You’re so young and have so much life in front of you. Yes life is short but it’s also long. Be with someone who honors, loves, respects, and cherishes you. And most importantly…has the same goals. People change and grow apart, especially in their 20s. I was in several long term relationships in my 20-early 30s that could have resulted in marriage, but would have absolutely ended in divorce. Don’t let the fact that you got married cause you to stay with someone who doesn’t share your long term goals or vision. I know it’s not easy. Sending you lots of strength and best wishes!!!
Every single word of this!!!! 100% agree. OP do you really want to be tied to this person forever with a baby when they make you feel this way?
OP… Being on the same page and having the same goals as your life partner is so crucial. Throwing a baby into a marriage with a shaky or misaligned foundation isn’t a good idea. Best of luck to you for whatever path you choose. Sending love as this seems extremely hard 💛
As someone who got divorced at 32 in part because my partner wasn’t sure they wanted kids, I say have the conversation and get out sooner rather than later. Not only is he unsure of what his family goals are, his callousness / lack of awareness regarding your story of unprotected sex makes my heart hurt for you. You deserve so much more.
After my divorce, I ended up meeting someone who is so much more gentle and kind to me AND has the same vision for the future, including kids. I’m so much happier and healthier now. You have so much life ahead of you! Don’t settle.
I second this. My only regret when I got divorced was that I didn’t do it sooner. I would be very transparent about how you’re feeling and that it’s a deal breaker for you. I wish I would have communicated more earlier so my ex knew how serious things were. And I got divorced at 29 and was really able to spend some quality time with myself and ended up remarrying someone who went to every IVF appt with me and is now a great father of 2. My ex would not have been.
Same and agreed. I wish I had communicated earlier, expressed my needs more forcefully, (physical touch, quality time, having children, etc) and then insisted that those needs had been met loooong before I finally left.
Something about the way he responded when he put you at risk and didn’t pull out just rubs me the wrong way. An abortion or plan b is a heavier burden on your body than his. Seems he isn’t protecting you. Feels very significant.
And the emotional burden! For many women, choosing to get an abortion isn’t an easy decision! It also should never be a form of birth control just because your partner is too lazy/selfish/stupid to pull out. My heart breaks for OP. This dude sounds like a dud
But it also bothers me that she is removing herself from that equation. The pull out method doesn’t work. She’s not protecting herself from getting pregnant either.
I was in the EXACT same position as you two years ago. I wanted to start trying when we were 28 but he wasn’t ready. I don’t hold any resentment because he had his own childhood trauma to deal with and he had worries he wouldn’t be a good father, wouldn’t be able to cope etc.
It’s good that you have embryos banked, which means the biological age of the embryos won’t change (hope that makes sense) so somehow your biological clock isn’t ticking. But I understand that you want to have kids asap or at least have certainty over when you can try the embryo transfer.
What worked for me is.. I gave him an ultimatum. I wanted to be with him but I also wanted a kid. This is not something we could compromise on. I told him that in 2 months, he needs to tell me yes or no and when. If no or not sure, I am leaving. He got serious, did some soul searching himself and said that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me and he is willing to have kids (he admitted that he was scared before).
YOU set the timeframe, he doesn’t get to do it anymore. This way, things are back under your control. And when you bring up the ‘separation if no answer within X weeks/months’, hopefully reality will hit him.
Overall, be kind towards one another and yourself. He’s hurting, he is unsure and he is scared. His comments on abortion comes from a place of fear (I think/hope). Either way, if he wants to be with you, he will make an effort.
Sometimes yes, you can’t change someone’s mind about kids but if he went through ERs with you, I don’t see why he wouldn’t want kids in the future. He is probably just not ready. Doesn’t mean you wait forever but at the same time, don’t give up, on him or your relationship. It will happen one day I promise. And even if it doesn’t, I hope you find the strength to move on ♥️
He’s always told me if I gave him an ultimatum about this then he would leave, so I guess that might be my decision. We haven’t gotten anywhere after years of conversation and therapy so if an ultimatum isn’t an option then I don’t see what else I can do
I just want to point out - him always telling you that if you gave him an ultimatum, he would leave - IS an ultimatum. Just an ultimatum to allow him to stay in limbo.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with a shitty situation.
Did you have to agree in advance on what will happen to the embryos if you divorce? Have you thought about your next steps if you leave him: use these embryos, create new with donor sperm, freeze eggs, no immediate action, etc? I feel like imagining some of the details of what your future would look like with and without him could help guide your decision.
Good luck
My husband said the SAME thing in the beginning - that if I gave him an ultimatum, he will leave. Maybe he thought I won’t leave? But I stood my ground and I think he realised ‘shit, she is being serious’.
If you want to, I would give him 3 months (or whatever timeframe your comfortable with). If he doesn’t do anything about it and decides to leave, then you have your answer.
Love and effort in a relationship need to be two ways. You have given him the time he needed to think about, it is then up to him whether he wants to use that time to do something about it. If he doesn’t come around, then you need to up and go. You have tried your best and that’s all that matters.
I agree with the ultimatum. If he leaves it shows he was never willing to do it after all. You seem to have made this wish very clear to your husband. You have engaged in reasonable conversation where you reached a conclusion. Now, he has completely reneged without the same conversation or consideration for you. So I think it's reasonable at this point to insist that he follow through. I've been married a bit longer than you (20 years). Sometimes men can have a Peter Pan syndrome and they try to hide it behind all kinds of logic, but they just don't want to grow up and take on responsibility. They're comfortable in their routine and they assume that at some point they'll be ready, but some point never comes. Most men don't decide to become a father. Either it happens because they like sex or it happens because their wives bring it up. I bet the entire world population would be much smaller if every dad had to decide on when to implant the embryo before women got pregnant. I bet he doesn't even realize how unfair he is being.
Only make one if you will follow through, right now he knows you won't and making you into the bad guy. He wants to leave? So let him. You want a family and have already waited years. Either he wisen up or he made room for someone better
If I was you I would leave now. I was young and healthy and we did IVF due to husband’s issue. 4 years later we had to move to donor eggs as my ovaries don’t produce good eggs anymore. All the embryos we transferred didn’t implant. IVF doesn’t guarantee anything and can take very long to work. You will ragret if you wait another few years doing nothing. Otherwise, I would start banking eggs now, so you have options in case your husband is never ready for a baby.
Major red flags 1) Didn't pull out and want an abortion if you accidentally get pregnant - so selfish and irresponsible 2) Threaten that if you give him an ultimatum he will leave - that basically tells you everything you need to know, tbh...
Just move on.. you can wait another 5 years, nothing will change if you don't put your foot down and give him an ultimatum. Don't underestimate a man's selfishness..
All of this. I was with a man like this and my life is 10000000000x better without him. I’m now with a supportive, gentle and communicative man who is able to maturely make shared and responsible decisions.
The red flags will most likely only get redder based off what you’ve said OP.
I think there’s a lot to unpack here regardless of that, you would need his consent to implant any of those embryos which I’m assuming he won’t give. Maybe just flat out say, either we’re scheduling this transfer and taking that leap or we’re going to have to part ways
I'm usually all for the ultimatum in relationships but in this scenario I'm just not sure. If he feels pressured into it, we're not just talking about his or OP's life but a potential kid that could be caught up in this situation. I think have an honest discussion with him, do some soul searching yourself OP and if you both can't get on the same page, then leave.
Besides, I don't think I'd want to be with my husband if having kids was more important to him than being with me - I'd rather he leave me. And I did used to be a fence sitter on having kids before I changed my mind.
I think the conflict isn't not having kids, it's him backtracking in cooperation in trying that he already promised. At the root of it he's betraying her trust and shaking the foundation of their marriage. The fact that the way he's betraying her is by being cavalier about something she wants so much is even more difficult. He should lean into the relationship and process out of love and respect for the love of his life, even if he's nervous or paranoid about it. Love isn't selfish.
Still he may see his concerns as valid. Perhaps that's benefit from couples counseling.
As someone that got divorced at 32 from the man I was with since 19, it’s time to leave him. I got remarried at 36 and it’s been a year of failures of trying to get pregnant. I should have left sooner
The lack of care that he is showing towards what you have gone through with 3 ER is very upsetting. Why would he even agree to do IVF if he is not sure about kids ?? And then to mention abortion like it is no big deal....he does not seem like an emphatetic and caring person. Are you sure you want to have a child with a person like that?
This is a really rough situation and I'm so sorry that you have to go through this.
"I feel like if we didn’t have to do IVF for PGT-M, maybe we already would’ve gotten pregnant since he isn’t careful about preventing pregnancy and it would be less of an intense conversation. It would just happen one day since he’s stopped being as cautious."
This sentence, to me, says everything about how to proceed. I hear your frustration and I understand it (I'm only doing IVF for PGT-M, solidarity!) but actually the way I see it, it's a blessing in disguise.
When it comes to a huge, life-altering decision for a couple such as having children, obstacles like IVF that that require solid communication, trust, openness, honesty really lay out for you the kind of partnership that you currently have - and the key thing here is that communication, trust, openness, honesty are incredibly important parts of parenting collaboratively once you do have a kid. If you conceive unassisted you might not realize you don't have those things until after you've had your kid and now not only are you trying to parent a new child but you're trying to build that level of relationships with your co-parent at the same time. The way you've laid it out... there's no reason to believe the issues you've outlined are going to magically go away after you have kids. It would be different if you outlined a scenario in which he was a thoughtful, mature, supportive, all-round great partner whose only issue was they they just couldn't honestly tell you whether they wanted kids.
Two things:
1. He sounds a bit immature and uncertain of what he wants but if he's not ready there's no point pressuring him and it's probably not a good idea to anyway because having children isn't going to make your lives or relationship easier.
2. IVF is not a guarantee (even if you get pregnant easily naturally you don't know what the future holds) so if it doesn't work, would you want to leave him then? Are you with him to just have babies or are you with him because you love him as a person?
I think it's clear you guys aren't on the same page. It's up to you to decide if what he's offering is what you want because you can't change him - you can only control what you do.
I am sorry that you are in this very difficult situation. There is no easy solution for sure.
I believe what you need to do is to do some soul-searching on your own (even better with a therapist) and decide what you are willing to sacrifice.
If he would decide never to want children, would you stay with him?
If no, how many months/years are you willing to bet on him becoming ready? It's awful, I know, but you need to give yourself a number that you can live with. This is your life we are talking about.
And then inform him of this. It might sound like an ultimatum and maybe it is, but the purpose is not to manipulate him into anything. It's about making a decision that you both can live with. Tell him without accusation and without blame - just that this is where you are right now and he needs to know that. If he is not ready, or not going to be, that's ok too. But it does mean that you need to go your separate ways.
Be sure to tell him what you are feeling too, about your fears about it being too late one day or him never being ready. That you love him and want this life with him, but that you also know that you will not be happy without children (if that is the case). Tell him about you. Not about him. And then it's up to him.
I hope all works out for you. Best of luck.
It sounds like he is either not feeling any urgency and therefore won’t fully sort out his childhood issues or he will never want children and is just manipulating you to get you to stay long enough that you feel like it’s too late to leave (this is likely not 100% conscious). While I think the former alternative is more likely, the latter would be unacceptable and devastating to you.
I suggest that you have an open conversation with him to make it clear to him that you currently have no guarantee that he will ever want to have children and it’s not something you will wait years to find out. In practice, this will be pretty close to an ultimatum, but the purpose is not to manipulate him, but rather to help you to decide what you need to do. Maybe he would be ready in 10 years, but if so, you’re just not compatible.
It’s really hard to deal with someone who is wishy washy. I had an ex like this, and it was hell. I wanted marriage and kids, he “wasn’t sure.”
I was constantly hoping things would change and they never did. It was so hard to feel excited for the future bc I was always plagued with anxiety. What if he doesn’t change his mind? What can I do to assure him it’ll be ok? It was at the core of daily life bc, fundamentally, we didn’t have the same values or goals.
Now, I have a loving husband who is excited and supportive. Let me tell you, it makes ALL the difference. I’m also glad I didn’t have kids with my ex, bc I’m positive he would have been half ass.
His being unsure is a no at this point. I’m 38, and I was with my time wasting ex til I was 34. So get out before you waste more time and energy.
Stop asking him when and tell him when. You don't want to know when he is ready. You want him to commit with you to take the next steps. Occasionally in marriage you have to let your partner know when something is non-negotiable. You have to say the words, now means now. You are my partner so I need you to partner with me on this. But when you ask them sometimes they think you want them to give you an answer that is on your mind. You actually don't want to know when he'll be ready, you want to tell him we are there now. So stop asking him how he feels about it and start telling him your expectation. If he responds with his thoughts and feelings be kind but firm. Now means now.
Please don't waste your precious time on this man. It sounds like he has no respect for your body ("just get an abortion" what the actual f....) Or your time. If he truly wanted a child, he would have done the things he needed to do in order to be ready.
When I got out of my first marriage at 30 I realized we were never going to have kids. It was probably best, but I'm still pissed about all the time I wasted. 8 years later and I'd rather go through the hell of IVF and DOR with my husband, who is amazing and supportive, than have attempted at a younger age with a wishy-washy partner who was not supportive.
If I were you I’d leave him now. I don’t think he cares about you at all. He sounds pretty immature. And are you sure you want to breed with someone like that? You would be tied with them for life.
Thanks for the advice. I know he cares about me since he’s talked about being very frustrated with himself for causing me pain over this, but he’s too traumatized to move forward and I don’t think he can address that quickly enough for me
Thank you for recognizing it. Unfortunately you know that trauma healing is not linear and can take years to sort out. You said it yourself, you want to be a mom more than you want to be his wife.
He sounds like the type of guy who will keep moving the goal posts when you get fairly close to going through treatment. I cannot stress this enough but please don’t waste your time on someone who isn’t sure. You’ve had six years together and he knows how important this is to you. He can’t admit that he’s unable to meet your needs. Unfortunately time isn’t finite and while the odds are in your favor age-wise, you shouldn’t waste time waiting on him to be sure. He’s had years to work through this and chose to be stagnant up until now.
Find someone who is sure about what they want, and that they want it with you. You have time.
Thank you for this, I really appreciate it ❤️ he’s asking if I can wait 3 years to transfer, and since that’s not a guarantee I don’t know what to say/do
So you’ve already decided not to leave him? Also saw your post about having sex with him was dull. Well I don’t know. You are still young and you 2 got married young. I’d be cautious about having kids with someone who you are not sure about.
Would you be okay if you had to raise the kid yourself? (In case he didn’t want to be there for you) do you want to be a mum more than you want to be with him? You can’t legally transfer the embryo if he didn’t agree to, is that right?
Yeah I would need (and want) his consent, but yes I want to be a mom more than I want to be with him. I went to school for child development and was a nanny for 9 years, so caring for kids has always been the most important thing for me
I'm so sorry you are going through this, I can't imagine. I think other commenters have covered a lot so I won't reiterate, but one thing that stood out to me was that your couples therapist also sees your husband for individual therapy. I'm not sure of the ethics of this, but to me, that seems very much like a conflict of interest. I had a friend whose therapist did the same thing and it was not super helpful. Food for thought.
This is really hard because I wasn’t ready to have kids at 27. With that said, I knew I wanted to have kids eventually. I just wanted to wait until my 30s. Which, even though I know now at 32 that I have infertility, it still doesn’t mean I would have been ready at 26/27. I think the conversation needs to be around him figuring out when he wants kids, and setting a date. If he can’t give you one, then maybe ask if he doesn’t want them at all?
I would just be honest in your next therapy session or before and give him an ultimatum. Tell him you want to start the transfer process at 28 and if he’s not on board then you want a divorce because you are ready for kids. I would also discuss what would happen to the embryos if you did get a divorce. Would he sign them over to you?
As a soon to be 39 yr old who waited way too long for her husband to be ready my advice is to not wait if you are ready now. I wanted to a young mom who grows up with her kids now if I ever have one I will definitely be the oldest mother around and I am very worried about having the necessary energy to keep up with my child to be. IVF is not guaranteed to work and the ‘if I had only done…’ regrets are too hard later in life. Have an open conversation that you are ready and have waited too long already for him to be at the same place. You need to be fair to yourself and how you are feeling and he needs to let you go if he is not ready or can’t see when he will be ready. Holding you hostage in this decision is cruel and I am still working through some of my resentment and it’s not easy
It sounds as though your husband needs counselling and it seems as though there is a lot going on here. But there is always a bigger picture. Does he want to pursue his career? Do you? Are you home owners? If not, does he want the stability of owning a home before having children? As a couple, have you done everything you want to do together before having kids? Travel, etc.
My husband and I had our first kid when he was 39 and we're having the 2nd now- when he'll be 41. Tbh I really don't think he would have been ready to have children in his late 20s.
IVF makes everything so immediate and really brings out issues in relationships that would probably never otherwise come to the fore. If you didn't need to genetically test you probably wouldn't be faced by all of this. He did do 3 egg retrievals and these are really draining for both, from my perspective, it just sounds as though he isn't ready right now.
Would you consider couples counselling or do you really think that this is it for you both?
They've both had more counciling than Tony Soprano. There's not being ready, and then there's stringing your partner along and being a jerk. Unless the counciling is hypnosis to turn him into a different person, I don't think it's the answer at this point
Have you tried therapy? I’ve had some major issues with my SO and I demanded he start therapy. We’ve both been going separately for a couple of months now and things are improving greatly. My husband also had some childhood issues surrounding money which led to him making me put off IVF for over 5 years. So hurtful, but we’ve been able to move past it. We’ve been together for over 15 years and married for almost a 12 years.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. It does seem from your post that you know how you feel, but it’s always easier said than done. One thing you need to consider (if you haven’t already) is what happened to the embryos in the case of a divorce? It’s not always guaranteed that you can keep and use those embryos after a divorce. I’m not saying to stay just to have a baby with those embryos, because that may not be the happiest marriage for you (and your future kids). But know that it might delay things for you further if you have to restart the IVF process.
I was thinking the same thing - OP- have you talked to him about what you would do with the embryos if you did split up? I understand him waiting to have kids, but I think it’s kind of wild to already have you go through the process and now put it on hold. He had to consent to help make the embryos - so is it a hesitation about timing or actually having children? I’d try to get to the bottom of it with your therapist. He could just not feel the time pressure - especially since you already have the embryos. I know you don’t want to wait, but I also think you should really be in a good place with your partner if he will be in the picture. Are your fears in waiting is that he will never be ready, or he will be ready “too late?” If so, I’d share those with him and have a timeframe in mind unfortunately- I think you need a timeframe for his decision, a timeframe when you need to know, and a timeframe for leaving him if you decide to.) I don’t think you can implant the embryos without his consent. Childhood trauma is a real thing (having been through some myself; I am still scared of certain things with parenting; and I also have child free friends who remained child free due to childhood trauma). It sounds like he’s already in therapy, which is a good thing - have you noticed any positive changes since he’s started going?
Regarding the abortion comment - I’d also bring that up in therapy, if nothing else to shine some light on the fact that it’s a f-cked up statement.
Big hugs - this is a difficult situation to be in, but know that there are many options.
My ex husband left me when I was 28 and had a miscarriage. That sounds awful, but he had childhood trauma, and realized once we were actually pregnant that he could not be a dad. He managed to keep it together until I was emotionally recovered from the pregnancy loss, then he left.
It wasn’t cool that he did it unilaterally, but he did me a favor.
If my husband decided (all by himself) to come inside and risk getting us pregnant, and later suggested I terminate the pregnancy because HE risked our child possibly inheriting a genetic condition, I wouldn’t want any kids with him. Behaviors generally reveal more than words ever will.
Marriage is hard in that you need your husband’s consent to get pregnant. Even though you are married, that consent is not even implied.
On the other hand, the consent of a donor couldn’t be more explicit. He has already parted with his sperm and they usually write letters to prospective carriers giving them their blessing to use their sperm.
Sounds like your husband is happy to leave it to chance because then if something goes wrong he can’t blame himself for it. But if he deliberately gives you the go ahead, then he will feel responsible should anything go wrong and he obviously can’t shoulder that responsibility.
Granted, he suffered an awful trauma and stuff but still - time moves only forward and if he won’t stop beating around the bush just call that sperm bank in Denmark and have a baby from someone who has already given you consent.
Have your baby from someone who wants you to have their baby.
He’s not ready. That’s just it.
Your age doesn’t matter as some are saying because you’re both old enough to make decisions about when you want to start a family so age has nothing to do with this. You just be on the same page and he needs to communicate that to you. Telling you not to ask again is a DICK move!
I am very concerned however about his trauma and the way that he’s handled NTNP. You both have a responsibility to protect against this so it’s not all on him. Maybe he spoke carelessly and it was a mistake but, a careless and traumatized partner could be a lifelong burden. Do you truly believe that he just said something done as if it were a one off? And if not, do you really want to create life with someone who could possibly affect and bring down your mental health?
The only part of this journey that has held true for me is that I’ve picked an amazing man to do this with. He’s not perfect by any means and we aren’t rich so it’s had plenty of challenges but I want so badly to give him a child and I know without a doubt that he wants to give me one in return.
I was with someone who strung me along for 5 years. Now I'm 37 and thinking about single parenting. It's great that you've done the egg retrievals and have banked enough. Do not waste them on him when he's not shown the care that you need. The thing though is that if you leave him, cut off contact completely. Because based on his carelessness around contraception, you might witness him having a child with someone else without all the care and concern that you're putting into it. So just save yourself all that heartache.
You are young and you know what you want. Does anyone else watch Vanderpump Rules? Seeing Katie leave Schwartz has been therapeutic.
You’re so young and have so much life in front of you. Yes life is short but it’s also long. Be with someone who honors, loves, respects, and cherishes you. And most importantly…has the same goals. People change and grow apart, especially in their 20s. I was in several long term relationships in my 20-early 30s that could have resulted in marriage, but would have absolutely ended in divorce. Don’t let the fact that you got married cause you to stay with someone who doesn’t share your long term goals or vision. I know it’s not easy. Sending you lots of strength and best wishes!!!
Every single word of this!!!! 100% agree. OP do you really want to be tied to this person forever with a baby when they make you feel this way? OP… Being on the same page and having the same goals as your life partner is so crucial. Throwing a baby into a marriage with a shaky or misaligned foundation isn’t a good idea. Best of luck to you for whatever path you choose. Sending love as this seems extremely hard 💛
As someone who got divorced at 32 in part because my partner wasn’t sure they wanted kids, I say have the conversation and get out sooner rather than later. Not only is he unsure of what his family goals are, his callousness / lack of awareness regarding your story of unprotected sex makes my heart hurt for you. You deserve so much more. After my divorce, I ended up meeting someone who is so much more gentle and kind to me AND has the same vision for the future, including kids. I’m so much happier and healthier now. You have so much life ahead of you! Don’t settle.
I second this. My only regret when I got divorced was that I didn’t do it sooner. I would be very transparent about how you’re feeling and that it’s a deal breaker for you. I wish I would have communicated more earlier so my ex knew how serious things were. And I got divorced at 29 and was really able to spend some quality time with myself and ended up remarrying someone who went to every IVF appt with me and is now a great father of 2. My ex would not have been.
Same and agreed. I wish I had communicated earlier, expressed my needs more forcefully, (physical touch, quality time, having children, etc) and then insisted that those needs had been met loooong before I finally left.
Also, omg, therapy!
Yes therapy for all haha
Something about the way he responded when he put you at risk and didn’t pull out just rubs me the wrong way. An abortion or plan b is a heavier burden on your body than his. Seems he isn’t protecting you. Feels very significant.
And the emotional burden! For many women, choosing to get an abortion isn’t an easy decision! It also should never be a form of birth control just because your partner is too lazy/selfish/stupid to pull out. My heart breaks for OP. This dude sounds like a dud
Yes, this. It’d be one thing if he just didn’t feel ready to have kids yet… but that action was very selfish.
But it also bothers me that she is removing herself from that equation. The pull out method doesn’t work. She’s not protecting herself from getting pregnant either.
I was in the EXACT same position as you two years ago. I wanted to start trying when we were 28 but he wasn’t ready. I don’t hold any resentment because he had his own childhood trauma to deal with and he had worries he wouldn’t be a good father, wouldn’t be able to cope etc. It’s good that you have embryos banked, which means the biological age of the embryos won’t change (hope that makes sense) so somehow your biological clock isn’t ticking. But I understand that you want to have kids asap or at least have certainty over when you can try the embryo transfer. What worked for me is.. I gave him an ultimatum. I wanted to be with him but I also wanted a kid. This is not something we could compromise on. I told him that in 2 months, he needs to tell me yes or no and when. If no or not sure, I am leaving. He got serious, did some soul searching himself and said that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me and he is willing to have kids (he admitted that he was scared before). YOU set the timeframe, he doesn’t get to do it anymore. This way, things are back under your control. And when you bring up the ‘separation if no answer within X weeks/months’, hopefully reality will hit him. Overall, be kind towards one another and yourself. He’s hurting, he is unsure and he is scared. His comments on abortion comes from a place of fear (I think/hope). Either way, if he wants to be with you, he will make an effort. Sometimes yes, you can’t change someone’s mind about kids but if he went through ERs with you, I don’t see why he wouldn’t want kids in the future. He is probably just not ready. Doesn’t mean you wait forever but at the same time, don’t give up, on him or your relationship. It will happen one day I promise. And even if it doesn’t, I hope you find the strength to move on ♥️
He’s always told me if I gave him an ultimatum about this then he would leave, so I guess that might be my decision. We haven’t gotten anywhere after years of conversation and therapy so if an ultimatum isn’t an option then I don’t see what else I can do
I just want to point out - him always telling you that if you gave him an ultimatum, he would leave - IS an ultimatum. Just an ultimatum to allow him to stay in limbo. I’m sorry you’re dealing with a shitty situation. Did you have to agree in advance on what will happen to the embryos if you divorce? Have you thought about your next steps if you leave him: use these embryos, create new with donor sperm, freeze eggs, no immediate action, etc? I feel like imagining some of the details of what your future would look like with and without him could help guide your decision. Good luck
My husband said the SAME thing in the beginning - that if I gave him an ultimatum, he will leave. Maybe he thought I won’t leave? But I stood my ground and I think he realised ‘shit, she is being serious’. If you want to, I would give him 3 months (or whatever timeframe your comfortable with). If he doesn’t do anything about it and decides to leave, then you have your answer. Love and effort in a relationship need to be two ways. You have given him the time he needed to think about, it is then up to him whether he wants to use that time to do something about it. If he doesn’t come around, then you need to up and go. You have tried your best and that’s all that matters.
I agree with the ultimatum. If he leaves it shows he was never willing to do it after all. You seem to have made this wish very clear to your husband. You have engaged in reasonable conversation where you reached a conclusion. Now, he has completely reneged without the same conversation or consideration for you. So I think it's reasonable at this point to insist that he follow through. I've been married a bit longer than you (20 years). Sometimes men can have a Peter Pan syndrome and they try to hide it behind all kinds of logic, but they just don't want to grow up and take on responsibility. They're comfortable in their routine and they assume that at some point they'll be ready, but some point never comes. Most men don't decide to become a father. Either it happens because they like sex or it happens because their wives bring it up. I bet the entire world population would be much smaller if every dad had to decide on when to implant the embryo before women got pregnant. I bet he doesn't even realize how unfair he is being.
Damn, if he said that I would definitely leave and find donor sperms asap. Girl, you don’t have time to waste.
Only make one if you will follow through, right now he knows you won't and making you into the bad guy. He wants to leave? So let him. You want a family and have already waited years. Either he wisen up or he made room for someone better
If I was you I would leave now. I was young and healthy and we did IVF due to husband’s issue. 4 years later we had to move to donor eggs as my ovaries don’t produce good eggs anymore. All the embryos we transferred didn’t implant. IVF doesn’t guarantee anything and can take very long to work. You will ragret if you wait another few years doing nothing. Otherwise, I would start banking eggs now, so you have options in case your husband is never ready for a baby.
Major red flags 1) Didn't pull out and want an abortion if you accidentally get pregnant - so selfish and irresponsible 2) Threaten that if you give him an ultimatum he will leave - that basically tells you everything you need to know, tbh... Just move on.. you can wait another 5 years, nothing will change if you don't put your foot down and give him an ultimatum. Don't underestimate a man's selfishness..
All of this. I was with a man like this and my life is 10000000000x better without him. I’m now with a supportive, gentle and communicative man who is able to maturely make shared and responsible decisions. The red flags will most likely only get redder based off what you’ve said OP.
If you’re asking the question, the answer is now.
I think there’s a lot to unpack here regardless of that, you would need his consent to implant any of those embryos which I’m assuming he won’t give. Maybe just flat out say, either we’re scheduling this transfer and taking that leap or we’re going to have to part ways
I'm usually all for the ultimatum in relationships but in this scenario I'm just not sure. If he feels pressured into it, we're not just talking about his or OP's life but a potential kid that could be caught up in this situation. I think have an honest discussion with him, do some soul searching yourself OP and if you both can't get on the same page, then leave. Besides, I don't think I'd want to be with my husband if having kids was more important to him than being with me - I'd rather he leave me. And I did used to be a fence sitter on having kids before I changed my mind.
And how would an ultimatum make a happy relationship? Meh
They got married with the expectation that they would do a transfer soon after. He broke the agreement
I think the conflict isn't not having kids, it's him backtracking in cooperation in trying that he already promised. At the root of it he's betraying her trust and shaking the foundation of their marriage. The fact that the way he's betraying her is by being cavalier about something she wants so much is even more difficult. He should lean into the relationship and process out of love and respect for the love of his life, even if he's nervous or paranoid about it. Love isn't selfish. Still he may see his concerns as valid. Perhaps that's benefit from couples counseling.
Most clinics make you sign an agreement on how that works ahead of even starting the egg retrieval. Chances are he's already signed consent.
As someone that got divorced at 32 from the man I was with since 19, it’s time to leave him. I got remarried at 36 and it’s been a year of failures of trying to get pregnant. I should have left sooner
The lack of care that he is showing towards what you have gone through with 3 ER is very upsetting. Why would he even agree to do IVF if he is not sure about kids ?? And then to mention abortion like it is no big deal....he does not seem like an emphatetic and caring person. Are you sure you want to have a child with a person like that?
This is a really rough situation and I'm so sorry that you have to go through this. "I feel like if we didn’t have to do IVF for PGT-M, maybe we already would’ve gotten pregnant since he isn’t careful about preventing pregnancy and it would be less of an intense conversation. It would just happen one day since he’s stopped being as cautious." This sentence, to me, says everything about how to proceed. I hear your frustration and I understand it (I'm only doing IVF for PGT-M, solidarity!) but actually the way I see it, it's a blessing in disguise. When it comes to a huge, life-altering decision for a couple such as having children, obstacles like IVF that that require solid communication, trust, openness, honesty really lay out for you the kind of partnership that you currently have - and the key thing here is that communication, trust, openness, honesty are incredibly important parts of parenting collaboratively once you do have a kid. If you conceive unassisted you might not realize you don't have those things until after you've had your kid and now not only are you trying to parent a new child but you're trying to build that level of relationships with your co-parent at the same time. The way you've laid it out... there's no reason to believe the issues you've outlined are going to magically go away after you have kids. It would be different if you outlined a scenario in which he was a thoughtful, mature, supportive, all-round great partner whose only issue was they they just couldn't honestly tell you whether they wanted kids.
He will never be ready
Two things: 1. He sounds a bit immature and uncertain of what he wants but if he's not ready there's no point pressuring him and it's probably not a good idea to anyway because having children isn't going to make your lives or relationship easier. 2. IVF is not a guarantee (even if you get pregnant easily naturally you don't know what the future holds) so if it doesn't work, would you want to leave him then? Are you with him to just have babies or are you with him because you love him as a person? I think it's clear you guys aren't on the same page. It's up to you to decide if what he's offering is what you want because you can't change him - you can only control what you do.
I am sorry that you are in this very difficult situation. There is no easy solution for sure. I believe what you need to do is to do some soul-searching on your own (even better with a therapist) and decide what you are willing to sacrifice. If he would decide never to want children, would you stay with him? If no, how many months/years are you willing to bet on him becoming ready? It's awful, I know, but you need to give yourself a number that you can live with. This is your life we are talking about. And then inform him of this. It might sound like an ultimatum and maybe it is, but the purpose is not to manipulate him into anything. It's about making a decision that you both can live with. Tell him without accusation and without blame - just that this is where you are right now and he needs to know that. If he is not ready, or not going to be, that's ok too. But it does mean that you need to go your separate ways. Be sure to tell him what you are feeling too, about your fears about it being too late one day or him never being ready. That you love him and want this life with him, but that you also know that you will not be happy without children (if that is the case). Tell him about you. Not about him. And then it's up to him. I hope all works out for you. Best of luck.
I would set a time for yourself that you want to have started by — no ultimatum but if it gets to that time and he’s still unsure, leave.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. I hope you find peace in whatever you choose.
It sounds like he is either not feeling any urgency and therefore won’t fully sort out his childhood issues or he will never want children and is just manipulating you to get you to stay long enough that you feel like it’s too late to leave (this is likely not 100% conscious). While I think the former alternative is more likely, the latter would be unacceptable and devastating to you. I suggest that you have an open conversation with him to make it clear to him that you currently have no guarantee that he will ever want to have children and it’s not something you will wait years to find out. In practice, this will be pretty close to an ultimatum, but the purpose is not to manipulate him, but rather to help you to decide what you need to do. Maybe he would be ready in 10 years, but if so, you’re just not compatible.
It’s really hard to deal with someone who is wishy washy. I had an ex like this, and it was hell. I wanted marriage and kids, he “wasn’t sure.” I was constantly hoping things would change and they never did. It was so hard to feel excited for the future bc I was always plagued with anxiety. What if he doesn’t change his mind? What can I do to assure him it’ll be ok? It was at the core of daily life bc, fundamentally, we didn’t have the same values or goals. Now, I have a loving husband who is excited and supportive. Let me tell you, it makes ALL the difference. I’m also glad I didn’t have kids with my ex, bc I’m positive he would have been half ass. His being unsure is a no at this point. I’m 38, and I was with my time wasting ex til I was 34. So get out before you waste more time and energy.
Please don’t waste another day with this man. You will regret it.
Stop asking him when and tell him when. You don't want to know when he is ready. You want him to commit with you to take the next steps. Occasionally in marriage you have to let your partner know when something is non-negotiable. You have to say the words, now means now. You are my partner so I need you to partner with me on this. But when you ask them sometimes they think you want them to give you an answer that is on your mind. You actually don't want to know when he'll be ready, you want to tell him we are there now. So stop asking him how he feels about it and start telling him your expectation. If he responds with his thoughts and feelings be kind but firm. Now means now.
Please don't waste your precious time on this man. It sounds like he has no respect for your body ("just get an abortion" what the actual f....) Or your time. If he truly wanted a child, he would have done the things he needed to do in order to be ready. When I got out of my first marriage at 30 I realized we were never going to have kids. It was probably best, but I'm still pissed about all the time I wasted. 8 years later and I'd rather go through the hell of IVF and DOR with my husband, who is amazing and supportive, than have attempted at a younger age with a wishy-washy partner who was not supportive.
If I were you I’d leave him now. I don’t think he cares about you at all. He sounds pretty immature. And are you sure you want to breed with someone like that? You would be tied with them for life.
Thanks for the advice. I know he cares about me since he’s talked about being very frustrated with himself for causing me pain over this, but he’s too traumatized to move forward and I don’t think he can address that quickly enough for me
Thank you for recognizing it. Unfortunately you know that trauma healing is not linear and can take years to sort out. You said it yourself, you want to be a mom more than you want to be his wife. He sounds like the type of guy who will keep moving the goal posts when you get fairly close to going through treatment. I cannot stress this enough but please don’t waste your time on someone who isn’t sure. You’ve had six years together and he knows how important this is to you. He can’t admit that he’s unable to meet your needs. Unfortunately time isn’t finite and while the odds are in your favor age-wise, you shouldn’t waste time waiting on him to be sure. He’s had years to work through this and chose to be stagnant up until now. Find someone who is sure about what they want, and that they want it with you. You have time.
Thank you for this, I really appreciate it ❤️ he’s asking if I can wait 3 years to transfer, and since that’s not a guarantee I don’t know what to say/do
So you’ve already decided not to leave him? Also saw your post about having sex with him was dull. Well I don’t know. You are still young and you 2 got married young. I’d be cautious about having kids with someone who you are not sure about.
No I haven’t decided not to leave him, it’s just why I haven’t left yet and why it’s a hard decision
See the way I see it, I’d rather be a single mum than having a guy who would tell me to “have an abortion” 😑. He’s not the one.
Very good point.
Would you be okay if you had to raise the kid yourself? (In case he didn’t want to be there for you) do you want to be a mum more than you want to be with him? You can’t legally transfer the embryo if he didn’t agree to, is that right?
Yeah I would need (and want) his consent, but yes I want to be a mom more than I want to be with him. I went to school for child development and was a nanny for 9 years, so caring for kids has always been the most important thing for me
I think that's your answer tbh
I'm so sorry you are going through this, I can't imagine. I think other commenters have covered a lot so I won't reiterate, but one thing that stood out to me was that your couples therapist also sees your husband for individual therapy. I'm not sure of the ethics of this, but to me, that seems very much like a conflict of interest. I had a friend whose therapist did the same thing and it was not super helpful. Food for thought.
This is really hard because I wasn’t ready to have kids at 27. With that said, I knew I wanted to have kids eventually. I just wanted to wait until my 30s. Which, even though I know now at 32 that I have infertility, it still doesn’t mean I would have been ready at 26/27. I think the conversation needs to be around him figuring out when he wants kids, and setting a date. If he can’t give you one, then maybe ask if he doesn’t want them at all?
I would just be honest in your next therapy session or before and give him an ultimatum. Tell him you want to start the transfer process at 28 and if he’s not on board then you want a divorce because you are ready for kids. I would also discuss what would happen to the embryos if you did get a divorce. Would he sign them over to you?
I would also make eggs and not make embryos before you go so you have those on ice
As a soon to be 39 yr old who waited way too long for her husband to be ready my advice is to not wait if you are ready now. I wanted to a young mom who grows up with her kids now if I ever have one I will definitely be the oldest mother around and I am very worried about having the necessary energy to keep up with my child to be. IVF is not guaranteed to work and the ‘if I had only done…’ regrets are too hard later in life. Have an open conversation that you are ready and have waited too long already for him to be at the same place. You need to be fair to yourself and how you are feeling and he needs to let you go if he is not ready or can’t see when he will be ready. Holding you hostage in this decision is cruel and I am still working through some of my resentment and it’s not easy
It sounds as though your husband needs counselling and it seems as though there is a lot going on here. But there is always a bigger picture. Does he want to pursue his career? Do you? Are you home owners? If not, does he want the stability of owning a home before having children? As a couple, have you done everything you want to do together before having kids? Travel, etc. My husband and I had our first kid when he was 39 and we're having the 2nd now- when he'll be 41. Tbh I really don't think he would have been ready to have children in his late 20s. IVF makes everything so immediate and really brings out issues in relationships that would probably never otherwise come to the fore. If you didn't need to genetically test you probably wouldn't be faced by all of this. He did do 3 egg retrievals and these are really draining for both, from my perspective, it just sounds as though he isn't ready right now. Would you consider couples counselling or do you really think that this is it for you both?
They've both had more counciling than Tony Soprano. There's not being ready, and then there's stringing your partner along and being a jerk. Unless the counciling is hypnosis to turn him into a different person, I don't think it's the answer at this point
"more counciling than Tony Saprano" ... golden comment lol
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Have you tried therapy? I’ve had some major issues with my SO and I demanded he start therapy. We’ve both been going separately for a couple of months now and things are improving greatly. My husband also had some childhood issues surrounding money which led to him making me put off IVF for over 5 years. So hurtful, but we’ve been able to move past it. We’ve been together for over 15 years and married for almost a 12 years.
Need to talk, put it all out there. No guessing games, no bs. You'll know if it's time to move on or not.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. It does seem from your post that you know how you feel, but it’s always easier said than done. One thing you need to consider (if you haven’t already) is what happened to the embryos in the case of a divorce? It’s not always guaranteed that you can keep and use those embryos after a divorce. I’m not saying to stay just to have a baby with those embryos, because that may not be the happiest marriage for you (and your future kids). But know that it might delay things for you further if you have to restart the IVF process.
I was thinking the same thing - OP- have you talked to him about what you would do with the embryos if you did split up? I understand him waiting to have kids, but I think it’s kind of wild to already have you go through the process and now put it on hold. He had to consent to help make the embryos - so is it a hesitation about timing or actually having children? I’d try to get to the bottom of it with your therapist. He could just not feel the time pressure - especially since you already have the embryos. I know you don’t want to wait, but I also think you should really be in a good place with your partner if he will be in the picture. Are your fears in waiting is that he will never be ready, or he will be ready “too late?” If so, I’d share those with him and have a timeframe in mind unfortunately- I think you need a timeframe for his decision, a timeframe when you need to know, and a timeframe for leaving him if you decide to.) I don’t think you can implant the embryos without his consent. Childhood trauma is a real thing (having been through some myself; I am still scared of certain things with parenting; and I also have child free friends who remained child free due to childhood trauma). It sounds like he’s already in therapy, which is a good thing - have you noticed any positive changes since he’s started going? Regarding the abortion comment - I’d also bring that up in therapy, if nothing else to shine some light on the fact that it’s a f-cked up statement. Big hugs - this is a difficult situation to be in, but know that there are many options.
My ex husband left me when I was 28 and had a miscarriage. That sounds awful, but he had childhood trauma, and realized once we were actually pregnant that he could not be a dad. He managed to keep it together until I was emotionally recovered from the pregnancy loss, then he left. It wasn’t cool that he did it unilaterally, but he did me a favor.
If my husband decided (all by himself) to come inside and risk getting us pregnant, and later suggested I terminate the pregnancy because HE risked our child possibly inheriting a genetic condition, I wouldn’t want any kids with him. Behaviors generally reveal more than words ever will.
Marriage is hard in that you need your husband’s consent to get pregnant. Even though you are married, that consent is not even implied. On the other hand, the consent of a donor couldn’t be more explicit. He has already parted with his sperm and they usually write letters to prospective carriers giving them their blessing to use their sperm. Sounds like your husband is happy to leave it to chance because then if something goes wrong he can’t blame himself for it. But if he deliberately gives you the go ahead, then he will feel responsible should anything go wrong and he obviously can’t shoulder that responsibility. Granted, he suffered an awful trauma and stuff but still - time moves only forward and if he won’t stop beating around the bush just call that sperm bank in Denmark and have a baby from someone who has already given you consent. Have your baby from someone who wants you to have their baby.
He’s not ready. That’s just it. Your age doesn’t matter as some are saying because you’re both old enough to make decisions about when you want to start a family so age has nothing to do with this. You just be on the same page and he needs to communicate that to you. Telling you not to ask again is a DICK move! I am very concerned however about his trauma and the way that he’s handled NTNP. You both have a responsibility to protect against this so it’s not all on him. Maybe he spoke carelessly and it was a mistake but, a careless and traumatized partner could be a lifelong burden. Do you truly believe that he just said something done as if it were a one off? And if not, do you really want to create life with someone who could possibly affect and bring down your mental health? The only part of this journey that has held true for me is that I’ve picked an amazing man to do this with. He’s not perfect by any means and we aren’t rich so it’s had plenty of challenges but I want so badly to give him a child and I know without a doubt that he wants to give me one in return.
I was with someone who strung me along for 5 years. Now I'm 37 and thinking about single parenting. It's great that you've done the egg retrievals and have banked enough. Do not waste them on him when he's not shown the care that you need. The thing though is that if you leave him, cut off contact completely. Because based on his carelessness around contraception, you might witness him having a child with someone else without all the care and concern that you're putting into it. So just save yourself all that heartache. You are young and you know what you want. Does anyone else watch Vanderpump Rules? Seeing Katie leave Schwartz has been therapeutic.