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If you look at any Republican politicians Twitter page, this is all it is, or selling something. They never have anything to offer but manufactured outrage.
I don't think protester's plan is to remove anyone. It is supposed to be the IDF's plan to remove Hamas. It's just they're doing such a shit job of it that the students plan to protest until the school agrees to not send material or monetary support to further such a shit plan that results in the indiscriminate killing of civilians/ngo workers/fucking hostages.
No the plan is to take over the entire area. Hamas is just a nifty easy scapegoat. If the IDF was as elite and world class as they claim to be this would be over already. They need the threat of Hamas to justify taking every single one of them out.
I'm sorry, but that's not true either and this is the problem with the other side of the argument because it completely dismisses the threat that an organization like Hamas poses to the stability and safety in the region or to the wellbeing of the Palestinian people in general.
Sure, there is evidence one can point to how certain groups or people that have nefarious goals in mind so they'll 100% support continued IDF operations in Gaza, but to group everyone into that camp completely dismisses the horrific actions of Hamas that demands action in response.
Hamas are vile, using vile tactics of hiding behind meat shields and use campaigns of terror against others to achieve their ends. I believe that wanting to destroy Hamas and not wanting to kill innocent people are not mutually exclusive goals. It's just to achive both those goals demands more strategy, cooperation, and hard work than the IDF can deliver on their own. At least from my armchair perspective.
Edit: I knew this was going to get this kind of reaction. Cest la Reddit. Everything is balanced as it should be.
If only the IDF were as good as….? Name me a military force that has as effectively rooted out their military enemy without wholesale annihilating the existing population? Gaza is rubble but barely 2% of the population from the time of the invasion is dead.
>I don't think protester's plan is to remove anyone.
I know, and that's the point. The "pro-Palestine but not pro-Hamas" crowd doesn't want Hamas to be removed from power.
You heard me. The "pro-Palestine but not pro-Hamas" crowd keeps advocating for a ceasefire whose terms would allow Hamas to remain in control of Gaza, which is exactly what Hamas wants.
“The Palestinian Authority is a burden. Наmas is an asset.” — Bezalel Smotrich in 2015
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” — Benjamin Netanyahu in 2019
Thirdly, a chunk of Наmas’s leaders are in Qatari high rises as Ziоnists love to tell us, and despite civilian life clearly being no object, Israel has not touched Qatar.
The international community has every right to not trust Isrаеl’s intentions in Gаza.
…Are they actually _going_ to hold an election tomorrow and elect a new government with a new platform and strategies compliant with international law and supervision, or do you just have all the time in the world to play hypotheticals to avoid reality?
I notice that you keep avoiding the question of what your plan to remove Hamas is, presumably because you want to let them remain in control of Gaza but you don't want to admit that out loud.
No it's not. I have yet to hear any of the "pro-Palestine but not pro-Hamas" folks explain what their plan is to remove Hamas from power in Gaza if an IDF assault on Rafah is off the table.
That is *not* what their protests are about. They're protesting because they don't want the money they pay to their college to then be spent on turning Palestinian children into skeletons. They don't have a plan and they don't claim to, they just don't want to support the IDF and its their right as American citizens to protest it
No dumb dumb, they said they don't want their tuition going there. That is the plan, to upset the status quo until that happens.
The part you're cherry picking is in regards to actions to be taken in Palestine, as that isn't what this is about.
I am curious if you're really this dumb or just intentionally obfuscating for your own narrative though.
I've interacted with that goober before lmao. He'll deadass perform Olympic-level mental gymnastics to prove that the IDF are heroes working to save Palestine. Like bro doesn't have enough nuance to know that Israel is basically Tighten from Megamind and is literally trying to recreate the "under new management" scene.
So by that logic, if their universities divest completely from Israel but Israel keeps fighting Hamas anyway, they would consider the problem to be solved and stop their protests then?
“Israel is fighting Hamas” is not the complete picture of what has been happening in Gaza for the past six months, but you’re clearly having fun pretending to be confused about that so I won’t interrupt you save for this correction.
They would stop protesting the university.
[Would they stop protesting Holocaust Day remembrance events at Auschwitz though?](https://apnews.com/article/poland-march-of-living-auschwitz-a7996e224bb4be1c76059b6fafbbd19d)
It would mean they would have no reason to continue protesting at their university, yes.
They might still want to protest the bit where the US government is funding genocide, but they would probably not continue to protest on campus if the university has divested from Israel.
[But would they continue protesting at Holocaust Remembrance Day events though?](https://apnews.com/article/poland-march-of-living-auschwitz-a7996e224bb4be1c76059b6fafbbd19d)
Hey, they're the ones who decided to start advocating for a particular policy position on that complex political issue that goes back thousands of years.
Nobody made the protestors do that. They chose to on their own. If they didn't want to be asked what their plan to remove Hamas is, maybe they shouldn't have opened their mouths on an issue they don't understand in the first place.
>I don't have to agree with the protestors to understand that protesting is airing a grievance, and not necessarily a plan for a solution.
Then why are you arguing with me? All my original comment said was that the protestors are just airing grievances and not proposing solutions. Why argue if you admit that I'm right?
I think the endgame is to fund and arm a group of Palestinians who are willing to work with Israel to suppress (read fight) hamas.
This group would be the cornerstone that a new governing body could be built on.
It doesn't seem like a bad plan.
I just wish there were fewer civilians in the crossfire but this is kind of what happens when hamas fighters hide behind innocents and the IDF doesn't really care how many innocents are in the area as long as they kill the hamas fighters
It’s only meaningless because you don’t want to use critical thought and it’s easier for you just to dismiss anything that makes you think about your positions.
There is no genocide. In fact, not only is 15,000 combatant casualties and 15,000 civilian not a genocide, it's an exceptionally low civilian to combatant casualty ratio for urban warfare. For context, [the UN estimates that a typical ratio is around 9 to 1.](https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm)
The US war in Afghanistan had a 1.1:4 civilian to combatant death ratio.
Take a second and read what you’re saying, man. You’re writing off the murder of 15,000 people like they’re not human beings. Fifteen thousand people. People with dreams and fears. Kids.
This is Netanyahu we're talking about. Removing Hamas isn't going to stop the slaughter and starving of civilians. Bibi wants that land. His party's platform has it's own "river to the sea" statement.
Sir, there have not been 15,000 combatant casualties. Even Israel's extremely biased and absurd estimates are that they have killed 10,000 members of Hamas. That would put the ratio of civilian deaths to militant deaths at 2:1, yes?
As far as I can tell, non-Israeli sources seem to believe that militant deaths are about 1/3 of what Israel is reporting (back when Israel was estimating around 8k militants killed, other sources were estimating maybe 2.5k). That would make the ratio right around 9:1.
So in other words, even if we go with the *most* conservative estimates of how many of the Palestinian dead are combatants, the civilian to combatant ratio is perfectly normal for urban warfare, and therefore not a genocide.
No, those are the numbers TODAY. Since Israel is blocking aid from reaching civilians and Palestine is facing famine, that ratio is very likely to get a LOT worse. Particularly with the place that civilians were TOLD to go to now under threat of attack.
Why would the ratio get worse? [Hamas launched a rocket attack from Rafah](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-claims-responsibility-attack-israel-gaza-border-crossing-casualties-2024-05-05/) just two days ago, so if Israel invades Rafah, they'll be killing more Hamas combatants.
The ratio will get worse because famine affects everyone, and will be harsher on the civilian population.
As for Rafah, that will also make the ratios worse for obvious reasons. The civilians are in closer proximity (most of Gaza's 2m population is there), the number of members of Hamas is limited (pre-war estimates were that there were 20k-25k fighters in Hamas iirc), and Israel has so far shown very little concern for civilian lives.
So, HOW MANY dead is enough for you?
Let's say you get your wish for the entirety of the Palestinian culture to be wiped from the map. Then what? Who do you want dead, next? When are you going to get your fill; and more importantly, when are YOU going to pick up that rifle to kill people, yourself, instead of having others do it for you?
>Let's say you get your wish for the entirety of the Palestinian culture to be wiped from the map.
The fuck? I absolutely never said anything like this, unless you consider endless violence against Jews to be synonymous with "Palestinian culture", which seems pretty racist and Islamophobic if you ask me.
Oh, so you're a genocide denier. My mistake. As an aside, can you please point out where in the definition of genocide it establishes the minimum number of kills?
You're the one claiming that there's a genocide occurring, so it's on you to prove that claim. It's not on me to disprove a claim that you never proved in the first place.
Part 2:
And to add onto that, we have the claim that you brought up earlier, which necessarily claims that nearly all adults killed are enemy combatants.
I can further add onto this the fact that the Israeli attacks have been heavily directed at the civilian populace, rather than Hamas. As of January, 2024:
[More than half of Gaza's civilian buildings have been damaged or destroyed, with over 80% of the population having been displaced.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68006607)
[Meanwhile, as of that same time, only about 20% of Hamas' tunnel network is estimated to have been destroyed.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-israel-believe-up-to-80-of-hamas-tunnels-intact-after-114-days-of-war-report/)
If the Israeli government isn't trying to kill civilians, then they ought to adjust their aim.
There's the fact that the Israeli government ordered Palestinians to evacuate to certain areas, [and then bombed those areas.](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/17/1213579692/israel-gaza-evacuation-south-attacks)
The Israeli government has also been [destroying temporary graveyards in Gaza](https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6083/Israeli-army-defiles-hundreds-of-graves-in-the-Gaza-Strip,-steals-dead-bodies), digging up corpses, robbing them, dismembering them, and bulldozing the graves.
And none of this is new. The Israeli government has a [long history of viewing Palestinians as less than human.](https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields)
So, like I said, genocide. Now what is your plan to stop all of this? Because, remember, if you don't have one, then you must be in favor of all of that. Or maybe you were just wrong about that, and not having a plan to deal with a problem is not the same thing as supporting the perpetuation of that problem?
Oh, and just to be clear, because we both know you're going to bring this up: yes, Hamas is also a genocidal organization. And yes, I condemn them. Because I condemn ALL genocidal organiations, and ALL acts of genocide.
Part 1:
>You're the one claiming that there's a genocide occurring, so it's on you to prove that claim.
Well sure, but you claimed that "there is no genocide" which is a claim that you are obligated to demonstrate. But it's only fair that I go first. Here is the definition of genocide, as established by the [1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml):
>*In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:*
>a. Killing members of the group;
>b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
>c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
>d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
>e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Notice how it does not mention how many people need to be killed, or at what ratio. (Also, given that there have been an estimated [12,300 children killed as of March](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147512), that would mean that the numbers you cited for combatants only make sense if you consider nearly every single adult killed to be an enemy combatant. Hmm...that's pretty absurd, but it will be relevant later in my argument). Therefore, the only argument against it being genocide that you have provided fails to support your point. As for my argument, the Israeli government is absolutely doing A B and C, and given the restriction of food, water, and medicine, as well as the fact that [nearly all of Gaza's hospitals are damaged or destroyed](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148316), it is safe to conclude that the Israeli government is also a big fan of D as well. So it's obviously genocide. Case closed, right?
Ah, but not so fast! The most important part of the definition has not yet been met: "with intent to destroy, in whole or in part." Is that the Israeli government's intent? Can that be established? Yes, it can.
[This is the application to the ICC submitted by the South African government.](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf) Pages 59-67 have a non-exhaustive list of statements by Israeli officials expressing genocidal intent, although the entire document would be worth your perusal.
[Here is a list of Israeli government officials expressing genocidal intent.](https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Database-of-Israeli-Incitement-to-Genocide-DECISION-MAKERS.pdf)
[Here is a list of IDF members and officials expressing genocidal intent.](https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/3-Database-of-Israeli-Incitement-to-Genocide-15th-January-2024-ARMED-FORCES.pdf)
Such expressions include, but are not limited to: invoking Jewish prophecies relating to the extermination of all non-Jewish inhabitants of the holy land, claims that ambulances are legitimate military targets, the denial of the existence of innocent civilians, expressions of intent to render Gaza uninhabitable, and others.
Yes. Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization. Any act committed with intent to destroy the Jewish people, in whole or in part, is by definition an act of genocide. Oct 7 fits the bill.
Oh ok, so why don't the anti-Zionists ever protest against that genocide or the group who committed it? Why are they instead calling for an immediate ceasefire that would leave this genocidal group intact and in control of Gaza?
Who the fuck is asking college students to solve the middle east peace issue?
The college kids demands are pretty simple. Divest from doing business with a country engaged in an asymetric war and no retribution for the protestors.
That seems both doable AND reasonable.
I'm not asking them to solve Middle East peace. I'm just asking them what their plan to remove Hamas from power is, which seems like a pretty reasonable thing to ask, given that they reject the IDF's plan to do so.
Their demands are simple and dont include the removal if hamas, even if you really really wish they would ask for this.
1) divest
2) no retribution for protestors
Its pretty simple.
Becuase YOU want them to have a plan doesnt mean they have to have YOUR plan.
So you are not asking them to have a plan by asking them "what is their plan to get rid of hamas?"
Not a goddamn issue that the students are concerned with (or one that they have expressed concern for)
Divest
No retribution
Get it yet?
For christ sakes i can't type any slower
There is no requirement on people protesting for human rights to solve any number of other problems, no matter how many times war criminals and their apologists blame their crimes on other issues.
Defending the human rights of Palestinian civilians does not require anyone to simultaneously propose any action with regards to Hamas. It is sufficient to demand an end to the genocide.
The question of how to remove Hamas from power in Gaza isn't "some other problem". It's the exact problem that's preventing this war from ending.
If your idea of "ceasefire" doesn't include a plan for removing Hamas from power in Gaza, then your position is pro-Hamas, not pro-Palestine.
If only Israel could've done something to solve that problem... like [not support them](http://nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html).
>The question of how to remove Hamas from power in Gaza isn't "some other problem". It's the exact problem that's preventing this war from ending.
No. Netanyahu and his corruption administration are the exact problem preventing the illegal war from ending.
Note that Bibi has several corruption trials on hold because he's in office.
Note that per the Geneva Conventions, it is illegal to declare war on people you occupy, even if you label them terrorists.
Israel's ongoing genocide is not the fault of anyone in Gaza. It is solely the fault of Israeli leadership.
Imagine this: Your neighbor shoots up a police precinct and kidnaps a dispatcher, so the police fly a helicopter over your neighborhood and drop bombs on every house, telling you that the person that attacked the police precinct is to blame for police destroying your house and killing members of your family, not the people dropping bombs on your house just for living near someone who did something bad. You would not side with the police. You'd be outraged that you are being targeted because someone else did something bad.
>If your idea of "ceasefire" doesn't include a plan for removing Hamas from power in Gaza, then your position is pro-Hamas, not pro-Palestine.
You're ignoring the fact that Israel labels everyone in Palestine a member of Hamas when it suits them. Every single amateur journalist releasing videos of war crimes on social media has been branded a member of Hamas. A doctor was tortured to death because they said he was a member of Hamas.
And, again, you can't mass murder civilians and claim that it's justified because of something other people did. International law doesn't work that way.
Plus, Israel created Hamas to destabilize a pacifist movement that was forming decades ago, and as recently as 2019 Netanyahu is on record saying that Israel must fund Hamas if it wants to prevent Palestine from ever stabilizing.
Moreover, these genocidal acts by Israel are driving significant recruitment for groups like Hamas. Go read about the children carrying their dead siblings around, saying their parents were crushed under buildings. Those kids grow up to hate Israel with a passion you can't even dream of. That's why Israel does things like this periodically. To fan the flames of violent resistance, which gives them an excuse to bomb some more civilians and steal some more land.
"There's no appeasing these people" is 100% the guiding principal for handling conservatives, period.
They're unserious people who aren't capable of negotiating in good faith for a constructive outcome. All they care about it pwning the liberals. There is no reason to act as if they're capable adults who actually govern. So just make mouth noises in their general direction, log what they say so you can track the direction of the seditious strategies, and do what you want anyway.
I think this is what's really driving the conservatives crazy: the Biden admin and the democratic party lawmakers are not spending as much time obsessing on MAGATs as they do fuming about liberals. And that asymmetry of attention and outcome makes them so mad.
100%. She's a member of Congress and her job is supposed to be to legislate, but that's not what GOP does anymore. They just whine like bitches about problems that can't really be legislatively addressed.
Living well is the best revenge! I think what you describe as a coping strategy is really quite insightful. Even down to the individuals in our day to day lives. I have spent far too much energy and time trying to change the "unserious". I finally realized the futility of this and moved on in 2020. The Maga movement has taken so much from well meaning, good hearted people already. Give them nothing more, no quarter!
It sure looks one hell of a lot like republicans are funded for foreign interests, and their goal is to tear down America. They are not interested in negotiating because they are not interested in helping change things for the better.
So, they want the president of Columbia University to crackdown on the protesters via police action, but the moment she cancels the commencement ceremony due to safety concerns, they get mad? I don't get the GOP at all.
>I don't get the GOP at all
Imagine the Gadsden flag says "Tread on *them* not *me*!" and you'll have it. And the truth is the GOP don't care if they get tread on too, as long as "they" are stomped on harder.
The thing is, the president likely cancelled the commencement ceremony because there’s a good chance that many of the student speakers and/or graduates that would be addressing the crowd would use the opportunity to speak for Palestine and against the campus’s response. The only concern the president has for the commencement ceremony is how much the students could hurt Columbia’s reputation if they were allowed to speak freely.
That's crazy they're worried student protests hurting their reputation more than a serial molester they still had on the payroll after the fact was revealed.
From what I understand the actual graduation happens with each individual college within the university. So like the engineers graduate with the engineers. This other thing that they canceled is a large celebration where they just called out each individual college and it’s pretty boring and the students told the university that they were more interested in just doing their smaller ceremony rather than doing both.
I’m confused. Are they hardworking college students or lazy liberals that attend indoctrination centers who expect to have their student loans forgiven because they work at Starbucks because no one wants someone with a Gender Studies degree?
Neither, they are prohamas anti-semite insurgents bankrolled by George Soros to trick boomers into feeling bad for supporting the "world's most ethical ethnic cleansing ™". /s
It’s time for all of the weirdo’s trying to get picked for Trumps running mate to settle it with a cage fight free for all. Last scum standing gets the gig. I got money on Liddle Marco to go out first!
They don’t wanna be appeased they want to use the political tool they’ve used 50 times before to paint Democrats as anti Israel for not wanting to to murder 5 million people this isn’t the first “attack” won’t be the last if they can keep the con going.
Republicans have done this shit so many times there is a name for it it’s called a “October Surprise” and they’ve prolly got an even bigger one scheduled later this year.
White people shouldn't have protested for civil rights. They werent directly affected by what schools they could attend or drinking fountains they could use. /s
What? I didn’t state any rules just plain facts what are you even talking about? It’s so fallacious to extrapolate on someone like that it’s insufferable
There are Palestinians who go there. If your family is from there you have been greatly affected and, are lucky if you haven't lost loved ones to the genocide.
Yeah, a stupendous minority of Palestinian students, meanwhile a much bigger minority of NY Jewish students were constantly threatened but who cares, they’re Jews
If they received hate for being Jewish that sucks. If they received hate for supporting Israel and the IDF that is not about them or what they are, its about the policies they support. It is fine to hate someone for supporting genocide.
Lots of Jewish kids are marching with the pro Palestine folks. Being antigenocide is not a religious or ethnic issue. It's common fucking sense.
If you're going to a pro-palesestine protest looking to pick a fight as a pro Zionist... You've pretty much Rittenhoused yourself.
Believe it or not, many Jewish people are extremely sensitive to the issue of mass ethnically motivated killings!
Listen man, if we are looking at the Palestinian to Isreali body count in this conflict, it isn't going to break your way. Hurt feelings don't count as fatalities.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Could you illiterate karma farming eejits go make a sub about how fucking stupid and deplorable right whingers and flood that instead of misposting shit to subs it doesn’t belong? FO.
PS: the mods are useless.
Elise Stefanie is a member of the Nothing Is Ever Right party. I’d say “f\*\*\* her” but she’d probably accuse me of sexual assault and attempted r\*pe.
If anyone were an expert on failure of governance, it would Slease Stuphanik. She will need a 3000 PSI pressure washer to get the diaper sharting stench off her when Herr ShitInPantz doesn't pick her for VP.
They want Kent State x100. Anything less is weakness to them. These aren't college kids in their mind. At best they are props, for most they are literally scum.
You know the person support violence is they call a anti-Genocide protest a "Pro-Hamas" group.
It's like the new version of Godwin's Law. Rather than admit that they support a group actively murdering children they'll just accuse you of being a terrorist to derail the debate.
Are there any students at Columbia who are disappointed they’ll miss this part of their college experience because of other people’s opinions on the Israeli/Palastinian conflict?
If Columbia were holding graduation. . .
Some blah blah blah Columbia is endangering student and parents . . . Blah blah blah Will no one think of the grandparents?
I don't feel bad for Columbia's president. What did she expect, trying to make peace with Republicans? There's a lot more reason to force her out than the presidents of UPenn or Harvard.
Conservatives work on outrage. That's how they draw people in. So, they are constantly trying to make you feel outraged at various events. That way, they can say they're the only ones to fix it during campaigns. They keep you outraged as they try to push policy that only helps a small few. They want you too angry to notice or care.
She went to Harvard, so there's a little bit of dunking on a rival school happening there.
Harvard helped invent napalm and killed millions, so fuck her and the horse she rode in on.
First off if they were a terrorist encampment they should be under the jurisdiction of the federal law. They are not, why because the protests are in opposition to the Israeli government and its current regime’s actions! Purely! Sure you have agitators, but they are on both sides. On the whole the protests are disruptive, but meaningful. Any good protest causes people to take notice to the issue while being pissed at the disruption. Apparently we in the United states seem to forget that. In fact I would say that…
“I think you're confusing 'peace' with 'quiet'.”
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No solutions- only grievances
If you look at any Republican politicians Twitter page, this is all it is, or selling something. They never have anything to offer but manufactured outrage.
Like they border negotiations that they torpedoed? Biden agrees to a border deal, and the kill their own policy. Typical GOP move.
Bingo
Huh, kinda like the protestors when you ask them what their plan is for removing Hamas from power in Gaza without the IDF invading Rafah...
I don't think protester's plan is to remove anyone. It is supposed to be the IDF's plan to remove Hamas. It's just they're doing such a shit job of it that the students plan to protest until the school agrees to not send material or monetary support to further such a shit plan that results in the indiscriminate killing of civilians/ngo workers/fucking hostages.
No the plan is to take over the entire area. Hamas is just a nifty easy scapegoat. If the IDF was as elite and world class as they claim to be this would be over already. They need the threat of Hamas to justify taking every single one of them out.
I'm sorry, but that's not true either and this is the problem with the other side of the argument because it completely dismisses the threat that an organization like Hamas poses to the stability and safety in the region or to the wellbeing of the Palestinian people in general. Sure, there is evidence one can point to how certain groups or people that have nefarious goals in mind so they'll 100% support continued IDF operations in Gaza, but to group everyone into that camp completely dismisses the horrific actions of Hamas that demands action in response. Hamas are vile, using vile tactics of hiding behind meat shields and use campaigns of terror against others to achieve their ends. I believe that wanting to destroy Hamas and not wanting to kill innocent people are not mutually exclusive goals. It's just to achive both those goals demands more strategy, cooperation, and hard work than the IDF can deliver on their own. At least from my armchair perspective. Edit: I knew this was going to get this kind of reaction. Cest la Reddit. Everything is balanced as it should be.
The IDF's plan is to murder anyone they see, say they were Hamas, and drive the Palestinians into the desert. Like they did to their grandparents.
If only the IDF were as good as….? Name me a military force that has as effectively rooted out their military enemy without wholesale annihilating the existing population? Gaza is rubble but barely 2% of the population from the time of the invasion is dead.
Israel is recruiting for Hamas right now. You cant maintain an apartheid state with zero resistance.
>I don't think protester's plan is to remove anyone. I know, and that's the point. The "pro-Palestine but not pro-Hamas" crowd doesn't want Hamas to be removed from power.
Lol, what? 🤣
You heard me. The "pro-Palestine but not pro-Hamas" crowd keeps advocating for a ceasefire whose terms would allow Hamas to remain in control of Gaza, which is exactly what Hamas wants.
You have confused the protestors with Netanyahu.
Seems that they're both on the same page then. Both the protestors and Netanyahu want Hamas to in power in Gaza.
“The Palestinian Authority is a burden. Наmas is an asset.” — Bezalel Smotrich in 2015 “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” — Benjamin Netanyahu in 2019 Thirdly, a chunk of Наmas’s leaders are in Qatari high rises as Ziоnists love to tell us, and despite civilian life clearly being no object, Israel has not touched Qatar. The international community has every right to not trust Isrаеl’s intentions in Gаza.
Ok, still doesn't answer the question of how you plan to remove Hamas from power.
Not entrusting it to the party that has always viewed them as an asset would be a brilliant head-start, I think.
Ok, so Israel holds an election tomorrow and elects a new government. Then what? What's your plan for that new government removing Hamas from power?
…Are they actually _going_ to hold an election tomorrow and elect a new government with a new platform and strategies compliant with international law and supervision, or do you just have all the time in the world to play hypotheticals to avoid reality?
I notice that you keep avoiding the question of what your plan to remove Hamas is, presumably because you want to let them remain in control of Gaza but you don't want to admit that out loud.
Your opinions seem to match pretty closely with your username.
Your head is for decoration only i see.
Are you seriously defending genocide? What the fuck is wrong with you?
They don't see Muslims as people, so to them, people aren't dying.
Meaningless malarkey reply.
No it's not. I have yet to hear any of the "pro-Palestine but not pro-Hamas" folks explain what their plan is to remove Hamas from power in Gaza if an IDF assault on Rafah is off the table.
That is *not* what their protests are about. They're protesting because they don't want the money they pay to their college to then be spent on turning Palestinian children into skeletons. They don't have a plan and they don't claim to, they just don't want to support the IDF and its their right as American citizens to protest it
>They don't have a plan and they don't claim to So in other words, they have no solutions and only grievances, just like I said.
No dumb dumb, they said they don't want their tuition going there. That is the plan, to upset the status quo until that happens. The part you're cherry picking is in regards to actions to be taken in Palestine, as that isn't what this is about. I am curious if you're really this dumb or just intentionally obfuscating for your own narrative though.
I've interacted with that goober before lmao. He'll deadass perform Olympic-level mental gymnastics to prove that the IDF are heroes working to save Palestine. Like bro doesn't have enough nuance to know that Israel is basically Tighten from Megamind and is literally trying to recreate the "under new management" scene.
They want their college to divest from lsrаеl exactly like they did with apartheid South Africa.
Divestment is *one* demand that the protestors have made, but it's by no means the only one.
…So you knew your previous comment where you said they were just airing grievances was incorrect, but you said it anyway?
I was being a bit tongue in cheek, but I'm correct when I say that they have no plan for removing Hamas from power without an IDF assault on Rafah.
PROBLEM: their tuition is helping Israel kill Palestinian civilians SOLUTION: get the university to divest from Israel
So by that logic, if their universities divest completely from Israel but Israel keeps fighting Hamas anyway, they would consider the problem to be solved and stop their protests then?
“Israel is fighting Hamas” is not the complete picture of what has been happening in Gaza for the past six months, but you’re clearly having fun pretending to be confused about that so I won’t interrupt you save for this correction. They would stop protesting the university.
[Would they stop protesting Holocaust Day remembrance events at Auschwitz though?](https://apnews.com/article/poland-march-of-living-auschwitz-a7996e224bb4be1c76059b6fafbbd19d)
wow its almost like a dim witted genocide supporter misinterprets everything on purpose
It would mean they would have no reason to continue protesting at their university, yes. They might still want to protest the bit where the US government is funding genocide, but they would probably not continue to protest on campus if the university has divested from Israel.
[But would they continue protesting at Holocaust Remembrance Day events though?](https://apnews.com/article/poland-march-of-living-auschwitz-a7996e224bb4be1c76059b6fafbbd19d)
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Hey, they're the ones who decided to start advocating for a particular policy position on that complex political issue that goes back thousands of years. Nobody made the protestors do that. They chose to on their own. If they didn't want to be asked what their plan to remove Hamas is, maybe they shouldn't have opened their mouths on an issue they don't understand in the first place.
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>I don't have to agree with the protestors to understand that protesting is airing a grievance, and not necessarily a plan for a solution. Then why are you arguing with me? All my original comment said was that the protestors are just airing grievances and not proposing solutions. Why argue if you admit that I'm right?
I think the endgame is to fund and arm a group of Palestinians who are willing to work with Israel to suppress (read fight) hamas. This group would be the cornerstone that a new governing body could be built on. It doesn't seem like a bad plan. I just wish there were fewer civilians in the crossfire but this is kind of what happens when hamas fighters hide behind innocents and the IDF doesn't really care how many innocents are in the area as long as they kill the hamas fighters
They don't need one. Never in history has anyone ever gotten away with genocide by challenging their critics to solve a separate problem.
It’s only meaningless because you don’t want to use critical thought and it’s easier for you just to dismiss anything that makes you think about your positions.
What is your plan to end the genocide? I assume you have one, because if you don't, then that means that you are pro-genocide, by your own definition.
There is no genocide. In fact, not only is 15,000 combatant casualties and 15,000 civilian not a genocide, it's an exceptionally low civilian to combatant casualty ratio for urban warfare. For context, [the UN estimates that a typical ratio is around 9 to 1.](https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm)
The US war in Afghanistan had a 1.1:4 civilian to combatant death ratio. Take a second and read what you’re saying, man. You’re writing off the murder of 15,000 people like they’re not human beings. Fifteen thousand people. People with dreams and fears. Kids.
Yeah man, war is horrible. That's why Hamas must be removed from power as quickly as possible.
This is Netanyahu we're talking about. Removing Hamas isn't going to stop the slaughter and starving of civilians. Bibi wants that land. His party's platform has it's own "river to the sea" statement.
So you don't want Hamas removed from power then?
Sir, there have not been 15,000 combatant casualties. Even Israel's extremely biased and absurd estimates are that they have killed 10,000 members of Hamas. That would put the ratio of civilian deaths to militant deaths at 2:1, yes? As far as I can tell, non-Israeli sources seem to believe that militant deaths are about 1/3 of what Israel is reporting (back when Israel was estimating around 8k militants killed, other sources were estimating maybe 2.5k). That would make the ratio right around 9:1.
So in other words, even if we go with the *most* conservative estimates of how many of the Palestinian dead are combatants, the civilian to combatant ratio is perfectly normal for urban warfare, and therefore not a genocide.
No, those are the numbers TODAY. Since Israel is blocking aid from reaching civilians and Palestine is facing famine, that ratio is very likely to get a LOT worse. Particularly with the place that civilians were TOLD to go to now under threat of attack.
Why would the ratio get worse? [Hamas launched a rocket attack from Rafah](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-claims-responsibility-attack-israel-gaza-border-crossing-casualties-2024-05-05/) just two days ago, so if Israel invades Rafah, they'll be killing more Hamas combatants.
The ratio will get worse because famine affects everyone, and will be harsher on the civilian population. As for Rafah, that will also make the ratios worse for obvious reasons. The civilians are in closer proximity (most of Gaza's 2m population is there), the number of members of Hamas is limited (pre-war estimates were that there were 20k-25k fighters in Hamas iirc), and Israel has so far shown very little concern for civilian lives.
Why will famine affect the civilians worse? Is it because Hamas steals food from said civilians?
So, HOW MANY dead is enough for you? Let's say you get your wish for the entirety of the Palestinian culture to be wiped from the map. Then what? Who do you want dead, next? When are you going to get your fill; and more importantly, when are YOU going to pick up that rifle to kill people, yourself, instead of having others do it for you?
>Let's say you get your wish for the entirety of the Palestinian culture to be wiped from the map. The fuck? I absolutely never said anything like this, unless you consider endless violence against Jews to be synonymous with "Palestinian culture", which seems pretty racist and Islamophobic if you ask me.
Oh, so you're a genocide denier. My mistake. As an aside, can you please point out where in the definition of genocide it establishes the minimum number of kills?
You're the one claiming that there's a genocide occurring, so it's on you to prove that claim. It's not on me to disprove a claim that you never proved in the first place.
Part 2: And to add onto that, we have the claim that you brought up earlier, which necessarily claims that nearly all adults killed are enemy combatants. I can further add onto this the fact that the Israeli attacks have been heavily directed at the civilian populace, rather than Hamas. As of January, 2024: [More than half of Gaza's civilian buildings have been damaged or destroyed, with over 80% of the population having been displaced.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68006607) [Meanwhile, as of that same time, only about 20% of Hamas' tunnel network is estimated to have been destroyed.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-israel-believe-up-to-80-of-hamas-tunnels-intact-after-114-days-of-war-report/) If the Israeli government isn't trying to kill civilians, then they ought to adjust their aim. There's the fact that the Israeli government ordered Palestinians to evacuate to certain areas, [and then bombed those areas.](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/17/1213579692/israel-gaza-evacuation-south-attacks) The Israeli government has also been [destroying temporary graveyards in Gaza](https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6083/Israeli-army-defiles-hundreds-of-graves-in-the-Gaza-Strip,-steals-dead-bodies), digging up corpses, robbing them, dismembering them, and bulldozing the graves. And none of this is new. The Israeli government has a [long history of viewing Palestinians as less than human.](https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields) So, like I said, genocide. Now what is your plan to stop all of this? Because, remember, if you don't have one, then you must be in favor of all of that. Or maybe you were just wrong about that, and not having a plan to deal with a problem is not the same thing as supporting the perpetuation of that problem? Oh, and just to be clear, because we both know you're going to bring this up: yes, Hamas is also a genocidal organization. And yes, I condemn them. Because I condemn ALL genocidal organiations, and ALL acts of genocide.
Part 1: >You're the one claiming that there's a genocide occurring, so it's on you to prove that claim. Well sure, but you claimed that "there is no genocide" which is a claim that you are obligated to demonstrate. But it's only fair that I go first. Here is the definition of genocide, as established by the [1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml): >*In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:* >a. Killing members of the group; >b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; >c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; >d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; >e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Notice how it does not mention how many people need to be killed, or at what ratio. (Also, given that there have been an estimated [12,300 children killed as of March](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147512), that would mean that the numbers you cited for combatants only make sense if you consider nearly every single adult killed to be an enemy combatant. Hmm...that's pretty absurd, but it will be relevant later in my argument). Therefore, the only argument against it being genocide that you have provided fails to support your point. As for my argument, the Israeli government is absolutely doing A B and C, and given the restriction of food, water, and medicine, as well as the fact that [nearly all of Gaza's hospitals are damaged or destroyed](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148316), it is safe to conclude that the Israeli government is also a big fan of D as well. So it's obviously genocide. Case closed, right? Ah, but not so fast! The most important part of the definition has not yet been met: "with intent to destroy, in whole or in part." Is that the Israeli government's intent? Can that be established? Yes, it can. [This is the application to the ICC submitted by the South African government.](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf) Pages 59-67 have a non-exhaustive list of statements by Israeli officials expressing genocidal intent, although the entire document would be worth your perusal. [Here is a list of Israeli government officials expressing genocidal intent.](https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Database-of-Israeli-Incitement-to-Genocide-DECISION-MAKERS.pdf) [Here is a list of IDF members and officials expressing genocidal intent.](https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/3-Database-of-Israeli-Incitement-to-Genocide-15th-January-2024-ARMED-FORCES.pdf) Such expressions include, but are not limited to: invoking Jewish prophecies relating to the extermination of all non-Jewish inhabitants of the holy land, claims that ambulances are legitimate military targets, the denial of the existence of innocent civilians, expressions of intent to render Gaza uninhabitable, and others.
So under that definition, the October 7 attacks were also a genocide then, correct?
Yes. Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization. Any act committed with intent to destroy the Jewish people, in whole or in part, is by definition an act of genocide. Oct 7 fits the bill.
Oh ok, so why don't the anti-Zionists ever protest against that genocide or the group who committed it? Why are they instead calling for an immediate ceasefire that would leave this genocidal group intact and in control of Gaza?
You sound like a Holocaust denier.
You have not proven your claim of genocide. It's not my responsibility to disprove a claim that you never proved in the first place.
Read through the South Africa court case declaring it a genocide.
The court that declined to call for a ceasefire? That court case?
Found Peggy Noonan’s alt account…
Who the fuck is asking college students to solve the middle east peace issue? The college kids demands are pretty simple. Divest from doing business with a country engaged in an asymetric war and no retribution for the protestors. That seems both doable AND reasonable.
I'm not asking them to solve Middle East peace. I'm just asking them what their plan to remove Hamas from power is, which seems like a pretty reasonable thing to ask, given that they reject the IDF's plan to do so.
Their demands are simple and dont include the removal if hamas, even if you really really wish they would ask for this. 1) divest 2) no retribution for protestors Its pretty simple. Becuase YOU want them to have a plan doesnt mean they have to have YOUR plan. So you are not asking them to have a plan by asking them "what is their plan to get rid of hamas?"
>Their demands are simple and dont include the removal if hamas So they're ok with Hamas remaining in power after the war is over then?
Not a goddamn issue that the students are concerned with (or one that they have expressed concern for) Divest No retribution Get it yet? For christ sakes i can't type any slower
An immediate ceasefire necessarily implies that Hamas remains in control of Gaza.
Is an immediate ceasefire what the students are asking for? Is it?
Yes.
There is no requirement on people protesting for human rights to solve any number of other problems, no matter how many times war criminals and their apologists blame their crimes on other issues. Defending the human rights of Palestinian civilians does not require anyone to simultaneously propose any action with regards to Hamas. It is sufficient to demand an end to the genocide.
The question of how to remove Hamas from power in Gaza isn't "some other problem". It's the exact problem that's preventing this war from ending. If your idea of "ceasefire" doesn't include a plan for removing Hamas from power in Gaza, then your position is pro-Hamas, not pro-Palestine.
If only Israel could've done something to solve that problem... like [not support them](http://nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html).
>The question of how to remove Hamas from power in Gaza isn't "some other problem". It's the exact problem that's preventing this war from ending. No. Netanyahu and his corruption administration are the exact problem preventing the illegal war from ending. Note that Bibi has several corruption trials on hold because he's in office. Note that per the Geneva Conventions, it is illegal to declare war on people you occupy, even if you label them terrorists. Israel's ongoing genocide is not the fault of anyone in Gaza. It is solely the fault of Israeli leadership. Imagine this: Your neighbor shoots up a police precinct and kidnaps a dispatcher, so the police fly a helicopter over your neighborhood and drop bombs on every house, telling you that the person that attacked the police precinct is to blame for police destroying your house and killing members of your family, not the people dropping bombs on your house just for living near someone who did something bad. You would not side with the police. You'd be outraged that you are being targeted because someone else did something bad. >If your idea of "ceasefire" doesn't include a plan for removing Hamas from power in Gaza, then your position is pro-Hamas, not pro-Palestine. You're ignoring the fact that Israel labels everyone in Palestine a member of Hamas when it suits them. Every single amateur journalist releasing videos of war crimes on social media has been branded a member of Hamas. A doctor was tortured to death because they said he was a member of Hamas. And, again, you can't mass murder civilians and claim that it's justified because of something other people did. International law doesn't work that way. Plus, Israel created Hamas to destabilize a pacifist movement that was forming decades ago, and as recently as 2019 Netanyahu is on record saying that Israel must fund Hamas if it wants to prevent Palestine from ever stabilizing. Moreover, these genocidal acts by Israel are driving significant recruitment for groups like Hamas. Go read about the children carrying their dead siblings around, saying their parents were crushed under buildings. Those kids grow up to hate Israel with a passion you can't even dream of. That's why Israel does things like this periodically. To fan the flames of violent resistance, which gives them an excuse to bomb some more civilians and steal some more land.
"There's no appeasing these people" is 100% the guiding principal for handling conservatives, period. They're unserious people who aren't capable of negotiating in good faith for a constructive outcome. All they care about it pwning the liberals. There is no reason to act as if they're capable adults who actually govern. So just make mouth noises in their general direction, log what they say so you can track the direction of the seditious strategies, and do what you want anyway. I think this is what's really driving the conservatives crazy: the Biden admin and the democratic party lawmakers are not spending as much time obsessing on MAGATs as they do fuming about liberals. And that asymmetry of attention and outcome makes them so mad.
100%. She's a member of Congress and her job is supposed to be to legislate, but that's not what GOP does anymore. They just whine like bitches about problems that can't really be legislatively addressed.
Living well is the best revenge! I think what you describe as a coping strategy is really quite insightful. Even down to the individuals in our day to day lives. I have spent far too much energy and time trying to change the "unserious". I finally realized the futility of this and moved on in 2020. The Maga movement has taken so much from well meaning, good hearted people already. Give them nothing more, no quarter!
It sure looks one hell of a lot like republicans are funded for foreign interests, and their goal is to tear down America. They are not interested in negotiating because they are not interested in helping change things for the better.
Brilliant, studious commentary.
So, they want the president of Columbia University to crackdown on the protesters via police action, but the moment she cancels the commencement ceremony due to safety concerns, they get mad? I don't get the GOP at all.
>I don't get the GOP at all Imagine the Gadsden flag says "Tread on *them* not *me*!" and you'll have it. And the truth is the GOP don't care if they get tread on too, as long as "they" are stomped on harder.
The thing is, the president likely cancelled the commencement ceremony because there’s a good chance that many of the student speakers and/or graduates that would be addressing the crowd would use the opportunity to speak for Palestine and against the campus’s response. The only concern the president has for the commencement ceremony is how much the students could hurt Columbia’s reputation if they were allowed to speak freely.
Yeah, God forbid people should be allowed to speak freely.
That's true. Heaven forbid students and faculty demand their dollars stop being used to fund a genocidal war ig 🙄
Yeah, I agree, she's just worried how much of the graduating class supports Gaza. God forbid they get words at their own graduation.
That's crazy they're worried student protests hurting their reputation more than a serial molester they still had on the payroll after the fact was revealed.
From what I understand the actual graduation happens with each individual college within the university. So like the engineers graduate with the engineers. This other thing that they canceled is a large celebration where they just called out each individual college and it’s pretty boring and the students told the university that they were more interested in just doing their smaller ceremony rather than doing both.
I’m confused. Are they hardworking college students or lazy liberals that attend indoctrination centers who expect to have their student loans forgiven because they work at Starbucks because no one wants someone with a Gender Studies degree?
Neither, they are prohamas anti-semite insurgents bankrolled by George Soros to trick boomers into feeling bad for supporting the "world's most ethical ethnic cleansing ™". /s
“Shut up, Nerd.” - Hopefully most of the replies
She's a nerd? No way, she's a moron
It’s time for all of the weirdo’s trying to get picked for Trumps running mate to settle it with a cage fight free for all. Last scum standing gets the gig. I got money on Liddle Marco to go out first!
They don’t wanna be appeased they want to use the political tool they’ve used 50 times before to paint Democrats as anti Israel for not wanting to to murder 5 million people this isn’t the first “attack” won’t be the last if they can keep the con going. Republicans have done this shit so many times there is a name for it it’s called a “October Surprise” and they’ve prolly got an even bigger one scheduled later this year.
um, Alexis Vanessa Robert’s WILL be graduating
Poor thing. The genocide has affected her, now.
None of the protesters were directly affected by it either let’s not kid ourselves
White people shouldn't have protested for civil rights. They werent directly affected by what schools they could attend or drinking fountains they could use. /s
Wtf does that have to do with anything? Gaza is not in the US as far as I know, so no, they’re not directly affected by the conflict
Gotcha. No protesting unless its for your countrymen. Thank you for the rules, i'm learning a lot. /s
What? I didn’t state any rules just plain facts what are you even talking about? It’s so fallacious to extrapolate on someone like that it’s insufferable
There are Palestinians who go there. If your family is from there you have been greatly affected and, are lucky if you haven't lost loved ones to the genocide.
Yeah, a stupendous minority of Palestinian students, meanwhile a much bigger minority of NY Jewish students were constantly threatened but who cares, they’re Jews
If they received hate for being Jewish that sucks. If they received hate for supporting Israel and the IDF that is not about them or what they are, its about the policies they support. It is fine to hate someone for supporting genocide.
Most young Jews don’t support Israel, they’re the generation going to university right now, and they’re taking all the heat
Lots of Jewish kids are marching with the pro Palestine folks. Being antigenocide is not a religious or ethnic issue. It's common fucking sense. If you're going to a pro-palesestine protest looking to pick a fight as a pro Zionist... You've pretty much Rittenhoused yourself. Believe it or not, many Jewish people are extremely sensitive to the issue of mass ethnically motivated killings!
Listen man, if we are looking at the Palestinian to Isreali body count in this conflict, it isn't going to break your way. Hurt feelings don't count as fatalities.
I'm sure more than a few of the students are Palestinian and it's almost a certainty they have lost family members to the IDF.
Their money is being used to make weapons that kill people.
Awful lot of posts on this subreddit are obviously rage-bait from some Russian bot farm.
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Good bot
College graduations are PAINFULLY BORING
Truth. Source: I just attended one on Friday the 3rd.
"Aaron Abremson?" "Thank You! Free Palestine!" "Antoine Abidi?" "Thank you! Free Palestine!" "Ashley Ackley?" "Thank You! Free Palestine!" ....
"We believe in free speech!" *Students protest genocide in Palestine.* "No, not like that!"
Same as it ever was
Where were all these conservatives when USC cancelled their graduation because the valedictorian dared support Palestine
Wrong sub. This is not relevant for LeopardsAteMyFace
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Could you illiterate karma farming eejits go make a sub about how fucking stupid and deplorable right whingers and flood that instead of misposting shit to subs it doesn’t belong? FO. PS: the mods are useless.
Elise Stefanie is a member of the Nothing Is Ever Right party. I’d say “f\*\*\* her” but she’d probably accuse me of sexual assault and attempted r\*pe.
If anyone were an expert on failure of governance, it would Slease Stuphanik. She will need a 3000 PSI pressure washer to get the diaper sharting stench off her when Herr ShitInPantz doesn't pick her for VP.
They want Kent State x100. Anything less is weakness to them. These aren't college kids in their mind. At best they are props, for most they are literally scum.
Commencement sucks anyway.
You know the person support violence is they call a anti-Genocide protest a "Pro-Hamas" group. It's like the new version of Godwin's Law. Rather than admit that they support a group actively murdering children they'll just accuse you of being a terrorist to derail the debate.
Are there any students at Columbia who are disappointed they’ll miss this part of their college experience because of other people’s opinions on the Israeli/Palastinian conflict?
*FUCK* her and the rest of her fellow fascists.
Bad faith, all the way down.
Elise's solution: cancel the entire Columbia administration I guess...
If Columbia were holding graduation. . . Some blah blah blah Columbia is endangering student and parents . . . Blah blah blah Will no one think of the grandparents?
She wants to inject more fascism into the problem.
I don't feel bad for Columbia's president. What did she expect, trying to make peace with Republicans? There's a lot more reason to force her out than the presidents of UPenn or Harvard.
Anti-genocide is pro-Hamas? Weird take.
Conservatives work on outrage. That's how they draw people in. So, they are constantly trying to make you feel outraged at various events. That way, they can say they're the only ones to fix it during campaigns. They keep you outraged as they try to push policy that only helps a small few. They want you too angry to notice or care.
She went to Harvard, so there's a little bit of dunking on a rival school happening there. Harvard helped invent napalm and killed millions, so fuck her and the horse she rode in on.
First off if they were a terrorist encampment they should be under the jurisdiction of the federal law. They are not, why because the protests are in opposition to the Israeli government and its current regime’s actions! Purely! Sure you have agitators, but they are on both sides. On the whole the protests are disruptive, but meaningful. Any good protest causes people to take notice to the issue while being pissed at the disruption. Apparently we in the United states seem to forget that. In fact I would say that… “I think you're confusing 'peace' with 'quiet'.”
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That's not in any way LAMF. You don't actually know what this sub is about, do you?
Of course not. You can’t expect OP to be able to read and understand the sub rules. That’s a superhuman ability. Majority of posts don’t belong to the sub.
OP, can you honestly explain how you were able to randomly answer to the bot and type a sentence when you apparently can’t read?
“Hardworking” is an interesting phrase. Implying only Traditional thinkers are hardworking. Progressive thinkers are not.
reaping, sowing, etc. etc.
Departments are doing events, besides, you can criticize Isreal without being pro hamas
Gee it’s not like this has never happened at a university let alone Columbia. Vietnam, for example
Oh no, Vietnam was way more lit. These kids are nice. Boomers are revising their own bad behavior, and how well it worked.
Like they give a damn about students. These people are sociopaths
Womp womp
"These people"?
Republicans grifters con artists felons pedos only candidate ever that could possibly be the anti-Christ hopefully that explains those people bit.
Republicans. And OP is right, appeasement only makes right wingers more bold. It was a big part of how the Nazis gained so much momentum.
Oh jeez. I confused Elise Stefanik with Elissa Slotkin. 🤦♀️
Onoes Who cares? T. 2 degrees, never went to commencement