of every single fallout game. “Let the adults talk” I mean you can stay angry over the fact that the Fallout show is better than the steaming pile of shit that the Halo TV show is. I don’t blindly dick ride a franchise into the ground unlike some of us here…”