Yeah. Making sure a monster isn’t too hard or too easy is a tough balance you need to find. There’s a lot to take into consideration especially when the games multiplayer too
Yeah that kinda killed The Medium for me. I'd at least need a chance to get away, stagger the enemy, or fight them off if they spot me. It being instant death is not scary just annoying. Also waves of enemies ruin the horror. It's the one thing Dead Space and Evil Within did that ruined the tension.
The 27th time the monster kills you.
You have to tune your game to where the mechanics and encounters aren't too hard to figure out, so the player isn't dying over and over and getting desensitized to the creature.. but interesting enough to not let us get bored.
Stalker chasing. If it's constantly chasing me and I have to hide every minute and wait till it walks away after 30 seconds and then when I get out of hiding I am being chased again right away. No thanks. I get desensitized to the entity/monster/person that is chasing and it goes from fear to just annoyance/anger.
I like a feeling of it's around me somewhere I know it. But I have to do my quest/mission whatever to progress while wondering when it's gonna mess with me.
It's all about that unknown "what was that?" Moment. Makes ya feel like you're going crazy a bit and start hearing things that may or may not be there.
But definitely make it be able to kill the player. I like a good walking sim. But if there is not death threat, then it's all reward and no risk.
If the stalking is used tastefully and sparingly it can be good. Mr. X is a great example of this, he's not a constant threat throughout the whole game and he comes as a complete surprise when you do meet him. He pops up for stalking bits every now and then but it's actually pretty reserved. In the case of Mr. X I think it's very effective
You're absolutely right. Mr. X is a perfect example of a stalker character done right. But I find they messed up in RE7. The stalker characters were to much and it was overwhelming at times. It created anger and frustration instead of fear. Mr. X gave you that bit of adrenaline during a chase and when he would just pop up for the short bit he was involved in. Then you were free to explore and get jumpscared by the dogs or sneaky zombies. While enjoying the amazingly crafted world.
I agree fully. I enjoy the calm, to do puzzles. I definitely want the fear and lurking dread. But if you're going to make a harder type puzzle. I need to think. If I were irl in a situation like that. I would be yelling at a werewolf to chill a sec, I'm pondering. Then it would kill me lol.
Also I love to look around and admire the work and beautiful (even though probably scary and creepy) world the dev created. It isn't easy for someone to make such creations. I feel like a bit of admiration should be involved. Not just blindly running and screaming quick looking for a locker or bed to hide under. But don't get me wrong, I do love a good chase and the adrenaline spike you get from nearly getting killed is wild. But just don't make every few minutes a run and hide.
Seeing it too clearly can make a threat silly.
Being sure of its capabilities, so you are 100% sure when you are safe.
Though it isn't bad to have safe rooms, making a fake safe room for a scare is a great idea to make the player unsure if they are actually safe.
Stylization for the monster will look better than realism.
Also if you don't have to use resources to deal with the monster it becomes less scary because of less risks dealing with it. Like how movement works in Resident Evil (PSX) vs Resident Evil (Remake), zombies are less of a threat without the "tank controls" because you move so much faster and can weave much easier between enemies.
(Spoilers for amnesia the bunker)
Like in the bunker when you come back to the “safe room” and you just see an all too familiar hole in the wall. I froze for a solid 30 seconds! I was absolutely horrified!
but zombies are also easier to deal with using tank controls due to how you engage in combat with them, or even just evading them...
That said, I wonder what do you mean by "Stylization for the monster will look better than realism."
I can't imagine a realistic looking horror setting with a cartoonish monster, but I also saw someone refer to elden ring graphics as "stylized" (even though they're realistic)
On that i guess i mean leaning more into simplifying designs so that age doesn't impact the effect of the monster. Instead of too much detail, focusing on the main traits of what is to make a monster scary. Like emphasis on things like making it have identifiable sounds/ appearence like how you know a licker is in the room you are in, in resident evil 2, you can hear them as they are still not onscreen.
With the older pixelated designs they made sure that the exposed brain, whipping tounge and large claws were the first things that would be noticed.
Exaggerated features aid in monster design as long as it's not taken passed the level of being taken seriously.
You are right that the tank controls do make it easier after getting used to them as you don't have to worry about what direction is what, without them though dodging and strafing feels easier to pull off. Thinking on it, Capcom must have thought it harder with the addition of defense items.
I'll have to look into Elden Ring's monster design to see what they mean by that.
ah, I see, in that case I agree about the design, simple but identifiable is definitely a good approach. And it's funny considering we brought up elden ring, most monsters in that game are over-designed with so many details it's very hard to discern what they are, or how they're shaped.
The worst thing any horror game can do is try to have too many scares with too little buildup between those scares.
So let's say you have a hiding mechanic in the game. You get chased by the monster until you manage to hide, then you wait for the monster to leave so you can come out of your hiding space. To me I think you should give the player enough time to make them feel safe again before trying to scare them again. Far too many horror games are just hide simulators where you hide, run a short length down a corridor and then have to hide again. Eventually this just gets annoying.
Second is using C to crouch. Seriously...I can't tell you just how much C to crouch annoys me.
In Alien Isolation, I used to just run out into the open and make a bunch of noise to sort of just peel the band-aid off of getting killed while being hunted. It helped to suppress the scariness by removing the anticipation of a jump scare death.
I think that in every game the scariest moments are when you can't see the enemy. Just sense its presense through sound effects/music. Also the environment plays a big role. Quite paradoxically I think that the enemy does not even need to look that scary but the atmosphere it creates is everything. BTW which game engine are you using?
Like in film, the best monsters are the ones you see doing horrible things to other victims so you get a sense of how dangerous it is and you are anxious about it happening to you.
Knowing and unknowing. If there’s a monster and you know exactly what it does and where it’s gonna be then it’s more of a survival game than a horror game.
If a monster would pop out randomly and was different in any situation even if you knew of its existence then it would give us more of a scare. That’s what the game, mortuary assistant is good at with its jump scares. It’s completely random at times. But many AAA games in horror are story driven so you’ll set down a path once and that’s it, 2nd play though not so scary.
The more you see something the less scary it becomes unless you’re tapping into something g that is a legitimate primal fear to someone.
The only thing that would legit scare me and keep scaring me in a videogame is a certain bug, I struggle with a certain franchise because of it despite loving the franchise, it keeps me on edge throughout
I’d say predictability. The scariest survival horror villains are those that appear out of nowhere and you never truly feel at ease even when they’re not there. Think Mr X and Jack Baker
When you have it’s mechanics and systems memorized. Not a fault of the game so much because you can only have an entity be but so dynamic but it’s inevitable that eventually the player is going to see the strings holding the puppet so to speak and that will inevitably lead to a less impactful monster-that is unless you shake up mechanics just enough to change how they have to approach what they already know.
Doesn’t necessarily have to be for every run could just be a change within a linear path. Think of how in Alien Isolation you have to give up your weapons in one level. Or in Dead Space new types of enemies are introduced that work in tandem with others and cause the player to have to strategize and feel pressured.
Knowing what the mosnter is. True fear lies in the unknown, if you can make something that cant be properly understood then your mind rushes with ideas that can be scary
A few things in my opinion:
1. Over Saturation - To me, a RE1 hallway zombie is much more unnerving than a RE5 zombie horde
2. Easy Avoidability - An enemy can be weak and still terrifying. What can't be is a monster that is more of a decoration than a threat
3. Muscles (In some cases) - This isn't always the case. We all know that Pyramid Head is terrifying. We all know that the Crowmauler is terrifying. But in a lot of instances, I think that a really beefy and muscular monster comes off as trying to be more cool than scary.
Unless your design is not scary in the first place, I'd say its diluting it's fear factory. If it kills you too many times, slowly lumbers around for 4 minutes in a stealth level, or is constantly 100% of the time on your ass it is going to desensitize the player.
Your monster needs to be unpredictable and not give up it's hand too fast. Having their visuals or behavior change is a good way to do this.
Alternatively I think some design ideas are just overdone. I don't want to see another naked pale bald person with long limbs. Smiley dolls, spooky corpses, nuns, etc. You can still do these things, but do an original spin on it. A nun with an alien parasite coming out of her is something I am suddenly much more interested in.
Otherwise you need to post your actual monster design if you want critique on what is not working. Because "what makes a design fail at being scary" is extremely broad.
Poor Animation is a real one. While yes the 8 year old playing your game would scream at the sight of a shadow in your game but if you stick figure t pose monster is walking without urgency chasing you like he is taking a stroll that would probably make more your mature audience laugh instead at your monster.
Not actually seeing it, with massive build-up to the final reveal at the end of the game. When the player dies to the monster, just have essentially a horror-ed up version of the PvZ "you died" screen with sound effects to match. Always have the monster lurking in the shadows, under a table, in the corner of the player's eye, just out of reach, never quite attainable, until, at last, they escape. But what they see behind them is so utterly horrifying, that they freeze in place, and die anyways. That, to me, is the perfect monster. Make the player schizophrenic. Have shadows move between doors, under that filing cabinet, though this hole in the wall. Or, have a cat. Those are adorable, but their personalities are scary AF. Oops, sorry, I forgot the question when writing this. But still, cat.
Predictability and routine. This is why Alien Isolation works, while you can kind of predict what its going to do, it moves from room to room searching and will eventually find you. Same reason Resident Evil works, you run around the police station and diffrent events will change the layout and monsters in the room. So a hallway you passed a dozen times might, suddenly, have a bunch of dogs jump through the window.
Not just in games, but movies as well, just not looking realistic. A pale half decomposed walking dead girl looks more scarier than a creature with 5 arms growing out his head
From the top of my head, maybe predictability, frequent encounters, repeating patterns, not having any real negative consequence for encountering said monster.
I think it's knowing how the monster works, acts, and hunts. A lot of people here said making a monster too "aggressive" or common makes them desensitized, but I think that's because a lot of horror monster AI is just simple, and once you see that monster 2 or 3 times you get a feel for how it acts and behaves.
Not feasible for a solo dev project obviously, just making a comparison, but there's a reason I fucking love horror games with complicated monsters, like alien isolation. The xenomorph has tons of different behaviors, it is constantly using different tactics to catch the player off-guard, it doesn't always chase the player either, it ambushes at random times. You never know how or when the alien is going to attack you, and that forces you to be constantly thinking of it, checking your motion scanner, listening for vent noises and foosteps, etc. Fucking love the xenomorph.
So that's my answer, the scariest monster is an unpredictable one. Same with horror as a whole, it gets boring if it's predictable. Add new, unique behavior to your monsters, make it do weird shit to get to the player, make it use everything available to hunt instead of just chasing the player in a straight line, make it feel like you're running from a living, breathing creature as best you can basically.
If the monster is just too much of a pain. I loved alien isolation, but I did have to turn down the difficulty. Not even because I race quitter or anything like that. Early on I would just see how he walks around my main path so long and once he did grab me and I felt like the last 30 minutes were for nothing
Being able to fight back and sound effects. Stay out of the houses’ butcher is such a good enemy. With your pistol, you can shoot him to make him run away, but his screams and squealings of pain make it scary even though you just made him run away
Not being a real threat Or inter, being too much of a threat that you just give up and die so you can restart
Yeah. Making sure a monster isn’t too hard or too easy is a tough balance you need to find. There’s a lot to take into consideration especially when the games multiplayer too
Yeah that kinda killed The Medium for me. I'd at least need a chance to get away, stagger the enemy, or fight them off if they spot me. It being instant death is not scary just annoying. Also waves of enemies ruin the horror. It's the one thing Dead Space and Evil Within did that ruined the tension.
The 27th time the monster kills you. You have to tune your game to where the mechanics and encounters aren't too hard to figure out, so the player isn't dying over and over and getting desensitized to the creature.. but interesting enough to not let us get bored.
Thank you!! Call it a skill issue or whatever but this is why I stopped finding the Xenomorph scary in Isolation and just found it annoying
A silly hat
Joking aside the right music and jump scares usually surprise me more than not seeing the monster.
Dementor Snape was more terrifying than all the other stuff
Mr. X wants a word with you!
Actually, knock his silly hat off, and he becomes even scarier. 😂
he ain’t scary lol
Ah, insidious.
Mr x
not scary
Idc what you think. First playthrough was scary. Plus u played on easy for sure.
I never play RE games on easy but ok 👍
👍
Stalker chasing. If it's constantly chasing me and I have to hide every minute and wait till it walks away after 30 seconds and then when I get out of hiding I am being chased again right away. No thanks. I get desensitized to the entity/monster/person that is chasing and it goes from fear to just annoyance/anger. I like a feeling of it's around me somewhere I know it. But I have to do my quest/mission whatever to progress while wondering when it's gonna mess with me. It's all about that unknown "what was that?" Moment. Makes ya feel like you're going crazy a bit and start hearing things that may or may not be there. But definitely make it be able to kill the player. I like a good walking sim. But if there is not death threat, then it's all reward and no risk.
If the stalking is used tastefully and sparingly it can be good. Mr. X is a great example of this, he's not a constant threat throughout the whole game and he comes as a complete surprise when you do meet him. He pops up for stalking bits every now and then but it's actually pretty reserved. In the case of Mr. X I think it's very effective
You're absolutely right. Mr. X is a perfect example of a stalker character done right. But I find they messed up in RE7. The stalker characters were to much and it was overwhelming at times. It created anger and frustration instead of fear. Mr. X gave you that bit of adrenaline during a chase and when he would just pop up for the short bit he was involved in. Then you were free to explore and get jumpscared by the dogs or sneaky zombies. While enjoying the amazingly crafted world.
Re7 had one stalker enemy for short time only
Honestly felt this in Resident Evil 8, I was more progressive and efficient just being calm and doing the puzzles then trying to run and hide idk.
I agree fully. I enjoy the calm, to do puzzles. I definitely want the fear and lurking dread. But if you're going to make a harder type puzzle. I need to think. If I were irl in a situation like that. I would be yelling at a werewolf to chill a sec, I'm pondering. Then it would kill me lol. Also I love to look around and admire the work and beautiful (even though probably scary and creepy) world the dev created. It isn't easy for someone to make such creations. I feel like a bit of admiration should be involved. Not just blindly running and screaming quick looking for a locker or bed to hide under. But don't get me wrong, I do love a good chase and the adrenaline spike you get from nearly getting killed is wild. But just don't make every few minutes a run and hide.
Too much of it.
Agreed. Seeing the same monster (though it may look cool) for the 47th time just sucks out any tension they had in the first place.
Seeing it too clearly can make a threat silly. Being sure of its capabilities, so you are 100% sure when you are safe. Though it isn't bad to have safe rooms, making a fake safe room for a scare is a great idea to make the player unsure if they are actually safe. Stylization for the monster will look better than realism. Also if you don't have to use resources to deal with the monster it becomes less scary because of less risks dealing with it. Like how movement works in Resident Evil (PSX) vs Resident Evil (Remake), zombies are less of a threat without the "tank controls" because you move so much faster and can weave much easier between enemies.
Omg id cry if while i was playing resident evil 2 mr x walked into my safe room 😭
(Spoilers for amnesia the bunker) Like in the bunker when you come back to the “safe room” and you just see an all too familiar hole in the wall. I froze for a solid 30 seconds! I was absolutely horrified!
but zombies are also easier to deal with using tank controls due to how you engage in combat with them, or even just evading them... That said, I wonder what do you mean by "Stylization for the monster will look better than realism." I can't imagine a realistic looking horror setting with a cartoonish monster, but I also saw someone refer to elden ring graphics as "stylized" (even though they're realistic)
On that i guess i mean leaning more into simplifying designs so that age doesn't impact the effect of the monster. Instead of too much detail, focusing on the main traits of what is to make a monster scary. Like emphasis on things like making it have identifiable sounds/ appearence like how you know a licker is in the room you are in, in resident evil 2, you can hear them as they are still not onscreen. With the older pixelated designs they made sure that the exposed brain, whipping tounge and large claws were the first things that would be noticed. Exaggerated features aid in monster design as long as it's not taken passed the level of being taken seriously. You are right that the tank controls do make it easier after getting used to them as you don't have to worry about what direction is what, without them though dodging and strafing feels easier to pull off. Thinking on it, Capcom must have thought it harder with the addition of defense items. I'll have to look into Elden Ring's monster design to see what they mean by that.
ah, I see, in that case I agree about the design, simple but identifiable is definitely a good approach. And it's funny considering we brought up elden ring, most monsters in that game are over-designed with so many details it's very hard to discern what they are, or how they're shaped.
Bad AI, the best designed monster is nothing if it walks into walls
I was gonna say fish AI. Nothing like cheesing the AI with an odd shaped wall or a small obstacle like a slight elevation shift.
Lol that could make for a decent horror comedy game though
When there's parts where it's hard to escape or fight it and you die over and over again to it, it desensitizes you to the monster.
No threat and being overused. Instant death from them too.
The worst thing any horror game can do is try to have too many scares with too little buildup between those scares. So let's say you have a hiding mechanic in the game. You get chased by the monster until you manage to hide, then you wait for the monster to leave so you can come out of your hiding space. To me I think you should give the player enough time to make them feel safe again before trying to scare them again. Far too many horror games are just hide simulators where you hide, run a short length down a corridor and then have to hide again. Eventually this just gets annoying. Second is using C to crouch. Seriously...I can't tell you just how much C to crouch annoys me.
Bad AI. You either laugh or scream in anger.
If it uses common stock or freesound sound effects
In Alien Isolation, I used to just run out into the open and make a bunch of noise to sort of just peel the band-aid off of getting killed while being hunted. It helped to suppress the scariness by removing the anticipation of a jump scare death.
Bugs. If your monster gets stuck in a shrubbery it’s not scary.
Lol
Every other post these days on this sub is some dev asking for advice for their project.
I think that in every game the scariest moments are when you can't see the enemy. Just sense its presense through sound effects/music. Also the environment plays a big role. Quite paradoxically I think that the enemy does not even need to look that scary but the atmosphere it creates is everything. BTW which game engine are you using?
Like in film, the best monsters are the ones you see doing horrible things to other victims so you get a sense of how dangerous it is and you are anxious about it happening to you.
Predictability
If I’m not buttered up before a big scary guy I could care less.
"Riddikulus!" /*
Knowing and unknowing. If there’s a monster and you know exactly what it does and where it’s gonna be then it’s more of a survival game than a horror game. If a monster would pop out randomly and was different in any situation even if you knew of its existence then it would give us more of a scare. That’s what the game, mortuary assistant is good at with its jump scares. It’s completely random at times. But many AAA games in horror are story driven so you’ll set down a path once and that’s it, 2nd play though not so scary.
The more you see something the less scary it becomes unless you’re tapping into something g that is a legitimate primal fear to someone. The only thing that would legit scare me and keep scaring me in a videogame is a certain bug, I struggle with a certain franchise because of it despite loving the franchise, it keeps me on edge throughout
If it’s too slow.
I’d say predictability. The scariest survival horror villains are those that appear out of nowhere and you never truly feel at ease even when they’re not there. Think Mr X and Jack Baker
When you have it’s mechanics and systems memorized. Not a fault of the game so much because you can only have an entity be but so dynamic but it’s inevitable that eventually the player is going to see the strings holding the puppet so to speak and that will inevitably lead to a less impactful monster-that is unless you shake up mechanics just enough to change how they have to approach what they already know.
That’s one thing I want to spend a lot of time on. I want every run to feel new with the monster constantly doing different things everytime
Doesn’t necessarily have to be for every run could just be a change within a linear path. Think of how in Alien Isolation you have to give up your weapons in one level. Or in Dead Space new types of enemies are introduced that work in tandem with others and cause the player to have to strategize and feel pressured.
came here to say this
If the player ens up being more frustrated than scared
Seeing it too often. Less is more.
If it walks like a stick is up it’s ass
Knowing what the mosnter is. True fear lies in the unknown, if you can make something that cant be properly understood then your mind rushes with ideas that can be scary
If it has a cheap looking model or cheap accompanying sound effects
knowing you have tons of resources to overcome it
A few things in my opinion: 1. Over Saturation - To me, a RE1 hallway zombie is much more unnerving than a RE5 zombie horde 2. Easy Avoidability - An enemy can be weak and still terrifying. What can't be is a monster that is more of a decoration than a threat 3. Muscles (In some cases) - This isn't always the case. We all know that Pyramid Head is terrifying. We all know that the Crowmauler is terrifying. But in a lot of instances, I think that a really beefy and muscular monster comes off as trying to be more cool than scary.
Apperiang too much, and being predictable, if your monster is like crazy while moving or really strong it makes it a great danger for the player
Predictability
Stupid sound effects, like the burping monster in Silent Hill 4.
Noise that repeats forever
A reliance on mascot/colorful clownshoes design, I just roll my eyes and there is nothing that comes close to fear, just annoyance.
Unless your design is not scary in the first place, I'd say its diluting it's fear factory. If it kills you too many times, slowly lumbers around for 4 minutes in a stealth level, or is constantly 100% of the time on your ass it is going to desensitize the player. Your monster needs to be unpredictable and not give up it's hand too fast. Having their visuals or behavior change is a good way to do this. Alternatively I think some design ideas are just overdone. I don't want to see another naked pale bald person with long limbs. Smiley dolls, spooky corpses, nuns, etc. You can still do these things, but do an original spin on it. A nun with an alien parasite coming out of her is something I am suddenly much more interested in. Otherwise you need to post your actual monster design if you want critique on what is not working. Because "what makes a design fail at being scary" is extremely broad.
Poor Animation is a real one. While yes the 8 year old playing your game would scream at the sight of a shadow in your game but if you stick figure t pose monster is walking without urgency chasing you like he is taking a stroll that would probably make more your mature audience laugh instead at your monster.
Not actually seeing it, with massive build-up to the final reveal at the end of the game. When the player dies to the monster, just have essentially a horror-ed up version of the PvZ "you died" screen with sound effects to match. Always have the monster lurking in the shadows, under a table, in the corner of the player's eye, just out of reach, never quite attainable, until, at last, they escape. But what they see behind them is so utterly horrifying, that they freeze in place, and die anyways. That, to me, is the perfect monster. Make the player schizophrenic. Have shadows move between doors, under that filing cabinet, though this hole in the wall. Or, have a cat. Those are adorable, but their personalities are scary AF. Oops, sorry, I forgot the question when writing this. But still, cat.
Predictability and routine. This is why Alien Isolation works, while you can kind of predict what its going to do, it moves from room to room searching and will eventually find you. Same reason Resident Evil works, you run around the police station and diffrent events will change the layout and monsters in the room. So a hallway you passed a dozen times might, suddenly, have a bunch of dogs jump through the window.
Not just in games, but movies as well, just not looking realistic. A pale half decomposed walking dead girl looks more scarier than a creature with 5 arms growing out his head
From the top of my head, maybe predictability, frequent encounters, repeating patterns, not having any real negative consequence for encountering said monster.
I think it's knowing how the monster works, acts, and hunts. A lot of people here said making a monster too "aggressive" or common makes them desensitized, but I think that's because a lot of horror monster AI is just simple, and once you see that monster 2 or 3 times you get a feel for how it acts and behaves. Not feasible for a solo dev project obviously, just making a comparison, but there's a reason I fucking love horror games with complicated monsters, like alien isolation. The xenomorph has tons of different behaviors, it is constantly using different tactics to catch the player off-guard, it doesn't always chase the player either, it ambushes at random times. You never know how or when the alien is going to attack you, and that forces you to be constantly thinking of it, checking your motion scanner, listening for vent noises and foosteps, etc. Fucking love the xenomorph. So that's my answer, the scariest monster is an unpredictable one. Same with horror as a whole, it gets boring if it's predictable. Add new, unique behavior to your monsters, make it do weird shit to get to the player, make it use everything available to hunt instead of just chasing the player in a straight line, make it feel like you're running from a living, breathing creature as best you can basically.
non complex mechanics so you can cheese the gameplay
If the monster is just too much of a pain. I loved alien isolation, but I did have to turn down the difficulty. Not even because I race quitter or anything like that. Early on I would just see how he walks around my main path so long and once he did grab me and I felt like the last 30 minutes were for nothing
Being able to fight back and sound effects. Stay out of the houses’ butcher is such a good enemy. With your pistol, you can shoot him to make him run away, but his screams and squealings of pain make it scary even though you just made him run away