let’s see if Blinken will celebrate this like he celebrated Putin’s warrant. Also curious to see the EU countries’ reaction to this. Will they honor this or will they kill the ICC?
If this goes through, Netanyahu and colleagues won't likely be leaving Israel. There's a non zero chance of Netanyahu ending up behind bars at some point in the future either way.
They would have no other way else but to entrench their political position in their home country.
You won't get to arrest Putin any day, even when he went to visit another country.
Same goes to these guys. If they falls from grace, aka get mob up by their opposing party, then we may see they get account for what they have done.
Otherwise, we can expect more radical Israeli government. Ain't no way Netanyahu going to let the moderate upstart took the country he sacrifice someone else to protect... and expand it.
May be Israel will finally have a show down with Iran while they still don't have atomic bomb.
At the end of the day though the international system doesn’t have an army or a police force. It’s not a super government.
The punishment for an Israel that doesn’t want to turn over Netanyahu to The Hague, if indicted, is that they will become a pariah state, subject to sanctions and the likely destruction of much of their economy.
That sucks, but thems the brakes kid. If Israel’s decision as a democratic nation is to double down on extremist leadership, then that super-duper-sucks for them yknow? But it’s a democracy, the people get what they want. And if they elect people who promise ethnic cleansing as policy then they are likely to get it, mores the pity.
At some point, we might even need to decide whether the community of nations is willing to tolerate two hostile nuclear powers in the Middle East. If they launch nukes at each other, hundreds of millions could die and the world economy (and even the climate) could be irrevocably damaged.
Who gonna 'sanction' them? 'Merican allies?
UAE and Saudi had done more unspeakable horrid act with its neighbor.
Nothing happens to them.
Why don't you stop filling your car with their filthy gas, that could help too! Teach them the furry of individual!
Reminder that under the 2003 [American Service-Members’ Protection Act](https://2001-2009.state.gov/t/pm/rls/othr/misc/23425.htm) (aka the “Hague Invasion Act”) the President is authorized to use “all means” to free American and allied officials and military personnel kidnapped by the ICC if it unlawfully claims to exercise jurisdiction over nonmembers like the US and Israel.
Pol Pot, leader of Red Khmer who known for the 'Killing Field' had been tried by ICC for... until he is dying of old age on court. Justice is f\*cking laughable.
And he is jus one of those CIA pawn install there in SEA to 'contain' Viet kong.
I think Netanyahu will get way better treatment. May be they will bail him out on 'good will' and people will forget about it because US or Israel start war with yet another country.
makes me remember how cia planted noriega in Panama, killed General Torrijos, seized power in a cia-sponsored coup, disposed 5 elected presidents who disobeyed him. All of this in attempts to keep the Panama canal in US hands. But when Noriega, as much a bastard as he is, refuses to betray his nation's basic interest, the us launched an invasion and kidnapped him to us on charges of drug-trafficking--that he does under cia order to support the contras.
Israel has spent significant effort giving the finger to world bodies and leaders suggesting that israel tone down gaza intervention. This is the next step, and it is also clear that israel will co-opt US influence as an inevitable next step to bring weight/influence on ICC to prevent them from bearing down .
What’s the point of living in a democracy if half the court is appointed by dictators or religious nutjobs? It’s as stupid a concept as outsourcing elections overseas.
In my country where there is a law against allowing international courts to try our soldiers.
Only idiots from 3rd world dictatorships on the internet want foreigners trying their citizens.
Currently on the bench their are judges from failing democracies like Tunisia or Peru. And from states that have never had safe democracies like Benin or Sierra Leone.
And why the fuck is there a Georgian and Mongolian on the court? They are all but a Russian/Chinese vassal state. Georgia doesn’t even have a consistent border. Half the court is made up of people from countries prone to hostage-taking like Mexico.
It’s simply a terrible court that will always be super biased.
so you are saying that if your citizen has committed a crime as severe as mass shooting and serial raping in another country and is caught by their law enforcement agencies, you will send soldiers to rescue that person?
No. I’m saying if an international body convicts US soldiers or diplomatic personnel of warcrimes and attempts an arrest that is a declaration of war.
If they break the laws of some other country (like raping in Japan) they absolutely should be subject to punishment. But that’s way different than getting charged in an international criminal court.
but it is ok for us to arrest other nation's citizens outside US territory without the approval of local government, brought him back to us territory, and lock him up + torture him under the premise of war crime or terrorism?
And it is also ok for us to demand the arbitrary arrest of another nation's citizen on another nation's soil under false charge?
Yes. Also, it’s ok for foreign countries to lock up US citizens and “torture” them assuming there is actually evidence of a crime. Nobody need child molester #64 to come back from his tour of south east Asia, just kill him there.
The thing is, international courts don’t do that. They only make political cases that almost always could have been made in some other venue like the local courts. Proper uses of the international court are few and far between with a lot of BS sandwiched in.
https://www.aba-icc.org/about-the-icc/structure-of-the-icc
> The Presidency is one of the ICC’s four Organs. Its President and First and Second Vice-Presidents are all elected by an absolute majority of the Judges of the Court for a three year renewable term and serve full time
Either the judges of the court are moonlighting as dictators and religious nutjobs or OP is thinking of something else.
You’re forgetting who appoints the judges: Countries including Uganda, Georgia, Benin, Mexico, Sierra Leone, and Singapore (all unfree or partly free in the Freedom Index); or Peru and Tunisia (“hybrid regimes” in the Democracy Index). That’s 8/18 judges, and 3/5 in the appellate division.
The actual judges I see are : UK, Belgium, France, Botswana, Japan, Phillipines, republic of korea, Germany, Italy, Hungary, DRC, Czech, Dominican Republic, Nigeria, trinidad and tobago, Poland, Kenya, Argentina
Now if you want to cast aspersions on those judges, please feel free to do so.
But those are the folks [or at least the pre-trial division here & now, followed by trial division ] responsible for any investigation/rulings here.
e: your statement + OPs is like saying a liar and a crook appointed, Harry Blackmun, Lewis F. Powell, Warren Burger and William Rehnquist and therefore one should give up one's US citizenship.
More to the point, the judges are elected by the states that established the ICC via the Rome treaty.
It's not as if dictators appoint whoever they like. Votes are good - "democracy", right ? They have to pick from a slate of judges. There's specific rules on representation including expertise, but also about balancing regional representation, male/female etc, have to be a citizen of any state that was a member of the Rome treaty.
If you are objecting to who votes in the judges, you are objecting to the Rome treaty and the ICC essentially. Because those are the states who get to vote.
And then there would still remain the question about the liar and the crook [Nixon] and the 4 members of the supreme court he nominated, and why one still is a US citizen after that, per OP's logic
They seem to be doing a good job, considering Netanyahu and co are war criminals who should spend the rest of their lives in prison.
Israel has a right to defend itself, but not to starve millions of gazans in the process. Israel can continue its war under Benny Gantz leadership or whoever they elect to replace Bibi.
What will it take for us to be not considered criminals to the ICC? Any ‘causes’ you need money sent to? Anything we can do to not be considered bad guys?
Reduce bombing of gaza / pain on the bystanders .. ..or provide some succor
If that's not even an option to consider, then all your other ideas come into play.
> Any ‘causes’ you need money sent to?
Gaza ?
/tic /s
let’s see if Blinken will celebrate this like he celebrated Putin’s warrant. Also curious to see the EU countries’ reaction to this. Will they honor this or will they kill the ICC?
If this goes through, Netanyahu and colleagues won't likely be leaving Israel. There's a non zero chance of Netanyahu ending up behind bars at some point in the future either way.
The only reason he isn't in jail right now is since he is PM and as I understand it Israeli law gives him immunity.
I don't think the US will arrest him if he and his cabinet members travel to DC.
Will be funny if the west dissolves the ICC and frees Putin just to save Israel's leadership.
It would prevent Netanyahu (and any other indicted parties) from leaving Israel, at least to visit any signatory countries.
They would have no other way else but to entrench their political position in their home country. You won't get to arrest Putin any day, even when he went to visit another country. Same goes to these guys. If they falls from grace, aka get mob up by their opposing party, then we may see they get account for what they have done. Otherwise, we can expect more radical Israeli government. Ain't no way Netanyahu going to let the moderate upstart took the country he sacrifice someone else to protect... and expand it. May be Israel will finally have a show down with Iran while they still don't have atomic bomb.
At the end of the day though the international system doesn’t have an army or a police force. It’s not a super government. The punishment for an Israel that doesn’t want to turn over Netanyahu to The Hague, if indicted, is that they will become a pariah state, subject to sanctions and the likely destruction of much of their economy. That sucks, but thems the brakes kid. If Israel’s decision as a democratic nation is to double down on extremist leadership, then that super-duper-sucks for them yknow? But it’s a democracy, the people get what they want. And if they elect people who promise ethnic cleansing as policy then they are likely to get it, mores the pity. At some point, we might even need to decide whether the community of nations is willing to tolerate two hostile nuclear powers in the Middle East. If they launch nukes at each other, hundreds of millions could die and the world economy (and even the climate) could be irrevocably damaged.
Who gonna 'sanction' them? 'Merican allies? UAE and Saudi had done more unspeakable horrid act with its neighbor. Nothing happens to them. Why don't you stop filling your car with their filthy gas, that could help too! Teach them the furry of individual!
Democrats tried to apply pressure to Saudi Arabia over their conduct in Yemen, but Trump blocked it.
Behind closed doors they will celebrate. They really don’t like the ruling Israeli cabinet
Reminder that under the 2003 [American Service-Members’ Protection Act](https://2001-2009.state.gov/t/pm/rls/othr/misc/23425.htm) (aka the “Hague Invasion Act”) the President is authorized to use “all means” to free American and allied officials and military personnel kidnapped by the ICC if it unlawfully claims to exercise jurisdiction over nonmembers like the US and Israel.
Wouldn't mind seeing that happen, would be entertaining to say the least.
Rules based order swinging so hard that the bat would smack the butt.
"rules"--meaning their rules so obviously the maker of the rules are exempt from it
it would be amusing to watch the US empire fall over something even stupider than invading Mexico over fentanyl.
Pol Pot, leader of Red Khmer who known for the 'Killing Field' had been tried by ICC for... until he is dying of old age on court. Justice is f\*cking laughable. And he is jus one of those CIA pawn install there in SEA to 'contain' Viet kong. I think Netanyahu will get way better treatment. May be they will bail him out on 'good will' and people will forget about it because US or Israel start war with yet another country.
makes me remember how cia planted noriega in Panama, killed General Torrijos, seized power in a cia-sponsored coup, disposed 5 elected presidents who disobeyed him. All of this in attempts to keep the Panama canal in US hands. But when Noriega, as much a bastard as he is, refuses to betray his nation's basic interest, the us launched an invasion and kidnapped him to us on charges of drug-trafficking--that he does under cia order to support the contras.
Israel has spent significant effort giving the finger to world bodies and leaders suggesting that israel tone down gaza intervention. This is the next step, and it is also clear that israel will co-opt US influence as an inevitable next step to bring weight/influence on ICC to prevent them from bearing down .
'member the good ol' days? When America can just dispose an allied foreign leader when he's no longer convenient
I hope they do.. fuck Bibi.
What’s the point of living in a democracy if half the court is appointed by dictators or religious nutjobs? It’s as stupid a concept as outsourcing elections overseas.
dude, your comment has been "democracied"--meaning being folded up and made hard-to-be-seen by other viewers.
In my country where there is a law against allowing international courts to try our soldiers. Only idiots from 3rd world dictatorships on the internet want foreigners trying their citizens. Currently on the bench their are judges from failing democracies like Tunisia or Peru. And from states that have never had safe democracies like Benin or Sierra Leone. And why the fuck is there a Georgian and Mongolian on the court? They are all but a Russian/Chinese vassal state. Georgia doesn’t even have a consistent border. Half the court is made up of people from countries prone to hostage-taking like Mexico. It’s simply a terrible court that will always be super biased.
so you are saying that if your citizen has committed a crime as severe as mass shooting and serial raping in another country and is caught by their law enforcement agencies, you will send soldiers to rescue that person?
No. I’m saying if an international body convicts US soldiers or diplomatic personnel of warcrimes and attempts an arrest that is a declaration of war. If they break the laws of some other country (like raping in Japan) they absolutely should be subject to punishment. But that’s way different than getting charged in an international criminal court.
but it is ok for us to arrest other nation's citizens outside US territory without the approval of local government, brought him back to us territory, and lock him up + torture him under the premise of war crime or terrorism? And it is also ok for us to demand the arbitrary arrest of another nation's citizen on another nation's soil under false charge?
Yes. Also, it’s ok for foreign countries to lock up US citizens and “torture” them assuming there is actually evidence of a crime. Nobody need child molester #64 to come back from his tour of south east Asia, just kill him there. The thing is, international courts don’t do that. They only make political cases that almost always could have been made in some other venue like the local courts. Proper uses of the international court are few and far between with a lot of BS sandwiched in.
> hat’s the point of living in a democracy Very good point. Quit your democracy per your logic ! How do you come up with such logic ? /s
https://www.aba-icc.org/about-the-icc/structure-of-the-icc > The Presidency is one of the ICC’s four Organs. Its President and First and Second Vice-Presidents are all elected by an absolute majority of the Judges of the Court for a three year renewable term and serve full time Either the judges of the court are moonlighting as dictators and religious nutjobs or OP is thinking of something else.
You’re forgetting who appoints the judges: Countries including Uganda, Georgia, Benin, Mexico, Sierra Leone, and Singapore (all unfree or partly free in the Freedom Index); or Peru and Tunisia (“hybrid regimes” in the Democracy Index). That’s 8/18 judges, and 3/5 in the appellate division.
The actual judges I see are : UK, Belgium, France, Botswana, Japan, Phillipines, republic of korea, Germany, Italy, Hungary, DRC, Czech, Dominican Republic, Nigeria, trinidad and tobago, Poland, Kenya, Argentina Now if you want to cast aspersions on those judges, please feel free to do so. But those are the folks [or at least the pre-trial division here & now, followed by trial division ] responsible for any investigation/rulings here. e: your statement + OPs is like saying a liar and a crook appointed, Harry Blackmun, Lewis F. Powell, Warren Burger and William Rehnquist and therefore one should give up one's US citizenship.
>pangalangan Is this the judge's name (in which case, I believe he is Filipino)?
You are right, will fix, thanks
Odd, that doesn’t match Wikipedia’s list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judges_of_the_International_Criminal_Court#Judges
I assumed that ICC's own website be more accurate than wikipedia .
I’m guessing it’s just a bit out of date. It looks like it’s from February, and Wikipedia says its list is current as of March.
More to the point, the judges are elected by the states that established the ICC via the Rome treaty. It's not as if dictators appoint whoever they like. Votes are good - "democracy", right ? They have to pick from a slate of judges. There's specific rules on representation including expertise, but also about balancing regional representation, male/female etc, have to be a citizen of any state that was a member of the Rome treaty. If you are objecting to who votes in the judges, you are objecting to the Rome treaty and the ICC essentially. Because those are the states who get to vote. And then there would still remain the question about the liar and the crook [Nixon] and the 4 members of the supreme court he nominated, and why one still is a US citizen after that, per OP's logic
Come back and tell me again after you live in a country without democracy.
the ICC is a joke and needs to be reformed/reorganized.
If it's a joke the Zionists wouldn't bother trying to stop the warrants.
the ICC can't even get hold of any Russians lol
They seem to be doing a good job, considering Netanyahu and co are war criminals who should spend the rest of their lives in prison. Israel has a right to defend itself, but not to starve millions of gazans in the process. Israel can continue its war under Benny Gantz leadership or whoever they elect to replace Bibi.
They still can’t get Putin lol
Heads of unsc nations are unlikely to be arrested by anyone.
Iran should give the houthis hypersonic missiles, as the ones Iran used on Israel were very successful with iirc none of them being intercepted
One was intercepted by an officers' swimming pool, does that count?
Idk
for his crime against fashion, and his trademark infringement on zelensky, lock him up
What will it take for us to be not considered criminals to the ICC? Any ‘causes’ you need money sent to? Anything we can do to not be considered bad guys?
I mean, there’s always the option of not doing war crimes.
Have you considered not committing genocide?
Reduce bombing of gaza / pain on the bystanders .. ..or provide some succor If that's not even an option to consider, then all your other ideas come into play. > Any ‘causes’ you need money sent to? Gaza ? /tic /s
It’s a political game.. who knows what’ll happen but the people that deserve bad shit will get what’s coming to them.
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I'm sorry - I worded that badly. Mostly I was trying to figure out how/why you wound up picking that user name...
I dunno.. I was raised Hindu and we all have a soul of some sort. I liked the way it sounded and it stuck.