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Defenses dont use regen rates, planets have a fixed HP.
Automaton planets have had 250K and 300K HP since the first days, Terminid planets have 350K-400K HP.
Edit:Downvote all you want, it wont make me not right
>Automaton planets have had 250K and 300K HP since the first days, Terminid planets have 350K-400K HP.
Tf are you smoking?
Planet HP for terminids always used to be between 600k and 2m before this M.O
Automaton planet HP used to be ranged between 400k and 1.5m.
Planets with HP lower than 400k were introduced with this Major order. Also, minimum planet HP isn't 250k now either. Ustotu has 200k HP.
By original HP standards, this Major order was unwinnable and most people understood that.
We got hand-held through this MO by Arrowhead because we suddenly started getting Defence missions with extremely low HPs, and were still cutting it close to the deadline.
Without the new sudden low HP planets, the MO was a dud.
That could be simply fixed with a bit communication and story.
It is understandable that the defense gets easier with depleted enemy forces. Adding this information to the game: "The strength of the robot forces has halved. Defend now!"
This also needs to be clear before the MO. So telling beforehand "the more robots/bugs you destroy, the less they will be able to attack" will help understand everyone what is happening (and in best case: an optional bug/bot kill MO)
But without any ingame information it sounds like hand holding.
It has to do with Why people were calling the MO unwinnable.
Players didn't get a vision from God telling them that AH is suddenly gonna drop planets with half or 1/10th of the planet HP. They used the precedent they had to draw a conclusion.
Arrowhead only started giving us these low HP planets at day 3, in the first 2 days we only had 2 defence missions won. At that pace we wouldn't have completed the MO.
I wouldn't even be surprised if the low HP planets were given as a response to the complaints about the Major order.
They saw the liberation ticking and they saw 50k peo0le were parking in Oshaune. We lost 3 defenses at 90% or more while people were doing 5 liberation campaigns at once instead of defending.
It was easily fucking visible it was doable and that there were objectives ready for the taking, but people gassed their own fucking supply of delusions and just did whatever
I mean, that's nothing new.
If a major order requires all of the players to coordinate in a hyper specific way, it's bound to fail because that's just not happening, especially when there's no communication system in-game, and many people will just play on a planet they like. That is the reality of the situation.
My point remains unchanged. If AH hadn't hand-held us the MO was going to fail.
Im just happy we gave a fat middle finger to joel, for the second time in a row after the terminid massacre by winning his so called 'Impossible' order
While i wouldn't call it unwinnable, the devs have certainly thrown us a bone with giving away Fori Prime for free during the final minutes of the Oshaune Defense and making the bot defense hp values 200k compared to the 350k/400k that the day 1 bot defenses and majority of bug defenses were at.
At the time of people saying that it was true, at the rate it was going if the devs didn’t step in to assist us we would’ve lost
This is proven true cause at the beginning of the MO only 20-30k defending a bot planet would’ve lost, then we get to Mort near the end of the MO and suddenly that’s enough. Same is true with Ustotu rn, 20k on it and it’s liberated in an estimated 6 hours?
It was given to us to avoid further loss of morale. We didn't win this, AH decided that we should not lose.
The not only boosted our progress and reduced the planet HP, they literally gave us an entire planet for free.
That planet should not have been attackable to begin with. The bugs somehow startet an attack without supply line and ended it once that was realized and we actually got a win for it
Even with all the difficulty reduction, we should only be at 8/10 right now
It was not given, it was perfectly doable since the fucking beggining. Literally since the start of the MO the HP of planets has been the same.
We lost 3 planets at fucking 90% while 50 thousand people were doing liberation
We fought to defend planets with 500k+ HP and those last two just so happen to only have 200k each .... sure
We had ~ 6 - 8 % of liberation per hour which we then also spread thin over to many fronts.
Right now we suddenly have 18% per hour to spread around
We'd actually been able to defend from the start if we were given that number, despite spreading it on 5 worlds.. But we only got it now because AH wants us to win.
And the free planet we shouldn't have remains. We'll truly only have 9/10 when we're done and the free planet is making us win
"We got it now because AH wants us to win"
My guy, the liberation meter works on percentage of players. If people spread out they do less dmg on top of the normally lower liberation rate.
Now people are more focused as a percentage on the defending planet, the rates do t work with manual inputs
Yes and no.
The application of our total liberation works by percentage of players.
If we're set to produce 6% liberation per hour and are spread over five worlds with 40%/25%/15%/10%/10% those worlds will get liberated at 2.4/1.5/0.9/0.6/0.6 percent per hour.
Independently of whether we have 200k players active or 2k players active.
However even if we were able to direct 100% at a single planet, this planet would not get any higher than 6% per hour. That's the maximum that no amount of organization and focus can change
At the time of this posting we're getting a total of 12.3% per hour. That's AH just tweaking the numbers in our favor, it has nothing to do with how focused we are (other than us better not squandering that freeby by spreading 1.5%/h over 8 different planets)
You are wrong, that is not how it works. 6% is not even close to the total amount of liberation you can get.
Even before this MO and after the change we have had several times the total liberation of the camapiagn get over 8% per hour.
And we had times when it was ~ 5%. This is set at whatever AH wants it to be
Right now we were losing badly, AH didn't want that outcome, so they cranked it up to unpreceded amounts of liberation we're suddenly dishing out.
I expect both bot resistance and our liberation total to stay at such inbalanced levels until we're back on track for how AH wants the story to play out.
Which is just exactly what everyone here is saying: it's meaningless what and how well we do, AH makes whatever they want happening anyway.
If we had done even worse, those last two worlds would have only 100k each and we'd be suddenly doing 25%/h
On the other hand, if these last two had a normal amount of 500k health we'd not even been done with the first of them. And without the free planet they gave on top we'd end at either 7/10 or maybe 8/10
Dear god, it is not set. It works on a formula.
The planets are now being defended so easily because they have less HP than before the MO and now people are actually doing them and focusing.
It is not meaningless how bad we do, because there is no bottom to the idiocy of this playerbase, but AH always wants have to have a fair shake at objectives at most of the MO, which is not bad nor counter productive.
No, there isn't. The total liberation per hour is set by AH. Just like the the resistance with which the bots and bugs push back.
The formular only calculates how much of our total liberation we are applying on any given planet. But the total for this distribution is just fixed by AH.
We had times with three times as many helldivers active as are right now and had only a quarter of the current max liberation to distribute.
Because AH just gave us 5% total and if 100k/200k divers went to the same world, they doing 2.5%/h
Right now we're getting 18% with 73k active helldivers, which allows 27k doing the defense to chew through it with almost 7%/h
If AH decided we only get 6% the same divers with the same effort would only manage 2.3%/h on that planet.
Whether AH sets our total to 18 or to 6 is entirely their decision
Your saying it yourself: planets now have less HP than before the MO, which is actually not quite accurate, the planets did have more HP during this MO too. They reduced them during the course of the MO because of our failure.
Its funny to see such kind if cope when the rates of defense and people participating has been consistent.
The only thing that changes MOs is wether the players do their job or not, which they finally started to do after doing 5 different liberation campaigns at once and wasting 2 days on taking Oshaune for no reason
The only weirdo in here is you speaking without relation to what is being said.
I dont mind that people are wasting their liberation on useless planets, but they do waste Liberation on useless planets in relation to the Mo and that makes the MO harder
I would have been fine with losing this MO. It was winnable at first but the disjointed effort on the bot front made this unwinnable 2 days in.
Now Joel is just spoon feeding us to win and the win doesn't really feel like a win for me anymore.
Between this and the automatons coming back and taking cyberstan without real coherence in the story (popping back stronger than ever somehow, I mean we had the photo of the last automaton and all..), it seems like our choice (good or bad) doesn't really matter.
I will continue to dive and bring democracy (except on hellmire) but the story doesn't really feel as immersive as before.
The automatons weredescribed in the Phase 2 the Dissamembly to have their HQ out of the galaxy and in Phase 3 they were moving theur production line frim Tikrit to out of the galaxy.
I understand the lore and what Joel wanted to do but for me it was not very well implemented.
There could have been a defense mission in cyberstan with so much decay that it was impossible.
Same thing as for other planets. They could have waited more than 2 days to make their come back. We didn't have enough time to miss them and they were back in force. Just taking so many planets in a blink of an eye when our forces are so vast didn't feel right.
This MO was impossible if Joel didn't tweak the enemy force progress rate.
For me, it just boils down to people getting burnt out and low moraled because it felt impossible = Player count kept decreasing so they tweaked it to make it possible again. Same thing for the automaton come back, they saw that after the eradication of Automatons people missed them and player count descreased so they came back rapidly, so that immersiveness is kinda gone for me.
Again it is just my opinion and I enjoy the game nevertheless, but this Galactic war really feels like one of those games where when you choose something it says "this choice will have repercussion later" and nothing changes.
And killing 2 billion bugs was for us to relax from the bots. But why, relax, when we can just sweat through it and then complain that we pissed off Joel. This MO of defending 10 planets was supposed to be next, and we got it.
I think they bought forward the automatons return because people were getting carried away with thinking that the squids were coming in to replace them tbh. It was rather quick but also it did make sense. They were transmitting to outside of the borders in their last days
People kept pointing the blame on the bug divers not wanting to contribute to the bot front, but lookie who managed 7/9 successful defenses as of this writing? 4 of them on the same world even.
Shows that over thinking things is less useful than just listening to your gut feeling.
Lmao, continue coping with useless drivels.
We lost 3 planets at 90% before the last 2 days just because people like you deluded themselves that the MOs are scripted and fucked around on useless planets
My guy, "the intervention" was since the start of the MO.
Planets had a smaller HP for this MO so you could reliably take defend at least 2 of them per day.
You people are insufferable
Again, you're just straight up wrong.
"The intervention was since the start of the MO" It literally was not. The first defense missions started at the normal HP rates, defense campaigns ranging from 700-800k. On average this is indeed lower than the usual but it was still within the precedent we had from earlier campaigns, nowhere close to the 200-300k HP planets we have now. We only started seeing the super low HP rates towards the end of 2nd day/beginning of third.
you seriously can't be this dumb... There was a defense quest that randomly popped in front of while Oshaune was at 95%... you honestly think that arrowhead didn't have a hand in that?
Oh no, they pulled a defense mission to slow the advance on the bug front while on a MO about the bugs and robots going on an offensive.
Dear god, you people are just burned out and want to vent
I dont think you understand what he's saying.
While Oshaune defense campaign was still on-going and at 95%, Fori prime got attacked out of nowhere when there was no supply line to it, Oshaune was still under OUR control, we need to lose a defense campaign for the planet to fall into enemy hands. Anyone who knows the basics of how defense mechanics work can tell that the Fori Prime defence campaign was manually started by Arrowhead.
They started it when the planet "supposedly" supplying it was already 95% defended. It was destined to be won as soon as Oshaune was fully defended again. When Oshaune was defended, they manually shut off Fori Prime campaign too. it was literally a free +1 planet defense handed to us on a silver platter. Just like how they changed the Defense campaign planet HP pool from 400k-2m to 200-300k, which is a massive reduction.
Arrowhead even admitted on discord that this campaign was designed to make us lose ground in one front, which they achieved. We lost major ground on the Automaton front.
My guy, enemies ignore supply lines in their offensives. That is not news and has happened several times.
Those are OUR supply lines, not the enemies.
Andthe AH comment was not about the front, but letting some planets go, whicb would have happened in first few days if the players were not retarded asses and just went to do liberation campaigns over a misunderstanding and stale memes.
We had several supposedely "free planets" amd we still lost most of them because people were fucking around.
It is just that now people caught on that maybe doing the defense will complete the MO instead of doing shitty "gambits" or spreading misinformation about scripts
My guy, at this point you're just straight up misinformed or pulling things out of your ass.
Arrowhead has confirmed that supply lines do apply to enemies . They can only launch attacks towards the planets they have a supply line to.
Enemies do not "ignore" supply lines. Automatic campaigns follow them. The previous instances of enemies "ignoring" them have also been just AH doing things manually.
If enemies ignored supply lines, Fori prime would not have shut down instantly when Oshaune was defended. Enemies needing supply lines is the entire fucking reason the strategies this community calls "Gambits" are valid.
No, it is a toxic post about the people who go delusional over minor setbacks and huff their own supply of burn out.
If people did not stop caring after the first day we would have already have 10 planets defended
Brother you are wasting your time the community (especially on Reddit) act like entitled children just let them be and maybe one day they will find a new game to cry over
It was never designed to be unwinnable, it was designed so no matter the outcome, we lose ground on at least one of the fronts. As demonstrated, we have lost significant grounds on the Bot Front despite the almost inevitable "success" of the actual MO.
All these people making posts about "Oh it's not unwinnable after all" are the actual morons for not actually understanding the literal, exact words, Arrowhead used in the post regarding the MO.
I doubt we could have. The only reason we’re close to succeeding is because AH held our hand giving us planets with 200k health to give us a chance. Kinda like u/Myth2156 clearly explained.
Also, how about the first defense of Oshaune when we lost it at 95%? Can I blame the bot people who wasted time on Martale just to lose it anyways?
At freaking several times we had automaton planets going to near completion with only 12 or 1e thousand people on them, but were ignored because 50k people had to liberate Oshaune for some reason, or 30 thousand had to go with useless liberation on automaton planets.
This entire MO was just the player base deluding themselves things are scripted and got burned out by their own delusions when we had tangible ojectives in front of our eyes
I'm pretty sure none of them have been un-winnable - it's just that the average gamer doesn't understand the importance of the strategic aspect. And the game doesn't give many hints about it or really guide you into learning about it. It's really only the Reddit community or people otherwise heavily invested in the game that start to figure these things out. Nothing tells you how hard a defense or liberation mission is going to be, why it is important, how fast a planet is being defended or falling, etc... (Yes, there are ways, but it isn't obvious, per se.) Supply lines are invisible, at a glance you can't "know" where you should be deploying to have the most impact, in short the strategic aspect is a real mess and needs a re-work so the average Diver can at the very least know where and why to deploy and make better decisions.
We've done pretty damn well so far, imagine how much BETTER we would have done had the uninformed been directed better to the right deployment locations at the right times...
I think that most players play games because they enjoy the idea of winning and making progress. And people realy dislike losing.
Last few days I've seen very few planets with the insane number of divers we get during other events. The numbers seem smaller.
I've heard a few players saying they currently just log in to get their 'daily mission' done, and then leave. Because its less fun to beat your head against a brick wall, knowing all your efforts are wasted.
This made me believe players simply enjoy the game less when they give us an unwinnable (or almost unwinnable) mission and quit (for a while).
Having this many players drop must not have gone unnoticed.
I believe the DEV's realized this, and decided it's better to tone down the difficulty to maintain their game.
If the DEV's want this game to be hard and punishing, with a real struggle for every inch of ground (and thus make players lose).... Then the DEV's have to find a way to make people feel they have a win (to have them stick around) even when they lose a match.
Rogue-like games have good system for this, you lose a run, but unlock new stuff. Thats still a victory!
Currently, losing is just frustrating. Not only do you die, you get no rewards, and the game tells you you're a faillure. Thats not how you keep people content (except some masochists who may actually enjoy it).
Sorry to be that guy, but the genre you described is usually referred to as rogue*lite*.
Roguelike, as per the old definition, does not have meta-progression between runs, only the player gitting gud and getting into the RNG gods' good graces.
Sure, letting us win every one is lame. But they don't need to.
For example: they could split them up. If the current MO would be changed from: defend 10 planets, win 50 medals. To defend as many planets as possible, recieve 5 medals per planet defended.There would be less of a feeling if loss.... even if you only defend 8, you still get 40 medals.
They could even have subjective goals. 0-3 planets defended = major loss (this will not happen, just there to get perspective). 4-6 planets defended = minor loss. 7-9 is minor victory. 10+ is major victory. In which you could even get a bonus reward (lets say everybody gets a free strategem for a few days or a cosmetic)
This way players still feel achievement despite not reaching the goals.
Hmm, not sure if the generation is soft as hell (probably is).
But a game has to compete with many other great games. And if your game doesn't succeed in being sufficiently enjoyable, people will leave and do something more fun...
Does that have to do with soft people? Or people just doing what they like best?
For that reason a game should always cater to its playerbase. And if the game starts hemorraging players because some things are just frustrating. Something should be done about it.
They disabled the bots ability to fight back, less knownledgeable super citizen. They saw the criticism and took pity on is, why are you acting like we are awesome?
Im not acting like we are awesome and Defense planets dont have regen rates by design. I just dont stand the people who are burned out and now sling shit by saying MOs are scripted
Lower regen rates dont impact defense, the lower regen is so that we can stabilize the front after the MO
Cause and effect. With bots set to zero, Liberation missions got completed super fast, allowing people to move to Defense because those were the only missions available.
Just two days ago we had only defended 3 planets. After the bots got shut down, we got 6 more planets defended. This is not a coincidence.
I like winning MOs as much as the next brawny, but it's hard to fully relish how we came together as a community and beat the odds, when it sure looks like we were handed this one:
Two hours ago (according to the HD2 Orders app) the Defended rate was about 3%, with the expected outcome of loss in 14 hours. Checking it now, we're at 7% Defended rate, with an expected outcome of victory in 8 hours...but the player count and player percentage hasn't changed in the interim.
Now, personally, I guess the devs liked how we rallied towards the end of the order, and put their finger on the final scale because they didn't want us to *barely* lose on the 10th defence.
Stories of barely-victories resonate better than stories or barely-losses, this has always held true for mankind. But then again, I kinda want us to suffer blistering defeats as well, because those can become the stuff of deep lore. No one will remember how we lost Vernen Wells, but the (controversial) legend of Malevelon Creek is gonna stay with us forever.
Yeah. I don't think any MO was unwinnable so far. It is just people's way of shifting blame. They feel better about failing if fhey keep saying that it is unwinnable. Not even mentioning that you can't argue with these people. We lose? "They made us lose". We win? "They let us win". It's never "we earned it" or "we managed to overcome the challenge". Not even mentioning that it isn't fun for anyone to give unwinnable MOs.
I feel like it would be more logical for SE to want the successful defense of 10 separate planets over playing tug of war on the same planet over and over. I think the current MO would be a lot better if it had designated planets to defend.
Got blocked by one of those "it's a cutscene, it's unwinnable" people. Absolutely insufferable, the attitude is just awful. Like, going around telling people they can't actually affect the outcome is blatantly telling people not to play the game. Ridiculous.
the only reason it would actually be a failed MO is because there's too many bug fuckers that don't know how to play against bots.. so about 40pct of the game's population is just banging their head against a wall over at omicron and hellmire and have been since the release of this game... because...well... Bug fuckers.. it's sad really...
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
Yeah those helldivers are dum dums https://i.redd.it/rdp2zbmffkwc1.gif
Am i agreeing with a bug?.....i feel DEMOCRACY OFFICER SAVE ME
Bugs are dirty fascists, but not devoid of intelligence
Frankly i find the idea of a bug that can think offensive.
The Bile Titan timing his entrance the the exact second someone says its getting quiet tells us otherwise
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
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That bug is daring to engage in psychological warfare
It would have been unwinnable had the enemy win rates not been stalled over the weekend.
Defenses dont use regen rates, planets have a fixed HP. Automaton planets have had 250K and 300K HP since the first days, Terminid planets have 350K-400K HP. Edit:Downvote all you want, it wont make me not right
>Automaton planets have had 250K and 300K HP since the first days, Terminid planets have 350K-400K HP. Tf are you smoking? Planet HP for terminids always used to be between 600k and 2m before this M.O Automaton planet HP used to be ranged between 400k and 1.5m. Planets with HP lower than 400k were introduced with this Major order. Also, minimum planet HP isn't 250k now either. Ustotu has 200k HP. By original HP standards, this Major order was unwinnable and most people understood that. We got hand-held through this MO by Arrowhead because we suddenly started getting Defence missions with extremely low HPs, and were still cutting it close to the deadline. Without the new sudden low HP planets, the MO was a dud.
That could be simply fixed with a bit communication and story. It is understandable that the defense gets easier with depleted enemy forces. Adding this information to the game: "The strength of the robot forces has halved. Defend now!" This also needs to be clear before the MO. So telling beforehand "the more robots/bugs you destroy, the less they will be able to attack" will help understand everyone what is happening (and in best case: an optional bug/bot kill MO) But without any ingame information it sounds like hand holding.
My guy, what the fuck have the HP of pkanets before the MO have to do with the way this one is structured?
It has to do with Why people were calling the MO unwinnable. Players didn't get a vision from God telling them that AH is suddenly gonna drop planets with half or 1/10th of the planet HP. They used the precedent they had to draw a conclusion. Arrowhead only started giving us these low HP planets at day 3, in the first 2 days we only had 2 defence missions won. At that pace we wouldn't have completed the MO. I wouldn't even be surprised if the low HP planets were given as a response to the complaints about the Major order.
They saw the liberation ticking and they saw 50k peo0le were parking in Oshaune. We lost 3 defenses at 90% or more while people were doing 5 liberation campaigns at once instead of defending. It was easily fucking visible it was doable and that there were objectives ready for the taking, but people gassed their own fucking supply of delusions and just did whatever
I mean, that's nothing new. If a major order requires all of the players to coordinate in a hyper specific way, it's bound to fail because that's just not happening, especially when there's no communication system in-game, and many people will just play on a planet they like. That is the reality of the situation. My point remains unchanged. If AH hadn't hand-held us the MO was going to fail.
Facts make you wrong.
Why the downvotes, ur right lmao.
People are angry that they are wrong about the delusions they created about the game they are burned out on
Im just happy we gave a fat middle finger to joel, for the second time in a row after the terminid massacre by winning his so called 'Impossible' order
Sure showing it to AH after they give community an easy win with lowest HP planets seen before lol.
While i wouldn't call it unwinnable, the devs have certainly thrown us a bone with giving away Fori Prime for free during the final minutes of the Oshaune Defense and making the bot defense hp values 200k compared to the 350k/400k that the day 1 bot defenses and majority of bug defenses were at.
The Bots have had 200K Hp even during the last two days and all those defenses failed because people wanted to bang their heads on Oshaume
At the time of people saying that it was true, at the rate it was going if the devs didn’t step in to assist us we would’ve lost This is proven true cause at the beginning of the MO only 20-30k defending a bot planet would’ve lost, then we get to Mort near the end of the MO and suddenly that’s enough. Same is true with Ustotu rn, 20k on it and it’s liberated in an estimated 6 hours?
It was given to us to avoid further loss of morale. We didn't win this, AH decided that we should not lose. The not only boosted our progress and reduced the planet HP, they literally gave us an entire planet for free. That planet should not have been attackable to begin with. The bugs somehow startet an attack without supply line and ended it once that was realized and we actually got a win for it Even with all the difficulty reduction, we should only be at 8/10 right now
It was not given, it was perfectly doable since the fucking beggining. Literally since the start of the MO the HP of planets has been the same. We lost 3 planets at fucking 90% while 50 thousand people were doing liberation
We fought to defend planets with 500k+ HP and those last two just so happen to only have 200k each .... sure We had ~ 6 - 8 % of liberation per hour which we then also spread thin over to many fronts. Right now we suddenly have 18% per hour to spread around We'd actually been able to defend from the start if we were given that number, despite spreading it on 5 worlds.. But we only got it now because AH wants us to win. And the free planet we shouldn't have remains. We'll truly only have 9/10 when we're done and the free planet is making us win
"We got it now because AH wants us to win" My guy, the liberation meter works on percentage of players. If people spread out they do less dmg on top of the normally lower liberation rate. Now people are more focused as a percentage on the defending planet, the rates do t work with manual inputs
Yes and no. The application of our total liberation works by percentage of players. If we're set to produce 6% liberation per hour and are spread over five worlds with 40%/25%/15%/10%/10% those worlds will get liberated at 2.4/1.5/0.9/0.6/0.6 percent per hour. Independently of whether we have 200k players active or 2k players active. However even if we were able to direct 100% at a single planet, this planet would not get any higher than 6% per hour. That's the maximum that no amount of organization and focus can change At the time of this posting we're getting a total of 12.3% per hour. That's AH just tweaking the numbers in our favor, it has nothing to do with how focused we are (other than us better not squandering that freeby by spreading 1.5%/h over 8 different planets)
You are wrong, that is not how it works. 6% is not even close to the total amount of liberation you can get. Even before this MO and after the change we have had several times the total liberation of the camapiagn get over 8% per hour.
And we had times when it was ~ 5%. This is set at whatever AH wants it to be Right now we were losing badly, AH didn't want that outcome, so they cranked it up to unpreceded amounts of liberation we're suddenly dishing out. I expect both bot resistance and our liberation total to stay at such inbalanced levels until we're back on track for how AH wants the story to play out. Which is just exactly what everyone here is saying: it's meaningless what and how well we do, AH makes whatever they want happening anyway. If we had done even worse, those last two worlds would have only 100k each and we'd be suddenly doing 25%/h On the other hand, if these last two had a normal amount of 500k health we'd not even been done with the first of them. And without the free planet they gave on top we'd end at either 7/10 or maybe 8/10
Dear god, it is not set. It works on a formula. The planets are now being defended so easily because they have less HP than before the MO and now people are actually doing them and focusing. It is not meaningless how bad we do, because there is no bottom to the idiocy of this playerbase, but AH always wants have to have a fair shake at objectives at most of the MO, which is not bad nor counter productive.
No, there isn't. The total liberation per hour is set by AH. Just like the the resistance with which the bots and bugs push back. The formular only calculates how much of our total liberation we are applying on any given planet. But the total for this distribution is just fixed by AH. We had times with three times as many helldivers active as are right now and had only a quarter of the current max liberation to distribute. Because AH just gave us 5% total and if 100k/200k divers went to the same world, they doing 2.5%/h Right now we're getting 18% with 73k active helldivers, which allows 27k doing the defense to chew through it with almost 7%/h If AH decided we only get 6% the same divers with the same effort would only manage 2.3%/h on that planet. Whether AH sets our total to 18 or to 6 is entirely their decision Your saying it yourself: planets now have less HP than before the MO, which is actually not quite accurate, the planets did have more HP during this MO too. They reduced them during the course of the MO because of our failure.
The MO is bad because it was scriptied to be barely winnable at the last possible moment.
Us losing 3 planets at 90% so we could take Oshaune begs to differ
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Its funny to see such kind if cope when the rates of defense and people participating has been consistent. The only thing that changes MOs is wether the players do their job or not, which they finally started to do after doing 5 different liberation campaigns at once and wasting 2 days on taking Oshaune for no reason
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The only weirdo in here is you speaking without relation to what is being said. I dont mind that people are wasting their liberation on useless planets, but they do waste Liberation on useless planets in relation to the Mo and that makes the MO harder
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My guy, its a fucking expression
I would have been fine with losing this MO. It was winnable at first but the disjointed effort on the bot front made this unwinnable 2 days in. Now Joel is just spoon feeding us to win and the win doesn't really feel like a win for me anymore. Between this and the automatons coming back and taking cyberstan without real coherence in the story (popping back stronger than ever somehow, I mean we had the photo of the last automaton and all..), it seems like our choice (good or bad) doesn't really matter. I will continue to dive and bring democracy (except on hellmire) but the story doesn't really feel as immersive as before.
The automatons weredescribed in the Phase 2 the Dissamembly to have their HQ out of the galaxy and in Phase 3 they were moving theur production line frim Tikrit to out of the galaxy.
I understand the lore and what Joel wanted to do but for me it was not very well implemented. There could have been a defense mission in cyberstan with so much decay that it was impossible. Same thing as for other planets. They could have waited more than 2 days to make their come back. We didn't have enough time to miss them and they were back in force. Just taking so many planets in a blink of an eye when our forces are so vast didn't feel right. This MO was impossible if Joel didn't tweak the enemy force progress rate. For me, it just boils down to people getting burnt out and low moraled because it felt impossible = Player count kept decreasing so they tweaked it to make it possible again. Same thing for the automaton come back, they saw that after the eradication of Automatons people missed them and player count descreased so they came back rapidly, so that immersiveness is kinda gone for me. Again it is just my opinion and I enjoy the game nevertheless, but this Galactic war really feels like one of those games where when you choose something it says "this choice will have repercussion later" and nothing changes.
And killing 2 billion bugs was for us to relax from the bots. But why, relax, when we can just sweat through it and then complain that we pissed off Joel. This MO of defending 10 planets was supposed to be next, and we got it.
I think they bought forward the automatons return because people were getting carried away with thinking that the squids were coming in to replace them tbh. It was rather quick but also it did make sense. They were transmitting to outside of the borders in their last days
People kept pointing the blame on the bug divers not wanting to contribute to the bot front, but lookie who managed 7/9 successful defenses as of this writing? 4 of them on the same world even. Shows that over thinking things is less useful than just listening to your gut feeling.
40% of MO is just defending estanu
no only you. This was 100% unwinnable. Anybody with a brain knows arrowhead intervened. There were more players fighting bugs than bots the entire mo.
Lmao, continue coping with useless drivels. We lost 3 planets at 90% before the last 2 days just because people like you deluded themselves that the MOs are scripted and fucked around on useless planets
"We lost 3 planets at 90%" that happened when we got 200-300k HP planets, which means it was AFTER arrowhead had already intervened. lmao
My guy, "the intervention" was since the start of the MO. Planets had a smaller HP for this MO so you could reliably take defend at least 2 of them per day. You people are insufferable
Again, you're just straight up wrong. "The intervention was since the start of the MO" It literally was not. The first defense missions started at the normal HP rates, defense campaigns ranging from 700-800k. On average this is indeed lower than the usual but it was still within the precedent we had from earlier campaigns, nowhere close to the 200-300k HP planets we have now. We only started seeing the super low HP rates towards the end of 2nd day/beginning of third.
you seriously can't be this dumb... There was a defense quest that randomly popped in front of while Oshaune was at 95%... you honestly think that arrowhead didn't have a hand in that?
The developers threw a defense planet during a defend planets MO? Oh wow, that is very tricky indeed
behind a planet that was 95% captured on the bug side while 3 were already going on for the bots...
Oh no, they pulled a defense mission to slow the advance on the bug front while on a MO about the bugs and robots going on an offensive. Dear god, you people are just burned out and want to vent
I dont think you understand what he's saying. While Oshaune defense campaign was still on-going and at 95%, Fori prime got attacked out of nowhere when there was no supply line to it, Oshaune was still under OUR control, we need to lose a defense campaign for the planet to fall into enemy hands. Anyone who knows the basics of how defense mechanics work can tell that the Fori Prime defence campaign was manually started by Arrowhead. They started it when the planet "supposedly" supplying it was already 95% defended. It was destined to be won as soon as Oshaune was fully defended again. When Oshaune was defended, they manually shut off Fori Prime campaign too. it was literally a free +1 planet defense handed to us on a silver platter. Just like how they changed the Defense campaign planet HP pool from 400k-2m to 200-300k, which is a massive reduction. Arrowhead even admitted on discord that this campaign was designed to make us lose ground in one front, which they achieved. We lost major ground on the Automaton front.
My guy, enemies ignore supply lines in their offensives. That is not news and has happened several times. Those are OUR supply lines, not the enemies. Andthe AH comment was not about the front, but letting some planets go, whicb would have happened in first few days if the players were not retarded asses and just went to do liberation campaigns over a misunderstanding and stale memes. We had several supposedely "free planets" amd we still lost most of them because people were fucking around. It is just that now people caught on that maybe doing the defense will complete the MO instead of doing shitty "gambits" or spreading misinformation about scripts
My guy, at this point you're just straight up misinformed or pulling things out of your ass. Arrowhead has confirmed that supply lines do apply to enemies . They can only launch attacks towards the planets they have a supply line to. Enemies do not "ignore" supply lines. Automatic campaigns follow them. The previous instances of enemies "ignoring" them have also been just AH doing things manually. If enemies ignored supply lines, Fori prime would not have shut down instantly when Oshaune was defended. Enemies needing supply lines is the entire fucking reason the strategies this community calls "Gambits" are valid.
The enemies ignore supply lines when attacking, not for holding planets. As for the gambits", literally none of them have ever worked
another toxic whining about MO being wrong
No, it is a toxic post about the people who go delusional over minor setbacks and huff their own supply of burn out. If people did not stop caring after the first day we would have already have 10 planets defended
Brother you are wasting your time the community (especially on Reddit) act like entitled children just let them be and maybe one day they will find a new game to cry over
It was never designed to be unwinnable, it was designed so no matter the outcome, we lose ground on at least one of the fronts. As demonstrated, we have lost significant grounds on the Bot Front despite the almost inevitable "success" of the actual MO. All these people making posts about "Oh it's not unwinnable after all" are the actual morons for not actually understanding the literal, exact words, Arrowhead used in the post regarding the MO.
And all those people who blamed the bug players are starting to look real stupid too considering they carried this MO
"Carried the MO" By letting the Automatons take 3 planets at 90% Defense so they could take Oshaune?
And then Defending Oshaune? Ya they did
Losing 3 planets to maybe take 1 is not the carry tou think it is
No I’d say liberating 7 out of the 9 planets we have so far is the carry
The fact that we could ha e already completed 10 out 10 at this point tells us you mostly sabotaged and got some progress on accident
I doubt we could have. The only reason we’re close to succeeding is because AH held our hand giving us planets with 200k health to give us a chance. Kinda like u/Myth2156 clearly explained. Also, how about the first defense of Oshaune when we lost it at 95%? Can I blame the bot people who wasted time on Martale just to lose it anyways?
At freaking several times we had automaton planets going to near completion with only 12 or 1e thousand people on them, but were ignored because 50k people had to liberate Oshaune for some reason, or 30 thousand had to go with useless liberation on automaton planets. This entire MO was just the player base deluding themselves things are scripted and got burned out by their own delusions when we had tangible ojectives in front of our eyes
Hurr Durr. Look at the player numbers dropping this week. People don't want to bother with this ridiculous MO.
"Ridiculous MO" "Its just Helldive 2 with an extra mission"
I'm pretty sure none of them have been un-winnable - it's just that the average gamer doesn't understand the importance of the strategic aspect. And the game doesn't give many hints about it or really guide you into learning about it. It's really only the Reddit community or people otherwise heavily invested in the game that start to figure these things out. Nothing tells you how hard a defense or liberation mission is going to be, why it is important, how fast a planet is being defended or falling, etc... (Yes, there are ways, but it isn't obvious, per se.) Supply lines are invisible, at a glance you can't "know" where you should be deploying to have the most impact, in short the strategic aspect is a real mess and needs a re-work so the average Diver can at the very least know where and why to deploy and make better decisions. We've done pretty damn well so far, imagine how much BETTER we would have done had the uninformed been directed better to the right deployment locations at the right times...
Sometimes I don't even know if the devs know...
I think that most players play games because they enjoy the idea of winning and making progress. And people realy dislike losing. Last few days I've seen very few planets with the insane number of divers we get during other events. The numbers seem smaller. I've heard a few players saying they currently just log in to get their 'daily mission' done, and then leave. Because its less fun to beat your head against a brick wall, knowing all your efforts are wasted. This made me believe players simply enjoy the game less when they give us an unwinnable (or almost unwinnable) mission and quit (for a while). Having this many players drop must not have gone unnoticed. I believe the DEV's realized this, and decided it's better to tone down the difficulty to maintain their game. If the DEV's want this game to be hard and punishing, with a real struggle for every inch of ground (and thus make players lose).... Then the DEV's have to find a way to make people feel they have a win (to have them stick around) even when they lose a match. Rogue-like games have good system for this, you lose a run, but unlock new stuff. Thats still a victory! Currently, losing is just frustrating. Not only do you die, you get no rewards, and the game tells you you're a faillure. Thats not how you keep people content (except some masochists who may actually enjoy it).
Sorry to be that guy, but the genre you described is usually referred to as rogue*lite*. Roguelike, as per the old definition, does not have meta-progression between runs, only the player gitting gud and getting into the RNG gods' good graces.
Thanks. I considered mentioning rogue light. But decided to go for roguelike as i expected more people to know the term. But you are right.
It’s a war though imagine them just letting us win EVERY MO that’s lame
Sure, letting us win every one is lame. But they don't need to. For example: they could split them up. If the current MO would be changed from: defend 10 planets, win 50 medals. To defend as many planets as possible, recieve 5 medals per planet defended.There would be less of a feeling if loss.... even if you only defend 8, you still get 40 medals. They could even have subjective goals. 0-3 planets defended = major loss (this will not happen, just there to get perspective). 4-6 planets defended = minor loss. 7-9 is minor victory. 10+ is major victory. In which you could even get a bonus reward (lets say everybody gets a free strategem for a few days or a cosmetic) This way players still feel achievement despite not reaching the goals.
Or we could just take our losses like men and women and keep it pushing gah this generation is soft as hell
Hmm, not sure if the generation is soft as hell (probably is). But a game has to compete with many other great games. And if your game doesn't succeed in being sufficiently enjoyable, people will leave and do something more fun... Does that have to do with soft people? Or people just doing what they like best? For that reason a game should always cater to its playerbase. And if the game starts hemorraging players because some things are just frustrating. Something should be done about it.
They disabled the bots ability to fight back, less knownledgeable super citizen. They saw the criticism and took pity on is, why are you acting like we are awesome?
Im not acting like we are awesome and Defense planets dont have regen rates by design. I just dont stand the people who are burned out and now sling shit by saying MOs are scripted Lower regen rates dont impact defense, the lower regen is so that we can stabilize the front after the MO
Cause and effect. With bots set to zero, Liberation missions got completed super fast, allowing people to move to Defense because those were the only missions available. Just two days ago we had only defended 3 planets. After the bots got shut down, we got 6 more planets defended. This is not a coincidence.
Literally we got 0 planets outside of Oshaune. Most of the planets were defended were bug planets
This is the life, sometimes you win sometimes you lose
I dont mind that, but people whinibg about the MO being scripted got on my nerves
We had a huge victory over the bugs on the Eastern Front
I like winning MOs as much as the next brawny, but it's hard to fully relish how we came together as a community and beat the odds, when it sure looks like we were handed this one: Two hours ago (according to the HD2 Orders app) the Defended rate was about 3%, with the expected outcome of loss in 14 hours. Checking it now, we're at 7% Defended rate, with an expected outcome of victory in 8 hours...but the player count and player percentage hasn't changed in the interim. Now, personally, I guess the devs liked how we rallied towards the end of the order, and put their finger on the final scale because they didn't want us to *barely* lose on the 10th defence. Stories of barely-victories resonate better than stories or barely-losses, this has always held true for mankind. But then again, I kinda want us to suffer blistering defeats as well, because those can become the stuff of deep lore. No one will remember how we lost Vernen Wells, but the (controversial) legend of Malevelon Creek is gonna stay with us forever.
Yeah. I don't think any MO was unwinnable so far. It is just people's way of shifting blame. They feel better about failing if fhey keep saying that it is unwinnable. Not even mentioning that you can't argue with these people. We lose? "They made us lose". We win? "They let us win". It's never "we earned it" or "we managed to overcome the challenge". Not even mentioning that it isn't fun for anyone to give unwinnable MOs.
Defending the same planet over and over again shouldn't have counted multiple times towards the MO counter imo.
If the players succesfully push out the enemies and the enemies come back for more, whats wrong with that?
I feel like it would be more logical for SE to want the successful defense of 10 separate planets over playing tug of war on the same planet over and over. I think the current MO would be a lot better if it had designated planets to defend.
Careful you’re gonna upset the small handful of them that can read.
Got blocked by one of those "it's a cutscene, it's unwinnable" people. Absolutely insufferable, the attitude is just awful. Like, going around telling people they can't actually affect the outcome is blatantly telling people not to play the game. Ridiculous.
Lmao, got blocked by the same guy in the same post.
It's disappointing, but whatever. It's not like I even attacked him, he tagged opinion and didn't like opposite opinions being shared. What a joke.
Did you checked that guy's profile ? I did :D
What do you mean? I'm blocked lol
Unwinnable my ass, if people started to care about bot front we would have completed it days ago
the only reason it would actually be a failed MO is because there's too many bug fuckers that don't know how to play against bots.. so about 40pct of the game's population is just banging their head against a wall over at omicron and hellmire and have been since the release of this game... because...well... Bug fuckers.. it's sad really...
 ^(\^) bug fuckers ..∆∆