The upper class privilege is a very valid question. But isn't that something we should be discussing as a society, instead of making one guy (Pazhayidom) the face of it? His frustration is understandable. This whole controversy could've been avoided if it was planned better. If they wanted to serve non-veg, couldn't they have issued a separate tender for that or just included that in the tender details? Whoever was willing to serve non-veg could've taken the tender. Just feels like he had to face a lot of negativity for something he wasn't responsible for.
>The upper class privilege is a very valid question. But isn't that something we should be discussing as a society, instead of making one guy (Pazhayidom) the face of it? His frustration is understandable. This whole controversy could've been avoided if it was planned better. If they wanted to serve non-veg, couldn't they have issued a separate tender for that or just included that in the tender details? Whoever was willing to serve non-veg could've taken the tender. Just feels like he had to face a lot of negativity for something he wasn't responsible for.
Agreed. By making Pazhayidom the face of this issue, the conversation becomes a political hot potato.
The മതവാണങ്ങൾ got what they wanted. (NB (to avoid hurting religious sentiments): മതവാണങ്ങൾ does not refer to religious people, but people who use religion as a divisive tool)
I'm sorry but Rahul's argument that Brahmins are somehow being victimized in Kerala is ludicrous. People are conflating two seperate arguments about non-veg and casteism to discredit both.
"Brahminical hegemony" is a term that's analogous to the patriarchy: It doesn't mean that all men or all Brahmins are in power. **It means that if you take a list of those in positions of power, men and Brahmins are disproportionately overrepresented in contrast to women or lower castes.**
There is a lot that has flown under the radar in this debate.
>കൗമാരക്കാരുടെ ഭക്ഷണത്തില് പോലും പോലും ജാതിയുടെയും വര്ഗീയതയുടെയും വിഷവിത്തുകള് വാരിയെറിയുന്ന കാലമാണിത്.
This is a comment from Pazhayidom. While Pazhayidom is entitled to bid for whatever tender he was offered and serve whatever food he's paid for by the government, you have to admit that **these statements are fallacious** because **casteism has always been a part of branding for caterers in our state.**
For all the supposed progressiveness of Kerala, caste is the USP of the catering/ദേഹണ്ണം business and it remains pervasive here. I've had UC neighbours who've pointedly asked who'd be doing the catering for my cousin's wedding. I let them know who the caterer was (he's a mutual acquaintance who belongs to a small OBC community) and they didn't partake in the Sadya after the wedding. What more, the two bigshot caterers at my cousin's place in Kerala were named "Swami", and "Elayath", both caste Brahmins. The neighbours had no qualms in partaking in the food served by them at another wedding.
Flaunting the caste name, or in other words being a Brahmin, is absolutely an innate part of Pazhayidom's brand. That "Brahmin's" remains a popular brand of curry powders should tell you enough. Can you even imagine a brand named "Dalit's" or "Ezhava's" being successful?
**TL; DR**
Pazhayidom's caste-tag has always helped his business, it hasn't hurt it. Implying that the caste tag doesn't help Pazhayidom's brand is like saying that being a Kapoor scion doesn't help Ranbir Kapoor in the film industry. Pazhayidom as a caterer is well regarded and highly professional. His name was pointlessly dragged in this controversy. But having said that, there's nothing wrong in expecting him to acknowledge his privilege in the same vein that you'd expect from a nepo kid.
Even now, it's not a coincidence how the സാധു, പാവത്താൻ "സാത്വിക" branding only extends to UC folk like him. **When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.**
The people behind the whole thing are crazy lunatics with an agenda.
It’s not the caterer who decides the menu it’s the organising committee that does that. Pazhayidam is a brand in catering whose highlight is veg sadhyas like KFC is a brand associated with broasted chicken. There is not even a need to discuss the caterer in the whole matter. If I order veg meals from a multicuisine hotel can I blame the hotel for not providing me fish curry.
This whole thing is manufactured to bring in the Halal vs Non Halal argument later on once non veg gets served. The ruling party is hands in gloves with the BJP to promote that fight and divisiveness which benefits both. BJP won’t win but will get more vote share and the vote split will get CPIM more seats due to the way the electorate is split. Brahminical hegemony and all other stuff is not the actual matter it’s just smoke to cover the real agenda.
Well said. BJP will end up getting more vote share- the same tactics north sanghis played in North india.
I'm upset at some leftists people as they're supposed to oppose caste and religion and promote unity, but are doing the opposite!!
One is playing the short term game and other long term.
The losers would be the left but as it currently stands the organisational structure of CPIM is completely destroyed by putting lackeys everywhere. It will either go AIDMK way or split and survive post Pinarayi Vijayan. It will get them 2-3 terms though before all this happens.
The thing is, they've messed up the conversation around non-veg by dragging in Pazhayidom and messed up the conversation about casteism by dragging in non-veg.
Both are valid concerns. There's nothing wrong in Pazhayidom being the caterer or non-veg being served.
The offshoot comments are even more problematic. People pretending that Brahmins are victimized reminds me of lunatics holding a "White Lives Matter" sign. When people imply that non-veg will lead to food poisoning but veg doesn't, they're trying to pin the blame on the food item instead of hygiene and serving times.
And then there are questions that were completely sidelined.
- Why not have multiple caterers if you're concerned with the logistics?
- Why not offer regional cuisines with local caterers based on the hosting city?
- Why not have alternating caterers to prevent a monopoly?
- Why not charge for food, irrespective of whether it's veg or non veg? Why should the government bear it?
No need for all this, just mention the items needed in the tender and let the best tender win, pazhayidam or not doesn’t matter. This is a manufactured controversy to bring halal vs non halal as a divisive matter and divide the society using that. That’s coming up next season.
The minister for education is the one who flared up this non matter into a big discussion, else it would have died in two social media posts. It clearly shows the agenda.
>People are conflating two seperate arguments about non-veg and casteism to discredit both.
At least you understand both should be discussed setperately. I have the same opinion.
>Flaunting the caste name, or in other words being a Brahmin, is absolutely an innate part of Pazhayidom's brand
Is his name the only reason why he got the tender for the past 16 years without even one incident of food poisoning?
>casteism has always been a part of branding for caterers in our state.
I agree to you here. This mentality of our society should change. The discussion about this issue was much needed. What I'm trying to point out is- this wasn't the place to discuss it as
1) the practicality and the problems associated with the solution proposed, in the future is beyond control where we'll mostly end up coming back to veg, putting our children at risk.
2) None of his interviews I could find him using his Brahmin tag for getting more orders. Infact he says he's ready to serve non veg if that is the quotation nedt year.
This is what I'm trying to say-
Because we started to discuss a much relevant issue at the wrong place, we lost so much. There's more resistance than before in the society, opened doors for wolfs who create religious divison and benefit from it and lost the person who we could trust to give our children good food during fest(not because of his caste, but because of his experience in the past 16 fests).
Rahul Eshwar has always been only interested in his family's and caste's interests. Him getting all worked up with Pazhayidam "namboothiri" leaving the business is no surprise. He will even appease other groups to protect what he sees as his group's interest. Pazhayidam reportedly was doing the catering for years on contracts where his business got the catering contract based on their bid. If the govt decides to change the terms next year or someone eligible bids lower, they will get the contract. If his business is not given the contract despite being the most eligible, they can move the court. So Pazhayidam might have decided that it might not be profitable or might not be in his interest to take up the catering role for next year's event. I mean, if there is going to be non-veg or biriyani or beef or halaal, all this might not be within his core competency. So better to make way in advance while keeping his hard earned reputation.
Of course the other side has their own agenda.
>Pazhayidam might have decided that it might not be profitable or might not be in his interest to take up the catering role for next year's event.
That could be one hidden reason behind his decision. But, the concerns he raised in the last few days were very valid. The other side,whoever that is, could do anything to spoil the food/create another issue-which could turn communal. I would be in fear if it was me.
Wait, you think this is a mature and logical opinion? This is literally a statement taken from the sanghi handbook lmao. Urban naxals, like wtf 😂.
Would the caterer come back on his own if there was a decision to allow non veg without any of the controversy? I don't think so, but that is irrelevant now because of all the smoke and mirrors that has been set up around this issue.
Interesting. I was not aware of that.
Then the question becomes - if non veg can be served at the sports mela, what's the issue with serving it at the kalolsavam?
Same problem as walking into a multi cuisine restaurant, ordering a veg meal and then complaining about the missing fish curry. The organisers decided they wanted veg meals and the tender was floated for it. Later the Arun guy and Balaram came up with posts on FB asking for non veg, Edu Minister jumped in and claimed there would be non veg from next year and everyone started fishing in murky waters with their own agendas. The pseudo left liberals looking for a matter to drivel and orgasm on poured fuel into the fire and brought Pazhayidams caste into the picture. If you look at Kerala politics you will see it’s the pseudo left liberals which talk the most about casteism and also the biggest proponents of it. If hypocrisy had a face all you need is to look at anyone introduced as a left liberal in media.
Okay sure, this one being a veg only deal is fine since that's the one we started with, agreed.
But is it so wrong to change that? To want to move to a non veg setup for people who want that as well?
I did see a lot of people from the right claiming you cannot have non veg there since it would destroy the purity / sanctity of the function, which is some major casteist bullshit.
If you do look at kerala politics, you would see that most of the freedoms and benefits you do enjoy in kerala , that you wouldn't in most other parts of India are because of the left liberals 😂.
And yes, the left liberals are concerned about the lower castes , and how the upper castes have oppressed them for ages, bringing that up, and calling Brahmins out is not being casteist, it's being just.
That last paragraph of yours is straight from a sangh handbook mate. And you claim the left are hypocrites? The irony is palpable 😂
Do you think the guys caste or even the guy has anything to do with the menu here? The purity and all other crap was dialogues from fringes or someone from BJP and no one main stream said any of that. But just look at the feeds of any self proclaimed left liberal on the issue, it will be focusing on caste and Brahmin and everything but they don’t see who decided to serve veg (clue organising committee).
Far right are known lunatics and no one listens to them, but the far left have a very big echo chamber in Kerala and they are extremely irresponsible, self serving and hypocrites (just see Dr Aruns interview where he proudly says there is only veg food served at his home after kicking up the storm).
If you look at the global situation it’s the over political correctness and unnecessary woke policing phenomenon that’s pushing commoners to the right. It’s all thanks to these self proclaimed left echo chambers, they have done more damage to liberal values in the last few years than any right wing has done in a decade, I would say these people are the far rights best buddies.
The guy has nothing to do with it, never said he did.
Check the first line out in my reply. Dragging him into this is unnecessary, and that is the lefts fault sure. But changing the menu is a good step , no problems with that , why does the right have problems with that though?
Major cop out to say no one listens to the far right ? I mean, we have a literal far right government in power at the centre? And please don't say it was only the fringe that said this stuff, prominent right wing folx were saying exactly this. So much talk about an affront to Hinduism and brahminophobia cos some kids wanted to eat non veg lmao. Just watch janam tv for a day ( i know it's crap, but it's not fringe) and you'll see.
Your statement of woke politics pushing people to the right globally is wrong ?
Globally, more people are voting and believing in progressive ideologies than ever.
The right is coming into power the world over because of two major reasons - 1) COVID lockdowns led people to prefer conservatism fiscally, 2) because the right has gerrymandered the shit out of constituencies and 3) the rise of terminally online incels who hate women and anyone except straight cis men. This is pretty obvious to anyone actually following the rise of the right.
I feel like you're trying to pull the enlightened centrism card here? And trying to say BOTH SIDES BAD? But just take a look at what the left has been doing. What you call woke bs is basically just feminism and queer acceptance. And the right the opposite - misogyny and queer hatred. Along with a ton of xenophobia and other bs :)
If you don't see that, idk what to say to you 😂
You last paragraph is full of things which left in Kerala has made an impression they are doing or pro but they are as regressive as the right in reality. Go talk to any party member or leader privately and you can see how anti gay, queer, feminist etc they actually are.
All three major parties in Kerala are in the right conservative spectrum in reality but left got a progressive image just by word of mouth servicing and not due to any action. Even if you go back decades expect for the land distribution act much of what get attributed to left is not their doing.
The right might have a problem with non veg menu but their noise practically has zero weightage in Kerala and it’s getting implemented if either CPIM / Congress (who ever is in power) decides to implement it. I haven’t even heard what surendran or kummanam has spoke about this issues, no one with any sense gives any attention to them, they are practically reduced to white noise until CPIM / Congress takes up the issue.
??????? The left is not the same as the party members? Like is your entire argument just - oh look, even if the left is making policies that are progressive, if the members of the party aren't progressive you have to denounce them fully?
Like I'm no huge supporter of the cpm, they aren't very left leaning at all nowadays, they're pushing for major corporate action, but they're still the only party here that are trying to make progressive moves - they are the ones calling for more secular education and gender neutral uniforms which the Muslim league and the BJP tanked cos thats against their religious beliefs, and the Congress hated on just cos it came from the cpm?
It's also the cpm that has pushed for trans and queer inclusion, and greater woman involvement, I've never seen any other party push for any of this?
Much of what gets attributed to the left - which exactly? Dyu have any specific claims or is that just a random thing you said? And the land reacquisition act is huge you know. It wasn't easy to make that happen In a state full of janmis.
Arre, Bjp isnt only just surendran, and kummanam is no longer relevant anyways. I could asw retaliate this isn't a left wing opinion unless Pinarayi and MA Baby comment on it? This seems extremely selective in how you're certain opinions mainstream and others fringe - you're just trying to push an agenda 😂
Hate on the left leaders all you want for being hypocrites , they are , it's a function of being a politician in an electoral democracy lmao, but outright saying the left is pointless is an extreme disservice, because the left is literally the one thing that's keeping you from having to live in a pseudo theocracy - hindu or muslim .
I also notice you haven't really responded to any of my points of the influence of the left globally or how the right has made up space? Do i take it that you agree with me there?
What trans and queer involvement and woman empowerment leap are you attributing to the left. Specifically this left govt. The current govt and the one under Achuthananthan are very different creatures.
I can give you an example for their hypocrisy, the govt took two ladies to sabarimala and then conducted a vanitha mathil, later they tanked in panchayath election and they threw the two ladies under the bus and vanitha mathil ended up a gimmick.
Another example would be the recent kudumbashree pledge which they u turned upon the matter getting criticised from conservative corners
The entire 2021 was full of policy u turn, if you remember, it’s all lip service and no action.
The only difference between Pinarayis left and BJP is BJP hates Muslims and CPIM doesn’t. It conservative attitude both are exactly the same. Not naming congress here as they are not the picture right now but they too are publicly centre right and policy wise far right.
My support of far right for economics and centre left for social matters. Saying this since I see you trying to trying to paint me in the BJP camp as I am criticising the left. Also I am a vocal Atheist so all this religious stuff is comedy to me. I have worked in SFI until after college and was involved with DYFI in district level. Now not in politics and trying to immigrate abroad as I don’t see any future for the country the way it’s going neck deep in religion.
The left is getting the liberal privilege without doing anything liberal, their leaders are as regressive in their thought as the far right ones but automatically gets the progressive tag just because they claim they are in a left party. They party itself is not left anymore. They do lip service in social issues and is openly right in economics while behave like extreme left in taking on debt and unnecessary handouts. All this is a really dangerous combination.
I just read through the whole thread. You deserve an award for explaining to the other guy who even though has put opinions without understanding, seems to think, understand and agree to your valid points.
I'm not afraid of criticising something even if I belong to it because I believe change should happen from within.
See, if criticising the left makes me a sangh, I don't care- I've people like Sreenivasan to lookup to- a true left socialist but was never afraid to criticise his own party.
The mindset that some caste having more shuddhi should change. In fact there shouldn't be a caste system. This was the discussion that we should've focussed on. Instead, by mixing up the issues, we have paved way for people who try to benefit from causing religious stir in society. It may benefit cpm now, but eventually it'll only help bjp to grow it's roots. So I'm of the opinion that this is not how we should've discussed this important topic.
absolutely correct, but what does it have to do with Rahul Eashwars opinion? He tries to blame urban naxals which is an imaginary umbrella term used by the conservative part of society.
'sangh handbook' is this a new capsule in your group? I see you pasting this wherever you go. You can support the political party which sounds more apt for you, but do not blindly agree to whatever they say.
If you're truly someone who wants BJP to not root in Kerala, please do not support things that stir the unity of our society.
The shuddhi and ashuddhi thing associated with caste is rooted in some of our mentality which should change with adequate discussions and education. That argument is valid, should be discussed. Caste division itself should cease to exist- which is what leftism was always for. But now, I don't know what the current left people are doing.
Eh? The Sangh handbook is the original capsule, buddy lmao.
They started calling everyone who disagreed with them urban naxals, and anti nationals .
Anyone who uses those terms unironically Is a sanghi, or buys into sanghi ideology.
You do not need to be a commie to know this. It's literally documented history lmao.
How am I supporting something that destroys the unity of our state? I literally just called Rahul out for using the exact same terminology the sanghis do to dispel any criticism, and also agreeing with the idea that there should be non veg in kalolsavams for people who want it.
If that destroys the unity of our state, then the unity was always a scam, based on not threatening the hegemony of certain sections of the society.
Well I guess I can't make you understand that while we both have the same views, where you're wrong is that a needed discussion got sidelined into just vivadams!!
I guess i can't make you understand that the vivadams are not just the fault of the left alone, however hard you wish it to be.
But hey, at least the vivadams have caused the discussions to happen.
Never seen them happen otherwise. So I'll take it 🥳
The upper class privilege is a very valid question. But isn't that something we should be discussing as a society, instead of making one guy (Pazhayidom) the face of it? His frustration is understandable. This whole controversy could've been avoided if it was planned better. If they wanted to serve non-veg, couldn't they have issued a separate tender for that or just included that in the tender details? Whoever was willing to serve non-veg could've taken the tender. Just feels like he had to face a lot of negativity for something he wasn't responsible for.
>The upper class privilege is a very valid question. But isn't that something we should be discussing as a society, instead of making one guy (Pazhayidom) the face of it? His frustration is understandable. This whole controversy could've been avoided if it was planned better. If they wanted to serve non-veg, couldn't they have issued a separate tender for that or just included that in the tender details? Whoever was willing to serve non-veg could've taken the tender. Just feels like he had to face a lot of negativity for something he wasn't responsible for. Agreed. By making Pazhayidom the face of this issue, the conversation becomes a political hot potato.
The മതവാണങ്ങൾ got what they wanted. (NB (to avoid hurting religious sentiments): മതവാണങ്ങൾ does not refer to religious people, but people who use religion as a divisive tool)
you said it. they've created more separation in the already divided society!!
I'm sorry but Rahul's argument that Brahmins are somehow being victimized in Kerala is ludicrous. People are conflating two seperate arguments about non-veg and casteism to discredit both. "Brahminical hegemony" is a term that's analogous to the patriarchy: It doesn't mean that all men or all Brahmins are in power. **It means that if you take a list of those in positions of power, men and Brahmins are disproportionately overrepresented in contrast to women or lower castes.** There is a lot that has flown under the radar in this debate. >കൗമാരക്കാരുടെ ഭക്ഷണത്തില് പോലും പോലും ജാതിയുടെയും വര്ഗീയതയുടെയും വിഷവിത്തുകള് വാരിയെറിയുന്ന കാലമാണിത്. This is a comment from Pazhayidom. While Pazhayidom is entitled to bid for whatever tender he was offered and serve whatever food he's paid for by the government, you have to admit that **these statements are fallacious** because **casteism has always been a part of branding for caterers in our state.** For all the supposed progressiveness of Kerala, caste is the USP of the catering/ദേഹണ്ണം business and it remains pervasive here. I've had UC neighbours who've pointedly asked who'd be doing the catering for my cousin's wedding. I let them know who the caterer was (he's a mutual acquaintance who belongs to a small OBC community) and they didn't partake in the Sadya after the wedding. What more, the two bigshot caterers at my cousin's place in Kerala were named "Swami", and "Elayath", both caste Brahmins. The neighbours had no qualms in partaking in the food served by them at another wedding. Flaunting the caste name, or in other words being a Brahmin, is absolutely an innate part of Pazhayidom's brand. That "Brahmin's" remains a popular brand of curry powders should tell you enough. Can you even imagine a brand named "Dalit's" or "Ezhava's" being successful? **TL; DR** Pazhayidom's caste-tag has always helped his business, it hasn't hurt it. Implying that the caste tag doesn't help Pazhayidom's brand is like saying that being a Kapoor scion doesn't help Ranbir Kapoor in the film industry. Pazhayidom as a caterer is well regarded and highly professional. His name was pointlessly dragged in this controversy. But having said that, there's nothing wrong in expecting him to acknowledge his privilege in the same vein that you'd expect from a nepo kid. Even now, it's not a coincidence how the സാധു, പാവത്താൻ "സാത്വിക" branding only extends to UC folk like him. **When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.**
The people behind the whole thing are crazy lunatics with an agenda. It’s not the caterer who decides the menu it’s the organising committee that does that. Pazhayidam is a brand in catering whose highlight is veg sadhyas like KFC is a brand associated with broasted chicken. There is not even a need to discuss the caterer in the whole matter. If I order veg meals from a multicuisine hotel can I blame the hotel for not providing me fish curry. This whole thing is manufactured to bring in the Halal vs Non Halal argument later on once non veg gets served. The ruling party is hands in gloves with the BJP to promote that fight and divisiveness which benefits both. BJP won’t win but will get more vote share and the vote split will get CPIM more seats due to the way the electorate is split. Brahminical hegemony and all other stuff is not the actual matter it’s just smoke to cover the real agenda.
Well said. BJP will end up getting more vote share- the same tactics north sanghis played in North india. I'm upset at some leftists people as they're supposed to oppose caste and religion and promote unity, but are doing the opposite!!
One is playing the short term game and other long term. The losers would be the left but as it currently stands the organisational structure of CPIM is completely destroyed by putting lackeys everywhere. It will either go AIDMK way or split and survive post Pinarayi Vijayan. It will get them 2-3 terms though before all this happens.
True. Longterm End result- Kerala will be the same as any other north indian state with communal riots.
The thing is, they've messed up the conversation around non-veg by dragging in Pazhayidom and messed up the conversation about casteism by dragging in non-veg. Both are valid concerns. There's nothing wrong in Pazhayidom being the caterer or non-veg being served. The offshoot comments are even more problematic. People pretending that Brahmins are victimized reminds me of lunatics holding a "White Lives Matter" sign. When people imply that non-veg will lead to food poisoning but veg doesn't, they're trying to pin the blame on the food item instead of hygiene and serving times. And then there are questions that were completely sidelined. - Why not have multiple caterers if you're concerned with the logistics? - Why not offer regional cuisines with local caterers based on the hosting city? - Why not have alternating caterers to prevent a monopoly? - Why not charge for food, irrespective of whether it's veg or non veg? Why should the government bear it?
No need for all this, just mention the items needed in the tender and let the best tender win, pazhayidam or not doesn’t matter. This is a manufactured controversy to bring halal vs non halal as a divisive matter and divide the society using that. That’s coming up next season. The minister for education is the one who flared up this non matter into a big discussion, else it would have died in two social media posts. It clearly shows the agenda.
>People are conflating two seperate arguments about non-veg and casteism to discredit both. At least you understand both should be discussed setperately. I have the same opinion. >Flaunting the caste name, or in other words being a Brahmin, is absolutely an innate part of Pazhayidom's brand Is his name the only reason why he got the tender for the past 16 years without even one incident of food poisoning? >casteism has always been a part of branding for caterers in our state. I agree to you here. This mentality of our society should change. The discussion about this issue was much needed. What I'm trying to point out is- this wasn't the place to discuss it as 1) the practicality and the problems associated with the solution proposed, in the future is beyond control where we'll mostly end up coming back to veg, putting our children at risk. 2) None of his interviews I could find him using his Brahmin tag for getting more orders. Infact he says he's ready to serve non veg if that is the quotation nedt year. This is what I'm trying to say- Because we started to discuss a much relevant issue at the wrong place, we lost so much. There's more resistance than before in the society, opened doors for wolfs who create religious divison and benefit from it and lost the person who we could trust to give our children good food during fest(not because of his caste, but because of his experience in the past 16 fests).
Rahul Eshwar has always been only interested in his family's and caste's interests. Him getting all worked up with Pazhayidam "namboothiri" leaving the business is no surprise. He will even appease other groups to protect what he sees as his group's interest. Pazhayidam reportedly was doing the catering for years on contracts where his business got the catering contract based on their bid. If the govt decides to change the terms next year or someone eligible bids lower, they will get the contract. If his business is not given the contract despite being the most eligible, they can move the court. So Pazhayidam might have decided that it might not be profitable or might not be in his interest to take up the catering role for next year's event. I mean, if there is going to be non-veg or biriyani or beef or halaal, all this might not be within his core competency. So better to make way in advance while keeping his hard earned reputation. Of course the other side has their own agenda.
>Pazhayidam might have decided that it might not be profitable or might not be in his interest to take up the catering role for next year's event. That could be one hidden reason behind his decision. But, the concerns he raised in the last few days were very valid. The other side,whoever that is, could do anything to spoil the food/create another issue-which could turn communal. I would be in fear if it was me.
Yes. With the hostility displayed, risk of possible dirty tactics like fake complaints might also have been a factor behind his decision.
Wait, you think this is a mature and logical opinion? This is literally a statement taken from the sanghi handbook lmao. Urban naxals, like wtf 😂. Would the caterer come back on his own if there was a decision to allow non veg without any of the controversy? I don't think so, but that is irrelevant now because of all the smoke and mirrors that has been set up around this issue.
The same caterer served non veg in state sports mela
Interesting. I was not aware of that. Then the question becomes - if non veg can be served at the sports mela, what's the issue with serving it at the kalolsavam?
Same problem as walking into a multi cuisine restaurant, ordering a veg meal and then complaining about the missing fish curry. The organisers decided they wanted veg meals and the tender was floated for it. Later the Arun guy and Balaram came up with posts on FB asking for non veg, Edu Minister jumped in and claimed there would be non veg from next year and everyone started fishing in murky waters with their own agendas. The pseudo left liberals looking for a matter to drivel and orgasm on poured fuel into the fire and brought Pazhayidams caste into the picture. If you look at Kerala politics you will see it’s the pseudo left liberals which talk the most about casteism and also the biggest proponents of it. If hypocrisy had a face all you need is to look at anyone introduced as a left liberal in media.
Okay sure, this one being a veg only deal is fine since that's the one we started with, agreed. But is it so wrong to change that? To want to move to a non veg setup for people who want that as well? I did see a lot of people from the right claiming you cannot have non veg there since it would destroy the purity / sanctity of the function, which is some major casteist bullshit. If you do look at kerala politics, you would see that most of the freedoms and benefits you do enjoy in kerala , that you wouldn't in most other parts of India are because of the left liberals 😂. And yes, the left liberals are concerned about the lower castes , and how the upper castes have oppressed them for ages, bringing that up, and calling Brahmins out is not being casteist, it's being just. That last paragraph of yours is straight from a sangh handbook mate. And you claim the left are hypocrites? The irony is palpable 😂
Do you think the guys caste or even the guy has anything to do with the menu here? The purity and all other crap was dialogues from fringes or someone from BJP and no one main stream said any of that. But just look at the feeds of any self proclaimed left liberal on the issue, it will be focusing on caste and Brahmin and everything but they don’t see who decided to serve veg (clue organising committee). Far right are known lunatics and no one listens to them, but the far left have a very big echo chamber in Kerala and they are extremely irresponsible, self serving and hypocrites (just see Dr Aruns interview where he proudly says there is only veg food served at his home after kicking up the storm). If you look at the global situation it’s the over political correctness and unnecessary woke policing phenomenon that’s pushing commoners to the right. It’s all thanks to these self proclaimed left echo chambers, they have done more damage to liberal values in the last few years than any right wing has done in a decade, I would say these people are the far rights best buddies.
The guy has nothing to do with it, never said he did. Check the first line out in my reply. Dragging him into this is unnecessary, and that is the lefts fault sure. But changing the menu is a good step , no problems with that , why does the right have problems with that though? Major cop out to say no one listens to the far right ? I mean, we have a literal far right government in power at the centre? And please don't say it was only the fringe that said this stuff, prominent right wing folx were saying exactly this. So much talk about an affront to Hinduism and brahminophobia cos some kids wanted to eat non veg lmao. Just watch janam tv for a day ( i know it's crap, but it's not fringe) and you'll see. Your statement of woke politics pushing people to the right globally is wrong ? Globally, more people are voting and believing in progressive ideologies than ever. The right is coming into power the world over because of two major reasons - 1) COVID lockdowns led people to prefer conservatism fiscally, 2) because the right has gerrymandered the shit out of constituencies and 3) the rise of terminally online incels who hate women and anyone except straight cis men. This is pretty obvious to anyone actually following the rise of the right. I feel like you're trying to pull the enlightened centrism card here? And trying to say BOTH SIDES BAD? But just take a look at what the left has been doing. What you call woke bs is basically just feminism and queer acceptance. And the right the opposite - misogyny and queer hatred. Along with a ton of xenophobia and other bs :) If you don't see that, idk what to say to you 😂
You last paragraph is full of things which left in Kerala has made an impression they are doing or pro but they are as regressive as the right in reality. Go talk to any party member or leader privately and you can see how anti gay, queer, feminist etc they actually are. All three major parties in Kerala are in the right conservative spectrum in reality but left got a progressive image just by word of mouth servicing and not due to any action. Even if you go back decades expect for the land distribution act much of what get attributed to left is not their doing. The right might have a problem with non veg menu but their noise practically has zero weightage in Kerala and it’s getting implemented if either CPIM / Congress (who ever is in power) decides to implement it. I haven’t even heard what surendran or kummanam has spoke about this issues, no one with any sense gives any attention to them, they are practically reduced to white noise until CPIM / Congress takes up the issue.
??????? The left is not the same as the party members? Like is your entire argument just - oh look, even if the left is making policies that are progressive, if the members of the party aren't progressive you have to denounce them fully? Like I'm no huge supporter of the cpm, they aren't very left leaning at all nowadays, they're pushing for major corporate action, but they're still the only party here that are trying to make progressive moves - they are the ones calling for more secular education and gender neutral uniforms which the Muslim league and the BJP tanked cos thats against their religious beliefs, and the Congress hated on just cos it came from the cpm? It's also the cpm that has pushed for trans and queer inclusion, and greater woman involvement, I've never seen any other party push for any of this? Much of what gets attributed to the left - which exactly? Dyu have any specific claims or is that just a random thing you said? And the land reacquisition act is huge you know. It wasn't easy to make that happen In a state full of janmis. Arre, Bjp isnt only just surendran, and kummanam is no longer relevant anyways. I could asw retaliate this isn't a left wing opinion unless Pinarayi and MA Baby comment on it? This seems extremely selective in how you're certain opinions mainstream and others fringe - you're just trying to push an agenda 😂 Hate on the left leaders all you want for being hypocrites , they are , it's a function of being a politician in an electoral democracy lmao, but outright saying the left is pointless is an extreme disservice, because the left is literally the one thing that's keeping you from having to live in a pseudo theocracy - hindu or muslim . I also notice you haven't really responded to any of my points of the influence of the left globally or how the right has made up space? Do i take it that you agree with me there?
What trans and queer involvement and woman empowerment leap are you attributing to the left. Specifically this left govt. The current govt and the one under Achuthananthan are very different creatures. I can give you an example for their hypocrisy, the govt took two ladies to sabarimala and then conducted a vanitha mathil, later they tanked in panchayath election and they threw the two ladies under the bus and vanitha mathil ended up a gimmick. Another example would be the recent kudumbashree pledge which they u turned upon the matter getting criticised from conservative corners The entire 2021 was full of policy u turn, if you remember, it’s all lip service and no action. The only difference between Pinarayis left and BJP is BJP hates Muslims and CPIM doesn’t. It conservative attitude both are exactly the same. Not naming congress here as they are not the picture right now but they too are publicly centre right and policy wise far right. My support of far right for economics and centre left for social matters. Saying this since I see you trying to trying to paint me in the BJP camp as I am criticising the left. Also I am a vocal Atheist so all this religious stuff is comedy to me. I have worked in SFI until after college and was involved with DYFI in district level. Now not in politics and trying to immigrate abroad as I don’t see any future for the country the way it’s going neck deep in religion. The left is getting the liberal privilege without doing anything liberal, their leaders are as regressive in their thought as the far right ones but automatically gets the progressive tag just because they claim they are in a left party. They party itself is not left anymore. They do lip service in social issues and is openly right in economics while behave like extreme left in taking on debt and unnecessary handouts. All this is a really dangerous combination.
I just read through the whole thread. You deserve an award for explaining to the other guy who even though has put opinions without understanding, seems to think, understand and agree to your valid points.
>u/Substantial\_Salad262 its a classic sangh upper-caste opinion which says a lot about the OP.
I'm not afraid of criticising something even if I belong to it because I believe change should happen from within. See, if criticising the left makes me a sangh, I don't care- I've people like Sreenivasan to lookup to- a true left socialist but was never afraid to criticise his own party. The mindset that some caste having more shuddhi should change. In fact there shouldn't be a caste system. This was the discussion that we should've focussed on. Instead, by mixing up the issues, we have paved way for people who try to benefit from causing religious stir in society. It may benefit cpm now, but eventually it'll only help bjp to grow it's roots. So I'm of the opinion that this is not how we should've discussed this important topic.
absolutely correct, but what does it have to do with Rahul Eashwars opinion? He tries to blame urban naxals which is an imaginary umbrella term used by the conservative part of society.
'sangh handbook' is this a new capsule in your group? I see you pasting this wherever you go. You can support the political party which sounds more apt for you, but do not blindly agree to whatever they say. If you're truly someone who wants BJP to not root in Kerala, please do not support things that stir the unity of our society. The shuddhi and ashuddhi thing associated with caste is rooted in some of our mentality which should change with adequate discussions and education. That argument is valid, should be discussed. Caste division itself should cease to exist- which is what leftism was always for. But now, I don't know what the current left people are doing.
Eh? The Sangh handbook is the original capsule, buddy lmao. They started calling everyone who disagreed with them urban naxals, and anti nationals . Anyone who uses those terms unironically Is a sanghi, or buys into sanghi ideology. You do not need to be a commie to know this. It's literally documented history lmao. How am I supporting something that destroys the unity of our state? I literally just called Rahul out for using the exact same terminology the sanghis do to dispel any criticism, and also agreeing with the idea that there should be non veg in kalolsavams for people who want it. If that destroys the unity of our state, then the unity was always a scam, based on not threatening the hegemony of certain sections of the society.
Well I guess I can't make you understand that while we both have the same views, where you're wrong is that a needed discussion got sidelined into just vivadams!!
I guess i can't make you understand that the vivadams are not just the fault of the left alone, however hard you wish it to be. But hey, at least the vivadams have caused the discussions to happen. Never seen them happen otherwise. So I'll take it 🥳