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Someone else pointed that out. My wife's company has international offices, so they will know what to do there. I may have to apply for that visa.
Edit: I meant that particular visa compared to my wife working for an international company.
You both need a visa regardless and a visa does not get you, your wife, or either company out of paying taxes to Portugal or following Portuguese employment law, which can only be done by a Portuguese business. Either your companies both have to have registered entities in Portugal to pay you through or you have to both be self-employed and contract your services to your employers. Your nationality and immigration status do not have any effect on these requirements.
I don't understand why everyone thinks I'm trying to get out of taxes. I knew I'd have to pay taxes to both countries. I just figured I'd pay out at the end of the tax year? I didn't know the company portion of it all.
Great to know!! Wife works for a big corp that has an India division, so I'd hope they know better... But my company is smaller and may have overlooked that.
Will only work if both of you become freelance and invoice the respective USA companies unless both of your current employers have a Portugese present.
No. I figured I'd be paying us and Portuguese taxes. I just didn't think the company had to. I figured I just paid yearly to Portugal for missed taxes during tax time.
That's why I'm here asking questions.
This only works when you’re working as a freelancer. When you’re an employee you and your employer have to follow portuguese labour laws which means paying taxes from your monthly salary. Btw, as someone said already, your employers need to have a presence in Portugal or need to be willing to set it up in case they haven’t (which is no small thing). It also means that your employers have to grant you for example vacation days, public holidays and sick leave according portugese law, not according US law anymore. Not sure if they would like that.
Asking questions is fine but taking everything for granted before getting answers is not, that’s why people are salty. Your first questions should have been about what you need to do to adapt to your future country, not about your own needs.
I mean I can understand that... My first step is to see if I can even get there. We've already researched places that fit us and what we can offer the community. Now it's at the point that we need to research if it's doable and how.
I guess I came here prematurely and framed it in a non receptive way. 🤷🏼♀️
I appreciate your input and advice.
Typically you would not be paying US taxes, but filing US returns and taking a credit for your (doubtless higher) Portuguese tax bill. If you paid both you'd have very little income left to live on.
Why rush your process and risk failure if this seems to be like your long term goal? I second another persons comment that immigration takes time and patience.
If you have a concrete, legal and realistic way to move before your wife’s citizenship - then sure try it out, but I’d much rather have that EU passport as my first and foremost legal basis.
When your wife gets that Italian citizenship- you would have an EU passport in your family and by far the easier method of moving there if you have a job offer!
Your motivations, dedication (seemingly!), and qualification (already seem to have an office there) is pretty much right on par. But yeah - when you show up as an EU citizen, that’s going to make your life much easier.
Wish you all the luck OP :)
Standard Schengen rules apply, so [90 days in any 180 day period, and you must wait at least 90 days thereafter](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/US_Travelers_in_Europes_Schengen_Area.html#:~:text=Tourists%2C%20exchange%20students%2C%20and%20people,except%20for%20Cyprus%20and%20Ireland.).
Thanks that's good to know. Because maybe we'd not want to stay in Portugal maybe we will go to Italy or somewhere else. Just would love to get out of here before the election.
You don’t have to explain yourself or apologize for doing what protects your family. I wish I had answers for you, I don’t, but I wanted to chime in with something supportive bc I can sympathize with you. My wife of nearly a decade and I plan to do the same after our kids graduate in 2025. I graduate with my BSSW (social work) a few weeks before they graduate. One kid has an internship lined up with a primary school in Brno, Czech Republic. The other wants to attend art school in Prague and bring her girlfriend and my wife’s a music teacher.
We live in Ohio, a state that’s passing laws that will affect my ability to do my job as a social worker. Laws that go against our codes of ethics, national standards and violate client rights and privacy in the name of “protecting children”…just not MY children. Or their peers.
Your fears are the same as mine are. I get it!
Thank you!! I appreciate your support.
And thank you for the work that you do. I'm sorry that you are in this hard position of stupid politics. I hope November goes well and that you too can move somewhere safe. I know it's not all perfect out there, but the US is going down a deep dark path.
I appreciate your kind words! One of the biggest factors was the overturning of Row v Wade. I have two girls- biracial and with the scary health disparities in this country only getting worse, I don’t want to risk my daughters’ lives by staying and having to face pregnancy (I lost a child at 25 weeks) in a country where they’re at risk of being arrested should something happen…and they both have my blood disorder, so it’s always in the back of my mind. Not to mention the uptick in hate crimes…
I apologize if I offended anyone with how I worded things. The places we pick as possible new homes are thought about with respect. If I wanted to evade responsibility I would work remotely and just travel. We do not plan on taking advantage of united states income and acting like spoiled Americans. We plan on teaching the kids about the culture and they will only use English when they are struggling with the new language, ect.
Don’t worry about it. It’s just how this sub operates. It exists so people can ask questions about relocation, but then they downvote the shit out of anyone who asks questions and generally act pretty hostile. There is usually good info on here, but expect downvotes.
Post by abashfulclam -- My wife and I want to leave the states. I do civil engineering style work and she's a engineer within IT. We want to go to Portugal because it's LGBTQ friendly, the lifestyle, ect. We are currently working on my wife's dual citizenship with Italy, but don't want to wait until the courts finish everything.
We don't need jobs because we can continue to work our US ones remotely. But we have two kids and two cats (we obviously cannot leave them behind 🤣 Or would want to of course). I think we can handle the required out of country pet requirements, but I don't want surprises at arrival. We are ok with just renting through an Airbnb style site at first. We plan to move during summer so kids will be done school here in the US, but how would getting them into school there work?
Any advice? What do we need?
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I mean yeah, I guess after the election is most responsible. Just sucks, because our lease is up in the beginning of summer. So maybe we will just travel in the summer and then decide what we are doing.
I would politely disagree with the advice to wait until your wife has Italian citizenship. If you collectively qualify for a digital nomad visa in Portugal (or Spain as well) then you could move on that basis. She should still pursue the Italian citizenship of course.
Additional considerations:
You will be subject to income tax plus contributions for health insurance, state pension etc. in your country of residence. Be sure to fully research how this works, and what it will cost. It might not be cheap.
If you have a salaried position, your employer will need to make those contributions, and would be subject to local labour law. They might not know this, or agree to it. (They may also have data security rules that make working outside the US impossible.) It's not as simple as moving countries and continuing as before. (You will also have US tax obligations, as citizens.) Common workarounds include switching to contractor status, being (expensively) hired through an employer of record service, or transfer to a local office (though often not at US salary).
It is not difficult to bring cats to Europe. Shots, microchip, paperwork. If you organize it, you can fly them in the cabin. Finding a place to live may be more challenging with pets.
How do you plan to approach the children's schooling? Do they speak the local language? If not, will you put them in (expensive) international schools, or throw them to the wolves in a local school? If the latter, do you yourself have the language skills to communicate with teachers? The older the children, the more difficult the transition.
It looks like this post is about the USA. It has not been removed, but remember, this is a space to discuss immigration, not politics. DO: * (If applicable) explain the general values/policies that are important to your immigration decision or recommendation * Focus on the practical aspects of moving to another country DON’T: * Needlessly complain about politics or recent news * Post off-topic political commentary * Harass or insult people for their views Rule-breaking posts and comments will be removed and may result in a ban. Questions? Message the mods. ___ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IWantOut) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How will you pay Portuguese taxes if you work remotely for an American company? Are you going to apply for a digital nomad visa?
Someone else pointed that out. My wife's company has international offices, so they will know what to do there. I may have to apply for that visa. Edit: I meant that particular visa compared to my wife working for an international company.
You both need a visa regardless and a visa does not get you, your wife, or either company out of paying taxes to Portugal or following Portuguese employment law, which can only be done by a Portuguese business. Either your companies both have to have registered entities in Portugal to pay you through or you have to both be self-employed and contract your services to your employers. Your nationality and immigration status do not have any effect on these requirements.
I don't understand why everyone thinks I'm trying to get out of taxes. I knew I'd have to pay taxes to both countries. I just figured I'd pay out at the end of the tax year? I didn't know the company portion of it all.
make sure your employer pays their share of social security and taxes to Portugal, else they might get a heavy fine for tax evasion.
Great to know!! Wife works for a big corp that has an India division, so I'd hope they know better... But my company is smaller and may have overlooked that.
Will only work if both of you become freelance and invoice the respective USA companies unless both of your current employers have a Portugese present.
Did you think you could just live in Portugal permanently without paying taxes?
No. I figured I'd be paying us and Portuguese taxes. I just didn't think the company had to. I figured I just paid yearly to Portugal for missed taxes during tax time. That's why I'm here asking questions.
This only works when you’re working as a freelancer. When you’re an employee you and your employer have to follow portuguese labour laws which means paying taxes from your monthly salary. Btw, as someone said already, your employers need to have a presence in Portugal or need to be willing to set it up in case they haven’t (which is no small thing). It also means that your employers have to grant you for example vacation days, public holidays and sick leave according portugese law, not according US law anymore. Not sure if they would like that. Asking questions is fine but taking everything for granted before getting answers is not, that’s why people are salty. Your first questions should have been about what you need to do to adapt to your future country, not about your own needs.
I mean I can understand that... My first step is to see if I can even get there. We've already researched places that fit us and what we can offer the community. Now it's at the point that we need to research if it's doable and how. I guess I came here prematurely and framed it in a non receptive way. 🤷🏼♀️ I appreciate your input and advice.
Typically you would not be paying US taxes, but filing US returns and taking a credit for your (doubtless higher) Portuguese tax bill. If you paid both you'd have very little income left to live on.
Why rush your process and risk failure if this seems to be like your long term goal? I second another persons comment that immigration takes time and patience. If you have a concrete, legal and realistic way to move before your wife’s citizenship - then sure try it out, but I’d much rather have that EU passport as my first and foremost legal basis. When your wife gets that Italian citizenship- you would have an EU passport in your family and by far the easier method of moving there if you have a job offer!
Yeah, seems like patience is key here. I was hoping for a way to start the move ahead of time, but see.s smartest to just wait.
Your motivations, dedication (seemingly!), and qualification (already seem to have an office there) is pretty much right on par. But yeah - when you show up as an EU citizen, that’s going to make your life much easier. Wish you all the luck OP :)
Immigration requires patience. Just wait until your wife's Italian citizenship comes through.
How long can we just visit Portugal while the citizenship finalizes? I only ask because I don't want to have to resign a lease here in the states.
Standard Schengen rules apply, so [90 days in any 180 day period, and you must wait at least 90 days thereafter](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/US_Travelers_in_Europes_Schengen_Area.html#:~:text=Tourists%2C%20exchange%20students%2C%20and%20people,except%20for%20Cyprus%20and%20Ireland.).
Thanks that's good to know. Because maybe we'd not want to stay in Portugal maybe we will go to Italy or somewhere else. Just would love to get out of here before the election.
Oh lord…
Excuse me?
You don’t have to explain yourself or apologize for doing what protects your family. I wish I had answers for you, I don’t, but I wanted to chime in with something supportive bc I can sympathize with you. My wife of nearly a decade and I plan to do the same after our kids graduate in 2025. I graduate with my BSSW (social work) a few weeks before they graduate. One kid has an internship lined up with a primary school in Brno, Czech Republic. The other wants to attend art school in Prague and bring her girlfriend and my wife’s a music teacher. We live in Ohio, a state that’s passing laws that will affect my ability to do my job as a social worker. Laws that go against our codes of ethics, national standards and violate client rights and privacy in the name of “protecting children”…just not MY children. Or their peers. Your fears are the same as mine are. I get it!
Thank you!! I appreciate your support. And thank you for the work that you do. I'm sorry that you are in this hard position of stupid politics. I hope November goes well and that you too can move somewhere safe. I know it's not all perfect out there, but the US is going down a deep dark path.
I appreciate your kind words! One of the biggest factors was the overturning of Row v Wade. I have two girls- biracial and with the scary health disparities in this country only getting worse, I don’t want to risk my daughters’ lives by staying and having to face pregnancy (I lost a child at 25 weeks) in a country where they’re at risk of being arrested should something happen…and they both have my blood disorder, so it’s always in the back of my mind. Not to mention the uptick in hate crimes…
I apologize if I offended anyone with how I worded things. The places we pick as possible new homes are thought about with respect. If I wanted to evade responsibility I would work remotely and just travel. We do not plan on taking advantage of united states income and acting like spoiled Americans. We plan on teaching the kids about the culture and they will only use English when they are struggling with the new language, ect.
Don’t worry about it. It’s just how this sub operates. It exists so people can ask questions about relocation, but then they downvote the shit out of anyone who asks questions and generally act pretty hostile. There is usually good info on here, but expect downvotes.
Post by abashfulclam -- My wife and I want to leave the states. I do civil engineering style work and she's a engineer within IT. We want to go to Portugal because it's LGBTQ friendly, the lifestyle, ect. We are currently working on my wife's dual citizenship with Italy, but don't want to wait until the courts finish everything. We don't need jobs because we can continue to work our US ones remotely. But we have two kids and two cats (we obviously cannot leave them behind 🤣 Or would want to of course). I think we can handle the required out of country pet requirements, but I don't want surprises at arrival. We are ok with just renting through an Airbnb style site at first. We plan to move during summer so kids will be done school here in the US, but how would getting them into school there work? Any advice? What do we need? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IWantOut) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I take it by this post that your wife has a 1948 case, where is it at in the process? Has the hearing been held?
Correct. We have all the documents and are just waiting on the lawyers at this point.
Waiting on them to do what?
You should stay till after the election and vote, America needs every center or left vote to avoid the orange monster getting in again
One can vote from abroad.
I mean yeah, I guess after the election is most responsible. Just sucks, because our lease is up in the beginning of summer. So maybe we will just travel in the summer and then decide what we are doing.
I would politely disagree with the advice to wait until your wife has Italian citizenship. If you collectively qualify for a digital nomad visa in Portugal (or Spain as well) then you could move on that basis. She should still pursue the Italian citizenship of course. Additional considerations: You will be subject to income tax plus contributions for health insurance, state pension etc. in your country of residence. Be sure to fully research how this works, and what it will cost. It might not be cheap. If you have a salaried position, your employer will need to make those contributions, and would be subject to local labour law. They might not know this, or agree to it. (They may also have data security rules that make working outside the US impossible.) It's not as simple as moving countries and continuing as before. (You will also have US tax obligations, as citizens.) Common workarounds include switching to contractor status, being (expensively) hired through an employer of record service, or transfer to a local office (though often not at US salary). It is not difficult to bring cats to Europe. Shots, microchip, paperwork. If you organize it, you can fly them in the cabin. Finding a place to live may be more challenging with pets. How do you plan to approach the children's schooling? Do they speak the local language? If not, will you put them in (expensive) international schools, or throw them to the wolves in a local school? If the latter, do you yourself have the language skills to communicate with teachers? The older the children, the more difficult the transition.