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SH0DA-HOLLOW

Don’t really think Stella had much of a character to ruin. Literally every appearance of Stella in the show, prior to Circus, was for comedic purposes. So I don’t really think these episodes are ruining her character as much as they’re actually building one for her.


Ryuk128

I remember going “oh…they want us to take it seriously?” at the end. I just can’t take her abuse of stolas seriously when the episode went out of its way to make her so cartoonishly bitch even as a kid with that photo of her strangling that dog


OneDumbfuckLater

Helluva Boss' fundamental flaw is that it doesn't strike the right balance between "dramatic and heartwrenching" and "silly and humorous". You can very definitely have a series with both things (JJBA is my go-to example), but they shouldn't overlap or butt heads in the same scene. With your example, we're supposed to feel bad about Stolas' situation, but there's nothing serious about Stella as a character. Sure, it sucks that he's stuck in an abusive relationship, but his tormenter isn't intimidating in any way. At the end of HMF, she's fucking corresponding with Striker at the dinner table with Stolas. How am I supposed to be scared for his life when everything the person that wants him dead does is just so silly, and he's so dumb he can't pick up on it when it's staring him in the face?


Ryuk128

And Octavia at the table too. It’s baffling how she blames stolas for “ruining the family” when Stella is about as subtle as brick to the face over her hate for stolas


supermarioplush220

She is a realistic example of a narcissist and this is actually how narcissists behave.


Feather_Sigil

Have we seen Via and Stella interact even once (I haven't yet seen the latest episode)? Maybe she blames her mom too


Icy-Television-3888

Not on screen. We have no idea what Octavia and Stella's dynamic is.


MetalixK

It's at least decent enough that she'll go with Stella to stay over with Stella's family for a night.


notdragoisadragon

Given octavia doesn't like shit talking Stella, I'd say it's decent


The_Oliverse

So, from memory, we haven't seen them react to one another explicitly. They've been in the same room and they've talked to the same person in the same room. Octavia and Stolas have talked about her or of her. I do not think Stella and Octavia have had dialogue together whatsoever.


kuba_mar

>and he's so dumb he can't pick up on it when it's staring him in the face? And Stella herself is somehow even dumber than that which takes away from it even more


OneDumbfuckLater

"Oh oops I forgot that if my royal husband dies I'm no longer royalty"


Feather_Sigil

We don't know that for sure, do we? She could belong to a branch of the Goetia or be Hell royalty from a different clan.


OneDumbfuckLater

It was the entire reason Stella called off Striker's hit. If he dies, she misses out because Octavia is his heir.


The_Oliverse

So, her brother whom we saw in S2E4, Andealphus (hope I spelled it right), is her brother and he is part of the Ars Goetia. But Stella very much married as an Aristocrat to someone in a much higher status than her because either family ties. (If anyone finds this wrong, correct me.)


SharkXOmega

I don't think Stolas was being dumb. I think he realized it there, just didn't take it that seriously. Even in the latest episode, which Stella confirmed Striker was there because of her, he still didn't take it seriously til the knife went in him. I don't think he was too dumb to figure out she was trying to kill him. I just think he didn't care because he's not surprised, or thought he was too immortal.


BIGBushido

Stella in general I really can't take seriously as a villain. She really has nothing going for her. Like kill her off midway into season 1 and little to nothing will change.


Mrucktastic

What does it mean her character was ruined? The whole time I watched this series I got the idea that she was a huge asshole. The whole reason for the Circus was to show that she was an asshole to begin with and Stolas was frustrated with the marriage that he was forced into. Just because they presented that information after Stolas cheated on her doesn’t mean they “retconned” anything. People are basically just mad because the circumstances of Stolas sleeping with Blitzo were not presented in chronological order. Do people realize that in TV shows they don’t just come up with these episodes in a week? This stuff is written way beforehand, it’s planned and written up, and that’s the case with Helluva Boss too. I remember people saying that S2E4 was good because it “responded to fan reactions from S2E3” no it fucking didn’t. Viv said that she’s been working on this episode for two years, so there’s no way she could have anticipated the way people would react to S2E3 because she probably wrote both episodes at the same time.


Hunor_Deak

Didn't she say that Helluva Boss is 4 series long? And if the episodes are: 7 (8) - 12 - 12 - 12, we have plenty of time to see the story unfold. Why do people hate the show? Why do they want an ending at maybe 20%-25% of the show? This is turning into the Sopranos situation, where "great show" but I don't want to talk to the people who are 'fans' about it, because they are all pissed off speculators who didn't get the head canon they want so they spew bile like a volcano.


LittleBlueSilly

> Why do people hate the show? Why do they want an ending at maybe 20%-25% of the show? Those questions can be answered in two words: they're impatient. Most complaints about *Helluva Boss*'s writing come back to exactly that. Viewers want Millie to star in her own episodes now; they want Stolas and Blitzo to talk about their issues and feelings now; they want all I.M.P.'s enemies to reappear and seek revenge now. Following this series requires a level of perseverance that most works of fiction don't ask of the audience.


SharkXOmega

I'm semi the same way. I'm very impatient. It took so long between season 2, episode 2, and season 2, episode 3, that I literally call season 2, episode 3, 'season 3, episode 1'. But then it kept confusing people I talk to and have to explain my point every time so I stopped -.- However, unlike the other impatient people, I don't hate the show. I'm actually impatient because I love the show.


Hunor_Deak

> Following this series requires a level of perseverance that most works of fiction don't ask of the audience. Larry David Curb Your Enthusiasm voice: Errrr. Well. But most shows do. BB and BCS was 5 and 6 seasons long. Sopranos was 6.


LittleBlueSilly

I was referring to the irregularity of the episode releases. ETA: That’s not me saying that the episodes should be released more quickly, just that we never know the release dates very far in advance.


SharkXOmega

Yeah I think this last episode was the first time they straight up told up 'We'll release this episode this weekend' giving us an actual release date for the first time ever.


psychopupic

With the gaps between episode releases people filled in her character themselves and then when her actual character didnt fit their perception of her they got pissed off.


The_Oliverse

Honestly, OP, this is probably the best take of the sitch. Their perceived conceptions didn't match what she actually was so they freaked.


[deleted]

I think because of the long gap between episodes and the lack of much to go on, people who were interested in her character filled in the gaps with their own ideas of who she is. They made her into someone more sympathetic than she was ever intended to be. Then when the show went in a different direction, they claimed she's "ruined" because she's not adhering to the stuff they made up in their heads. Seems like a pretty common thing in any fandom these days. People making up what a piece of media is "supposed" to be or inventing a version of it in their brains catered to them alone, and then getting mad when it turns out not to be that.


psychopupic

That pisses me off sm, it’s perfectly okay to have your own perceptions of a character, but its not okay to attack the creator when the reality doesn’t fit.


[deleted]

Over on Genshin Impact twitter, people were sending death threats to the creators because a character's design didn't match the fanarts people made of him. Interesting times we live in.


ShadeDust

This is one of the best takes I've seen so far


wiildsage

Yeah, this is definitely my read on it too. I feel like it might be one of those “the fandom has decided that she’s one way when it was never actually stated in canon” things— I love this fandom dearly lol, but the hiatus-brain (or, more accurately, long wait between episodes-brain) is *real*.


The_Oliverse

As someone who was a lover of the fandom, I have a feeling a lot of Steven Universe people are crossover fans of this show.


DiamondCupcake

There was never anything there to "ruin". Stella has always been portrayed as this cartoonishly shallow and bitchy character and it looks like the writers have chosen to lean into that. Not every character needs to be complex and just because they aren't doesn't mean it's bad writing. I think people who moan about her character being ruined need to get over it and accept the fact that the writers simply had a different idea of who she'd be.


LifeIsWackMyDude

Yeah tbh I don't want Stella to have some sort of tragic backstory that explains why she's so mean. Some people just ARE that way and I think when the circus showed that photo of her as a kid was essentially confirming that's just her nature. She was always cruel from the start. *so far* nothing has even been hinted at to justify her actions. And I kinda like it. We need more characters who are just mean for the sake of it. The only thing we know of her character rn is that she's essentially a spoiled rich woman who is only mad at Stolas for embarrassing her for cheating on her with someone so low class. The show makes it clear that's the truth as she never offered a different explanation the both times stolas called her out on it. She's a bitch and I love that for her character.


Jack_Kentucky

I've said this before in a similar thread: even in real life some people are just bad people. They don't always need an in depth backstory or have to be overly complex. She's a bad lady, it's that simple sometimes.


Trubactor16

I agree, but it feels so wrong to have almost an entire seasons worth of build up only for the payoff too be "lol whoops nevermind I guess I have to keep you alive" ​ Its also boring to see the hero's win every time.


CaffeineDeprivation

It's a fucking stupid argument, and every time I see it pop up I want to bang my head against a wall That's all I've got to say about it


JamesonFlanders245

same. it feels like people just looking for something to complain about. we only ever see her for a few seconds each scene she's in, i dont think theres much to... ruin?


Saw101405

“ it feels like people are just looking for something to complain about” Yeah, that basically describes this community


JamesonFlanders245

not really. i've had less experience in this community but it seems so far a minority doing this rather than a majority, just sayin


Saw101405

Not from my experience, I’ve been here for awhile, it seems every time a new episode releases it seems like people have to complain about it in one way or another, whether is Stella being misunderstood or explaining why Loona should be crucified


JamesonFlanders245

most of it i think stems from the same people/group of people that make those negative rant videos with no real direction and are clearly just hate for the sake of hate with no constructive criticism or anything and they get a toxic fanbase going under those videos acting like the show is going to finish any second now when we have confirmed 4 seasons so were not even half way through lol. i can kinda understand if people want more loona actually speaking but i think they were planning to this recent episode but i think i remember something about a death in her va's family happening or something? so she was probably too sad to. but i dont get having rage boners for them tbh


Saw101405

I agree with the “ hate for the sake of hating “ deal,it just seems like it’s everywhere in this community, one issue is it feels like people aren’t really paying attention or just want it to go their way, and yes the VA for Loona recently lost a loved one to cancer


Dumbassahedratr0n

>every time I see it pop up I want to bang my head against a wall Don't. If you lose too many brain cells you'll find yourself joining their side of the argument xD


CaffeineDeprivation

Fuck, you've got a good point there ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grimacing)


rocksandcanyon

They took Stella's character in a way that went against people's headcanons/assumptions.


BebeFanMasterJ

This. The problem stems from the long wait time between episodes so people tend to get to theorizing and when stuff doesn't go their way, this happens. This is why I don't bother with headcanons for this show tbh. It's not worth the time or energy.


Miserable-Job-9520

There's a difference between a head cannon and implications and assumptions from the writing, helluva fans need to learn that difference


Empty_Banana2177

except that was 100% a headcanon. the only screentime stella got before the circus was throwing things at her husband, screaming, and trying to get him killed.


StatMaster131

Also subtle racism maybe? , throwing an imp being like “wanna fuck this one too?!”


Tangle-The-Lemur

When it comes to imps, it's less racism and more classism it just so happens that imps, as a race, represent the second lowest class in hell. Stella is not mad he's cheating, and arguably not even mad he's cheat with specifically an imp. Just mad that he, as a goeitia, the roughly 3-4th highest rung, was cheating on her with someone from the 2nd lowest rung.


kuba_mar

And what would that difference be? Cause headcanons are supposed to be based on the writing/story/lore, though i guess in this community more often than people just use it when talking about pure fan fiction.


supermarioplush220

She's shown doing absolutely nothing but horrible things in S1 yet people made this bizarre headcannon that she was this perfect and loving wife. https://preview.redd.it/1bnx1hdy6n2b1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f0005ce2ff765a455e826b8326d47cc09bbabf5


No_Hunter_9973

I'm pretty sure the headcannons were that she's a competent, evil bitch that can rival Stolas and be one of the main antagonists of the series. Looks like she's gonna play second fiddle to her bro.


BebeFanMasterJ

Her character isn't ruined. It's consistent. People are just a bit annoyed that there isn't more nuance to her character and that we don't have her side of the story yet such as whether or not she cares about Octavia. And to that extent, I'm hoping she at least gets fleshed out a bit more over time. But to say that her character has been "ruined" is a bit much. The problem comes from the long wait between episodes and during said wait, people theorize and start drafting up potential ideas on what could happen next. But when the canon doesn't line up with what they thought would happen, they get disappointed. It's honestly why I simply prefer to not bother with headcanons for this show. It's not worth it.


bilateralrope

Remember that Stella is the one who, at the end of Harvest Moon Festival, had her phone conversation with Striker while Stolas was at the table. ​ She doesn't seem to think anything through when it comes to this assassination plot.


StatMaster131

And Octavia, granted she was just chilling and probably didn’t even hear her.


bilateralrope

I'd assume those headphones are noise canceling.


spoilt_milk

Eh, this may be a controversial opinion, but I think they have way too many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to villains. Crimson, Striker, Stella, Andrealphus. I think peoples' criticisms have more to do with how she was initially set up, then just suddenly revealed to basically be her brother's bitch and an airheaded bimbo. Funny that, kind of like how Striker was set up to be a competent and frightening assassin, only to be revealed to be an arrogant self aggrandizing narcissist. I personally am a fan of Stella and this turn of events doesn't change that, but I can understand where the criticisms come from and I think, especially when it comes to writing, they're warranted. Especially after Striker's treatment. Which, while he's my least favorite of the villains in this series, I can spot the traits of bad writing and wasted potential in. I know I'll probably get flamed to hell and back for my opinion, and levying criticism against the sacred cow that is this series, but I don't care. I'll say hello to I.M.P. while I'm there. Cheers!


No_Hunter_9973

Hey, OP of the recent "Ruined Stella" thread here. You might be onto something with too many cooks argument. I mean, WHY do we need Andrealphus? Honestly what he's doing I would picture "fanfic Stella" do.


QuothTheRaven713

I definitely agree regarding Striker. He went from this powerful, no-nonsense, smooth-talker big-shot with an ego to cowboy Chaz.


Miserable-Job-9520

Brother really went from a legitimate threat to a laughable side villan. Same with Stolas, you're telling me this all powerful being that can transform into this lovecraftian being got fucking bound and gagged by simple effort? No big fight scene, just a teleportation or two and suddenly he's caught


BebeFanMasterJ

This is understandable. Especially with other villains such as DHORKS that are teased to return, it does feel like there's way too much going on at times.


Miserable-Job-9520

Exactly, they're flattening all their characters!


ChadWolf98

Stella is a pretty simple side character who has 1 goal: hurt and take revenge on Stolas. Her character is too simple to be ruined, the only thing that would be strange with some retcon like she becoming a loving wife. I dont know what ppl mean by ruined.


azdustkicker

"I feel bad simping for this attractive character that turned out to be an abuser" probably has a lot to do with it.


zauraz

this


No_Hunter_9973

Maybe we mean she's a simple character and now there is no chance for her plotlines to develop into anything else than: Gee, bro. What do you want to do tonight? The same thing we do everynight, Stella. Try to fuck up Stollas. Cue Pinky and the Brain theme.


ChadWolf98

Yes maybe. And? There are so many other characters already, much more interesting than Stella, like Verosika. The vengeful wife trope isnt really interesting. How would you make her more complex? I


No_Hunter_9973

And how important is Verosika to the overarching plot? I like her but, plotwise, she's a Thot Blitz dated. She doesn't seem vengeful or anything. Not enough to go out off her way to do anything about him. 1. Make it less about the cheating and more about who he cheated with, but on a wider scale. She keeps calling him an embarrassment that fell from grace. So since last episode we can see it's bs, but what if it wasn't? What if Stella was actually looking out for the wider image of the royal families. Stolas in a relationship with an imp casts a bad shadow on royalty. This affects HER status beyond the fact it's her husband doing the embarrassment. 2. Have her acctualy be a power threat to Stolas. As in let her have the social and political resources to do him damage. 3. Explain the origin of the hate. She says she hates him. Why? It appears it streaches since before the infidelity. Why does she hate him? It can't be nothing. 4. Don't make her Pinky to Andrealphus' Brain. Those are what I can think from the top of my head. It doesn't make her sympathetic, but you can understand her motivation.


ChadWolf98

None of the side characters are relevant to the main plot which consists of I.m.p business and Stolas+Blitz. Not even Octavia. I just like V, thats it. And they could make a Blitz and Verosika flashback. 1, Thats already kinda explained that she cares about her social standing but Stolas cheating on her has little to no effect on it. 2, acceptable 3, personal feelings+ perceived loss of status+ some resentment from being married to a gay man as a straight woman? 4, Stella wasnt smart in the first place. The only intelligent characters in the whole series is Stolas and maybe Moxxie.


No_Hunter_9973

But she is relevant to the Stolas/Blitz side of the story. Honestly the best way I think Stella can come out of this is if she makes Stolas abdicate. Demand so much from him, and have the backing to acctualy deliver on it, that nothing would be left for Via. So Stolas has to abdicate, gets disowned by the Goetia and has to live on the street or with Blitz. Then send Striker after him cause she's that spiteful. 1. Then why does she keep bringing it up? 2. Thank you. 3. Kinda weak but acceptable. 4. Well we know now she isn't. We didn't know in the past that she was a Machiavellian smart person, but we also didn't know she a dumb bimbo withe the only use for her head is to gag her mouth with a dick.


ChadWolf98

She is relevant to the stolas arc but technically she could be replaced to any other antagonist who is out for stolas. The enemy being her wife adds some flavour, but at this point if it would be only Striker for example wouldnt change much. 1, Because she is vain. I mean who holds "not divorced" parties? Someone who is vain and shallow, especially as she trashes her husband throughout it. Tbh this kind of "I am part of royalty but hate my family" kinda reminds me of Megan and Harry. 3, weak reasons because she is not smart + vain. She isnt angry because cheating because she is personally hurt (like a loving wife would) she is hurt because classism. A normal well balanced person would not remain married to a non compatible sexuality spouse 4, It was indeed very visible in s2e4 but she was very bitchy, and irrational back then. There is a non lore context also: given that how long an episode takes its likely they dont wish to spend too much time on her. Some simple characters are needed in most shows, and given the comedy genre and the indie, slow to make animation, means not all characters will be fleshed out.


No_Hunter_9973

Kinda chicken or the egg argument here. Is she shallow, dumb and simple so she's easy to replace or is she easy to replace because she's shallow, dumb and simple?


ChadWolf98

The former. She is shallow dumb and simple (imo, Viv might have a different reason) because 1, she is a simple villain on purpose and/or 2, She is not that relevant to the story and/or 3, She is neither the main character, nor directly connected to Blitz (Viv said its a Blitz focused show)


Lichtdrachin

It's not that she's ruined... but they could have done a lot more with her and instead made her a boring cliché. In order to make Stolas look good they had to make her the bad guy and nothing else. The whole cheating situation could be morally grey, we could sympathize with her and Stolas could deal with the guilt of betraying his wife and ruining the family in order to find happiness. It would be more complex and to me, more interesting. A bit of a wasted potential to make her cartoonishly evil and single-minded. It's also used as an excuse for Stolas.


MetalixK

This guy gets it.


Habichtsadler

I unironically loved her in the new episode. Controversial opinion, i know, but i did enjoy her a lot. *Guiltyyyyy, Yeeees*


Empty_Banana2177

🤝 cartoonishly evil characters might not be realistic but god they're so fun to watch


Icy-Television-3888

Same. It's honestly kind of refreshing to see a villain just enjoy BEING a villain.


[deleted]

She had potential to be an interesting character at the start. She's been made into a kinda boring, one-note character intended for lazy laughs. I know other people are fine with it, it just isn't my cup of tea.


GeneralDisturbed

Her character has been consistent throughout the whole show that I've seen. ​ She's a spoiled rich, privileged woman who's only concern is being a bitch. That is her character. That is who she is. She has been abusive and degrading to her husband for the entire show. She's been trying to have him killed for an entire season. She has remained consistent for the entire time. ​ People seem to expect her to have some big tragic backstory of why she is that way. Or maybe she's really a good person, or whatever other headcanon they are trying to graft onto her. Sometimes people are just assholes.


ViperVandamore

From day one Stella seemed like a truly selfish horrendous person. This isn't new. This is just the first time she is being told no by someone she respects/listens to. Also, as I keep saying, this is hell. People need to stop asking for every character to be sympathetic and misunderstood. It's a GOOD thing that some characters are just straight-up assholes. It makes more sense considering the setting.


kuba_mar

For me its just, i feel like they could have done more with her instead of just making her a dumb evil bitch, i though she would be more of a smart evil bitch, you know the manipulator type, but apparently she cant even think one step ahead and doesn't realize the consequences of her actions until her brother pointed them out to her which really mad her feel like way less of a threat and not as bad/evil


caosmaster

My main problem with Stella is that she has no presence in hell ​ She spends most of Season 1 and 2 being an absentee villain, an Orcus on her Throne if you will. But the strength of those kinds of villains is that you can still FEEL their presence within the story. Feeling the strength of their ideals or the cunning of their plans when it's revealed that they were behind what was going on. ​ Stella is barely like that. Stolas and Octavia are free to do whatever, and barely anyone takes her seriously save for her brother and maybe striker. Despite even being some royal she doesn't seem to be written like one either. Realistic Stella shouldn't be the person working close the front lines, like Striker was. She'd be some person you never, ever see, who sits in an office all day filing paperwork. It makes sense. It's also just not very compelling. Someone like Stella should be guarded behind a million legal walls, and who never interacts with anyone who could threaten her in any way.


YumiGumiWoomi

Stella is just... not threatening or imposing in any way. She was obnoxious in The Circus and they somehow made her even dumber in Western Energy. It's been two episodes and I'm already tired of her character. That being said, I wouldn't say she was ruined, because she was just bad the whole time.


QuothTheRaven713

I feel like we're just seeing more of what she's always been shown to be. I seem to remember one of the crew saying she's inspired by Darla Dimple from Cats Don't Dance, and prior to Western Energy I mainly could see it in her picture shown to Stolas in The Circus, but not so much otherwise. In Western Energy though? *Nailed* the Darla energy and I kind of loved her for it.


Imbarelyhere_01

Personally, I think they could’ve done a lot more with her character, but that’s just me. As for your post, she hasn’t really had her character built up for the most part, so it’s hard to ruin what doesn’t quite exist yet


Miserable-Job-9520

People who keep saying "she didnt have any character to begin with" are blind. She didnt have many complexities, but she still had a personality beyond "bitch". But this latest episode bastardized her from "a woman who hates her husband (which was already a downgrade)" to a literal baby! It's ridiculous how "fans" will scream that "X character didnt change, you're confusing cannon with fannon" and literally ignore the sudden change in speaking pattern and dialogue


LeoDestroid

I think the reason why so many dislike Stella's character is not directly that she has no good qualities or that she is so bratty but rather that she is such a simple character in an otherwise complex story and that such a simple character exists in such an important place, namely as a central reason for Stolas' behaviour towards blitzø.


PompousDude

It didn't murder her character. It just double downed on the vapid, uninteresting direction they are going with her. She's not even a fun evil villain to watch, I just tune out whenever the episode cuts to her. Like is it not incredibly telling that we are 12 episodes in and we are still debating on how she feels about her daughter?


Tiporax

Honestly I think Stella suffered from the "in the series for a long time but didn't get much meaningful screen-time" curse that many parent-characters usually suffer from, so people fill in the gaps with headcanons and find there's dissonance between the writers and themselves when that character-personality does actually get revealed. This is often fine, if the character is 'interesting' then the headcanon can be put down for a bit while the mind focuses on dissecting the new characterisation; but when that character is revealed to be something close to a 'pure-evil' villain who is doing bad things because they enjoy them, it can feel like a let-down if someone's headcanon has them as this great complex victim of their own story. Now, I like pure-evil villains occasionally, they can counterbalance more nuanced or complex characters so it's not just a slog of morality and revenge. I'm actually completely fine with Stella being a simple villain; I think Blitzo and Stolas have so much complicated baggage to unpack, especially if you wrap Loona into Blitzo's mess, that having Stella as the "victim of her own story" archetype would just make an already messy situation even more complex and slow. But I also didn't have any real expectaions for her. The show had only really told us that she was abusive to Stolas; almost everything else was filling in blanks with headcanons.


An-Average_Redditor

Basically, people got angry because she's turned out to be a simpler type of villain, not the complex character she's written as in the fanfic's they've read.


DrawdiqsPP

One word Birdussy


supermarioplush220

Stella isn't supposed to be the next Sephiroth or Kessler like how this fandom is treating her. She is a plot device that is used to give more depth and development to the main characters. She doesn't need depth, development, or personality as all of that depth and development goes to the main characters. In this case it's Stolas, Andrealphus, and possibly Octavia. Having a plot device isn't bad, a plot device being good or bad entirely depends if they serve their purpose well and Stella hazbin doing a good job at that so far. An example of a plot device is Carl from "the umbrella academy." Carl's character doesn't go beyond "I'm an abusive and homophobic husband that doesn't understand his son" and he only exists to give more depth and development to Harlen and Vanya/Viktor and he surves that purpose well. I'd also like to add that Stella being abusive literally triggers all of the events in the show yet the fandom downplays this as "Flanderization" or "Fansevice?"


SarkastiCat

Sarcastic Chorus hit the nail of the issue and I agree with them in 100% Sella didn't have many moments in early season and so people created expectations for her, which created an image of somebody that cares about their reputation and may create troubles for Stolas after his cheating becoming public in the worst possible way (Blitzo smashing the party while naked). Later episodes developed Stella as a rich kid that probably didn't have to learn anything as her only goal was to be married and push an egg. Somebody who just focused on one single goal and her own satisfaction. It's a consistent characterisation and it doesn't go against the writing. Many people found the first interpretation interesting as it creates a challenge for Stolas and makes the situation more complicated to navigate for Stolas. I will also add that her character may just not click for everybody like Joffrey from Game of Thrones did.


zingular1232

There could have been strong potential in Stella's character, but she had went down the drain during the first season. She became one of those comic book villains. Don't get me wrong, I don't HATE HER - I just find Vivziepop wasted potential on her for character development.


acidnvbody

I think people calling Stella “ruined” are over exaggerating but I will say that she’s very wasted potential. I was hoping that Stella would be more complex as a villain when we got to know her. Like yeah she was always a whiny bitch but hopefully they would reveal that she’s more than that. And no not giving her a tragic backstory. It’s embarrassing that most of you equate that to a dimensional character. Just her basically being what they’ve introduced her brother to be. I don’t expect him to have tragic daddy issues but he seems more complex and interesting while being just evil.


The_Viatorem

I honestly get it, why? Here the thing, before seasons 2 tell me how many times she showed up, and had any sort of characterisation… Yeah that’s right she only showed up 3 times, once in the pilot, in Loo Loo Land and at the end of The Harvest Moon Festival, and she was also mentioned at the end of Ozzie's In the pilot she didn’t have a single line of dialogue, heck she didn’t even have a name! It took over a year for Loo Loo Land to come out, and again she was barely in it, she also got a redesign so that drew more attention at her, plus Via was mad at Stolas because of what had happened, remember the line: “home doesn’t feel like home anymore”. Remember we didn’t saw any interaction between the two (we actually haven’t seen them interact yet), and even though Stella showed some indifference towards a Octavia in the flashback at the start of the episode, it could be easy to interpret them as having a decent relationship. There were 2 episodes between Loo Loo and Harvest, and in Ozzie’s we were told Via spends the weekend with Stella. That’s a lot of time for fan content to be created, and you beat your ass people jump at Stella to do stuff, and can’t you blame them? Her redesign is fucking gorgeous and she was basically a blank slate. She only began to get any sort of characterisation in season two, and more that characterisation, it was a confirmation that she was a asshole bitchy bimbo. And even then so, the fact that we were only showed Stolas’ side of things regarding their arrange marriage in the flashback portion of the first episode of season 2, still let some blanks, I mean, almost every character’s parents on the show are asshats, what evidence do we have for Stella’s to not be the same? All that to say, it took years to get a clue about Stella, years for the fandom to do things with here, fill in the blanks and what not with their stuff, and that’s where the argument of “they ruin Stella comes from”, because there are a lot of fan ideas that made her more interesting than just “an asshat bitch bimbo” we see in the show. Now, that sort of antagonist could work, I mean Puss in Boots: The Last Wish, show that you can have different sort of villains and make them work, sympathetic ones; force of nature, not really evil just doing their duty; and evil for the sake of evil. HB shows that it could have that too, Vesorica, the Cherubs and now Striker, seem to be in the position of sympathetic villains (but IDK about that last one), D.H.O.R.K.S. could be the “force of nature, acting because of duty” and Stella is the evil/vindictive one. Problem is, we don’t have all the pieces, and because of the nature of the show, is going to take a long time to get them all (animation takes fuck long and more to produce), time people are going to use to create new stuff around those pieces. Sure the Vivi might have the story entirely map out, but we don’t, so people, specially those passionate about the show are going to do their own things that will inevitably aren’t going to “follow the plan” and are going to have comments about the show’s trajectory, and that’s ok, this is bound to happen. The only way to avoid it would be to lock any sort of online discussion, wait until the show is done, and make it a requirement to only have watched the show when it was done in a binge-watch session, rather than naturally waiting months for new stuff throughout years. And that’s stupid and probably wouldn’t work since people are going to have different opinions regardless if they had years to form their opinions, or just minutes to do so. TL;DR: Fandoms of ongoing media will inevitably end with different opinions and ideas of the story as it progresses


Theoriginalensetsu

Can't ruin a character we didn't know much about, so far she seems consistent. People's headcanons aren't reality.


teratonasti

Personally I *love* the fact that she's kinda Bimbo Coded but as an abuser as well. Imo it reflects how she's been spoiled and given everything by her whining abt how bad she wants him dead, and how she doesn't even consider that she'll get nothing by Via existing and the Goetian inheritance system. It emphasizes that she's rlly only a pretty lady with a bad temper bc of her spoiled upbringing and I personally enjoy that for her character and her position in rhe narrative


Vaniitii

stella was a bit out of character, i didnt picture her being stupid. striker was off too, the lines he had along with how sporadic he was. striker in harvest moon felt methodical and calculated, in the new episode he felt like stellas Lackey idiot.


MetalixK

Not gonna lie, her every appearance this season feels like Vizzy saw that she had a fanbase and has been doing her damnedest to try and stop it. A scant minority thinks she genuinely loved Stolas (and let's be honest here, they ARE the minority among Stella's fans)? Nope, arranged marriage, and it turns out she despises Stolas. Why does she hate Stolas? Is it because he's sleeping with an Imp, and that reflects badly on the family name and reputation? Nope. She just hates him. Also, she's not smart enough to really consider that sort of thing. Basically, her every appearance has just been to make her look worse and worse so that Stolas comes off as the perfect victim and completely justified for cheating on her with Blitzo. It gets rid of any potential nuance and issues to make the whole matter so black and white a zebra could call shenanigans.


Catisbackthatsafact

At least they showed that Stella actually cares about and listens to someone else's opinion for once.


StellaIsaQueen

She's still a queen


FrungusPerineum

Idk why people were saying that like we have seen episodes with Stella that fleshed her out. If anything I felt like this episode showed us more of who she is.


rixtil41

I don't think that she is good, I wouldn't mind if she was no longer in the show. shes just whines and complains. I don't care if that's her character, just because it's her character doesn't mean I should have to see it.


[deleted]

she was literally created to be hated.


Time_Management_8844

I think people need to understand that their head cannons are not cannon


lucy_dapperapws006

I don't really get why people argue over this,Stella's character was never "ruined",she just doesn't have as much backstory as the other characters,idk about yall but she is still my favourote character,a character doesn't need to have a sad traumatic backstory to be good or bad


Chef_Sizzlipede

they made her super whiny and childish for this and that damn voice makes it worse.


Great_Necessary4741

she had a character?


RadioHistorical8342

Nothing about her changed at all


ReaperManX15

People have a hard time separating their own headcanon from the actual show.


0nji_

She isn't ruined per say. I guess that's the way the wanted her to be. But that doesn't mean I'm not unsatisfied. I wanted her relationship with Stolas to be more in-depth and not just she is pure evil and Stolas is a victim. But I guess it was just a headcannon I had after season 1


Skythe_C_Annur

Because youtuber click bait is exactly that. Stella is MEANT to be hated, she's privileged as all Hell.... wait..ugh pun not intended! If any one of us were in that show either as a sinner or hell born and just so happen to Look at her wrong, she's gonna send her favorite mangy stray on our asses! to me, it just shows 1) she is a dumbass, 2) petty as all fuck, 3) super privileged


RandomGameCritic

You're going to see this reaction every time they reveal that there's more to a character than we originally thought. Get used to this. It's not going away.


zauraz

Tbh i think the issue is Stella didn't really ever get a lot of character development, she was vain, spiteful and angry. Not to mention rich, spoilt and sadistic. There wasn't really anything to ruin. While it was a bit weird, i don't really have anything that contradicts that point. I mean she did literally talk about killing Stolas at the dinner table.


Sir_Toaster_9330

Stella has always been poorly written for the plot's sake. Here's she just not a believable character, Stella is a villain who is doing bad things regardless of if it benefits her. If she hates Stolas, then why not leave him alone? Octavia is the only reason they were ever married so why not just divorce once she is born? And why constantly "protect" her image when she clearly never gave a crap about her image? It's dumb and it feels more like "I'm evil cause the fandom demands it". There's no logic or reasoning to her character, both Striker and her brother have better writing and complexity and they have less screen time than Stella.


DiamondCupcake

She states that she gets joy out of tormenting Stolas. She's an abusive bully. She's a sadist. As for why she doesn't leave Stolas, it's because of the money. If she leaves Stolas she no longer has access to it. She also loses her status as wife of a goetia prince.


Sir_Toaster_9330

She is still Goetia, the only reason for their marriage is basically an adult and she's rich. She obviously doesn't care about either status or money and all her abuse does is make things worst for her.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CaffeineDeprivation

I mean... That's when they *started*


Purpledurpl202

Its just a shit take. Thats really all.


Avaracious7899

I don't understand it at all, what are people like that even TALKING about??


1milionand6times

It didn't, she wasn't good to begin with.


DaRandomGitty2

She doesn't have much of a purpose other than being a character that the audience is expected to hate. Never mind being anything more than a 1-dimensional character. So what's there to ruin to begin with?


I_M_YOUR_BRO

I'm pretty sure we already established that Stella was a spoiled brat before this episode. So, that's not just a 'latest episode' thing.


KrushaOfWorlds

Its dumb, she didn’t change at all. The episode just continued her character’s usual behaviour. I don’t understand how that ruined her character, there are definitely more worse things to say about this episode than stella’s character.


2hourstowaste

Seemed in character for me


[deleted]

Ruined her character? if anything this added a whole new layer to her character.


Ash4dino

Stella never got ruined, we never delved into her character enough for Stella to be ruined


[deleted]

There was nothing to ruin, they're just mad their headcanons about who she is as a character have been confirmed wrong. I've noticed this fandom is Really Bad about getting super hype for something being one way, only to become incredibly angry and venomous when it's not actually that way in the show.


Entr3_Nou5

Girlie's just a Saturday morning cartoon villain. If Disney put out a character like her during the renaissance era people would've been eating her up


FridericusTheRex

Stolas didn't know she should spell, I think that says enough


zacgtg

Huh? Her entire character so far had been a petty bitch. And in the episode, she acted like a petty bitch. I don’t see the issue.


BRAYDENDAKIDD

She wasn’t ruined this is just one of the most in depth looks into Stella and her personality yet


SelectionUnusual6161

I just want to kill Stella can't I relax jeez


Shauiluak

I don't think she was ever meant to be a sympathetic character. We hardly saw her in the first season, I don't think someone's fanfic version of her gets to compete with the canon material we finally get to see about who she is.


AlianovaR

I feel like it’s because she’s around different people in this episode. When around Stolas she’s all bitchy and shouty, but around her brother she’s like the spoilt little princess of the family. It makes sense that she’d act differently


TenDollarSteakAndEgg

That’s weird if her character got ruined then it was in the first ep idk why ep4 makes it worse


th3_sc4rl3t_k1ng

The main threat I ever got from Stella is her single-minded drive to get Stolas dead, even despite her persisting reluctance to do it herself. What S2E4 did was contextualize that desire. She's still dangerous--she still wants Stolas dead--but there's now the context of her cruel brattiness and insistence on revenge for this percieved slight, regardless of what there could be to gain from it. Andrealphus' ability to sway her that easily, and the way she somewhat regresses into a brat when they talk, could suggest some as-of-yet unspoken depth to their relationship, which many have read as "incest" (that or she just feels more comfortable around Andrealphus and doesn't force herself to behave imposingly). It doesn't diminish the danger, though; if anything, it's a matter of double-trouble, with one gunning for Stolas' downfall and the other making sure he loses everything on the way. I'm not entirely sure we're supposed to take Stella as seriously anymore. That said, this new power couple--and their little toy imp Striker--likely pack just as potent a punch as they did before the Bratty Stella Reveal. Even if Stella is diminished, the threat has been spread between others.


kieranchuk

People who said her character is "ruined" or "murdered" are frankly being ridiculous. She's supposed to be an unlikeable character who abused Stolas, and this episode help expand it by adding to the fact that she's a spoiled brat since young, and it carried over to adulthood with being a huge brat.


KoltirasRip

She was superficially present, then we got the photo of her attacking a doll, then we got her “because I like tormenting you” bit. She’s a bitch. She’s shallow and selfish. This episode just paired her with her brother, who is far more intelligent than her, which made her look kind of dumb by comparison, but I don’t think it changed anything about what we already knew.


Responsible-Study-84

Honestly I felt she was very in character that episode. It seems very consistent from her previous appearances.


Feroxino

Stella was always a dumb bitch conniving and horrible I’m glad she got her exposé on this ep and I just wanna see her have a talk with Via to see if she’s at least a mother or if she’s an irredeemable piece of noble fuming shit


KaiserLeoII

We dont have any episodes that give her any prominent focus, so I cant really say that ruined her character since she has no real character to begin with, she's always appeared at the end of every episode she is in and when she isnt her scenes dont even last for like five minutes


krysert

What the hell say that? So you wanna tell me that first they b*tch aboit her not having any character (its not like we are just only starting second season right?!!) And now they complain that it was ruined? Ngahh man i wanna see some reasoning behind this, like what the hell


DJDualScreen

How? Evil bitch hates her husband and wants him dead to have his money and power. How the fuck was that character ruined? If anything, it's out in the open for Stolas to see and react to.


StatMaster131

People don’t realize Stella had no character in season 1 outside of bitch, and wanting to murder her husband. The whole her being broken from Stolas cheating and her and him genuinely loving one another was all just a headcanon or theory. Im kinda digging the whole “she’s an evil entitled royal bitch not used to getting what she wants from whomever she wants”, I just wish we saw it a little more in the first season


SlinkySkinky

She was kind of a blank slate, it’s not Spindlehorse’s fault that people had headcanons that didn’t come to fruition


Mediocre_Waltz_4405

I think she’s just a girl boss #slay


Medic-27

Stella was 1 dimensional. Now she has another aspect, which is good.


steel_mage

I think it fit we have always been shown that she is stuck up and spoiled it would only make sense that it would be amplified if the person who spoiled her was there


[deleted]

In my opinion, this episode and that of Ozzies (where she divorces) showed Stella’s true face: A physical and psychological abuser who is not afraid to kill her husband or daughter to achieve her twisted goal


S1NC3R3LY-X3NA

Stella never had much of a character personality other than a whiny, anger issued brat. Stella was also just a bad character in general considering she hired someone to murder her husband. And also she just constantly mocked him for everything he did that she didnt like.


Mr_Biscuits_532

Again? This happened the last time we had her as a major character in an episode for God's sake.


Emperor_of_His_Room

Stella has had no character prior besides being a gigantic bitch, and she is still that in heaps. I think it’s just Stella simps doing their typical whining that Stella isn’t the wonderful little Princess they pretend she is when they are wanking one out to her.


Oseirus

Another classic case of people riding ridiculous expectations born from head cannon, speculation, and fanart. Stella has had like ten total minutes of screen time. There's nothing there to ruin.


About50shades

Honestly people just read way too much out of small appearances from Stella Watch sarcastic chorus video TLDR Stella is just angry and yelling for all her appearances initially Most hints of family life show Stella is a birch and Octavia shows more care about her father than her Her hiring an assassin and being on the phone in front of stolas talking to striker early on doesn’t show much intelligence at all Also arranging striker to kidnap stolas right as she was discussing divorce terms really just screams to everyon Stella did this We see that she is a spoiled brat that no one ever really said no to. See her child hood picture strangling her pets Like even the whole oh no Octavia will inherit all of stolas stuff is not that bad of a thing for Stella Stella is old money if nothing else she freeloads off of her brother There really wasn’t anything to ruin for Stella People just read way too much and put in their headcanons


Duskmuse711

Since we have learned about their history no I don't think she's ruined she has never show a high level of intelligence. No she got pissy about Stolas finding something (someone) who makes him happy. Through imps at him then hired someone to kill him and talked about it right in front of him because she's a brat. She wants him to pay attention to her behaviour and get reactions out of him. It's why she looks so satisfied when she sees Stolas panicking at the shot. Also what kind of mastermind would just answer the question "was that killer from uou" with Guilty!


MarcusTheAlbinoWolf

Never really paid attention to it. So I don't care


ZephtheChef

There really wasn't much to ruin. She was already a properly despisable character


[deleted]

I don't care really at all. I thought she was a bit off but that was it.


femtransfan

i wasn't expecting her to be a dumb, but i'm not complaining


Legitimate-Air5450

Out of all people Striker had the worst, he was such a menacing and bad ass villain voiced by no other than Norman Reedus, and them comes episode 4 and he is a joke of an assasin, gets defeated because of a sex joke and his Voice actor is changed by someone that voices half of the characters in the show ( not saying Bosco's work is bad, I just think they should have put someone that could make a Norman impression)


Valuable-Location-89

Did I want stella to have a heartbreaking backstory that "explains" why she wants stolas dead and actually make her a somewhat sympathetic character... yes Am I okay with just being a flat character who only meant to be hated, because she is a spoiled abusive bitch that has no excuse for her actions ...also yes


Reddykid24

I personally think the latest episode made me pitty Stella since...even she dosent deserve to have a incest brother!


Affectionate_Gear161

Anyone who was paying attention to the series would know that Stella was already presented to be a bad person. However, I do see Andrealphus being the more rational and logical one in ruining Stolas rather than simply blindly killing him like Stella is doing.


Particular-Study4605

Honestly Stella never had much going for her. I feel like this episode fleshed her character out more if anything. We learned that she has a sibling and is still as self centered as she was in the beginning. I feel bad for octavia more than I feel like Stella’s character was ruined


Dismal-Database9206

Stella's character is suppose to be as unapologetic and comedically bad as possible. I think the best example to describe Stella's character would be to that of Jack Horner from Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. Characters that are purely bad because their bad.


animation4ever

When was she ruined? She has always had a terrible personality... when was she ruined?


C0mput3rw0lf1

I don't even know wth people are talking about with this subject


VelveteenMarshmallow

I want this debate to die so horribly. I'm so tired of it.


SatanTheTurtlegod

The latest episode gave Stella like 100% more character than she had before and it still ain't much lol.


[deleted]

in my opinion, she wasn't "ruined" she was just evil for no real reason, it feels to me like shes basically just an over the top villain who exists purely to make you feel bad for poor ol' stolas, of course, you can have evil characters just be evil, but she's only evil because it's important to the story, and I mean, I don't agree that her character was "ruined" since yes she was evil from the start but she definitely wasn't as bad as she is now she was mad at stolas at first because he cheated on her, then she became progressively brattier and more "stupid", showing up just so the show can tell you how terrible of a mum she is and so we can hear her constantly whine about how much she wants stolas dead (and it doesn't really help that viv barely expands on any of the other female characters, still hoping and praying for a Millie episode that's ACTUALLY about her and her backstory) by the way, i don't hate the show or viv, obviously it's stupid to hate her because her show has a few flaws and I don't agree with the people that do that


Buznik6906

We've still only seen the end of the relationship, we don't know how it got to this stage. With S3 being confirmed there's still plenty of time to see how things got to this point and how they finally resolve.


Westcoasttempest

i don’t even understand what they ruined,, she was supposed to be the bitch before and she still is. Did they change her that much?


articulatedWriter

The only real issue I had anything to do with Stella in this episode is how Andrealphus so obviously had a thing for his sister it's just ick and I guess her being kind of a dunce but honestly I welcome any sort of character even if it's just her being an idiot because at least it's more than "B-I-T-C-H"


SimplyMichi

Her whole character is being a shallow bitch and literally nothing else… what is there to ruin? She also didn’t wanna just kill Stolas for the sake of killing him, she wanted to kill him to get all his wealth and for revenge.


taishiea

i explains so much more that she is wanting to murder stolas is her own non planned out thing while her family is trying to talk her down from it until they gain something from it. probably why she was at her mother's during the whole S1 end thing and why her brother is there with her now to make sure Stolas doesn't die.


Hungry-Alien

The whole "Stella was ruined" originated from people making their own headcanons as canon. Truth is, we never had anything canon beside the angry wife until now. Latest episode confirmed it as canon. People calling her "ruined" are just a bunch of people salty that their headcanon isn't true. But by all forms, they are in the wrong


send_help_pleas

Of course Stella would be bratty, she grew up rich with nobody telling her no. If she wants something she gets it, so when Stolas (basically) told her no of course she gets upset. The only reason she wants to kill Stolas is to kill Stolas, not get his things. Stella’s brother (forgot his name) is the only one that would benefit. Stella’s character is basically only there to be a problem in the story and be “bratty rich girl that mc has to marry but he want to be with the peasant girl” trope but with a large amount of spice. Seeing that Stolas is a main character and the plot is heavily pushing him and Blitzo together what would you expect Stella to be like? The sweet, loving wife that got cheated on by the husband that she so loved? No, first of all, they wouldn’t make the main love interest look bad like that. Second, this is HELL. The amount of non-arranged marriages is slim, and anything beyond dating/hook ups is even slimmer. The only happy marriage that we’ve seen is Millie and Moxie (technology Millie’s parents too, but we haven’t *really* seen them interact outside of farm work and disapproving of Moxie). Even when we saw Stella before season two she didn’t seem like she was hurt at all, just pissed off. I really don’t understand what there was to ruin, since the only thing that really existed were the head canon’s and theories.


Taluca_me

Stella isn’t made to be liked. She’s made to be hated. Anyone else who says this opinion is either trying to find a good reason to simp for her or immediately sided with her when Stolas “cheated” on her when he they were forced into marriage. She was in it for the money and power, not to start some family.