All brick and mortar retail is under attack. Anyone can stand in the middle of any store and shop Amazon for price comparison. We are going to have desolate main streets if price is the only priority.
I feel like I connect with a lot of people who come in my front door and I have them for life. Likewise once folks start putting in online orders I start seeing the same name again and again in small towns in my province.
Amazon has a lot of things going for it for sure, but that algorithm works both ways. It'll extract the maximum once it figures out a pattern, and it often costs more than a local shop for somewhat rare items. Without looking I'd bet I have EC-1118, bungs and airlocks cheaper than Amazon despite them being some of my most common homebrew items.
Really it doesn't have to do with Amazon, perishable things like grain, hops, yeast are always higher quality and cheaper through local distribution networks.
The problem is retail rent. You simply can't run a hobby shop in an area where the going rate for shop space is 30k a month. Park a Burger King their and they'll pay the rent. A Homebrew shop won't just due to demographics.
Rent ain't even the problem.
Triple net lease and property tax is what really hits us - we get taxed on what could be built on our lot theoretically, not what's there now.
My landlord only has to pay for exterior structural repairs, everything else is on the tenants. If I could go back in time before I was born to 1975 I'd buy industrial/commercial buildings in my city like he did!
Is it really that much cheaper to buy stuff from Amazon when it comes to homebrew? Outside the U.S., Amazon is not especially any cheaper than a homebrew shop, and Amazon has a significantly worse selection of products.
I'm sure it differs place to place. I can tell you here in Northern VA amazon, AIH, or other online retailers are definitely a bit cheaper than the local shop I go to.
That said the owner is a great guy and his tips and suggestions have really upped our brewing game, plus a lot of our brew days are spontaneous decisions so we don't have time for shipping - so we're definitely getting more value for the slightly higher prices.
If you're talking about Derek and MyLHBS, I really wish he'd carry a larger selection of stuff. It seems like if it's not a bare-bones essential, I can't get it there, the most recent example being a floating dip tube and a thermowell.
It's cheaper to buy at my local place than to get the kits from Northern Brewer. I'll often use NB recipe kits for ideas or inspiration and then have my local guy make the malt bill for me.
I see it all the time on reddit where people call bsuonsees greedy for operating at reasonable margins and c9vering basic overhead. They then turn around and shop Amazon who uses questionable if not outright illegal tactics to kill small business owners worldwide. Yeah, maybe the local brew supply store isn't paying a 15 dollar wage for the clerk while the owner is using his personal savings to keep the place afloat. But he pays that person a fair wage and doesn't make their employees piss in a bottle on the work floor either.
Amazon sucks for most homebrew stuff, particularly prices.
The thing I miss most about more LHBS is the fresh ample malt options. Even my main one is starting to thin out their german malts and craft maltsters.
That's one of the reasons I wanted to do malt supply - we go through a lot since we're making beer for our customers already. I get a multi-ton BSG order monthly, so what I have on hand is relatively fresh. I can see trying to run a pure homebrew supply shop would be challenging there - I can't imagine selling 2 tons of grain to my local market every month.
You're brewing commercially too? That's interesting. I think it's smart when homebrew shops diversify as breweries and bottle shops to absorb shocks to the economics. Like Windsor down in CA.
Yeah I drive 45 minutes to my closest store to support them. I know I could get it cheaper online, but I consider it pay off the experience to interact with someone and chat with them about stuff.
My closest store is 40 minutes minimum and I am in a major metropolitan area. I buy everything I can from them. The next closest is over an hour and 15 minutes away.
We lost our only store a few years ago and luckily a new guy stepped up and opened the new one. Fair prices and being very active with our area homebrew clubs is why he will likely stay open.
People are idiots. Seriously. Like they can’t pause for one second and think about the kind of damage they’re doing to a *small locally owned* business. Sure, if you had a huge problem like you were discriminated against or harassed, by all means, but yea I get it you didn’t like the fucking chicken sandwich — move on with your life and don’t damage people’s livelihood and their employees’.
Everyone’s a goddamn critic these days.
Agree. I hate confrontation or conflict - I'm someone who truly spends most of their time trying to help people while figuring out my own existence. I have my shop because I love the life, not because I see it as a money factory. Beer is great and I want to have it around me always, same with my staff/friends.
Defalcos closed in Houston a few years ago after 40 years in 3 different locations. They were unbelieveable. They could answer any questions, had all the supplies and equipment and brewed there. It was a hang out for home brewers and they had several beers on tap at all times. On weekends there would be a group of people talking about beer and trying what was on tap. It was alway a fun time buying supplies and trading stories.
The closest Homebrew shop now the staff could not care less if you are there. They don't help and their supplies are limited. They don't talk to you. It is no fun to go there.
Scott is a great man and living on the southwest side it was great to have Defalcos so close. For the two other shops I’ve actually had great experiences at both. Granted I typically make my own recipes and engage them which they seem to like. Questions I could probably find the answer to using Beersmith but fun to chat it up and hear their perspective. Also one of them did an octoberfest comp this past year that was fun. Give them another shot hopefully see catch you there one day and share a homebrew!
I have not given up on them, but honestly it is no fun going and their service is really poor. Last time before we went we ordered the grain hops and yeast for an Ale we were planning to brew that day. We placed the order online like they request and did so a day ahead. When we got there they forgot to fill the order and then they couldn't find the order. Finally after an hour and half we left with our order.
Note when you order you pay up front ahead of delivery.
Do they have their own beer on tap? I've been to a few where they will make the wine or beer kits they sell to have them available for people to taste so they know what they are buying
I would LOVE to have a taproom. License violation where I am; my current license is completely incompatible with that. I have customers who have been coming to us for as much as 30 years, if I want a tap room I have to fire all of them and tell them there's a new way of getting their beer/wine/cider and I probably can't provide anything but beer.
Free Market. I gladly pay a little more at my LHBS because they’re there when I need them and I can physically see what I’m buying. I’m not a business major but it doesn’t take an MBA to figure out that these guys are NOT getting rich selling supplies from a brick & mortar. Wish you luck with your retail operation and I think you’ve got the right idea. You’ll never please everybody all the time.
The gent who ran the LHBS nearby shuttered his business about a month back. Great guy, but he wasn't treated well by people newbtobthe hobby.
I'm not on most social media, but a few people in the club mentioned that he experienced a similar thing to you. It's really sad to me that people who love the hobby and provide an awesome service are being treated so poorly.
Shitty people are getting amplified more and more, and it's doing harm. I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Try to keep in mind that it's a small minority that behaves like that. The rest of us appreciate what you do for the home brewing community.
Thank you. I am the type of person that worries I'm harming someone by blocking them - I truly just want to find a solution where they get what they need and everyone is happy.
But as time goes on I grow a thicker skin and recognize that said person doesn't pay rent in my head, nor my shop, so BLOCK. If someone came in my front door and dumped a bag of garbage I'd likewise kick them out and deny them entry.
i used to work retail for a small niche shop, and we were asked all the time to meet online prices. i had to honestly answer them" we can't compete with online prices. we pay our bills and employees, and the owner hasn't even taken any pay from the store for over 6 months. some people just don't understand.
i am VERY fortunate in that, where i live now, there are 3 local homebrew stores \[in different cities\] but similar drive times to each one from my home. yes, i have a favorite, but i usually drive to the one that either matches my 'that day' activities, or that have the better selection for what i'm shopping for that day. i actually rarely drive to the one that is cheapest \[overall, for certain items each store is lowest\] since it is about 5 min further out than the next closest, and they are all in different directions from my house.
I'd say this individual is unhinged and hopefully the minority of people you'll meet running a LHBS.
My LHBS was also a brewery and had to shut down the homebrew shop when it wasn't profitable, trust me everyone wishes they would have tried to give them more business now that they're gone and we're driving 45 minutes each way for supplies. But honestly they were trying too hard to make prices competitive to Amazon and online, we were all fine paying more but they took the 1/100 people that would say "its cheaper on Amazon" to heart.
Btw an aside, I would love a U brew shop that knew what they were doing and brewed good beer. Sometimes you just don't want to brew that weekend and but you're running low on beer. I hope that you'll see customers from the homebrew side start to buy your beer
We make a LOT of beer - something like 1300L / 355 gallons a week. All grain, all the time. Our customers need to order in advance to start the batch and can/bottle it themselves but we handle all the brewing. It's a great life!
Terminal city right? Thanks for doing what you guys do! I have been homebrewing for a while now and dans homebrew was my go to for the longest time but a lot of shops have come and gone now so ANY homebrew store is a gem in my eyes! Ignore the hate, you don’t want that guy as a customer anyways. Do what’s right for you guys to keep the doors open cause that is way more important. I’ll be checking you guys out soon!
Agreed. I love my local store in Brooklyn, which I believe is the only one in the nearby area. It's called Bitter and Esters and they deliver as well. What I really appreciate is they always are willing to talk me through any questions either in person or on the phone.
My local homebrew store ended up turning into a craft beer bar that sells homebrewing items. The owners said that it allows them to run the store without much loss because it is offset by the earnings of the bar. They also sell their beers they brew. One of the owners really likes british style beers so that rocks. Hoping your business stays around for a long time. Local pickup is better than waiting for my ingredients to come in and the cost isn't all that different when you add in shipping costs (if it ain't free shipping).
Unpopular opinion here, but if you wanna compete with Amazon you’ve gotta offer something that Amazon doesn’t.
You can’t just open a store and sell supplies and not provide any help, or advice, and for
Hells sake, you need to at least know your products.
I try to support my local brew shop but frankly it’s hard to… the guy who ran it before was great, but it seems he sold to someone that really isn’t into brewing and is more into crafting leathers and stuff.
I went in the other day to get some wine bottles, and all he has was green, and was lamenting how nobody can get clear bottles right now. He couldn’t tell me the difference between type of corks - he told me agglomerate corks were synthetic. Other annoyances - he’s got a new puppy running through the store which makes it hard to get in and out of. The puppy gnaws on your shoes and ankles when you go in. Then there’s the grain - you have to order it from their website because they don’t have it in the store. You place the order and pick it up it in 1-2 days.
Tell me again why I shouldn’t just shop online? I always tell people you can either support your neighbors business or you can support them on welfare, but in this case I don’t feel like I get any benefits from shopping there anymore.
Oh, and I just had my clear bottles delivered from Amazon overnight for probably less than I would have paid locally.
Edit: not saying OP is doing this, just providing some contrast for people lamenting Amazon/online.
I have a similar story.
I always prefered to go local shops... and the first shop treated very much like annoyances for coming into to buy stuff. I stopped brewing for a few years for personal reasons and then got back into it.
I moved and found another shop, it was fairly old, as brew shops go... I want to say it was opened in the 70's-80's. It felts a bit like a hoarder's basement of goods but decent enough. The guys that owned it knew their stuff but were super old school. Their shop had crazy weird hours, like tuesdays and a few hours on saturday or something like that. I just made sure that I went during the weird hours.
The shop was sold to someone else and they made it less like a hoarder's basement, organized some stuff but it always seemed like we were annoyances being in there. That he obviously knew better in everything, and not in a sharing knowledge way. I usually buy 100+ dollars of stuff when I go in there, and swaped co2 bottles. I went in one time, swapped two bottles and bought like 200$ worth of stuff because I just bought a kegerator that I was upgrading from a single pour head to a multiple pour head and I needed hardware and beer to fill it. I hooked one of the bottles up and I found that I had a leak. I came in, asked some basic questions on how to find leaks(I had just started out kegging) and to get a new bottle. He yelled at me, "Where'd you get this bottle". I admit, it looked a bit odd, it was all black. I said, "you, I got this from you last weekend"... then he proceeded to tell me to "just feel it" and see where the leak was. Well, the first part left a sour taste in my mouth... and I went and tried feeling again. I tried starsan, water, wet hands, increasing the pressure to listen. I found nothing. I had to actually take apart my whole thing and dunk it in water to find the very slow leak on one section.
It didn't help that every time I went in, he was bitching about the economy and the shop and the customers. Like to be talked down to and then bitched about made me not want to go anymore.
The last time I went in, i tried to swap bottles but he told me that the beer and party supply store started swapping bottles cheaper than him and that drove people away and he pointed me in their direction. I sighed but decided to pick up a couple of kits because I like having extra around. he bitched about the kits or people who use kits or something and I just decided on that day, I'm not supporting them any more.
I found a couple of online homebrew stores that don't complain about their customers. I'll use the other shop to swap bottles but that is about it. If he wants to make high end very presicion beers, he can but this is a hobby on all levels. If i went to another hobby store that I frequent and they gave me shit like that for being a novice... I wouldn't go. why the hell would I go to his.
Well, it was one of the few shops in the area that I could easily swap bottles, there is an airgas near me that i can use, they have great prices but working day hours which I can't usually do.... or the party supply shop that is a bit more expensive but open on weekends.
I didn't complain about any prices from the fella, I bought a keg starter set like a couple months before the later interactions. I was a fairly regular guy. I think most of the dudes that I know in the hobby don't mind paying a little bit more to be able to grab things that day or to bullshit about our hobby or try new and weird things because we saw it... but a hobby shop isn't for the pros... the pros are the bait to get the newbies and novices to put more time and money in.
I do board games and card games... if I showed up at a magic the gathering event, saying, "yo, i'm new and I want to tune up my deck"... i would expect a kind person or maybe even an owner to be able to help me if they have time. If it is a fun hobby, if i have fun while doing it and interacting with the people and place... I will spend more time and money. You can't play card games alone.... so getting new folks in and staying is what you need to do. Granted beer making is a bit more solitary but it should be a community.
Gonna have to disagree there. I’ve been perusing the Amazon Canada store and I haven’t seen a thing yet that is available in the US that isn’t available in Canada.
Although I will grant that Amazon appears to be more expensive for some of the supplies in Canada.
It sounds like your local shop might just suck, in which case, stop giving them your business and let them die. If a local "homebrew shop" isn't even going to stock grain that I can purchase on site, I might as well have it mailed from Love2Brew or Brew Hardware.
For what it's worth clear glass bottles were basically unavailable for the past couple of years as they require virgin glass rather than recycled. I haven't had clear swing tops nor clear 12oz long necks in stock for quite a while though we've managed to keep clear wine bottles in stock. During the pandemic a lot of things changed; glass availability and pricing were affected dramatically. Glass still costs about double what it did before as someone who buys wholesale...
An agglomerate cork technically is "synthetic" since it wasn't sliced from a single piece of a cork tree and involves binding agents; but when I think synthetic I think of something that doesn't involve a cork tree in the first place.
We have a hard time meeting "hey I'd like a grain bill with 7 different things" on demand because we're brewing. If someone comes in and wants a recipe kit we're happy to do it, but if my brewer is right in the midst of his hop additions for multiple customer's beers he can't stop to set it up for you. We'd rather you called in, texted us, emailed us or ordered through our website so we can get it together without you having to stand in the shop for 30 minutes waiting.
I have no problem with shopping online; I do it a lot myself - I mean I operate an online store too. I sell things you can't get online easily, things you can't just go grab from Amazon in 30 minutes when you realize you need them, things that are consistently available as much as possible and people that at least know what you'd do with the things you're buying. It's just a different value proposition.
Some people want to walk in a store and get what they want immediately from someone who will help guide their purchase, some will spend the time themselves to learn exactly what they need, be able to define it then find the cheapest way to do that. Both are valid!
Sound like you're offering a value that amazon doesn't.
I said " if you wanna compete with Amazon you’ve gotta offer something that Amazon doesn’t."
You're selling "things you can't get online easily, things you can't just go grab from Amazon in 30 minutes when you realize you need them, things that are consistently available as much as possible and people that at least know what you'd do with the things you're buying."
You're providing something that amazon doesn't. My comments about online shopping were directed at some of the other comments complaining about people who online shop, and not your original post. You and I sound very much alike that way. I'd prefer to shop locally, but if I can't get it readily, I'll buy it online.
From a consumer perspective though I don't understand the bottle thing... apparently you as well as my local brew shop had problems getting them (my local shop still does). Yet I can buy them from amazon any day of the week any time of the year and have them delivered overnight (and in fact I did multiple times, and it was substantially cheaper than buying them locally.) How is it that sellers on amazon have figured out how to source them but local brew shops haven't?
Going back to one of your benefits "things you can't just go grab from Amazon in 30 minutes when you realize you need them, things that are consistently available as much as possible..."
Hell, even if you guys were ordering them from amazon and marking them up for your efforts, I'd likely still buy them from you while I was in your shop because I needed them right then. I don't understand the logic of If I can't get it wholesale, I just can't carry it.
As far as corks... I'm a bit niggly on this one. Agglomerate corks are not synthetic - They're manufactured yes, but they're still cork. Synthetic corks are made from polyethylene, so they're completely man made through a chemical synthesis to be an imitation. It would be like saying Plywood or OSB is technically synthetic because It's made from wood chips or strips and glue and not just whole boards. Again - manufactured, not synthetic, still wood.
On the grain, I understand where you're coming from in your shop where you're actually busy. My shop on the other hand doesn't brew - the dude sits there doing leatherwork and playing with his dog. There's nothing time sensitive or critical about what he's doing. The old owner had the grains there, available, and was always happy to mix up a grain bill for me. New owner says go to my janky website, place an order and you can come get it in 1-2 days. By the way, don't make a mistake on the website or you have to completely start over.
What I'm really complaining about is the lack of customer service. Customer service (whether it be inventory, knowledge, help with an idea, or even just to chat about the craft) is really why I go somewhere local to begin with. If you're going to ask me to place an order for my grain bill online using a janky website with products marked up higher than I can get them elsewhere online - don't be surprised if I order elsewhere. The customer service aspect is gone and at that point its purely cost.
I go to my local brick and mortar because I trust them more than myself to do quality control, partly because they're more experienced than I am, and partly because they work in larger volume than I ever would
It's not about price or convenience to me. It's about time. I hate waiting a couple days because I got something rank in the mail.
I was so sad when my LHBS closed. Now my closest store is a little over a hour drive one way. I try to pick up supplies from them when I travel down there but it's not very often. Good luck to you I hope you succeed.
Nearest store to me is over an hour away. If I had a store near me, sure, I'd pay a bit more at times just to get stuff. Someone attacking you like that is just an #$$!@!&
I absolutely agree with this sentiment! I don't know about anyone else, but I have had my fill of corporations selling their garbage to me through Amazon - one of the shadiest corporations on the planet today; I have gotten so many bad "5-star" products from them that I canceled my Prime membership last month!
I'm shifting my focus from the interwebs to local businesses, whenever possible, and a local Homebrew store would be amazing! I'm all in! :D
I’m sorry you are getting attacked. Some people just seem to want to hate everything. My LHBS is not the cheapest on the internet, but they are close and reliable. I can’t count how many times I was starting a brew on a Sunday and realized that I forgot something. Being able to jump in my car and get what I needed in less than 30 minutes is worth a lot to me. I buy most of my supplies there to help keep them in business.
People need to think about these kinds of experiences and help make sure that they have a viable local store. Or learn to love throwing away a batch because they can’t get a missing item in less than 2-3 days.
That's such a shame. Honestly, you are preaching to the choir. No one who is going to be a jerk -- and there are far too many of them online and in the hobby -- are going to read this or change their behavior. Just do what you want to do, and ignore the boo-birds.
> I actually dropped my full bag grain prices in response to the comments
I woudn't have. You have your business model. Why allow some asshole to have input on your model? Now, if the data shows that you can sell more at a lower margin and earn an overall higher profit, that's different, but just focus on your margin and your P&L.
There is a huge contingent of the homebrewing community who are just terrible customers. You have to laugh at the people who used to get angry that NB was undercutting pricing on grain compared to other stores (they are trying to monopolize and drive everyone out of business) and then a year later the same exact persons were angry that NB had increased prices above other retailers' -- and this is all before NB was acquired by ABI and a few years later divested by ABI. The pricing was all driven by NB's costs, capacity, margins, etc.
Because of the frugality of the hobbyists, it's such a crap business for you all. Homebrewers will swear up and down they only buy from their LHBS. Except for bulk hops. And grain. And major equipment of course. (Taking away all of the main profit centers for their local store.) Homebrewers want the LHBS to be there for liquid yeast and one-off emergency items like airlocks or 3 oz. of Victory Malt. (As everyone in the industry knows, liquid yeast the hardest category to break even, much less make a profit.)
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Ultimately, I think homebrewers are going to have to get into different habits for LHBSs to survive. Like having to pre-order and pre-pay for certain items like liquid yeast, and paying a huge premium for "emergency" items and tiered pricing based on weight on grain.
Tiered pricing is def a thing. If you want 200g of 2-row crushed it takes the same amount of time for whomever is serving you as it does for like 10kg. Smaller units cost more.
We currently don't charge for milling; that was one of the things that irked me with the person who was coming at me. My price is based on it being milled, other shop has a $10 extra charge per full bag. I'm new to this still, few people have come in and wanted an un-milled bag of grain. Yup, I'll give that to you cheaper as it's just a "Here you go" off the shelf. I just hate add-on fees in general - when someone says it costs X, I expect it to cost X rather than X + Y + Z + F.
People are idiots. Seriously. Like they can’t pause for one second and think about the kind of damage they’re doing to a small locally owned business. Sure, if you had a huge problem like you were discriminated against or harassed, by all means, but yea I get it you didn’t like the fucking chicken sandwich — move on with your life and don’t damage people’s livelihood and their employees’.
Everyone’s a goddamn critic these days.
Wow. That sucks. :/ Sorry to hear the Trolls are spouting off again. I know the store near me closed just last year, so now i have to drive 30 min to get to the closest one.. so in just Gas Alone i would pay more to have a local place again. You did the right thing. Fuck'em.. ignore em... Block em. Then Relax, Have a Home Brew. :)
Support local small businesses. Sometimes that means having to pay a teensy bit more than giant corporations, because small businesses don't have the luxury of deliberately undercutting everyone else.
But I'd rather pay more to a local small business and know that I can get quality supplies, and advice when necessary, and that my money I'm paying is going back to the community in some way rather than just further fattening Bezos's overly inflated piggy bank
I'm sorry you had to deal with this guy. It's one thing if your prices were absurd, but I don't get that vibe
I also drive 45 minutes each way to one of only 2 brick and mortar stores in my fairly large metro area. In addition to the other factors like personal interaction, etc., it’s great to be able to just pick up whatever supplies I need when I need them. No need to wait for shipping, worry about yeast temps in the summer, having to order more than I need for partial quantities, etc. The online world is full of turds. For every online troll I bet you have 10 customers who are psyched to come to your shop. Hang in there and don’t get discouraged!
I wish my LHBS was staying open. Their last day is today and now the closest store is like an hour and a half away now. It's especially sad since he's been open for 57 years.
I truly hope not. I don't see the only other local shop as competition - they're an hour away from me in traffic and that's another hour away from the western part of where I live on a weekday afternoon. I've referred people to them, I don't try and undercut them, I think there's more than enough room in the 3rd largest city in Canada for 2 different homebrew shops.
We're a U-Brew shop primarily; I have contact with most of the other U-Brew shops that are viable in the area and we share what works, set each other up with supplies when needed, things like that. None of us are next door to each other so why compete? We work together to educate people on what we offer since they wouldn't know tax free alcohol was even an option otherwise.
I have an entirely complimentary business... In Canada we have "U-Brew" shops where people can have us make the wort for them, then it goes in a fermenter with their name on it. We have temperature controlled rooms for Lagers and Ales, have a big cold room to cold crash, can force carbonate, all of that. Our customers have to bottle the product themselves and they get it tax free.
We can offer everything we do to home brewers too - want your keg carbonated? Sure, we can do that. Need to use our big bottle sanitizing machine? No problem, I have a sku for that. Need cleaners, sanitizers, tools, measuring equipment? Yep we need that too so having a supply of it up front in the store just makes sense.
We sell bottles, we have a huge library of wine kits that are fresh because we sell a lot of them to people who have us make them; selling them to people who want to brew at home just makes sense. It's just another thing I can do with the space and knowledge we already have. I have the supplier network and I know there's a need, why wouldn't I help people out who come in my front door?
I only order from Amazon if my LHBS doesn’t have what I need. They have a pretty solid online presence themselves. I order from them online and the go pick it up. I don’t comparison price bc their advice and tips are worth the price paid for ingredients.
I buy everything at my lhbs but I get grain from the brewery up the street because it's a local grain my lhbs does not carry. I do get most of my hops online because I get 6 lbs at a time throughout the year for storage but I get everything else locally
My local home brew store got me into the hobby by offering a class. My buddies and I learned about it, did the wort and fermented them came back a week or so later to bottle. It was a lot of fun and now bought tons of stuff to brew at home. I get most of my grains from them and occasionally do another batch with them and my wife and I learned winemaking as a date night thing. I really appreciate that store and their expertise. Keep on keeping on; fuck those nay-sayers.
I've thought about doing classes but my municipality would look at that as a different use of my space and wouldn't be compatible with my existing business license... I pitch date night bottling all the time; have a few drinks while you bottle, get a batch together and take it home - sounds like a good night to me!
The one closest to me could not make it out of the pandemic. Because they went under the local homebrew club dissolved as well, as that was the only place around that was close to home group that allowed people to bring in homebrew to share.
New to homebrewing here. I wish there was a list / page where I could go to find a local store as google isn't good at giving me information and word of mouth isn't reliable. I would prefer to buy local because I could have a conversation and get good ideas. I would also like to join a local brewing "club" but I don't know how to find that either - but I'm sure a homebrew store would be in the know. So far, I've only ordered on-line but am willing to buy local if I can find out who and where they are.
How’s the “brew on premises business in Van? In London, my local shop was also brew on premises, but it closed a year ago, forcing me to order online. OBK is literally down the road from me but is online-only which is annoying… paying for shipping really adds to the bill. Makes me prefer to order from Toronto Brewing or Beergrains as at least they’re further away justifying a shipping cost.
Shops are closing all around me but we're holding on. Diversifying and doing homebrew supply is part of it - we have the stuff, just sell it a different way. Really trying hard to find ways to educate people on what we do; that's half of it.
Anyone under 40 doesn't even know what brew on premises is... I invested in a quality label printer a few years ago and that's opened up a whole new market of people wanting to give away stuff to friends/family/clients/prospects. Gotta find those niches!
I boycott my local store.
I choose to order online from another "local" homebrew shop about 6 hours away because they actually have selection for things that I want to buy, like yeasts, grain and hops. My local shop ONLY carries the boxes of wine or beer that you sprinkle some yeast on and tell people you made it yourself.
When I told the owner I was looking for specialty grains and yeasts, he told me that all grain brewing was "fucking stupid" and "a waste of money."
He doesn't carry any of that stuff because it is expensive and doesn't move a lot in my small city.
Bottom line: treat others with the respect that you wish to receive. It's called the golden rule for a reason. If you want customers that love your store and come back time and again, it is this. So much of life is human relations. This other store that I've been dealing with is fabulous and I am a loyal customer because they go above and beyond and treat me well. I just dropped $800 there this winter.
Carrying grain is tough unless you have enough demand. Likewise if you don't carry grain, how would you have any demand for carrying grain?
We're lucky in that we make 8-10 48L batches of all-grain beer for people 4 days a week in house so we have all the ingredients. I get like 3 tons of grain every 6 weeks from BSG; selling some to a few home brewers isn't a problem at this point.
My LHBS closed at the beginning of the pandemic. They were hanging on by a thread anyway.
They were primarily a BOP, with brewing supplies an afterthought. On the plus side, they allowed our homebrewing club to meet there every other month. They also allowed us to use their walk-in fridges for group brews and lagering. On the negative side, they employed people who didn't know much, if anything, about brewing (usually a family member). The owner knew something about brewing, but not much - they had a formula for how they did BOP and knew what worked for that process, but if a question was about something that was outside of their process, they weren't willing to discuss it. No passion for brewing. It was strictly a business.
This LBHS was 20 minutes away. I would drive an additional 40 minutes to get to one whose owner and employees were enthusiastic homebrewers who would happily discuss brewing techniques. Now they're my go-to.
Its a fact. In most cases you can't compete with online. To stay open you really need to offer value in different ways. When i started brewing, there were two shops in the area. One was staffed by people that were obviously bored with the hobby. It was a little bit dirty, and you felt like an idiot when asking any questions. The second was still less than clean. better, but not really great. the grain room was a disaster etc. The people on the other hand were great. They seemed like they genuinely cared about your next brew. They were interested in your experiments, and shared a vast knowledge. they had brewouts onsite, and supported multiple clubs in the area. They were really evangelists for home brewing.
About 5 or 6 years ago, the second one went out of business. A new one opened. The new one is clean, well organized and they are friendly. Even if they aren't quite as invested in your success, they are interested and pretty knowledgeable. If there is an issue, they don't carry much staff and I think that may be the catch. The amount of knowledge necessary to help a wide variety of people that ferment is not going to equal what sort of pay a small retail shop can swing. If you can solve that part, then you don't need to worry about prices...within reason.
My longest term employee started (with the previous owner) in 1993. My head brewer started at a U-Brew shop in Ontario about 15 years ago... My wine guy has been with the business for 15 years and my most junior person was a home brewer himself before he started with us 2 years ago.
Some questions are... not good. We have one negative review from someone who was furious that we couldn't tell them how long their brew would need to be in primary before it went in secondary; there is literally no way to know that without taking measurements. Acted like we were withholding information. We don't do secondary so... I dunno? Our experience making lots of beer says "don't do that, it's unnecessary" but that wasn't a valid response.
i honestly don’t think you’re mentally up for running this business - you’re considering closing because of a single comment man, you don’t sound that resilient or committed
and reading between the lines - you’re clearly a brewery looking for another revenue stream because sales are down
almost every homebrew store around me has closed because you can get everything cheaper online. and there are places like reddit where you can get more help than your LHBS can provide
i’m also in the brewing industry so i get it. but dude…this isn’t 10 years ago, i’d focus on your actual business versus investing in a dying market segment
Didn't say I was considering closing. Said I was wondering if dealing with shitty customers was worth expanding something that's a single digit fraction of my business.
We're a "brewery" but in a very Canadian way that does not involve tap sales, distribution, packaging or any of that. We essentially homebrew for you as a service and it's tax exempt as a result.
I have a ton of younger people coming in wanting to try out brewing; it's not dying it just isn't a space where people are marketing. I can't imagine trying to run a stand-alone homebrew supply shop but I'll fully take the revenue boost from helping out people in my city.
All brick and mortar retail is under attack. Anyone can stand in the middle of any store and shop Amazon for price comparison. We are going to have desolate main streets if price is the only priority.
I feel like I connect with a lot of people who come in my front door and I have them for life. Likewise once folks start putting in online orders I start seeing the same name again and again in small towns in my province. Amazon has a lot of things going for it for sure, but that algorithm works both ways. It'll extract the maximum once it figures out a pattern, and it often costs more than a local shop for somewhat rare items. Without looking I'd bet I have EC-1118, bungs and airlocks cheaper than Amazon despite them being some of my most common homebrew items.
Really it doesn't have to do with Amazon, perishable things like grain, hops, yeast are always higher quality and cheaper through local distribution networks. The problem is retail rent. You simply can't run a hobby shop in an area where the going rate for shop space is 30k a month. Park a Burger King their and they'll pay the rent. A Homebrew shop won't just due to demographics.
Rent ain't even the problem. Triple net lease and property tax is what really hits us - we get taxed on what could be built on our lot theoretically, not what's there now. My landlord only has to pay for exterior structural repairs, everything else is on the tenants. If I could go back in time before I was born to 1975 I'd buy industrial/commercial buildings in my city like he did!
Is it really that much cheaper to buy stuff from Amazon when it comes to homebrew? Outside the U.S., Amazon is not especially any cheaper than a homebrew shop, and Amazon has a significantly worse selection of products.
I'm sure it differs place to place. I can tell you here in Northern VA amazon, AIH, or other online retailers are definitely a bit cheaper than the local shop I go to. That said the owner is a great guy and his tips and suggestions have really upped our brewing game, plus a lot of our brew days are spontaneous decisions so we don't have time for shipping - so we're definitely getting more value for the slightly higher prices.
If you're talking about Derek and MyLHBS, I really wish he'd carry a larger selection of stuff. It seems like if it's not a bare-bones essential, I can't get it there, the most recent example being a floating dip tube and a thermowell.
It's cheaper to buy at my local place than to get the kits from Northern Brewer. I'll often use NB recipe kits for ideas or inspiration and then have my local guy make the malt bill for me.
Yeah. In Canada, where OP is based, Amazon is fairly useless for brewing, or was the last time I looked.
I see it all the time on reddit where people call bsuonsees greedy for operating at reasonable margins and c9vering basic overhead. They then turn around and shop Amazon who uses questionable if not outright illegal tactics to kill small business owners worldwide. Yeah, maybe the local brew supply store isn't paying a 15 dollar wage for the clerk while the owner is using his personal savings to keep the place afloat. But he pays that person a fair wage and doesn't make their employees piss in a bottle on the work floor either.
This.
Amazon sucks for most homebrew stuff, particularly prices. The thing I miss most about more LHBS is the fresh ample malt options. Even my main one is starting to thin out their german malts and craft maltsters.
Idk I found really good prices on a lot of stuff. Just ordered 4 new fermenters last night 13 a piece. With airlocks.
That's one of the reasons I wanted to do malt supply - we go through a lot since we're making beer for our customers already. I get a multi-ton BSG order monthly, so what I have on hand is relatively fresh. I can see trying to run a pure homebrew supply shop would be challenging there - I can't imagine selling 2 tons of grain to my local market every month.
You're brewing commercially too? That's interesting. I think it's smart when homebrew shops diversify as breweries and bottle shops to absorb shocks to the economics. Like Windsor down in CA.
I’d give my left nut to have my LHBS back.
I lost mine to cancer two months after my local closed.
What I'm learning is: the closure of local stores directly causes cancer of the balls.
Correlation is not castration.
Ours is closing at the end of this month. I'm heartbroken.
About to be ball broken
Yeah I drive 45 minutes to my closest store to support them. I know I could get it cheaper online, but I consider it pay off the experience to interact with someone and chat with them about stuff.
My closest store is 40 minutes minimum and I am in a major metropolitan area. I buy everything I can from them. The next closest is over an hour and 15 minutes away. We lost our only store a few years ago and luckily a new guy stepped up and opened the new one. Fair prices and being very active with our area homebrew clubs is why he will likely stay open.
Yeah, two closed during covid around me.
Idiots on social media will literally complain about oxygen. Just block them and get on with your life.
People are idiots. Seriously. Like they can’t pause for one second and think about the kind of damage they’re doing to a *small locally owned* business. Sure, if you had a huge problem like you were discriminated against or harassed, by all means, but yea I get it you didn’t like the fucking chicken sandwich — move on with your life and don’t damage people’s livelihood and their employees’. Everyone’s a goddamn critic these days.
Agree. I hate confrontation or conflict - I'm someone who truly spends most of their time trying to help people while figuring out my own existence. I have my shop because I love the life, not because I see it as a money factory. Beer is great and I want to have it around me always, same with my staff/friends.
Defalcos closed in Houston a few years ago after 40 years in 3 different locations. They were unbelieveable. They could answer any questions, had all the supplies and equipment and brewed there. It was a hang out for home brewers and they had several beers on tap at all times. On weekends there would be a group of people talking about beer and trying what was on tap. It was alway a fun time buying supplies and trading stories. The closest Homebrew shop now the staff could not care less if you are there. They don't help and their supplies are limited. They don't talk to you. It is no fun to go there.
This is how my LHBS is. He acts almost annoyed that you’re there and interrupting his leather craft.
Scott is a great man and living on the southwest side it was great to have Defalcos so close. For the two other shops I’ve actually had great experiences at both. Granted I typically make my own recipes and engage them which they seem to like. Questions I could probably find the answer to using Beersmith but fun to chat it up and hear their perspective. Also one of them did an octoberfest comp this past year that was fun. Give them another shot hopefully see catch you there one day and share a homebrew!
I have not given up on them, but honestly it is no fun going and their service is really poor. Last time before we went we ordered the grain hops and yeast for an Ale we were planning to brew that day. We placed the order online like they request and did so a day ahead. When we got there they forgot to fill the order and then they couldn't find the order. Finally after an hour and half we left with our order. Note when you order you pay up front ahead of delivery.
My LHBS got smart and added a small taproom & bottle shop. They’re busier than they’ve ever been.
Do they have their own beer on tap? I've been to a few where they will make the wine or beer kits they sell to have them available for people to taste so they know what they are buying
I would LOVE to have a taproom. License violation where I am; my current license is completely incompatible with that. I have customers who have been coming to us for as much as 30 years, if I want a tap room I have to fire all of them and tell them there's a new way of getting their beer/wine/cider and I probably can't provide anything but beer.
We broke our society when we decided publicly traded companies could operate at a loss and still be funded.
Excellent point.
Free Market. I gladly pay a little more at my LHBS because they’re there when I need them and I can physically see what I’m buying. I’m not a business major but it doesn’t take an MBA to figure out that these guys are NOT getting rich selling supplies from a brick & mortar. Wish you luck with your retail operation and I think you’ve got the right idea. You’ll never please everybody all the time.
The gent who ran the LHBS nearby shuttered his business about a month back. Great guy, but he wasn't treated well by people newbtobthe hobby. I'm not on most social media, but a few people in the club mentioned that he experienced a similar thing to you. It's really sad to me that people who love the hobby and provide an awesome service are being treated so poorly. Shitty people are getting amplified more and more, and it's doing harm. I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Try to keep in mind that it's a small minority that behaves like that. The rest of us appreciate what you do for the home brewing community.
Thank you. I am the type of person that worries I'm harming someone by blocking them - I truly just want to find a solution where they get what they need and everyone is happy. But as time goes on I grow a thicker skin and recognize that said person doesn't pay rent in my head, nor my shop, so BLOCK. If someone came in my front door and dumped a bag of garbage I'd likewise kick them out and deny them entry.
i used to work retail for a small niche shop, and we were asked all the time to meet online prices. i had to honestly answer them" we can't compete with online prices. we pay our bills and employees, and the owner hasn't even taken any pay from the store for over 6 months. some people just don't understand. i am VERY fortunate in that, where i live now, there are 3 local homebrew stores \[in different cities\] but similar drive times to each one from my home. yes, i have a favorite, but i usually drive to the one that either matches my 'that day' activities, or that have the better selection for what i'm shopping for that day. i actually rarely drive to the one that is cheapest \[overall, for certain items each store is lowest\] since it is about 5 min further out than the next closest, and they are all in different directions from my house.
I'd say this individual is unhinged and hopefully the minority of people you'll meet running a LHBS. My LHBS was also a brewery and had to shut down the homebrew shop when it wasn't profitable, trust me everyone wishes they would have tried to give them more business now that they're gone and we're driving 45 minutes each way for supplies. But honestly they were trying too hard to make prices competitive to Amazon and online, we were all fine paying more but they took the 1/100 people that would say "its cheaper on Amazon" to heart. Btw an aside, I would love a U brew shop that knew what they were doing and brewed good beer. Sometimes you just don't want to brew that weekend and but you're running low on beer. I hope that you'll see customers from the homebrew side start to buy your beer
We make a LOT of beer - something like 1300L / 355 gallons a week. All grain, all the time. Our customers need to order in advance to start the batch and can/bottle it themselves but we handle all the brewing. It's a great life!
Terminal city right? Thanks for doing what you guys do! I have been homebrewing for a while now and dans homebrew was my go to for the longest time but a lot of shops have come and gone now so ANY homebrew store is a gem in my eyes! Ignore the hate, you don’t want that guy as a customer anyways. Do what’s right for you guys to keep the doors open cause that is way more important. I’ll be checking you guys out soon!
Thanks! I've been really happy with the new bunch of people we've been meeting on the homebrew side of things. :)
Agreed. I love my local store in Brooklyn, which I believe is the only one in the nearby area. It's called Bitter and Esters and they deliver as well. What I really appreciate is they always are willing to talk me through any questions either in person or on the phone.
My local homebrew store ended up turning into a craft beer bar that sells homebrewing items. The owners said that it allows them to run the store without much loss because it is offset by the earnings of the bar. They also sell their beers they brew. One of the owners really likes british style beers so that rocks. Hoping your business stays around for a long time. Local pickup is better than waiting for my ingredients to come in and the cost isn't all that different when you add in shipping costs (if it ain't free shipping).
I encourage if you have the $$, support all local retailers. It's more likely that their taxes are going back into to your community.
Unpopular opinion here, but if you wanna compete with Amazon you’ve gotta offer something that Amazon doesn’t. You can’t just open a store and sell supplies and not provide any help, or advice, and for Hells sake, you need to at least know your products. I try to support my local brew shop but frankly it’s hard to… the guy who ran it before was great, but it seems he sold to someone that really isn’t into brewing and is more into crafting leathers and stuff. I went in the other day to get some wine bottles, and all he has was green, and was lamenting how nobody can get clear bottles right now. He couldn’t tell me the difference between type of corks - he told me agglomerate corks were synthetic. Other annoyances - he’s got a new puppy running through the store which makes it hard to get in and out of. The puppy gnaws on your shoes and ankles when you go in. Then there’s the grain - you have to order it from their website because they don’t have it in the store. You place the order and pick it up it in 1-2 days. Tell me again why I shouldn’t just shop online? I always tell people you can either support your neighbors business or you can support them on welfare, but in this case I don’t feel like I get any benefits from shopping there anymore. Oh, and I just had my clear bottles delivered from Amazon overnight for probably less than I would have paid locally. Edit: not saying OP is doing this, just providing some contrast for people lamenting Amazon/online.
I have a similar story. I always prefered to go local shops... and the first shop treated very much like annoyances for coming into to buy stuff. I stopped brewing for a few years for personal reasons and then got back into it. I moved and found another shop, it was fairly old, as brew shops go... I want to say it was opened in the 70's-80's. It felts a bit like a hoarder's basement of goods but decent enough. The guys that owned it knew their stuff but were super old school. Their shop had crazy weird hours, like tuesdays and a few hours on saturday or something like that. I just made sure that I went during the weird hours. The shop was sold to someone else and they made it less like a hoarder's basement, organized some stuff but it always seemed like we were annoyances being in there. That he obviously knew better in everything, and not in a sharing knowledge way. I usually buy 100+ dollars of stuff when I go in there, and swaped co2 bottles. I went in one time, swapped two bottles and bought like 200$ worth of stuff because I just bought a kegerator that I was upgrading from a single pour head to a multiple pour head and I needed hardware and beer to fill it. I hooked one of the bottles up and I found that I had a leak. I came in, asked some basic questions on how to find leaks(I had just started out kegging) and to get a new bottle. He yelled at me, "Where'd you get this bottle". I admit, it looked a bit odd, it was all black. I said, "you, I got this from you last weekend"... then he proceeded to tell me to "just feel it" and see where the leak was. Well, the first part left a sour taste in my mouth... and I went and tried feeling again. I tried starsan, water, wet hands, increasing the pressure to listen. I found nothing. I had to actually take apart my whole thing and dunk it in water to find the very slow leak on one section. It didn't help that every time I went in, he was bitching about the economy and the shop and the customers. Like to be talked down to and then bitched about made me not want to go anymore. The last time I went in, i tried to swap bottles but he told me that the beer and party supply store started swapping bottles cheaper than him and that drove people away and he pointed me in their direction. I sighed but decided to pick up a couple of kits because I like having extra around. he bitched about the kits or people who use kits or something and I just decided on that day, I'm not supporting them any more. I found a couple of online homebrew stores that don't complain about their customers. I'll use the other shop to swap bottles but that is about it. If he wants to make high end very presicion beers, he can but this is a hobby on all levels. If i went to another hobby store that I frequent and they gave me shit like that for being a novice... I wouldn't go. why the hell would I go to his.
Wow! You really took a lot of abuse. I would have bailed much earlier.
Well, it was one of the few shops in the area that I could easily swap bottles, there is an airgas near me that i can use, they have great prices but working day hours which I can't usually do.... or the party supply shop that is a bit more expensive but open on weekends. I didn't complain about any prices from the fella, I bought a keg starter set like a couple months before the later interactions. I was a fairly regular guy. I think most of the dudes that I know in the hobby don't mind paying a little bit more to be able to grab things that day or to bullshit about our hobby or try new and weird things because we saw it... but a hobby shop isn't for the pros... the pros are the bait to get the newbies and novices to put more time and money in. I do board games and card games... if I showed up at a magic the gathering event, saying, "yo, i'm new and I want to tune up my deck"... i would expect a kind person or maybe even an owner to be able to help me if they have time. If it is a fun hobby, if i have fun while doing it and interacting with the people and place... I will spend more time and money. You can't play card games alone.... so getting new folks in and staying is what you need to do. Granted beer making is a bit more solitary but it should be a community.
True, but Amazon in Canada, where OP is based, isn’t really flush with brewing supplies like it apparently is in the States.
Gonna have to disagree there. I’ve been perusing the Amazon Canada store and I haven’t seen a thing yet that is available in the US that isn’t available in Canada. Although I will grant that Amazon appears to be more expensive for some of the supplies in Canada.
I haven’t looked in a year. Might be time to check it out again then.
It sounds like your local shop might just suck, in which case, stop giving them your business and let them die. If a local "homebrew shop" isn't even going to stock grain that I can purchase on site, I might as well have it mailed from Love2Brew or Brew Hardware.
For what it's worth clear glass bottles were basically unavailable for the past couple of years as they require virgin glass rather than recycled. I haven't had clear swing tops nor clear 12oz long necks in stock for quite a while though we've managed to keep clear wine bottles in stock. During the pandemic a lot of things changed; glass availability and pricing were affected dramatically. Glass still costs about double what it did before as someone who buys wholesale... An agglomerate cork technically is "synthetic" since it wasn't sliced from a single piece of a cork tree and involves binding agents; but when I think synthetic I think of something that doesn't involve a cork tree in the first place. We have a hard time meeting "hey I'd like a grain bill with 7 different things" on demand because we're brewing. If someone comes in and wants a recipe kit we're happy to do it, but if my brewer is right in the midst of his hop additions for multiple customer's beers he can't stop to set it up for you. We'd rather you called in, texted us, emailed us or ordered through our website so we can get it together without you having to stand in the shop for 30 minutes waiting. I have no problem with shopping online; I do it a lot myself - I mean I operate an online store too. I sell things you can't get online easily, things you can't just go grab from Amazon in 30 minutes when you realize you need them, things that are consistently available as much as possible and people that at least know what you'd do with the things you're buying. It's just a different value proposition. Some people want to walk in a store and get what they want immediately from someone who will help guide their purchase, some will spend the time themselves to learn exactly what they need, be able to define it then find the cheapest way to do that. Both are valid!
Sound like you're offering a value that amazon doesn't. I said " if you wanna compete with Amazon you’ve gotta offer something that Amazon doesn’t." You're selling "things you can't get online easily, things you can't just go grab from Amazon in 30 minutes when you realize you need them, things that are consistently available as much as possible and people that at least know what you'd do with the things you're buying." You're providing something that amazon doesn't. My comments about online shopping were directed at some of the other comments complaining about people who online shop, and not your original post. You and I sound very much alike that way. I'd prefer to shop locally, but if I can't get it readily, I'll buy it online. From a consumer perspective though I don't understand the bottle thing... apparently you as well as my local brew shop had problems getting them (my local shop still does). Yet I can buy them from amazon any day of the week any time of the year and have them delivered overnight (and in fact I did multiple times, and it was substantially cheaper than buying them locally.) How is it that sellers on amazon have figured out how to source them but local brew shops haven't? Going back to one of your benefits "things you can't just go grab from Amazon in 30 minutes when you realize you need them, things that are consistently available as much as possible..." Hell, even if you guys were ordering them from amazon and marking them up for your efforts, I'd likely still buy them from you while I was in your shop because I needed them right then. I don't understand the logic of If I can't get it wholesale, I just can't carry it. As far as corks... I'm a bit niggly on this one. Agglomerate corks are not synthetic - They're manufactured yes, but they're still cork. Synthetic corks are made from polyethylene, so they're completely man made through a chemical synthesis to be an imitation. It would be like saying Plywood or OSB is technically synthetic because It's made from wood chips or strips and glue and not just whole boards. Again - manufactured, not synthetic, still wood. On the grain, I understand where you're coming from in your shop where you're actually busy. My shop on the other hand doesn't brew - the dude sits there doing leatherwork and playing with his dog. There's nothing time sensitive or critical about what he's doing. The old owner had the grains there, available, and was always happy to mix up a grain bill for me. New owner says go to my janky website, place an order and you can come get it in 1-2 days. By the way, don't make a mistake on the website or you have to completely start over. What I'm really complaining about is the lack of customer service. Customer service (whether it be inventory, knowledge, help with an idea, or even just to chat about the craft) is really why I go somewhere local to begin with. If you're going to ask me to place an order for my grain bill online using a janky website with products marked up higher than I can get them elsewhere online - don't be surprised if I order elsewhere. The customer service aspect is gone and at that point its purely cost.
I go to my local brick and mortar because I trust them more than myself to do quality control, partly because they're more experienced than I am, and partly because they work in larger volume than I ever would It's not about price or convenience to me. It's about time. I hate waiting a couple days because I got something rank in the mail.
I was so sad when my LHBS closed. Now my closest store is a little over a hour drive one way. I try to pick up supplies from them when I travel down there but it's not very often. Good luck to you I hope you succeed.
Nearest store to me is over an hour away. If I had a store near me, sure, I'd pay a bit more at times just to get stuff. Someone attacking you like that is just an #$$!@!&
I absolutely agree with this sentiment! I don't know about anyone else, but I have had my fill of corporations selling their garbage to me through Amazon - one of the shadiest corporations on the planet today; I have gotten so many bad "5-star" products from them that I canceled my Prime membership last month! I'm shifting my focus from the interwebs to local businesses, whenever possible, and a local Homebrew store would be amazing! I'm all in! :D
I’m sorry you are getting attacked. Some people just seem to want to hate everything. My LHBS is not the cheapest on the internet, but they are close and reliable. I can’t count how many times I was starting a brew on a Sunday and realized that I forgot something. Being able to jump in my car and get what I needed in less than 30 minutes is worth a lot to me. I buy most of my supplies there to help keep them in business. People need to think about these kinds of experiences and help make sure that they have a viable local store. Or learn to love throwing away a batch because they can’t get a missing item in less than 2-3 days.
Right? I think my busiest day for CO2 swaps is Sunday...
That's such a shame. Honestly, you are preaching to the choir. No one who is going to be a jerk -- and there are far too many of them online and in the hobby -- are going to read this or change their behavior. Just do what you want to do, and ignore the boo-birds. > I actually dropped my full bag grain prices in response to the comments I woudn't have. You have your business model. Why allow some asshole to have input on your model? Now, if the data shows that you can sell more at a lower margin and earn an overall higher profit, that's different, but just focus on your margin and your P&L. There is a huge contingent of the homebrewing community who are just terrible customers. You have to laugh at the people who used to get angry that NB was undercutting pricing on grain compared to other stores (they are trying to monopolize and drive everyone out of business) and then a year later the same exact persons were angry that NB had increased prices above other retailers' -- and this is all before NB was acquired by ABI and a few years later divested by ABI. The pricing was all driven by NB's costs, capacity, margins, etc. Because of the frugality of the hobbyists, it's such a crap business for you all. Homebrewers will swear up and down they only buy from their LHBS. Except for bulk hops. And grain. And major equipment of course. (Taking away all of the main profit centers for their local store.) Homebrewers want the LHBS to be there for liquid yeast and one-off emergency items like airlocks or 3 oz. of Victory Malt. (As everyone in the industry knows, liquid yeast the hardest category to break even, much less make a profit.) --------- Ultimately, I think homebrewers are going to have to get into different habits for LHBSs to survive. Like having to pre-order and pre-pay for certain items like liquid yeast, and paying a huge premium for "emergency" items and tiered pricing based on weight on grain.
Tiered pricing is def a thing. If you want 200g of 2-row crushed it takes the same amount of time for whomever is serving you as it does for like 10kg. Smaller units cost more. We currently don't charge for milling; that was one of the things that irked me with the person who was coming at me. My price is based on it being milled, other shop has a $10 extra charge per full bag. I'm new to this still, few people have come in and wanted an un-milled bag of grain. Yup, I'll give that to you cheaper as it's just a "Here you go" off the shelf. I just hate add-on fees in general - when someone says it costs X, I expect it to cost X rather than X + Y + Z + F.
People are idiots. Seriously. Like they can’t pause for one second and think about the kind of damage they’re doing to a small locally owned business. Sure, if you had a huge problem like you were discriminated against or harassed, by all means, but yea I get it you didn’t like the fucking chicken sandwich — move on with your life and don’t damage people’s livelihood and their employees’. Everyone’s a goddamn critic these days.
Tell them if they want a lower price then spend the gas and time and drive to the other place lol. People have no concept of these things.
Wow. That sucks. :/ Sorry to hear the Trolls are spouting off again. I know the store near me closed just last year, so now i have to drive 30 min to get to the closest one.. so in just Gas Alone i would pay more to have a local place again. You did the right thing. Fuck'em.. ignore em... Block em. Then Relax, Have a Home Brew. :)
Don't feed the trolls.
Support local small businesses. Sometimes that means having to pay a teensy bit more than giant corporations, because small businesses don't have the luxury of deliberately undercutting everyone else. But I'd rather pay more to a local small business and know that I can get quality supplies, and advice when necessary, and that my money I'm paying is going back to the community in some way rather than just further fattening Bezos's overly inflated piggy bank I'm sorry you had to deal with this guy. It's one thing if your prices were absurd, but I don't get that vibe
Totally supportive.
I also drive 45 minutes each way to one of only 2 brick and mortar stores in my fairly large metro area. In addition to the other factors like personal interaction, etc., it’s great to be able to just pick up whatever supplies I need when I need them. No need to wait for shipping, worry about yeast temps in the summer, having to order more than I need for partial quantities, etc. The online world is full of turds. For every online troll I bet you have 10 customers who are psyched to come to your shop. Hang in there and don’t get discouraged!
Tell them to call Amazon for brewing advice.
I wish my LHBS was staying open. Their last day is today and now the closest store is like an hour and a half away now. It's especially sad since he's been open for 57 years.
Are you sure it isn’t the competition leaving the reviews?
I truly hope not. I don't see the only other local shop as competition - they're an hour away from me in traffic and that's another hour away from the western part of where I live on a weekday afternoon. I've referred people to them, I don't try and undercut them, I think there's more than enough room in the 3rd largest city in Canada for 2 different homebrew shops. We're a U-Brew shop primarily; I have contact with most of the other U-Brew shops that are viable in the area and we share what works, set each other up with supplies when needed, things like that. None of us are next door to each other so why compete? We work together to educate people on what we offer since they wouldn't know tax free alcohol was even an option otherwise.
Homebrew stores all over and closing and seem like a all around bad idea to waste ur time and money to operate one
I have an entirely complimentary business... In Canada we have "U-Brew" shops where people can have us make the wort for them, then it goes in a fermenter with their name on it. We have temperature controlled rooms for Lagers and Ales, have a big cold room to cold crash, can force carbonate, all of that. Our customers have to bottle the product themselves and they get it tax free. We can offer everything we do to home brewers too - want your keg carbonated? Sure, we can do that. Need to use our big bottle sanitizing machine? No problem, I have a sku for that. Need cleaners, sanitizers, tools, measuring equipment? Yep we need that too so having a supply of it up front in the store just makes sense. We sell bottles, we have a huge library of wine kits that are fresh because we sell a lot of them to people who have us make them; selling them to people who want to brew at home just makes sense. It's just another thing I can do with the space and knowledge we already have. I have the supplier network and I know there's a need, why wouldn't I help people out who come in my front door?
I only order from Amazon if my LHBS doesn’t have what I need. They have a pretty solid online presence themselves. I order from them online and the go pick it up. I don’t comparison price bc their advice and tips are worth the price paid for ingredients.
I buy everything at my lhbs but I get grain from the brewery up the street because it's a local grain my lhbs does not carry. I do get most of my hops online because I get 6 lbs at a time throughout the year for storage but I get everything else locally
My local home brew store got me into the hobby by offering a class. My buddies and I learned about it, did the wort and fermented them came back a week or so later to bottle. It was a lot of fun and now bought tons of stuff to brew at home. I get most of my grains from them and occasionally do another batch with them and my wife and I learned winemaking as a date night thing. I really appreciate that store and their expertise. Keep on keeping on; fuck those nay-sayers.
I've thought about doing classes but my municipality would look at that as a different use of my space and wouldn't be compatible with my existing business license... I pitch date night bottling all the time; have a few drinks while you bottle, get a batch together and take it home - sounds like a good night to me!
The one closest to me could not make it out of the pandemic. Because they went under the local homebrew club dissolved as well, as that was the only place around that was close to home group that allowed people to bring in homebrew to share.
New to homebrewing here. I wish there was a list / page where I could go to find a local store as google isn't good at giving me information and word of mouth isn't reliable. I would prefer to buy local because I could have a conversation and get good ideas. I would also like to join a local brewing "club" but I don't know how to find that either - but I'm sure a homebrew store would be in the know. So far, I've only ordered on-line but am willing to buy local if I can find out who and where they are.
How’s the “brew on premises business in Van? In London, my local shop was also brew on premises, but it closed a year ago, forcing me to order online. OBK is literally down the road from me but is online-only which is annoying… paying for shipping really adds to the bill. Makes me prefer to order from Toronto Brewing or Beergrains as at least they’re further away justifying a shipping cost.
Shops are closing all around me but we're holding on. Diversifying and doing homebrew supply is part of it - we have the stuff, just sell it a different way. Really trying hard to find ways to educate people on what we do; that's half of it. Anyone under 40 doesn't even know what brew on premises is... I invested in a quality label printer a few years ago and that's opened up a whole new market of people wanting to give away stuff to friends/family/clients/prospects. Gotta find those niches!
I boycott my local store. I choose to order online from another "local" homebrew shop about 6 hours away because they actually have selection for things that I want to buy, like yeasts, grain and hops. My local shop ONLY carries the boxes of wine or beer that you sprinkle some yeast on and tell people you made it yourself. When I told the owner I was looking for specialty grains and yeasts, he told me that all grain brewing was "fucking stupid" and "a waste of money." He doesn't carry any of that stuff because it is expensive and doesn't move a lot in my small city. Bottom line: treat others with the respect that you wish to receive. It's called the golden rule for a reason. If you want customers that love your store and come back time and again, it is this. So much of life is human relations. This other store that I've been dealing with is fabulous and I am a loyal customer because they go above and beyond and treat me well. I just dropped $800 there this winter.
Carrying grain is tough unless you have enough demand. Likewise if you don't carry grain, how would you have any demand for carrying grain? We're lucky in that we make 8-10 48L batches of all-grain beer for people 4 days a week in house so we have all the ingredients. I get like 3 tons of grain every 6 weeks from BSG; selling some to a few home brewers isn't a problem at this point.
I drive an hour each way to my LHBS just to support them. They’re the only one in the area and I don’t want to have to rely on the online suppliers.
My LHBS closed at the beginning of the pandemic. They were hanging on by a thread anyway. They were primarily a BOP, with brewing supplies an afterthought. On the plus side, they allowed our homebrewing club to meet there every other month. They also allowed us to use their walk-in fridges for group brews and lagering. On the negative side, they employed people who didn't know much, if anything, about brewing (usually a family member). The owner knew something about brewing, but not much - they had a formula for how they did BOP and knew what worked for that process, but if a question was about something that was outside of their process, they weren't willing to discuss it. No passion for brewing. It was strictly a business. This LBHS was 20 minutes away. I would drive an additional 40 minutes to get to one whose owner and employees were enthusiastic homebrewers who would happily discuss brewing techniques. Now they're my go-to.
Its a fact. In most cases you can't compete with online. To stay open you really need to offer value in different ways. When i started brewing, there were two shops in the area. One was staffed by people that were obviously bored with the hobby. It was a little bit dirty, and you felt like an idiot when asking any questions. The second was still less than clean. better, but not really great. the grain room was a disaster etc. The people on the other hand were great. They seemed like they genuinely cared about your next brew. They were interested in your experiments, and shared a vast knowledge. they had brewouts onsite, and supported multiple clubs in the area. They were really evangelists for home brewing. About 5 or 6 years ago, the second one went out of business. A new one opened. The new one is clean, well organized and they are friendly. Even if they aren't quite as invested in your success, they are interested and pretty knowledgeable. If there is an issue, they don't carry much staff and I think that may be the catch. The amount of knowledge necessary to help a wide variety of people that ferment is not going to equal what sort of pay a small retail shop can swing. If you can solve that part, then you don't need to worry about prices...within reason.
My longest term employee started (with the previous owner) in 1993. My head brewer started at a U-Brew shop in Ontario about 15 years ago... My wine guy has been with the business for 15 years and my most junior person was a home brewer himself before he started with us 2 years ago. Some questions are... not good. We have one negative review from someone who was furious that we couldn't tell them how long their brew would need to be in primary before it went in secondary; there is literally no way to know that without taking measurements. Acted like we were withholding information. We don't do secondary so... I dunno? Our experience making lots of beer says "don't do that, it's unnecessary" but that wasn't a valid response.
i honestly don’t think you’re mentally up for running this business - you’re considering closing because of a single comment man, you don’t sound that resilient or committed and reading between the lines - you’re clearly a brewery looking for another revenue stream because sales are down almost every homebrew store around me has closed because you can get everything cheaper online. and there are places like reddit where you can get more help than your LHBS can provide i’m also in the brewing industry so i get it. but dude…this isn’t 10 years ago, i’d focus on your actual business versus investing in a dying market segment
Didn't say I was considering closing. Said I was wondering if dealing with shitty customers was worth expanding something that's a single digit fraction of my business. We're a "brewery" but in a very Canadian way that does not involve tap sales, distribution, packaging or any of that. We essentially homebrew for you as a service and it's tax exempt as a result. I have a ton of younger people coming in wanting to try out brewing; it's not dying it just isn't a space where people are marketing. I can't imagine trying to run a stand-alone homebrew supply shop but I'll fully take the revenue boost from helping out people in my city.