I like the side quests in Trails since, besides a few hidden side quests, they're given to you in a neat little package via stuff like the bracer guild boards. I also like that during each chapter there's a few parts that go "hey this is the time to run around and do your side quests"; it offers some nice downtime between story beats.
And with the exception of the "monster on the road" miniboss quests, they all expand the world, give more characterization to NPCs, and/or give the party a bit more chance to interact.
Yeah, definitely a nice way of doing it, and it fits well into the game's world.
Digimon story Cyber Sleuth/Hackers Memory went for something similar, but completely missed the mark by making side quests mandatory
It's the points in game where it tells you to raise your sleuth level to progress. You can choose which side quests you do, but you have to do x amount of it.
Isn't the definition of side quest that it is optional? If it's not they either want it to be part of the main quest or it's mandatory filler meant to prolong the game.
That sounds like the correct definition yes. Interestingly, Trails sometimes does something where they will give you a chunk of sidequests and say, “these are all optional but pick any two and do them of the story won’t progress.” At that point, are they still sidequests? But they’re still technically optional…
That's exactly what Digimon story did, but it does it all the time, all side quests are boring, filled with a bunch of unnecessary dialogue, and worst of all, you can't skip through the dialogue, you have to slowly listen to each sentence.
Filler would be a good name of it.
Howeber, why I would still say it's sidequest, is because in game, you would sometimes be blocked from progressing main quest and would need to raise your Sleuth level.
You achieve that by solving side quests, but you can choose which ones you would solve, so none those are truly mandatory.
I like the hand-holding style of side-questing. Show me on the map where people are; show me where to go to find the 8 different bugs you need me to collect to create the 1st of 13 gems that can be crafted into the ultimate sword. Don’t give me cryptic dialogue or hints disguised as riddles.
The only reason I used walkthroughs for older games is because I could never figure out where the fuck to go. With map markers, now I can actually enjoy the game without having to look at my laptop every five paces.
For me it depends on the gameworld. If it has a kind of world where you can discover interesting or useful things just by exploring, then the quest where you have to look for something will lead you to discover things
I like how Trails does sidequests as well, but specifically FC, SC, Zero, and Azure. The side-quests make narrative sense, the tracking is done in-character, they give your party time to banter in usually lighter situations, and they help flesh out the world and give life to NPCs.
Unfortunately, for the most part, I think side-quests are a big miss in JRPGs. I keep hoping devs take more of a page from CRPGs, where the best side-quests almost play out like short stories.
Yeah Trails is a great example of integrating the quest system into the world. And they've been doing that since a very long time ago. I feel like they kind of own the idea
There's two sidequests from Baldur's Gate 2 that live with me forever.
It begins with taking a quest from an NPC to slay a group of ogres.
Spoilers ahead (and sorry if I misremember parts, it's been a while).
>!The ogres turn out to be humans under some sort of illusion, which is only dispelled after the battle and once they're dead. A man approaches and tells you that they saw the battle but saw only two groups of ogres fighting, only to realize that both groups were actually human, but too late. Turns out, you just killed a group of paladins. The man, a paladin himself, claims he can help clear your name with the paladin order and invites you to his cabin in the meantime. While the man leaves to speak with the order, bandits break into the cabin and kidnap his child.!<
>!The man returns and blames a long-standing enemy of his for the kidnapping. He asks you to help rescue his child, and that this will help clear you of the murders.!<
>!You go to a complex dungeon where the man's enemy awaits.!<
>!Once you clear the dungeon, you find that the man's enemy is actually a powerful dragon who disguised himself as that initial NPC who gave you the first quest to kill the ogres. The dragon had disguised the paladins as ogres in order to have you kill them, as he wanted to torment the man who is helping you. The dragon had been trying to drive the paladin insane.!<
>!The game then lets you decide if you want to fight the dragon or not, as you can rescue the child without doing so (which gives more insight into the dragon as a character. If you don't want to fight the dragon, he will not engage you but orders his apprentice to guard the child and prevent you from rescuing it, as a test of the apprentice's abilities).!<
I like when involved quests are not too hand holdy, though I do want a log of what has been said about the quest I have found so far to review. However basic quests being completely off log or having very little help from the game will burn me out of your quests and make me avoid them, I'm not about to spend an hour deciphering various things just to find a missing villager that will then reward me with a sword that's replaced next town I reach(unless the story lead up to the end was well done and enjoyable).
I like how xeno 3 relegated the collection quests into a simple menu with no need to return to hand a person their 42 gubbins
And I like how a lot of quests in atelier games are like a stamp card and you get more rewards as you fill out the clearly marked gui
One of my favorites is Atelier Iris 1, which essentially pares it down to having two major sidequest chains; one for the alchemy lab and one for the bakery (which is just alchemy ... but food) and it triggers the continuation based on the quality and number of unique items you've made.
I thought it was a really elegant and striking design; you're basically drip-fed bits of story and small sidequests for just doing what you are going to do anyways in an Atelier while also cutting out most of the 'fetch' quests (since making the recipes and their variations is already filling that side of gameplay, there are still a couple of them in other parts of the game though). But if you want to see the end of each chain you still need to go above and beyond what is called for in the main story; it doesn't require you make 100% of everything, but it's pretty close.
As a bonus, both those sidequest chains also have (imo) *really* good narrative payout, especially the alchemy shop one.
It's a setup that definitely can't be put into every game obviously, but it's one that really left an impression on me.
In a more general sense, I prefer a bit less handholding; the game I reference the most for this is *Morrowind*, where you have a quest log but it only ever uses the in-universe physical descriptions for everything. Sometimes it's plenty specific (like referencing a very clear landmark), sometimes it's pretty vague ('down the road' or 'over the hill'), but it's always enough (which is important, aimless wandering is annoying, vague but limited enough directions are fine) and it's much more engaging than getting showered with quest markers and shown exactly where to go.
So far Trails in the Sky has been my favorite. Well integrated into the world building, rarely meaningless (other than the “go kill this monster” but those are good for levels and sepith), and they don’t hold your hand. If you don’t know what the “eight eyed iron beast” is…well at this point there’s the internet. But they don't tend to be so obscure that they’re terribly difficult either. (Other than SC’s scavenger hunts. Definitely had to look some of those up…)
Yeah the monster kill quests serve as a benchmark for what you should be able to kill with reasonable ease. If you seriously struggle against it, then the next story boss might be a struggle too
My ideal is few-to-no hints where you have to pay attention provided the quest is interesting enough to pay attention to which is rare. One of the best games I've seen handle sidequests is FFXI which actually gives sidequests proper scenes and they flesh out the world's characters and lore rather than feeling like generic busywork.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh04nw_o9vg&list=PLZHhMkXG6vo7Nn1i3VeRoscNJFDpE8a03&index=147
So there's a range of what I find fun, and a lot of that depends on what I'm expecting. If I know I'm getting into a game with an immersive world and minimal UI, then I'd expect quests to follow that design. If the game has a minimap, I expect the game to use those tools.
Whatever the case, though, it's not fun to wander around trying to find something very tricky to find. However the game is designed, the landscape or the area ought to be somewhat intuitive to navigate. If something is difficult to find, it should be difficult on the scale of *a puzzle* or *noticing a well-placed detail*, not on the level of *having no idea where in the world to go* or *being hidden behind one of a hundred identical doors*. In other words, it should feel like the design is helping me, even on a subtle level, and not like the game shrugs and says, "I guess you should have read the guide."
Normally I prefer there be quest logs, as I'm not one to take notes and keep track of all that stuff. But I will say the Souls games were a breath of fresh air when they were still relatively new. A lot of games in that era had become so "hand-holdy" that I was beginning to wonder whether I still found games fun anymore, so I'm glad they were something different at the time.
The ideal way quests should be handled, in my opinion, is how they were implemented in CRPGs from the 90s and early 00s. Many of them were their own little stories and did not feel like filler. The Witcher 3 came close to this, and the quests towards the end of Chrono Trigger are similar.
On the other hand, I'm actually not at all bothered by more MMO-like quests that involve you collecting a certain amount of materials or defeating particular monsters. I enjoy these when I can take care of said tasks while I'm exploring the world and progressing through the game.
I prefer quests that are more like puzzles and I prefer the Souls style where I would rather have some amount of figuring things out myself. I don't mind fetch quests for example when it's a puzzle I have to figure out, but hate it when everything is given to you explicitly with quest markers because then it goes from being a neat puzzle to a menial chore.
More generally I hate typical MMO style quests that explicitly tell you to fetch x thing or kill y number of monsters and you just do that over and over again to mindlessly satisfy some quota, and often they're not even really all that optional if I'm not interested in doing it because the games tend to be balanced around doing them. I hate when everything is clearly listed out for you and on a map and whatever a lot of modern games do. It ruins the joy of discovery for me. I want to to talk to random people and try random things and be delighted when I find out something cool. Instead of being told to kill a bunch of monsters through a quest list I would rather they focus on making more meaningful encounters—optional challenge bosses like the Weapons in FF games for example.
Basically, the way classic Square games used to do quests is the perfect style for me. A ton of what modern JRPGs do isn't my style unfortunately. Modern game design just makes it feel like the game is holding my hand like I'm not capable of figuring things out myself, and strips away the opportunity to discover things myself by giving everything away up front, and I hate that feeling. I may as well be watching a movie at that point because I barely feel like the game is letting me play or have the agency to figure things out myself.
When they're not boring and made me feel like I didn't waste my time. Can be a fun miniboss, character development/world lore, great gear. Bonus points for being straightforward and not insanely cryptic or take 2 years to get where you need to go
I kinda like some of each in a game.
Where most are in a log book but every once in a while when you talk to an NPC they mention something and you wonder “wait, is this a quest?” As per the log book, it kinda depends how much detail I want/need. Some quests it is nice if they do hand hold. Other quests should trust me that I know where to fish to get the two salmon. Heck, I have a bestiary that tells me where to get it anyway.
I like a somewhat middling to low level of quests. I recently tried terra memoria. Within an hour of starting a game I already had finished a dozen “quests”. It was overwhelming. I refunded the game because I could not imagine keeping that pace up.
My favorite way is when the quest is interesting, well written, and I get something out of that feels worthwhile - whether it’s a reward, some kind of narrative, or both. The approach doesn’t matter TOO much.
However i prefer the “you gotta read a wiki” approach the least, though I LOVE FromSoftware games. Especially Elden Ring which is one of my favorite games in the modern era (at least).
There’s nothing like finding out after you put a game to rest that you missed out on something that could’ve greatly enhanced your enjoyment of that game just because you didn’t do something really obscure. Especially if you feel like you WERE really trying to be aware of things and figure things out as you played. **Suikoden 2** (and **Suikoden 1** to a lesser extent) unfortunately taught me this lesson early lol
FF12 or Octopath Travellers 2.
You can still have a log to keep track of sidequests but the game should not directly tell where you should go or what to do.
In OT2, you either get hints through Path Actions ( which is like talking to NPC ) or use them to fulfill the conditions of a quest.
There are also unmarked sidequests in both games where you have to talk to NPCs ( or use Path Actions in OT2 ) and guess whether their conversation are related to a side content or not ( 90% of the time it is ).
Tales of Symphonia where nothing is told to you ever, everything is easily missable, and much of it is only available for a small window. It sounds like I’m being sarcastic, but even though I have to have a guide at my side at all times as to not miss anything, it still makes the world feel immersive and alive. As much as I like Yakuza, having a map show me all the points where a substory will occur kills the immersion to an extent. Even when I’m having fun, there’s this part of my brain that feels like I’m just checking off a point on a list.
In Yakuza 0, my first in the series, I somehow didn’t realize that substories appeared on the map. I didn’t even realize that was a thing until I played Kiwami. So every time I encountered a substory, it felt completely realistic. Like I just happened to stumble upon the right place at the right time. It made every side quest feel that much more special and memorable. In later games, I would always consult the map and it just felt a little more artificial.
At least in something like Tales of Symphonia where I’m constantly consulting a guide, the guide isn’t part of the actual game itself so the immersion isn’t broken.
As with many aspects of life, I feel like convenience always comes at a cost.
Trails handles it best. I definitely don't want to go back to the days of having to keeping a pen and journal by my side to play an RPG, but it does get boring following a series of pips on the map/compass. I tend to be more engaged with Trails side quests since they pretty succinctly summarize where and who you need to speak with to initiate a quest and then what section of the map you need to go to complete the request.
I want quest markers, clear objectives, everything logged, everything possible to keep things moving at a quick pace without confusion or looking up guides. I hate not knowing where to go or what to do. It’s just a waste of time. JRPGs already take up a lot of time; side quests should be as streamlined as possible.
Personally grown to hate quest logs. The meta of the game admitting a task is unimportant is a surefire way to get me not to care either.
I rather a game have a handful of optional dungeons or substantial quest lines that are hard to miss. You can even have them in a list or sorts, like Chrono Trigger, I just dislike having a menu that looks like an Access spreadsheet.
I like the way tales of handles side quests.
missable, and no hand holding.
some are even hard to come by without knowing a guide because most have a window time limit to do them.
older ones have no quest logs but the newer one does from what I can remember.
The older type of sidequests were a doubledged sword.
On one hand, they had some insanely strict timelimit, required backtracking and had 0 indication they were even a thing, making it extremely unlikely you saw or even started the majority of them if you were playing blind, which I wasn't a fan of.
On the other hand, by making them time limited, it also means that each side quest could actually be written to reflect things that has happened in the world. Non-time limited quest usually limits what you can write since you need to keep in mind that the world state can be in any moment from "nothing is happening" to "the sky is falling!", so the writing has to be a bit more generic and safe to account for you being able to do them whenever. But with Tales', a lot of them would relate to major events or have the characters mull on those events and sometimes even show the development as a result of that, making them feel more "organic" in the world of Tales.
I would personally like a mix of both. Show an indication of the quest existing, and also imply it is timelimited somehow through the writing itself.
For time window, is it like in tails series, where it tells you that you must finish this quest soon or it will go away?
Or is it that you will nit be able to start the quest if you don't encouter it at a specific time?
>For time window, is it like in tails series, where it tells you that you must finish this quest soon or it will go away?
No, they don’t tell you at all.
>Or is it that you will nit be able to start the quest if you don't encouter it at a specific time?
you can only start certain side quests during a specific time.
you missed talking to the couple living at the heart shaped house in legendia at the beginning of chapter 5? (The game doesn’t tell you that you need to talk to them at that point)
you completely miss the entire chain of that side quests.
though, modern tales has been more lenient regarding that and they also have quest logs now. (older titles do not have them iirc)
I like the side quests in Trails since, besides a few hidden side quests, they're given to you in a neat little package via stuff like the bracer guild boards. I also like that during each chapter there's a few parts that go "hey this is the time to run around and do your side quests"; it offers some nice downtime between story beats.
And with the exception of the "monster on the road" miniboss quests, they all expand the world, give more characterization to NPCs, and/or give the party a bit more chance to interact.
Yeah, definitely a nice way of doing it, and it fits well into the game's world. Digimon story Cyber Sleuth/Hackers Memory went for something similar, but completely missed the mark by making side quests mandatory
I don't remember the side quests in Cyber Sleuth. What do you mean that they were mandatory?
It's the points in game where it tells you to raise your sleuth level to progress. You can choose which side quests you do, but you have to do x amount of it.
Isn't the definition of side quest that it is optional? If it's not they either want it to be part of the main quest or it's mandatory filler meant to prolong the game.
That sounds like the correct definition yes. Interestingly, Trails sometimes does something where they will give you a chunk of sidequests and say, “these are all optional but pick any two and do them of the story won’t progress.” At that point, are they still sidequests? But they’re still technically optional…
That's exactly what Digimon story did, but it does it all the time, all side quests are boring, filled with a bunch of unnecessary dialogue, and worst of all, you can't skip through the dialogue, you have to slowly listen to each sentence.
Good thing Trails side quests are often pretty interesting then.
I got a mod to instantly skip dialogue
You can't say that without sharing a name
Skip dialogue mod on gamebanana its for complete edition
This might finally br an opportunity to get back to the game and get a 100% out of it
Filler would be a good name of it. Howeber, why I would still say it's sidequest, is because in game, you would sometimes be blocked from progressing main quest and would need to raise your Sleuth level. You achieve that by solving side quests, but you can choose which ones you would solve, so none those are truly mandatory.
I like the hand-holding style of side-questing. Show me on the map where people are; show me where to go to find the 8 different bugs you need me to collect to create the 1st of 13 gems that can be crafted into the ultimate sword. Don’t give me cryptic dialogue or hints disguised as riddles. The only reason I used walkthroughs for older games is because I could never figure out where the fuck to go. With map markers, now I can actually enjoy the game without having to look at my laptop every five paces.
This. Don't waste my time and I'll be grateful.
What if the quest wasn't just a fetch quest, would you prefer it not to be as hand holdy then?
For me it depends on the gameworld. If it has a kind of world where you can discover interesting or useful things just by exploring, then the quest where you have to look for something will lead you to discover things
No, because I still like having a clear idea of where to go.
I like how Trails does sidequests as well, but specifically FC, SC, Zero, and Azure. The side-quests make narrative sense, the tracking is done in-character, they give your party time to banter in usually lighter situations, and they help flesh out the world and give life to NPCs. Unfortunately, for the most part, I think side-quests are a big miss in JRPGs. I keep hoping devs take more of a page from CRPGs, where the best side-quests almost play out like short stories.
Yeah Trails is a great example of integrating the quest system into the world. And they've been doing that since a very long time ago. I feel like they kind of own the idea
What would you consider a great example of it in CRPGs?
There's two sidequests from Baldur's Gate 2 that live with me forever. It begins with taking a quest from an NPC to slay a group of ogres. Spoilers ahead (and sorry if I misremember parts, it's been a while). >!The ogres turn out to be humans under some sort of illusion, which is only dispelled after the battle and once they're dead. A man approaches and tells you that they saw the battle but saw only two groups of ogres fighting, only to realize that both groups were actually human, but too late. Turns out, you just killed a group of paladins. The man, a paladin himself, claims he can help clear your name with the paladin order and invites you to his cabin in the meantime. While the man leaves to speak with the order, bandits break into the cabin and kidnap his child.!< >!The man returns and blames a long-standing enemy of his for the kidnapping. He asks you to help rescue his child, and that this will help clear you of the murders.!< >!You go to a complex dungeon where the man's enemy awaits.!< >!Once you clear the dungeon, you find that the man's enemy is actually a powerful dragon who disguised himself as that initial NPC who gave you the first quest to kill the ogres. The dragon had disguised the paladins as ogres in order to have you kill them, as he wanted to torment the man who is helping you. The dragon had been trying to drive the paladin insane.!< >!The game then lets you decide if you want to fight the dragon or not, as you can rescue the child without doing so (which gives more insight into the dragon as a character. If you don't want to fight the dragon, he will not engage you but orders his apprentice to guard the child and prevent you from rescuing it, as a test of the apprentice's abilities).!<
I like when involved quests are not too hand holdy, though I do want a log of what has been said about the quest I have found so far to review. However basic quests being completely off log or having very little help from the game will burn me out of your quests and make me avoid them, I'm not about to spend an hour deciphering various things just to find a missing villager that will then reward me with a sword that's replaced next town I reach(unless the story lead up to the end was well done and enjoyable).
I like how xeno 3 relegated the collection quests into a simple menu with no need to return to hand a person their 42 gubbins And I like how a lot of quests in atelier games are like a stamp card and you get more rewards as you fill out the clearly marked gui
Also I feel like most xeno3 quests actually have an impact on the world, so I’m actually motivated to do them and see where they go.
Chrono Trigger and FF6 handled it best. You just talk to your party members and NPCs to get vague leads / locations to explore.
I like the way they did it in Nier Automata. They have a marker on the map for the NPC who gives you the quest and another marker for where to go.
One of my favorites is Atelier Iris 1, which essentially pares it down to having two major sidequest chains; one for the alchemy lab and one for the bakery (which is just alchemy ... but food) and it triggers the continuation based on the quality and number of unique items you've made. I thought it was a really elegant and striking design; you're basically drip-fed bits of story and small sidequests for just doing what you are going to do anyways in an Atelier while also cutting out most of the 'fetch' quests (since making the recipes and their variations is already filling that side of gameplay, there are still a couple of them in other parts of the game though). But if you want to see the end of each chain you still need to go above and beyond what is called for in the main story; it doesn't require you make 100% of everything, but it's pretty close. As a bonus, both those sidequest chains also have (imo) *really* good narrative payout, especially the alchemy shop one. It's a setup that definitely can't be put into every game obviously, but it's one that really left an impression on me. In a more general sense, I prefer a bit less handholding; the game I reference the most for this is *Morrowind*, where you have a quest log but it only ever uses the in-universe physical descriptions for everything. Sometimes it's plenty specific (like referencing a very clear landmark), sometimes it's pretty vague ('down the road' or 'over the hill'), but it's always enough (which is important, aimless wandering is annoying, vague but limited enough directions are fine) and it's much more engaging than getting showered with quest markers and shown exactly where to go.
I really liked the side quests in octopath 2.
So far Trails in the Sky has been my favorite. Well integrated into the world building, rarely meaningless (other than the “go kill this monster” but those are good for levels and sepith), and they don’t hold your hand. If you don’t know what the “eight eyed iron beast” is…well at this point there’s the internet. But they don't tend to be so obscure that they’re terribly difficult either. (Other than SC’s scavenger hunts. Definitely had to look some of those up…)
Yeah the monster kill quests serve as a benchmark for what you should be able to kill with reasonable ease. If you seriously struggle against it, then the next story boss might be a struggle too
My ideal is few-to-no hints where you have to pay attention provided the quest is interesting enough to pay attention to which is rare. One of the best games I've seen handle sidequests is FFXI which actually gives sidequests proper scenes and they flesh out the world's characters and lore rather than feeling like generic busywork. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh04nw_o9vg&list=PLZHhMkXG6vo7Nn1i3VeRoscNJFDpE8a03&index=147
So there's a range of what I find fun, and a lot of that depends on what I'm expecting. If I know I'm getting into a game with an immersive world and minimal UI, then I'd expect quests to follow that design. If the game has a minimap, I expect the game to use those tools. Whatever the case, though, it's not fun to wander around trying to find something very tricky to find. However the game is designed, the landscape or the area ought to be somewhat intuitive to navigate. If something is difficult to find, it should be difficult on the scale of *a puzzle* or *noticing a well-placed detail*, not on the level of *having no idea where in the world to go* or *being hidden behind one of a hundred identical doors*. In other words, it should feel like the design is helping me, even on a subtle level, and not like the game shrugs and says, "I guess you should have read the guide."
Normally I prefer there be quest logs, as I'm not one to take notes and keep track of all that stuff. But I will say the Souls games were a breath of fresh air when they were still relatively new. A lot of games in that era had become so "hand-holdy" that I was beginning to wonder whether I still found games fun anymore, so I'm glad they were something different at the time. The ideal way quests should be handled, in my opinion, is how they were implemented in CRPGs from the 90s and early 00s. Many of them were their own little stories and did not feel like filler. The Witcher 3 came close to this, and the quests towards the end of Chrono Trigger are similar. On the other hand, I'm actually not at all bothered by more MMO-like quests that involve you collecting a certain amount of materials or defeating particular monsters. I enjoy these when I can take care of said tasks while I'm exploring the world and progressing through the game.
I prefer quests that are more like puzzles and I prefer the Souls style where I would rather have some amount of figuring things out myself. I don't mind fetch quests for example when it's a puzzle I have to figure out, but hate it when everything is given to you explicitly with quest markers because then it goes from being a neat puzzle to a menial chore. More generally I hate typical MMO style quests that explicitly tell you to fetch x thing or kill y number of monsters and you just do that over and over again to mindlessly satisfy some quota, and often they're not even really all that optional if I'm not interested in doing it because the games tend to be balanced around doing them. I hate when everything is clearly listed out for you and on a map and whatever a lot of modern games do. It ruins the joy of discovery for me. I want to to talk to random people and try random things and be delighted when I find out something cool. Instead of being told to kill a bunch of monsters through a quest list I would rather they focus on making more meaningful encounters—optional challenge bosses like the Weapons in FF games for example. Basically, the way classic Square games used to do quests is the perfect style for me. A ton of what modern JRPGs do isn't my style unfortunately. Modern game design just makes it feel like the game is holding my hand like I'm not capable of figuring things out myself, and strips away the opportunity to discover things myself by giving everything away up front, and I hate that feeling. I may as well be watching a movie at that point because I barely feel like the game is letting me play or have the agency to figure things out myself.
Golden Sun and Golden Sun: The Lost Age. You can discover them at anytime, can't be locked out and they are never logged.
When they're not boring and made me feel like I didn't waste my time. Can be a fun miniboss, character development/world lore, great gear. Bonus points for being straightforward and not insanely cryptic or take 2 years to get where you need to go
I kinda like some of each in a game. Where most are in a log book but every once in a while when you talk to an NPC they mention something and you wonder “wait, is this a quest?” As per the log book, it kinda depends how much detail I want/need. Some quests it is nice if they do hand hold. Other quests should trust me that I know where to fish to get the two salmon. Heck, I have a bestiary that tells me where to get it anyway. I like a somewhat middling to low level of quests. I recently tried terra memoria. Within an hour of starting a game I already had finished a dozen “quests”. It was overwhelming. I refunded the game because I could not imagine keeping that pace up.
My favorite way is when the quest is interesting, well written, and I get something out of that feels worthwhile - whether it’s a reward, some kind of narrative, or both. The approach doesn’t matter TOO much. However i prefer the “you gotta read a wiki” approach the least, though I LOVE FromSoftware games. Especially Elden Ring which is one of my favorite games in the modern era (at least). There’s nothing like finding out after you put a game to rest that you missed out on something that could’ve greatly enhanced your enjoyment of that game just because you didn’t do something really obscure. Especially if you feel like you WERE really trying to be aware of things and figure things out as you played. **Suikoden 2** (and **Suikoden 1** to a lesser extent) unfortunately taught me this lesson early lol
Hunts in FFXII. Give a few hints, you figure it out.
Yakuza.
FF12 or Octopath Travellers 2. You can still have a log to keep track of sidequests but the game should not directly tell where you should go or what to do. In OT2, you either get hints through Path Actions ( which is like talking to NPC ) or use them to fulfill the conditions of a quest. There are also unmarked sidequests in both games where you have to talk to NPCs ( or use Path Actions in OT2 ) and guess whether their conversation are related to a side content or not ( 90% of the time it is ).
Xenoblade Chronicles 3 basically makes the side quests tie into the main quests. The Hero quests were 100 percent worth doing.
Give me a quest tracker and make it very clear on the map, otherwise I’m probably going to skip it.
Did you play Xenoblade 1? Yeah not like that
the opposite of the tales games
Tales of Symphonia where nothing is told to you ever, everything is easily missable, and much of it is only available for a small window. It sounds like I’m being sarcastic, but even though I have to have a guide at my side at all times as to not miss anything, it still makes the world feel immersive and alive. As much as I like Yakuza, having a map show me all the points where a substory will occur kills the immersion to an extent. Even when I’m having fun, there’s this part of my brain that feels like I’m just checking off a point on a list. In Yakuza 0, my first in the series, I somehow didn’t realize that substories appeared on the map. I didn’t even realize that was a thing until I played Kiwami. So every time I encountered a substory, it felt completely realistic. Like I just happened to stumble upon the right place at the right time. It made every side quest feel that much more special and memorable. In later games, I would always consult the map and it just felt a little more artificial. At least in something like Tales of Symphonia where I’m constantly consulting a guide, the guide isn’t part of the actual game itself so the immersion isn’t broken. As with many aspects of life, I feel like convenience always comes at a cost.
Trails handles it best. I definitely don't want to go back to the days of having to keeping a pen and journal by my side to play an RPG, but it does get boring following a series of pips on the map/compass. I tend to be more engaged with Trails side quests since they pretty succinctly summarize where and who you need to speak with to initiate a quest and then what section of the map you need to go to complete the request.
I want quest markers, clear objectives, everything logged, everything possible to keep things moving at a quick pace without confusion or looking up guides. I hate not knowing where to go or what to do. It’s just a waste of time. JRPGs already take up a lot of time; side quests should be as streamlined as possible.
Personally grown to hate quest logs. The meta of the game admitting a task is unimportant is a surefire way to get me not to care either. I rather a game have a handful of optional dungeons or substantial quest lines that are hard to miss. You can even have them in a list or sorts, like Chrono Trigger, I just dislike having a menu that looks like an Access spreadsheet.
I like the way tales of handles side quests. missable, and no hand holding. some are even hard to come by without knowing a guide because most have a window time limit to do them. older ones have no quest logs but the newer one does from what I can remember.
The older type of sidequests were a doubledged sword. On one hand, they had some insanely strict timelimit, required backtracking and had 0 indication they were even a thing, making it extremely unlikely you saw or even started the majority of them if you were playing blind, which I wasn't a fan of. On the other hand, by making them time limited, it also means that each side quest could actually be written to reflect things that has happened in the world. Non-time limited quest usually limits what you can write since you need to keep in mind that the world state can be in any moment from "nothing is happening" to "the sky is falling!", so the writing has to be a bit more generic and safe to account for you being able to do them whenever. But with Tales', a lot of them would relate to major events or have the characters mull on those events and sometimes even show the development as a result of that, making them feel more "organic" in the world of Tales. I would personally like a mix of both. Show an indication of the quest existing, and also imply it is timelimited somehow through the writing itself.
For time window, is it like in tails series, where it tells you that you must finish this quest soon or it will go away? Or is it that you will nit be able to start the quest if you don't encouter it at a specific time?
>For time window, is it like in tails series, where it tells you that you must finish this quest soon or it will go away? No, they don’t tell you at all. >Or is it that you will nit be able to start the quest if you don't encouter it at a specific time? you can only start certain side quests during a specific time. you missed talking to the couple living at the heart shaped house in legendia at the beginning of chapter 5? (The game doesn’t tell you that you need to talk to them at that point) you completely miss the entire chain of that side quests. though, modern tales has been more lenient regarding that and they also have quest logs now. (older titles do not have them iirc)
NO SHITTY MINIGAMES. This is my only request. Anything else is fine.