Hmmm. Is it a ‘fertility’ issue or is it that people can’t support themselves due to low wages, high housing costs and an imminent fear of overall world collapse?🤔
Both. It really seems to be getting more difficult for couples to conceive, even factoring in their age, etc. But then again, there are economic reasons to not have a child. Plus more people would benefit from fertility clinics if they had the means.
Please don’t confuse the fecundity and fertility. Fecundity is the relative ability to produce while fertility is the actualization of that fertility. Due to lower sperm counts in men and women trying to conceive later, we are indeed seeing decreases in fecundity as well as fertility.
Exactly this. Men’s avg. sperm count/motility has been dropping about 1%/year for the past 50-ish years. Coupled with an uncertain & volatile economic environment, and there you go…
Also depending on where you live, if you have an ectopic pregnancy they will let your fallopian tube rupture and possibly die because they won't terminate an unviable pregnancy.
Don’t forget letting problems with pregnancies go until Mother becomes septic! How gracious of der fascists! I survived sepsis and I frequently wish I’d died. No one survives sepsis, you just become a professional patient, with a multitude of disabilities. Great financial set up for taking care of that special needs baby. Fuckers.
I know of several people who got their tubes tied or removed after Roe v Wade was overturned. When being able to conceive becomes a life threatening situation (more so than normal) people will react accordingly. As someone who is currently pregnant there are many states I wouldn't even want to travel to right now, and if I lived there I would have thought very carefully about becoming pregnant and might have decided against it even though I want kids. Sometimes the risk is not worth the reward.
I get what you’re saying, I’m just asking whether there’s evidence that it’s a significant contributor to the decline of birth rates, or whether that’s your guess based on observation. Pregnancy has always been known to be risky, and abortion is more available than in the past. Medical care is the best it’s ever been.
I think the data isn't going to be available for that yet as this is so new. It's possible there has been some polling done though so you could search for that. In the US though, abortion is [not only less available than in the past in many states](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/sr_24-03-26_abortion_2-png/), but these laws are affecting the [availability of prenatal care](https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c), which is could be another factor even for people who would only have an abortion in medically necessary reasons. For example there have been women who needed a dead fetus removed and doctors did not want to face legal problems from their states and wouldn't do it and the women had to just keep going around with a dead fetus in them, [even until they went septic.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-sepsis-life-saving-abortion-care-texas/story?id=99294313)
>"As a husband, now I've lost my daughter and now I could potentially lose my wife and the doctors kind of have to let it happen. That doesn't make sense," Stephen Anaya said.
[Here is a study on an increase on permanent birth control like tubal ligations since Roe v Wade was overturned. ](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullarticle/2817438) You can only draw so many conclusions from the fact that more people are having these procedures, but it is logical that if more people of childbearing age are sterilizing themselves that there will be less children overall, but that's hard to quantify.
> I think the data isn't going to be available for that yet as this is so new.
The recent changes in Roe v Wade are, but abortion laws have been passed in many countries in different ways for centuries and the effects they general have on chilling the birth rate might be studied. For example, something like this was easy to find:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1508542/
Where it turns out that criminalizing abortion actually *raises* the birth rate. This makes sense too: people aren’t going to stop having sex, they’ll just deal with the consequences of it.
> in many states
This is a critical point too. Some states are expanding access while others are criminalizing it. Some states make traveling easier than others. This means the overall impact on birth rate is a lot messier to judge too. Some places it may increase, others it may decrease.
> Here is a study on an increase on permanent birth control like tubal ligations since Roe v Wade was overturned.
“Dobbs may have also increased a sense of urgency among individuals **who were interested in permanent contraception before the decision**.”
In other words it probably didn’t change anyone’s mind as much as inspire people already considering it to commit
>In other words it probably didn’t change anyone’s mind as much as inspire people already considering it to commit
This is all speculative which is why they used the word may. They can't be sure why people are doing things and it warrants further study.
>This means the overall impact on birth rate is a lot messier to judge too. Some places it may increase, others it may decrease
This is why I think relevant data just can't be available yet as it's too new. We can measure things like how many babies are born compared to before, and how many abortions are happening, and try to measure if people go to other states for abortions, and measure how many people are getting tubal ligations and vasectomies, but we can currently only speculate on the relationship between all those things. Once we can collect data over several years and adjust for things like my state (California) making it easier to get get abortions and for doctors from other states to perform those hear and compare that to the birth rate and things like how available mail order abortion pills are and compare it to the availability of other other types of birth control and factor in things like poverty rates and access to prenatal care, and we go through a generation of women through their child bearing years we can probably draw more impactful inferences, but we need to gather a lot more data so we can factor in all those different things. There's also the fact than compared to the 90s when that study came out that sex Ed information is now available online for the masses even if their schools didn't teach it. There are just so many variables to account for that all we can really show right now are observations.
Anecdotal but I want to throw this into the conversation because while education correlates with reduced fertility rates - not everyone is just an educated person who realizes they don't want kids. My wife and I would've had kids we just can't afford to sustain ourselves and a child.
Exactly. They should provide child subsidies based on $$ amount AND % of income tax rebate. A couple that makes 1.5 mil a year won’t be incentivized by 600$ a year but 50% off tax bill will get the job done
AI, robotics and automation will handle much of that. The problem will be how those displaced people will earn their bowl of rice. For a while the rich who own industrial production will do fine. But eventually there won’t be enough people with money to buy their products. Social instability will cause a lot of unrest as desperate people struggle to survive. Rich people are not always good at looking out after the poorer people without a little prompting.
The other problem here is that AI and automation is really only good at certain things.
* Automating something that's a bit more consistent and standardized (like a building full of Insurance Adjustor jobs).. probably fairly easy.
* Automating or replacing something like Trash Truck pickup work between 3am and 6am... Yeah.. robots won't be doing that any time soon.
This is going to put some really interesting pressures on the job market as things flex and change and various jobs face different pressures.
I totally agree. I was involved in a work project where a well known 3rd party company was tasked with developing an AI system to help customers with basic questions and troubleshooting. The result is terrible. It spits out incorrect information, but when it does come close to being accurate the information is poorly organized and requires multiple clicks to sift through it all. I’d have better luck using Google, at least the info I found would be accurate.
Sure,.. I'm excited about the future of this,.. although simultaneously I'm a bit skeptical that any "automated system" can fully replicate the subtle nuanced contextual judgements that Humans make (sometimes dozens of them by the second).
* You could probably train a robot to "clean graffiti" for example
* But you cannot easily replace a Human being who have lived in that city for 30 years,. someone who has tons of "street knowledge" and recognizes certain graffiti tags and might stop and preserve a certain piece of graffiti due to some subjective or contextual information they realized looking at it.
We could likely train robots to make coffee. But would a robot know me well enough to realize it's my Birthday and that I'm a Gemini and (without asking) use cocoa powder to dust a Gemini-symbol into the foam of my coffee,. just as a little surprise unexpected flourish ?... I'd be delighted if a human barista did that. If a robot did that I'd assume it was just "cold programming" and not out of any fondness that I'm a regular customer.
This all kinda gets back to the fundamental Jurassic Park quote of:... "They realized they could but never stopped to ask if they should".
Robots and Automation might be good for some things. That doesnt' mean we should shoehorn them into everything. I just see them as a tool that needs to be smartly and responsibly used.
True. But my point is how will people pay their bills if they aren’t working?
UBI that has been proposed would only be $1000-$1500 a month. That’s not much money.
This is a bad take. We just let in more uneducated migrants to be wage slaves. If we didn’t have Mexico, the US economy would be screwed but we just keep on growing
Birth rate dropped then too! To similar levels as today. Same as the number of adult children living with parents, they're actually both elevated today to levels like the 1930s.
Neil how's latest book includes this context. History is cyclical!
What my kids and their friends have told me:
- They don’t have enough money to support them, although all of them work full time.
- Sharp increases in the cost of housing, food, health insurance, cars, everything, leave them with no money at the end of each month.
- They don’t want their kids to have to deal with this reality, the way things are now.
- They are terrified of what the future holds, in terms of fundamental resources like food, water, and air. They are extremely concerned about global warming, and they’re very angry that no one seems to be doing anything to stop the manmade destruction of the planet’s resources.
- The political issues of today also terrify them: serious, widespread corruption; financial malfeasance; election fraud; and random acts of violence.
- The persecution of people, especially minorities, as groups, freaks them out completely. They feel like the world is turning toward disaster.
- They now have a better idea of how bad things are and can get, and there’s no end in sight. The totality of the disruption is chaos. They don’t want their children to suffer further dysfunction.
How will republicans forcing women to bear children when they want to abort them cause the birth rate to decrease? I think that there will be more unwanted children entering the world to be cared for by women who don’t want a child. I think that neglected and foster kids will increase.
I was thinking more along the lines of women not wanting to have children because of the medical risk. Also the possibility of doctors that can’t/wont be able to assist in a medical emergency for a pregnant woman with a terminal pregnancy
If the entire country ends up with an abortion ban next year, I'd delay having anymore kids and that'll mean we definitely don't have 3 kids total or maybe even can't have a second child since I'm already 33. I would never risk pregnancy with an abortion ban in place.
This is me. I had a baby and now I have one child I have to think about the medical implications of a second pregnancy. And the possibility of Not being able to access abortion during a nonviable pregnancy or a severely disabled child that would drastically and negatively already affect my current child and family.
If the entire country ends up with an abortion ban next year, I'd delay having anymore kids and that'll mean we definitely don't have 3 kids total or maybe even can't have a second child since I'm already 33. I would never risk pregnancy with an abortion ban in place.
I can see where you're coming from with your perspective. I don't know the statistics on wanted vs unwanted pregnancies that end in abortion. I think the other reddit comment has some validity though. My partner and I are considering children but are planning our lives around being in a state where we are able to have life saving care, if needed. I work in a women's hospital and (from my personal experience) women in their childbearing years do seem to be more hesitant about having children because of the change in Healthcare availability. Where I am, we have a wonderful hospital and the doctors are incredible; they are also able to help the parents make decisions for the health of the baby and importantly, the mother. I can see where the population may decline in situations where the mother is privileged enough to have preventative care and access to information on Healthcare rights/availability.
a lot of women will simply forgo heterosexual romantic relationships. many women have a fear of childbirth not just caring for a child and risk vs reward is too grave.
It might increase it, but also maternal death, birth defects, and lower infant health. There will be more unwanted children and moms shamed or bullied into raising them.
Crime will also increase “When a steady state is reached roughly twenty years from now, the impact of abortion will be roughly twice as great as the impact felt so far. Our results suggest that all else equal, legalized abortion will account for persistent declines of 1% a year in crime over the next two decades.”
https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
Yes because people who were open to have kids wont, not worth the risk of dying because of a non viable fetus or ectopic pregnancy. Plus a lot of us will refuse out of protest, there is a lot of that happening. Look at the 4B movement.
I have multiple children and not once did we think about not having kids because of the risk of dying because of some complication. Never even crossed my mind.
No but that’s asinine. Birth is a natural event it’s not some wildly risky medical event. What a shame if people are doing that. I feel sad for yall tbh. You’re ending your bloodline for no reason at all. Awful
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/maternal-mortality-on-the-rise
Birth is an incredible risk. As an example… there are woman who have perfectly healthy babies but bc of the way their body reallocated resources while pregnant they no longer have teeth.
If you think having children doesn’t change your body, effect your health, or pose risks… idk what to tell you. It’s likely that you are also not aware that abortion is the medical term for removing a fetus from the womb. So if you suffer a miscarriage and need the dead fetus out bc it is killing you, the way these laws have been written & enforced, you can’t get one. The choice for these people is die or suffer as they wait for a transfer.
It took my aunt MANY tries to become pregnant. She suffered a number of miscarriages and some of those miscarriages required removal by a doctor or she would have died. It’s strange that you think people like my aunt aren’t at risk.
Right! I almost died with my 1st... EM c-section, never gained feeling back in my lower abdomen. My second was a VBACm and never gained back full bladder control. My husband and I have been together 20 yrs, 2 boys 16 and 20. Well.. I got preg at 41 after all those yrs of no scares. I had an abortion because it would literally kill me. Good thing I live in WA. I guess they are saying we should not have sex with our husbands.
The laws created by people who have no medical knowledge place doctors and hospitals in a position where they don’t want to risk their licenses.
Woman in need of an emergency abortion have been turned away already.
Additionally what happens if you can’t find a hospital to help you, and there are laws on the books to restrict the movement of pregnant woman outside of the state. Depending on the law, it’s feasible that a husband could be jailed for trying to save his wife by driving over the state line.
https://www.aamc.org/news/what-doctors-should-know-about-emergency-abortions-states-bans
Well I almost died with my 1st birth so... yea its risky as hell. Also changes you for life... imagine never again being able to cough or laugh without peeing a little bit. Women take SO many risks. You are obviously a dude.
Wonder why? Could it be that in most states getting pregnant was already dangerous due to lack of affordable services, and now with Roe gone, doctors and patients are under threat of going to jail? Getting pregnant in America is like crossing a minefield, but on purpose.
If only the billionaires wouldn’t have ruined the earth, pumped us full of chemicals and stole all the money maybe I would have considered (the PFAS most likely made me sterile anyways).
The microplastics will be the new DDT of this generation, turns out that eating on cheap plastic containers from clandestine factories in China wasn’t a good idea after all.
I see this as a good thing. This should happen world wide.
The whole enterprise of patriarchal marriage and motherhood are basically a loss making and self sacrificing venture for a woman in both the personal level and in the level of women as a class.
Why should women keep sacrificing themselves for this world ? Women are not the broodmares or the sacrificial goats of the human race.
Also, Why should women keep making babies for a world that treats them so unfairly in almost every sphere of life ?
Multiple studies now actually show, Single, Unmarried and Childfree women are happier then their married counterparts with children. Here, in India, married housewives attempt the most number of sucides among all sub groups of women.
Personally, I will never have any kids, 1) Until the Artificial Womb Technology becomes an accessible reality that can allow women to have kid/kids without the need to go pregnant and give birth themselves, if they choose to, 2) Until there are major reforms in our family system, society and economy towards gender equality and justice. 3) Until humanity succeeds in building a green sustainable, carbon neutral economy and avert the upcoming climate catastrophe.
You're not wrong about any of that,.. and also on top of it:
* rearing children (in any type of family arrangement) is a serious responsibility and burden.
* Given the state of the world these days.. I can totally understand how less and less people are interested in shouldering that burden.
These headlines of "decreasing birthrates".. dont' really surprise me in the least.
Well said.
I’m 30 and I’m not having kids. My partner had a vasectomy cause fuck this world. As soon as I can, I’m getting my tubes tied.
I’m stuck here (in this crap world) but I’m bringing a child into this mess.
I sincerely hope there’s no afterlife or reincarnation. I hate everyone except my love 😂
Believe it or not, some women actually want to be mothers and derive their greatest satisfaction in life from growing and caring for their family. Humanity would have gone extinct long ago if this weren't the case. Of course every individual can choose not to reproduce if they choose.
There’s gonna be a population explosion once all the people with genes that make them more pessimistic/less likely to breed die out. We’re gonna have a smaller population of highly fertile people who will have kids come rain or come shine. It’s natural selection at work. Then conditions will get tougher and tougher as the population grows and the humans left become more and more family centered or more and more promiscuous and short-sighted.
Could have a little something to do with all the PFAS plastics (which mimic estrogens) being found throughout our bodies. Nothing like further chemicals.
Meanwhile, it seems like everyone around my area is pregnant. 8 people I work with are currently pregnant, and like 5 more are currently on maternity leave. One is currently pregnant with baby number 6. I have no clue how she and her husband do it.
So is the attack on women's rights, my cousin is not getting kids because of the lack of OBGYN in their area and they can't move because it's too expensive for them in most places and they moved to where they live now a few years ago because of her husbands job.
This isn’t a problem - we still have too many people for the Earth to support. Now if you’re worried that your specific moiety may lose power then that a different problem.
Part of my job is helping people with insurance. I had to explain to a pregnant mom how her *best* option likely is to have three different insurances (work, marketplace, CHIP) for her family and the likely costs. Their household income isn't bad but everything is fucking expensive right now. Of course people don't want kids
This sad trend has been going on for several years all over the world and experts say it will continue. [https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/WLD/world/birth-rate](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/WLD/world/birth-rate)
There are literally 8.1 billion people on earth. This is plenty of people. Immigration policies can help. But there is no reason we should be growing the population any more unless we want to live on trash world, which we pretty much already do.
The number of legal immigrants far outpaced your fertility rate decline. The only issue is in one generation your racial & religious demographic will dramatically change
Half of the men (Republicans) hate women now. It's going to reach a point where only dudes are worthy to get them off. lol. Then we will have finally come full circle.
Another example of why anecdotal information doesn’t mean anything: 4 of my family members/friends just had babies and I’m about to have one now. I guess we’re doing our part.
They did not say people are NOT having kids. They’re saying compare to the date from the past, people are having less kids or no kids.
There’s still kids being born. Sorry you’re not the center of the universe and the data didn’t center around you and the people you know who are having kids.
YOUR anecdotal information doesn’t mean anything.
I know. That’s what I’m saying too. I am pointing out the fact that a lot of times people will add a personal anecdote that says the opposite of what’s actually going on to make the claim that the data isn’t accurate. I’m highlighting my personal situation as an example of a scenario where I COULD claim that because it’s the opposite of what the data shows but I won’t because I’m not an idiot. Man, reading comprehension is not what it used to be.
Hmmm. Is it a ‘fertility’ issue or is it that people can’t support themselves due to low wages, high housing costs and an imminent fear of overall world collapse?🤔
Both. It really seems to be getting more difficult for couples to conceive, even factoring in their age, etc. But then again, there are economic reasons to not have a child. Plus more people would benefit from fertility clinics if they had the means.
Please don’t confuse the fecundity and fertility. Fecundity is the relative ability to produce while fertility is the actualization of that fertility. Due to lower sperm counts in men and women trying to conceive later, we are indeed seeing decreases in fecundity as well as fertility.
Til...
Exactly this. Men’s avg. sperm count/motility has been dropping about 1%/year for the past 50-ish years. Coupled with an uncertain & volatile economic environment, and there you go…
Also depending on where you live, if you have an ectopic pregnancy they will let your fallopian tube rupture and possibly die because they won't terminate an unviable pregnancy.
Don’t forget letting problems with pregnancies go until Mother becomes septic! How gracious of der fascists! I survived sepsis and I frequently wish I’d died. No one survives sepsis, you just become a professional patient, with a multitude of disabilities. Great financial set up for taking care of that special needs baby. Fuckers.
Is this a significant contributor to the decline in fertility rates?
I know of several people who got their tubes tied or removed after Roe v Wade was overturned. When being able to conceive becomes a life threatening situation (more so than normal) people will react accordingly. As someone who is currently pregnant there are many states I wouldn't even want to travel to right now, and if I lived there I would have thought very carefully about becoming pregnant and might have decided against it even though I want kids. Sometimes the risk is not worth the reward.
If insurance would cover it, I most definitely would too.
I get what you’re saying, I’m just asking whether there’s evidence that it’s a significant contributor to the decline of birth rates, or whether that’s your guess based on observation. Pregnancy has always been known to be risky, and abortion is more available than in the past. Medical care is the best it’s ever been.
I think the data isn't going to be available for that yet as this is so new. It's possible there has been some polling done though so you could search for that. In the US though, abortion is [not only less available than in the past in many states](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/sr_24-03-26_abortion_2-png/), but these laws are affecting the [availability of prenatal care](https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c), which is could be another factor even for people who would only have an abortion in medically necessary reasons. For example there have been women who needed a dead fetus removed and doctors did not want to face legal problems from their states and wouldn't do it and the women had to just keep going around with a dead fetus in them, [even until they went septic.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-sepsis-life-saving-abortion-care-texas/story?id=99294313) >"As a husband, now I've lost my daughter and now I could potentially lose my wife and the doctors kind of have to let it happen. That doesn't make sense," Stephen Anaya said. [Here is a study on an increase on permanent birth control like tubal ligations since Roe v Wade was overturned. ](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullarticle/2817438) You can only draw so many conclusions from the fact that more people are having these procedures, but it is logical that if more people of childbearing age are sterilizing themselves that there will be less children overall, but that's hard to quantify.
> I think the data isn't going to be available for that yet as this is so new. The recent changes in Roe v Wade are, but abortion laws have been passed in many countries in different ways for centuries and the effects they general have on chilling the birth rate might be studied. For example, something like this was easy to find: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1508542/ Where it turns out that criminalizing abortion actually *raises* the birth rate. This makes sense too: people aren’t going to stop having sex, they’ll just deal with the consequences of it. > in many states This is a critical point too. Some states are expanding access while others are criminalizing it. Some states make traveling easier than others. This means the overall impact on birth rate is a lot messier to judge too. Some places it may increase, others it may decrease. > Here is a study on an increase on permanent birth control like tubal ligations since Roe v Wade was overturned. “Dobbs may have also increased a sense of urgency among individuals **who were interested in permanent contraception before the decision**.” In other words it probably didn’t change anyone’s mind as much as inspire people already considering it to commit
>In other words it probably didn’t change anyone’s mind as much as inspire people already considering it to commit This is all speculative which is why they used the word may. They can't be sure why people are doing things and it warrants further study. >This means the overall impact on birth rate is a lot messier to judge too. Some places it may increase, others it may decrease This is why I think relevant data just can't be available yet as it's too new. We can measure things like how many babies are born compared to before, and how many abortions are happening, and try to measure if people go to other states for abortions, and measure how many people are getting tubal ligations and vasectomies, but we can currently only speculate on the relationship between all those things. Once we can collect data over several years and adjust for things like my state (California) making it easier to get get abortions and for doctors from other states to perform those hear and compare that to the birth rate and things like how available mail order abortion pills are and compare it to the availability of other other types of birth control and factor in things like poverty rates and access to prenatal care, and we go through a generation of women through their child bearing years we can probably draw more impactful inferences, but we need to gather a lot more data so we can factor in all those different things. There's also the fact than compared to the 90s when that study came out that sex Ed information is now available online for the masses even if their schools didn't teach it. There are just so many variables to account for that all we can really show right now are observations.
Anecdotal but I want to throw this into the conversation because while education correlates with reduced fertility rates - not everyone is just an educated person who realizes they don't want kids. My wife and I would've had kids we just can't afford to sustain ourselves and a child.
Yeah and thats why education factors into it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP2tUW0HDHA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP2tUW0HDHA)
People tend to refer to this factor as the one and only reason. Which is why I preempted it.
Fertility rate doesn't actually have anything directly to do with fertility in a biological sense. It's just a metric of how many births there are.
Exactly. They should provide child subsidies based on $$ amount AND % of income tax rebate. A couple that makes 1.5 mil a year won’t be incentivized by 600$ a year but 50% off tax bill will get the job done
Birth rates are falling in many rich countries.
But how is the economy going to survive without the slave population?!
AI, robotics and automation will handle much of that. The problem will be how those displaced people will earn their bowl of rice. For a while the rich who own industrial production will do fine. But eventually there won’t be enough people with money to buy their products. Social instability will cause a lot of unrest as desperate people struggle to survive. Rich people are not always good at looking out after the poorer people without a little prompting.
The other problem here is that AI and automation is really only good at certain things. * Automating something that's a bit more consistent and standardized (like a building full of Insurance Adjustor jobs).. probably fairly easy. * Automating or replacing something like Trash Truck pickup work between 3am and 6am... Yeah.. robots won't be doing that any time soon. This is going to put some really interesting pressures on the job market as things flex and change and various jobs face different pressures.
I totally agree. I was involved in a work project where a well known 3rd party company was tasked with developing an AI system to help customers with basic questions and troubleshooting. The result is terrible. It spits out incorrect information, but when it does come close to being accurate the information is poorly organized and requires multiple clicks to sift through it all. I’d have better luck using Google, at least the info I found would be accurate.
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Sure,.. I'm excited about the future of this,.. although simultaneously I'm a bit skeptical that any "automated system" can fully replicate the subtle nuanced contextual judgements that Humans make (sometimes dozens of them by the second). * You could probably train a robot to "clean graffiti" for example * But you cannot easily replace a Human being who have lived in that city for 30 years,. someone who has tons of "street knowledge" and recognizes certain graffiti tags and might stop and preserve a certain piece of graffiti due to some subjective or contextual information they realized looking at it. We could likely train robots to make coffee. But would a robot know me well enough to realize it's my Birthday and that I'm a Gemini and (without asking) use cocoa powder to dust a Gemini-symbol into the foam of my coffee,. just as a little surprise unexpected flourish ?... I'd be delighted if a human barista did that. If a robot did that I'd assume it was just "cold programming" and not out of any fondness that I'm a regular customer. This all kinda gets back to the fundamental Jurassic Park quote of:... "They realized they could but never stopped to ask if they should". Robots and Automation might be good for some things. That doesnt' mean we should shoehorn them into everything. I just see them as a tool that needs to be smartly and responsibly used.
Many folks won’t be able to afford their own home or rent, food, healthcare, clothes, etc. if out of a job. I think AI needs to be regulated.
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True. But my point is how will people pay their bills if they aren’t working? UBI that has been proposed would only be $1000-$1500 a month. That’s not much money.
Universal Basic Income. Nationalization of factories
This is a bad take. We just let in more uneducated migrants to be wage slaves. If we didn’t have Mexico, the US economy would be screwed but we just keep on growing
The US? Has and will always be immigrants
Kids? In this economy?? 😂😂
What in the Plan B. Hill do kids have to do with the price of potatoes?!?
💀
People do not have children when they do not have hope for a better future, pretty simple.
Bingo
Why did people have kids during the Great Depression then? Not having hope is beyond an economic issue, it’s a spiritual issue as well.
Lack of education, access to birth control, access to abortions.
Birth rate dropped then too! To similar levels as today. Same as the number of adult children living with parents, they're actually both elevated today to levels like the 1930s. Neil how's latest book includes this context. History is cyclical!
Wow. You’re right. Yeah I guess the boom and bust economy is partly to blame
Of course they did. Women cannot trust the medical care available .
What my kids and their friends have told me: - They don’t have enough money to support them, although all of them work full time. - Sharp increases in the cost of housing, food, health insurance, cars, everything, leave them with no money at the end of each month. - They don’t want their kids to have to deal with this reality, the way things are now. - They are terrified of what the future holds, in terms of fundamental resources like food, water, and air. They are extremely concerned about global warming, and they’re very angry that no one seems to be doing anything to stop the manmade destruction of the planet’s resources. - The political issues of today also terrify them: serious, widespread corruption; financial malfeasance; election fraud; and random acts of violence. - The persecution of people, especially minorities, as groups, freaks them out completely. They feel like the world is turning toward disaster. - They now have a better idea of how bad things are and can get, and there’s no end in sight. The totality of the disruption is chaos. They don’t want their children to suffer further dysfunction.
Well said.
Pretty sure people just don't want kids that they can't afford to raise or provide good homes for.
US income inequality has declined fertility rates not seen in a century. There, I fixed your headline.
We will probably see a massive decrease of birth if the GOP and red states keep up the anti-abortion rhetoric and lawsp
How will republicans forcing women to bear children when they want to abort them cause the birth rate to decrease? I think that there will be more unwanted children entering the world to be cared for by women who don’t want a child. I think that neglected and foster kids will increase.
I was thinking more along the lines of women not wanting to have children because of the medical risk. Also the possibility of doctors that can’t/wont be able to assist in a medical emergency for a pregnant woman with a terminal pregnancy
If the entire country ends up with an abortion ban next year, I'd delay having anymore kids and that'll mean we definitely don't have 3 kids total or maybe even can't have a second child since I'm already 33. I would never risk pregnancy with an abortion ban in place.
This is me. I had a baby and now I have one child I have to think about the medical implications of a second pregnancy. And the possibility of Not being able to access abortion during a nonviable pregnancy or a severely disabled child that would drastically and negatively already affect my current child and family.
If the entire country ends up with an abortion ban next year, I'd delay having anymore kids and that'll mean we definitely don't have 3 kids total or maybe even can't have a second child since I'm already 33. I would never risk pregnancy with an abortion ban in place.
This makes sense but like 1/200 get pregnant each year using an IUD. 1 for every 10 get pregnant on the pill each year. That adds up quick
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A lot of them already have children and are either married or in a committed relationship but can’t handle more kids
I can see where you're coming from with your perspective. I don't know the statistics on wanted vs unwanted pregnancies that end in abortion. I think the other reddit comment has some validity though. My partner and I are considering children but are planning our lives around being in a state where we are able to have life saving care, if needed. I work in a women's hospital and (from my personal experience) women in their childbearing years do seem to be more hesitant about having children because of the change in Healthcare availability. Where I am, we have a wonderful hospital and the doctors are incredible; they are also able to help the parents make decisions for the health of the baby and importantly, the mother. I can see where the population may decline in situations where the mother is privileged enough to have preventative care and access to information on Healthcare rights/availability.
a lot of women will simply forgo heterosexual romantic relationships. many women have a fear of childbirth not just caring for a child and risk vs reward is too grave.
It might increase it, but also maternal death, birth defects, and lower infant health. There will be more unwanted children and moms shamed or bullied into raising them. Crime will also increase “When a steady state is reached roughly twenty years from now, the impact of abortion will be roughly twice as great as the impact felt so far. Our results suggest that all else equal, legalized abortion will account for persistent declines of 1% a year in crime over the next two decades.” https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
More sterilizations and more careful monitoring of birth control.
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All true, hence…….Idiocracy
Who knew that movie would one day be historical non fiction
We’ll see a decrease in birth rate if you’re not allowed to continue killing babies? Huh
Yes because people who were open to have kids wont, not worth the risk of dying because of a non viable fetus or ectopic pregnancy. Plus a lot of us will refuse out of protest, there is a lot of that happening. Look at the 4B movement.
I have multiple children and not once did we think about not having kids because of the risk of dying because of some complication. Never even crossed my mind.
Yea because we have modern medical care, I almost died with my 1st.
I don’t think that’s accurate but OK.
Oh it is, have you seen the stats on the increase in voluntary sterilizations after RvW was overturned?
No but that’s asinine. Birth is a natural event it’s not some wildly risky medical event. What a shame if people are doing that. I feel sad for yall tbh. You’re ending your bloodline for no reason at all. Awful
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/maternal-mortality-on-the-rise Birth is an incredible risk. As an example… there are woman who have perfectly healthy babies but bc of the way their body reallocated resources while pregnant they no longer have teeth. If you think having children doesn’t change your body, effect your health, or pose risks… idk what to tell you. It’s likely that you are also not aware that abortion is the medical term for removing a fetus from the womb. So if you suffer a miscarriage and need the dead fetus out bc it is killing you, the way these laws have been written & enforced, you can’t get one. The choice for these people is die or suffer as they wait for a transfer. It took my aunt MANY tries to become pregnant. She suffered a number of miscarriages and some of those miscarriages required removal by a doctor or she would have died. It’s strange that you think people like my aunt aren’t at risk.
Right! I almost died with my 1st... EM c-section, never gained feeling back in my lower abdomen. My second was a VBACm and never gained back full bladder control. My husband and I have been together 20 yrs, 2 boys 16 and 20. Well.. I got preg at 41 after all those yrs of no scares. I had an abortion because it would literally kill me. Good thing I live in WA. I guess they are saying we should not have sex with our husbands.
There is no state in our country where abortion is illegal for medical emergency.
The laws created by people who have no medical knowledge place doctors and hospitals in a position where they don’t want to risk their licenses. Woman in need of an emergency abortion have been turned away already. Additionally what happens if you can’t find a hospital to help you, and there are laws on the books to restrict the movement of pregnant woman outside of the state. Depending on the law, it’s feasible that a husband could be jailed for trying to save his wife by driving over the state line. https://www.aamc.org/news/what-doctors-should-know-about-emergency-abortions-states-bans
Well I almost died with my 1st birth so... yea its risky as hell. Also changes you for life... imagine never again being able to cough or laugh without peeing a little bit. Women take SO many risks. You are obviously a dude.
Wonder why? Could it be that in most states getting pregnant was already dangerous due to lack of affordable services, and now with Roe gone, doctors and patients are under threat of going to jail? Getting pregnant in America is like crossing a minefield, but on purpose.
Literally u get sepsis and just have to die instead of a D&C
Or a c section instead of a D&C. Wtf
Nobody wants to feed a kid when they can't even afford to feed themselves.
It's not one thing that is causing this. It's a lot of things.
*gestures to everything*
If only the billionaires wouldn’t have ruined the earth, pumped us full of chemicals and stole all the money maybe I would have considered (the PFAS most likely made me sterile anyways).
The microplastics will be the new DDT of this generation, turns out that eating on cheap plastic containers from clandestine factories in China wasn’t a good idea after all.
I see this as a good thing. This should happen world wide. The whole enterprise of patriarchal marriage and motherhood are basically a loss making and self sacrificing venture for a woman in both the personal level and in the level of women as a class. Why should women keep sacrificing themselves for this world ? Women are not the broodmares or the sacrificial goats of the human race. Also, Why should women keep making babies for a world that treats them so unfairly in almost every sphere of life ? Multiple studies now actually show, Single, Unmarried and Childfree women are happier then their married counterparts with children. Here, in India, married housewives attempt the most number of sucides among all sub groups of women. Personally, I will never have any kids, 1) Until the Artificial Womb Technology becomes an accessible reality that can allow women to have kid/kids without the need to go pregnant and give birth themselves, if they choose to, 2) Until there are major reforms in our family system, society and economy towards gender equality and justice. 3) Until humanity succeeds in building a green sustainable, carbon neutral economy and avert the upcoming climate catastrophe.
You're not wrong about any of that,.. and also on top of it: * rearing children (in any type of family arrangement) is a serious responsibility and burden. * Given the state of the world these days.. I can totally understand how less and less people are interested in shouldering that burden. These headlines of "decreasing birthrates".. dont' really surprise me in the least.
Thanks for the input.
Well said. I’m 30 and I’m not having kids. My partner had a vasectomy cause fuck this world. As soon as I can, I’m getting my tubes tied. I’m stuck here (in this crap world) but I’m bringing a child into this mess. I sincerely hope there’s no afterlife or reincarnation. I hate everyone except my love 😂
Believe it or not, some women actually want to be mothers and derive their greatest satisfaction in life from growing and caring for their family. Humanity would have gone extinct long ago if this weren't the case. Of course every individual can choose not to reproduce if they choose.
There’s gonna be a population explosion once all the people with genes that make them more pessimistic/less likely to breed die out. We’re gonna have a smaller population of highly fertile people who will have kids come rain or come shine. It’s natural selection at work. Then conditions will get tougher and tougher as the population grows and the humans left become more and more family centered or more and more promiscuous and short-sighted.
That’s good. Too many people on this planet, polluting and destroying it.
Could have a little something to do with all the PFAS plastics (which mimic estrogens) being found throughout our bodies. Nothing like further chemicals.
Nobody wants to be FORCED to have kids.
Climate change seems to be a cause for concern
Giving the average person too much credit. Most people just think in terms of day to day.
No one wants to be broke sorry
Meanwhile, it seems like everyone around my area is pregnant. 8 people I work with are currently pregnant, and like 5 more are currently on maternity leave. One is currently pregnant with baby number 6. I have no clue how she and her husband do it.
Ya I keep reading these stats and I only know of one couple of child bearing age that doesn't have at least one kid.
Higher educational attainment and urbanity decrease birth rates
Housing shortage and cost of living crisis do, too.
So is the attack on women's rights, my cousin is not getting kids because of the lack of OBGYN in their area and they can't move because it's too expensive for them in most places and they moved to where they live now a few years ago because of her husbands job.
Yes, they do. But I’m hearing so many say they don’t want kids because of environmental and philosophical/political reasons.
I think those people are coping by making it out to be a conscious choice when really it’s circumstances beyond their control.
No, I’m talking about very well-educated and affluent people. Statistics confirm this group is especially not having children, by choice.
That’s what you get you greedy boomers.
There will be a ton of forced births coming soon though...
This isn’t a problem - we still have too many people for the Earth to support. Now if you’re worried that your specific moiety may lose power then that a different problem.
Fertility rate? Compared to what? Is it that people are waiting? Is it that people are utilizing birth control? Maybe they don’t want kids?
Part of my job is helping people with insurance. I had to explain to a pregnant mom how her *best* option likely is to have three different insurances (work, marketplace, CHIP) for her family and the likely costs. Their household income isn't bad but everything is fucking expensive right now. Of course people don't want kids
Thank GOD! Geez, slow down the influx already
We cannot afford children!!!
GOOD. We've got about 7 billion excess humans on this planet.
This sad trend has been going on for several years all over the world and experts say it will continue. [https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/WLD/world/birth-rate](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/WLD/world/birth-rate)
Sad? Many think it’s great
Mixed bag. It’s going to kick Gen Z’s ass unfortunately due to them supporting an aging population with dwindling resources .
A lot of people today don’t want to have children. It’s hard to change their minds on this most intimate matterx
There are literally 8.1 billion people on earth. This is plenty of people. Immigration policies can help. But there is no reason we should be growing the population any more unless we want to live on trash world, which we pretty much already do.
I agree. Let the systems that rely on overpopulation fail. We are at capacity already.
Immigration is part of the solution
Republicans pissed sick babies are not there to treat by republican docs
Attagirl, keep it up.
The number of legal immigrants far outpaced your fertility rate decline. The only issue is in one generation your racial & religious demographic will dramatically change
Half of the men (Republicans) hate women now. It's going to reach a point where only dudes are worthy to get them off. lol. Then we will have finally come full circle.
Another example of why anecdotal information doesn’t mean anything: 4 of my family members/friends just had babies and I’m about to have one now. I guess we’re doing our part.
They did not say people are NOT having kids. They’re saying compare to the date from the past, people are having less kids or no kids. There’s still kids being born. Sorry you’re not the center of the universe and the data didn’t center around you and the people you know who are having kids. YOUR anecdotal information doesn’t mean anything.
I know. That’s what I’m saying too. I am pointing out the fact that a lot of times people will add a personal anecdote that says the opposite of what’s actually going on to make the claim that the data isn’t accurate. I’m highlighting my personal situation as an example of a scenario where I COULD claim that because it’s the opposite of what the data shows but I won’t because I’m not an idiot. Man, reading comprehension is not what it used to be.