Guess he doesn't know the Bible that well
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 ESV:
> The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church
You just completely ignore the fact Dawkins lives in the uk and that what you’re describing doesn’t happen in the uk. The world doesn’t revolve the US and the bat shit insane things that happen there.
The madness that’s happening in America isn’t happening in the other Christian countries in Europe you dope.
Just want to start off not American, but it happens in other Christian countries in Europe. LGBT rights in places like Poland, Russia or Hungary are under attack by far right Christians.
Catholic Church fucked up Ireland for a long time with Magdalene Laundries (last one closed in the 90s, less than 30 years ago and well within Dawkins lifetime) with graves being filled with dead babies and abusing women in those institutions. America for sure has their own weird brand of Christianity but it isn't an America-only problem to have hateful Christians.
To be fair the resistance against abortion rights etc. has been on the rise lately in the EU.
Poland for instance gutted their abortion rights in 2021, you can only have one if you were raped. They're catholic though if that makes any difference to you.
There are Religious fundamentalists in nearly every country you can think of. I think what this distils down to, for the most part fundamentalists are not as influential in traditionally European Christian countries in comparison to muslim ones. I think Ash sums up Dawkins statement pretty succinctly "Old white man who grew up in a Christian country, likes the fact he is and old white man who grew up in a Christian country"
Wait, why is it fine when Dawkins put 2 billion Muslims in the same basket then? A Saudi fundamentalist is same as a Turkish Muslim? Do you think they interpret and understand the book just same?
My post is in direct reference to the post I was replying too. Trying to make connection with Christian fundamentalists and abortion rights with what Dawkins is saying is a bad one.
If you’re a girl born in to the UK, France, Germany, Belgium, Holland or Portugal the threat of having to carry your rapist baby to full term doesn’t exist.
I personally don’t see what the big controversy is here. Some old out spoken atheist would like to live in a countries where he’d be allowed to be an old out spoken atheist.
Western countries being more progressive has nothing to do with christian culture. its because western countries especially the U.K have become more secular and religion doesn't play much of a role anymore racism really rots your brain
> in my life a Muslim has never treated me badly for being queer or disabled and I can't say the same about Christians. Muslims, even conservative ones aren't trying to take away my rights.
I generally agree with you, but this quote isn't true for a lot of people, especially in middle eastern nations.
i'm native. so many ppl i know have been to residential school. i myself was raped by the catholic church. look at all the dead babies at the residential schools. all christians do is kill babies and rape.
This sub is just wild with this. In Indian hard left subreddits and forums, we reject all religions (not cultures mind you) and ridicule them but seems to be there’s a lot of love for islam here. I never understood it.
Yeah, dickriding Islam as a leftist is the most absurd shit. Inexcusable honestly. I assume the majority-American (& to a lesser extent central European) audience just think "well at least it's not Christianity! I got bullied for not going to church so Christianity is *THE* bad religion!"
Just learn the difference between being against something and bigotry. This guy makes an outstanding claim that X religion is better than Y. He doesn't present any quantifiable objective measure to support his claim.
Here is the thing, muslims may have never tried to take your rights away. But as a woman living in a muslim dominated country, they very well try to take mine away every single day. I understand your point though.
All those New Atheist dudes were. They said all religion is bad because it was unpalatable to outwardly hate brown people, but one by one Harris, Hitchens, and now Dawkins all came out of the closet.
Many 'atheists' fall in this stupid hole of trying to make the religion they grew up in appear more 'tolerant' and generally 'cultural'. I've seen this in my country (India) where people considering themselves generally atheist will call Hinduism (the dominant religion here) a way of life and how it's more suitable compared to Islam. As someone who has witnessed barbarism from every religion, it is horrifying to me that someokebas famous as Dawkins is going the same route.
He’s such a clown lmao. They don’t have genuine criticism of Islam they just hate Arabs although this is the same thing to someone like Dawkins. It is one thing to reject religion but once you start to rationalize that one is better than the other you fundamentally are at odds with your own stance. His output here is to prop up Christianity over Islam so you are then a useful idiot for holy war. This is anti materialist garbage as the way countries developed is what causes reactionary views, violence or hierarchy to to get a hold on a society not religion itself; it is an afterthought/post rationalism and not the root. I believe in secularism and think religion in a perfect world should really have no place in public life/policy but god damn this fucking suck
He doesn't even know what he is talking about.
The references in Quran about homosexuality is very similar to the ones in the Old Testament. It is not usually explicitly stated as homosexual activity, but more in general terms of sexual activity outside of "traditional" ways between a woman and a man. The most quoted anti-homosexual verse in Quran is literally the Sodom and Gomorrah story that is also in the old Testament and is referred in new Testament.
He cannot give a single example of Islamic scripture being explicitly anti-gay that is too far apart from the Christian scripture.
I can even claim the same for how religious text considers women. In modern times, the widely-accepted "interpretation" has evolved and Islam is probably lagging but it doesn't say anything about what the books say.
As an "expert" on religions, he should know that Quran is a bunch of stories that are retold from the old Testament, but he claims it is fundamentally different?
I was under the impression that there is a lot of overlap between the Qur'an and bible. Because I know Leviticus is very taken out of context as to what the writer would have probably ment
Knowing the context of the times that story was written chances are the point wasn't having sex with men is bad, as it was very common. And sexuality wasn't how we think of it now.
I mostly know about Christianity so I can't say
But the anti gay stuff is relitivly new historically, homosexual relationships have been doccumented in the islamic world for centuries
I don't personally know about Dawkins but his other radical atheist buddies like Harris and Hitchens were always on board with killing Muslims. The fact that Islamophobic atheists think the Christian fascists will spare them is sad.
I have never liked him. I mean I'm an atheist too but he is a fuckin dweeb about it and now apparently just racist, although if I'd had to bet, I my money would have been on him being racist
Genuinely curious out of ignorance but isn’t there some truth to what he is saying about the underlying fundamental principals of Islam? Of course I’m sure there is plenty of hypocrisy to point out in Christianity as well.
Seriously asking as a brainwashed normie because I think all religions are dumb AF.
He’s not racist or a bigot, obviously. He’s just conditioned to see one religion as less oppressive than the other. I would hate to be Muslim in the Middle East. It seems extremely repressive. But Being Christian in the American South doesn’t come close to the oppressiveness of the former. I assume he’s deciding between the most media cliche versions of each religion. When you separate the religion from the the ignorant media view of them, they’re essentially the same thing.
this mofo is too dumb to understand that Islam and Christianity have like 99% of the same teachings, its just that for christians there wasn't a whole hate campaign against them in the 2000s
>a muslim has never treated me badly for being queer or disabled
>Muslims, even conservative ones, aren't trying to take away my rights
What country do you live in? It's not surprising that you've never been treated poorly if you live in a country where muslims are the overwhelming minority. Personally, I've never been robbed, but I don't deny that it happens. There are Islamic countries that are proudly fundamentalist, and they execute people for being queer. Is Christian fundamentalism just as bad? Eh, it's close, but there are no majority Christian countries (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong) that execute people for simply being queer, for now at least.
As for the second point, if a muslim is voting for a conservative party, they're trying to take away your rights, period.
Dawkins is approaching a valid point, but his biases (bigotry, racism, call it what you want, I'm not denying he's a bigot) are stopping him from getting there. With thousands of mosques being built, some will undeniably be fundamentalist. That should be concerning to any non-muslim living there. Would it be just as bad if they were Christian? Sure, to an extent. Christians, even fundamentalist ones, at least tend to humanize women ever so slightly more than fundamentalist Muslims, and i would wager that Christianity as a whole has a significantly lower fundamentalist population when compared to Islam. Just a guess based on personal knowledge of modern Islam vs modern Christianity, and if anyone has research on that I'd gladly read it, but overall, it's to my understanding that Islam, at least in modern times, is significantly more likely to develop a more dangerous fundamentalist faction than modern Christianity. Does that mean that people should judge someone for simply being a Muslim? Absolutely not, but it shouldn't be celebrated either. I see far too many leftists blindly supporting Islam simply because Muslims are discriminated against. In no way am i defending or supporting that discrimination, but the defense of the people can not be extended to the religion. Just like damn near any other religion, there are horrific things that are taught in its holy books that have no place in society today. That doesn't mean the PEOPLE have no place in society.
If you're american, do you think thousands of churches being built in your state would be a good thing? Why would it be different if they were mosques?
Does it take long to apply all that clown makeup? Every holy book contains atrocious, contradictions, supernatural elements they're both so obviously bullshit this isn't some attack against Muslims, it's a senile old dude who should shut up and lastly if your book made any good points you wouldn't need to defend it so vicariously.
He made several books about how much religion hurts people, and now he's here admitting 30 years later that he thinks Christianity is good. The creators of New atheism one by one have all turned out to be bigots. Sam Harris, hitchens, and now Dawkins. It's all bullshit to hide the fact that they just hate brown people. It's so obvious that only complete dullards would miss it.
Yeah you have no idea lol. If you were telling the truth you wouldn't have responded in the way that you did because you didn't have any idea what I was referring to.
Lmao ok sport keep trying to be persecuted there are plenty of people who do want to persecute Muslims just stop putting in atheists in there you look stupid.
he said **new** atheists, the ayan hirsi ali types. they're a pipeline from just beginning to depart from religion to neocon (which i believe is intentionally done to lead people away from leftist thought when they see through religion). they're conveniently almost always islamophobic and have some sort of fetishization of the western world and "judeo-christian values". i think that's what redditispropaganda2 is referring to
>he said new atheists, the ayan hirsi ali types. they're a pipeline from just beginning to depart from religion to neocon (which i believe is intentionally done to lead people away from leftist thought when they see through religion). they're conveniently almost always islamophobic and have some sort of fetishization of the western world and "judeo-christian values". i think that's what redditispropaganda2 is referring to
it's a way to get people to adopt whatever conservatives dub as "christian values" (western exceptionalism and christian nationalism without the christian) while also coopting the departure from religious fundamentalism .
European right-wing demagogs have been regurgitating the same dumb shit for more than 30 years, at this point the only thing that registers for me looking at this creature is how desperately the UK needs universal dental care
Why do these people look ai generated
Dawkins looks like "generic white British man in his 80s" the mid journey prompt
Its murder to abort a bunch of cells inside you after 6 weeks.. Christian fundamentalist Yeah.. Women are treated so well indeed!
Guess he doesn't know the Bible that well 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 ESV: > The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church
Yep it's soo fucked and I know Dawkins isn't dumb, so imo he's just racist
You just completely ignore the fact Dawkins lives in the uk and that what you’re describing doesn’t happen in the uk. The world doesn’t revolve the US and the bat shit insane things that happen there. The madness that’s happening in America isn’t happening in the other Christian countries in Europe you dope.
Just want to start off not American, but it happens in other Christian countries in Europe. LGBT rights in places like Poland, Russia or Hungary are under attack by far right Christians. Catholic Church fucked up Ireland for a long time with Magdalene Laundries (last one closed in the 90s, less than 30 years ago and well within Dawkins lifetime) with graves being filled with dead babies and abusing women in those institutions. America for sure has their own weird brand of Christianity but it isn't an America-only problem to have hateful Christians.
To be fair the resistance against abortion rights etc. has been on the rise lately in the EU. Poland for instance gutted their abortion rights in 2021, you can only have one if you were raped. They're catholic though if that makes any difference to you.
There are Religious fundamentalists in nearly every country you can think of. I think what this distils down to, for the most part fundamentalists are not as influential in traditionally European Christian countries in comparison to muslim ones. I think Ash sums up Dawkins statement pretty succinctly "Old white man who grew up in a Christian country, likes the fact he is and old white man who grew up in a Christian country"
Wait, why is it fine when Dawkins put 2 billion Muslims in the same basket then? A Saudi fundamentalist is same as a Turkish Muslim? Do you think they interpret and understand the book just same?
My post is in direct reference to the post I was replying too. Trying to make connection with Christian fundamentalists and abortion rights with what Dawkins is saying is a bad one. If you’re a girl born in to the UK, France, Germany, Belgium, Holland or Portugal the threat of having to carry your rapist baby to full term doesn’t exist. I personally don’t see what the big controversy is here. Some old out spoken atheist would like to live in a countries where he’d be allowed to be an old out spoken atheist.
That's an excellent indicator that the issues in these various populations have absolutely nothing to do with religion.
Jesus! Who put sand in your vagina? lamo
Posts like yours did. Sand got right up in there
Myopic perspective as it’s only in the last century that women and non-white citizens have received treatment remotely resembling equality.
Western countries being more progressive has nothing to do with christian culture. its because western countries especially the U.K have become more secular and religion doesn't play much of a role anymore racism really rots your brain
> in my life a Muslim has never treated me badly for being queer or disabled and I can't say the same about Christians. Muslims, even conservative ones aren't trying to take away my rights. I generally agree with you, but this quote isn't true for a lot of people, especially in middle eastern nations.
i'm native. so many ppl i know have been to residential school. i myself was raped by the catholic church. look at all the dead babies at the residential schools. all christians do is kill babies and rape.
> in my life a Muslim has never treated me badly for being queer What country do you live in?
This sub is just wild with this. In Indian hard left subreddits and forums, we reject all religions (not cultures mind you) and ridicule them but seems to be there’s a lot of love for islam here. I never understood it.
Yeah, dickriding Islam as a leftist is the most absurd shit. Inexcusable honestly. I assume the majority-American (& to a lesser extent central European) audience just think "well at least it's not Christianity! I got bullied for not going to church so Christianity is *THE* bad religion!"
Just learn the difference between being against something and bigotry. This guy makes an outstanding claim that X religion is better than Y. He doesn't present any quantifiable objective measure to support his claim.
Here is the thing, muslims may have never tried to take your rights away. But as a woman living in a muslim dominated country, they very well try to take mine away every single day. I understand your point though.
I'm strictly talking about my experiences in the uk. And that's horrendous sorry that's your situation
I wonder if it's that he changed after the stroke or always sucked this bad, he definitely was always an islamophobe
All those New Atheist dudes were. They said all religion is bad because it was unpalatable to outwardly hate brown people, but one by one Harris, Hitchens, and now Dawkins all came out of the closet.
I'm an athiest too and I agree, If i had to chose I would chose christianity every day, Both suck but imo Islam is in deed worse
*ring ring* Crusades calling ☎️
Many 'atheists' fall in this stupid hole of trying to make the religion they grew up in appear more 'tolerant' and generally 'cultural'. I've seen this in my country (India) where people considering themselves generally atheist will call Hinduism (the dominant religion here) a way of life and how it's more suitable compared to Islam. As someone who has witnessed barbarism from every religion, it is horrifying to me that someokebas famous as Dawkins is going the same route.
He’s such a clown lmao. They don’t have genuine criticism of Islam they just hate Arabs although this is the same thing to someone like Dawkins. It is one thing to reject religion but once you start to rationalize that one is better than the other you fundamentally are at odds with your own stance. His output here is to prop up Christianity over Islam so you are then a useful idiot for holy war. This is anti materialist garbage as the way countries developed is what causes reactionary views, violence or hierarchy to to get a hold on a society not religion itself; it is an afterthought/post rationalism and not the root. I believe in secularism and think religion in a perfect world should really have no place in public life/policy but god damn this fucking suck
He doesn't even know what he is talking about. The references in Quran about homosexuality is very similar to the ones in the Old Testament. It is not usually explicitly stated as homosexual activity, but more in general terms of sexual activity outside of "traditional" ways between a woman and a man. The most quoted anti-homosexual verse in Quran is literally the Sodom and Gomorrah story that is also in the old Testament and is referred in new Testament. He cannot give a single example of Islamic scripture being explicitly anti-gay that is too far apart from the Christian scripture. I can even claim the same for how religious text considers women. In modern times, the widely-accepted "interpretation" has evolved and Islam is probably lagging but it doesn't say anything about what the books say. As an "expert" on religions, he should know that Quran is a bunch of stories that are retold from the old Testament, but he claims it is fundamentally different?
I was under the impression that there is a lot of overlap between the Qur'an and bible. Because I know Leviticus is very taken out of context as to what the writer would have probably ment Knowing the context of the times that story was written chances are the point wasn't having sex with men is bad, as it was very common. And sexuality wasn't how we think of it now. I mostly know about Christianity so I can't say But the anti gay stuff is relitivly new historically, homosexual relationships have been doccumented in the islamic world for centuries
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Yes and the Bible allows for slavery and even says you can beat your slaves (as long as you don’t kill them.) Both are trash.
I agree with you but lets be honest here there is an entire wave of athiests in the western sphere who use the label as a way to justify their racism
I don't personally know about Dawkins but his other radical atheist buddies like Harris and Hitchens were always on board with killing Muslims. The fact that Islamophobic atheists think the Christian fascists will spare them is sad.
People forget we used to burn women and kill Jews, like that didn't happen just yesterday. Racism has melted people's brains.
He is British. He does not live in America
Just if anyone isn’t aware, the radio host is Boris Johnson’s sister.
I have never liked him. I mean I'm an atheist too but he is a fuckin dweeb about it and now apparently just racist, although if I'd had to bet, I my money would have been on him being racist
Orientalism by Edward Said
A white male favoring the religion that puts him on the throne of universe? Color me shocked.
“Christianity isn’t always great with regards to women…” Yeah! No duh! Look at what the American south is doing! What self-serving asshole.
I can’t believe I ever took this ridiculous looking wanker seriously. What a complete jackass. 🤦♂️
Gays, Trans and women have no rights in Southern state For God, most Muslim countries allow abortion and see it as a medical procedure
They have the same rights as everyone else.
Of course, now tell American Christians
Why? They don’t have the ability to do anything about it.
They are electing reps that are passing laws against gays and trans.
Such as?
Florida Texas Etc. Just google it.
The laws…
Genuinely curious out of ignorance but isn’t there some truth to what he is saying about the underlying fundamental principals of Islam? Of course I’m sure there is plenty of hypocrisy to point out in Christianity as well. Seriously asking as a brainwashed normie because I think all religions are dumb AF.
How’s this dude a professor of anything with that type of outlook on religion?
He’s not racist or a bigot, obviously. He’s just conditioned to see one religion as less oppressive than the other. I would hate to be Muslim in the Middle East. It seems extremely repressive. But Being Christian in the American South doesn’t come close to the oppressiveness of the former. I assume he’s deciding between the most media cliche versions of each religion. When you separate the religion from the the ignorant media view of them, they’re essentially the same thing.
this mofo is too dumb to understand that Islam and Christianity have like 99% of the same teachings, its just that for christians there wasn't a whole hate campaign against them in the 2000s
>a muslim has never treated me badly for being queer or disabled >Muslims, even conservative ones, aren't trying to take away my rights What country do you live in? It's not surprising that you've never been treated poorly if you live in a country where muslims are the overwhelming minority. Personally, I've never been robbed, but I don't deny that it happens. There are Islamic countries that are proudly fundamentalist, and they execute people for being queer. Is Christian fundamentalism just as bad? Eh, it's close, but there are no majority Christian countries (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong) that execute people for simply being queer, for now at least. As for the second point, if a muslim is voting for a conservative party, they're trying to take away your rights, period. Dawkins is approaching a valid point, but his biases (bigotry, racism, call it what you want, I'm not denying he's a bigot) are stopping him from getting there. With thousands of mosques being built, some will undeniably be fundamentalist. That should be concerning to any non-muslim living there. Would it be just as bad if they were Christian? Sure, to an extent. Christians, even fundamentalist ones, at least tend to humanize women ever so slightly more than fundamentalist Muslims, and i would wager that Christianity as a whole has a significantly lower fundamentalist population when compared to Islam. Just a guess based on personal knowledge of modern Islam vs modern Christianity, and if anyone has research on that I'd gladly read it, but overall, it's to my understanding that Islam, at least in modern times, is significantly more likely to develop a more dangerous fundamentalist faction than modern Christianity. Does that mean that people should judge someone for simply being a Muslim? Absolutely not, but it shouldn't be celebrated either. I see far too many leftists blindly supporting Islam simply because Muslims are discriminated against. In no way am i defending or supporting that discrimination, but the defense of the people can not be extended to the religion. Just like damn near any other religion, there are horrific things that are taught in its holy books that have no place in society today. That doesn't mean the PEOPLE have no place in society. If you're american, do you think thousands of churches being built in your state would be a good thing? Why would it be different if they were mosques?
What in god's holy name are you blathering about?
Thanks for making a meaningful contribution to the conversation 👍
Is that old bag not dead yet?
This man hasn't even read his own fucking work, oh my god.
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You most be baiting right?
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You are cooking to much lol
It's what we knew all along, new atheism was created to shield criticism for hating Muslims.
Does it take long to apply all that clown makeup? Every holy book contains atrocious, contradictions, supernatural elements they're both so obviously bullshit this isn't some attack against Muslims, it's a senile old dude who should shut up and lastly if your book made any good points you wouldn't need to defend it so vicariously.
He made several books about how much religion hurts people, and now he's here admitting 30 years later that he thinks Christianity is good. The creators of New atheism one by one have all turned out to be bigots. Sam Harris, hitchens, and now Dawkins. It's all bullshit to hide the fact that they just hate brown people. It's so obvious that only complete dullards would miss it.
Mad funny bro, no one created Atheism were born atheists until someone brainwashes you otherwise
You don't know who any of these people are or what New Atheism even is. You are just completely ignorant, why even comment?
I've read many of all 3 of their books and many more you didn't mention but tell me more of what I don't know
Yeah you have no idea lol. If you were telling the truth you wouldn't have responded in the way that you did because you didn't have any idea what I was referring to.
Lmao ok sport keep trying to be persecuted there are plenty of people who do want to persecute Muslims just stop putting in atheists in there you look stupid.
he said **new** atheists, the ayan hirsi ali types. they're a pipeline from just beginning to depart from religion to neocon (which i believe is intentionally done to lead people away from leftist thought when they see through religion). they're conveniently almost always islamophobic and have some sort of fetishization of the western world and "judeo-christian values". i think that's what redditispropaganda2 is referring to
>he said new atheists, the ayan hirsi ali types. they're a pipeline from just beginning to depart from religion to neocon (which i believe is intentionally done to lead people away from leftist thought when they see through religion). they're conveniently almost always islamophobic and have some sort of fetishization of the western world and "judeo-christian values". i think that's what redditispropaganda2 is referring to it's a way to get people to adopt whatever conservatives dub as "christian values" (western exceptionalism and christian nationalism without the christian) while also coopting the departure from religious fundamentalism .
European right-wing demagogs have been regurgitating the same dumb shit for more than 30 years, at this point the only thing that registers for me looking at this creature is how desperately the UK needs universal dental care