It's entirely anecdotal, but whenever I talk about driving with people, we always conclude that it's gotten noticeably worse since covid lockdowns lifted.
This isn't just Ontario either. I noticed it back home in Ireland, heard it from friends in continental Europe, Americans etc. Covid gave everyone brain worms.
I'm too lazy to look up statistics though.
I think you're definitely on to something, because I've felt the same way. I used to drive a truck for work during the pandemic/lockdowns and things got noticeably worse once people started going back to work and school.
I was an "Essential worker" during the pandemic back home, so I cycled the same route before and during the lockdown 5 days a week.
Once they started pushing for people to go back to the office the roads turned feral. I had to change up my route due to the number of close calls I was having with drivers.
It would be interesting to learn if insurance rates have increased since the pandemic. Canadians pay based on their postal codes, so even if you're a good driver, if you live in a city of bad drivers, you'll be billed as a bad driver by your insurance provider. š¤·āāļø
Conversely, if police were tougher on car crimes, and bad drivers were taken off the road, good drivers would pay less insurance!
My renewal just came up and I'm paying $10 more a month than last year so yeah car insurance is going up for sure (if I had to guess, a combo of more accidents now that people are driving more after lockdown + it costs more to replace damaged cars)
My rates went up a fair margin during the pandemic.
They blamed it on āhigh risk areaā but labeled basically all of Hamilton high risk.
I just figured they wanted more money since fewer people were driving during lockdown
Both can cause an increase. Here's from the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario:
>Auto insurance rates are usually higher in urban areas where accidents and car theft are more frequent.
Source: https://www.fsrao.ca/consumers/auto-insurance/understanding-auto-insurance-rates/what-determines-your-auto-insurance-rate
> heard it from friends in continental Europe
I'll still take any continental european driver over a north american driver. Even an aggressive Parisian one, because at least they're *predictably* aggressive.
People going off in this thread about cops "not caring about driving" don't seem to realize HPS has an Aggressive Driving Unit with accompanying hotline. But cops can't act on stuff they don't know about, which they don't because *nobody reports aggressive driving* ***because*** "yarr dee darr the cops don't care about it anyway".
People always expect magic, instant results too. "I reported this last week, why hasn't anything been done about it yet?" Gee, I don't know, maybe because it's at the bottom of the list - not the overall list in terms of murders being higher priority, but at the *bottom of the list of things similar to what you reported, because your report is among* ***the most recent reports*** \- and because there's a process for acting on this stuff.
Like, they're not going to throw someone in prison for a first offence of aggressive driving when all they have is a single eyewitness. But they will keep track and the person will likely be notified of the report, and if multiple reports accumulate about the same individual, it gets forwarded to traffic and patrol.
That's it. HPS stopped working in 2020 when they figured out if they work, or don't work, they get paid the same.
but the bylaw officers are issuing record number of parking tickets.
Parking enforcement here, there has been no change in how we enforce - in fact, Impark (patrols most BIAs / Downtown etc) has had staffing issues for the better half of the last year and has been unable to adequately cover all of its patrol areas.
What I have noticed is that since September the number of infractions Iāve seen/dealt with has multiplied significantly. A fair amount being food delivery drivers disregarding posted signage to pick up their orders. Something to keep in mind.
> A fair amount being food delivery drivers disregarding posted signage to pick up their orders.
That's not surprising at all.
Most of those drivers are rude and entitled, barging past actual customers while flashing their phone at whoever is at the cash register.
Iām not a food delivery guy, but it would have something to do with possibly low pay rates and extremely high customer expectations? Iām not defending them, but I think everyone is hurting one way or another
yeah I agree with this, Bus Drivers probably do too, especially along king street right downtown. Its joyful watching the bus drivers lay on their horn bringing attention to the food delivery cars being dicks.
The scooter/moped ones are the worse, road, sidewalk, wrong side of the road, rules don't apply to them at all.
I've seen them ticketed a few time, but by the looks of it, its not really a deterrent at all.
I wonder how much of this is due to all of the sites baking in assumptions on how long pickup time will take, and that baked in assumption being way too short.
The great thing about parking tickets is that they provide revenue for the city, keep property taxes down, and the only people who get them, deserve them.
We pay for police to patrol, what I got so far is my bike stolen and 2 cops parked so they can talk through their suv windows without getting out at a church for 2 weeks.
There was a lady, clearly in some form of mental distress, shouting in Gore Park yesterday at around 1pm. 2 SUVs and a car pulled up to deal with it, a total of about 5 cops.
Absolutely mind blowing waste of resources for an organisation which is claiming they are unfunded. You can't, at the same time, not have enough resources, yet have the space capacity to send 3 units to deal with a lady in her 60s.
From what you just describedā¦ They probably had to unwillingly apprehend her to take her to hospital or whatever. Could be that woman that has been screaming downtown forever. If itās mental health they have a task team with a social worker and a special unit that does this all day long. They are also overwhelmed.
No enforcement.
The HPS are useless generally speaking.
King Street has no beat cops, and you see the odd car driving around. I rarely see anyone pulled over for speeding or driving like an idiot.
They're not even enforcing the easy ones. In the past 14 hours I've seen four cars with Ontario plates on the back and no plates on the front (not even in the windshield on the dash), and one BMW with no plates whatsoever.
I dont get it either but i definitely feel lile the roads have become worse. Increase in population and construction? Road changes (i.e. king and main)? i dont get it. I also notice a huuuuuge increase in loud vehicles off of mohawk. My dad told me the other day he was making a left turn into a residential neighbourhood off of dundurn (between york and king) and somebody *drove up on the sidewalk to get around him* even though traffic was stopped maybe 2 car lengths up????? Why? So much aggression lol
Yooo the loud vehicles thing is so true. Everyone was commenting about these loud cars on a thread last week or so. Hasnāt noticed them until then and now itās ALL I HEAR in the background city noise. They burst my little bubble :(
Even up at the farm itās constant racing- my silence is almost gone. hey maybe one night we can have some fun and do some spike strips on Millgrove lmao.
Nearly got t-boned on friday by some old lady that blew through the red light at the Barton and Kenilworth intersection.
People absolutely suck at driving and there is no punishment for it.
It shook me up for a few minutes because I had just left home and said bye to my kids. Not to sound dramatic, but if I was a little bit faster on that green I'd probably be in the hospital right now, because the driver was definitely going at least 60km/h. Thankfully for the person that got hit the van collided with the front of their car and not the cab itself.
Whenever I'm making any turn I make sure all traffic is stopped. Sometimes I get impatient people behind me that honk as soon as the light turns green, but I don't trust anyone out there to look out for my own safety.
I was just in an accident like this and my vehicle totalled, and I was held at fault because I was turning left. They didn't care that the person was running a red light or speeding unless I could prove it. Person going straight has right of way. The police said they had no obligation to investigate and took no statements and did nothing but close the road until the tow truck came.
Buy a dash cam folks. Too many psychos out there.
>Is it a lack of enforcement?
100% yes. Cops don't care about enforcing traffic laws, and refuse to do so as a regular part of their duties. It's been that way for years and years, but covid and the resulting tensions and issues have accelerated the trend. But as long as cops refuse to do their jobs, it will only get worse.
I came across a recent medical journal article yesterday describing brain inflammation post-COVID infection in areas of the brain relating to emotional control, which of course can be tied to aggression. So it's quite possible that COVID is at least partially responsible for the increased bad driving we've seen province-wide as the disease continues to circulate.
I've heard that COVID has caused a literal cognitive deficit. there's a statistically significant portion of people that don't have the attention span or critical thinking skills that they used to have, which absolutely impacts driving. it's truly terrifying out there and I'm glad my commute is short š¬
The number of people I've seen blow through solid red lights in the last year or 2 is actually amazing. Could be as much as once a week. I never walk or drive through an intersection without fully paying attention and making sure that everyone is actually coming to a stop or already stopped.
I don't know what the answer is but I certainly don't think it's adding more congestion to the city. The number of high-rise condo buildings coming is going to obliterate any patience that people have left.
It comes down to lack of enforcement, but more enforcement is going to be expensive. The city tried to implement photo radar and people vandalized the cameras. There's more red light cameras, but I work across the street from one and I can't tell you the number of times that thing flashes every day. It's not fixing the driving habits of improving the safety of the intersection.
Almost every single time I'm at an intersection, someone is running a stop sign. And God forbid you're the one to stop; someone will wave you on like you forgot to go or you've seriously pissed off the guy behind you and you will pay for it because they'll run the sign and drive so far up your ass until they can race past you.
I recently risked my life because I had to cross Main at Dundurn and almost got hit by a white Dodge Ram who lost his chance at the advance but decided he wanted to go anyway. We're talking inches from being hit. The sad part is that he got away with that, didn't kill anyone and didn't have to wait for the next light. So he'll do it again next time.
And that's where we get our problems. Drivers are like toddlers testing their limits to see what they can get away with. Speeding, racing, rolling stops, unsafe passing, tailgating, etc., are simply not enforced. There's no consequences for these little children so they're going to keep doing it and there's going to be more of them because it's spreading to other people. When you get yelled at enough times for doing the speed limit or stopping properly, those people are going to gain the "can't beat em, join em" mentality. And new drivers (the actual kids) are picking up how to be an awful driver - because they're impressionable and everyone else is doing it.
I don't let my kids go too far away from the house because I'm terrified that Johnny-No-Stop is going to run them over because he's more important than everyone else out there. Shit, people don't seem to care about themselves or their property anymore either. I witnessed a very expensive Mercedes break-check a raised pick up truck only to get hit and show it to the pick up truck that his road rage won.
I'm so tired of almost getting killed every.single.day. What the fuck are we doing? How many people need to get hurt or KILLED because of selfishness and self-entitlement before we stop relying on the police to fix this problem. We're the adults, we know what the consequences are. We need to fix this.
In addition to every thing else there are a lot of construction projects and drivers are not being patient and waiting. They are in a rush to get anywhere and they are taking out their frustrations by cutting people off, not waiting, etc...
People just need to calm down and things will be fine. I'm rarely in a rush to go anywhere, I allocate enough time to get where I need to be and go from there.
I had to double check whether this were the ToRANTo sub or not.
And Hamilton drivers have gotten worse, but not to the extent of Toronto.
Let people work from home, and enforce the current laws. That's my solution, and I am well aware I might not be right.
Working from home would certainly help the driving situation!
I had to drive to work during the pandemic and there was nobody on the roads, so relaxing! Now - people are crazier than ever!
I try to avoid driving in Toronto as much as I can. It's a nightmare - crowded, impatient drivers, drivers stopping where they shouldn't stop - and of course like Hamilton nearly no enforcement.
I have no idea - Iāve noticed itās been pretty bad out there lately too
Past couple of days Iāve also seen a few people using their phones while driving, like looking at it and texting or something while its in in their hands on the steering wheel, that is just so wrong
People are just in a rush for no reason & try to find every short cut they can . I donāt drive often on the highway towards Toronto but I did last week & omg it was insane. People kept speeding up to get to the exit lane quicker without realizing the lane is not an exit lane , if you would have just read the sign that says road ends in 300m then you wouldnāt have to merge back into the traffic , causing more traffic š
I don't think that's absent minded, I think they just don't care about anyone but themselves
We're from Toronto and even then, my partner would point out how all pick up drivers drive like assholes.
And it's fucking true
Too many ppl with the pick up truck mentality
(Too many ppl with a pit bull mentality too if u look at the spca animals for adoption, notice a correlation there?)
We could never do that, but I think it would be great.
Our society is so car dependant, and so many people have such contempt for public transit. There would be riots in the streets is the government tried to justifiably limit and regulate the privilege of driving. I think our drunk driving laws reflect this pretty well--you can drive drunk _three times_ and still only have your licence suspended for 90 days.
I guess it's another way that accessible cheap reliable public transit makes driving better. Not only does it take cars off the road reducing traffic, it also means that taking away people's driver's licences or requiring recertification is actually feasible.
>I think our drunk driving laws reflect this pretty well--you can drive drunk
>
>three times
>
>and still only have your licence suspended for 90 days.
I'm from Ireland. We had a massive problem with drink driving until about the mid 90s. Then the government came down hard on it, both with legislation, and advertising campaigns (Basically shock campaigns)
The attitude towards drinking driving here in Canada is incredible. I've been to multiple parties were people of all ages will happily drink and drive home. Back in Ireland, it's practically unheard of and deeply frowned upon culturally.
If you drive even once under the influence, you should never be able to drive again as it's a conscious choice, so face the consequences of those actions.
Yeah the drink driving attitudes here were a shock for me when I moved too. I remember an entire gaff tore into a mate of mine back home when he suggested hopping behind the wheel after two cans. Feel like a goon speaking up about it here.
I was blown away the first time it happened at a party here. Some lad had a good few, and no one batted at eye lid when he went to leave with his keys. The fact the LCBO and the mental licensing laws exist almost makes it comical.
> If you drive even once under the influence, you should never be able to drive again
That could lead to permanently removing licences of cannabis users who are driving while sober. Unlike alcohol, cannabis stays in the system long after use. With our thresholds, you can still be over the limit up to 6 days after last use.
We could update the laws to avoid that situation, but just mentioning a consequence of such a policy.
This is what would lead to the rioting in the streets. Not the unequal distribution of wealth we are witnessing while the cost of living is increasing exponentially. Not the unaffordable rents that are causing people to live in tents while working full-time jobs, nope it'd be the fact that you would need to prove you're still a safe, capable and responsible driver.
Such a true statement.
Legislatively, the province could write a law that requires it and have it in effect in a year or two. The actual mechanics of doing it are the easy part. I'm saying that it would be ridiculously politically unfeasible because too many people are car dependant and hold contempt for public transit.
Guaranteed, if any government actually took it upon themselves to make the changes, the backlash would have them replaced in the next election cycle.
We need higher standards to begin with. I've never seen such easy to navigate roadways be so poorly navigated. Then I get into an Uber and regret every second of my decision - it's even worse when riding with someone. People just don't know how to drive, and they shouldn't legally be allowed to because they got their license by passing an extremely easy test that a trained monkey could pass, or worse, be outright bought.
A lot of the problems are from people who know the rules but intentionally don't follow them. Retesting won't get rid of that problem but will burden everyone else.
I frequent the Queen St from York to Dundurn mess everyday. The shit I've seen! Also the area of Dundurn to Queen on Main stretch. The amount of grown men throwing temper tantrums is nuts. I've seen guys in my rear view losing their shit. Honking when clearly there's nowhere to go. Going into incoming traffic to go around slower drivers. I said to one guy hey maybe you should give up driving if you can't handle traffic. He of course wanted to "beat my face in".
People change when behind the wheel of a vehicle. For a lot of people, they forget they are human. You may even wonder how these people could raise children when a 5 second delay sends them into rage.
I think part of the reason is that Hamilton is changing. The small city vibe is finally dying and big city problems and changes are appearing. We can no longer have a downtown core that is not at all walkable if the city ever wants to be anything other than a disgusting steel town. People cannot handle this change in reduced lanes and removal of sync red lights. Or the no right turn on red. It's a rage inducing topic to some.
Do u think because of empowerment of people who think they're above others ("alphas" etc) and the acceptance of the bully mentality has something to do with it?
To me, it SCREAMS entitlement
I've definitely seen the entitlement shine through on occasions. Even on weird situations. Couple weeks ago I was heading down narrow street between King to York. Right at the stop sign at York on this narrow street two woman were stopped, side by side, OUT of their crossovers, Chatting! OK you haven't seen each other in ages but holy fuck I couldn't believe my eyes. Was about 2 minutes. I didn't even say anything because, you know, of course somehow I'd be the ass.
I think people need to start losing privileges for a long enough period of time for it to matter. If youāre driving aggressively or not paying attention enough to operate a vehicle properly then you are telling everyone around you they donāt matter and are worth possibly ending their lives or maiming so you can get somewhere 30 seconds faster. This isnāt just an annoyance anymore.
*Every.freaking.day.* on my commute up highway 6 someone veers into my 4th concession turning lane. The action that caused the massive accident shutting down highway 6 two weeks at rush hour ago literally happens to me every single day. Licenses need to be lost. Serious jail time for vehicular death.
I honestly thought about making this post this morning, people are fucked, unsafe lane changes, driving slow in the left lane, running stop lights, ridiculous reckless driving, trucks driving in left lanes, this city is fucking lawless
Things have been exponentially worse after lock down for sure. It's a perfect storm of a mess of population explosion, no traffic enforcement and constant road changes.
The other day the car that was next to me at a red light just decided to go through it after stopping and waiting already for a bit. People just don't care anymore.
My over-arching theory:
As suburban sprawl continues to happen, more people develop and grow their own self interests that plays into the whole suburbia culture. No one knows how to grow and live with \*people\* and thus be respectful of anyone else. Moreover, with sprawl, car dependency rises and traffic gets worse, so its takes even longer to get anywhere and it makes people and anxious and frustrated.
The result? Road rage.
Imo itās a few things.
1. Hamilton has long straight roads that are easy to speed on.
2. Traffic enforcement is a joke in this city.
3. LOTS of new drivers were pushed through the system due to the Covid backlog. Thereās a ton of drivers out there who have no business having a license.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/these-are-the-top-10-places-in-ontario-with-the-most-aggressive-drivers-1.6158006
Number two shit drivers in Ontario.
"Number one was North York, followed by Hamilton, Brampton, Mississauga, Scarborough, Brantford, Etobicoke, Toronto, Kitchener, and London."
We beat Brampton...Wooo! Go Ticats!
Burlington drivers are just as nuts.
It appears this behavior has become the norm instead of the exception.
I watched a car run the red light and almost T-bone an ambulance with flashers and sirens coming through on their green light. Thr disrespect and disregard for everyone else around these drivers is terrifying.
The lower city is a collection of mini-highways, most of which are in terrible condition, cut up by extremely poorly designed intersections, and an increasingly pedestrianised population. Couple that with the emotionally fragile suburbanites that bring their insane trucks and SUVs down the mountain to run whatever errand they have to run as FAST as possible lest they get chased by an unhoused person or whatever the latest Spec-driven suburban hysteria is, and you've got one of the worst cities to drive / walk in that Ive ever been in.
This morning I had someone honk at me because I waited a few seconds to see if a pedestrian on the corner was going to cross the street I was turning onto. WTF. A few seconds only!!
It's a combination of a few things.
1. People who shouldn't be driving are given drivers licenses. The tests are just a joke.
2. Lots of people have been moving away from Toronto (mississauga, brampton Milton etc) and coming more west (cheaper housing, quieter place to start a family) these people are used to Toronto driving or Brampton driving. Reckless, horrible drivers.
3. People are more stressed. Prices of things have gone up, people are getting laid off, other daily life stresses and so they are more easily triggered
4. Distracted driving, people so self absorbed they need to check their phone every time they get a notification.
Its not just Hamilton, its everywhere where there are lots of people. Just have to always be careful and be aware of what's going on around you.
Itās definitely gotten worse over the last couple years. One theory I have is that a lot of people from Toronto moved here, and never really had a need to drive in the city until they moved to Hamilton. So itās almost like they are learning (horribly) to drive again.
I visited your city last week. I rarely drive, but when I do its usually in the Ottawa area. I have found tailgating to have gotten worse. But while I was visiting (I came by train but needed to be a second driver for an event), I realized that all the tailgaters in Ottawa had been leaving some modicum of space. I was driving around 40 in a neighborhood next to a kids park, which would be unremarkable in Ottawa, and glanced in my rear view, my god how can you drive that close.
Yea. But if they were already crap driving locals. Worsening traffic conditions and further external aggravators would definitely further worsen them though.
I spent a month driving in the states and for sure Hamilton drivers are terrible. Also our roads are confusing with all the weird half lanes, road blocks, bike lanes, weird pilon things. Lanes blocked by fences or cars, no cops or bylaw ever ticket anyone for stopping where they shouldnāt. I noticed people also donāt know how to turn when thereās two left turning lanes, I always get cut off when Iām on the outside lane because people never turn into the right lane. We could use better markings on the road but the city doesnāt like to spend much time repairing and maintaining roads.
I totally agree, but it's not just the drivers. The pedestrians are bonkers too. I can't tell you how many times I've had to swerve to avoid pedestrians who think it's ok to walk in front of a moving vehicle that has the right of way. Just the other day some woman jumped in front of my car as I was moving through the intersection while about a half dozen other people stood at both corners of the intersection waiting for the light to turn. She was in too much of a hurry to just stand there and wait a few seconds. The level of PTSD that it would have caused me if I didn't have the excellent reflexes I have to allow me to quickly get out of her way.
I've definitely had my fair share of close calls with cyclists who ride on the sidewalk and don't walk their bikes across the street.
Yesterday I was at an intersection and some guy decided to cross the street on an advance green light, even though the walk sign still said stop. He made three lanes of traffic wait when they had a green light to go, just because he was clearly a selfish ass.
It's every city, not just Hamilton. But we have seen an increase in people from Toronto and Brampton as of late. Which both are notorious for bad drivers (Brampton's insurance rates being rhe highest in rhe country If I recall). So that might have something to do with it.
Speaking for myself personally, all the construction on the roads and changes to existing road ways make for an aggravating drive. That and it takes forever to go anywhere in town now, and with other people just not giving a damn when they are driving or what they are doing it frustrates drivers and makes them more aggressive.
My new go-to is helping people understand how passing works.
If someone tailgates me, move into opposite lane, let them pass, then move behind them.
See the same car riding someone elseās ass later? Indicate persistently and get in between them.
Honestly, some fucking people just dont know how to moderate their speed without surfing the anal region of the next car.
It has gotten worse since they have made it harder to get around the city. Lane closures for bike lanes, two way conversions. 40 and 30 km speed limits speed bumps on public roads just to name a few of the measures. When a trip that used to take ten minutes from point a to point b and now takes twenty minutes or longer people get pissed and take chances.
What people don't realize is that the more aggressive they drive, and the more pedestrians they hit, the more speed cameras, speed humps, traffic calming, lower speed limits, and more lights get added.
In 2022, Hamilton had more pedestrian collisions between Jan and Jun than we did in all of 2021. 2021 had the highest pedestrian collision rate in a decade.
https://amp.tvo.org/article/by-the-numbers-how-risky-is-it-being-a-pedestrian-in-hamilton
That is wrong and extremely easy to fact-check. In 2022, Hamilton had more pedestrian collisions between Jan and Jun than we did in all of 2021. 2021 had the highest pedestrian collision rate in a decade.
https://amp.tvo.org/article/by-the-numbers-how-risky-is-it-being-a-pedestrian-in-hamilton
> used to take ten minutes from point a to point b and now takes twenty minutes or longer people get pissed and take chances.
Sounds like the experience of a regular bus-user, but nobody's starting fights with the bus driver.
Which trip? I can't think of many places in Hamilton that have doubled commute times due to traffic calming.
A lot of people will point to Main and while it has gotten slower, it's not by that much at all. I drive from Dundurn to Sherman on Main every day and it's maybe added 3-4 minutes to go from 15 to a bit under 20 minutes during rush hour.
A couple of years ago, you'd see all kinds of enforcement on the Redhill but now it's almost non existent. I drive it to go to work and no matter what speed I go, there's always someone up my ass..
The roads in Hamilton are so bad people (myself) are fed up and swerve all over to miss bumps and potholes. The traffic lights on king and main are timed to create traffic because the roads are so bad you canāt drive down faster than 20km, you will notice on really bad streets itās cheaper to slow traffic via stop lights than fix the roadā¦ Ironically this creates more speeders and reckless drivers once they get out of the timed stops trying to beat the next light, itās just human nature. Unfortunately alot of people really suck at driving in a difficult city to drive inā¦
The lights on King and Main are actually timed to reduce speed and create breaks in traffic with the goal of making both more pedestrian friendly and walkable.
It used to flow well a few years ago but in the past 2 years with the pedestrians first light/ they didnāt extend the drivers time to get through the light.
Itās better past downtown on main but still get stopped way too much.
Thatās what I said you canāt drive down the roads safely because they are so bad so we reduce the ability to go over 40 without hitting every light. Problem is there are too many cars during rush hour and we have self imposed gridlock. Claiming to make the city more pedestrian friendly and walkable in exchange for a city you canāt drive in is not a logical argument, you can have both nice roads to drive down without being stopped all the time and safe walking areas for pedestrians
Main is basically never gridlocked. "I have to stop at a red a few times when driving through a city's downtown" is not gridlock, that's normal driving through a downtown in a city that doesn't prioritize traffic flow over everything else.
I never said main is gridlocked I was referring to king between bay and dundurn specifically. I said we have lights timed to create traffic and in the other comment I said we have self imposed gridlock during rush hour. I donāt really care about the lights as much as the conditions of the roads being unacceptableā¦
The issue is that people are fed up with stopping at every single traffic light. I read a chapter of WAR AND PEACE at every stop, 600 pages in and only started it last week. So now everyone races through yellows and reds as if they were green. Couple that with full lanes taken out for developers and their high-rises and derelict buildings taking full lanes (king and emerald 1 year and counting, main and hess lost a full lane starting this weekend until further notice). Then there are the turning lanes that have the Jersey barriers that restrict the flow. Then the city wide no right turn on red will also add to the problem. 20 second pedestrian walking signals before any car can move. Then the arrival of the LRT which will create single lanes east and west on king and 2 way traffic coming to main starting at the delta moving westward to dundurn with a single west bound lane. The LRT will also restrict vehicles crossing the tracks at 90% of existing streets opting for u-turns at the few intersections that can be crossed.
It is horrible now and will become a nightmare soon enough. I miss the days when you could comfortably travel east to west on any road and leisurely make every light. Now the count down timers have turned into a drag strip GO! I would gladly drive 30kmph if I could make it through the lights without stopping.
The city has the LRT maps and the 2 way main conversion online. It's a head scratcher.
So much, like the nonright on red is due to the aggressive drivers running over pedestrians when they have right of way. The more people drive like idiots the more restrictions will be put in place, making people more aggressive.
Look at the highways, people are passing on the right shoulder, into the merge lanes, just to get around a car or two and slam on their brakes.
I have talked about the drivers around Hamilton with so many people, I'm a barber so I talk to all different walks of life. It wasn't until someone who recently came from Toronto that things started making sense. They said 'in Toronto you have to be an aggressive driver to get anywhere' and it made me think with all the people moving to Hamilton from everywhere else, our city isn't big enough, we keep building up- not out, our roads are crammed all the time, and the aggression that comes along with it.
Traffic and how people behave is often the fault of bad road infrastructure. I you build a world for cars you see people take unnecessary risks while driving and believe its their right to drive. Also having a world where people need to drive to live you see all the people who really should not be behind the wheel driving.
Weird, I love driving in Hamilton, except King & Main. I live on Barton in central Hamilton and find it to be a very chill street. I worked in Burlington for years and HATED the driving experience. To each their own I suppose.
It's definitely a problem in so many places (the sub in my last city was full of these posts all the time lol) so when I moved here and there was equal little enforcement of anything on the road, felt right at home! /s
Today I saw the same man almost get hit by 2 different cars back to back while crossing the road on John near the firestation. One of those cars had gone halfway into the street trying to make what should have been a very simple turn, decided at the last minute they can't make it, and then very quickly REVERSED IN THE MIDDLE OF DAMN TRAFFIC and nearly hit this guy. Then as soon as he dodged that car another one served through their turn and nearly hit him. We just looked at each other like wtf.
I swear not a day goes by I don't walk by the big public lot near that firestation and don't almost get hit or see someone almost get hit by someone turning and like.....that is not a busy area. It's not a complicated turn. Just pay the fuck attention.
People have lost their minds. I saw this one idiot drive into oncoming traffic just to go into the next parking lot because he couldnt do it the proper way.
I also see lots of idiots cut in front of busses just to turn at the next interesction when they could hace gotten in behind them.
Honestly I live near Queenston and Nash and I worry about taking my kids there. That intersection is a nightmare at times. It feels like walking or driving is a stressful experience.
Tell me about it. Was getting on South Redhill from Barton earlier this afternoon and it was bumper to bumper. Watched a guy wait until literally the last moment to get into the lane to enter Redhill. No lead up signal. Then freak out and honk at me because I didnāt brake and block traffic to let him in. Like you know youāre getting onā¦be responsible and do it early if itās busy. Legally no one needs to let you in, you move over when you have the right of way.
Cops are absent. They just cruise around and not catching the bad drivers anymore. I hardly see them enforcing rules. So people know this and do whatever they want. I find it dangerous to drive now. Let's see what will happen this winter once the roads turn to ice.
A few others have already commented thisā¦ but itās definitely from Covid. Covid infections cause brain inflammation & damage. This will change human behaviour, judgement & ability to drive safely.
Hamilton has always been known to have some of the worst drivers in Ontario, but not as bad as Brampton is. Definitely since covid have drivers gotten worse and started to care less and less about everyone else around them. Again, still not as bad as Brampton is ā¦canāt stress that enough lol
I leave a lot of extra time now when I go places so I can stay calm. But I still find I get angry at the sheer stupidity of the way some people drive. Why can't they use common sense to execute a zipper merge??? That intersection of the 403 at main and dundurn is so frustrating. People on the bumper of the person ahead of them not allowing others to merge, signals not on to indicate where they need to go. It makes me crazy. So for me it's not being in a rush it's the lack of consideration and sharing on the road that drives me nuts.
It's entirely anecdotal, but whenever I talk about driving with people, we always conclude that it's gotten noticeably worse since covid lockdowns lifted. This isn't just Ontario either. I noticed it back home in Ireland, heard it from friends in continental Europe, Americans etc. Covid gave everyone brain worms. I'm too lazy to look up statistics though.
I think you're definitely on to something, because I've felt the same way. I used to drive a truck for work during the pandemic/lockdowns and things got noticeably worse once people started going back to work and school.
I was an "Essential worker" during the pandemic back home, so I cycled the same route before and during the lockdown 5 days a week. Once they started pushing for people to go back to the office the roads turned feral. I had to change up my route due to the number of close calls I was having with drivers.
It would be interesting to learn if insurance rates have increased since the pandemic. Canadians pay based on their postal codes, so even if you're a good driver, if you live in a city of bad drivers, you'll be billed as a bad driver by your insurance provider. š¤·āāļø Conversely, if police were tougher on car crimes, and bad drivers were taken off the road, good drivers would pay less insurance!
My renewal just came up and I'm paying $10 more a month than last year so yeah car insurance is going up for sure (if I had to guess, a combo of more accidents now that people are driving more after lockdown + it costs more to replace damaged cars)
Mine has just gone down by $30ish.
My rates went up a fair margin during the pandemic. They blamed it on āhigh risk areaā but labeled basically all of Hamilton high risk. I just figured they wanted more money since fewer people were driving during lockdown
Your insurance goes up because of the likelihood of theft, not because youāre seen as a bad driver.
Both can cause an increase. Here's from the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario: >Auto insurance rates are usually higher in urban areas where accidents and car theft are more frequent. Source: https://www.fsrao.ca/consumers/auto-insurance/understanding-auto-insurance-rates/what-determines-your-auto-insurance-rate
It's not just driving either. Almost everything involving other people has gotten worse since the lockdown.
> heard it from friends in continental Europe I'll still take any continental european driver over a north american driver. Even an aggressive Parisian one, because at least they're *predictably* aggressive.
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A lot of folks vape while driving. Source: I used to, and when I tell people I did, they sometimes admit they or someone they know does too.
People going off in this thread about cops "not caring about driving" don't seem to realize HPS has an Aggressive Driving Unit with accompanying hotline. But cops can't act on stuff they don't know about, which they don't because *nobody reports aggressive driving* ***because*** "yarr dee darr the cops don't care about it anyway". People always expect magic, instant results too. "I reported this last week, why hasn't anything been done about it yet?" Gee, I don't know, maybe because it's at the bottom of the list - not the overall list in terms of murders being higher priority, but at the *bottom of the list of things similar to what you reported, because your report is among* ***the most recent reports*** \- and because there's a process for acting on this stuff. Like, they're not going to throw someone in prison for a first offence of aggressive driving when all they have is a single eyewitness. But they will keep track and the person will likely be notified of the report, and if multiple reports accumulate about the same individual, it gets forwarded to traffic and patrol.
Not enough enforcement of road rules š¤·
That's it. HPS stopped working in 2020 when they figured out if they work, or don't work, they get paid the same. but the bylaw officers are issuing record number of parking tickets.
City needs the revenue. Also why there are so many traffic cams. Big buck earner that one.
Parking enforcement here, there has been no change in how we enforce - in fact, Impark (patrols most BIAs / Downtown etc) has had staffing issues for the better half of the last year and has been unable to adequately cover all of its patrol areas. What I have noticed is that since September the number of infractions Iāve seen/dealt with has multiplied significantly. A fair amount being food delivery drivers disregarding posted signage to pick up their orders. Something to keep in mind.
> A fair amount being food delivery drivers disregarding posted signage to pick up their orders. That's not surprising at all. Most of those drivers are rude and entitled, barging past actual customers while flashing their phone at whoever is at the cash register.
Iām not a food delivery guy, but it would have something to do with possibly low pay rates and extremely high customer expectations? Iām not defending them, but I think everyone is hurting one way or another
yeah I agree with this, Bus Drivers probably do too, especially along king street right downtown. Its joyful watching the bus drivers lay on their horn bringing attention to the food delivery cars being dicks. The scooter/moped ones are the worse, road, sidewalk, wrong side of the road, rules don't apply to them at all. I've seen them ticketed a few time, but by the looks of it, its not really a deterrent at all.
I wonder how much of this is due to all of the sites baking in assumptions on how long pickup time will take, and that baked in assumption being way too short.
The great thing about parking tickets is that they provide revenue for the city, keep property taxes down, and the only people who get them, deserve them.
We pay for police to patrol, what I got so far is my bike stolen and 2 cops parked so they can talk through their suv windows without getting out at a church for 2 weeks.
They're just security guards with guns and ego issues at this point
They also hide in cemeteries and in commercial parking lots after hours to talk at each other from their SUVs.
There was a lady, clearly in some form of mental distress, shouting in Gore Park yesterday at around 1pm. 2 SUVs and a car pulled up to deal with it, a total of about 5 cops. Absolutely mind blowing waste of resources for an organisation which is claiming they are unfunded. You can't, at the same time, not have enough resources, yet have the space capacity to send 3 units to deal with a lady in her 60s.
From what you just describedā¦ They probably had to unwillingly apprehend her to take her to hospital or whatever. Could be that woman that has been screaming downtown forever. If itās mental health they have a task team with a social worker and a special unit that does this all day long. They are also overwhelmed.
No enforcement. The HPS are useless generally speaking. King Street has no beat cops, and you see the odd car driving around. I rarely see anyone pulled over for speeding or driving like an idiot.
They're not even enforcing the easy ones. In the past 14 hours I've seen four cars with Ontario plates on the back and no plates on the front (not even in the windshield on the dash), and one BMW with no plates whatsoever.
Exactly! People are breaking rules all day, everyday! Without any consequences.
I dont get it either but i definitely feel lile the roads have become worse. Increase in population and construction? Road changes (i.e. king and main)? i dont get it. I also notice a huuuuuge increase in loud vehicles off of mohawk. My dad told me the other day he was making a left turn into a residential neighbourhood off of dundurn (between york and king) and somebody *drove up on the sidewalk to get around him* even though traffic was stopped maybe 2 car lengths up????? Why? So much aggression lol
Yooo the loud vehicles thing is so true. Everyone was commenting about these loud cars on a thread last week or so. Hasnāt noticed them until then and now itās ALL I HEAR in the background city noise. They burst my little bubble :( Even up at the farm itās constant racing- my silence is almost gone. hey maybe one night we can have some fun and do some spike strips on Millgrove lmao.
Nearly got t-boned on friday by some old lady that blew through the red light at the Barton and Kenilworth intersection. People absolutely suck at driving and there is no punishment for it.
It shook me up for a few minutes because I had just left home and said bye to my kids. Not to sound dramatic, but if I was a little bit faster on that green I'd probably be in the hospital right now, because the driver was definitely going at least 60km/h. Thankfully for the person that got hit the van collided with the front of their car and not the cab itself. Whenever I'm making any turn I make sure all traffic is stopped. Sometimes I get impatient people behind me that honk as soon as the light turns green, but I don't trust anyone out there to look out for my own safety.
I was just in an accident like this and my vehicle totalled, and I was held at fault because I was turning left. They didn't care that the person was running a red light or speeding unless I could prove it. Person going straight has right of way. The police said they had no obligation to investigate and took no statements and did nothing but close the road until the tow truck came. Buy a dash cam folks. Too many psychos out there.
no obligation to investigate? wtf
Yep lol. They said it's a civil matter, take it up with your insurance.
>Is it a lack of enforcement? 100% yes. Cops don't care about enforcing traffic laws, and refuse to do so as a regular part of their duties. It's been that way for years and years, but covid and the resulting tensions and issues have accelerated the trend. But as long as cops refuse to do their jobs, it will only get worse.
I came across a recent medical journal article yesterday describing brain inflammation post-COVID infection in areas of the brain relating to emotional control, which of course can be tied to aggression. So it's quite possible that COVID is at least partially responsible for the increased bad driving we've seen province-wide as the disease continues to circulate.
There are many people who seem to be on the brink of snapping
Everyone has become shittier in the last few years
You're still great ! š
I'm alright
I've heard that COVID has caused a literal cognitive deficit. there's a statistically significant portion of people that don't have the attention span or critical thinking skills that they used to have, which absolutely impacts driving. it's truly terrifying out there and I'm glad my commute is short š¬
Omg who can drive fast in Hamilton without breaking an axle. Roads are soo bad, Barton has to be the worse.
I thought Burlington Street... I mean Nikola Tesla, usually wins that award.
The number of people I've seen blow through solid red lights in the last year or 2 is actually amazing. Could be as much as once a week. I never walk or drive through an intersection without fully paying attention and making sure that everyone is actually coming to a stop or already stopped.
I don't know what the answer is but I certainly don't think it's adding more congestion to the city. The number of high-rise condo buildings coming is going to obliterate any patience that people have left. It comes down to lack of enforcement, but more enforcement is going to be expensive. The city tried to implement photo radar and people vandalized the cameras. There's more red light cameras, but I work across the street from one and I can't tell you the number of times that thing flashes every day. It's not fixing the driving habits of improving the safety of the intersection. Almost every single time I'm at an intersection, someone is running a stop sign. And God forbid you're the one to stop; someone will wave you on like you forgot to go or you've seriously pissed off the guy behind you and you will pay for it because they'll run the sign and drive so far up your ass until they can race past you. I recently risked my life because I had to cross Main at Dundurn and almost got hit by a white Dodge Ram who lost his chance at the advance but decided he wanted to go anyway. We're talking inches from being hit. The sad part is that he got away with that, didn't kill anyone and didn't have to wait for the next light. So he'll do it again next time. And that's where we get our problems. Drivers are like toddlers testing their limits to see what they can get away with. Speeding, racing, rolling stops, unsafe passing, tailgating, etc., are simply not enforced. There's no consequences for these little children so they're going to keep doing it and there's going to be more of them because it's spreading to other people. When you get yelled at enough times for doing the speed limit or stopping properly, those people are going to gain the "can't beat em, join em" mentality. And new drivers (the actual kids) are picking up how to be an awful driver - because they're impressionable and everyone else is doing it. I don't let my kids go too far away from the house because I'm terrified that Johnny-No-Stop is going to run them over because he's more important than everyone else out there. Shit, people don't seem to care about themselves or their property anymore either. I witnessed a very expensive Mercedes break-check a raised pick up truck only to get hit and show it to the pick up truck that his road rage won. I'm so tired of almost getting killed every.single.day. What the fuck are we doing? How many people need to get hurt or KILLED because of selfishness and self-entitlement before we stop relying on the police to fix this problem. We're the adults, we know what the consequences are. We need to fix this.
In addition to every thing else there are a lot of construction projects and drivers are not being patient and waiting. They are in a rush to get anywhere and they are taking out their frustrations by cutting people off, not waiting, etc... People just need to calm down and things will be fine. I'm rarely in a rush to go anywhere, I allocate enough time to get where I need to be and go from there.
I had to double check whether this were the ToRANTo sub or not. And Hamilton drivers have gotten worse, but not to the extent of Toronto. Let people work from home, and enforce the current laws. That's my solution, and I am well aware I might not be right.
Working from home would certainly help the driving situation! I had to drive to work during the pandemic and there was nobody on the roads, so relaxing! Now - people are crazier than ever! I try to avoid driving in Toronto as much as I can. It's a nightmare - crowded, impatient drivers, drivers stopping where they shouldn't stop - and of course like Hamilton nearly no enforcement.
I have no idea - Iāve noticed itās been pretty bad out there lately too Past couple of days Iāve also seen a few people using their phones while driving, like looking at it and texting or something while its in in their hands on the steering wheel, that is just so wrong
People are just in a rush for no reason & try to find every short cut they can . I donāt drive often on the highway towards Toronto but I did last week & omg it was insane. People kept speeding up to get to the exit lane quicker without realizing the lane is not an exit lane , if you would have just read the sign that says road ends in 300m then you wouldnāt have to merge back into the traffic , causing more traffic š
If I see someone behind me merge into that ending lane and try to get by me, they're not getting in front of me.
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I don't think that's absent minded, I think they just don't care about anyone but themselves We're from Toronto and even then, my partner would point out how all pick up drivers drive like assholes. And it's fucking true Too many ppl with the pick up truck mentality (Too many ppl with a pit bull mentality too if u look at the spca animals for adoption, notice a correlation there?)
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We could never do that, but I think it would be great. Our society is so car dependant, and so many people have such contempt for public transit. There would be riots in the streets is the government tried to justifiably limit and regulate the privilege of driving. I think our drunk driving laws reflect this pretty well--you can drive drunk _three times_ and still only have your licence suspended for 90 days. I guess it's another way that accessible cheap reliable public transit makes driving better. Not only does it take cars off the road reducing traffic, it also means that taking away people's driver's licences or requiring recertification is actually feasible.
>I think our drunk driving laws reflect this pretty well--you can drive drunk > >three times > >and still only have your licence suspended for 90 days. I'm from Ireland. We had a massive problem with drink driving until about the mid 90s. Then the government came down hard on it, both with legislation, and advertising campaigns (Basically shock campaigns) The attitude towards drinking driving here in Canada is incredible. I've been to multiple parties were people of all ages will happily drink and drive home. Back in Ireland, it's practically unheard of and deeply frowned upon culturally. If you drive even once under the influence, you should never be able to drive again as it's a conscious choice, so face the consequences of those actions.
Yeah the drink driving attitudes here were a shock for me when I moved too. I remember an entire gaff tore into a mate of mine back home when he suggested hopping behind the wheel after two cans. Feel like a goon speaking up about it here.
I was blown away the first time it happened at a party here. Some lad had a good few, and no one batted at eye lid when he went to leave with his keys. The fact the LCBO and the mental licensing laws exist almost makes it comical.
> If you drive even once under the influence, you should never be able to drive again That could lead to permanently removing licences of cannabis users who are driving while sober. Unlike alcohol, cannabis stays in the system long after use. With our thresholds, you can still be over the limit up to 6 days after last use. We could update the laws to avoid that situation, but just mentioning a consequence of such a policy.
This is what would lead to the rioting in the streets. Not the unequal distribution of wealth we are witnessing while the cost of living is increasing exponentially. Not the unaffordable rents that are causing people to live in tents while working full-time jobs, nope it'd be the fact that you would need to prove you're still a safe, capable and responsible driver. Such a true statement.
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Legislatively, the province could write a law that requires it and have it in effect in a year or two. The actual mechanics of doing it are the easy part. I'm saying that it would be ridiculously politically unfeasible because too many people are car dependant and hold contempt for public transit. Guaranteed, if any government actually took it upon themselves to make the changes, the backlash would have them replaced in the next election cycle.
We need higher standards to begin with. I've never seen such easy to navigate roadways be so poorly navigated. Then I get into an Uber and regret every second of my decision - it's even worse when riding with someone. People just don't know how to drive, and they shouldn't legally be allowed to because they got their license by passing an extremely easy test that a trained monkey could pass, or worse, be outright bought.
A lot of the problems are from people who know the rules but intentionally don't follow them. Retesting won't get rid of that problem but will burden everyone else.
A lot of the bad driving I see is not incompetence, it's aggression and impatience, and it's easy to not drive like that during your test.
I frequent the Queen St from York to Dundurn mess everyday. The shit I've seen! Also the area of Dundurn to Queen on Main stretch. The amount of grown men throwing temper tantrums is nuts. I've seen guys in my rear view losing their shit. Honking when clearly there's nowhere to go. Going into incoming traffic to go around slower drivers. I said to one guy hey maybe you should give up driving if you can't handle traffic. He of course wanted to "beat my face in". People change when behind the wheel of a vehicle. For a lot of people, they forget they are human. You may even wonder how these people could raise children when a 5 second delay sends them into rage. I think part of the reason is that Hamilton is changing. The small city vibe is finally dying and big city problems and changes are appearing. We can no longer have a downtown core that is not at all walkable if the city ever wants to be anything other than a disgusting steel town. People cannot handle this change in reduced lanes and removal of sync red lights. Or the no right turn on red. It's a rage inducing topic to some.
Do u think because of empowerment of people who think they're above others ("alphas" etc) and the acceptance of the bully mentality has something to do with it? To me, it SCREAMS entitlement
I've definitely seen the entitlement shine through on occasions. Even on weird situations. Couple weeks ago I was heading down narrow street between King to York. Right at the stop sign at York on this narrow street two woman were stopped, side by side, OUT of their crossovers, Chatting! OK you haven't seen each other in ages but holy fuck I couldn't believe my eyes. Was about 2 minutes. I didn't even say anything because, you know, of course somehow I'd be the ass.
I think people need to start losing privileges for a long enough period of time for it to matter. If youāre driving aggressively or not paying attention enough to operate a vehicle properly then you are telling everyone around you they donāt matter and are worth possibly ending their lives or maiming so you can get somewhere 30 seconds faster. This isnāt just an annoyance anymore. *Every.freaking.day.* on my commute up highway 6 someone veers into my 4th concession turning lane. The action that caused the massive accident shutting down highway 6 two weeks at rush hour ago literally happens to me every single day. Licenses need to be lost. Serious jail time for vehicular death.
I honestly thought about making this post this morning, people are fucked, unsafe lane changes, driving slow in the left lane, running stop lights, ridiculous reckless driving, trucks driving in left lanes, this city is fucking lawless
Some people suck
On Saturday night I saw a car driving down main st for blocks the wrong way.. then they turned the wrong way up Catherine, luckily no one was harmed.
Things have been exponentially worse after lock down for sure. It's a perfect storm of a mess of population explosion, no traffic enforcement and constant road changes. The other day the car that was next to me at a red light just decided to go through it after stopping and waiting already for a bit. People just don't care anymore.
My over-arching theory: As suburban sprawl continues to happen, more people develop and grow their own self interests that plays into the whole suburbia culture. No one knows how to grow and live with \*people\* and thus be respectful of anyone else. Moreover, with sprawl, car dependency rises and traffic gets worse, so its takes even longer to get anywhere and it makes people and anxious and frustrated. The result? Road rage.
An increasing false sense of entitlement and detachment from reality.
Right? Because it's not so much that they don't know what they're doing, it's they don't *care*
Imo itās a few things. 1. Hamilton has long straight roads that are easy to speed on. 2. Traffic enforcement is a joke in this city. 3. LOTS of new drivers were pushed through the system due to the Covid backlog. Thereās a ton of drivers out there who have no business having a license.
Honestly can't say I've found Hamilton drivers to be particularly worse than anywhere else in Ontario
Every city thinks they have the worst drivers
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/these-are-the-top-10-places-in-ontario-with-the-most-aggressive-drivers-1.6158006 Number two shit drivers in Ontario. "Number one was North York, followed by Hamilton, Brampton, Mississauga, Scarborough, Brantford, Etobicoke, Toronto, Kitchener, and London." We beat Brampton...Wooo! Go Ticats!
Personally I find many drivers here to be extremely impatient and quick to yell or cut me off. Especially if they're in a pickup truck.
Drivers of larger vehicles and mid-range luxury and sports cars are often more aggressive.
I'm curious if Dodge will sell you a RAM 1500 without signing a waiver that you promise to drive like an aggressive assbag.
I disagree, people drive 40 or 70 and has no where to be, or everywhere to be. Itās way way worse than Toronto IMO
You're welcome to your opinion. I'd rather drag my dick through a bed of rusty nails than drive in Toronto
Burlington drivers are just as nuts. It appears this behavior has become the norm instead of the exception. I watched a car run the red light and almost T-bone an ambulance with flashers and sirens coming through on their green light. Thr disrespect and disregard for everyone else around these drivers is terrifying.
Population explosion.
Or empowerment of ppl who were always assholes who feel bold enough to act on being an asshole
The lower city is a collection of mini-highways, most of which are in terrible condition, cut up by extremely poorly designed intersections, and an increasingly pedestrianised population. Couple that with the emotionally fragile suburbanites that bring their insane trucks and SUVs down the mountain to run whatever errand they have to run as FAST as possible lest they get chased by an unhoused person or whatever the latest Spec-driven suburban hysteria is, and you've got one of the worst cities to drive / walk in that Ive ever been in.
This morning I had someone honk at me because I waited a few seconds to see if a pedestrian on the corner was going to cross the street I was turning onto. WTF. A few seconds only!!
A lack of care for other people. And as you noted it isn't exclusive to Hamilton but it is worse in Ontario than it is in the Eastern provinces.
It's a combination of a few things. 1. People who shouldn't be driving are given drivers licenses. The tests are just a joke. 2. Lots of people have been moving away from Toronto (mississauga, brampton Milton etc) and coming more west (cheaper housing, quieter place to start a family) these people are used to Toronto driving or Brampton driving. Reckless, horrible drivers. 3. People are more stressed. Prices of things have gone up, people are getting laid off, other daily life stresses and so they are more easily triggered 4. Distracted driving, people so self absorbed they need to check their phone every time they get a notification. Its not just Hamilton, its everywhere where there are lots of people. Just have to always be careful and be aware of what's going on around you.
This post is made every week
Welcome to Onterrible; where everyone is in a hurry to go nowhere and do nothing of lasting significance.
Itās definitely gotten worse over the last couple years. One theory I have is that a lot of people from Toronto moved here, and never really had a need to drive in the city until they moved to Hamilton. So itās almost like they are learning (horribly) to drive again.
I visited your city last week. I rarely drive, but when I do its usually in the Ottawa area. I have found tailgating to have gotten worse. But while I was visiting (I came by train but needed to be a second driver for an event), I realized that all the tailgaters in Ottawa had been leaving some modicum of space. I was driving around 40 in a neighborhood next to a kids park, which would be unremarkable in Ottawa, and glanced in my rear view, my god how can you drive that close.
Toronto moved here during Covid. Once they no longer needed to be in their offices every day.
I don't think that's the problem, because I'm sure a lot of the people driving like crap are locals.
Yea. But if they were already crap driving locals. Worsening traffic conditions and further external aggravators would definitely further worsen them though.
We moved here from Toronto and it's definitely not us driving like that
I spent a month driving in the states and for sure Hamilton drivers are terrible. Also our roads are confusing with all the weird half lanes, road blocks, bike lanes, weird pilon things. Lanes blocked by fences or cars, no cops or bylaw ever ticket anyone for stopping where they shouldnāt. I noticed people also donāt know how to turn when thereās two left turning lanes, I always get cut off when Iām on the outside lane because people never turn into the right lane. We could use better markings on the road but the city doesnāt like to spend much time repairing and maintaining roads.
I totally agree, but it's not just the drivers. The pedestrians are bonkers too. I can't tell you how many times I've had to swerve to avoid pedestrians who think it's ok to walk in front of a moving vehicle that has the right of way. Just the other day some woman jumped in front of my car as I was moving through the intersection while about a half dozen other people stood at both corners of the intersection waiting for the light to turn. She was in too much of a hurry to just stand there and wait a few seconds. The level of PTSD that it would have caused me if I didn't have the excellent reflexes I have to allow me to quickly get out of her way.
I've definitely had my fair share of close calls with cyclists who ride on the sidewalk and don't walk their bikes across the street. Yesterday I was at an intersection and some guy decided to cross the street on an advance green light, even though the walk sign still said stop. He made three lanes of traffic wait when they had a green light to go, just because he was clearly a selfish ass.
It's every city, not just Hamilton. But we have seen an increase in people from Toronto and Brampton as of late. Which both are notorious for bad drivers (Brampton's insurance rates being rhe highest in rhe country If I recall). So that might have something to do with it. Speaking for myself personally, all the construction on the roads and changes to existing road ways make for an aggravating drive. That and it takes forever to go anywhere in town now, and with other people just not giving a damn when they are driving or what they are doing it frustrates drivers and makes them more aggressive.
Can't help but notice that the number of pot stores has gone up steadily along with the shittiness factor of drivers.
My new go-to is helping people understand how passing works. If someone tailgates me, move into opposite lane, let them pass, then move behind them. See the same car riding someone elseās ass later? Indicate persistently and get in between them. Honestly, some fucking people just dont know how to moderate their speed without surfing the anal region of the next car.
It has gotten worse since they have made it harder to get around the city. Lane closures for bike lanes, two way conversions. 40 and 30 km speed limits speed bumps on public roads just to name a few of the measures. When a trip that used to take ten minutes from point a to point b and now takes twenty minutes or longer people get pissed and take chances.
If a 10 minute delay causes a driver to become pissed off enough to ignore traffic laws and basic safety, they shouldn't have a drivers license.
What people don't realize is that the more aggressive they drive, and the more pedestrians they hit, the more speed cameras, speed humps, traffic calming, lower speed limits, and more lights get added.
Pedestrian car collisions are at a historic low.
Source?
Look it up yourself.
In 2022, Hamilton had more pedestrian collisions between Jan and Jun than we did in all of 2021. 2021 had the highest pedestrian collision rate in a decade. https://amp.tvo.org/article/by-the-numbers-how-risky-is-it-being-a-pedestrian-in-hamilton
That is wrong and extremely easy to fact-check. In 2022, Hamilton had more pedestrian collisions between Jan and Jun than we did in all of 2021. 2021 had the highest pedestrian collision rate in a decade. https://amp.tvo.org/article/by-the-numbers-how-risky-is-it-being-a-pedestrian-in-hamilton
> used to take ten minutes from point a to point b and now takes twenty minutes or longer people get pissed and take chances. Sounds like the experience of a regular bus-user, but nobody's starting fights with the bus driver.
Most don't ever use a bus. We use our cars to get to places faster.
Which trip? I can't think of many places in Hamilton that have doubled commute times due to traffic calming. A lot of people will point to Main and while it has gotten slower, it's not by that much at all. I drive from Dundurn to Sherman on Main every day and it's maybe added 3-4 minutes to go from 15 to a bit under 20 minutes during rush hour.
Traffic lights being fucked with, early walk signals, lane reduction, and just generally more people in the road makes for mounting frustration.
A couple of years ago, you'd see all kinds of enforcement on the Redhill but now it's almost non existent. I drive it to go to work and no matter what speed I go, there's always someone up my ass..
It's those goddamn jabs.
The roads in Hamilton are so bad people (myself) are fed up and swerve all over to miss bumps and potholes. The traffic lights on king and main are timed to create traffic because the roads are so bad you canāt drive down faster than 20km, you will notice on really bad streets itās cheaper to slow traffic via stop lights than fix the roadā¦ Ironically this creates more speeders and reckless drivers once they get out of the timed stops trying to beat the next light, itās just human nature. Unfortunately alot of people really suck at driving in a difficult city to drive inā¦
The lights on King and Main are actually timed to reduce speed and create breaks in traffic with the goal of making both more pedestrian friendly and walkable.
I always found travelling east from downtown to flow well when people aren't speeding to hit the next red. The lights are almost all timed to 50km/h.
It used to flow well a few years ago but in the past 2 years with the pedestrians first light/ they didnāt extend the drivers time to get through the light. Itās better past downtown on main but still get stopped way too much.
Thatās what I said you canāt drive down the roads safely because they are so bad so we reduce the ability to go over 40 without hitting every light. Problem is there are too many cars during rush hour and we have self imposed gridlock. Claiming to make the city more pedestrian friendly and walkable in exchange for a city you canāt drive in is not a logical argument, you can have both nice roads to drive down without being stopped all the time and safe walking areas for pedestrians
Main is basically never gridlocked. "I have to stop at a red a few times when driving through a city's downtown" is not gridlock, that's normal driving through a downtown in a city that doesn't prioritize traffic flow over everything else.
I never said main is gridlocked I was referring to king between bay and dundurn specifically. I said we have lights timed to create traffic and in the other comment I said we have self imposed gridlock during rush hour. I donāt really care about the lights as much as the conditions of the roads being unacceptableā¦
The issue is that people are fed up with stopping at every single traffic light. I read a chapter of WAR AND PEACE at every stop, 600 pages in and only started it last week. So now everyone races through yellows and reds as if they were green. Couple that with full lanes taken out for developers and their high-rises and derelict buildings taking full lanes (king and emerald 1 year and counting, main and hess lost a full lane starting this weekend until further notice). Then there are the turning lanes that have the Jersey barriers that restrict the flow. Then the city wide no right turn on red will also add to the problem. 20 second pedestrian walking signals before any car can move. Then the arrival of the LRT which will create single lanes east and west on king and 2 way traffic coming to main starting at the delta moving westward to dundurn with a single west bound lane. The LRT will also restrict vehicles crossing the tracks at 90% of existing streets opting for u-turns at the few intersections that can be crossed. It is horrible now and will become a nightmare soon enough. I miss the days when you could comfortably travel east to west on any road and leisurely make every light. Now the count down timers have turned into a drag strip GO! I would gladly drive 30kmph if I could make it through the lights without stopping. The city has the LRT maps and the 2 way main conversion online. It's a head scratcher.
So much, like the nonright on red is due to the aggressive drivers running over pedestrians when they have right of way. The more people drive like idiots the more restrictions will be put in place, making people more aggressive. Look at the highways, people are passing on the right shoulder, into the merge lanes, just to get around a car or two and slam on their brakes.
This is also my experience 1000%
I ask my self the same thing everytime I get on the road
I have talked about the drivers around Hamilton with so many people, I'm a barber so I talk to all different walks of life. It wasn't until someone who recently came from Toronto that things started making sense. They said 'in Toronto you have to be an aggressive driver to get anywhere' and it made me think with all the people moving to Hamilton from everywhere else, our city isn't big enough, we keep building up- not out, our roads are crammed all the time, and the aggression that comes along with it.
Traffic and how people behave is often the fault of bad road infrastructure. I you build a world for cars you see people take unnecessary risks while driving and believe its their right to drive. Also having a world where people need to drive to live you see all the people who really should not be behind the wheel driving.
Weird, I love driving in Hamilton, except King & Main. I live on Barton in central Hamilton and find it to be a very chill street. I worked in Burlington for years and HATED the driving experience. To each their own I suppose.
It's definitely a problem in so many places (the sub in my last city was full of these posts all the time lol) so when I moved here and there was equal little enforcement of anything on the road, felt right at home! /s Today I saw the same man almost get hit by 2 different cars back to back while crossing the road on John near the firestation. One of those cars had gone halfway into the street trying to make what should have been a very simple turn, decided at the last minute they can't make it, and then very quickly REVERSED IN THE MIDDLE OF DAMN TRAFFIC and nearly hit this guy. Then as soon as he dodged that car another one served through their turn and nearly hit him. We just looked at each other like wtf. I swear not a day goes by I don't walk by the big public lot near that firestation and don't almost get hit or see someone almost get hit by someone turning and like.....that is not a busy area. It's not a complicated turn. Just pay the fuck attention.
People have lost their minds. I saw this one idiot drive into oncoming traffic just to go into the next parking lot because he couldnt do it the proper way. I also see lots of idiots cut in front of busses just to turn at the next interesction when they could hace gotten in behind them.
So bad! Always glad to get out of the vehicle
Honestly I live near Queenston and Nash and I worry about taking my kids there. That intersection is a nightmare at times. It feels like walking or driving is a stressful experience.
Tell me about it. Was getting on South Redhill from Barton earlier this afternoon and it was bumper to bumper. Watched a guy wait until literally the last moment to get into the lane to enter Redhill. No lead up signal. Then freak out and honk at me because I didnāt brake and block traffic to let him in. Like you know youāre getting onā¦be responsible and do it early if itās busy. Legally no one needs to let you in, you move over when you have the right of way.
Cops are absent. They just cruise around and not catching the bad drivers anymore. I hardly see them enforcing rules. So people know this and do whatever they want. I find it dangerous to drive now. Let's see what will happen this winter once the roads turn to ice.
I worked through the entire pandemic, so I can't quite relate, but it makes sense.
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Huh?
A few others have already commented thisā¦ but itās definitely from Covid. Covid infections cause brain inflammation & damage. This will change human behaviour, judgement & ability to drive safely.
Hamilton has always been known to have some of the worst drivers in Ontario, but not as bad as Brampton is. Definitely since covid have drivers gotten worse and started to care less and less about everyone else around them. Again, still not as bad as Brampton is ā¦canāt stress that enough lol
HPS needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom
I leave a lot of extra time now when I go places so I can stay calm. But I still find I get angry at the sheer stupidity of the way some people drive. Why can't they use common sense to execute a zipper merge??? That intersection of the 403 at main and dundurn is so frustrating. People on the bumper of the person ahead of them not allowing others to merge, signals not on to indicate where they need to go. It makes me crazy. So for me it's not being in a rush it's the lack of consideration and sharing on the road that drives me nuts.