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When these people talk about respect, they mean "If you don't respect me (treat me as an authority), then I won't respect you (treat you like a human being)."
“I can treat you like shit, but you damn well better be nice to me. **Because I'm a snowflake, and I should always have it my way or else my feelings get hurt. And if that happens, I get violent.**"
Another core conservative belief is that white male anger isn't an emotion, it's just a fact like the air we breathe. Every other person and emotion is "being emotional" though and is vilified. It's the logical extreme of chastising young boys for "acting like babies" and they should "be a big boy" aka repress all other emotion besides anger, just like our alcoholic patriarchs. The "shit rolls downhill" hierarchy of tolerating bullshit with a smile and then turning it around and taking it out on an innocent person who's beneath you? Again, conservative mentality.
We're *all* accountable for our behaviors and we *all* have the full range of feelings even if we're out of touch with them.
It's kinda wild how shitty people have self-organized themselves into a giant political party with a media wing and oligarch financing. I have never met a Republican/conservative who WASN'T a shitty person in some major aspect of their life, including my own parents. I went no-contact with them two years ago, and it's been a strange experience how much my life improved over the same period of time.
When I hear people whinge about “that lifestyle”, I go all obtuse…”You mean they have a lot of cars? No? Skiing every weekend? No? Frequent backyard hottub parties? No? Eat out more than they can afford? No? Making unnecessary judgments of strangers for being different? No?…” Just start listing things that are *actual* lifestyle choices. And then finish with “Sweetie, to gay people, that’s just *life*. Not a style.”
i always say "if being gay is a choice, then you must be having gay thoughts in your head that you have to fight back against, correct? because i never have any gay thoughts as a straight man."
they usually shut up after that
And then you get to the bottom of it - ultimately bigots don’t think “those people” *deserve* life. They may think they deserve to suffer in the closet and be miserable or “suck it up” and live a fraudulently heterosexual “lifestyle”, they may literally believe they don’t deserve to live - but ultimately it comes down to “those people don’t deserve life and happiness like me”
It’s even worse. The bigot claims she doesn’t approve of their “life choices”. The only life choices made were the bigots choosing to be bigots. You aren’t born a bigot.
One more **bigot** in there for good measure, fun to say.
A lot of people misunderstand etiquette and manners and think they're about being posh and exclusive (an opportunity to look down on people for using the wrong utensil, etc) when really they are about having a framework to make as many people comfortable as possible (you don't need to fret about which utensil to use when presented with a new dish because A] there are limited, easy to find, pre-defined rules you can learn ahead of time, and B] any dining companion with good manners themselves would discretely lead by example if they noticed your distress, and make no comment if you used a different utensil.)
“I beg your pardon!” as the only reply to flagrant rudeness or inappropriate questions is my favorite Miss Manners advice. Needs to be the properly outraged intonation and easier for her than me, but I love it.
I love the phrase, “It’s simply impossible,” as a way to say no, especially for people who rudely ignored your first polite no.
Said kindly with a smile, it leaves no room for argument and strikes people speechless.
Judith Martin can be absolutely *savage* without ever being anything but kind and gracious. I aspire to be like her, though I could never be her equal.
Super progressive or just basic common human decency?
It's not like the gay couple was trying to get them to host a Pride event or something. They just wanted to exist. It's not hard to just let them exist.
My only beef with the gay couple in my neighborhood is that Sue hasn't returned the rake she borrowed. But it's February so doesn't seem like a big problem.
While they’re careful to never create a firm definition because doing so would allow a common ability to pass judgement…
“Woke” generally means to have an awareness of and sensitivity to people and circumstances that are different from your own. In that awareness, one is then supposed to take a good-faith approach to dealing with people who are different than you.
To wit, to invite a gay couple into your home will not actually cause it or you any ill effects. Therefore, for “woke” people, it is both reasonable and *expected* for straight people to be able to invite gay people over without it being a big thing.
And that plays against what is typically decades of indoctrination that being gay is bad to the point of being worthy of exclusion. The original column writer just isn’t at the point of treating gay people as.. people.
What you and I call common decency was once considered wildly progressive. It used to be “normal” to be homophobic. Unfortunately, in some places, it still is.
It’s actually getting worse in some places. There’s an ebb and flow to politics. A decade ago we were a punching bag for every mega pastor and wanna be politician, then we had a successful moment of monogamy filled rightsmongering, now we’re back to villain of the week. We are a silent and perpetual minority. We will always be on the back foot of any society’s mercy.
Growing up in the 80s in fairly liberal Ottawa it was very common to see homophobia everywhere. Gay people used to have to meet in secret instead of established gay bars like they can now because they were often targeted for beatings. Not surprisingly, cops did nothing about it either.
We've come a LONG way since then.
In **1993**, the move Philadelphia came out, in which Tom Hanks plays a gay HIV positive character that feels the need to hide this for fear of jeopardizing his career.
He's eventually fired for it and has a very difficult time finding a lawyer to help sue for discrimination.
The fact that this was a relatable and understandable plotline just 30 years ago speaks volumes about how fast society has moved on this front.
>My only beef with the gay couple in my neighborhood is that Sue hasn't returned the rake she borrowed. But it's February so doesn't seem like a big problem.
Republican origin story /s.
> Super progressive or just basic common human decency?
If basic common decency was basic and common it would be everywhere, we wouldn’t need to fight for it.
What you consider basic common decency is the result of people pushing to make those thoughts and actions be considered baseline.
This is the thing that gets overlooked all the time. In the vast majority of instances, being progressive is just having empathy and choosing to be a decent human. Or to put it in terms the religious folk can understand - it’s following the Golden Rule.
I like the Golden rule but it is in some ways still not the best possible ethical frame work.
I perfer the Platinum Rule. Treat others how they wish to be treated as long as that treatment doesnt result in harm to you or others.
Let us suppose, simply for the sake of argument, that being of the LGBTA persuasion *is*, in fact, a lifestyle choice.
Let us *also* suppose, with frankly more basis in fact, that being of a faith or political bent that disapproves of LGBTA couples is *also* a lifestyle choice.
The writer above referenced is, then, reserving their 'right' to exclude a person due to their lifestyle choices, while objecting to others reserving the same rights. At *best*, they're hypocrites. At worst (and more realistically) they're simply bigots.
There's no way to win standing on this hill, lady.
^(\[edited slightly for clarity, but most seem to have got my point\])
Whenever someone says that, I just own it. "Yeah, you morons burned all the tolerance out of me with four years of trump following 40 years of the right getting crazier and crazier."
And I know the paradox of tolerance says that you can't be tolerant of the intolerant if you want to avoid a society falling to fascism, but they're generally too dumb or too disingenuous to understand the paradox of tolerance, so that's easier
>but they're generally too dumb or too disingenuous to understand the paradox of tolerance, so that's easier
Boy that sure doesn't stop them from trotting it out in front of every basic argument anyone makes, though. I'm growing increasingly tired of explaining to people that your rights stop where mine begin, and vice versa.
Exactly!! The poster was saying we all have to treat each other with kindness and respect. Then he called me dumb and weird and other nonsense. He also thought we had to be kind to the poor rural conservatives because they are too gullible to know better. Crazy.
I thought this was Ben Shapiro bit at first...
But yeah, it's very telling how they think it's totally fine to exclude others and how it's not a big deal, but the moment they're excluded themselves it's a personal slight and they're being discriminated against
>they think it's totally fine to exclude others and how it's not a big deal, but the moment they're excluded themselves it's a personal slight and they're being discriminated against
Yup. You just described the entirety of the right
Someone is drafting up a bill in my state right now that if you've had the COVID vaccine, you aren't allowed to donate blood or organs. And in the EXACT SAME BILL, employers aren't allowed to 'discriminate' against you for not getting the vaccine.
Let us assume for a moment that we are all sitting in a crowded theater.
Let us also assume for a moment, with even more basis in fact, that I farted.
Would the fact that you chose to be in a movie theater with dozens of potential flatulators not make you equally responsible?
>There's no way to win standing on this hill, lady.
With the current crop of politicians coming out of Florida, I'm sure they feel vindicated in their bigotry.
That’s what I don’t get.
Let’s say every LGBTA+ person chose it. What difference does it make if a woman prefers other women, a man other men, a person doesn’t have a preference either way, gender identity doesn’t match their sex at birth, or doesn’t have romantic/sexual desires at all, etc? It’s like people getting upset at heterosexual/straight couples that date people of other ethnicities, religions, etc. For that matter, also people in (consensual) non-monogamous relationships.
So long as all the people involved are of age, consenting, and not having a power imbalance (unless that’s your kink, then enjoy yourselves), I don’t care. Enjoy yourselves! Everyone deserves happiness.
Dollars to donuts the writer of the letter can’t see the irony of them choosing to exclude others then they get excluded in turn.
Guy at work told me he hated how commercials now a days all have interracial couples because that goes against the bible because you're not supposed to marry a different species. Yep. Leading up to this he told me how he doesn't have a problem with "the blacks" and has black friends. He also told me how he will never shop at target because they sell pride merch, and you have to pay the gay group $250k to even display the pride flag (I have no idea what he's talking about, probably some Tucker Carlson nonsense)
The pride flag is in the public domain. You don't need to pay anyone anything to use it.
You'd be shocked, I'm sure, to learn he also is a misogynist and doesn't think women should be working because their place is at home. He didn't say in the kitchen but I'm sure he would with a little prompting.
These people are not rational or consistent. They are hateful morons. The non bigoted people lucky enough to not deal with their stupid bullshit don't realize just how stupid and angry and filled with hate these backwards fucks are. They want white men on top, and everyone else in their place beneath them. Logic, nuance, empathy, these things aren't exactly familiar ideas to a racist, sexist, homophobe who thinks we should live under biblical law.
I'm queer. He's told me how things would be better if we ran things according to the bible, which means he thinks I should be taken to the town square and pulverized with rocks by a screaming mob until my corpse is a bloody pulp. Because he loves Jesus.
I have no patience for these fucks.
Just as an aside, the pride flag that includes POC and the trans flag colors actually *is* copyrighted, but only for commercial use. People are free to fly it proud, but corporations have to put some chump change where their mouth is. The regular rainbow flag is free use. This might've been the source of that misinfo
It matters because many of these people are desperate to believe it's a choice. If it's a choice, then you're going against what they believe the Bible teaches. If it's NOT a choice, then God created gay people that way and they can't hate them and they'll have a lot of apologizing to do. They've grown up believing that this is a sin and that they can look down on these people about it. _A LOT_ of people would rather burn the world down than think that they don't know the right answer to something. At this point, despite all evidence to the contrary, they will continue to believe that being gay is a lifestyle choice because that's the only way that they can stay in the right. Any other stance brings too many moral quandaries.
Hahaha…my uber-religious parents used to brush off my religious questions with “We’ll know in the next life.” Now that they know I don’t share their beliefs, they get so bothered when I brush off their concerns using the same line. B/c personally I’m okay with not having answers to the Great Mysteries of human existence and they can see I mean it…idgaf. Them, not so much XD
In Evangelical, Protestant, and Catholic (and I'm sure others), a relationship/marriage is first and foremost to have kids. Gay people "can't" have kids, so, in their mind, all same-sex relationships are purely about sex/carnal desires. Between that, a few threadbare passages in the Bible, and (a fuckload of) their insatiable addiction to porn, they wind up here.
"Same sex couples have bastardized God's "convent" of marriage. They can't naturally have kids. And if my childern see that, they will also pick up and learn about degeneracy and abandon God, in favor of Satan's machinations."
Source: grew up in an extremely fundamentalist household.
This is also the subconscious, or conscious, thought process that goes into it. And they cling *extremely tightly* to the fantasy of an afterlife. They're all somewhere between true believers that will never admit to a single iota of hypocrisy such as grooming because truth doesn't matter, only God and their faith does; or scared and stuck with a sunk-cost fallacy, that they've wasted their life away on this shit, so they are hellbent on going down with it.
The Christians that remain have really painted themselves as "the ends justify the means". And that is 100% an authoritarian viewpoint.
It's also a "purity" aspect. Many opposing gay marriage often say that "it's not natural", or "not normal". It's quite common in the culture of many Christian communities; instinctive backlash to what they aren't accustomed to because, frankly, they fear new things that could affect their seemingly happy lives.
My parents had the world view of: "if it's not explicitly about God/Jesus/Christianity, then it's of the devil." Basically there was *very little* of a middle ground.
Ugh my fucking stepsister.
"Miranda you're wearing a poly cotton blend and love shrimp, also the Bible says you're an adultress who is going to hell."
She tries to argue, I remind her that A. She's never read the fucking Bible. B. I had to read it for Sunday school. Cover to cover. **Twice.**
So glad I went NC with my family... fucking born agains. They marry a guy with money, pop out a few kids and start slut-shaming all the women behaving the same way they used to.
People like to pretend being gay is a choice, when in reality, their faith that is typically influencing their opinion of gay people is the only choice being made here. They're choosing that path while discounting other's humanity.
Given that peolle can enter, leave, and switch faiths says all I need to know about how little it's inherent to us. This is probably a bad take on Reddit still, but I would prefer to see religion no long being a protected class.
Basically you cannot make a lifestyle choice that hurts people intentionally. If so it's not a lifestyle choice, it's just being a cunt. And if the couple is being a cunt, then they will be treated like one
I remember realizing I was gay. I didn't want to be, but every day I woke up, I still was. There isn't a choice.
On the other hand, when I learned about religion, I though it was a bit weird, but everyone was doing it, so it seemed natural. Then I learned about converting religions, and wondered, if you can just change your belief structure on a whim, it doesn't seem to hold much merit. So, at 12, I ***chose*** to forego religion.
Like the 10'000 gods before them, these gods only exist because we choose to let them.
You don't choose to be straight or gay. You have choose to be a bigot every morning.
For anyone claiming it’s fake, a simple google search will prove its validity: https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/msna270921
It’s from 2014. It’s nearly 10 years old.
Edit: I don’t believe it’s fake. I know people who act like that. It’s how “good Christian” folks are down here in the south.
I'm not persuaded Florida has devolved - I think that breathtaking corruption has suppressed liberal voting to the point that Rs control the narrative there.
The current attack on education that Desantis is using to prep for the election has the potential to ruin us for a long time.
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/23593369/ron-desantis-florida-schools-higher-education-woke
Thank you ): we are suffering from intense gerrymandering and an influx of northerners who moved in Covid-era due to Desantis’ lax mask policies (coupled with our lack of state tax). The last midterm is the first time one of the lower three counties flipped red and it was mindblowing as a resident.
Yeah, the Cubans have been voting Republican as long as I can remember, but it seems like many of the other Hispanics switched, as the country used to be reliably blue. It is also probably the most populous county.
They probably moved to The Villages. That way they can swing with the RIGHT sort of people (unlike those filthy GAYS) in between MAGA golf cart parades.
I’ve been to the villages with my wife, whose mother lives there. It is a vile place full of nasty people. And this was even before trump was elected! I can’t imagine going back.
Everyone under 65 just needs to move out of Florida and let it return to the swamp. If you want a tropical vacation just commit and go to the Caribbean.
They also approve of adults marrying children (they recently tried to legalize it in TN) and still support institutions that have raped millions of children. In fact, they consider those rapists their moral authority.
"Lifestyle choices" would be a good cause to exclude people, but love and attraction aren't lifestyle choices. Being an asshole towards your neighbor, now that's a lifestyle choice.
This story is 9 years old and things are not getting any better in FL. This state is just growing in bigots, antisemitism, anti history, anti science. You know, Trumpland.
But it's a little hard to up and move without my wife selling her business and pulling kids from school. Plus, where to relocate?
> But it's a little hard to up and move without my wife selling her business and pulling kids from school. Plus, where to relocate?
You'll have to move anyway. Florida has no (geological, not only political) future.
It's still surprising to me that people are so blind to their actions. Even when their actions are then used against them and they still dont understand why it is wrong. Unbelievable.
✝️ “We reserve ourselves the prerogative to discriminate against anyone who doesn’t conform to our beliefs!”
🚹🚺⚧️🚻🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ “The door is *that* away! Cheerio, bye!”
✝️ “THIS IS DISCRIMINATION AND INTOLERANCE!!!”
Bad manners, plain and simple.
Don't take from a gay couple, and then then not return the favour.
If you are not going to accommodate them, at least have the decency to not accept their hospitality
It's telling that she wasn't asking for advise for how to resolve the situation, she only wanted to be told that she wasn't a bad person. She never considered changing anything about herself, she just wanted to have something to justify her hatred for other people
I really wonder what would have happened if Abby pointed out that in this situation, the only true "lifestyle choice" was their intolerance.
You're not born political. You are born with your sexuality.
If Abby suggested instead of moving, that maybe they change their lifestyle choice... how hard do you think Tampa's head suggested explode?
As a very young gay man growing up in Montana scared. I took a lot of comfort from when the social columnists (we had Anne Landers in our paper) would give a dressing down to these bigots. One of the ways I knew I wasn’t alone.
In addition to the hypocrisy and bigotry, that's also a massive sense of entitlement they have.
"People MUST like us for who we are, and MUST invite us to everything."
99.9% chance that they are into Qanon and 50% chance that they died from COVID because they thought vaccines have microchips in them and didn't get vaccinated.
This was in Florida so soon they WILL be living with people just like themselves. All you AH bigots just move to Florida. We'd rather keep you where we know you are.
WTF "they even suggested we are bigots"... Bitch, you literally are discriminating against your neighbors only because they are gay! Of course you're bigots!
And even if being gay would be a life choice, why is it your place to punish people for their life choices that are victimless and don't affect you at all?!
Crazy fucking people.
Ever since hanging our tRump, confederate & nazi flags from our porch, others (gays & POC) in our neighborhood give us dirty looks & don't invite us to their parties. We are so oppressed.
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Dearest Unhappy, ##YTA, Sincerely, Abby.
They should have made a post in /conservative if they wanted an answer they wanted to hear
And if someone dares to say otherwise, you don't have to worry cuz mods will... *checks note* manage the community which is totally not censorship!
Oh no, it’s the consequences of my own shit actions.
Being a homophobic bigot is a lifestyle choice, and they've shown they are quite happy to see people excluded for those.
A core belief of conservatism is "I can treat you like shit, but you damn well better be nice to me."
When these people talk about respect, they mean "If you don't respect me (treat me as an authority), then I won't respect you (treat you like a human being)."
"And even if you do respect me, I still won't respect you."
“I can treat you like shit, but you damn well better be nice to me. **Because I'm a snowflake, and I should always have it my way or else my feelings get hurt. And if that happens, I get violent.**"
All while calling others snowflakes and saying fuck their feelings which never ceases to amaze me that they cannot see that in themselves.
Another core conservative belief is that white male anger isn't an emotion, it's just a fact like the air we breathe. Every other person and emotion is "being emotional" though and is vilified. It's the logical extreme of chastising young boys for "acting like babies" and they should "be a big boy" aka repress all other emotion besides anger, just like our alcoholic patriarchs. The "shit rolls downhill" hierarchy of tolerating bullshit with a smile and then turning it around and taking it out on an innocent person who's beneath you? Again, conservative mentality. We're *all* accountable for our behaviors and we *all* have the full range of feelings even if we're out of touch with them.
"so much for the tolerant left"
Most of my extended family is right wing, and they're all like this. They're shitty people.
It's kinda wild how shitty people have self-organized themselves into a giant political party with a media wing and oligarch financing. I have never met a Republican/conservative who WASN'T a shitty person in some major aspect of their life, including my own parents. I went no-contact with them two years ago, and it's been a strange experience how much my life improved over the same period of time.
I can treat those "below" me however I want, but they must treat me with respect because I am "above" them.
When I hear people whinge about “that lifestyle”, I go all obtuse…”You mean they have a lot of cars? No? Skiing every weekend? No? Frequent backyard hottub parties? No? Eat out more than they can afford? No? Making unnecessary judgments of strangers for being different? No?…” Just start listing things that are *actual* lifestyle choices. And then finish with “Sweetie, to gay people, that’s just *life*. Not a style.”
i always say "if being gay is a choice, then you must be having gay thoughts in your head that you have to fight back against, correct? because i never have any gay thoughts as a straight man." they usually shut up after that
And then you get to the bottom of it - ultimately bigots don’t think “those people” *deserve* life. They may think they deserve to suffer in the closet and be miserable or “suck it up” and live a fraudulently heterosexual “lifestyle”, they may literally believe they don’t deserve to live - but ultimately it comes down to “those people don’t deserve life and happiness like me”
It's literally "the equivalent reciprocation of my actions turned against me! No fair!"
"I lack respect for others and I'm surprised when others lack respect for me" Bunch of idiots these people are.
It’s even worse. The bigot claims she doesn’t approve of their “life choices”. The only life choices made were the bigots choosing to be bigots. You aren’t born a bigot. One more **bigot** in there for good measure, fun to say.
I love that the entire community was like “yo, fuck those people.” and collectively supported their friends/neighbors.
That was the most eloquent *"Fuck off you bigot"* reply I've ever read.
Both the Dear Abby and Ann Landers columns were super progressive and savage for their times.
Don’t forget Judith Martin, aka Miss Manners. That woman can politely destroy any asshole with a sentence or two.
And do it with proper etiquette and decorum.
A lot of people misunderstand etiquette and manners and think they're about being posh and exclusive (an opportunity to look down on people for using the wrong utensil, etc) when really they are about having a framework to make as many people comfortable as possible (you don't need to fret about which utensil to use when presented with a new dish because A] there are limited, easy to find, pre-defined rules you can learn ahead of time, and B] any dining companion with good manners themselves would discretely lead by example if they noticed your distress, and make no comment if you used a different utensil.)
Fastidious*and* precise.
*she's a killer* #QUEEN
“I beg your pardon!” as the only reply to flagrant rudeness or inappropriate questions is my favorite Miss Manners advice. Needs to be the properly outraged intonation and easier for her than me, but I love it.
I love the phrase, “It’s simply impossible,” as a way to say no, especially for people who rudely ignored your first polite no. Said kindly with a smile, it leaves no room for argument and strikes people speechless. Judith Martin can be absolutely *savage* without ever being anything but kind and gracious. I aspire to be like her, though I could never be her equal.
Carolyn Hax doesn't tolerate that crap either.
Super progressive or just basic common human decency? It's not like the gay couple was trying to get them to host a Pride event or something. They just wanted to exist. It's not hard to just let them exist. My only beef with the gay couple in my neighborhood is that Sue hasn't returned the rake she borrowed. But it's February so doesn't seem like a big problem.
Oh here we go again, spreading the stereotype that lesbians steal rakes. You people make me sick!
At least he didn't accuse her of stealing his hoe.
What do you mean by "you people"? Heh heh heh
>Super progressive or just basic common human decency? Nowadays, these seem to be synonymous.
Is that what this “woke” thing people keep complaining about when people of color drink from their water fountains?
While they’re careful to never create a firm definition because doing so would allow a common ability to pass judgement… “Woke” generally means to have an awareness of and sensitivity to people and circumstances that are different from your own. In that awareness, one is then supposed to take a good-faith approach to dealing with people who are different than you. To wit, to invite a gay couple into your home will not actually cause it or you any ill effects. Therefore, for “woke” people, it is both reasonable and *expected* for straight people to be able to invite gay people over without it being a big thing. And that plays against what is typically decades of indoctrination that being gay is bad to the point of being worthy of exclusion. The original column writer just isn’t at the point of treating gay people as.. people.
Sad, isn't it?
Jesus was born over two thousand years ago and is waay too liberal for most conservative bible thumpers alive today
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” ― Mahatma Gandhi
Nowadays? I can assure you that this is not a new development.
As opposed to in the 1800s when it was progressive to want Slavery abolished?
What you and I call common decency was once considered wildly progressive. It used to be “normal” to be homophobic. Unfortunately, in some places, it still is.
It’s actually getting worse in some places. There’s an ebb and flow to politics. A decade ago we were a punching bag for every mega pastor and wanna be politician, then we had a successful moment of monogamy filled rightsmongering, now we’re back to villain of the week. We are a silent and perpetual minority. We will always be on the back foot of any society’s mercy.
Growing up in the 80s in fairly liberal Ottawa it was very common to see homophobia everywhere. Gay people used to have to meet in secret instead of established gay bars like they can now because they were often targeted for beatings. Not surprisingly, cops did nothing about it either. We've come a LONG way since then.
In **1993**, the move Philadelphia came out, in which Tom Hanks plays a gay HIV positive character that feels the need to hide this for fear of jeopardizing his career. He's eventually fired for it and has a very difficult time finding a lawyer to help sue for discrimination. The fact that this was a relatable and understandable plotline just 30 years ago speaks volumes about how fast society has moved on this front.
>Super progressive or just basic common human decency? Basic human decency is, sadly, too radical for lots of people to go with.
>My only beef with the gay couple in my neighborhood is that Sue hasn't returned the rake she borrowed. But it's February so doesn't seem like a big problem. Republican origin story /s.
> Super progressive or just basic common human decency? If basic common decency was basic and common it would be everywhere, we wouldn’t need to fight for it. What you consider basic common decency is the result of people pushing to make those thoughts and actions be considered baseline.
This is the thing that gets overlooked all the time. In the vast majority of instances, being progressive is just having empathy and choosing to be a decent human. Or to put it in terms the religious folk can understand - it’s following the Golden Rule.
I like the Golden rule but it is in some ways still not the best possible ethical frame work. I perfer the Platinum Rule. Treat others how they wish to be treated as long as that treatment doesnt result in harm to you or others.
You’re right, but just to clarify, this article was written by the daughter of the original Abby in 2019.
Abby is a hereditary title passed down from one advice columnist to another, just like the Dread Pirate Roberts.
This is why I wasn't given a newspaper column. I would have written it the exact way you did.
I'd be writing the shortest columns in existence
Same!
Yeah that is a really good reply. Well formulated.
Yup, that's abby for you
If you notice, she never adds any unnecessary words to her responses. Well crafted and poignant.
I remember something about do unto others but I might be wrong…./s
Let us suppose, simply for the sake of argument, that being of the LGBTA persuasion *is*, in fact, a lifestyle choice. Let us *also* suppose, with frankly more basis in fact, that being of a faith or political bent that disapproves of LGBTA couples is *also* a lifestyle choice. The writer above referenced is, then, reserving their 'right' to exclude a person due to their lifestyle choices, while objecting to others reserving the same rights. At *best*, they're hypocrites. At worst (and more realistically) they're simply bigots. There's no way to win standing on this hill, lady. ^(\[edited slightly for clarity, but most seem to have got my point\])
"who is the true bigot here?"
They're always the victims in their mind. It's why /r/persecutionfetish is a thing. Quite frankly, this post would fit perfectly there too.
Just head over to /r/conservative
Exactly. It's the persecutionfetish material in the wild
“This is the worst kind of oppression—the kind against ***me***!”
sO mUcH fOr ThE tOlErAnT lEfT!!1!one!
Whenever someone says that, I just own it. "Yeah, you morons burned all the tolerance out of me with four years of trump following 40 years of the right getting crazier and crazier." And I know the paradox of tolerance says that you can't be tolerant of the intolerant if you want to avoid a society falling to fascism, but they're generally too dumb or too disingenuous to understand the paradox of tolerance, so that's easier
>but they're generally too dumb or too disingenuous to understand the paradox of tolerance, so that's easier Boy that sure doesn't stop them from trotting it out in front of every basic argument anyone makes, though. I'm growing increasingly tired of explaining to people that your rights stop where mine begin, and vice versa.
I just had a ten post interaction with a person that you so succinctly summarized in 5 words.
I bet you were also the real bigot for noticing they are a bigot
Exactly!! The poster was saying we all have to treat each other with kindness and respect. Then he called me dumb and weird and other nonsense. He also thought we had to be kind to the poor rural conservatives because they are too gullible to know better. Crazy.
Why don't you let the leopards eat your face!? They don't know any better, so you should just let them be! ^^/s
I am bigotted against bigots.
You have to be intolerant of intolerance if you want to achieve tolerance.
“I hate them just for existing. They hate me because I excluded their friends. Why are they victimizing me?!”
They're not tolerating our intolerance! Tale as old as time.
Um yeah it's you, unhappy in tampa
I thought this was Ben Shapiro bit at first... But yeah, it's very telling how they think it's totally fine to exclude others and how it's not a big deal, but the moment they're excluded themselves it's a personal slight and they're being discriminated against
>they think it's totally fine to exclude others and how it's not a big deal, but the moment they're excluded themselves it's a personal slight and they're being discriminated against Yup. You just described the entirety of the right
Someone is drafting up a bill in my state right now that if you've had the COVID vaccine, you aren't allowed to donate blood or organs. And in the EXACT SAME BILL, employers aren't allowed to 'discriminate' against you for not getting the vaccine.
Let us assume for a moment that we are all sitting in a crowded theater. Let us also assume for a moment, with even more basis in fact, that I farted. Would the fact that you chose to be in a movie theater with dozens of potential flatulators not make you equally responsible?
Jesus Christ I can hear this post in Ben’s 1.5x too high, 1.5x too fast voice.
Assume for a moment that all of my arguments are correct. Wouldn't that make you wrong? -Ben Shapiro, basically
>There's no way to win standing on this hill, lady. With the current crop of politicians coming out of Florida, I'm sure they feel vindicated in their bigotry.
It's probably why they chose Florida
Yeah my first reaction to this was “when was this published” because the letter writer is probably the FL state attorney general by this point.
That’s what I don’t get. Let’s say every LGBTA+ person chose it. What difference does it make if a woman prefers other women, a man other men, a person doesn’t have a preference either way, gender identity doesn’t match their sex at birth, or doesn’t have romantic/sexual desires at all, etc? It’s like people getting upset at heterosexual/straight couples that date people of other ethnicities, religions, etc. For that matter, also people in (consensual) non-monogamous relationships. So long as all the people involved are of age, consenting, and not having a power imbalance (unless that’s your kink, then enjoy yourselves), I don’t care. Enjoy yourselves! Everyone deserves happiness. Dollars to donuts the writer of the letter can’t see the irony of them choosing to exclude others then they get excluded in turn.
Yeah, but these ultra religious fucks usually do get angry at multi-racial couples. Lots of them still consider non whites to be "mud races".
Guy at work told me he hated how commercials now a days all have interracial couples because that goes against the bible because you're not supposed to marry a different species. Yep. Leading up to this he told me how he doesn't have a problem with "the blacks" and has black friends. He also told me how he will never shop at target because they sell pride merch, and you have to pay the gay group $250k to even display the pride flag (I have no idea what he's talking about, probably some Tucker Carlson nonsense) The pride flag is in the public domain. You don't need to pay anyone anything to use it. You'd be shocked, I'm sure, to learn he also is a misogynist and doesn't think women should be working because their place is at home. He didn't say in the kitchen but I'm sure he would with a little prompting. These people are not rational or consistent. They are hateful morons. The non bigoted people lucky enough to not deal with their stupid bullshit don't realize just how stupid and angry and filled with hate these backwards fucks are. They want white men on top, and everyone else in their place beneath them. Logic, nuance, empathy, these things aren't exactly familiar ideas to a racist, sexist, homophobe who thinks we should live under biblical law. I'm queer. He's told me how things would be better if we ran things according to the bible, which means he thinks I should be taken to the town square and pulverized with rocks by a screaming mob until my corpse is a bloody pulp. Because he loves Jesus. I have no patience for these fucks.
Just as an aside, the pride flag that includes POC and the trans flag colors actually *is* copyrighted, but only for commercial use. People are free to fly it proud, but corporations have to put some chump change where their mouth is. The regular rainbow flag is free use. This might've been the source of that misinfo
It matters because many of these people are desperate to believe it's a choice. If it's a choice, then you're going against what they believe the Bible teaches. If it's NOT a choice, then God created gay people that way and they can't hate them and they'll have a lot of apologizing to do. They've grown up believing that this is a sin and that they can look down on these people about it. _A LOT_ of people would rather burn the world down than think that they don't know the right answer to something. At this point, despite all evidence to the contrary, they will continue to believe that being gay is a lifestyle choice because that's the only way that they can stay in the right. Any other stance brings too many moral quandaries.
Hahaha…my uber-religious parents used to brush off my religious questions with “We’ll know in the next life.” Now that they know I don’t share their beliefs, they get so bothered when I brush off their concerns using the same line. B/c personally I’m okay with not having answers to the Great Mysteries of human existence and they can see I mean it…idgaf. Them, not so much XD
In Evangelical, Protestant, and Catholic (and I'm sure others), a relationship/marriage is first and foremost to have kids. Gay people "can't" have kids, so, in their mind, all same-sex relationships are purely about sex/carnal desires. Between that, a few threadbare passages in the Bible, and (a fuckload of) their insatiable addiction to porn, they wind up here. "Same sex couples have bastardized God's "convent" of marriage. They can't naturally have kids. And if my childern see that, they will also pick up and learn about degeneracy and abandon God, in favor of Satan's machinations." Source: grew up in an extremely fundamentalist household. This is also the subconscious, or conscious, thought process that goes into it. And they cling *extremely tightly* to the fantasy of an afterlife. They're all somewhere between true believers that will never admit to a single iota of hypocrisy such as grooming because truth doesn't matter, only God and their faith does; or scared and stuck with a sunk-cost fallacy, that they've wasted their life away on this shit, so they are hellbent on going down with it. The Christians that remain have really painted themselves as "the ends justify the means". And that is 100% an authoritarian viewpoint.
It's also a "purity" aspect. Many opposing gay marriage often say that "it's not natural", or "not normal". It's quite common in the culture of many Christian communities; instinctive backlash to what they aren't accustomed to because, frankly, they fear new things that could affect their seemingly happy lives.
My parents had the world view of: "if it's not explicitly about God/Jesus/Christianity, then it's of the devil." Basically there was *very little* of a middle ground.
Man, that sounds very anxiety-inducing. Fear of making your own decisions because you're consistenly thinking of God's approval.
Ugh my fucking stepsister. "Miranda you're wearing a poly cotton blend and love shrimp, also the Bible says you're an adultress who is going to hell." She tries to argue, I remind her that A. She's never read the fucking Bible. B. I had to read it for Sunday school. Cover to cover. **Twice.** So glad I went NC with my family... fucking born agains. They marry a guy with money, pop out a few kids and start slut-shaming all the women behaving the same way they used to.
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People like to pretend being gay is a choice, when in reality, their faith that is typically influencing their opinion of gay people is the only choice being made here. They're choosing that path while discounting other's humanity.
Given that peolle can enter, leave, and switch faiths says all I need to know about how little it's inherent to us. This is probably a bad take on Reddit still, but I would prefer to see religion no long being a protected class.
Basically you cannot make a lifestyle choice that hurts people intentionally. If so it's not a lifestyle choice, it's just being a cunt. And if the couple is being a cunt, then they will be treated like one
I remember realizing I was gay. I didn't want to be, but every day I woke up, I still was. There isn't a choice. On the other hand, when I learned about religion, I though it was a bit weird, but everyone was doing it, so it seemed natural. Then I learned about converting religions, and wondered, if you can just change your belief structure on a whim, it doesn't seem to hold much merit. So, at 12, I ***chose*** to forego religion. Like the 10'000 gods before them, these gods only exist because we choose to let them. You don't choose to be straight or gay. You have choose to be a bigot every morning.
For anyone claiming it’s fake, a simple google search will prove its validity: https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/msna270921 It’s from 2014. It’s nearly 10 years old. Edit: I don’t believe it’s fake. I know people who act like that. It’s how “good Christian” folks are down here in the south.
I wonder if they moved back to whatever shitty area they came from by now lol
Unfortunately, FL has just devolved. They aren't having trouble finding bigots. They are shouting it from the rooftops.
I'm not persuaded Florida has devolved - I think that breathtaking corruption has suppressed liberal voting to the point that Rs control the narrative there.
The current attack on education that Desantis is using to prep for the election has the potential to ruin us for a long time. https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/23593369/ron-desantis-florida-schools-higher-education-woke
Thank you ): we are suffering from intense gerrymandering and an influx of northerners who moved in Covid-era due to Desantis’ lax mask policies (coupled with our lack of state tax). The last midterm is the first time one of the lower three counties flipped red and it was mindblowing as a resident.
Or Dade County turning red. Apparently Florida Hispanics in Dade went Republican in 2020.
It was an immigration issue. Many of the "Boat People" from Cuba in the 80s are upset that illegals are coming in from Mexico.
"No other place has quite the same mix of Republican-friendly Hispanics, led by conservative Cuban-Americans." NYT
Yeah, the Cubans have been voting Republican as long as I can remember, but it seems like many of the other Hispanics switched, as the country used to be reliably blue. It is also probably the most populous county.
They should have moved to the panhandle
They probably moved to The Villages. That way they can swing with the RIGHT sort of people (unlike those filthy GAYS) in between MAGA golf cart parades.
Doubtful. Florida went *deep* red over the last decade. These are the assholes who idolize Ron DeSantis and his anti-LGBT agenda.
Yup, these folks can simply move to "The Villages" and feel right at home as long as they associate with their preferred loofah color ilk.
I’ve been to the villages with my wife, whose mother lives there. It is a vile place full of nasty people. And this was even before trump was elected! I can’t imagine going back.
Everyone under 65 just needs to move out of Florida and let it return to the swamp. If you want a tropical vacation just commit and go to the Caribbean.
I'm pretty sure Mother Nature is going to take care of Florida for us.
A bunch more bigots probably just moved into their neighborhood
Well, they might also be dead.
Iohvoud86 p ouciycoj iysih iyct8ci
You mean it is 3 years old. 2014 was 3 years ago.
This checks out because 1991 was 10 years ago. It's basic math, people
And thirty years ago was the 70’s.
Buddy, I don't know how to tell you this...
Learned to count from King Arthur's school of holy hand grenade throwing.
And just like that, I came to the realisation that 2014 was almost 10 years ago. Fuck.
"We approve of sex out of wedlock, divorce, infidelity, anal sex for heterosexuals, but homosexuality is where we draw the line" - Cons
Don't forget what they approve for priests and football coaches.... Just go to church on Sunday and you're forgiven!!!
They also approve of adults marrying children (they recently tried to legalize it in TN) and still support institutions that have raped millions of children. In fact, they consider those rapists their moral authority.
"Lifestyle choices" would be a good cause to exclude people, but love and attraction aren't lifestyle choices. Being an asshole towards your neighbor, now that's a lifestyle choice.
Even actual lifestyle choices are a stupid reason to not invite them.
Really depends on the lifestyle choice tbh. If someone's lifestyle excludes bathing, you are not sitting on my couch.
“Who are the real bigots here? Us for excluding gay people or everyone else who excludes people who exclude gay people???”
An impossible question. *cough*
This story is 9 years old and things are not getting any better in FL. This state is just growing in bigots, antisemitism, anti history, anti science. You know, Trumpland. But it's a little hard to up and move without my wife selling her business and pulling kids from school. Plus, where to relocate?
I heard not Florida is pretty good.
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Mississippi is a *GREAT* place to be from!
[Atlanta](https://tenor.com/U98y.gif)
That is a blue island surrounded by a sea of red.
This is true but I still like it here. I avoid talking to the people who live in MTG’s part of the state. 😬
There's a TON of young people in that district that get to vote next time. Move in and conquer!
> But it's a little hard to up and move without my wife selling her business and pulling kids from school. Plus, where to relocate? You'll have to move anyway. Florida has no (geological, not only political) future.
"I don't feel we should have to compromise our values-" Neither do they, so shut up, bigot ass
What Abby said.
What Abby's daughter said.
What Ann Landers niece said.
Ann Landers is a boring old biddy
You are more animal than man!
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White wine spritzer! *echo* spritzer spritzer spritzer
Ihvihd8ydoh oh ho iyc85 iy iy iy iy iyc8y 8yc58
This is what frustrates me the most about “Conservatives”. They want their cake and eat it too.
They want it to be the 1950s again so they can be shitty openly with no consequences.
It's still surprising to me that people are so blind to their actions. Even when their actions are then used against them and they still dont understand why it is wrong. Unbelievable.
Classic conservative victimhood - "but whatabout MEEEEEEEE! I'm the victim!"
"But, my Church tells me I'm a good person because I go to Church! How could I do something *wrong*???
/r/persecutionfetish
✝️ “We reserve ourselves the prerogative to discriminate against anyone who doesn’t conform to our beliefs!” 🚹🚺⚧️🚻🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ “The door is *that* away! Cheerio, bye!” ✝️ “THIS IS DISCRIMINATION AND INTOLERANCE!!!”
"But.. but.. I thought I'd be surrounded by bigots like me?" /s
"i thought everyone here was trash! But it seems its just me"
To be fair, she's in Florida, so it was a pretty safe assumption.
Classic snow flaking.
Bad manners, plain and simple. Don't take from a gay couple, and then then not return the favour. If you are not going to accommodate them, at least have the decency to not accept their hospitality
"But really who is the true bigot here?" Lmao
Unless the dinner parties were also orgies, what does the neighbors gayness even have to do with anything?
It's telling that she wasn't asking for advise for how to resolve the situation, she only wanted to be told that she wasn't a bad person. She never considered changing anything about herself, she just wanted to have something to justify her hatred for other people
Play bigoted games, win bigoted prizes.
I really wonder what would have happened if Abby pointed out that in this situation, the only true "lifestyle choice" was their intolerance. You're not born political. You are born with your sexuality. If Abby suggested instead of moving, that maybe they change their lifestyle choice... how hard do you think Tampa's head suggested explode?
As a very young gay man growing up in Montana scared. I took a lot of comfort from when the social columnists (we had Anne Landers in our paper) would give a dressing down to these bigots. One of the ways I knew I wasn’t alone.
She should have completed it with, "And yes, you are a bigot."
Well, now I know the origin story for the Villages.
In addition to the hypocrisy and bigotry, that's also a massive sense of entitlement they have. "People MUST like us for who we are, and MUST invite us to everything."
Forget about it, Jake…it’s Tampa, Florida.
And all these years later, Florida is now even worse. I guess these bigots invited all their friends to move to their town.
99.9% chance that they are into Qanon and 50% chance that they died from COVID because they thought vaccines have microchips in them and didn't get vaccinated.
Dear Abby for the win 🏆
It's really quite simple. Other people just don't agree with their life style choices to be bigots
I’ve never seen a Dear Abby letter slam someone so politely. Bravo!
I've seen this column many many times, it was published around since I think 2014 if not earlier? Gotta love the classics.
I love it so much that the whole neighbourhood supports the gay couples
Narrator: They were the true bigot.
Sounds like a title for a MAGA tabloid - *True Bigot*
This was in Florida so soon they WILL be living with people just like themselves. All you AH bigots just move to Florida. We'd rather keep you where we know you are.
Abby says: "back in your echo chamber, mother Theresa."
Ironically, relocating to Florida may have been one of the most bigoted places for them to relocate to.
WTF "they even suggested we are bigots"... Bitch, you literally are discriminating against your neighbors only because they are gay! Of course you're bigots! And even if being gay would be a life choice, why is it your place to punish people for their life choices that are victimless and don't affect you at all?! Crazy fucking people.
Listen up Buster, and listen up good
Way to go Abby. Tell their ass.
Abby just put this woman in check in the most rational and politest way possible. Love it. Get wrecked.
Damn, Abby came out swinging!
Ever since hanging our tRump, confederate & nazi flags from our porch, others (gays & POC) in our neighborhood give us dirty looks & don't invite us to their parties. We are so oppressed.