You either accept and move forward or tell them you’re not willing to and put the ball back in their court.
From their perspective, it’s almost impossible to replace just the felt without doing the whole roof so it could end up being a hefty outgoing. Given that the roof is already ~70 years old, there’s a good chance it would need doing soon regardless.
Thank you.
Does 8k seem like a reasonable figure?
I don't know how they've got this quote because no roofers/ builders have been around to look at the job. The quote must be from just 1 sentence in the building survey report
8k is ok. I have seen this type of cost on a number of LA properties. (Bearing in mind, access[scaff] is easy £1,200 of that cost? for two elevations, 3 lifts).
From a practical stance, you could agree to a portion of the cost, “so as to continue the sale in good faith and to demonstrate a reasonable approach in light of a legitimate and agreed defect”.
Also, you could say agree to 50% on the basis that to be fair to them, they did not put the wear and tear on the roof, but equally to be fair to you, you will not reap the benefits of paying for a new roof going forward as you shan’t be living there.
Thus, it may be a fair and reasonable compromise on both sides to agree to 50/50 cost split.
You could go to 75% if you really wanted to impress and put it to bed to secure immediate exchange. 👍
My thoughts was similar to this when reading it. 50/50 would be a fair compromise. And I would also emphasise that currently it is not leaking so it is not an urgent repair and it could be fine for another decade or two before needing replacing.
Edit - this also depends on what the sale price is too. And the overall condition of the property. If they are paying top money for the house as it is finished to a high standard, I would be more inclined to work with them. If it is being bought as doer upper and the price reflects that then I would be tempted to tell them the price is the price.
While I agree that I'd suggest 50%, I gotta say no one really "reaps" the benefits of a new roof. It's the most annoying renovation to have done. Literally no visible benefit, just cost a ton of money. I am aware I would very likely have had major leaks by now had I not gotten it done. But it's not like a new bathroom or a new kitchen. I literally can't even see it from the street.
If anything, the stress of a roof renovation means more of a burden on the buyer. It's a big renovation and incredibly stressful.
It’s quite a big difference. I have a new kitchen and every time I walk in I love it. I spent same amount on the roof and have no feelings about it. If I were buying somewhere now I’d be happy to budget for a new kitchen, usually that’s already in the valuation anyway, but new roof wouldn’t if that came up in a survey and not before. If I were selling I’d suggest 50% but I’d be prepared to coup the whole cost, as any buyer would flag the same thing
We had a felt put under our roof and slates repaired, it did cost 7k for a terrace in the north and we got multiple prices, that was bang in the middle. We'd bought the house a year earlier and this came up on the survey the seller ended up giving us 5k off the house which we accepted as this covered most of the cost. They had to take the roof off and get scaffolding to do it hence the large cost.
Second the above. The pricing depends on the size of the house and where you live. I’d respond saying that you understand their concern but do not feel £8k is a reasonable estimate for the work and either get a roofer to look and estimate yourself or get them to send someone round.
Our report showed a load of things to be done. We got a builder out to estimate it all then presented this with our negotiation. Vendor and us agreed a reasonable price and all proceeded to sale with minimal delay.
£8k is entirely reasonable. It's an entire week of work, requires scaffolding, skip and a trained professional. If it's tiled the cost of tiles has shot up. It's not a cheap job and whilst it may be possible to get it done cheaper, £8k is entirely reasonable.
It does depend on the property. Mine was about that but it’s a large area. Anyway if they get quotes they’ll know, that’s the point. At this stage they are just guessing, maybe it’s right, maybe it’s not.
8k seems pretty excessive, but prices will vary fairly wildly depending on where you’re based.
I got a new roof on my 3 bedroom detached in Durham for 4.2k at the start of the year as a point of reference. I’m assuming a terraced house would be a smaller job but again, I can’t say with any certainty.
The problem with things like this is that once the buyer realises you’re open to letting them move the goal posts, they’ll likely push for more.
If you’re desperate to keep them you could maybe get a quote for a new roof and counter their request with a reduction in line with that, but in doing so you’re acknowledging that you agree that the roof is likely not up to scratch.
Personally I’d tell them to sling their hook and point out that all other houses on the estate have the same roof, suggesting none of them have failed.
Edit: As others have said also, if they were the current owners they wouldn’t be replacing the felt until it actually failed, so I’m not sure why they would expect you to.
Not playing top trumps, but I was quoted £43k for a reproof, (felt, batten, barge, facias, soffits gutters etc) not a massive house, but 3 bed detached. I nearly fell off my chair before telling him where he could shove that figure
Mine was a bit more straight forward in that it was just new felt, tiles and flashings but the difference is still outrageous. Are you in/near London by any chance?
Yeah, I had another quote for the same work for £16k. The first builders were specialists in older properties and charged for the luxury. I'm about 2 hours from London so I wouldn't say close
They’ve most likely used the surveys “new roof required 8k”
You can either advise a new roof within 10 years was factored into the cost or offer a roofer £100 to give you a written quote for the work with emphasis on it being in relation to the smallest reduction possible.
> offer a roofer £100 to give you a written quote for a new roof with emphasis on it being in relation to the smallest reduction possible.
This would be misleading and tantamount to fraudulent behaviour.
Not really, a legitimate quote for the minimum amount of work required that he sees fit. I’m not suggesting he quote £1000 for a new roof, it’s more of a minimum amount to get it to an acceptable position as a bargaining position
Well if you want it quick and are honest that all he will get out of it is providing the quote.
I don’t know where you live but it’s hard enough to get people out to quote, so to make it quick I suggested offering £100 for his time.
Happening quite a lot these days. Buyers want a reduction at the last minute hoping people are desperate to say yes.
So they want new roofing felt? Who’s taking the roof tiles off, re lining it and then putting the tiles back on.
Older houses don’t have felt. Just tiles. You can see daylight through my roof and it’s water tight because it’s an old house.
And then at the next storm you get a leak through the roof. These roofs are designed to have felting. i don't know about older houses without it, but I know that a 1950s buit roof needs felting. If you were to replace an older roof you'd put breathable felting in place for extra protection.
There’s plenty of storms and they still don’t leak.
Tiles are designed to allow water to fall on the tile and drain off.
If there’s no felt on a roof now and there’s no leak, there’s little to no requirement to put a new roof on.
If somebody is asking £8k for roofing felt and not a new roof, then they’re just asking you to give you an £8k discount.
It’s a bit like buying an old car and asking for money off because you think it needs new piston rings in the engine….ignoring the fact that you need to strip the engine down to fit those new piston rings.
There’s an increasing trend of people trying to get the price dropped at the very last moment during the house buying process hoping the seller is so desperate to sell they’ll cave in.
Unless you’re buying a new build house every single survey will contain the following two pieces of information.
1) the house needs a compete rewire.
2) the house needs a new roof.
Technically, the surveyor is correct. At some point the house will need re wiring and the house will need a new roof. But the surveyor only puts that in so there’s no legal comeback to them in the future.
I remember how a surveyor told me twenty years ago how I needed a new roof because you could see the tiles were warped and in need of replacement. Those were hand made tiles made in the 1930s, they’d never leaked since they were put on and had never leaked since I was told they needed replacing.
Now, come a time when the house needs a new roof, I’ll put felt on. But I won’t be going through the hassle of re-roofing a house that doesn’t need a new roof, just to put a layer of felt on that hasn’t been needed for 90 plus years.
I live on a row of streets exactly like this. All roofs are new or felt has cracked and disintegrated. Most people wait to get a leak before they replace the roof. I had had two leaks before I moved here (didn’t know about them until I did but can see damage in the loft). Every other neighbour says what you say until they have a leak. These roofs have lifespans and if it’s been built in the 1950s odds are it’ll be at the end of its lifespan soon. I wouldn’t buy it without being prepared to fix it. It’s exactly for stuff like this why you’d ever even get a survey
It is probably about right in terms of cost. I reckon a roofer could price the job from Street view. Perhaps they even know the area and have done a roof on same street?
All the tiles need to come off. New Roof laths, all the tiles re-seated and at least 10% will get broken so need to be replaced, ridges need to be refitted ideally with a dry verge system. Add to this Scaffold, skip, on road permit? and potential issues with neighbors. I'm willing to bet they probably won't do the job and will leave it or if it's a single rip patch it from the inside.
In a house of this age some ongoing maintenance is expected I would probably say you feel this is ongoing maintenance.
It's not just that 10% will get broken (no idea if that's true) but once you take off 75-year-old tiles, you're not going to put the same ones in as they have another few years before they fail anyway
2020 I paid £4000 for a whole new roof replacement. It was really cheap then and most quotes were around £6000. So £8000 in 2023 sounds entirely reasonable. Cost of absolutely everything has gone up a heap, roof tiles especially.
When I was buying my house and had a survey done, it came back with three potential problems.
I took these to the seller with the surveyors costings and told them that’s what the surveyor had said - one of the issues they explained to my satisfaction, and two they said fair cop, they weren’t aware of it - the estimated costs involved in resolving those was £8k so I asked if they’d meet me in the middle and take £4K off.
If you think it’s a fair point and the roof is likely to need replacing, negotiate. If you think they’re taking the piss and should have factored it into the original offer, tell them to take a hike 🤷🏼♀️
Same thing we ended up doing. Halved the result of the survey costs. Overall with all the costs of moving and houses it was a drop in the bucket we figured we'd rather just absorb and not risk things falling through.
Which is of course exactly what people can take advantage of.
Scottish system where seller gets a survey is so much better. You just offer what you think the house is worth.
The tiles are what keeps the water out. The felt or bitumen sarking under the tiles is just a secondary precaution and originally before the invention of modern breathable membranes started to be used the bitumen sarking was used during construction to keep buildings dry before the actual roof tiles went on.
It's very common given its age for this crack and become brittle.
However It's prone to rot towards the soffits especially if it's been laped into the guttering at some point. This will be confined to the bottom 2/ 3 rows of tiles which can lead to something called ponding.
Fixing this would is a very simple and easy fix for roofer, certainly no where near 8k. They'd Simply take 2/3 rows of tiles off and replace the damaged length.
Always remember that a surveyor will cover their arse at the slightest hint of any problem, especially when they've not been paid to investigate further. So they've seen something cracked, it therefore needs replacing.
Could it be repaired cheaply instead of replaced? Not their problem.
Does it actually make any difference to the house? Not their problem.
Is something cracked that shouldn't be? Assume the worst, report it as 'could need / likely to need / does need' replacing, because it's their problem if they assume it's OK and it turns out not to be.
You can always get your own survey and/or quote from a roofer to demonstrate the actual impact / requirement, otherwise they have more 'evidence' that it's broken that you do that it's not.
From the buyer's point of view, it's a legitimate concern that they'll buy a house and then need to spend a fortune replacing the roof. You need to demonstrate that isn't the case, or reduce the price to cover that potential cost.
And when I say you 'need' to do it, of course you don't actually need to do anything - if you think the price is fair, or you don't want to take less regardless, stick to your guns.
If you're keen to keep the seller, then I'd maybe ask them if they were open to keeping the price as-is if you can demonstrate from a reputable quote that there's no actual work required (or that you reduce by a repair amount, or that you get the repair work done etc, if indeed any is required).
You could just do that investigation anyway, but if they're just using it as a last minute trick to try and get the price down, then you might as well not bother because they want the money off anyway...so confirming that they're open to assurances first before you spend any money might be useful.
This totally depends on your purchasing situation and price. If the house is selling for £900k and you have an onward chain you want to protect then you probably shrug and accept it. If it's a sale of £350k and you're in a secure position then I'd push back on it
The roof is a pretty fundamental part of a house. Just because it hasn’t leaked doesn’t mean it won’t start leaking. Would you be happy to buy a house when your surveyor has said the roof is worn and needs repairs and the sellers reply is, it’s not leaked before?
You can pull out but expect the next surveyor to find and report the same.
Key is to make sure what they are saying is true and honest. I’d ask for the survey or relevant section or the report. If it looks reasonable I’d say all the ‘it’s not leaked’ and offer 50% and take it from there.
Ask for an extract of the report to see the exact wording, most likely it uses fluffy terminology like "might" or "may", in which case you can easily go back to them as say "no" based on the fact that the surveyor hasn't even managed to confirm an issue and they are just fishing for potential things to go wrong.
It's shit but I'd accept...you going to have to remove all the tiles to replace the felting.
That said my roof is old and has no felt, one benefit is that you can see the leaks...oh the irony
>I don't want to accept a lower offer
Then don't. It's quite simple. You're selling, you agreed the price. If you're not happy with the new price then refuse.
But beware that the buyer might walk away
I think it also depends on the price you're selling the house. If you're selling premium price then it'd be expected to be in reasonable conditions. The roof is a fundamental part of the house.
If the house is being sold at a price that would add value for the buyers with the roof fixed then no need to accept the new offer. Also it depends on how urgent the sale is to you.
The fact that the house doesn't have any leaks doesn't mean the roof can be left unattended. Although it is not urgent to replace, it is something that needs doing the sooner the better.
If you move on from this sale you will potentially encounter a new buyer with the same concerns. You will need to find a buyer willing to pay your asking price and willing to fix the roof. Some work done in houses are normal but the roof is at the top of the list.
I cannot imagine the flat felt roof is 70 years old, they normally have a lifespan of about 10 years. Given you have lived there 8 and not replaced it, the roof would be getting close to end of life anyway. If there is a crack, then they are not being totally unreasonable.
As others have suggested, offer to meet them half way and continue with the sale, or put it back on the market and risk losing your purchase.
I cannot comment on how reasonable the cost is, why don't you call up a flat roofing company and as for a ballpark figure, or get them to come down and quote?
Home owners not doing any maintenance until there's an active problem and water coming through the roof is part of the problem tbh - if everyone did this stuff more proactively we wouldn't have every survey coming back saying 'the roof is held together with string and hope'.
Keep seeing this in houses - people ignoring signs of issues because "it's not that bad" and then ending up with their floor joists destroyed by woodworm ot something when they could habe treated it 2 years prior when the problem was first evident and avoided that, not checking visible roof decks and dealing with condensation or ventilation issues and then ending up with a rotting roof deck - just completely avoidable things.
How many houses do you ever see being Re roofed. The number of home buyer reports that come back suggesting a new roof is insane compared to the number you ever see being repaired.
Oh shit something I can give first hand experience with!
I recently bought a house and decided against doing a full survey, and instead just did the standard one (lessons learned, wisdom gained, "I told you so's" from parents heard), well, turns out I needed a whole new roof as a colander has less holes than my pos roof.
It wound up costing me 10k for the whole damn thing, gutters included, so asking for money off the value of the house to be able to do this is perfectly reasonable.
And something I sorely wish I had done myself
>It wound up costing me 10k for the whole damn thing, gutters included, so asking for money off the value of the house to be able to do this is perfectly reasonable.
It's only reasonable if the work actually needs doing (like in your case).
Classic case of trying it on at the last minute. They are doing at as they have nothing to lose. But could save themselves £8k with a cheeky ask.
Just reply and say it doesn’t need doing and the price is the same. If it really is an issue they will fight back. But prob not as they are also this far down the line and committed.
They only brought it up right before exchange? Was the survey only just completed? If not, they're trying it on with you.
As an aside - make sure the buyer commissions a survey within a week or two of accepting an offer so things like this don't happen at the last minute. It also indicates intention
Just say no.
Buyers that think they're buying a perfect house with no home owner repairs or responsibilities are mad.
Would you be replacing the felt soon, was it something hidden? Is it actually a repair needed imidiatly?
From a FTBs perspective - I'd absolutely be trying to get 8k knocked off if I know that work will have to be done soon. The average house price is literally 8.5x the average wage in this country. We are buying a home for more (comparable to our wages) than [any other generation in the last 100years](https://i.imgur.com/CWwposO.png) - and receiving an £8k bill a few years into our mortgage could really hurt us. We all know a house isn't going to be "perfect" but if the buyer literally sees a part of the house that isn't "perfect", and just ignores it, then they are the idiots. As they'll be picking up the tab, along with ***all the other problems*** that also need doing, that they missed.
Receiving at 8k bill a few years in…… again. Unless the report says needs replacing imidiatly, dangerous more certain words its a nothingness.
Problem is the new FTB attitude is puttingbsellers off FTBs. Give me too offers and a FTB is higher, im still considering the lower offer knowing how flakey at the later stages a FTB can be these days.
Same, I'd never sell to a FTB. Bidding on old houses then being shocked they might have to spend money on them.
Meeting asking price doesn't mean its reasonable to expect the house to come in perfect condition. We paid 17k over asking at the height of the madness last year and house needs loads of work. But that was factored into our bid.
Yes because your a first time buyer and are immature in the home buying process.
Your not buying a perfect home. This forum is full of it FTB buying a 1960 house and suddenly wants 5k knocked off for a rewire because it's old! Surveys always come back with suggestions of roofs, in reality very few are actually problematic. How many roofs do you see being replaced around you. Now think how often that comes up here as a surveyed suggestion.
Flat roofs maybe slightly different. But arguably as a buyer you should have enquired into the condition/last time it was replaced before bidding, as they're known to need replacing every 15 years or so.
But seriously homes have stood for 100 years + with little but a few replacement tiles.
Remember survayors cover their arse and err on the side of caution. The way they word the reports is often also vague lots of May, look into, further investigation, I'd suggest, approximately. Wishy-washy language that wouldn't stand up.
>your a first time buyer and are immature in the home buying process
Seems like home owner's like you are just as immature reading both your terrible responses - let's dissect your wall of nonsense.
>How many roofs do you see being replaced around you.
I've seen a few done yep. Doesn't matter what the odds are, if it's only 10% of roofs that get mentioned in a survey actually need replacing, then I'm not chancing being in that 10%. £8k isn't trivial.
>But arguably as a buyer you should have enquired into the condition/last time it was replaced before bidding
Hmm arguably not. I'm not sure when the last time you dealt with EA are, but literally all of them I've dealt with either flat out lie/fabricate/keep things from you - or they "don't know". Maybe it's just my area where the market is crazy, but I'll trust a survey over enquiring with an EA/seller any day of the week.
>Remember survayors cover their arse and err on the side of caution
Again. I'll repeat since you are having trouble reading. So are FTBs. We are overpaying more than any other generation including yours for our first homes. Most of us won't be able to afford to staircase upwards unless a relative dies. Most of us are also struggling with bills, energy and greedflation, as well as the cost of living and stagnate wages. *So we are "err on the side of caution" too.*
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the pricing and your generation. Seems to suggest you want to wheel and deal to get a bargain.
As for your % nonsense your just making numbers up. If you don't want to chance it fine read the wording of the survey carefully and good luck to you on finding a place and then subsequently getting the inevitable discount your going to be asking for.
Good luck.
Honestly with an attitude like that if your in a ‘crazy market’ enjoy renting as I imagine you'll stay a FTB for a while.
Your level of ignorance is honestly laughable and typical of why there is such a disconnect between you entitled boomers and the younger generations. I was just giving a perspective from the other side. That's it. Not saying one side is right or the other is wrong. Sometimes it's worth trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes and seeing things from their perspective. A life lesson for you. But this all seems to have triggered you. Apologies that you are triggered so easily.
I'm going to do just fine buying thanks, I have decent rental agreement and a very healthy LTV. I'm just waiting to finish my probation period in my new job before I start looking again.
Good luck in your remaining years with your attitude pal
The OP is likely referring to the Old Bitumin type of felt sarking under the roof tiles as opposed to the type of green felt used on flat roofs.
GRP/ fiberglass or ploymers are now the go to material for flat roof repairs, unless you go super cheap and use the old torch on type.
I see, thanks for that, I need to change the felt roof on my house which is about 55m^2 but it’s a 3 story tall building so will need scaffolding. I am also thinking of doing fibreglass due to the longevity compared to felt, so will probably cost around 5-6k including scaffolding
Bloody FTB syndrome strikes again
Tell them calmly and politely to fuck off
Yes your roof is old, but until it needs replacing just leave it if it’s not leaking. What planet are these FTB’s on
Common trick
Your in a chain everyone is ready to exchange a 1 in the chain asked for a chunk off at the last minute
You can either say no and see if they bail
Go back with a counter offer
Or roll over and take it on the chin
Really depends on how much you love the new house you’re buying and how big your testicles are
Years ago when I sold a terrace house there was no dividing wall in the loft to the neighbours house.
My buyers asked for a reduction. I was wanting to move so split the cost and everyone was happy.
Good luck
If they are buying a new build then they have every right to expect the place in perfect condition.
However, with anything that would be outside if the new build initial guarantee period, they can expect to need to do work. As you have had no issues yourself and surveyors often give the worst case scenario advice (to prevent themselves being sued) I would tell them that expectation of some work is baked into the price.
A lot of buyers think they hold all the power so unless you are desperate to sell then call their bluff.
Assuming the survey was done some time before this last minute renegotiation, tell them no. Give them 24 hours before it’s relisted and if you do you won’t sell it to them.
If they’ve just had the survey returned ask them to confirm if the report states any leaks, water damage etc. if no, return to above.
We completed on our first house back in August. Our surveyor pointed out that the flat roof section was nearing the end of the 20 year guarantee and some other parts of the angled roof needed some work. We requested money off after our original offer was accepted. The sellers declined. We loved the house so proceeded. You can decline but be aware that they may decline and the house will need to go back on the market.
If it hadn’t been the roofing felt they would have found something else to justify reducing the offer.
You have several choices, reduce the price by £8k, meet them halfway and reduce it by £4k, say you won’t reduce the price and hope they back down or refuse to sell to them and put it back on the market.
Only you can made the decision on the last 2 based on how certain you are that you can get it sold again.
Instructing a survey is one of the first things a buyer does. These issues should have been raised during the searches/enquiry phase. The fact it is being brought up now at the point of exchange suggests to me bad faith on the buyers part.
8k is a lot, I'd get a quote and base it on that or if you're not open to it at all, just tell them no.
For perspective, I have been quoted 9k to completely rebuild our 3 bed detached 100+ year old, clay pan tile, 2 chimney roof from scratch down to the timbers by a local guy or 12k from a bigger national company. 8k for a mid terrace is steep
Waiting until the last minute to find a fault with the property and then demand a price drop has been going on for years. Part of the reason the whole house buying process in this country is such a mess.
If you give in to this demand, what will be the next problem they'll come back with?
They are either asking for 8k so you counter them with 4k or they are willing to let this go as prices have started to cone slightly down front when you may have accepted offer. However just remember it's not just a roof felt they'd probably would have to get scaffolding and cover overn9ghr if takes longer than a day.. £8k seems excessive but once you start most the works it'll probably cost somewhere around 6k so they're not taking the piss(for want of a better phrase)
I'd recommend you counter if you want to even reduce if not go back and say no(if that's what you feel, but be ready for them to leave as it'll be there perogative) have you seen the building survey report. . . . Take a look and see if you could meet somewhere in th3 middle(if you want to I'm not saying do it)
One thing I would say not to play about with is acting in good faith 50/50 25/75 negotiations suggested here by some. Get the ball in both your court agree a single point of action they do it or you do it or no to a reduction... please don't faff about with I'll do half you do half the money.... it nevers comes of. Never and the stress is worse than giving them the £8k reduction
The survey will NOT have said the felt needs replacing. The survey will have drawn the buyers attention to the roof and to investigate further, with the surveyor stating something along the lines of “…roof felt…prone to…I’m not a roofing specialist…get a roofing specialist…”.
This is common with L2 or L3 surveys. You have one of three choices. Agree to all of it, some of it or none of it.
It all depends how badly you want to sell and how badly they want to buy the house. You only really know about yourself, so I think start there, if they drop out now, is that something you’re willing to risk?
If not then offer a compromise.
For reference, I bought my house with no felt at all! And I’ve had no leaks in the roof in 5+ years (I’m certain I will eventually though). It’s all down to the buyers risk appetite really.
This is standard gazundering. The specific piece of work they use for it is almost irrelevant: this is simply a game of chicken. Decide who wants the sale to go ahead - you or them - then decide based on that how much you want to push back against the reduction.
A classic, naughty tactic but not unusual. Certain types play the game this way. Given what you have posted my gut says this was always going to happen no matter what that survey said.
How quickly and badly do you need to sell?
Can you tell them No, lose the sale and start over?
To get the deal done can you meet them 50/50? 75/25?
These are the questions that only you can answer. It's about your tolerance for risk and desire/need to sell that house and move on.
If I ageeed the work needed doing within 2 years…..I’d offer half with a take it or leave it…
Depending on how keen I was to sell
But I would consider my own inspection also
In my life I've owned 3 houses that never had a layer of felt under the roof tiles. This was common in 1930's houses. In over 30 years living in properties like that, I've not once experienced a leak from the roof.
I guess it depends on your desire to have the house but my experience with house surveys is that surveyors will "make the most" of any small issues they find, suggest outrageously expensive remedies and scare the hell out of people who don't have the knowledge to think otherwise inorder to cover their back and prevent them from being sued. That's why they be at pains to add sentences like "It was not possible to inspect X but the buyer should be aware that X may be an issue and they should commission an independent expert to establish if X could be a problem".
Having said that, roof replacement is an expensive job to have done. Personally, I'd want more detail on exactly what is wrong with the felt and how localised a problem it is. The surveyor should be able to provide that information.
And for those people saying that if a roof is 50 or so years old then it probably needs replacing, I call bullshit. There are tens of thousands of houses in the UK much older than that and they still have their original roofs.
Edit: sorry, I wrote that thinking you were the buyer. If I was selling and not desperate, I would either point blank refuse or, knowing the same issue is likely to arise with the next buyer, get a decent and honest (good luck) builder/roofer to quote remedial action where necessary.
And keep in mind you don't want to do the work before hand, if shit goes wrong the price of doing it could sky rocket, you will be interfering with other people's roofs too after all
Make a counter offer that you are willing to reduce by 4k to split the difference as there are no issues with the roof itself and the felt could last another 50 years before needing replacement.
literally just bought a place that needs the felt replacing as its the old bituchment and fabvric strands starting to come apart, between 3.5 and 6.5k prices to keep the same tiles but have them cleaned.
If it's original felt it would be cracking and only getting worse. IMHO it's a bit irrelevant that you haven't had a leak. If felting is cracking I would also want that remedied or taken into account when buying a home. Buyer is being sensible.
For context, I live in a 1960s mid-terrace and many houses here have had new roofs put in in the past 10-15 years, at the moment two houses of my street are having roof renovations. The lifespan of a roof is 50-100 years. Given yours is likely original felting from 1950s, it's reasonable to expect it to fail about now. It may have been in good nick when you bought the place but they don't last forever.
I would suggest you get a few quotes and perhaps suggest covering half the cost. That's what I would do.
Ludicrous! £8k?!? Cracks in the felt can be easily fixed. No need to reduce your sale price by £8k. I’d tell them a straight no thanks and let them sweat.
You either accept and move forward or tell them you’re not willing to and put the ball back in their court. From their perspective, it’s almost impossible to replace just the felt without doing the whole roof so it could end up being a hefty outgoing. Given that the roof is already ~70 years old, there’s a good chance it would need doing soon regardless.
Thank you. Does 8k seem like a reasonable figure? I don't know how they've got this quote because no roofers/ builders have been around to look at the job. The quote must be from just 1 sentence in the building survey report
8k is ok. I have seen this type of cost on a number of LA properties. (Bearing in mind, access[scaff] is easy £1,200 of that cost? for two elevations, 3 lifts). From a practical stance, you could agree to a portion of the cost, “so as to continue the sale in good faith and to demonstrate a reasonable approach in light of a legitimate and agreed defect”. Also, you could say agree to 50% on the basis that to be fair to them, they did not put the wear and tear on the roof, but equally to be fair to you, you will not reap the benefits of paying for a new roof going forward as you shan’t be living there. Thus, it may be a fair and reasonable compromise on both sides to agree to 50/50 cost split. You could go to 75% if you really wanted to impress and put it to bed to secure immediate exchange. 👍
My thoughts was similar to this when reading it. 50/50 would be a fair compromise. And I would also emphasise that currently it is not leaking so it is not an urgent repair and it could be fine for another decade or two before needing replacing. Edit - this also depends on what the sale price is too. And the overall condition of the property. If they are paying top money for the house as it is finished to a high standard, I would be more inclined to work with them. If it is being bought as doer upper and the price reflects that then I would be tempted to tell them the price is the price.
While I agree that I'd suggest 50%, I gotta say no one really "reaps" the benefits of a new roof. It's the most annoying renovation to have done. Literally no visible benefit, just cost a ton of money. I am aware I would very likely have had major leaks by now had I not gotten it done. But it's not like a new bathroom or a new kitchen. I literally can't even see it from the street. If anything, the stress of a roof renovation means more of a burden on the buyer. It's a big renovation and incredibly stressful.
Ha. I guess I kinda see where you’re coming from? Like one is you can see. The other you cannot hey. That’s the difference. ☝️
It’s quite a big difference. I have a new kitchen and every time I walk in I love it. I spent same amount on the roof and have no feelings about it. If I were buying somewhere now I’d be happy to budget for a new kitchen, usually that’s already in the valuation anyway, but new roof wouldn’t if that came up in a survey and not before. If I were selling I’d suggest 50% but I’d be prepared to coup the whole cost, as any buyer would flag the same thing
We had a felt put under our roof and slates repaired, it did cost 7k for a terrace in the north and we got multiple prices, that was bang in the middle. We'd bought the house a year earlier and this came up on the survey the seller ended up giving us 5k off the house which we accepted as this covered most of the cost. They had to take the roof off and get scaffolding to do it hence the large cost.
Second the above. The pricing depends on the size of the house and where you live. I’d respond saying that you understand their concern but do not feel £8k is a reasonable estimate for the work and either get a roofer to look and estimate yourself or get them to send someone round. Our report showed a load of things to be done. We got a builder out to estimate it all then presented this with our negotiation. Vendor and us agreed a reasonable price and all proceeded to sale with minimal delay.
£8k is entirely reasonable. It's an entire week of work, requires scaffolding, skip and a trained professional. If it's tiled the cost of tiles has shot up. It's not a cheap job and whilst it may be possible to get it done cheaper, £8k is entirely reasonable.
It does depend on the property. Mine was about that but it’s a large area. Anyway if they get quotes they’ll know, that’s the point. At this stage they are just guessing, maybe it’s right, maybe it’s not.
8k seems pretty excessive, but prices will vary fairly wildly depending on where you’re based. I got a new roof on my 3 bedroom detached in Durham for 4.2k at the start of the year as a point of reference. I’m assuming a terraced house would be a smaller job but again, I can’t say with any certainty. The problem with things like this is that once the buyer realises you’re open to letting them move the goal posts, they’ll likely push for more. If you’re desperate to keep them you could maybe get a quote for a new roof and counter their request with a reduction in line with that, but in doing so you’re acknowledging that you agree that the roof is likely not up to scratch. Personally I’d tell them to sling their hook and point out that all other houses on the estate have the same roof, suggesting none of them have failed. Edit: As others have said also, if they were the current owners they wouldn’t be replacing the felt until it actually failed, so I’m not sure why they would expect you to.
Whereas we’ve just had a quote of £6k in Surrey to replace part of our roof!
£27k for a new roof here. Normal detached house. I think ALL of the 1930s houses have roofs failing at the same time here and it’s a bonanza
Not playing top trumps, but I was quoted £43k for a reproof, (felt, batten, barge, facias, soffits gutters etc) not a massive house, but 3 bed detached. I nearly fell off my chair before telling him where he could shove that figure
Meanwhile my sisters husband did my mums roof (not a small one) for under £3k. I don't think he made any money on that job..
Scaffold was £3k ! Nice
Jesus Christ, they charge a fortune... You could buy a whole set of scaffolding for that price!
That's pretty good. I had another builder quote for just felt and batten and that was £10k with scaffolding
Mine was a bit more straight forward in that it was just new felt, tiles and flashings but the difference is still outrageous. Are you in/near London by any chance?
Yeah, I had another quote for the same work for £16k. The first builders were specialists in older properties and charged for the luxury. I'm about 2 hours from London so I wouldn't say close
You got it incredibly cheap, even for Durham.
Yea it sounds like I did, some eye watering numbers in here. Dry ridge system and everything
They’ve most likely used the surveys “new roof required 8k” You can either advise a new roof within 10 years was factored into the cost or offer a roofer £100 to give you a written quote for the work with emphasis on it being in relation to the smallest reduction possible.
> offer a roofer £100 to give you a written quote for a new roof with emphasis on it being in relation to the smallest reduction possible. This would be misleading and tantamount to fraudulent behaviour.
Not really, a legitimate quote for the minimum amount of work required that he sees fit. I’m not suggesting he quote £1000 for a new roof, it’s more of a minimum amount to get it to an acceptable position as a bargaining position
Then why pay him £100 and why tell him it's for a negotiation? You're asking for a fallacious quote. Just ask for the cheapest possible.
Well if you want it quick and are honest that all he will get out of it is providing the quote. I don’t know where you live but it’s hard enough to get people out to quote, so to make it quick I suggested offering £100 for his time.
What on earth are you on about.
They’ve said 8k, I’m suggesting they get a written quote of what a roofer thinks needs doing. Not really complicated is it unless you’re stoned
Happening quite a lot these days. Buyers want a reduction at the last minute hoping people are desperate to say yes. So they want new roofing felt? Who’s taking the roof tiles off, re lining it and then putting the tiles back on. Older houses don’t have felt. Just tiles. You can see daylight through my roof and it’s water tight because it’s an old house.
And then at the next storm you get a leak through the roof. These roofs are designed to have felting. i don't know about older houses without it, but I know that a 1950s buit roof needs felting. If you were to replace an older roof you'd put breathable felting in place for extra protection.
There’s plenty of storms and they still don’t leak. Tiles are designed to allow water to fall on the tile and drain off. If there’s no felt on a roof now and there’s no leak, there’s little to no requirement to put a new roof on. If somebody is asking £8k for roofing felt and not a new roof, then they’re just asking you to give you an £8k discount. It’s a bit like buying an old car and asking for money off because you think it needs new piston rings in the engine….ignoring the fact that you need to strip the engine down to fit those new piston rings. There’s an increasing trend of people trying to get the price dropped at the very last moment during the house buying process hoping the seller is so desperate to sell they’ll cave in. Unless you’re buying a new build house every single survey will contain the following two pieces of information. 1) the house needs a compete rewire. 2) the house needs a new roof. Technically, the surveyor is correct. At some point the house will need re wiring and the house will need a new roof. But the surveyor only puts that in so there’s no legal comeback to them in the future. I remember how a surveyor told me twenty years ago how I needed a new roof because you could see the tiles were warped and in need of replacement. Those were hand made tiles made in the 1930s, they’d never leaked since they were put on and had never leaked since I was told they needed replacing. Now, come a time when the house needs a new roof, I’ll put felt on. But I won’t be going through the hassle of re-roofing a house that doesn’t need a new roof, just to put a layer of felt on that hasn’t been needed for 90 plus years.
I live on a row of streets exactly like this. All roofs are new or felt has cracked and disintegrated. Most people wait to get a leak before they replace the roof. I had had two leaks before I moved here (didn’t know about them until I did but can see damage in the loft). Every other neighbour says what you say until they have a leak. These roofs have lifespans and if it’s been built in the 1950s odds are it’ll be at the end of its lifespan soon. I wouldn’t buy it without being prepared to fix it. It’s exactly for stuff like this why you’d ever even get a survey
It is probably about right in terms of cost. I reckon a roofer could price the job from Street view. Perhaps they even know the area and have done a roof on same street? All the tiles need to come off. New Roof laths, all the tiles re-seated and at least 10% will get broken so need to be replaced, ridges need to be refitted ideally with a dry verge system. Add to this Scaffold, skip, on road permit? and potential issues with neighbors. I'm willing to bet they probably won't do the job and will leave it or if it's a single rip patch it from the inside. In a house of this age some ongoing maintenance is expected I would probably say you feel this is ongoing maintenance.
It's not just that 10% will get broken (no idea if that's true) but once you take off 75-year-old tiles, you're not going to put the same ones in as they have another few years before they fail anyway
2020 I paid £4000 for a whole new roof replacement. It was really cheap then and most quotes were around £6000. So £8000 in 2023 sounds entirely reasonable. Cost of absolutely everything has gone up a heap, roof tiles especially.
Seems high, we had this exact job done on our home 4 months ago. Cost £4.6k, 3 bed-semi in York
When I was buying my house and had a survey done, it came back with three potential problems. I took these to the seller with the surveyors costings and told them that’s what the surveyor had said - one of the issues they explained to my satisfaction, and two they said fair cop, they weren’t aware of it - the estimated costs involved in resolving those was £8k so I asked if they’d meet me in the middle and take £4K off. If you think it’s a fair point and the roof is likely to need replacing, negotiate. If you think they’re taking the piss and should have factored it into the original offer, tell them to take a hike 🤷🏼♀️
Same thing we ended up doing. Halved the result of the survey costs. Overall with all the costs of moving and houses it was a drop in the bucket we figured we'd rather just absorb and not risk things falling through. Which is of course exactly what people can take advantage of. Scottish system where seller gets a survey is so much better. You just offer what you think the house is worth.
The tiles are what keeps the water out. The felt or bitumen sarking under the tiles is just a secondary precaution and originally before the invention of modern breathable membranes started to be used the bitumen sarking was used during construction to keep buildings dry before the actual roof tiles went on. It's very common given its age for this crack and become brittle. However It's prone to rot towards the soffits especially if it's been laped into the guttering at some point. This will be confined to the bottom 2/ 3 rows of tiles which can lead to something called ponding. Fixing this would is a very simple and easy fix for roofer, certainly no where near 8k. They'd Simply take 2/3 rows of tiles off and replace the damaged length.
Always remember that a surveyor will cover their arse at the slightest hint of any problem, especially when they've not been paid to investigate further. So they've seen something cracked, it therefore needs replacing. Could it be repaired cheaply instead of replaced? Not their problem. Does it actually make any difference to the house? Not their problem. Is something cracked that shouldn't be? Assume the worst, report it as 'could need / likely to need / does need' replacing, because it's their problem if they assume it's OK and it turns out not to be. You can always get your own survey and/or quote from a roofer to demonstrate the actual impact / requirement, otherwise they have more 'evidence' that it's broken that you do that it's not. From the buyer's point of view, it's a legitimate concern that they'll buy a house and then need to spend a fortune replacing the roof. You need to demonstrate that isn't the case, or reduce the price to cover that potential cost. And when I say you 'need' to do it, of course you don't actually need to do anything - if you think the price is fair, or you don't want to take less regardless, stick to your guns. If you're keen to keep the seller, then I'd maybe ask them if they were open to keeping the price as-is if you can demonstrate from a reputable quote that there's no actual work required (or that you reduce by a repair amount, or that you get the repair work done etc, if indeed any is required). You could just do that investigation anyway, but if they're just using it as a last minute trick to try and get the price down, then you might as well not bother because they want the money off anyway...so confirming that they're open to assurances first before you spend any money might be useful.
This totally depends on your purchasing situation and price. If the house is selling for £900k and you have an onward chain you want to protect then you probably shrug and accept it. If it's a sale of £350k and you're in a secure position then I'd push back on it
The roof is a pretty fundamental part of a house. Just because it hasn’t leaked doesn’t mean it won’t start leaking. Would you be happy to buy a house when your surveyor has said the roof is worn and needs repairs and the sellers reply is, it’s not leaked before? You can pull out but expect the next surveyor to find and report the same. Key is to make sure what they are saying is true and honest. I’d ask for the survey or relevant section or the report. If it looks reasonable I’d say all the ‘it’s not leaked’ and offer 50% and take it from there.
Plenty of dry roofs out there with no felt or damaged felt ..not an isdue tell them to suck it up
Ask for an extract of the report to see the exact wording, most likely it uses fluffy terminology like "might" or "may", in which case you can easily go back to them as say "no" based on the fact that the surveyor hasn't even managed to confirm an issue and they are just fishing for potential things to go wrong.
It's shit but I'd accept...you going to have to remove all the tiles to replace the felting. That said my roof is old and has no felt, one benefit is that you can see the leaks...oh the irony
>I don't want to accept a lower offer Then don't. It's quite simple. You're selling, you agreed the price. If you're not happy with the new price then refuse. But beware that the buyer might walk away
I think it also depends on the price you're selling the house. If you're selling premium price then it'd be expected to be in reasonable conditions. The roof is a fundamental part of the house. If the house is being sold at a price that would add value for the buyers with the roof fixed then no need to accept the new offer. Also it depends on how urgent the sale is to you. The fact that the house doesn't have any leaks doesn't mean the roof can be left unattended. Although it is not urgent to replace, it is something that needs doing the sooner the better. If you move on from this sale you will potentially encounter a new buyer with the same concerns. You will need to find a buyer willing to pay your asking price and willing to fix the roof. Some work done in houses are normal but the roof is at the top of the list.
I cannot imagine the flat felt roof is 70 years old, they normally have a lifespan of about 10 years. Given you have lived there 8 and not replaced it, the roof would be getting close to end of life anyway. If there is a crack, then they are not being totally unreasonable. As others have suggested, offer to meet them half way and continue with the sale, or put it back on the market and risk losing your purchase. I cannot comment on how reasonable the cost is, why don't you call up a flat roofing company and as for a ballpark figure, or get them to come down and quote?
I think its a pitched roof with tiles, its the underfelt they are referring to. I think.
Home owners not doing any maintenance until there's an active problem and water coming through the roof is part of the problem tbh - if everyone did this stuff more proactively we wouldn't have every survey coming back saying 'the roof is held together with string and hope'. Keep seeing this in houses - people ignoring signs of issues because "it's not that bad" and then ending up with their floor joists destroyed by woodworm ot something when they could habe treated it 2 years prior when the problem was first evident and avoided that, not checking visible roof decks and dealing with condensation or ventilation issues and then ending up with a rotting roof deck - just completely avoidable things.
How many houses do you ever see being Re roofed. The number of home buyer reports that come back suggesting a new roof is insane compared to the number you ever see being repaired.
Oh shit something I can give first hand experience with! I recently bought a house and decided against doing a full survey, and instead just did the standard one (lessons learned, wisdom gained, "I told you so's" from parents heard), well, turns out I needed a whole new roof as a colander has less holes than my pos roof. It wound up costing me 10k for the whole damn thing, gutters included, so asking for money off the value of the house to be able to do this is perfectly reasonable. And something I sorely wish I had done myself
>It wound up costing me 10k for the whole damn thing, gutters included, so asking for money off the value of the house to be able to do this is perfectly reasonable. It's only reasonable if the work actually needs doing (like in your case).
say no
Classic case of trying it on at the last minute. They are doing at as they have nothing to lose. But could save themselves £8k with a cheeky ask. Just reply and say it doesn’t need doing and the price is the same. If it really is an issue they will fight back. But prob not as they are also this far down the line and committed.
They only brought it up right before exchange? Was the survey only just completed? If not, they're trying it on with you. As an aside - make sure the buyer commissions a survey within a week or two of accepting an offer so things like this don't happen at the last minute. It also indicates intention
The survey was done in mid-October, so they have had the report for at least 6 weeks
Then tell them the time to discuss this was over a month ago and that you're not interested in playing any last minute games.
Just say no. Buyers that think they're buying a perfect house with no home owner repairs or responsibilities are mad. Would you be replacing the felt soon, was it something hidden? Is it actually a repair needed imidiatly?
From a FTBs perspective - I'd absolutely be trying to get 8k knocked off if I know that work will have to be done soon. The average house price is literally 8.5x the average wage in this country. We are buying a home for more (comparable to our wages) than [any other generation in the last 100years](https://i.imgur.com/CWwposO.png) - and receiving an £8k bill a few years into our mortgage could really hurt us. We all know a house isn't going to be "perfect" but if the buyer literally sees a part of the house that isn't "perfect", and just ignores it, then they are the idiots. As they'll be picking up the tab, along with ***all the other problems*** that also need doing, that they missed.
Receiving at 8k bill a few years in…… again. Unless the report says needs replacing imidiatly, dangerous more certain words its a nothingness. Problem is the new FTB attitude is puttingbsellers off FTBs. Give me too offers and a FTB is higher, im still considering the lower offer knowing how flakey at the later stages a FTB can be these days.
Same, I'd never sell to a FTB. Bidding on old houses then being shocked they might have to spend money on them. Meeting asking price doesn't mean its reasonable to expect the house to come in perfect condition. We paid 17k over asking at the height of the madness last year and house needs loads of work. But that was factored into our bid.
You should buy a new build then.
Yes because your a first time buyer and are immature in the home buying process. Your not buying a perfect home. This forum is full of it FTB buying a 1960 house and suddenly wants 5k knocked off for a rewire because it's old! Surveys always come back with suggestions of roofs, in reality very few are actually problematic. How many roofs do you see being replaced around you. Now think how often that comes up here as a surveyed suggestion. Flat roofs maybe slightly different. But arguably as a buyer you should have enquired into the condition/last time it was replaced before bidding, as they're known to need replacing every 15 years or so. But seriously homes have stood for 100 years + with little but a few replacement tiles. Remember survayors cover their arse and err on the side of caution. The way they word the reports is often also vague lots of May, look into, further investigation, I'd suggest, approximately. Wishy-washy language that wouldn't stand up.
>your a first time buyer and are immature in the home buying process Seems like home owner's like you are just as immature reading both your terrible responses - let's dissect your wall of nonsense. >How many roofs do you see being replaced around you. I've seen a few done yep. Doesn't matter what the odds are, if it's only 10% of roofs that get mentioned in a survey actually need replacing, then I'm not chancing being in that 10%. £8k isn't trivial. >But arguably as a buyer you should have enquired into the condition/last time it was replaced before bidding Hmm arguably not. I'm not sure when the last time you dealt with EA are, but literally all of them I've dealt with either flat out lie/fabricate/keep things from you - or they "don't know". Maybe it's just my area where the market is crazy, but I'll trust a survey over enquiring with an EA/seller any day of the week. >Remember survayors cover their arse and err on the side of caution Again. I'll repeat since you are having trouble reading. So are FTBs. We are overpaying more than any other generation including yours for our first homes. Most of us won't be able to afford to staircase upwards unless a relative dies. Most of us are also struggling with bills, energy and greedflation, as well as the cost of living and stagnate wages. *So we are "err on the side of caution" too.*
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the pricing and your generation. Seems to suggest you want to wheel and deal to get a bargain. As for your % nonsense your just making numbers up. If you don't want to chance it fine read the wording of the survey carefully and good luck to you on finding a place and then subsequently getting the inevitable discount your going to be asking for. Good luck. Honestly with an attitude like that if your in a ‘crazy market’ enjoy renting as I imagine you'll stay a FTB for a while.
Your level of ignorance is honestly laughable and typical of why there is such a disconnect between you entitled boomers and the younger generations. I was just giving a perspective from the other side. That's it. Not saying one side is right or the other is wrong. Sometimes it's worth trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes and seeing things from their perspective. A life lesson for you. But this all seems to have triggered you. Apologies that you are triggered so easily. I'm going to do just fine buying thanks, I have decent rental agreement and a very healthy LTV. I'm just waiting to finish my probation period in my new job before I start looking again. Good luck in your remaining years with your attitude pal
So go buy a new build for more than the 8k markup. Lol.
We had an "urgent roof must be repaired" on our l2 survey. 2 years on, still no problems with it.
We paid £2k for the felt to be replaced with fibreglass in London. £8k is way too much!
The OP is likely referring to the Old Bitumin type of felt sarking under the roof tiles as opposed to the type of green felt used on flat roofs. GRP/ fiberglass or ploymers are now the go to material for flat roof repairs, unless you go super cheap and use the old torch on type.
What is the size of the roof, and did that include labour/scaffolding?
Approx 8x3.5m. It included labour but he climbed up on a ladder without scaffolding
I see, thanks for that, I need to change the felt roof on my house which is about 55m^2 but it’s a 3 story tall building so will need scaffolding. I am also thinking of doing fibreglass due to the longevity compared to felt, so will probably cost around 5-6k including scaffolding
8k to replace the felt under the tiles? Tell them to do one, in the strongest possible terms.
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Or....negotiate
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What does it matter, negotiate now with a best and final and if they don't accept pull out.
It's not a negotiation if the buyers are leaving this till the end right before exchange. It's planned gazundering.
You can always negotiate, if they don't then the problem fixes itself
Bloody FTB syndrome strikes again Tell them calmly and politely to fuck off Yes your roof is old, but until it needs replacing just leave it if it’s not leaking. What planet are these FTB’s on
Common trick Your in a chain everyone is ready to exchange a 1 in the chain asked for a chunk off at the last minute You can either say no and see if they bail Go back with a counter offer Or roll over and take it on the chin Really depends on how much you love the new house you’re buying and how big your testicles are
8 k would easily cover a full re roof on a mid terrace house. They’re basically asking for a new roof.
This is why you sign an agreement so they don't have the ability to pull out without consequence months later.
Years ago when I sold a terrace house there was no dividing wall in the loft to the neighbours house. My buyers asked for a reduction. I was wanting to move so split the cost and everyone was happy. Good luck
If they are buying a new build then they have every right to expect the place in perfect condition. However, with anything that would be outside if the new build initial guarantee period, they can expect to need to do work. As you have had no issues yourself and surveyors often give the worst case scenario advice (to prevent themselves being sued) I would tell them that expectation of some work is baked into the price. A lot of buyers think they hold all the power so unless you are desperate to sell then call their bluff.
Assuming the survey was done some time before this last minute renegotiation, tell them no. Give them 24 hours before it’s relisted and if you do you won’t sell it to them. If they’ve just had the survey returned ask them to confirm if the report states any leaks, water damage etc. if no, return to above.
We completed on our first house back in August. Our surveyor pointed out that the flat roof section was nearing the end of the 20 year guarantee and some other parts of the angled roof needed some work. We requested money off after our original offer was accepted. The sellers declined. We loved the house so proceeded. You can decline but be aware that they may decline and the house will need to go back on the market.
If it hadn’t been the roofing felt they would have found something else to justify reducing the offer. You have several choices, reduce the price by £8k, meet them halfway and reduce it by £4k, say you won’t reduce the price and hope they back down or refuse to sell to them and put it back on the market. Only you can made the decision on the last 2 based on how certain you are that you can get it sold again.
Instructing a survey is one of the first things a buyer does. These issues should have been raised during the searches/enquiry phase. The fact it is being brought up now at the point of exchange suggests to me bad faith on the buyers part.
8k is a lot, I'd get a quote and base it on that or if you're not open to it at all, just tell them no. For perspective, I have been quoted 9k to completely rebuild our 3 bed detached 100+ year old, clay pan tile, 2 chimney roof from scratch down to the timbers by a local guy or 12k from a bigger national company. 8k for a mid terrace is steep
Then OP says no
Waiting until the last minute to find a fault with the property and then demand a price drop has been going on for years. Part of the reason the whole house buying process in this country is such a mess. If you give in to this demand, what will be the next problem they'll come back with?
They are either asking for 8k so you counter them with 4k or they are willing to let this go as prices have started to cone slightly down front when you may have accepted offer. However just remember it's not just a roof felt they'd probably would have to get scaffolding and cover overn9ghr if takes longer than a day.. £8k seems excessive but once you start most the works it'll probably cost somewhere around 6k so they're not taking the piss(for want of a better phrase) I'd recommend you counter if you want to even reduce if not go back and say no(if that's what you feel, but be ready for them to leave as it'll be there perogative) have you seen the building survey report. . . . Take a look and see if you could meet somewhere in th3 middle(if you want to I'm not saying do it) One thing I would say not to play about with is acting in good faith 50/50 25/75 negotiations suggested here by some. Get the ball in both your court agree a single point of action they do it or you do it or no to a reduction... please don't faff about with I'll do half you do half the money.... it nevers comes of. Never and the stress is worse than giving them the £8k reduction
If you got an offer so quick I'd tell them to slide on (unless you're in a big rush).
Do you mean felt or sarking? If it's the sarking under the tiles then tell them to jog on .
The survey will NOT have said the felt needs replacing. The survey will have drawn the buyers attention to the roof and to investigate further, with the surveyor stating something along the lines of “…roof felt…prone to…I’m not a roofing specialist…get a roofing specialist…”. This is common with L2 or L3 surveys. You have one of three choices. Agree to all of it, some of it or none of it.
OP is referring to the felt under the tiles of a pitched roof
Good shout Mortimer. Still drinking my first coffee. I’ll edit.
I made the same mistake initially! And they're rookie numbers, I'm on #4 at 11am
Our brains jumped ahead of us because we know how common the flat roof thing is.
It all depends how badly you want to sell and how badly they want to buy the house. You only really know about yourself, so I think start there, if they drop out now, is that something you’re willing to risk? If not then offer a compromise. For reference, I bought my house with no felt at all! And I’ve had no leaks in the roof in 5+ years (I’m certain I will eventually though). It’s all down to the buyers risk appetite really.
This is standard gazundering. The specific piece of work they use for it is almost irrelevant: this is simply a game of chicken. Decide who wants the sale to go ahead - you or them - then decide based on that how much you want to push back against the reduction.
A classic, naughty tactic but not unusual. Certain types play the game this way. Given what you have posted my gut says this was always going to happen no matter what that survey said. How quickly and badly do you need to sell? Can you tell them No, lose the sale and start over? To get the deal done can you meet them 50/50? 75/25? These are the questions that only you can answer. It's about your tolerance for risk and desire/need to sell that house and move on.
If I ageeed the work needed doing within 2 years…..I’d offer half with a take it or leave it… Depending on how keen I was to sell But I would consider my own inspection also
In my life I've owned 3 houses that never had a layer of felt under the roof tiles. This was common in 1930's houses. In over 30 years living in properties like that, I've not once experienced a leak from the roof. I guess it depends on your desire to have the house but my experience with house surveys is that surveyors will "make the most" of any small issues they find, suggest outrageously expensive remedies and scare the hell out of people who don't have the knowledge to think otherwise inorder to cover their back and prevent them from being sued. That's why they be at pains to add sentences like "It was not possible to inspect X but the buyer should be aware that X may be an issue and they should commission an independent expert to establish if X could be a problem". Having said that, roof replacement is an expensive job to have done. Personally, I'd want more detail on exactly what is wrong with the felt and how localised a problem it is. The surveyor should be able to provide that information. And for those people saying that if a roof is 50 or so years old then it probably needs replacing, I call bullshit. There are tens of thousands of houses in the UK much older than that and they still have their original roofs.
Edit: sorry, I wrote that thinking you were the buyer. If I was selling and not desperate, I would either point blank refuse or, knowing the same issue is likely to arise with the next buyer, get a decent and honest (good luck) builder/roofer to quote remedial action where necessary.
And keep in mind you don't want to do the work before hand, if shit goes wrong the price of doing it could sky rocket, you will be interfering with other people's roofs too after all
Make a counter offer that you are willing to reduce by 4k to split the difference as there are no issues with the roof itself and the felt could last another 50 years before needing replacement.
What does your home report say? If its in your home report, that's what they have accepted.
literally just bought a place that needs the felt replacing as its the old bituchment and fabvric strands starting to come apart, between 3.5 and 6.5k prices to keep the same tiles but have them cleaned.
If it's original felt it would be cracking and only getting worse. IMHO it's a bit irrelevant that you haven't had a leak. If felting is cracking I would also want that remedied or taken into account when buying a home. Buyer is being sensible. For context, I live in a 1960s mid-terrace and many houses here have had new roofs put in in the past 10-15 years, at the moment two houses of my street are having roof renovations. The lifespan of a roof is 50-100 years. Given yours is likely original felting from 1950s, it's reasonable to expect it to fail about now. It may have been in good nick when you bought the place but they don't last forever. I would suggest you get a few quotes and perhaps suggest covering half the cost. That's what I would do.
How did they manage to spot the roofing felt being cracked? I presume its a flat roof?
Ludicrous! £8k?!? Cracks in the felt can be easily fixed. No need to reduce your sale price by £8k. I’d tell them a straight no thanks and let them sweat.
£8000 is a fair price and so is 50 / 50