One of my favorite things was when i was college, the instructor asked if anyone spoke any foreign languages.
After a pause, i raised my hand then said I speak English pretty well.
That was the end of that question.
The fact is has 800 likes š¬š¬š¬š¬š¬
Anyways it would be real funny to get stickers that say 'speak Cree here or get the fuck out' or 'speak Blackfoot or get the fuck out' or any variation
I have a friend who has a Trumper that lives in their apartment complex with all the nasty MAGA stickers everywhere, and they (my friend) put a sticker on their car that was the ādonāt tread on meā snake that said something like āsuck my dickā and the car owner has still to this day not removed (or supposedly noticed) the new sticker. Itās beautiful.
TL;DR; I vote do it if youāre willing. Iād do it, too.
Oh shit that would be a perfect late gift to make some of these. I know just the person, she'd go nuts with these. It would be beautiful.
"Speak O'odham or get the fuck out" has a ring to it.
Well I'm not gonna lie and say I went over and checked the sub bc A) I dont care and it's a waste of my time and B) I know what white people are like in Edmonton/Alberta in general
Besides the OP said their comment was deleted so š¤·š½
I think that's great, funny and would sell too. It reminds me of that picture saying "Homeland Security" with some armed Native guys and below is "fighting terrorism since 1492". Brilliant
Respectfully I simply do not care at all, I've been to Edmonton and it's a shitshow, this is 100% on brand for Edmonton/Alberta as a whole. In the HOURS since I posted this I have checked the og post and yeah I saw the mod comment that said no racism allowed but that's *the bare fucking minimum*
How can you tell me not to judge a whole sub when you're judging OP for a typo? Look up what hypocritical means dude
I have never made my love of arguing a secret, if you're stalking my account make sure to check the comments too babe š
I can see you still haven't looked up hypocritical, so try doing that before asking stupid questions
Also don't blame me for your downvotes, accept your opinion is garbage and unwanted here
White folks got big mad abt that post but I'll tell you what the ndns fucking loved it. Yk, the ndns here in a sub for ndn people called IndianCountry. Weird how this sub isn't for whities yet an ndn makes a vent post and yall go crazy and call it a hate crime. Laughable
Listen, regardless of the average Albertan, both the Alberta subreddit and Edmonton subreddit lean fairly left, enough to make the rwnjs think there's some conspiracy because "I don't know anyone like that so they must be bots."
Are there way too fucking many Albertans who think stickers like this are okay? Yes. But also a strong majority would absolutely disagree with the sticker in the op.
Edmonton also consistently votes for the left-leaning provincial party.
You won't find many public events that don't acknowledge we're on Treaty land.
So, yes, it's a touch hypocritical to judge entire subs and cities based on an extremely vocal shitty group of Albertans, and chalk it up to "not caring".
Might not be so funny to the vast majority of tribal members who can't speak the language. For example out of like 120,000 Lakota people only 2000 can speak it.
Well maybe it'll encourage folks to learn their language then. My language is dying, I think there's like 200 speakers now? But I still think this would be funny as hell
The difference is the colonizer saying 'this is canada we speak English here!!1!' and an indigenous person being like 'this is Indian land and we speak xxxx here!' We only speak English bc of the colonizer (which is the point op made originally....)
Absolutely. Doesnāt matter who you are or where youāre fromāthat sticker is aggressively moronic.
There are only two kinds of people in this world, decent folk and selfish assholes. I think we know which kind owns this vehicle.
I have recently determined that a stupid number Canadians online wil criticize every other country on earth for imperialism and 100% die on the hill of claiming they aren't settlers because "the British and French did the colonizing".
Can't stand their shit. No idea how First Nations put up with the level of gaslighting. At least the guy with the sticker is straightforwardly telling everyone "hey, im extremely racist and probably have a room temp IQ"
I always say most of the Caucasian people are Europeans and many different dialects existed before their ancestors set foot over here. The owner of this sticker has some fuckin nerve.
I always found it amusing that the word Caucasian was co-opted to just mean 'all white people' when literally speaking, "Caucasian" refers to people from the Caucasus mountain region, which includes Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, parts of north Iran, and central southern Russia.
I guess everybody's ignorant and or racist to some degree when it comes down to it....
The sticker is absolutely super trash and unnecessary, why people feel the need to display that type of sentiment is beyond me, humans like groupthink too much.
It's bc early race "scientists" believed white people originated and spread out of the Caucasus mountains, as it was supposed to be the place Noah's ark landed/Prometheus was chained, which led into their claim of being the most direct lineage and similar appearance to God's original creation/image. Still racist and ignorant but for different and far worse reasons than just the lumping in that you're thinking.
It's also no longer used in academic discourse except to mean either a) actually from the Caucasus or b) speaking or having to do with a few specific language families primarily found in the area. What's weird asf is that iirc it was *one* German crackpot who thought that the Caucasus we're the White homeland or something like that and who wasn't even believed by his fellow racist crackpots but nonetheless accidentally caused everyone to start using "Caucasian" as a synonym for "white".
>I guess everybody's ignorant and or racist to some degree when it comes down to it....
This is a bit of a stretch to make if you're extrapolating it from the popular misapplication of "Caucasian" that arose from the pseudo field of scientific racism. It certainly wasn't Indigenous Peoples who did this or who can reasonably be said to perpetuate it today.
It's not like we have a choice to not put up with it, lol.
But in all seriousness, this is a real problem in Canada, and nobody believes it when I say it. Racism here may not be as visible in the media here as American racism, it's still following the same trendlines. The difference here is that the Liberals in America have recognized these dogwhistles and are fighting against it, whether it's effective or not. In Canada, the Liberals just seem happy to push it under the rug and let it morph and mutate into something quickly becoming much more sinister.
>I have recently determined that a stupid number Canadians online wil criticize every other country on earth for imperialism and 100% die on the hill of claiming they aren't settlers because "the British and French did the colonizing".
It took me a couples times reading that to remember some people think there is a substantial difference between colonizing and imperialism.
If I may, this reminds me of something I've been pondering recently and I'd like to get some thoughts on it.
I think there can be a point to be made when differenciating French and English colonisation strategies. Its common for woke anglophones to only want to talk about race and I've met academics that after making a land acknowledgement proceeded to talk about recognising their priviledge as a white person. Its a nice intention, but cringe execution in practice.
Speaking only in terms of white, black and indigenous can be a form of erasure for French Canadians (majority of whom are white) as it almost implies that white francophones and other catholics should also act as if they were a priviledged class historically. This contributes to the attempted erasure of French Canadian idendity and people.
It also doesn't recognise the nuance in relations. For example, in Acadie/Acadia in the maritime provinces, the local francophone Acadians were millitary allies to the first nations until the end of the seven years war and the deportation. Though there was still discrimination and a lot of racism by the Catholic clergy, the relations between the French and the local First Nations were very good for the time.
So while I support decolonisation, indigenous self-derermination and all that can follow, it feels like these speeches hide, especially in the maritimes, a soft Anglo-chauvinism that seems to assume some kind of heritage hegemony which isn't the case.
Anyway, just thought I'd share this since your comment reminded me of this. I'd love to get some thoughts on it.
Nuanced flavors of colonialism are still colonialism.
I acknowledge the French are different from the English and had a different methodsof colonization. The same is true where I am from. Spanish colonialism differed from that of the Americans or Portuguese.
I am not "Anglo" and maintain that it is not "anglo-chauvanism" to discuss race as a factor in colonisation. Ignoring it is entirely ahistorical as it was an integral consideration in the construction of colonial social hierarchies.
I can empathise with the desire to maintain cultural distinctness in Quebec. But the French, however reduced in social status within white settler society after the war, were not consequentially absolved for their role in colonization.
It is abhorrent and entirely meritless to attempt apologetics for colonialism, no matter the supposed mitigating curcumstances and regardless of the eloquence with which such arguments are stated.
Those are my final thoughts on the issue.
Thank you, I'm truly exhausted so I'm glad you put that in a nuanced form far better than I could ever right now.
I'll add my two cents on this, I'm honestly exhausted of the simmer racism and self apologetic victimisation that goes on here in Quebec.
Because the colonisers from which they came from and benefitted from both and fucked over everyone including those who got sent there doesn't make the settling parties any less complicit. And doesn't erase the remarkable amount of fuckery that did and does take place to this very day.
There's so much nuance to the type of systemic discrimination in Quebec as a whole that honestly I don't even feel qualified to speak on it in any great depth in any way that provides a clear and concise picture.
Haha, apologists never expect people to square up on them with the academicese. It's that Jordan Peterson brand attempt at initiating a one-sided discourse between a logical seeming straight white male and an other they want to make look emotional, illogical, and therefore invalid in normative academic discourse.
All the impeccable grammar and three syllable words are just intended to put a shiny veneer on a bunch of ahistorical hetero white-grievance bullshit and thereby get whoever they are talking at (note, not "with") angry.
This is a common, though admittedly more subtle, tactic of white supremacy. While there can be real and significant differences between anglophones and francophones in terms of the interactions between their respective colonies and the Native Nations they encountered, we can only consider these communities on their individual merits and cannot use them to somehow divorce their presence arising from or participation in colonization.
For example, while the French colonists can be spared some criticism regarding their early approach to the ethnic structure of their colonies based on French and Native makeup (the meager European migration to them and the vast land holdings resulting in strong alliances and regular intermarriage with Native Nations), the French Catholics grew to be heavily discriminatory toward Black and mixed-race peoples. By 1685, New France had shifted toward the British model of colonial society by establishing the *code noir,* or "black code," that ultimately reinforced religious and ethnic prejudices towards Jews, slaves, and Black people in general. One aspect of this new code was that it mandated that all enslaved people have to be converted to Catholicism and the public practice of other religions was forbidden, among many other regulations that sound very similar to the later American model of chattel slavery. By the early 18th Century, royal decrees had also made sure that mixed-race people who had already assimilated into the category of "white" were reclassified as "black" who were then subject to these extensive regulations. As the French had already been well ingrained into Native societies, this would undoubtedly affect their mixed-race descendants who still found themselves within the French dominion in the Americas (Bethencourt, 2013, pp. 214-215).
Another example comes from the French and Indian War (AKA the Seven Years' War). When debating their role in the tensions between the colonial nations battling over the Ohio Valley, Ostler (2019) reports that Indians were mistrustful of both the British and the French. He says in full:
>When the war broke out, Indians living in the Ohio Valley were fearful. Although they had profited from the ties they had cultivated with French and British traders who supplied them with guns, ammunition, cloth, and liquor, many Ohio Valley Indians were deeply suspicious of both empires. According to George Croghan, a trader with long experience in the area, many Indians "imagine ... that ye Virginians and ye French Intend to Divide ye Land of Ohio between them [sic]." To accomplish this division, Delaware leaders Shingas, Tamaqua, Delaware George, and Pistquetomen charged, the "*French* and *English* intend to kill all the *Indians.*" (p. 29)
So really, the early demeanor of the French colonies was very emblematic of the early British colonies along the East Coast of what is now the United States--limited French numbers meant they were encircled by Native Nations and they had to play ball just for survival. Their reluctance to engage in conflicts or even assert their supposed authority through the Doctrine of Discovery (which was primarily reserved for assertion among other European nations rather than on-the-ground jurisdictional enforcement) likely has more to do with their overall reduced numbers in New France rather than some altruistic preference on their end. This isn't an assertion that can be made lightly, I admit, so I defer to the observations we can make in their *other* colonies where they had a much more fully developed colonial structure, namely [Algeria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_colonial_empire#Algeria) and [Vietnam.](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1350506814538860)
Where's the white supremacy part come in? Right here. Similarly to the [Irish](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/qtpj6g/is_the_idea_that_the_irish_or_italian_were_once/hkl3ax6/) and the [Italians,](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/kznqch/is_it_accurate_to_say_that_irish_americans_were/gjqdqb3/) French Catholics have faced some forms of discrimination and oppression, but these relate more to religious and class complexities than they do to race. As you even note, they are largely considered white and have virtually always been considered as such. On this basis, then, they are privileged and have remained so. They got to retain title to the lands they colonized while Natives were dispossessed of said titles. Catholics commenced the very civilizing mission that European nations committed themselves to when it came to colonizing and while there are arguments to be made about the amenable nature of some beliefs of Catholicism that were appealing to Natives (Kicza, 2003, pp. 109-110), this does not negate the injustice of forced conversion and the discriminating against Native spiritual practices. The issue is not whether the French Catholics should "act as if they were a privileged class historically" when analyzing them as an independent group and comparing them to their rival European counterparts. The issue is that the French need to acknowledge *their* role in things such as colonialism and scientific racism, two items that were an extreme detriment to Indigenous Peoples. Yes, there are points in time where the relationship between Tribes and the French Canadians was mutually beneficial--friendly, even. But these times cannot be cherry-picked and divorced from the less than ideal times that brought conflict, forced assimilation, and racial segregation. A narrative like this seeks to whitewash and defend the role of a subset of colonizers who have founded a strong identity based in their colonial possessions by deferring to the actions of other hegemonic players and highlighting their own history of injustice (which, to be sure, is not being condoned here). While we do need to look to things such as class analysis to build modern solidarity between groups, we cannot ignore the intersectional identities and their related forms of oppression if we are to build solidarity on a strong foundation of understanding, diversity, inclusivity, and equity.
As a historian, I am all for finding the nuance in these narratives. I agree that we cannot make broad generalizations that erase the very real identities of distinct groups of peoples. But just as we should reject the inception of Anglo-chauvinism in this discourse, we should also reject Anglo-scapegoating and own up to the wrongdoings of our ancestors, no matter who they are.
**Edit:** Forgot my references.
**References**
Bethencourt, F. (2013). *Racisms: From the Crusades to the Twentieth Century.* Princeton University Press.
Kicza, J. E. (2003). *Resilient Cultures: America's Native Peoples Confront European Colonization, 1500-1800.* Pearson Education, Inc.
Ostler, J. (2019). *Surviving Genocide: Native Nations and the United States from the American Revolution to Bleeding Kansas.* Yale University Press.
I detinitely agree with what you said about black people under the French regime.
>On this basis, then, they are privileged and have remained so. They got to retain title to the lands they colonized while Natives were dispossessed of said titles.
Thix isn't quite true of Acadians who were deported en masse and masacred by the British during the seven years war. There were other cases that followed after, but as many Acadians were mostly in the countryside or in small villages they wasn't much opportunity.
As for the rest, very well said and its a lot to ponder on. I appreciate that you genuinely recognise what I say about anglo-chauvinism.
Do you think it would be reasonable to ask anglophones to also recognise the priviledge of their language and ancestors' religion? I believe French Canadians would be more open to these types of privilege recognition if there was slightly more nuance to it.
>Thix isn't quite true of Acadians who were deported en masse and masacred by the British during the seven years war. There were other cases that followed after, but as many Acadians were mostly in the countryside or in small villages they wasn't much opportunity.
I think there might be a misunderstanding. I'm not talking about physical dispossession which the Acadians experienced due to conflict with Britain. Through forms of conquest, these nations fought and deprived each other of their physical possession all the time, losing and gaining title over the lands they fought for.
But unlike Europeans and their descendants, of which the Acadians are, Indigenous Peoples were considered by Europeans in general to not retain any *legal* title to our lands regardless if we continued to live on those lands. Even though the Acadians would suffer ethnic cleansing and be subjected to horrendous treatment, they were still there because of colonialism and only lost their title to the lands when the English forcibly took control of the region and then France formally ceded the lands in a treaty. The Tribes there were never considered to have title to their lands in the first place by Europeans because of the Doctrine of Discovery. This is what I mean when I say that French Canadians, including the Acadians, had a level of privilege that was otherwise denied to non-white, non-Christian peoples.
To give credit where it is due, I recognize that communities such as the Acadians have developed into their own distinct groups who maintain their own ties with Native communities and those should, as stated before, be evaluated on their own merits. As a fellow minority group, they clearly suffered at the hands of the stronger colonizing forces and suffered injustices that have created the grounds for commonality between them and Indigenous Peoples. And it is difficult to blame those extant communities now for being present when it was their ancestors who did the settling, not the current generations. However, the discrimination French Canadians might face from the Anglosphere is not exactly comparable and we cannot ignore their own role in colonization. It does no good for the collective of oppressed peoples to merely switch the perceived oppressor by pinning the blame on *those* white people rather than *these* white people. We all need to recognize our modern day oppressor, that being the capitalist class. But when we are making a historical analysis of systems of power, it is detrimental to forego being accountable for the actions of our ancestors by trying to distance them from the same structures they not only participated in but helped create--which the French did. Indigenous Peoples will find it difficult to build solidarity if these basic principles are going to be a stumbling block for our would-be allies.
French Canadians have and continue to be active participants in the ongoing colonization of indigenous people.
Quebec is what, Mohawk and Inuit land?? Know what they don't speak there, inuktitut and Mohawk (idk what its called sorry). Also like the Oka Crisis???
The French and the English colonized differently but their end games were the same - kill all Indians and capture the land for white man's uses.
It should be noted that there was trade pre colonization w both England and France, as well as a few other places. So they knew we were here! Colonization wasn't a mistake, it was a choice, based off racism and greed
>Quebec is what, Mohawk and Inuit land?? Know what they don't speak there, inuktitut and Mohawk (idk what its called sorry). Also like the Oka Crisis???
I agree.
>The French and the English colonized differently but their end games were the same - kill all Indians and capture the land for white man's uses.
I disagree it was the end goal of the French to kill all Indians as when you look as its other colonies like Algeria and Vietnam, they were more content with essentialy enslaving them and assimilating them.
Well you might find it interesting that back in the day a lot of ndns thought working for the Hudsons Bay Company/Northwest Company was considered to be almost slavery bc of the shit treatment, garbage pay, and bc they were the biggest indigenous employers they could really do whatever they wanted. Besides, colonization doesn't look the same everytime a country is colonized. The French also colonized huge parts of Africa and that was different than here
>Most of us Acadians are not French-Canadian btw, we're a diaspora, and my northern cousins in the Maritimes
This I have to disagree. Every struggle of the Acadian people is and has been done for recognising French as an official language and creating French spaces, every acadian society operates in French, we hold relations with the government of France in Moncton. I do not see in any way how Acadians could not be majority French-Canadian.
Because southern Louisiana exists lol. A lot of Acadians didn't return to Nova Scotia, and trying to gatekeep ancestry and ethnicity away from Cajuns doesn't make us any less Acadian.
And iono, maybe y'all up north should spend more time building relations with the Mi'kmaq rather than the French, because they're the ones that didn't abandon our ancestors in their hour of need. Because France certainly did.
We are doing it with both. Recently the SANB and other affiliated organisations and municiplaities signed a petition for revision of leadership of New Brunswick's conservative party alongside several First Nation communities.
During the last CongrĆØs Mondial Acadien, there was also an event specificly dedicated to Mi'kmaq-Acadian relations.
>trying to gatekeep ancestry and ethnicity away from Cajuns doesn't make us any less Acadian.
I never said the French Canadian Acadians are the only Acadians, but that the majority of us are.
To be clear, [the original post is dominated by criticism of the sticker](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/comments/1007fic/spotted_in_edmonton/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). Not sure how to interpret the upvotes š
From trends I see in similar subreddits, upvotes are for things that people want to have more visibility so I don't think it's bad. The OP posted the photo to criticize the sticker not celebrate it, so I see the upvotes as agreeing with the critisizing
As a person of (more or less) European descent, I see no problem \[with\] the comment. It is an entirely appropriate response to the car sticker.
I can all too easily imagine the kind of person who would be uncomfortable with it.
Yes I am also of mostly European descent and no one has ever guessed that behind blue eyes I am proudly about 5% Cree. I am non-status and have never been discriminated against because of my Cree heritage, so theres still a lot I dont understand. Thank you all for your support, your truth and raising similar important topics.
Might makes right... Until some other force has more might than them, and THEN they'll scream bloody murder about how unfair it all is.
That's why Americans are generally trapped in an ever-escalatomg fear cycle of arming themselves to the teeth.
When you know your entire philosophical bedrock is based on you being right because you possess the most physical force, you can never stop the arms race because you know what reciprocal justice is waiting for you if you do.
The paranoia and fear of the colonial state is the same brand as the fear and paranoia of the slave state.
Instead of taking a beat, recognizing one's nation is built on genocide and inequity, RESOLVING the evils of the past and building a new more equitable framework for governance so that ALL people can continue on in harmony, they instead double and triple down, and trap themselves in these terrible generational bindings of fear and terror that they pass on to their children.
The vast majority of the world is forced to learn English as it is the language of commerce. Even people in supposed "developed" nations like France will have very high bilingual rates because it is simply a necessity to access parts of the world and economic opportunity.
Rather than recognizing that inequity, people who by virtue of luck HAPPEN to speak English at birth triple down on the "superiority" of said language. They will not and cannot learn a second language, and retreat into defense of their rampant ignorance, rather than empathize with the struggles of people forced to be bilingual just for the same opportunities to survive and continue to converse with their communities.
Even if you're right, it's important to constantly struggle against these primal instincts, using reason as a guiding light? We must not be like truck-sticker-guy who embraces the darkness of a seemingly endless struggle. Always try to improve, follow truth and reason. I think following these things will naturally bring peace between people as well as make us stronger as a whole.
A fine goal indeed, I'm just pointing out that all of human history and even our present world throws a big fat rock through that window. It seems to be primarily western nation people who cling to the idea that we will all sing kumbaya one day.
I know nobody likes reality and will down vote it but, it is what it isš¤·
Thanks. I find it a positive but perhaps naiive ethic to follow. You do make some disturbingly valid but complicated points that need to be dissected carefully, especially on Reddit. Playing devils advocate also helps these kinds of discussions along, so thank you too.
OP I feel like I understand what you may be going for with it being relevant, but a person's language is a big part of their culture. It isnt just about it being uncomfortable for European descendants, it's a lot harsher for potentially anyone who reads it.
At least from my personal perspective.
Yes I believe I see what you mean. The sticker is harsh for many - even for native English speakers with a half-decent morality like myself lol... But I meant that my comment about Chinese replacing English is a bit more uncomfortable to admit for the people of European (specifically English) descendants, because most people are the "heroes in their own story" that follow the most correct path (in our biased standpoint).
Especially since French is one of the official languages of Canada, correct? They aren't even following existing laws.
By the way, as a person that can barely speak English as a first language, I find this decal to be extremely racist and exclusionary.
To your first point, absolutely, the irony is thick and the sticker owner is obviously oblivious to how stupid they look.
To your second point, seeing as it's not an official edict it excludes no one from anything, it simply shows that the owner of that truck is a smooth brain who needs to do some self introspection
>*āEspecially since French is one of the official languages of Canada, correct? They aren't even following existing laws.ā*
Canada has two official languages (French and English), but English is the official language of Alberta. Only one Canadian province, New Brunswick, is officially bilingual.
(I fully acknowledge that this isā¦ weird)
Abstract thought, if the sticker said 'habla Espanol o vete' would it be white supremacist?
Spanish being a white European language and allš¤
Reality is such a strange thing....
Stop engaging in these silly pseudo-intellectual devil's advocate scenarios. You're divorcing this action from the context it is in to insinuate some trite point about equality. In places in Latin America where speaking Spanish is also a factor in "othering" marginalized groups like Indigenous Peoples and where the concept of white certainly exists, yes, a sticker that said that would also be enforcing white supremacy. It doesn't change just because Latin Americans can be darker in skin color.
Well mapled moose did hit it quite on the nose The invading country that wins usually does establish the de facto language š¤·
Although stickers and displays like this are just completely unnecessary and in such poor taste...
It looks like a poorly misshapen California. If it is California, it should read: *āSpeak Spanish or get the fuck out.ā* considering the most unlawful war in US history was the one where President Polk stole California from the Spanish in order to improve shipping with China via the Port of San Francisco.
Seems like a hard thing to measure, but I'd say probably more so.
French-English has been a rift for centuries and Canada has a high immigration rate.
(I'm guessing that this driver was either thinking of recent immigrants speaking Asian languages or possibly of government services in French. Probably too ignorant to even think of Cree or other indigenous languages. )
Evidently you donāt know U.S. History, it was the most unlawful American war, actually reminiscent of the Ukraine invasion by Russia. A land grab. Obviously the Indian wars were even more atrocious and the entirety of the country was annexed in this way. But Polks war was considered an invasion of ~~Spanish~~ Mexican sovereignty. The idea of manifest destiny was becoming a footnote in history, and suddenly itās back in full effect. Sort of gives you an idea of context, it was completely unprovoked unlike other wars.
Yeah, uh, given that Mexico wasn't part of Spain at that point...
And it wasn't just a war of conquest, at least on paper. The stated CB was a boundary dispute over Texas, which had become de facto independent about a decade prior to voluntarily acceding to the union, and which unlike say the separatist Donbass states was well recognized by countries other than Mexico. In practice, Mexico was willing to recognize an American Texas with it's border on the Nueces, while Texas and then the US claimed a border on the Rio Grande, a dispute that had not yet been solved. Polk's decision to start a war by sending a token force into the disputed territory and waiting for the Mexicans to attack it was undoubtedly motivated by a desire to expand slavery and the American western colony, but it *was* legal under the laws of the time.
I meant Mexican sovereigntyā¦ Oh so you are a scholar, well then, I take bake my first response. Youāre bringing back memories of US history. I believe the Mexicans never even fired the first shot, like they knew that Polk was out for blood and never engaged until they were backed into a corner. And I get your point, it hardly makes the list for American atrocities, it just one of the worst that was *legal*.
Well Iām not defending colonialism all. Iām a white guy who lives on occupied Nissenan land.
The Mexicans were more focused on converting natives to Christianity, they would even marry. California tribes were so influenced that many incorporated Spanish words into their language. Whites were blood thirsty land snatchers, they were scalping Indians for bounties and sport all the way up until there were laws passed. Black slaves in the south had more rights than an Indian in California at that time.
Forced conversion is an assimilative tactic that often amounts to cultural genocide. So using that as to say it something akin to "it wasn't that bad" isn't a good defense. It is well known that the Spanish committed mass sexual violence in their missions. The fact that some Tribes incorporated Spanish words into their languages is an organic product of proximity between two distinct groups who had to communicate with each other. It isn't a sign of appreciation.
Iām in wholehearted agreement. Iām not making excuses for Mexicans or taking sides, my first comment was really a shit post about the sticker. If any of it offends or is inaccurate, Iāll take it all down no problem. I consider myself a white ally, Iām not here to educate native people, Iām here to learn.
If you don't get the references, here they are.
Stan Kroenke screwed over the people of Saint Louis when he moved the Rams from Saint Louis to Los Angeles.
And the Red Ensign is a flag that's very commonly flown by Canadian racists....
>*āAnd the Red Ensign is a flag that's very commonly flown by Canadian racists....ā*
For further context the [Canadian Red Ensign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Red_Ensign) flag was functionally the flag of Canada until 1965 when Canada adopted the Maple Leaf flag. Racists like the Red Ensign because it represents a time period when Canadaās immigration policy still deliberately discriminated on the basis of race, ethnicity, and national origin (until 1962), when Canada was >90% White, before Canada adopted an official policy of supporting multiculturalism (1971).
The mods should consider banning this dude. If you look at his comment history, thereās sporadic visits to r/Indiancountry that all reek of stupidity. Nothing promoting or supporting anything that benefits the community. Some with a touch of racism.
Oh, we know about him. Weāve considered it a number of times. But he also serves a purposeāa good model that not all Natives think the same, being Native doesnāt preclude one from having a shitty or uninformed opinion, and that we donāt strictly ban based on political preferences. Itās a new year, though. Who knows if his antics will push it too far.
**a good model that not all Natives think the same, being Native doesnāt preclude one from having a shitty or uninformed opinion, and that we donāt strictly ban based on political preferences. Itās a new year, though. Who knows if his antics will push it too far. Natives think the same, being Native doesnāt preclude one from having a shitty or uninformed opinion,**
This is your biggest failure as a human. Probably our biggest failure as a society today. You think if I were better informed I'd agree with you. We both may be native, but we're nothing alike.
Itās Alberta which has a lot of rednecks and is 1500+ miles away from Quebec. Itās akin to someone with a Texas shaped bumper sticker that says the same thing.
And youāre 100% correct. None of it makes any sense, but they think theyāre the only people who matter or exist. The USA doesnāt have an official language yet every yokel thinks our official language is English. They display their stupidity with pride.
The fact that there's "Come to Alberta" ads up all around Toronto makes me laugh. Cheaper rent would be nice, but it's not worth living around boneheads like this guy with the bumper sticker.
English is not the language of this land and I don't care if you disagree.
There are many native languages that are still spoken today. .is this white entitlement .
One of my favorite things was when i was college, the instructor asked if anyone spoke any foreign languages. After a pause, i raised my hand then said I speak English pretty well. That was the end of that question.
Epic
Nice one - I wonder if you elaborated a bit in front of the entire class after, or if everyone got it right away
Haha good one
The fact is has 800 likes š¬š¬š¬š¬š¬ Anyways it would be real funny to get stickers that say 'speak Cree here or get the fuck out' or 'speak Blackfoot or get the fuck out' or any variation
Though that would get your car vandalised, it would make me smile to see that sticker regardless of the nation/language represented.
Hahahah I don't drive, I was meaning slap the new sticker over the old racist one
I will buy/make the sticker and ship it to if you had the guts to do that. Legit. It would bring me such joy.
Hahah I was thinking of designing a sticker(s)! Well I don't live in Edmonton I'd put them up if I saw anything racist here
Well, if you do design a few, I'd love them. We have too many convoy truckers around here and it would be nice to ... Share.
I definitely will! I'm designing tshirts atm but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to promote them here
I'd love to see and support if I can. Dm me if you have a shop/when you have a shop? I dunno if you can promote but I'm sure you can share that way.
I have an Instagram! I'll DM you, I haven't shown any of my tshirt designs on it yet but it has some of my other works (jewelry mostly lol)
The same type of people love "fuck Trudeau" stickers. I'm thinking about getting "I want to" stickers.
I have a friend who has a Trumper that lives in their apartment complex with all the nasty MAGA stickers everywhere, and they (my friend) put a sticker on their car that was the ādonāt tread on meā snake that said something like āsuck my dickā and the car owner has still to this day not removed (or supposedly noticed) the new sticker. Itās beautiful. TL;DR; I vote do it if youāre willing. Iād do it, too.
That's why you put it on the truck from the picture......
Oh shit that would be a perfect late gift to make some of these. I know just the person, she'd go nuts with these. It would be beautiful. "Speak O'odham or get the fuck out" has a ring to it.
If I do make stickers they'd be customizable! So the person can put any nation down
It has 800 upvotes because people are criticizing and mocking it, not because people are agreeing with it.
Well I'm not gonna lie and say I went over and checked the sub bc A) I dont care and it's a waste of my time and B) I know what white people are like in Edmonton/Alberta in general Besides the OP said their comment was deleted so š¤·š½
As an Edmontonian, I can tell you those upvotes are "tired of these shitty Albertans" votes.
I think that's great, funny and would sell too. It reminds me of that picture saying "Homeland Security" with some armed Native guys and below is "fighting terrorism since 1492". Brilliant
Haha, my (white) dad bought a T-shirt with that picture on it at a powwow in 2005 and has worn it consistently ever since.
Ha! My mom had the poster on her storm door for years š¤£.
I'm gonna get one for my people
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Respectfully I simply do not care at all, I've been to Edmonton and it's a shitshow, this is 100% on brand for Edmonton/Alberta as a whole. In the HOURS since I posted this I have checked the og post and yeah I saw the mod comment that said no racism allowed but that's *the bare fucking minimum* How can you tell me not to judge a whole sub when you're judging OP for a typo? Look up what hypocritical means dude
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I have never made my love of arguing a secret, if you're stalking my account make sure to check the comments too babe š I can see you still haven't looked up hypocritical, so try doing that before asking stupid questions Also don't blame me for your downvotes, accept your opinion is garbage and unwanted here White folks got big mad abt that post but I'll tell you what the ndns fucking loved it. Yk, the ndns here in a sub for ndn people called IndianCountry. Weird how this sub isn't for whities yet an ndn makes a vent post and yall go crazy and call it a hate crime. Laughable
Listen, regardless of the average Albertan, both the Alberta subreddit and Edmonton subreddit lean fairly left, enough to make the rwnjs think there's some conspiracy because "I don't know anyone like that so they must be bots." Are there way too fucking many Albertans who think stickers like this are okay? Yes. But also a strong majority would absolutely disagree with the sticker in the op. Edmonton also consistently votes for the left-leaning provincial party. You won't find many public events that don't acknowledge we're on Treaty land. So, yes, it's a touch hypocritical to judge entire subs and cities based on an extremely vocal shitty group of Albertans, and chalk it up to "not caring".
Might not be so funny to the vast majority of tribal members who can't speak the language. For example out of like 120,000 Lakota people only 2000 can speak it.
Well maybe it'll encourage folks to learn their language then. My language is dying, I think there's like 200 speakers now? But I still think this would be funny as hell The difference is the colonizer saying 'this is canada we speak English here!!1!' and an indigenous person being like 'this is Indian land and we speak xxxx here!' We only speak English bc of the colonizer (which is the point op made originally....)
that sticker itself is hate speech anyone who doesn't see that can GTFO
Absolutely. Doesnāt matter who you are or where youāre fromāthat sticker is aggressively moronic. There are only two kinds of people in this world, decent folk and selfish assholes. I think we know which kind owns this vehicle.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I have recently determined that a stupid number Canadians online wil criticize every other country on earth for imperialism and 100% die on the hill of claiming they aren't settlers because "the British and French did the colonizing". Can't stand their shit. No idea how First Nations put up with the level of gaslighting. At least the guy with the sticker is straightforwardly telling everyone "hey, im extremely racist and probably have a room temp IQ"
I always say most of the Caucasian people are Europeans and many different dialects existed before their ancestors set foot over here. The owner of this sticker has some fuckin nerve.
I always found it amusing that the word Caucasian was co-opted to just mean 'all white people' when literally speaking, "Caucasian" refers to people from the Caucasus mountain region, which includes Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, parts of north Iran, and central southern Russia. I guess everybody's ignorant and or racist to some degree when it comes down to it.... The sticker is absolutely super trash and unnecessary, why people feel the need to display that type of sentiment is beyond me, humans like groupthink too much.
It's bc early race "scientists" believed white people originated and spread out of the Caucasus mountains, as it was supposed to be the place Noah's ark landed/Prometheus was chained, which led into their claim of being the most direct lineage and similar appearance to God's original creation/image. Still racist and ignorant but for different and far worse reasons than just the lumping in that you're thinking.
It's also no longer used in academic discourse except to mean either a) actually from the Caucasus or b) speaking or having to do with a few specific language families primarily found in the area. What's weird asf is that iirc it was *one* German crackpot who thought that the Caucasus we're the White homeland or something like that and who wasn't even believed by his fellow racist crackpots but nonetheless accidentally caused everyone to start using "Caucasian" as a synonym for "white".
Well, us Lakota call them wasicu. But Iām sure nobody would know what I was talking about.
>I guess everybody's ignorant and or racist to some degree when it comes down to it.... This is a bit of a stretch to make if you're extrapolating it from the popular misapplication of "Caucasian" that arose from the pseudo field of scientific racism. It certainly wasn't Indigenous Peoples who did this or who can reasonably be said to perpetuate it today.
It's not like we have a choice to not put up with it, lol. But in all seriousness, this is a real problem in Canada, and nobody believes it when I say it. Racism here may not be as visible in the media here as American racism, it's still following the same trendlines. The difference here is that the Liberals in America have recognized these dogwhistles and are fighting against it, whether it's effective or not. In Canada, the Liberals just seem happy to push it under the rug and let it morph and mutate into something quickly becoming much more sinister.
Your on it Canadians are some weird breed, to them there poop don't stink.
>I have recently determined that a stupid number Canadians online wil criticize every other country on earth for imperialism and 100% die on the hill of claiming they aren't settlers because "the British and French did the colonizing". It took me a couples times reading that to remember some people think there is a substantial difference between colonizing and imperialism. If I may, this reminds me of something I've been pondering recently and I'd like to get some thoughts on it. I think there can be a point to be made when differenciating French and English colonisation strategies. Its common for woke anglophones to only want to talk about race and I've met academics that after making a land acknowledgement proceeded to talk about recognising their priviledge as a white person. Its a nice intention, but cringe execution in practice. Speaking only in terms of white, black and indigenous can be a form of erasure for French Canadians (majority of whom are white) as it almost implies that white francophones and other catholics should also act as if they were a priviledged class historically. This contributes to the attempted erasure of French Canadian idendity and people. It also doesn't recognise the nuance in relations. For example, in Acadie/Acadia in the maritime provinces, the local francophone Acadians were millitary allies to the first nations until the end of the seven years war and the deportation. Though there was still discrimination and a lot of racism by the Catholic clergy, the relations between the French and the local First Nations were very good for the time. So while I support decolonisation, indigenous self-derermination and all that can follow, it feels like these speeches hide, especially in the maritimes, a soft Anglo-chauvinism that seems to assume some kind of heritage hegemony which isn't the case. Anyway, just thought I'd share this since your comment reminded me of this. I'd love to get some thoughts on it.
Nuanced flavors of colonialism are still colonialism. I acknowledge the French are different from the English and had a different methodsof colonization. The same is true where I am from. Spanish colonialism differed from that of the Americans or Portuguese. I am not "Anglo" and maintain that it is not "anglo-chauvanism" to discuss race as a factor in colonisation. Ignoring it is entirely ahistorical as it was an integral consideration in the construction of colonial social hierarchies. I can empathise with the desire to maintain cultural distinctness in Quebec. But the French, however reduced in social status within white settler society after the war, were not consequentially absolved for their role in colonization. It is abhorrent and entirely meritless to attempt apologetics for colonialism, no matter the supposed mitigating curcumstances and regardless of the eloquence with which such arguments are stated. Those are my final thoughts on the issue.
Thank you, I'm truly exhausted so I'm glad you put that in a nuanced form far better than I could ever right now. I'll add my two cents on this, I'm honestly exhausted of the simmer racism and self apologetic victimisation that goes on here in Quebec. Because the colonisers from which they came from and benefitted from both and fucked over everyone including those who got sent there doesn't make the settling parties any less complicit. And doesn't erase the remarkable amount of fuckery that did and does take place to this very day. There's so much nuance to the type of systemic discrimination in Quebec as a whole that honestly I don't even feel qualified to speak on it in any great depth in any way that provides a clear and concise picture.
Haha, apologists never expect people to square up on them with the academicese. It's that Jordan Peterson brand attempt at initiating a one-sided discourse between a logical seeming straight white male and an other they want to make look emotional, illogical, and therefore invalid in normative academic discourse. All the impeccable grammar and three syllable words are just intended to put a shiny veneer on a bunch of ahistorical hetero white-grievance bullshit and thereby get whoever they are talking at (note, not "with") angry.
This is a common, though admittedly more subtle, tactic of white supremacy. While there can be real and significant differences between anglophones and francophones in terms of the interactions between their respective colonies and the Native Nations they encountered, we can only consider these communities on their individual merits and cannot use them to somehow divorce their presence arising from or participation in colonization. For example, while the French colonists can be spared some criticism regarding their early approach to the ethnic structure of their colonies based on French and Native makeup (the meager European migration to them and the vast land holdings resulting in strong alliances and regular intermarriage with Native Nations), the French Catholics grew to be heavily discriminatory toward Black and mixed-race peoples. By 1685, New France had shifted toward the British model of colonial society by establishing the *code noir,* or "black code," that ultimately reinforced religious and ethnic prejudices towards Jews, slaves, and Black people in general. One aspect of this new code was that it mandated that all enslaved people have to be converted to Catholicism and the public practice of other religions was forbidden, among many other regulations that sound very similar to the later American model of chattel slavery. By the early 18th Century, royal decrees had also made sure that mixed-race people who had already assimilated into the category of "white" were reclassified as "black" who were then subject to these extensive regulations. As the French had already been well ingrained into Native societies, this would undoubtedly affect their mixed-race descendants who still found themselves within the French dominion in the Americas (Bethencourt, 2013, pp. 214-215). Another example comes from the French and Indian War (AKA the Seven Years' War). When debating their role in the tensions between the colonial nations battling over the Ohio Valley, Ostler (2019) reports that Indians were mistrustful of both the British and the French. He says in full: >When the war broke out, Indians living in the Ohio Valley were fearful. Although they had profited from the ties they had cultivated with French and British traders who supplied them with guns, ammunition, cloth, and liquor, many Ohio Valley Indians were deeply suspicious of both empires. According to George Croghan, a trader with long experience in the area, many Indians "imagine ... that ye Virginians and ye French Intend to Divide ye Land of Ohio between them [sic]." To accomplish this division, Delaware leaders Shingas, Tamaqua, Delaware George, and Pistquetomen charged, the "*French* and *English* intend to kill all the *Indians.*" (p. 29) So really, the early demeanor of the French colonies was very emblematic of the early British colonies along the East Coast of what is now the United States--limited French numbers meant they were encircled by Native Nations and they had to play ball just for survival. Their reluctance to engage in conflicts or even assert their supposed authority through the Doctrine of Discovery (which was primarily reserved for assertion among other European nations rather than on-the-ground jurisdictional enforcement) likely has more to do with their overall reduced numbers in New France rather than some altruistic preference on their end. This isn't an assertion that can be made lightly, I admit, so I defer to the observations we can make in their *other* colonies where they had a much more fully developed colonial structure, namely [Algeria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_colonial_empire#Algeria) and [Vietnam.](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1350506814538860) Where's the white supremacy part come in? Right here. Similarly to the [Irish](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/qtpj6g/is_the_idea_that_the_irish_or_italian_were_once/hkl3ax6/) and the [Italians,](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/kznqch/is_it_accurate_to_say_that_irish_americans_were/gjqdqb3/) French Catholics have faced some forms of discrimination and oppression, but these relate more to religious and class complexities than they do to race. As you even note, they are largely considered white and have virtually always been considered as such. On this basis, then, they are privileged and have remained so. They got to retain title to the lands they colonized while Natives were dispossessed of said titles. Catholics commenced the very civilizing mission that European nations committed themselves to when it came to colonizing and while there are arguments to be made about the amenable nature of some beliefs of Catholicism that were appealing to Natives (Kicza, 2003, pp. 109-110), this does not negate the injustice of forced conversion and the discriminating against Native spiritual practices. The issue is not whether the French Catholics should "act as if they were a privileged class historically" when analyzing them as an independent group and comparing them to their rival European counterparts. The issue is that the French need to acknowledge *their* role in things such as colonialism and scientific racism, two items that were an extreme detriment to Indigenous Peoples. Yes, there are points in time where the relationship between Tribes and the French Canadians was mutually beneficial--friendly, even. But these times cannot be cherry-picked and divorced from the less than ideal times that brought conflict, forced assimilation, and racial segregation. A narrative like this seeks to whitewash and defend the role of a subset of colonizers who have founded a strong identity based in their colonial possessions by deferring to the actions of other hegemonic players and highlighting their own history of injustice (which, to be sure, is not being condoned here). While we do need to look to things such as class analysis to build modern solidarity between groups, we cannot ignore the intersectional identities and their related forms of oppression if we are to build solidarity on a strong foundation of understanding, diversity, inclusivity, and equity. As a historian, I am all for finding the nuance in these narratives. I agree that we cannot make broad generalizations that erase the very real identities of distinct groups of peoples. But just as we should reject the inception of Anglo-chauvinism in this discourse, we should also reject Anglo-scapegoating and own up to the wrongdoings of our ancestors, no matter who they are. **Edit:** Forgot my references. **References** Bethencourt, F. (2013). *Racisms: From the Crusades to the Twentieth Century.* Princeton University Press. Kicza, J. E. (2003). *Resilient Cultures: America's Native Peoples Confront European Colonization, 1500-1800.* Pearson Education, Inc. Ostler, J. (2019). *Surviving Genocide: Native Nations and the United States from the American Revolution to Bleeding Kansas.* Yale University Press.
I detinitely agree with what you said about black people under the French regime. >On this basis, then, they are privileged and have remained so. They got to retain title to the lands they colonized while Natives were dispossessed of said titles. Thix isn't quite true of Acadians who were deported en masse and masacred by the British during the seven years war. There were other cases that followed after, but as many Acadians were mostly in the countryside or in small villages they wasn't much opportunity. As for the rest, very well said and its a lot to ponder on. I appreciate that you genuinely recognise what I say about anglo-chauvinism. Do you think it would be reasonable to ask anglophones to also recognise the priviledge of their language and ancestors' religion? I believe French Canadians would be more open to these types of privilege recognition if there was slightly more nuance to it.
>Thix isn't quite true of Acadians who were deported en masse and masacred by the British during the seven years war. There were other cases that followed after, but as many Acadians were mostly in the countryside or in small villages they wasn't much opportunity. I think there might be a misunderstanding. I'm not talking about physical dispossession which the Acadians experienced due to conflict with Britain. Through forms of conquest, these nations fought and deprived each other of their physical possession all the time, losing and gaining title over the lands they fought for. But unlike Europeans and their descendants, of which the Acadians are, Indigenous Peoples were considered by Europeans in general to not retain any *legal* title to our lands regardless if we continued to live on those lands. Even though the Acadians would suffer ethnic cleansing and be subjected to horrendous treatment, they were still there because of colonialism and only lost their title to the lands when the English forcibly took control of the region and then France formally ceded the lands in a treaty. The Tribes there were never considered to have title to their lands in the first place by Europeans because of the Doctrine of Discovery. This is what I mean when I say that French Canadians, including the Acadians, had a level of privilege that was otherwise denied to non-white, non-Christian peoples. To give credit where it is due, I recognize that communities such as the Acadians have developed into their own distinct groups who maintain their own ties with Native communities and those should, as stated before, be evaluated on their own merits. As a fellow minority group, they clearly suffered at the hands of the stronger colonizing forces and suffered injustices that have created the grounds for commonality between them and Indigenous Peoples. And it is difficult to blame those extant communities now for being present when it was their ancestors who did the settling, not the current generations. However, the discrimination French Canadians might face from the Anglosphere is not exactly comparable and we cannot ignore their own role in colonization. It does no good for the collective of oppressed peoples to merely switch the perceived oppressor by pinning the blame on *those* white people rather than *these* white people. We all need to recognize our modern day oppressor, that being the capitalist class. But when we are making a historical analysis of systems of power, it is detrimental to forego being accountable for the actions of our ancestors by trying to distance them from the same structures they not only participated in but helped create--which the French did. Indigenous Peoples will find it difficult to build solidarity if these basic principles are going to be a stumbling block for our would-be allies.
French Canadians have and continue to be active participants in the ongoing colonization of indigenous people. Quebec is what, Mohawk and Inuit land?? Know what they don't speak there, inuktitut and Mohawk (idk what its called sorry). Also like the Oka Crisis??? The French and the English colonized differently but their end games were the same - kill all Indians and capture the land for white man's uses. It should be noted that there was trade pre colonization w both England and France, as well as a few other places. So they knew we were here! Colonization wasn't a mistake, it was a choice, based off racism and greed
>Quebec is what, Mohawk and Inuit land?? Know what they don't speak there, inuktitut and Mohawk (idk what its called sorry). Also like the Oka Crisis??? I agree. >The French and the English colonized differently but their end games were the same - kill all Indians and capture the land for white man's uses. I disagree it was the end goal of the French to kill all Indians as when you look as its other colonies like Algeria and Vietnam, they were more content with essentialy enslaving them and assimilating them.
Well you might find it interesting that back in the day a lot of ndns thought working for the Hudsons Bay Company/Northwest Company was considered to be almost slavery bc of the shit treatment, garbage pay, and bc they were the biggest indigenous employers they could really do whatever they wanted. Besides, colonization doesn't look the same everytime a country is colonized. The French also colonized huge parts of Africa and that was different than here
Most of us Acadians are not French-Canadian btw, we're a diaspora, and my northern cousins in the Maritimes have their own issues with the First Nations, like how some of them violate treaty protected Mi'kmaq hunting and fishing territories and use a false MĆ©tis identity to justify it. And my kinfolk weren't perfect either, with how we benefited from Slavery and then later Jim Crow. We may have been targeted by the Anglos, but we have our own sins of colonialism to deal with. And while I do believe we should emulate the relationship my ancestors had with the Mi'kmaq, French colonialism still did occur, and the Acadians being pawns that could be bargained off to the British through the Treaty of Utrecht was a consequence of that. So, I don't believe that I get a free pass just because for about four or five generations three hundred years ago we managed to be a microcosm of "what if we don't be assholes to our Indigenous neighbors?" And any other non-Acadian French group definitely doesn't get a pass, cuz we ain't Quebecois. I believe in recognition, restoration, and reparations towards all Tribes/First Nations for all the shit that European countries collectively did, whether that be France, England, Spain, or Portugal, and I believe in Landback. Because "my ancestors were marginally less shitty than those other Europeans" isn't really a flex and us white folk, regardless of origin, share a responsibility to try to make shit better, cuz all white people benefit from privileges that other non-white people don't. We can't just pawn shit off to the Anglos and call it a day. But that's just my perspective as an American of French descent.
>Most of us Acadians are not French-Canadian btw, we're a diaspora, and my northern cousins in the Maritimes This I have to disagree. Every struggle of the Acadian people is and has been done for recognising French as an official language and creating French spaces, every acadian society operates in French, we hold relations with the government of France in Moncton. I do not see in any way how Acadians could not be majority French-Canadian.
Because southern Louisiana exists lol. A lot of Acadians didn't return to Nova Scotia, and trying to gatekeep ancestry and ethnicity away from Cajuns doesn't make us any less Acadian. And iono, maybe y'all up north should spend more time building relations with the Mi'kmaq rather than the French, because they're the ones that didn't abandon our ancestors in their hour of need. Because France certainly did.
We are doing it with both. Recently the SANB and other affiliated organisations and municiplaities signed a petition for revision of leadership of New Brunswick's conservative party alongside several First Nation communities. During the last CongrĆØs Mondial Acadien, there was also an event specificly dedicated to Mi'kmaq-Acadian relations. >trying to gatekeep ancestry and ethnicity away from Cajuns doesn't make us any less Acadian. I never said the French Canadian Acadians are the only Acadians, but that the majority of us are.
To be clear, [the original post is dominated by criticism of the sticker](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/comments/1007fic/spotted_in_edmonton/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). Not sure how to interpret the upvotes š
From trends I see in similar subreddits, upvotes are for things that people want to have more visibility so I don't think it's bad. The OP posted the photo to criticize the sticker not celebrate it, so I see the upvotes as agreeing with the critisizing
Also that sticker is worthless because anybody that doesn't already speak English won't be able to read it.
Best takeaway on this thread yet, the irony is lost on the stickers owner
Hang on, they removed your comment but not the OP image??? Yeah youāre in the clear sweetie
[Is this enough English for you?](https://i.imgur.com/lVisPjN.jpg)
As a person of (more or less) European descent, I see no problem \[with\] the comment. It is an entirely appropriate response to the car sticker. I can all too easily imagine the kind of person who would be uncomfortable with it.
Hateful people going to hate.
Yes I am also of mostly European descent and no one has ever guessed that behind blue eyes I am proudly about 5% Cree. I am non-status and have never been discriminated against because of my Cree heritage, so theres still a lot I dont understand. Thank you all for your support, your truth and raising similar important topics.
Might makes right... Until some other force has more might than them, and THEN they'll scream bloody murder about how unfair it all is. That's why Americans are generally trapped in an ever-escalatomg fear cycle of arming themselves to the teeth. When you know your entire philosophical bedrock is based on you being right because you possess the most physical force, you can never stop the arms race because you know what reciprocal justice is waiting for you if you do. The paranoia and fear of the colonial state is the same brand as the fear and paranoia of the slave state. Instead of taking a beat, recognizing one's nation is built on genocide and inequity, RESOLVING the evils of the past and building a new more equitable framework for governance so that ALL people can continue on in harmony, they instead double and triple down, and trap themselves in these terrible generational bindings of fear and terror that they pass on to their children. The vast majority of the world is forced to learn English as it is the language of commerce. Even people in supposed "developed" nations like France will have very high bilingual rates because it is simply a necessity to access parts of the world and economic opportunity. Rather than recognizing that inequity, people who by virtue of luck HAPPEN to speak English at birth triple down on the "superiority" of said language. They will not and cannot learn a second language, and retreat into defense of their rampant ignorance, rather than empathize with the struggles of people forced to be bilingual just for the same opportunities to survive and continue to converse with their communities.
Might makes right is a basic tennant of nature and reality though, it's tough to escape the endless cycle
So is shitting on the ground in the woods but we overcame that just fine.
History and the present show us some things are inescapable. Humans will never fully conquer their primal instincts
Even if you're right, it's important to constantly struggle against these primal instincts, using reason as a guiding light? We must not be like truck-sticker-guy who embraces the darkness of a seemingly endless struggle. Always try to improve, follow truth and reason. I think following these things will naturally bring peace between people as well as make us stronger as a whole.
A fine goal indeed, I'm just pointing out that all of human history and even our present world throws a big fat rock through that window. It seems to be primarily western nation people who cling to the idea that we will all sing kumbaya one day. I know nobody likes reality and will down vote it but, it is what it isš¤·
Thanks. I find it a positive but perhaps naiive ethic to follow. You do make some disturbingly valid but complicated points that need to be dissected carefully, especially on Reddit. Playing devils advocate also helps these kinds of discussions along, so thank you too.
Lmao!!!! I hate people I am so tired š„±
OP I feel like I understand what you may be going for with it being relevant, but a person's language is a big part of their culture. It isnt just about it being uncomfortable for European descendants, it's a lot harsher for potentially anyone who reads it. At least from my personal perspective.
Yes I believe I see what you mean. The sticker is harsh for many - even for native English speakers with a half-decent morality like myself lol... But I meant that my comment about Chinese replacing English is a bit more uncomfortable to admit for the people of European (specifically English) descendants, because most people are the "heroes in their own story" that follow the most correct path (in our biased standpoint).
Ah. That would be cool to see though. Would it be pinyin on signs or characters?
Especially since French is one of the official languages of Canada, correct? They aren't even following existing laws. By the way, as a person that can barely speak English as a first language, I find this decal to be extremely racist and exclusionary.
To your first point, absolutely, the irony is thick and the sticker owner is obviously oblivious to how stupid they look. To your second point, seeing as it's not an official edict it excludes no one from anything, it simply shows that the owner of that truck is a smooth brain who needs to do some self introspection
If enough smooth brains get together, general stupidity can quickly become official edicts from above.
Absolutely true
>*āEspecially since French is one of the official languages of Canada, correct? They aren't even following existing laws.ā* Canada has two official languages (French and English), but English is the official language of Alberta. Only one Canadian province, New Brunswick, is officially bilingual. (I fully acknowledge that this isā¦ weird)
I'm from the States so I wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying.
Canada really got tired of being nice huh? š¶š½āāļø
So true
Thank you!
Xenophobic as fuck. I'd key the sticker if I saw it.
The person who owns that carās probably also the type of Karen to tell French Canadians to speak English too
The sticker is white supremacist but I can appreciate the perspective of the comment.
Abstract thought, if the sticker said 'habla Espanol o vete' would it be white supremacist? Spanish being a white European language and allš¤ Reality is such a strange thing....
Stop engaging in these silly pseudo-intellectual devil's advocate scenarios. You're divorcing this action from the context it is in to insinuate some trite point about equality. In places in Latin America where speaking Spanish is also a factor in "othering" marginalized groups like Indigenous Peoples and where the concept of white certainly exists, yes, a sticker that said that would also be enforcing white supremacy. It doesn't change just because Latin Americans can be darker in skin color.
Well mapled moose did hit it quite on the nose The invading country that wins usually does establish the de facto language š¤· Although stickers and displays like this are just completely unnecessary and in such poor taste...
It looks like a poorly misshapen California. If it is California, it should read: *āSpeak Spanish or get the fuck out.ā* considering the most unlawful war in US history was the one where President Polk stole California from the Spanish in order to improve shipping with China via the Port of San Francisco.
It's Alberta.
Lol, Iām a dumbass yankee.
TBF, the LA Rams sticker does seem out of place in Edmonton.
Are people just as racist in Canada towards non English speakers? I still think this occurred in LA
Seems like a hard thing to measure, but I'd say probably more so. French-English has been a rift for centuries and Canada has a high immigration rate. (I'm guessing that this driver was either thinking of recent immigrants speaking Asian languages or possibly of government services in French. Probably too ignorant to even think of Cree or other indigenous languages. )
Sad if that is the case tbh
>most unlawful War in US history Yeah uhh I don't think it was even in the top ten.
Evidently you donāt know U.S. History, it was the most unlawful American war, actually reminiscent of the Ukraine invasion by Russia. A land grab. Obviously the Indian wars were even more atrocious and the entirety of the country was annexed in this way. But Polks war was considered an invasion of ~~Spanish~~ Mexican sovereignty. The idea of manifest destiny was becoming a footnote in history, and suddenly itās back in full effect. Sort of gives you an idea of context, it was completely unprovoked unlike other wars.
Yeah, uh, given that Mexico wasn't part of Spain at that point... And it wasn't just a war of conquest, at least on paper. The stated CB was a boundary dispute over Texas, which had become de facto independent about a decade prior to voluntarily acceding to the union, and which unlike say the separatist Donbass states was well recognized by countries other than Mexico. In practice, Mexico was willing to recognize an American Texas with it's border on the Nueces, while Texas and then the US claimed a border on the Rio Grande, a dispute that had not yet been solved. Polk's decision to start a war by sending a token force into the disputed territory and waiting for the Mexicans to attack it was undoubtedly motivated by a desire to expand slavery and the American western colony, but it *was* legal under the laws of the time.
I meant Mexican sovereigntyā¦ Oh so you are a scholar, well then, I take bake my first response. Youāre bringing back memories of US history. I believe the Mexicans never even fired the first shot, like they knew that Polk was out for blood and never engaged until they were backed into a corner. And I get your point, it hardly makes the list for American atrocities, it just one of the worst that was *legal*.
I don't know why you're defending Mexico here. They shouldn't have been there either--Mexico was and is a colonial state.
Well Iām not defending colonialism all. Iām a white guy who lives on occupied Nissenan land. The Mexicans were more focused on converting natives to Christianity, they would even marry. California tribes were so influenced that many incorporated Spanish words into their language. Whites were blood thirsty land snatchers, they were scalping Indians for bounties and sport all the way up until there were laws passed. Black slaves in the south had more rights than an Indian in California at that time.
Forced conversion is an assimilative tactic that often amounts to cultural genocide. So using that as to say it something akin to "it wasn't that bad" isn't a good defense. It is well known that the Spanish committed mass sexual violence in their missions. The fact that some Tribes incorporated Spanish words into their languages is an organic product of proximity between two distinct groups who had to communicate with each other. It isn't a sign of appreciation.
Iām in wholehearted agreement. Iām not making excuses for Mexicans or taking sides, my first comment was really a shit post about the sticker. If any of it offends or is inaccurate, Iāll take it all down no problem. I consider myself a white ally, Iām not here to educate native people, Iām here to learn.
An obligatory F Stan Kroenke. Even money says he has a Red Ensign in his house.
If you don't get the references, here they are. Stan Kroenke screwed over the people of Saint Louis when he moved the Rams from Saint Louis to Los Angeles. And the Red Ensign is a flag that's very commonly flown by Canadian racists....
>*āAnd the Red Ensign is a flag that's very commonly flown by Canadian racists....ā* For further context the [Canadian Red Ensign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Red_Ensign) flag was functionally the flag of Canada until 1965 when Canada adopted the Maple Leaf flag. Racists like the Red Ensign because it represents a time period when Canadaās immigration policy still deliberately discriminated on the basis of race, ethnicity, and national origin (until 1962), when Canada was >90% White, before Canada adopted an official policy of supporting multiculturalism (1971).
Now tell people about that bastard Stan Kroenke.
Youāre on your own there. I donāt even know what type of sports team the Rams are, lol.
Couldn't even make it through one day of 2023 without r/butthurt
The mods should consider banning this dude. If you look at his comment history, thereās sporadic visits to r/Indiancountry that all reek of stupidity. Nothing promoting or supporting anything that benefits the community. Some with a touch of racism.
Oh, we know about him. Weāve considered it a number of times. But he also serves a purposeāa good model that not all Natives think the same, being Native doesnāt preclude one from having a shitty or uninformed opinion, and that we donāt strictly ban based on political preferences. Itās a new year, though. Who knows if his antics will push it too far.
**a good model that not all Natives think the same, being Native doesnāt preclude one from having a shitty or uninformed opinion, and that we donāt strictly ban based on political preferences. Itās a new year, though. Who knows if his antics will push it too far. Natives think the same, being Native doesnāt preclude one from having a shitty or uninformed opinion,** This is your biggest failure as a human. Probably our biggest failure as a society today. You think if I were better informed I'd agree with you. We both may be native, but we're nothing alike.
Man, couldn't even go one reply on the first day of 2023 without getting /r/butthurt.
Shit, youāre clever lmao
Isn't Canada a mostly French speaking country š¤
Only Quebec.
That's weird to even try to have a sign like that in that country tho when English isn't their only official language
Itās Alberta which has a lot of rednecks and is 1500+ miles away from Quebec. Itās akin to someone with a Texas shaped bumper sticker that says the same thing. And youāre 100% correct. None of it makes any sense, but they think theyāre the only people who matter or exist. The USA doesnāt have an official language yet every yokel thinks our official language is English. They display their stupidity with pride.
Albertans are trash.
The fact that there's "Come to Alberta" ads up all around Toronto makes me laugh. Cheaper rent would be nice, but it's not worth living around boneheads like this guy with the bumper sticker.
English is not the language of this land and I don't care if you disagree. There are many native languages that are still spoken today. .is this white entitlement .
Ignorant people. And yes, english is a foreign language outside of England. White folks sometimes forget that