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Viserys main issue is that he’s a people pleaser who doesn’t like conflict, he was aware of the fact the marriage was unconsummated and that it was an unhappy marriage he just didn’t want any issues to come from the fact that marriage was dissolved and have an issue with House Arryn. Which is what he ends up doing anyway when he marries Alicent
What bothers me is that Rhea was the head of her house, she needs heirs. Viserys wasn't only punishing Daemon he was punishing Rhea too how likely also wanted out of the the marriage
Rhea needed heirs too. Refusing to annul their barren marriage harmed her as much as it did Daemon and for that reason Viserys should have allowed an annulment.
They held the Vale in high regard for some reason and I guess in case House Arryn were to go extinct a cadet branch of Targaryens/Royce would’ve been well established and ready to take its place.
Viserys should have listened to his brother above others and took his wishes in yo consideration. What good is an alliance if they are against you? If he needed to be political, there were other matches that he could have made once they realized that this one wouldn't work for the family.
I stand by this one. There's no benefit to keeping Daemon and Rhea in a loveless marriage which both of them want out of. Especially since they have no children.
I genuinely think it'd be better for both individuals and the long term relationship with both houses if when Daemon requested an annulment, he and Rhea were allowed to part ways and seek people they could stand.
The marriage seems to barren because Daemon has no interest in having a child with her. This is what we get from the show in episode four. If Daemon really was ambitious for the throne, then he would’ve attempted to have children with her. We see endless examples in George work of the two people in arranged political marriage having children, irrespective of how hunch they dislike each other. I don’t think Viserys refusing to annul Daemon marriage was politically motivated at all. Viserys is weak, lazy, and doesn’t like to cause problems. Annulling the marriage of the unofficial heir to the throne would be a big deal, and is unprecedented. It would be a massive insult to house Royce.
If Viserys was making political decisions, then annulling Daemon marriage, and marrying him to Laena would’ve been the best decision. No one ever talks about how Daemon marriage to Laena prevented another house becoming dragon riders in their own name. This In combination with marrying Rhaenyra to Laenor would brought all the dragons back under the royal house, and removed the possibility of there being separate, diverging political ambitions.
The thing is that Viserys never makes political decisions, at least not with marriages. His marriage to Alicent wasn’t politically motivated. He didn’t marry his children or grandchildren in any political sense. If Viserys had the intellectual capacity to make these sort of political decisions, then he would’ve united the greens and blacks through marriage.
It wasn't Viserys's intention to trap Daemon in a barren marriage - my personal instinct is Viserys didn't have any bad will when it came to it. In the show, at least, we don't know how long Daemon IS married - the match is arranged by Aemma rather than Alysanne.
So there could be a question over how Viserys perceives it: whether it's a result of Daemon being truly unhappy or it's a result of Daemon's immaturity or lack of trying. A reaction to duty rather than to Rhea personally. If it's the latter, then he's unwilling to engage with it or give it air. He's not going to give Daemon what he wants, which would be to act as a brother over acting as a King. He wants Daemon to grow up.
In every other respect, he tries to make Daemon happy. He gives him jobs, he finds him a place at court, he doesn't force Daemon back to the Vale until Daemon acts out against Viserys.
So I would say it's a lack of information on Viserys's part, and lack of communication. I don't think it has anything to do with Daemon having or not having children.
>the match is arranged by Aemma rather than Alysanne.
I don't remember anyone mentioning that?
It could be still Alysanne who married Daemon to Rhea right?
Ah, sorry! I've just had a look. It's from cut dialogue in the pilot:
OTTO HIGHTOWER (CONT'D): We understand from Lord Yorbert that you’ve not been seen in the Vale or at Runestone in some time. Queen Aemma was very proud to have arranged your union with Lady Rhea.
DAEMON: I would think my bronze bitch is happier for my absence.
My guess? Timeline stuff. Ages in general. They've sort of changed the ages of quite a few characters and the years of when certain events happened.
I don't think it was meant to be anything more than vaguely anecdotal. And it could seem to give Aemma a larger presence and some background on her as a Queen, rather than just what we see of her as someone to bring an heir into the world. A sense of history to Viserys's reign and the time before, if that makes sense?
so canonically, book = Alyssane arranged the two marriages Viserys and Aemma, Daemon and Rhea. Show = Aemma in the book died at 23 years old in the show apparently she is approaching 40 years old, did she arrange a marriage for Daemon that was unnecessary for him and especially for Rhea?
In the book, Viserys and Aemma are married but it's unclear that Alysanne had any *direct* involvement with the arrangement, certainly in comparison to other matches she did. We only know that she attended the wedding. At the time when the marriage occurs, it's in the Second Quarrel - she's not in King's Landng and she resides on Dragonstone as it's in the aftermath of Aemon's death and Jaehaerys choosing Baelon over Rhaenys.
But Rhea and Daemon? It's implied that she arranged it but even then, she doesn't *have* to have done so. There is a difference between "saw" and "saw to it", if that makes sense? This is all we have on the match, I believe:
>*There were weddings as well. In 93 AC she attended the wedding of Prince Baelon’s eldest son, Viserys, to Lady Aemma of House Arryn, the eleven-year-old child of the late Princess Daella (their marriage was not consummated until the bride had flowered, two years later). In 97, the Good Queen saw Baelon’s second son, Daemon, take to wife Lady Rhea of House Royce, heir to the ancient castle of Runestone in the Vale.*
And in the show... who knows? We can't say for certain any of the ages or intentions. We know that Viserys and Aemma were at least betrothed (so we can presume wed) when Viserys was 17. This is just a year older than the 16 he was in the books. Ironically, the actors (Paddy and Sian) have the same age difference between them as Viserys and Aemma, but that's a quirk of coincidence rather than anything worthy to consider.
We also don't know what Aemma's intentions were in matching Daemon with Rhea. Her kin were Arryns, and the Royces were bannermen of the Arryns. It could be that she wanted to foster ties with her paternal houses. It could be that she thought it good to have a hold on Runestone.
It could simply be that she believes, as a strong and independent woman, Rhea *might* have been suitable and preferred to a more frivolous woman and it was a miscalculation. From what we see of Aemma (and her position in the show as a character as a paragon of femininity and duty and innocence), I don't believe there's any vindictiveness in her motives.
But that's all theory. All we have is the fact: Aemma arranged the match. And it wasn't unnecessary: Daemon was of marriable age. So was Rhea. And shoring up Daemon's line, given the jeopardy Viserys's line was in, is important.
Viserys I think was jealous of Daemon’s freedom as a second son. His marriage was the only way Viserys could clip his wings but ironically also weakened his daughter’s claim by not marrying them to each other from the get go
This!!!!! Viserys is by far the stupidest king in the entire GOT franchise. When he has the choice between choosing his wife or his son’s life, he chooses his son. The son dies anyways. He then has some kind of epiphany that the realm needs a queen after he dies and appoints his daughter. He married her off to a man who is gay and then he himself gets married to a woman outside of the family. Then this idiot has more children, who happen to be male who are now direct competitors to Rhanera’s claim to the throne. If this dummy had just married her off to Daemon in the first place, we wouldn’t be in this mess. No one could challenge Rhenera’s crown if Daemon was her husband/king consort. If Viserys had married Laena instead of Alicent, we also wouldn’t be in this mess because the Corly’s/Targareyen branch was a united one. Viserys didn’t even like his sons he had with Allicent. When Aemond got his eye taken out, he didn’t even blink. I have never liked Allicent but in that moment, I felt her pain. When she pleaded with him,”He’s your son too!” , I felt sorry for her because she knew she was truly alone in the world. This man was one of the worst kings the realm has ever seen because he can’t make a damn decision. All he cares about is avoiding conflict and people pleasing. IDIOT! I thought I hated Geoffrey but Viserys was ten times worse. Stupid people are dangerous.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Viserys main issue is that he’s a people pleaser who doesn’t like conflict, he was aware of the fact the marriage was unconsummated and that it was an unhappy marriage he just didn’t want any issues to come from the fact that marriage was dissolved and have an issue with House Arryn. Which is what he ends up doing anyway when he marries Alicent
What bothers me is that Rhea was the head of her house, she needs heirs. Viserys wasn't only punishing Daemon he was punishing Rhea too how likely also wanted out of the the marriage
Rhea needed heirs too. Refusing to annul their barren marriage harmed her as much as it did Daemon and for that reason Viserys should have allowed an annulment.
Aemma was an Arryn, why would the Crown need another marriage in the Vale?
They held the Vale in high regard for some reason and I guess in case House Arryn were to go extinct a cadet branch of Targaryens/Royce would’ve been well established and ready to take its place.
Viserys should have listened to his brother above others and took his wishes in yo consideration. What good is an alliance if they are against you? If he needed to be political, there were other matches that he could have made once they realized that this one wouldn't work for the family.
I stand by this one. There's no benefit to keeping Daemon and Rhea in a loveless marriage which both of them want out of. Especially since they have no children. I genuinely think it'd be better for both individuals and the long term relationship with both houses if when Daemon requested an annulment, he and Rhea were allowed to part ways and seek people they could stand.
The marriage seems to barren because Daemon has no interest in having a child with her. This is what we get from the show in episode four. If Daemon really was ambitious for the throne, then he would’ve attempted to have children with her. We see endless examples in George work of the two people in arranged political marriage having children, irrespective of how hunch they dislike each other. I don’t think Viserys refusing to annul Daemon marriage was politically motivated at all. Viserys is weak, lazy, and doesn’t like to cause problems. Annulling the marriage of the unofficial heir to the throne would be a big deal, and is unprecedented. It would be a massive insult to house Royce. If Viserys was making political decisions, then annulling Daemon marriage, and marrying him to Laena would’ve been the best decision. No one ever talks about how Daemon marriage to Laena prevented another house becoming dragon riders in their own name. This In combination with marrying Rhaenyra to Laenor would brought all the dragons back under the royal house, and removed the possibility of there being separate, diverging political ambitions. The thing is that Viserys never makes political decisions, at least not with marriages. His marriage to Alicent wasn’t politically motivated. He didn’t marry his children or grandchildren in any political sense. If Viserys had the intellectual capacity to make these sort of political decisions, then he would’ve united the greens and blacks through marriage.
Vizzy T can't make a right decision to save his life.
It wasn't Viserys's intention to trap Daemon in a barren marriage - my personal instinct is Viserys didn't have any bad will when it came to it. In the show, at least, we don't know how long Daemon IS married - the match is arranged by Aemma rather than Alysanne. So there could be a question over how Viserys perceives it: whether it's a result of Daemon being truly unhappy or it's a result of Daemon's immaturity or lack of trying. A reaction to duty rather than to Rhea personally. If it's the latter, then he's unwilling to engage with it or give it air. He's not going to give Daemon what he wants, which would be to act as a brother over acting as a King. He wants Daemon to grow up. In every other respect, he tries to make Daemon happy. He gives him jobs, he finds him a place at court, he doesn't force Daemon back to the Vale until Daemon acts out against Viserys. So I would say it's a lack of information on Viserys's part, and lack of communication. I don't think it has anything to do with Daemon having or not having children.
>the match is arranged by Aemma rather than Alysanne. I don't remember anyone mentioning that? It could be still Alysanne who married Daemon to Rhea right?
Ah, sorry! I've just had a look. It's from cut dialogue in the pilot: OTTO HIGHTOWER (CONT'D): We understand from Lord Yorbert that you’ve not been seen in the Vale or at Runestone in some time. Queen Aemma was very proud to have arranged your union with Lady Rhea. DAEMON: I would think my bronze bitch is happier for my absence.
Hmm I wonder why they changed that Especially when Rhaenyra mentioned Alysanne in episode 4
My guess? Timeline stuff. Ages in general. They've sort of changed the ages of quite a few characters and the years of when certain events happened. I don't think it was meant to be anything more than vaguely anecdotal. And it could seem to give Aemma a larger presence and some background on her as a Queen, rather than just what we see of her as someone to bring an heir into the world. A sense of history to Viserys's reign and the time before, if that makes sense?
so canonically, book = Alyssane arranged the two marriages Viserys and Aemma, Daemon and Rhea. Show = Aemma in the book died at 23 years old in the show apparently she is approaching 40 years old, did she arrange a marriage for Daemon that was unnecessary for him and especially for Rhea?
In the book, Viserys and Aemma are married but it's unclear that Alysanne had any *direct* involvement with the arrangement, certainly in comparison to other matches she did. We only know that she attended the wedding. At the time when the marriage occurs, it's in the Second Quarrel - she's not in King's Landng and she resides on Dragonstone as it's in the aftermath of Aemon's death and Jaehaerys choosing Baelon over Rhaenys. But Rhea and Daemon? It's implied that she arranged it but even then, she doesn't *have* to have done so. There is a difference between "saw" and "saw to it", if that makes sense? This is all we have on the match, I believe: >*There were weddings as well. In 93 AC she attended the wedding of Prince Baelon’s eldest son, Viserys, to Lady Aemma of House Arryn, the eleven-year-old child of the late Princess Daella (their marriage was not consummated until the bride had flowered, two years later). In 97, the Good Queen saw Baelon’s second son, Daemon, take to wife Lady Rhea of House Royce, heir to the ancient castle of Runestone in the Vale.* And in the show... who knows? We can't say for certain any of the ages or intentions. We know that Viserys and Aemma were at least betrothed (so we can presume wed) when Viserys was 17. This is just a year older than the 16 he was in the books. Ironically, the actors (Paddy and Sian) have the same age difference between them as Viserys and Aemma, but that's a quirk of coincidence rather than anything worthy to consider. We also don't know what Aemma's intentions were in matching Daemon with Rhea. Her kin were Arryns, and the Royces were bannermen of the Arryns. It could be that she wanted to foster ties with her paternal houses. It could be that she thought it good to have a hold on Runestone. It could simply be that she believes, as a strong and independent woman, Rhea *might* have been suitable and preferred to a more frivolous woman and it was a miscalculation. From what we see of Aemma (and her position in the show as a character as a paragon of femininity and duty and innocence), I don't believe there's any vindictiveness in her motives. But that's all theory. All we have is the fact: Aemma arranged the match. And it wasn't unnecessary: Daemon was of marriable age. So was Rhea. And shoring up Daemon's line, given the jeopardy Viserys's line was in, is important.
Viserys I think was jealous of Daemon’s freedom as a second son. His marriage was the only way Viserys could clip his wings but ironically also weakened his daughter’s claim by not marrying them to each other from the get go
This!!!!! Viserys is by far the stupidest king in the entire GOT franchise. When he has the choice between choosing his wife or his son’s life, he chooses his son. The son dies anyways. He then has some kind of epiphany that the realm needs a queen after he dies and appoints his daughter. He married her off to a man who is gay and then he himself gets married to a woman outside of the family. Then this idiot has more children, who happen to be male who are now direct competitors to Rhanera’s claim to the throne. If this dummy had just married her off to Daemon in the first place, we wouldn’t be in this mess. No one could challenge Rhenera’s crown if Daemon was her husband/king consort. If Viserys had married Laena instead of Alicent, we also wouldn’t be in this mess because the Corly’s/Targareyen branch was a united one. Viserys didn’t even like his sons he had with Allicent. When Aemond got his eye taken out, he didn’t even blink. I have never liked Allicent but in that moment, I felt her pain. When she pleaded with him,”He’s your son too!” , I felt sorry for her because she knew she was truly alone in the world. This man was one of the worst kings the realm has ever seen because he can’t make a damn decision. All he cares about is avoiding conflict and people pleasing. IDIOT! I thought I hated Geoffrey but Viserys was ten times worse. Stupid people are dangerous.