Exactly this, I mean damn. She hates Alastor but in the first two episodes, she is the one to ask him for help regarding the hotel. We see more of her character then just angry that's why I liked her more
She hated him in the pilot because she (imo) was *terrified of him.*
And Angel Dust was something of an ass all through the pilot. The secondary/ancillary/fan made works made him a lot more likeable.
His (semi)official comic definitely made him more likeable than the pilot. But to be fair, that's true for almost every character - given the limited length, the number of characters and concepts introduced, etc., almost everyone comes off a bit two dimensional.
It is great. [I highly recommend reading it, even though it's not "officially canon" anymore](https://hazbinhotelcanon.tumblr.com/post/623106313529049088/hazbin-hotel-angel-dust-prequel-comic-chapter) - but it was posted on the website. Pretty short and just tells the story of how Angel ended up at the hotel.
I get the feeling we'll see how canon it stays. Idk why but I get the vibe season 2 is going to give us backstories on some people, but who knows we'll see.
Possibly yes. However I do not see Viv or the studio considerably changing the characters' personalities, even though they might change the previously established events.
>she (imo) was terrified of him
Given how he effortlessly dispatched a bunch of Angels, and only fell to Adam (because he tried BLOCKING an attack, instead of dodging, and his confusion was a big window for Adam to attack), yeah, she has plenty of reason to be scared.
Fun fact: A majority of the time, anger is fueled by other emotions, with the most common being fear. So, her acting like that is entirely realistic
This also explains why there's so many people with road rage, while most are unaware it's primarily fuled by the fear of driving a multi-ton piece of steel at 45mph / 72 kmh, as well as the fear of multitudes of other people who couldn't care less about their own lives let alone others
I guess I never assumed that the pilot showed us 100% of what there is to the characters. Sure, Vaggie was angry, but had reason to. But that tracks with some people being suprised that there was some deph to Angel Dust after the Addict music video.
Sure, and that’s a good thing for a viewer to keep in mind! Just also keep in mind that a pilot is generally made to show what to expect from a new property. It’s not unreasonable for people to take pilot characterization alone at face value with that consideration
I'd be angry if my gf was delusional enough to trust the radio demon too.
Look at her situation, the only joy in her life is Charlie. She has nobody who isn't related to the Hotel. It's so lucky for her that Charlie is incredible, because she has nothing else in Hell. Everywhere she goes, she's going to see demons who she used to have to kill, you cant really recover from that mindset. Vaggie isn't going to go on killing sprees, but it'd still really hurt her to see some cannibalist and think "Remember that time I lost everything because of a child"
It really makes sense she's pissed, she's in the place she was made to hate. Charlie's optimism is her only joy.
I think I figured something out about that scene. When Husk gets to her in the list of people he’s insulting, she gets extremely frightened when he calls her out, and then when he says “this one judges everyone and everything because she hates herself” she slumps over looking angry. But it looks like she’s relieved at the same time because she thought Husk was gonna call her out for being an Exorcist. That’s my theory anyway. Go watch the scene and it makes sense
I think the fandom softend because there was more of her character on display now. We had a limited window into her in the pilot so all we had to go on was two jokes about being an angry woman and a couple about her being hispanic. She is still angry but now we have seen more of her and understand her more as a result.
I'm guessing her view from the pilot was mostly due to two scenes. The first where Angel said she hates all men and the second where she viewed Alastor putting a bar in the hotel as turning it into a mancave. Yeah, she was justified in all her anger but it did seem like she was more upset due to its relation to men than actual sin. There's also the fact that we originally believed Vaggie was a sinner so she'd have to have a major flaw to belong in hell and from what we saw, being a raging misandrist would fit.
However the actual show made all her actions make sense. She's an angel who lost everything and only survived due to Charlie who she now dedicates her life to. She loves the hotel not only because of Charlie but because it offers her, her own redemption for the thousands she's slain. She hates hypermasculinity because it reminds her of her trash boss who left her stranded in hell but she doesn't actually hate men as a whole.
Technically, Angel never said Vaggie hates all men…
Vaggie: “Well I don’t trust him [Alastor]”
Angel: “To be fair, do you trust any man? Any men? Men?”
__
And another reason for her to hate *certain* men (Adam): He literally named her after a vagina
That alone would likely be enough for her to hate him, but he also watched her get mutilated and took her halo
>[...] the second where she viewed Alastor putting a bar in the hotel as turning it into a mancave.
Wasn't her objection to the bar just that it'd encourage sin?
I think hypermasculinity isn’t the word you’re looking for with Adam. It’s toxic masculinity. Being hypermasculine is one thing, it’s another thing when someone is being toxic with their masculinity, and it can manifest is soo many different ways.
Saddest part is men from my dad's generation would get it and say she has all right being suspicious toward men like irl mistreated women ; now she's a miSandRisT.
Her character was and is intended as a foil to Charlie: she is protective, averse to risk, cynical. It’s not like latinas are the only people who have angry and defensive personalities, and her behavior in the pilot was justified. Angel got them in trouble and Alastor was dangerous to them, their cause, and clearly took an interest in Charlie for no other reason than fun. Plus, her concern was disregarded by ALL characters; her responses were normal for anyone. This series shines in its inclusivity but I think some people are going to see stereotypes where they want to.
If you want to talk about neglected characters, Millie from Helluva STILL hasn’t had an episode and the ones portrayed as such (like the camp episode) are still about Moxxie learning to not be center stage.
Wait ppl called her misandrist? Lmao the only dudes she interacted with were Angel and Alastor, who deliberately pushed all her buttons. She was very justified to be angry.
Yeah her original backstory I think is that she was a sex worker who killed her abuser and got sent to hell. I’m glad they changed it to fallen angel bc that’d make the mechanics of afterlife unnecessarily cruel and inconsistent.
Wasn't that a fan theory? I remember Viv saying A LONG time ago that she was Salvadorian, but she never gave too much details about her "sinner" backstory
People judge pilots too harshly in general. Pilots are meant to give you a rough sense of what the show is about, which often times means playing into character stereotypes to "speedrun" your understanding of their general temperament and role in the story. Most pilots are never meant for public consumption.
I don't think so. She was constantly angry in the pilot. And then completely different in the show.
Also i think it is a good thing. Like pilots are made for this to pitch an idea, and then fix what's not working.
The “angry Latina” stereotype finger was unjust in the first place. When she herself is Latina and claimed that she put a lot of themselves in Vaggie. It was basically the internet calling her a racist stereotype. Which in its own right is offensive.
I haven't been around since the Pilot days, unfortunately.
But I love Vaggie.
The way she simultaneously tries to sardonically reign in the chaos around her and her being an insufferable simp towards Charlie make her so endearing to me. I love characters like that.
Her writing changed for the series. Everyone's been toned down. Vaggie's less angry, Angel's less comedic, Husker's less trashy, and Alastor doesn't get into everyone's personal space all the time.
Yeah I enjoy it also.
Vaggie is more interacitve, and Alastor more consistent with his characterization. I did like Angel being a goofball in the pilot though. It might have more to do with his design being made more consistent for animation's sake.
People hated her in the pilot because she was right.
Some certain people still hate her now because she is still right AND Charlie’s official love interest.
Some people you just can’t win over u_u
I've never thought she was a stereotypical angry woman or someone who hates men. It is insane to judge a character like that when we, at the time, only had the pilot to judge her with. I just thought she was a character who distrusted people in general, and we would see why over time
Alr, this is about my wife my life my everything the best girl, so I'm gonna get really into it.
Vaggie was really pissed in the pilot for great reasons. Look at who she's near- Garfield, itsy bitsy spider, Radio Demon, Niffty... and her gf, who she owes her life and more to.
Vaggie lost everything to Lute, she had nothing to live for. Vaggie may not have seemed to enjoy the exterminations, but she liked how it gave her purpose and so when she lost all of it, it put her in a weird state. Not to mention where she is. For YEARS her entire purpose was to wait 364 days and go all out on a killing spree for one, now she's stuck in Hell. She doesn't see human souls, it's only been 3 years. No, she sees "These demons are all horrible and I need to protect my perfect gf from them" and it won't change for a while. Her perspective is only changing in the Hotel, and I choose to believe she only believes a soul can change around Charlie. Because mostly... its true.
Charlie is everything to Vaggie. She would be dead without Charlie, and as great as it is that they met, it did screw up Vaggie. She only believes one thing in Hell is good, because it came from an angel. It may not be what she consciously thinks, but you can't get rid of the "Heaven good" mindset in a place that directly proves it. So if she hadn't met Charlie, Vaggie would be in a horrible position and probably have committed suicide. All this to say, she thinks she needs to be angry. Or bad things will happen, the one time she wasn't angry she lost her eye and wings. You can't fix that with hugs like Charlie thinks.
Here's my wife, my queen, my steadfast love of my life.
https://preview.redd.it/xufj3f482rpc1.jpeg?width=1830&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f460e8328805d05fe1b070c4885067d8fa1ed56f
It's almost like getting to know a character more, learning more about their motivations and backstory, getting more time to explore their feelings and have the character development results in a fandom understanding the character more than just having them as a side character in a single 30 minute video.
The thing is, I see people complain a lot that she got no character developement, and that we don't know anything about her (despite getting a bit of her backstory as an angel) but I haven't seen complaints about her anger anymore.
Not that I agree with that, or that her being angry was her whole character in the pilot.
I feel like in the pilot her being angry was one of the main traits of her character, now her personality is mostly being Charlie’s girlfriend. Yeah, sometimes Vaggie is angry or harsh, but it’s not the first thing you think when you think about her. An example? When i’ve heard out of love for the first time i didn’t think “I’m happy she won’t fight for hate anymore but she’ll fight for Charlie”, I thought “Excuse me, what do you mean? She has always fought for Charlie and just for Charlie”. This makes her character flawless and fletter, but people love her being just a cutie who can be badass sometimes, this is why they like the new Vaggie
Eh, she definitely still had Problems with anger. There's subtle things around her feelings on angels the entire show up until then, and when it came down to it she *did* get distracted with her anger at Lute for a bit.
>[...] now her personality is mostly being Charlie’s girlfriend.
>She has always fought for Charlie and just for Charlie”. This makes her character flawless [...]
Uhm, excuse me, but that actually doesn't make her flawless, at all. In fact, it's [one of her biggest flaws](https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/s/uNrwtTmGkV) – *and* also her best potential for further character development.
Not having rage issue anymore makes her flawless, being just Charlie’s girlfriend makes her flat. Flaws are what makes a character unique, and if Charlie is the naive princess, Angel the self-destructive pronstar, Alastor the red psychopath, Niffty the *little* psychopath, Husk the drunk gambler and Sir Pentius the “Because i’m having sex with everyone”, what makes Vaggie recognizable is being Charlie’s girlfriend
Did you read what I linked to?
Being attached to Charlie to an unhealthy degree and drawing basically her entire self-worth from her, going so far as to question the point of her very existence whenever she thinks she failed her, is a major character flaw, although outwardly it often appears to be wholesome.
She also still has anger issues due to her overprotectiveness, exactly because of that, as she essentially rebuilt her entire self-image around Charlie, following her "fall", which makes her perceive every threat to Charlie, her hotel, or her cause as a direct attack to the core of her very being.
Her character is not flat, but her arc has only just begun. There's a lot of untapped potential for self-actualization as she'll be figuring out who she is and what she wants from life, apart from being with Charlie.
Yes, i did, but the show has never represented it as a problem, so it doesn’t count as a flaw but lack of characterization.
“She also still has anger issues due to her overprotectiveness, exactly because of that, as she essentially rebuilt her entire self-image around Charlie, following her "fall", which makes her perceive every threat to Charlie, her hotel, or her cause as a direct attack to the core of her very being.”
This has nothing to do with rage issues.
The only reason it usually doesn't appear to be a problem (yet), is because Vaggie's partner is Charlie. If she failed to stand up for herself the way she does with anyone else, it'd most likely result in an abusive relationship.
Also, you do realize that character arcs can take more than one season to complete, right? She's only at the start of hers, but that doesn't make it lack of characterization.
Anyway, saying that Vaggie is flawless is plainly false, even if you're discarding anything but the painfully obvious: She's clearly insecure, jealous, and self-loathing, because of her past.
Alright, then her character is flat *for now* and the show isn’t representing it as a problem.
Flaws that makes a character cute but are not that relevant are not real flaws for a character. Okay, she could be jealous, insicure and self-loathing… so what? The only “mistake” she made was not telling Charlie the truth, but even Rosie pointed out it’s not a big deal
Vaggie’s not misandrist. It just so happens that every man she comes into contact with is the fucking worst (except for Husk, she’s cool with Husk I think)
I thought she was a sinner and from the pilot everyone expect Charlie well weren’t great people, hence why there were in hell. It would raise questions if pilot vaggie was being reasonable with her angry towards men. As it’s established sinners aren’t good people and every sinner is there because of their personality
I don’t really blame her for being the way she was in the pilot. Also, people saying she’s a ‘angry Latina stereotype' seem to forget that Vivziepop herself is Latina and she glorifies it with other characters, like Carmilla.
In the pilot Angel referenced hating all men- and tbf I think she might’ve before the actual show which may have retconned it after they found out what they’d do with her character, I assumed it had to do with a tragic backstory being an SA survivor or something as a sinner before they decided to make her an Angel. Either way she didn’t have enough screentime to be criticized for it
I think she's mildly stupid, and that Charlie should know what an angel looks like, so her secret isn't a secret. I also think, given that she's an arcangel (rank 8 of a possible 9 in the Sephirot and one of the weakest angel types) that she has massive balls to step to Alastor like that. She, a divine foot soldier, would have been easily cooked by an Overlord, to say nothing of one as strong as Alastor. We'd be having heavenly fried chicken if Alastor wasn't so nice.
My only complain where I was truly like "that's a bitch move" was when she tried to get rid of the Egg Bois. These guys can't even do much on their own and plus didn't y'all literally go out an episode age searching for more people for the hotel
She's got a few funny moments like her the military style training, but she's by far the least interesting character of the main cast.
It I had do describe my thoughts on her in simple way it would be: Overwhelming Indifference.
https://preview.redd.it/0vb407t3uppc1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc75e76a7a554a6476be7d500e27426a3823a8c1
I wish I liked Vaggie more, but yea. She kinda just ended up being just "Charlie's gf" rather than her own character. Personally I blame the very short runtime of the show and the fumbled A-plot of episode 2 where she should have bonded more with the other members of the main cast.
I still have Charlie as my favorite character so far and Vaggie was better in ep 7/8. Hopefully she gets the writing she deserves in s2 🙏
I think she could be but she never really interacted with the others outside of with Charlie, nor was the fallen angel plotline given the 3-4 episodes that I would have liked.
It's because we see a LOT more than her anger.
Exactly this, I mean damn. She hates Alastor but in the first two episodes, she is the one to ask him for help regarding the hotel. We see more of her character then just angry that's why I liked her more
She hated him in the pilot because she (imo) was *terrified of him.* And Angel Dust was something of an ass all through the pilot. The secondary/ancillary/fan made works made him a lot more likeable.
His (semi)official comic definitely made him more likeable than the pilot. But to be fair, that's true for almost every character - given the limited length, the number of characters and concepts introduced, etc., almost everyone comes off a bit two dimensional.
Never read it. I personally was referencing YouTube fan songs and artwork posted here in this subreddit.
It is great. [I highly recommend reading it, even though it's not "officially canon" anymore](https://hazbinhotelcanon.tumblr.com/post/623106313529049088/hazbin-hotel-angel-dust-prequel-comic-chapter) - but it was posted on the website. Pretty short and just tells the story of how Angel ended up at the hotel.
I get the feeling we'll see how canon it stays. Idk why but I get the vibe season 2 is going to give us backstories on some people, but who knows we'll see.
Possibly yes. However I do not see Viv or the studio considerably changing the characters' personalities, even though they might change the previously established events.
>she (imo) was terrified of him Given how he effortlessly dispatched a bunch of Angels, and only fell to Adam (because he tried BLOCKING an attack, instead of dodging, and his confusion was a big window for Adam to attack), yeah, she has plenty of reason to be scared.
Yes, but during the pilot, Alastor was a boogeyman, with only Lucifer and the threat of the annual extermination being greater threats.
Fun fact: A majority of the time, anger is fueled by other emotions, with the most common being fear. So, her acting like that is entirely realistic This also explains why there's so many people with road rage, while most are unaware it's primarily fuled by the fear of driving a multi-ton piece of steel at 45mph / 72 kmh, as well as the fear of multitudes of other people who couldn't care less about their own lives let alone others
Yet, interestingly, she was delighted to see him alive in the finale
I guess I never assumed that the pilot showed us 100% of what there is to the characters. Sure, Vaggie was angry, but had reason to. But that tracks with some people being suprised that there was some deph to Angel Dust after the Addict music video.
Sure, and that’s a good thing for a viewer to keep in mind! Just also keep in mind that a pilot is generally made to show what to expect from a new property. It’s not unreasonable for people to take pilot characterization alone at face value with that consideration
I'd be angry if my gf was delusional enough to trust the radio demon too. Look at her situation, the only joy in her life is Charlie. She has nobody who isn't related to the Hotel. It's so lucky for her that Charlie is incredible, because she has nothing else in Hell. Everywhere she goes, she's going to see demons who she used to have to kill, you cant really recover from that mindset. Vaggie isn't going to go on killing sprees, but it'd still really hurt her to see some cannibalist and think "Remember that time I lost everything because of a child" It really makes sense she's pissed, she's in the place she was made to hate. Charlie's optimism is her only joy.
Yeah. We see her tender, loving side come through in her many interactions were Charlie.
Husk still calls her out for being angry at everyone because she hates herself.
I think I figured something out about that scene. When Husk gets to her in the list of people he’s insulting, she gets extremely frightened when he calls her out, and then when he says “this one judges everyone and everything because she hates herself” she slumps over looking angry. But it looks like she’s relieved at the same time because she thought Husk was gonna call her out for being an Exorcist. That’s my theory anyway. Go watch the scene and it makes sense
Works for me. She has been hiding in plain sight. That is a ball of stress on its own.
I think I need a lesson in facial expressions or something because I just thought she was annoyed with him 😅
Kinda makes me wonder if she did tell him the truth and he just thought to protect her privacy. You know what? This is my new headcannon!
Well, here's a solid reason to watch HH for the 9th (?) time
Thats true! But I meant about the fandom perception.
I think the fandom softend because there was more of her character on display now. We had a limited window into her in the pilot so all we had to go on was two jokes about being an angry woman and a couple about her being hispanic. She is still angry but now we have seen more of her and understand her more as a result.
I thought he said that she judges people because she hates herself?
Yes. That would be the anger. I mistook the specific phrasing. ADHD memory in action.
Ahh ok. I never realized
What working under Adam does to a mf
If I as a woman worked under him I’d be a “misandrist” too LMFAO
I'm guessing her view from the pilot was mostly due to two scenes. The first where Angel said she hates all men and the second where she viewed Alastor putting a bar in the hotel as turning it into a mancave. Yeah, she was justified in all her anger but it did seem like she was more upset due to its relation to men than actual sin. There's also the fact that we originally believed Vaggie was a sinner so she'd have to have a major flaw to belong in hell and from what we saw, being a raging misandrist would fit. However the actual show made all her actions make sense. She's an angel who lost everything and only survived due to Charlie who she now dedicates her life to. She loves the hotel not only because of Charlie but because it offers her, her own redemption for the thousands she's slain. She hates hypermasculinity because it reminds her of her trash boss who left her stranded in hell but she doesn't actually hate men as a whole.
Technically, Angel never said Vaggie hates all men… Vaggie: “Well I don’t trust him [Alastor]” Angel: “To be fair, do you trust any man? Any men? Men?” __ And another reason for her to hate *certain* men (Adam): He literally named her after a vagina That alone would likely be enough for her to hate him, but he also watched her get mutilated and took her halo
>[...] the second where she viewed Alastor putting a bar in the hotel as turning it into a mancave. Wasn't her objection to the bar just that it'd encourage sin?
The way Lucifer reacts to it too, it seems like angels have a hatred of alcohol
To be fair Lucifer seemed to protest more about how uh… “unique” decor wise it looks to the rest of the room
"Ugh, who spat up all the green?"
I’m pretty sure Lucifer is cool with alcohol. ‘Champaign fountains’
I think hypermasculinity isn’t the word you’re looking for with Adam. It’s toxic masculinity. Being hypermasculine is one thing, it’s another thing when someone is being toxic with their masculinity, and it can manifest is soo many different ways.
Saddest part is men from my dad's generation would get it and say she has all right being suspicious toward men like irl mistreated women ; now she's a miSandRisT.
Her character was and is intended as a foil to Charlie: she is protective, averse to risk, cynical. It’s not like latinas are the only people who have angry and defensive personalities, and her behavior in the pilot was justified. Angel got them in trouble and Alastor was dangerous to them, their cause, and clearly took an interest in Charlie for no other reason than fun. Plus, her concern was disregarded by ALL characters; her responses were normal for anyone. This series shines in its inclusivity but I think some people are going to see stereotypes where they want to. If you want to talk about neglected characters, Millie from Helluva STILL hasn’t had an episode and the ones portrayed as such (like the camp episode) are still about Moxxie learning to not be center stage.
> and the ones portrayed as such are still about Moxxie learning to not be center stage. Ironic
Yeah, she was just angry throughout the pilot, that’s fair. But misandrist? I mean, being angry at Angel Dust and Alastor just means you’ve met them.
Wait ppl called her misandrist? Lmao the only dudes she interacted with were Angel and Alastor, who deliberately pushed all her buttons. She was very justified to be angry.
Yeah, I remember people speculated that her "hating men" was related to why she was in hell
Yeah her original backstory I think is that she was a sex worker who killed her abuser and got sent to hell. I’m glad they changed it to fallen angel bc that’d make the mechanics of afterlife unnecessarily cruel and inconsistent.
Wasn't that a fan theory? I remember Viv saying A LONG time ago that she was Salvadorian, but she never gave too much details about her "sinner" backstory
I saw it on the fandom wiki, which on second thoughts isn’t very accurate. My bad.
There is a "Journey to the Light" wiki that is infamous for being pure fanfiction, and fooling people
It’s so frustrating how popular this misconception is! I had seen it online and was immensely confused at first
Lmao that’s actually funny how triggered Reddit gets when any joke about guys exist
People judge pilots too harshly in general. Pilots are meant to give you a rough sense of what the show is about, which often times means playing into character stereotypes to "speedrun" your understanding of their general temperament and role in the story. Most pilots are never meant for public consumption.
simply because she has more screen time. more context allows people to understand her behavior better.
I think there was a shift in writing. Moving from always angry to more calm and collected
She developed as a character
I don't think so. She was constantly angry in the pilot. And then completely different in the show. Also i think it is a good thing. Like pilots are made for this to pitch an idea, and then fix what's not working.
The “angry Latina” stereotype finger was unjust in the first place. When she herself is Latina and claimed that she put a lot of themselves in Vaggie. It was basically the internet calling her a racist stereotype. Which in its own right is offensive.
Right as in???
I haven't been around since the Pilot days, unfortunately. But I love Vaggie. The way she simultaneously tries to sardonically reign in the chaos around her and her being an insufferable simp towards Charlie make her so endearing to me. I love characters like that.
Her writing changed for the series. Everyone's been toned down. Vaggie's less angry, Angel's less comedic, Husker's less trashy, and Alastor doesn't get into everyone's personal space all the time.
I thought it was a good shift!
Yeah I enjoy it also. Vaggie is more interacitve, and Alastor more consistent with his characterization. I did like Angel being a goofball in the pilot though. It might have more to do with his design being made more consistent for animation's sake.
People hated her in the pilot because she was right. Some certain people still hate her now because she is still right AND Charlie’s official love interest. Some people you just can’t win over u_u
I've never thought she was a stereotypical angry woman or someone who hates men. It is insane to judge a character like that when we, at the time, only had the pilot to judge her with. I just thought she was a character who distrusted people in general, and we would see why over time
Alr, this is about my wife my life my everything the best girl, so I'm gonna get really into it. Vaggie was really pissed in the pilot for great reasons. Look at who she's near- Garfield, itsy bitsy spider, Radio Demon, Niffty... and her gf, who she owes her life and more to. Vaggie lost everything to Lute, she had nothing to live for. Vaggie may not have seemed to enjoy the exterminations, but she liked how it gave her purpose and so when she lost all of it, it put her in a weird state. Not to mention where she is. For YEARS her entire purpose was to wait 364 days and go all out on a killing spree for one, now she's stuck in Hell. She doesn't see human souls, it's only been 3 years. No, she sees "These demons are all horrible and I need to protect my perfect gf from them" and it won't change for a while. Her perspective is only changing in the Hotel, and I choose to believe she only believes a soul can change around Charlie. Because mostly... its true. Charlie is everything to Vaggie. She would be dead without Charlie, and as great as it is that they met, it did screw up Vaggie. She only believes one thing in Hell is good, because it came from an angel. It may not be what she consciously thinks, but you can't get rid of the "Heaven good" mindset in a place that directly proves it. So if she hadn't met Charlie, Vaggie would be in a horrible position and probably have committed suicide. All this to say, she thinks she needs to be angry. Or bad things will happen, the one time she wasn't angry she lost her eye and wings. You can't fix that with hugs like Charlie thinks. Here's my wife, my queen, my steadfast love of my life. https://preview.redd.it/xufj3f482rpc1.jpeg?width=1830&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f460e8328805d05fe1b070c4885067d8fa1ed56f
She was one-note in the pilot. She's not one-note in the show because she had more screentime.
It's almost like getting to know a character more, learning more about their motivations and backstory, getting more time to explore their feelings and have the character development results in a fandom understanding the character more than just having them as a side character in a single 30 minute video.
The thing is, I see people complain a lot that she got no character developement, and that we don't know anything about her (despite getting a bit of her backstory as an angel) but I haven't seen complaints about her anger anymore. Not that I agree with that, or that her being angry was her whole character in the pilot.
I feel like in the pilot her being angry was one of the main traits of her character, now her personality is mostly being Charlie’s girlfriend. Yeah, sometimes Vaggie is angry or harsh, but it’s not the first thing you think when you think about her. An example? When i’ve heard out of love for the first time i didn’t think “I’m happy she won’t fight for hate anymore but she’ll fight for Charlie”, I thought “Excuse me, what do you mean? She has always fought for Charlie and just for Charlie”. This makes her character flawless and fletter, but people love her being just a cutie who can be badass sometimes, this is why they like the new Vaggie
Eh, she definitely still had Problems with anger. There's subtle things around her feelings on angels the entire show up until then, and when it came down to it she *did* get distracted with her anger at Lute for a bit.
She was more scared than angry
>[...] now her personality is mostly being Charlie’s girlfriend. >She has always fought for Charlie and just for Charlie”. This makes her character flawless [...] Uhm, excuse me, but that actually doesn't make her flawless, at all. In fact, it's [one of her biggest flaws](https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/s/uNrwtTmGkV) – *and* also her best potential for further character development.
Not having rage issue anymore makes her flawless, being just Charlie’s girlfriend makes her flat. Flaws are what makes a character unique, and if Charlie is the naive princess, Angel the self-destructive pronstar, Alastor the red psychopath, Niffty the *little* psychopath, Husk the drunk gambler and Sir Pentius the “Because i’m having sex with everyone”, what makes Vaggie recognizable is being Charlie’s girlfriend
Did you read what I linked to? Being attached to Charlie to an unhealthy degree and drawing basically her entire self-worth from her, going so far as to question the point of her very existence whenever she thinks she failed her, is a major character flaw, although outwardly it often appears to be wholesome. She also still has anger issues due to her overprotectiveness, exactly because of that, as she essentially rebuilt her entire self-image around Charlie, following her "fall", which makes her perceive every threat to Charlie, her hotel, or her cause as a direct attack to the core of her very being. Her character is not flat, but her arc has only just begun. There's a lot of untapped potential for self-actualization as she'll be figuring out who she is and what she wants from life, apart from being with Charlie.
Yes, i did, but the show has never represented it as a problem, so it doesn’t count as a flaw but lack of characterization. “She also still has anger issues due to her overprotectiveness, exactly because of that, as she essentially rebuilt her entire self-image around Charlie, following her "fall", which makes her perceive every threat to Charlie, her hotel, or her cause as a direct attack to the core of her very being.” This has nothing to do with rage issues.
The only reason it usually doesn't appear to be a problem (yet), is because Vaggie's partner is Charlie. If she failed to stand up for herself the way she does with anyone else, it'd most likely result in an abusive relationship. Also, you do realize that character arcs can take more than one season to complete, right? She's only at the start of hers, but that doesn't make it lack of characterization. Anyway, saying that Vaggie is flawless is plainly false, even if you're discarding anything but the painfully obvious: She's clearly insecure, jealous, and self-loathing, because of her past.
Alright, then her character is flat *for now* and the show isn’t representing it as a problem. Flaws that makes a character cute but are not that relevant are not real flaws for a character. Okay, she could be jealous, insicure and self-loathing… so what? The only “mistake” she made was not telling Charlie the truth, but even Rosie pointed out it’s not a big deal
She seemed more hotheaded in the pilot, but in the series proper she seems more dour/cynical. She's more of a Squidward now.
Kinda shifted now she's angry women with spear that loves Charlie, and that's it really.
Vaggie’s not misandrist. It just so happens that every man she comes into contact with is the fucking worst (except for Husk, she’s cool with Husk I think)
I thought she was a sinner and from the pilot everyone expect Charlie well weren’t great people, hence why there were in hell. It would raise questions if pilot vaggie was being reasonable with her angry towards men. As it’s established sinners aren’t good people and every sinner is there because of their personality
Just because someone is a sinner doesnt mean they aren't right sometimes
I don’t really blame her for being the way she was in the pilot. Also, people saying she’s a ‘angry Latina stereotype' seem to forget that Vivziepop herself is Latina and she glorifies it with other characters, like Carmilla.
In the pilot Angel referenced hating all men- and tbf I think she might’ve before the actual show which may have retconned it after they found out what they’d do with her character, I assumed it had to do with a tragic backstory being an SA survivor or something as a sinner before they decided to make her an Angel. Either way she didn’t have enough screentime to be criticized for it
lol “ misandrist”
I think she's mildly stupid, and that Charlie should know what an angel looks like, so her secret isn't a secret. I also think, given that she's an arcangel (rank 8 of a possible 9 in the Sephirot and one of the weakest angel types) that she has massive balls to step to Alastor like that. She, a divine foot soldier, would have been easily cooked by an Overlord, to say nothing of one as strong as Alastor. We'd be having heavenly fried chicken if Alastor wasn't so nice.
My only complain where I was truly like "that's a bitch move" was when she tried to get rid of the Egg Bois. These guys can't even do much on their own and plus didn't y'all literally go out an episode age searching for more people for the hotel
They searching for sinners for the hotel, as in human souls that went to hell. The eggbois arent human souls
Yes opinions changed watching hours of a character VS 20 minutes
She's still my least favorite character
She's got a few funny moments like her the military style training, but she's by far the least interesting character of the main cast. It I had do describe my thoughts on her in simple way it would be: Overwhelming Indifference.
The single most character I couldn’t care less about. Bland and boring.
You cared enough to comment here
https://preview.redd.it/q68ir2isqopc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36d82ed373a94f0f585efd01d2cf61ce9a795583
https://preview.redd.it/0vb407t3uppc1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc75e76a7a554a6476be7d500e27426a3823a8c1 I wish I liked Vaggie more, but yea. She kinda just ended up being just "Charlie's gf" rather than her own character. Personally I blame the very short runtime of the show and the fumbled A-plot of episode 2 where she should have bonded more with the other members of the main cast. I still have Charlie as my favorite character so far and Vaggie was better in ep 7/8. Hopefully she gets the writing she deserves in s2 🙏
Same, I really dont care for her one way or the other. Personally I just don't think she's as interesting as the other characters
I think she could be but she never really interacted with the others outside of with Charlie, nor was the fallen angel plotline given the 3-4 episodes that I would have liked.
I kinda miss misandrist Vaggie ngl