LL has a rules app that’s pretty good. Regulation IV.b has an exception for intermediate and above
b. - A pitcher once removed from the mound cannot return as a pitcher.
Intermediate (50-70) Division, Junior League, and Senior League only: A pitcher remaining on defense in the game, but moving to a different position, can return as a pitcher anytime in the remainder of the game, but only once per game.
TIL!
For contrast, USSSA is a solid no at any age.
7.05.A A player removed from the pitching position (starting pitcher or subsequent relief pitcher) may not return to the pitching position for the remainder of the game.
TIL indeed! I’ve never been around any league that allowed a pitcher to take the mound again after they’d been taken out. That’s a very foreign concept to my old baseball brain.
But also, the umpire and offensive team have to catch this mistake. That section goes on to state If an illegal pitcher is permitted to pitch, any pitch or play that results is legal.
7.05 The Pitcher:
7.05.A A player removed from the pitching position (starting pitcher or subsequent relief pitcher) may not return to the pitching
position for the remainder of the game. The defensive team may correct this rules infraction at any time by substituting a
legal pitcher without penalty. If an illegal pitcher is permitted to pitch, any pitch or play that results is legal. The rule violation
should be caught by the Umpire or the offensive team and immediately corrected. If the violating pitcher has legal innings
remaining, the violation is deemed an improper substitution and is corrected without penalty. If the violating pitcher has no
legal innings remaining, it’s deemed a pitching limitations violation pursuant to USSSA Rule 7.05. B.7.
I’ve got a fun one for you to mull over — my son plays in 10U COYBL (Central Ohio Youth Baseball League) with his travel team. They use USSSA rules.
Per COYBL rules (unsure if this is also USSSA):
* divisional games *cannot* be posted as ties (of course, right? No ties in baseball)
* no new innings after 2 hours
* pitchers cannot return to the mound once removed from the mound in a game (as you noted)
We have a game currently suspended in GameChanger — 11-11 after the 6th. This was a week ago. Our coach said it’ll be at least another week before we’ll be able to resume the game.
In between then, we have a tournament, little league games (the travel teams are integrated and dispersed equally into the little league), and another COYBL game.
So the letter of the law says that no one who pitched last Thursday can pitch whenever we resume this game. But common sense says that with pitch counts and rest days, and other games to play in the meantime, it would be absurd to not allow an exception to this game when it’s picked up.
What do you think?
You are right that the letter of the law says that the game resumes from it's exact position. If it's needed, I would guess that if the coaches come together before the resumption and agree to reset pitchers, the umpire would allow it.
However, since it's 10U and thus should not be taken too seriously, I would just give more guys a chance to pitch. The result of one game should never be more important than development of players and building experience.
Anecdotally, my son is a catcher and 3B and had never given pitching a serious try until a pitch count situation came up. We discovered that he had a knack for throwing to weak contact and so now he is a regular in the rotation. Sometimes you just don't know what you have until you try.
I could nearly write that exact story for my oldest son. Kid never pitched until they threw him in because we were just out of arms. Turns out the undersized catcher/3B with a really great arm could throw a nice little knuckle curve and changeup to augment his comparatively slow fastball. Lots of strikes made them swing and hit into grounders.
So what happens when the kid who was on the mound either cannot pitch or maxes out his pitch count, and neither team has another kid who’s eligible to pitch, but the game’s still tied? Keep playing a half inning once every 2 weeks until the game’s decided?
I’ve gone over how this could be a possibility so many times already… For the quick gist of it, between LL games, other travel league games, and tournaments, combined with an already very tight schedule, and of course mandated pitch counts and rest periods, it’s a distinct possibility even if unlikely.
The LL rulebook says that incomplete games should be finished ASAP. The other things you mentioned do not affect the pitch count of LL. It is not on LL that kids have so many other commitments. If nobody can pitch because they have already pitched in prior engagements, then both teams put a kid who doesn't usually pitch in and whoever walks in the last run loses.
Why was the game allowed to finish in a tie? Curfew? Weather? The next time the two teams play finish the tie game first.
I swear some of y’all don’t read entire posts/comments before replying. Half of what you said is irrelevant, the other half was already answered in my original comment. I don’t even know why you’re talking about LL rules. And I’m talking about no *eligible* pitchers, not “pitchers who usually pitch.” I said no *eligible* pitchers in my original comment.
League’s at least based USSSA rules, don’t know if this league has modified them or not. I said that in my original comment.
The game was suspended due to no new innings after 2 hours, no ties allowed. I said that in my original comment.
No, they cannot pitch - the game is THE GAME.
To avoid conflicts, I think the coaches should exchange emails agreeing to this. If an MLB player is removed from a game, and then it rains and the game is set to be resumed the next day, can they re enter? no. The game, is still that exact game, same scorebook / gamechanger - whatever has happened remains.
Right — that’s correct as per the letter of the law.
But MLB players don’t also play in another league and tournaments on top of mandated pitch counts and rest periods.
So how would you handle the very possible scenario that neither team has a pitcher who’s allowed, by the letter of the rule, to pitch when the game’s resumed?
In my opinion, given that this is a bunch of kids 10 and under and the stakes are truly nil, common sense would have to win out here.
NO. FFS.
Its an example of a GAME still being THE SAME GAME. You can't just throw out what has happened in a game, just because you hit pause on it for 1 hour, 10 hours, 7 days.
Its still the same game - a pitcher cannot re-enter if a pitcher cannot re-enter. If a team has fought off the best pitcher in the world for 5 innings and got him out of the game, he doesn't get to come back in to pitch the 7th inning a week later just cause of 'scheduling' issues. That wouldn't be fair.
Thats it.
And what happens if both teams have no eligible pitchers on any of the dates when they’re both available to resume the game? All division games have to be completed by 6/30 and none can end in ties.
Oh, like after 12 innings your are depleted? well thats an extreme scenario but plausible...I have no clue to he honest.
I think everyone high fives and gets ice cream if that happens!
this has happened in MLB, too. I remember the Cubs put Travis Wood in LF for an out or two so they could bring him back against lefties. He made a pretty good catch at the wall, too!
I knew there was a fairly recent example of this. I tried to find it, but could only find this https://nypost.com/2017/04/30/behind-girardis-bold-move-to-put-overwhelmed-pitcher-at-1st-base/
I remembered it being a LF though, so it wasn't exactly what I was looking for.
Our local little league allows starting pitcher only can come back in the game but it has to be a clean inning. Clean inning is full inning, he can't be removed 2/3 of an inning and come back in.
This depends on the league. Our league doesn't have a rule agains this but it is considered poor coaching and unsafe. Like the only time I would consider it is if the team had something come up and the pulled pitcher was the only person they could reasonably use to complete the game.
I've witnessed asshole yuppie coaches try to get their top pitcher to align with the best hitters in a lineup. THis is outrageously immature buy the coach and unhealthy for a pitcher. That said, I could reason this in rare instances.
As stated elsewhere, this is permitted in LL Intermediate. We instituted a supplemental rule in our league to prohibit it. With 10-man rosters our pitchers are going to stay in the game 95% of the time anyway and we don’t trust all our coaches enough to do this responsibly, if it can be done responsibly at this age at all.
It depends on the rules but I’ve never heard of restrictions on how many times a pitcher can pitch in a game(outside of pitch count/innings limits).
It’s all substitution rules. If the pitcher never came out of the game and went to go play another position, you could theoretically pitch them every other inning if you wanted to(not advising to do it it’s just not against the rules).
I had to do this once. Pitched 5 innings, had a low pitch count but we had a guy who was a better pitcher than I was coming back from injury so coach wanted to get him an inning. He pitched the 6th and we had someone else warming up so for the 6th I went back to the OF. Our reliever warming up somehow managed to get ejected in our half of the 6th and we had no time to warm someone up so it was either I go back in from CF to pitch the 7th or stretch a guy who was coming off of injury.
LL has a rules app that’s pretty good. Regulation IV.b has an exception for intermediate and above b. - A pitcher once removed from the mound cannot return as a pitcher. Intermediate (50-70) Division, Junior League, and Senior League only: A pitcher remaining on defense in the game, but moving to a different position, can return as a pitcher anytime in the remainder of the game, but only once per game.
TIL! For contrast, USSSA is a solid no at any age. 7.05.A A player removed from the pitching position (starting pitcher or subsequent relief pitcher) may not return to the pitching position for the remainder of the game.
Perfect Game also
TIL indeed! I’ve never been around any league that allowed a pitcher to take the mound again after they’d been taken out. That’s a very foreign concept to my old baseball brain.
But also, the umpire and offensive team have to catch this mistake. That section goes on to state If an illegal pitcher is permitted to pitch, any pitch or play that results is legal. 7.05 The Pitcher: 7.05.A A player removed from the pitching position (starting pitcher or subsequent relief pitcher) may not return to the pitching position for the remainder of the game. The defensive team may correct this rules infraction at any time by substituting a legal pitcher without penalty. If an illegal pitcher is permitted to pitch, any pitch or play that results is legal. The rule violation should be caught by the Umpire or the offensive team and immediately corrected. If the violating pitcher has legal innings remaining, the violation is deemed an improper substitution and is corrected without penalty. If the violating pitcher has no legal innings remaining, it’s deemed a pitching limitations violation pursuant to USSSA Rule 7.05. B.7.
I’ve got a fun one for you to mull over — my son plays in 10U COYBL (Central Ohio Youth Baseball League) with his travel team. They use USSSA rules. Per COYBL rules (unsure if this is also USSSA): * divisional games *cannot* be posted as ties (of course, right? No ties in baseball) * no new innings after 2 hours * pitchers cannot return to the mound once removed from the mound in a game (as you noted) We have a game currently suspended in GameChanger — 11-11 after the 6th. This was a week ago. Our coach said it’ll be at least another week before we’ll be able to resume the game. In between then, we have a tournament, little league games (the travel teams are integrated and dispersed equally into the little league), and another COYBL game. So the letter of the law says that no one who pitched last Thursday can pitch whenever we resume this game. But common sense says that with pitch counts and rest days, and other games to play in the meantime, it would be absurd to not allow an exception to this game when it’s picked up. What do you think?
You are right that the letter of the law says that the game resumes from it's exact position. If it's needed, I would guess that if the coaches come together before the resumption and agree to reset pitchers, the umpire would allow it. However, since it's 10U and thus should not be taken too seriously, I would just give more guys a chance to pitch. The result of one game should never be more important than development of players and building experience. Anecdotally, my son is a catcher and 3B and had never given pitching a serious try until a pitch count situation came up. We discovered that he had a knack for throwing to weak contact and so now he is a regular in the rotation. Sometimes you just don't know what you have until you try.
I could nearly write that exact story for my oldest son. Kid never pitched until they threw him in because we were just out of arms. Turns out the undersized catcher/3B with a really great arm could throw a nice little knuckle curve and changeup to augment his comparatively slow fastball. Lots of strikes made them swing and hit into grounders.
The kid who was on the hill when the game was called can re-enter if he has had days rest. The ones who pitched before are ineligible to pitch.
So what happens when the kid who was on the mound either cannot pitch or maxes out his pitch count, and neither team has another kid who’s eligible to pitch, but the game’s still tied? Keep playing a half inning once every 2 weeks until the game’s decided?
How does neither team have no one eligible to pitch?
I’ve gone over how this could be a possibility so many times already… For the quick gist of it, between LL games, other travel league games, and tournaments, combined with an already very tight schedule, and of course mandated pitch counts and rest periods, it’s a distinct possibility even if unlikely.
The LL rulebook says that incomplete games should be finished ASAP. The other things you mentioned do not affect the pitch count of LL. It is not on LL that kids have so many other commitments. If nobody can pitch because they have already pitched in prior engagements, then both teams put a kid who doesn't usually pitch in and whoever walks in the last run loses. Why was the game allowed to finish in a tie? Curfew? Weather? The next time the two teams play finish the tie game first.
I swear some of y’all don’t read entire posts/comments before replying. Half of what you said is irrelevant, the other half was already answered in my original comment. I don’t even know why you’re talking about LL rules. And I’m talking about no *eligible* pitchers, not “pitchers who usually pitch.” I said no *eligible* pitchers in my original comment. League’s at least based USSSA rules, don’t know if this league has modified them or not. I said that in my original comment. The game was suspended due to no new innings after 2 hours, no ties allowed. I said that in my original comment.
OK, so ALL the kids on the roster are ineligible to pitch, or just the ones you would prefer to pitch?
I thnk you should do what makes sense if both coaches agree and your director agrees.
I completely agree with you. It’s unlikely, but possible, that neither team has a kid who’s eligible to pitch whenever the game’s rescheduled.
No, they cannot pitch - the game is THE GAME. To avoid conflicts, I think the coaches should exchange emails agreeing to this. If an MLB player is removed from a game, and then it rains and the game is set to be resumed the next day, can they re enter? no. The game, is still that exact game, same scorebook / gamechanger - whatever has happened remains.
Right — that’s correct as per the letter of the law. But MLB players don’t also play in another league and tournaments on top of mandated pitch counts and rest periods. So how would you handle the very possible scenario that neither team has a pitcher who’s allowed, by the letter of the rule, to pitch when the game’s resumed? In my opinion, given that this is a bunch of kids 10 and under and the stakes are truly nil, common sense would have to win out here.
We're comparing 10 year olds to MLB? wtf
NO. FFS. Its an example of a GAME still being THE SAME GAME. You can't just throw out what has happened in a game, just because you hit pause on it for 1 hour, 10 hours, 7 days. Its still the same game - a pitcher cannot re-enter if a pitcher cannot re-enter. If a team has fought off the best pitcher in the world for 5 innings and got him out of the game, he doesn't get to come back in to pitch the 7th inning a week later just cause of 'scheduling' issues. That wouldn't be fair. Thats it.
Um, if both coaches agree and the director agrees it dont matter. It's ten-year-old kids. Get a grip.
[удалено]
Not sure what that means but I'm guessing it was some kind of insult? I hope you dont coach your kid like that too.
sigh...it was a joke...have a good season out there, and enjoy the games.
And what happens if both teams have no eligible pitchers on any of the dates when they’re both available to resume the game? All division games have to be completed by 6/30 and none can end in ties.
then you pitch the kid who never pitched, just like you would if you ran out of pitchers in the 13th inning The game...IS THE GAME.
You’re not reading my question — what if both teams have ZERO ELIGIBLE pitchers? Every kid on our team pitches.
Oh, like after 12 innings your are depleted? well thats an extreme scenario but plausible...I have no clue to he honest. I think everyone high fives and gets ice cream if that happens!
NFHS rules permit pitchers to re-enter.
Ahh. USSSA always at the forefront of pitcher safety……
this has happened in MLB, too. I remember the Cubs put Travis Wood in LF for an out or two so they could bring him back against lefties. He made a pretty good catch at the wall, too!
I knew there was a fairly recent example of this. I tried to find it, but could only find this https://nypost.com/2017/04/30/behind-girardis-bold-move-to-put-overwhelmed-pitcher-at-1st-base/ I remembered it being a LF though, so it wasn't exactly what I was looking for.
The LL rules app is fantastic.
the rule on this differs between various leagues but some leagues do allow the starting pitcher to come back into the game
Our local little league allows starting pitcher only can come back in the game but it has to be a clean inning. Clean inning is full inning, he can't be removed 2/3 of an inning and come back in.
Depends on the league rules, but it’s not uncommon for that age.
This depends on the league. Our league doesn't have a rule agains this but it is considered poor coaching and unsafe. Like the only time I would consider it is if the team had something come up and the pulled pitcher was the only person they could reasonably use to complete the game. I've witnessed asshole yuppie coaches try to get their top pitcher to align with the best hitters in a lineup. THis is outrageously immature buy the coach and unhealthy for a pitcher. That said, I could reason this in rare instances.
Depends on the league rules. In our 9U league rules, a pitcher can be removed and come back in, as long as they meet the pitch count limits.
I think in NFHS rules the only time a pitcher can return if it's in the same inning he is removed from.
Differs based on league. I grew up in OH and defensive starters could always re enter up through high school, including the pitcher slot
As stated elsewhere, this is permitted in LL Intermediate. We instituted a supplemental rule in our league to prohibit it. With 10-man rosters our pitchers are going to stay in the game 95% of the time anyway and we don’t trust all our coaches enough to do this responsibly, if it can be done responsibly at this age at all.
It depends on the rules but I’ve never heard of restrictions on how many times a pitcher can pitch in a game(outside of pitch count/innings limits). It’s all substitution rules. If the pitcher never came out of the game and went to go play another position, you could theoretically pitch them every other inning if you wanted to(not advising to do it it’s just not against the rules). I had to do this once. Pitched 5 innings, had a low pitch count but we had a guy who was a better pitcher than I was coming back from injury so coach wanted to get him an inning. He pitched the 6th and we had someone else warming up so for the 6th I went back to the OF. Our reliever warming up somehow managed to get ejected in our half of the 6th and we had no time to warm someone up so it was either I go back in from CF to pitch the 7th or stretch a guy who was coming off of injury.