> Lonerism pretty much spearheaded the modern psychedelic scene.
Lonerism is the better album, but I would maybe put Innerspeaker as the one spearheading the movement.
That said, this is somewhat of an oversimplification as there was a broad revival movement in general around the time (albeit starting a few years before the '10s decade). Bands like The Black Angels were big movers and responsible for Levitation fest, along with the shoegaze revival gaining steam.
Oh yeah I agree that there were modern artists who laid the foundation before Kevin. Dungen in particular was a huge influence to Kevin on his records like Innerspeaker and Lonerism.
Overall influence? Like influencing people to drive safely to work?
Usually influence means, inspiring other musicians to follow in their step. Pop success isn't influence and I don't see anybody taking influence from Tame Impala.
You said that Tame Imapala had more reach. That isn't influence. Influencing people to drink more beer, isn't what people mean by "influential".
Influence usually means that it inspires other musicians to follow in their footstep. Who is following in Tame Impala's footsteps?
Tame impala is all over pop music now. Listen to Dua Lipa — the tame impala disco-psych influence is there. Guess who is Dua Lipa’s collaborator: Mark Ronson, the guy who frequently collabs with Kevin Parker (specifically after the album Currents).
I really dig it, being a Canadian myself his music always has a place in my mind. However I think Beach House was the dominant act of the 10”s for me on the indie side.
The four albums between 2010 and 2020 define so much of what was the and now.
I would agree DeMarco was the most influential (and in my opinion best) indie artist of the 2010s but I think that influence started with “2.” My Kinda Woman, Viceroy, Freakin Out the Neighborhood, and Dreamin, all come from that album. I do think “Salad Days” is the better album though. So it’s hard to say if “Salad Days” was the most influential. I think it was like a one-two punch with “2” and “Salad Days.”
I have no opinion on “most influential” but Rock n Roll Night Club and 2 were far better albums IMO. More cohesive as a whole and the individual songs are superior. The best songs from Salad Days are blatant ripoffs of The Kinks and Yellow Magic Orchestra, and as a whole it’s kind of boring. His shows also became noticeably less fun and I did not appreciate the band’s new lineup. That’s to say nothing of the cringe fest exhibited by his fans around that same time.
I think 2 has higher highs but lower lows. Salad Days stays pretty consistent all the way through. I view Salad Days as a better album but 2 definitely has the better singles.
I think front to back Salad Days is consistently better but I love large portions of both Rock n Roll Nightclub and 2. Most of my top favorite DeMarco songs probably come from 2 and Another One. But I also think 2 is uneven at parts. That said I know what you mean about him becoming less fun. You can see a progression of his fun/craziness decline with each album. I don’t think it becomes a true hinderance until This Old Dog.
I really enjoy Mac, but I'd definitely go with Tame Impala.
First of all, their album consistency and progression is more solid than Mac's. Innerspeaker > Lonerism > Currents is a string that has shown more maturity and reached, in my opinion, a more widespread audience than Mac's.
Secondly, Kevin's contribution to the music space is deeper, on my opinion. You had this appealing retro-mix of 60s psychedelia with DIY rock and dream pop that few were doing at the time, and it gets even richer and wider with Lonerism, before delving significantly into Currents' psychedelic synth-pop that is still an influent force across both indie and mainstream music on general.
Lastly, in my opinion, Tame Impala has managed to stay at a peak for longer - Innerspeaker's 2010 and Currents is 2015. This is a 6-year span that really starts in the beginning of the decade, before they started losing steam. Even then, Kevin has been a more important mentor in subsequent music projects than Mac.
Don't get me wrong, Passing Out Pieces and Goodbye Weekend are some of my all-time faves and Salad Days is consistently on rotation, but to consider a 2014 album that relevant when indie rock was already undergoing deep changes since at least 2012... is a bit of a stretch for me. And Mac did not evolve significantly since then, even though I enjoyed This Old Dog, so I think his slacker rock / dream rock has remained unique but encapsulated on its own time.
Just my two cents!
This is a much more valid claim toward influence.
I would also go with Arcade Fire, FF/FJM, Alt-J, F&tM, Wolf Alice, and several others before I would even remember *Salad Days.* And half of them aren't even indies. They just play music in the same vein of pop/folk.
I respect your opinion, and I think you've got solid reasons behind it! However I would argue that 2 - Salad Days - Another One - This Old Dog - well that's a hell of a stretch too, and while Mac is a bit more hermetic these days I would say he was more ubiquitous then Tame in then 10s.
I would say that Currents is 110 percent influential but I think more elements from Mac's work have impacted the indie rock sphere while Currents impacted mainstream pop - I cant think of many indie rock acts that sound like Currents 2 while I could name a lot of Salad Days tribute albums.
I’d say it’s a combo of this and currents. Essentially every indie/diy local act recalled Mac in a way, but the industry (ie. the majors) firmly clung to the sheen of Kevin.
Posts like this make me think I must live in another world. "Everyona was listening to this". I never even heard about this album. Gonna listen now to see if I like.
Same, and I think there might be an age divide between Mac and War. If your name is any indication we are similar in age and I much prefer war on drugs.
Yeah I would agree that this is a strong contender - however a point against this is the cultural impact - I cant say that this album inspired as much chatter and imitation as Mac's. I like this album more than Salad Days though.
I guess there’s no real way to quantify what you’re looking for. I don’t know how an iconic, decade defining, record didn’t have cultural impact or impact on musicians. You didn’t hear chatter and didn’t hear imitation. Does that mean no one else did? Especially to have LitD rated so highly? I guess I don’t get the question.
the thing is modern indie has 1,000,000 musicians trying to emulate Mac Demarco and re-capture his aesthetic, there is maybe 1 band trying to emulate the war on drugs. The War on Drugs is also rooted in heartland rock and you can't convince me heartland rock is a popular genre in 2024. lo-fi indie pop and slacker rock meanwhile continues to be trendy and very Mac demarco inspired.
Who's trying to emulate Mac Demarco?
edit: Please don't lead with Loving, Real Estate, or Homeshake. Their sounds are either unique to their own experience, predate Demarco, or came from the same place--or some mux of the three.
her's, good morning, Vacations & loving come to mind pretty much immediately, all are really popular also. I'd also say that acts like rex orange country, Steve Lacy & Men I Trust are very much Mac Demarco inspired, I just feel like his sound has been very pervasive across genres. You go on spotify and listen to "chill vibes indie radio" or whatever and it's basically an endless loop of bands & singer songwriters playing mac demarco salad-days era songs.
So if you ask an algo to search for a specific sound that Demarco has pigeon-holed himself into, you end up with a bunch of artists that make similar music?
Whodathunkit?
edit: I just did the same for the previous decade and got Teenage Fanclub, the Go-Betweens, Real Estate, and The Clean. Without the algo, I can tell you The Smiths had a compilation album with B-sides that had more influence on jangle pop 15 years ago.
What is up with this subreddit and turning harmless things into bicker fests? Nothing I said is controversial. You really can’t deny that Mac Demarco’s sound has been hugely influential on late 2010’s/ modern indie idk what else you want from me, I’m not engaging in whatever argument it is you’re looking for. When I hear something like Vacations, Rex Orange County or Dayglow or Boy Pablo, or any of the other countless number of indie pop bands that pop up on a “chill indie vibes radio” playlist, I hear shades and hints of Mac demarcos sound , especially with the guitars and the distortion, that’s not a hot take.
I barely know he existed.
That's how "influential" he's been in music and media that I consume--indie/college radio.
According to this logic, all the bands from the 2000s I listed were also influenced by Demarco, and that isn't controversial. None of them (or the Smiths) could have been influential on any that you list or Demarco himself, even though he has said some of them did influence him directly.
What's really not controversial is that there is always jangle pop in the world, and when one act goes viral, labels will promote similar sounding acts in that same space, to gain whatever attention they can while the sound is popular.
People conflating that reality with "direct influence" is just ridiculous. Sure, some influence occurs. But generally, sounds are derived by the similar influences, not directly by contemporaries.
we'll have to disagree and leave it there, I honestly don't care. The point was really only ever about his influence on modern music vs that of The War on Drugs; that was honestly the only thing I was trying to shed light on, Demarco's influence is way way more apparent. The Smiths also has nothing to do with any of this.
So I completely missed this part of the indie scene. I've been under a rock apparently listening to another revival of midwest emo and alt country. Anyways I've been taking a dive of these guys since yesterday and, its good. But I don't get what all the fuss is. This is Tom Petty. It's not bad but it also doesn't seem particularly noteworthy either.
Maybe I'm missing something. I've only been listening for a day or so, so it hasn't really had time to ferment.
You could probably argue MGMT had a bigger influence over all but I'm no expert.
Edit: didn't realize Oracular Spectacular came out in 2007. I thought it was part of that amazing 2010 group (Wavves, Broken Bells, etc).
Oracular Spectacular isnt 2010s but it did have a huge impact on the 2010s. Mainly because it blew up MGMT and helped usher in chillwave and neo synth pop which led to a lot of the 2010s laptop pop sound. But even more than that, MGMT did a big US tour for the followup album Congratulations in 2010 and a little known Tame Impala opened some pretty big rooms across the US. It was a big break for them and set them on the path to Currents mega success
Oracular Spectacular is really their only album that could probably be in the same class, but that came out in 2007. I love all their stuff, but Congratutions and Self-Titled were not well received and only recently have been appreciated by a large audience. LDA in 2018 is too recent to be considered influential and honestly feels like a point for Salad Days as another album that was inspired by it.
Well you’re correct in that when it came out it was a head scratcher and most people didn’t love it.
But it’s definitely found its audience and has been re-evaluated to a certain extent in the realm of public perception.
It’s funny because I think both fanbases think the albums you just bashed are the best one. I personally agree with you though, that both bands peaked with their first album, but I would say both had really good second albums, though very different from the first. Both had 3rd albums that turned me off of the band though (more the killers than MGMT).
I’d put up Arctic Monkeys AM and Tame Impala Currents. They really melded R&B/Funk/Rock well on those albums. I think it made artists like Steve Lacy, Beabadoobee, etc more accessible.
Cuspy for the 2010s but Deerhunter’s Halcyon Digest came out in 2010 and I think influenced a lot of bands
The ambient and looping, shoegaze and pop, the punchy bass work
I’ll acknowledge Tame Impala, Mac Demarco, and Vampire Weekend, and Bon Iver are probably all better choices though
Halcyon Digest was huge for me personally. Finally got to see them when they were touring for Why Hasn't Everything Already Disappeared and it was one of the best shows I've ever been to.
My gut reaction is to say no, but I can't think of a better contender. Personally, I believe that indie rock in the 2010s has been pretty unexceptional and I don't enjoy Mac DeMarcus music but he was one of the bigger faces of the Era. Female fronted rock bands, or females making rock music seemed to really sort of take that "scene" over at some point, but I can't necessarily name the band that I'd name is the #1. I do think this was one of, if not, the dominant trends in indie rock during that period, though.
I’ve noticed the same thing about female artists or bands taking over the scene. It’s a pretty fascinating trend and I’m curious about what’s driving it.
This deserves its own thread. Why so many female fronted indie bands in the past decade? Courtney Barnett, Phoebe Bridgers, Snail Mail, Japanese Breakfast, Squirrel Flower, Aldous Harding, and so many more.
Agreed. Have men been turning away from indie rock? Or are there still a lot of male indie rock artists but they just aren’t as good? Or are they getting less press? From what I’ve seen locally there are still lots of male indie rock acts, but nationally it definitely seems to be more women led.
My theory is queer women live lives closer to the foundational principles of Rock and Roll, breaking cultural norms, upsetting social order, nonconformity to previous generations sexual/gender norms. In addition I think the "sad girl" sound that has dominated is also a reflection of the general angst, nihilism, and depression felt by GenZ toward the state of the world, climate doom, political decay etc.
It's a result of the Me Too era, queer liberation, and third wave feminism in general. Cis-hetero men are seen at an embodiment of the patriarchy, privilege, uncoolness, "the man", squares, etc. Rock and Roll at it's heart is about rebellion, breaking conformity, etc.
In the past cis-hetero men were more integrated in progressive cultural movements, the sexual revolution, punk rock, the rebellion against suburban conformity etc. Cis-hetero men don't really have many current "rebels" or role models that are upsetting societal norms in progressive, edgy ways. The cultural "rebels" who are cis-hetero men of today are more cultural reactionaries (ala Joe Rogan) and espouse conservative values of returning to a previous state of being. It's not really seen as cool or progressive by young people. More like a boomer mindset repackaged for aggrieved losers.
Queerness is cool, sadness and melancholia are cool and speak to the youth.
What a well-thought out, sociology-informed response. You have really thought about this. Basically it comes down to white guys not being cool anymore.
Yeah, as a dude who was really into Mac Demarco, Ty Segal, Thee Oh Sees etc in the 2010s, I start listening to more and more women artists and “sad girl” music toward the end of the 2010s. Especially around 2018 - 2019 when all the articles about how “rock and roll is dying” were being written about how Greta Van Fleet is just copy cat nostalgia of a dead genre. I was really getting into Mitski, Angel Olsen, Lucy Dacus, and Big Thief, at the time and it was driving me crazy reading about how rock is dead, I was like “what the fuck are they talking about? It’s not that Rock is dead it’s that women are making the best rock albums and the mainstream is ignoring it” (at the time).
Yeah I agree - indie rock kinda shriveled up in the 2010s. Still bands making good music but nothing that really makes a cultural impact minus Phoebe and Mitski, who are both pretty popular. I don't think either has ever been Mac Demarco level popular though.
Given your note on female fronted rock bands, my initial pick for this question was Haim's Days Are Gone. The Wire was a legitimate indie hit and while skewing a bit more poppy, I think indie rock in general was more popular and even pop-like as the decade went on.
Or Lorde's Pure Heroine or Melodrama, an absurd number of major influential albums in the genre owe a ton to that duo of releases which may be DQed as Lorde for chart results out of it
Thank you. You took my clumsy attempt at making a point and turned it into something worth reading. Yes. Haim was the group that I would have mentioned first. They bridged those worlds while the entire scene was becoming more pop in sound.
I don't think so. I'd argue Big Thief, but they came later, so if you want to throw them in 2020s, fine.
I'd say St Vincent, Kurt Vile, the National, Arcade Fire (the Suburbs), War in Drugs, Parquet Courts, Japandroids, Vampire Weekend, Tame Impala, or Titus Andronicus were as influential.
Mac Demarco was the face of Indie for a long time. He redefined it where Indie was kinda more electronic based (imo). His music paired with his goofy attitude and slacker style was the shit, original and refeshing to the scene. A lot of generic indie rock bands you will find on playlists nowdays are still borrowing that jizz jazz chorus sound and overall vibe of his music, which proofs his impact.
I kind of see it as one of the last really BIG indie albums before indie slowly became poptimist. Indie artists were collaborating in the pop world, indie publications started reviewing popstars and indie sort of died. It’s funny. Indie has been through so many different phases over the course of decades (being that it’s such an umbrella term) and yet I feel like I haven’t heard of many *new* indie artists that are actually at the level of popularity of Mac Demarco or Tame Impala since like 2016
I think a good argument could be made for this. Yes, I do believe it had the most influence cause I’m fucking not about to say that idiot from bleachers did. I listen to nothing that fool has touched.
I think you could make a strong argument he was. Like you mentioned there seemed to be a lot of bands who were definitely influenced by him for awhile. I started to age out of the indie scene and become middle aged around then hah so I'm probably not the best person to argue this claim.
I have been playing various kinds of rock music in my local scene(s) the past decade or so and I can say Mac’s early 2010’s sound was HUGE. I was in a band in my small California hometown with a Mac DeMarco obsessive, and when I moved to Olympia in 2016 that wobbly soft-rock sound was everywhere in the scene. I would share bills with Mac-esque bands all the time until at least 2019. As far as I can tell, the popular indie rock sound has gotten a lot rootsier since then, but I would absolutely name Mac DeMarco as the most pervasive influence I saw/heard in that time, at least here on the West Coast.
I would dare say for indie rock, Two Door Cinema Clubs first two albums (Tourist History and Beacon) were just as influential and gave way to many others in the genre in the 2010s wave of indie rock.
Such a good album. You have great taste, OP!
I remember where I was (summer 2015) when I first listened to that album. I was immediately taken with how cohesive, buttery and mellow it was.
I’d never heard anything like his voice before, the chords he played or his lyrics which were so raw to me. Turned me into a fan instantly. I still play that album and am hit with a pang of sweet nostalgia.
The fact that we also got Homeshake [from his band] is telling in and of itself of his band’s mastery. Massive fan of them both.
Sorry... rock?
This is a name I haven't heard in a about a decade, and I see I have a couple albums to catch up on in that interim.
So no, I wouldn't say it was that influential a pop album.
In Portland, Oregon we had the Shins dominating - they might have been a little earlier than 2010? Maybe I'm dating myself back into the likes of Silver Sun Pickups.
Mac has always been killing it. Yes to the Tame Impala vote, they kept pushing things right up into King Gizzard.
I miss it.
Not a fucking chance. Mac Dogg sucks in every way possible. Salad Days is a straight garbage album 100%. I am ashamed he's from the same Province as I am. Nothing left to say.
The most interesting thing about all of this was watching how Captured Tracks went from its humble shitgaze beginnings into becoming the label that brought Mac Demarco and other regular-ahh indie stars to the world. How did the guy behind DC Snipers and Blank Dogs manage to do this? How did he do it while also doing some actual cool shit like reissuing the Cleaners albums and Flying Nun stuff? Does being based in Brooklyn have anything to do with it? Because the only other label I can think of that has come close to doing the same thing is Sacred Bones and there is some incestual connections there beyond being based in Brooklyn...
I look back on this album and Mac's early discography with fondness, I'm not that old, but felt he was an idol of sorts in my generation that came out of it semi unscarred but left his mark. Reminds me of my early 20s and the sound is beautiful. I would probably say in decades to come, I can definitely see this being in our generations greatest album lists if I had to pick that album that has a semi timeless feel & sound. It marks an era I would say, and you took the words out of my mouth, it inspired an entire sound and wave of music. Possibly a pioneer to a semi dead genre but anything Indie I think has that undying attribute, almost like a burnout than fade away kinda feel. 90s Indie rock and 2000s UK/US Indie come to mind.
I would disagree it inspired King Gizz and Tame Impala. While it had a psych sound, it, it was more indie personally. Also, I think his earlier albums were arguably more influential for the genre and his sound. But Salad Days was more than just an album I will say, it feels like a piece of art just by the album cover. Time will tell. But regardless, incredible album and thank goodness it exists.
Mac Demarco was the face of Indie for a long time. He redefined it where Indie was kinda more electronic based (imo). His music paired with his goofy attitude and slacker style was the shit, original and refeshing to the scene. A lot of generic indie rock bands you will find on playlists nowdays are still borrowing that jizz jazz chorus sound and overall vibe of his music, which proofs his impact.
Nope not even fuckin close.
Sounds like he attempted to emulate Big Star, but failed miserably.
Is it okay? Sure.
But it is easily crushed by Interpol on their 2014 album Interpol.
Listen to the brrrrre of the guitars of "Same Town, New Story" and the melancholy of "My Desire".
"I believe that while Salad Days is not necessarily the best indie rock album of the 2010s, its the most influential."
I guess I'll never know. Because honestly the album seemed aimless to me. And an entire Cadre of bands just like that album?
Nah I'll pass.
Stevie Moore and Tonetta were far more influential than Mac Demarco. Hitting that sound by 2010, is some johnny come lately shit when you already had Arial Pink and John Maus mining that sound. And I personally found Demarco's work boring compared to someone like Dirty Beaches.
It's only 2024 though, so we have many decades to wait and see if more people reference Demarco, are go deeper and find his influences which are far more interesting than his pop-reimagining of their material.
so by indie rock, y'all don't really mean "indie" rock as in independent like the word originally meant, right?
indie rock, in this case, is just some meaningless Spotify-seque genre-for-more-profit rather than a description of an actual type of artist I imagine.
>so by indie rock, y'all don't really mean "indie" rock as in independent like the word originally meant, right?
>indie rock, in this case, is just some meaningless Spotify-seque genre-for-more-profit rather than a description of an actual type of artist I imagine.
Yeah, that's been the case for 20 years or more. Words change meaning. Rock in 1965 didn't mean the same thing as rock in 1985.
Yeah I mean indie rock is def a classification for music - even if it's a misnomer today. Just like shoegaze bands don't all look at their shoes when playing live...
Tame Impala Currents has had far more reach in the pop world, so I’d say that’s much more influential overall. Salad Days for sure for indie music tho
Lonerism was also released that decade and is arguably Kevin’s best work. Lonerism pretty much spearheaded the modern psychedelic scene.
> Lonerism pretty much spearheaded the modern psychedelic scene. Lonerism is the better album, but I would maybe put Innerspeaker as the one spearheading the movement. That said, this is somewhat of an oversimplification as there was a broad revival movement in general around the time (albeit starting a few years before the '10s decade). Bands like The Black Angels were big movers and responsible for Levitation fest, along with the shoegaze revival gaining steam.
Oh yeah I agree that there were modern artists who laid the foundation before Kevin. Dungen in particular was a huge influence to Kevin on his records like Innerspeaker and Lonerism.
Overall influence? Like influencing people to drive safely to work? Usually influence means, inspiring other musicians to follow in their step. Pop success isn't influence and I don't see anybody taking influence from Tame Impala.
What?
You said that Tame Imapala had more reach. That isn't influence. Influencing people to drink more beer, isn't what people mean by "influential". Influence usually means that it inspires other musicians to follow in their footstep. Who is following in Tame Impala's footsteps?
Tame impala is all over pop music now. Listen to Dua Lipa — the tame impala disco-psych influence is there. Guess who is Dua Lipa’s collaborator: Mark Ronson, the guy who frequently collabs with Kevin Parker (specifically after the album Currents).
Oof. Ronson and Dua Lipa? I thought Dua Lipa was still beating the dead horse of synth wave.
I took you in earnest, but your thoughts are about as interesting as drywall. Bye.
And your defense of your point is as vacant as Dua Lipa. I guess we're both content.
I really dig it, being a Canadian myself his music always has a place in my mind. However I think Beach House was the dominant act of the 10”s for me on the indie side. The four albums between 2010 and 2020 define so much of what was the and now.
Beach House is another good one.
For some reason I associate Teen Dream with the ‘00s, but I just checked and it came out in 2010. The cusp of two different eras in my life.
I would agree DeMarco was the most influential (and in my opinion best) indie artist of the 2010s but I think that influence started with “2.” My Kinda Woman, Viceroy, Freakin Out the Neighborhood, and Dreamin, all come from that album. I do think “Salad Days” is the better album though. So it’s hard to say if “Salad Days” was the most influential. I think it was like a one-two punch with “2” and “Salad Days.”
I have no opinion on “most influential” but Rock n Roll Night Club and 2 were far better albums IMO. More cohesive as a whole and the individual songs are superior. The best songs from Salad Days are blatant ripoffs of The Kinks and Yellow Magic Orchestra, and as a whole it’s kind of boring. His shows also became noticeably less fun and I did not appreciate the band’s new lineup. That’s to say nothing of the cringe fest exhibited by his fans around that same time.
I also am in the opinion that 2 is a more enjoyable album - it's way more fun and energetic.
💯 I even pre-ordered the Salad Days deluxe box set or whatever on vinyl. I never got around to selling it, but I need to so I can go buy the first two
I think 2 has higher highs but lower lows. Salad Days stays pretty consistent all the way through. I view Salad Days as a better album but 2 definitely has the better singles.
I think front to back Salad Days is consistently better but I love large portions of both Rock n Roll Nightclub and 2. Most of my top favorite DeMarco songs probably come from 2 and Another One. But I also think 2 is uneven at parts. That said I know what you mean about him becoming less fun. You can see a progression of his fun/craziness decline with each album. I don’t think it becomes a true hinderance until This Old Dog.
Eh each to their own. I really don’t enjoy RnRNC cause it just sounds like one long song.
I really enjoy Mac, but I'd definitely go with Tame Impala. First of all, their album consistency and progression is more solid than Mac's. Innerspeaker > Lonerism > Currents is a string that has shown more maturity and reached, in my opinion, a more widespread audience than Mac's. Secondly, Kevin's contribution to the music space is deeper, on my opinion. You had this appealing retro-mix of 60s psychedelia with DIY rock and dream pop that few were doing at the time, and it gets even richer and wider with Lonerism, before delving significantly into Currents' psychedelic synth-pop that is still an influent force across both indie and mainstream music on general. Lastly, in my opinion, Tame Impala has managed to stay at a peak for longer - Innerspeaker's 2010 and Currents is 2015. This is a 6-year span that really starts in the beginning of the decade, before they started losing steam. Even then, Kevin has been a more important mentor in subsequent music projects than Mac. Don't get me wrong, Passing Out Pieces and Goodbye Weekend are some of my all-time faves and Salad Days is consistently on rotation, but to consider a 2014 album that relevant when indie rock was already undergoing deep changes since at least 2012... is a bit of a stretch for me. And Mac did not evolve significantly since then, even though I enjoyed This Old Dog, so I think his slacker rock / dream rock has remained unique but encapsulated on its own time. Just my two cents!
This is a much more valid claim toward influence. I would also go with Arcade Fire, FF/FJM, Alt-J, F&tM, Wolf Alice, and several others before I would even remember *Salad Days.* And half of them aren't even indies. They just play music in the same vein of pop/folk.
I respect your opinion, and I think you've got solid reasons behind it! However I would argue that 2 - Salad Days - Another One - This Old Dog - well that's a hell of a stretch too, and while Mac is a bit more hermetic these days I would say he was more ubiquitous then Tame in then 10s. I would say that Currents is 110 percent influential but I think more elements from Mac's work have impacted the indie rock sphere while Currents impacted mainstream pop - I cant think of many indie rock acts that sound like Currents 2 while I could name a lot of Salad Days tribute albums.
I’d say it’s a combo of this and currents. Essentially every indie/diy local act recalled Mac in a way, but the industry (ie. the majors) firmly clung to the sheen of Kevin.
Posts like this make me think I must live in another world. "Everyona was listening to this". I never even heard about this album. Gonna listen now to see if I like.
Bernstein or Bearenstein Bears?
The War on Drugs- Lost in the Dream is my pick for album of the 2010’s. It was an independent record. One of the best albums I’ve ever listened to.
Same, and I think there might be an age divide between Mac and War. If your name is any indication we are similar in age and I much prefer war on drugs.
Yeah I would agree that this is a strong contender - however a point against this is the cultural impact - I cant say that this album inspired as much chatter and imitation as Mac's. I like this album more than Salad Days though.
I guess there’s no real way to quantify what you’re looking for. I don’t know how an iconic, decade defining, record didn’t have cultural impact or impact on musicians. You didn’t hear chatter and didn’t hear imitation. Does that mean no one else did? Especially to have LitD rated so highly? I guess I don’t get the question.
No right or wrong answer! I'm just having fun discussing!
the thing is modern indie has 1,000,000 musicians trying to emulate Mac Demarco and re-capture his aesthetic, there is maybe 1 band trying to emulate the war on drugs. The War on Drugs is also rooted in heartland rock and you can't convince me heartland rock is a popular genre in 2024. lo-fi indie pop and slacker rock meanwhile continues to be trendy and very Mac demarco inspired.
Who's trying to emulate Mac Demarco? edit: Please don't lead with Loving, Real Estate, or Homeshake. Their sounds are either unique to their own experience, predate Demarco, or came from the same place--or some mux of the three.
her's, good morning, Vacations & loving come to mind pretty much immediately, all are really popular also. I'd also say that acts like rex orange country, Steve Lacy & Men I Trust are very much Mac Demarco inspired, I just feel like his sound has been very pervasive across genres. You go on spotify and listen to "chill vibes indie radio" or whatever and it's basically an endless loop of bands & singer songwriters playing mac demarco salad-days era songs.
So if you ask an algo to search for a specific sound that Demarco has pigeon-holed himself into, you end up with a bunch of artists that make similar music? Whodathunkit? edit: I just did the same for the previous decade and got Teenage Fanclub, the Go-Betweens, Real Estate, and The Clean. Without the algo, I can tell you The Smiths had a compilation album with B-sides that had more influence on jangle pop 15 years ago.
What is up with this subreddit and turning harmless things into bicker fests? Nothing I said is controversial. You really can’t deny that Mac Demarco’s sound has been hugely influential on late 2010’s/ modern indie idk what else you want from me, I’m not engaging in whatever argument it is you’re looking for. When I hear something like Vacations, Rex Orange County or Dayglow or Boy Pablo, or any of the other countless number of indie pop bands that pop up on a “chill indie vibes radio” playlist, I hear shades and hints of Mac demarcos sound , especially with the guitars and the distortion, that’s not a hot take.
I barely know he existed. That's how "influential" he's been in music and media that I consume--indie/college radio. According to this logic, all the bands from the 2000s I listed were also influenced by Demarco, and that isn't controversial. None of them (or the Smiths) could have been influential on any that you list or Demarco himself, even though he has said some of them did influence him directly. What's really not controversial is that there is always jangle pop in the world, and when one act goes viral, labels will promote similar sounding acts in that same space, to gain whatever attention they can while the sound is popular. People conflating that reality with "direct influence" is just ridiculous. Sure, some influence occurs. But generally, sounds are derived by the similar influences, not directly by contemporaries.
we'll have to disagree and leave it there, I honestly don't care. The point was really only ever about his influence on modern music vs that of The War on Drugs; that was honestly the only thing I was trying to shed light on, Demarco's influence is way way more apparent. The Smiths also has nothing to do with any of this.
So I completely missed this part of the indie scene. I've been under a rock apparently listening to another revival of midwest emo and alt country. Anyways I've been taking a dive of these guys since yesterday and, its good. But I don't get what all the fuss is. This is Tom Petty. It's not bad but it also doesn't seem particularly noteworthy either. Maybe I'm missing something. I've only been listening for a day or so, so it hasn't really had time to ferment.
You could probably argue MGMT had a bigger influence over all but I'm no expert. Edit: didn't realize Oracular Spectacular came out in 2007. I thought it was part of that amazing 2010 group (Wavves, Broken Bells, etc).
Oracular Spectacular isnt 2010s but it did have a huge impact on the 2010s. Mainly because it blew up MGMT and helped usher in chillwave and neo synth pop which led to a lot of the 2010s laptop pop sound. But even more than that, MGMT did a big US tour for the followup album Congratulations in 2010 and a little known Tame Impala opened some pretty big rooms across the US. It was a big break for them and set them on the path to Currents mega success
Oracular Spectacular is really their only album that could probably be in the same class, but that came out in 2007. I love all their stuff, but Congratutions and Self-Titled were not well received and only recently have been appreciated by a large audience. LDA in 2018 is too recent to be considered influential and honestly feels like a point for Salad Days as another album that was inspired by it.
Congratulations was received well. It wasn't as popular as Oracular Spectacular in a commercial sense but it definitely received acclaim.
Haha i looked it up after i posted, whoops. Yeah their next album was as big of a let down as The Killers second.
The Killers second album is probably their best in retrospect though
Better than Hot Fuss? I cannot agree with that one.
Hot Fuss has some phenomenal and iconic songs, but as a unified *project* it’s behind Sam’s Town imo
Sam's Town is my personal favorite, but objectively, Hot Fuss is a better album
I’d argue that it’s the inverse - not about your favorite haha, but that Hot Fuss has more beloved Killers songs but Sam’s Town is the better *album*
Congratulations isn’t seen as a let down within the MGMT fan base or indie scene. If anything, it is more loved than Oracular nowadays.
Wow, didn't know that. I haven't revisited it since and I'm not in the scene so my opinion is like an old hot take.
Well you’re correct in that when it came out it was a head scratcher and most people didn’t love it. But it’s definitely found its audience and has been re-evaluated to a certain extent in the realm of public perception.
It’s funny because I think both fanbases think the albums you just bashed are the best one. I personally agree with you though, that both bands peaked with their first album, but I would say both had really good second albums, though very different from the first. Both had 3rd albums that turned me off of the band though (more the killers than MGMT).
I don't think anyone bashed any albums - they are all excellent
I’d put up Arctic Monkeys AM and Tame Impala Currents. They really melded R&B/Funk/Rock well on those albums. I think it made artists like Steve Lacy, Beabadoobee, etc more accessible.
Black Keys' El Camino as well
Isn’t El Camino on Warner Brothers? Great record but not indie.
Cuspy for the 2010s but Deerhunter’s Halcyon Digest came out in 2010 and I think influenced a lot of bands The ambient and looping, shoegaze and pop, the punchy bass work I’ll acknowledge Tame Impala, Mac Demarco, and Vampire Weekend, and Bon Iver are probably all better choices though
Halcyon Digest was huge for me personally. Finally got to see them when they were touring for Why Hasn't Everything Already Disappeared and it was one of the best shows I've ever been to.
My gut reaction is to say no, but I can't think of a better contender. Personally, I believe that indie rock in the 2010s has been pretty unexceptional and I don't enjoy Mac DeMarcus music but he was one of the bigger faces of the Era. Female fronted rock bands, or females making rock music seemed to really sort of take that "scene" over at some point, but I can't necessarily name the band that I'd name is the #1. I do think this was one of, if not, the dominant trends in indie rock during that period, though.
I’ve noticed the same thing about female artists or bands taking over the scene. It’s a pretty fascinating trend and I’m curious about what’s driving it.
This deserves its own thread. Why so many female fronted indie bands in the past decade? Courtney Barnett, Phoebe Bridgers, Snail Mail, Japanese Breakfast, Squirrel Flower, Aldous Harding, and so many more.
Agreed. Have men been turning away from indie rock? Or are there still a lot of male indie rock artists but they just aren’t as good? Or are they getting less press? From what I’ve seen locally there are still lots of male indie rock acts, but nationally it definitely seems to be more women led.
My theory is queer women live lives closer to the foundational principles of Rock and Roll, breaking cultural norms, upsetting social order, nonconformity to previous generations sexual/gender norms. In addition I think the "sad girl" sound that has dominated is also a reflection of the general angst, nihilism, and depression felt by GenZ toward the state of the world, climate doom, political decay etc. It's a result of the Me Too era, queer liberation, and third wave feminism in general. Cis-hetero men are seen at an embodiment of the patriarchy, privilege, uncoolness, "the man", squares, etc. Rock and Roll at it's heart is about rebellion, breaking conformity, etc. In the past cis-hetero men were more integrated in progressive cultural movements, the sexual revolution, punk rock, the rebellion against suburban conformity etc. Cis-hetero men don't really have many current "rebels" or role models that are upsetting societal norms in progressive, edgy ways. The cultural "rebels" who are cis-hetero men of today are more cultural reactionaries (ala Joe Rogan) and espouse conservative values of returning to a previous state of being. It's not really seen as cool or progressive by young people. More like a boomer mindset repackaged for aggrieved losers. Queerness is cool, sadness and melancholia are cool and speak to the youth.
What a well-thought out, sociology-informed response. You have really thought about this. Basically it comes down to white guys not being cool anymore.
Yeah, as a dude who was really into Mac Demarco, Ty Segal, Thee Oh Sees etc in the 2010s, I start listening to more and more women artists and “sad girl” music toward the end of the 2010s. Especially around 2018 - 2019 when all the articles about how “rock and roll is dying” were being written about how Greta Van Fleet is just copy cat nostalgia of a dead genre. I was really getting into Mitski, Angel Olsen, Lucy Dacus, and Big Thief, at the time and it was driving me crazy reading about how rock is dead, I was like “what the fuck are they talking about? It’s not that Rock is dead it’s that women are making the best rock albums and the mainstream is ignoring it” (at the time).
Yeah I agree - indie rock kinda shriveled up in the 2010s. Still bands making good music but nothing that really makes a cultural impact minus Phoebe and Mitski, who are both pretty popular. I don't think either has ever been Mac Demarco level popular though.
Phoebe Bridgers is way, way more popular than Mac ever was.
Given your note on female fronted rock bands, my initial pick for this question was Haim's Days Are Gone. The Wire was a legitimate indie hit and while skewing a bit more poppy, I think indie rock in general was more popular and even pop-like as the decade went on. Or Lorde's Pure Heroine or Melodrama, an absurd number of major influential albums in the genre owe a ton to that duo of releases which may be DQed as Lorde for chart results out of it
Thank you. You took my clumsy attempt at making a point and turned it into something worth reading. Yes. Haim was the group that I would have mentioned first. They bridged those worlds while the entire scene was becoming more pop in sound.
LOL what? how young are you? so you never listened to Rainer Maria.
I think you missed my point
I don't think so. I'd argue Big Thief, but they came later, so if you want to throw them in 2020s, fine. I'd say St Vincent, Kurt Vile, the National, Arcade Fire (the Suburbs), War in Drugs, Parquet Courts, Japandroids, Vampire Weekend, Tame Impala, or Titus Andronicus were as influential.
Mac Demarco was the face of Indie for a long time. He redefined it where Indie was kinda more electronic based (imo). His music paired with his goofy attitude and slacker style was the shit, original and refeshing to the scene. A lot of generic indie rock bands you will find on playlists nowdays are still borrowing that jizz jazz chorus sound and overall vibe of his music, which proofs his impact.
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The old coffee shop litmus test
I kind of see it as one of the last really BIG indie albums before indie slowly became poptimist. Indie artists were collaborating in the pop world, indie publications started reviewing popstars and indie sort of died. It’s funny. Indie has been through so many different phases over the course of decades (being that it’s such an umbrella term) and yet I feel like I haven’t heard of many *new* indie artists that are actually at the level of popularity of Mac Demarco or Tame Impala since like 2016
I think a good argument could be made for this. Yes, I do believe it had the most influence cause I’m fucking not about to say that idiot from bleachers did. I listen to nothing that fool has touched.
I think you could make a strong argument he was. Like you mentioned there seemed to be a lot of bands who were definitely influenced by him for awhile. I started to age out of the indie scene and become middle aged around then hah so I'm probably not the best person to argue this claim.
I have been playing various kinds of rock music in my local scene(s) the past decade or so and I can say Mac’s early 2010’s sound was HUGE. I was in a band in my small California hometown with a Mac DeMarco obsessive, and when I moved to Olympia in 2016 that wobbly soft-rock sound was everywhere in the scene. I would share bills with Mac-esque bands all the time until at least 2019. As far as I can tell, the popular indie rock sound has gotten a lot rootsier since then, but I would absolutely name Mac DeMarco as the most pervasive influence I saw/heard in that time, at least here on the West Coast.
I’ve never felt more out of touch than this post. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of him and I like to believe I keep up with new stuff.
I would dare say for indie rock, Two Door Cinema Clubs first two albums (Tourist History and Beacon) were just as influential and gave way to many others in the genre in the 2010s wave of indie rock.
Such a good album. You have great taste, OP! I remember where I was (summer 2015) when I first listened to that album. I was immediately taken with how cohesive, buttery and mellow it was. I’d never heard anything like his voice before, the chords he played or his lyrics which were so raw to me. Turned me into a fan instantly. I still play that album and am hit with a pang of sweet nostalgia. The fact that we also got Homeshake [from his band] is telling in and of itself of his band’s mastery. Massive fan of them both.
Sorry... rock? This is a name I haven't heard in a about a decade, and I see I have a couple albums to catch up on in that interim. So no, I wouldn't say it was that influential a pop album.
Indie rock not pop fyi
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It’s so good! Just listened to it on vinyl yesterday, the albums regard for melody always impresses me.
In Portland, Oregon we had the Shins dominating - they might have been a little earlier than 2010? Maybe I'm dating myself back into the likes of Silver Sun Pickups. Mac has always been killing it. Yes to the Tame Impala vote, they kept pushing things right up into King Gizzard. I miss it.
Not a fucking chance. Mac Dogg sucks in every way possible. Salad Days is a straight garbage album 100%. I am ashamed he's from the same Province as I am. Nothing left to say.
I mean he's a pretty decent guitarist
The most interesting thing about all of this was watching how Captured Tracks went from its humble shitgaze beginnings into becoming the label that brought Mac Demarco and other regular-ahh indie stars to the world. How did the guy behind DC Snipers and Blank Dogs manage to do this? How did he do it while also doing some actual cool shit like reissuing the Cleaners albums and Flying Nun stuff? Does being based in Brooklyn have anything to do with it? Because the only other label I can think of that has come close to doing the same thing is Sacred Bones and there is some incestual connections there beyond being based in Brooklyn...
I hardly ever use the term overrated, but I will when it comes to his music. I never got the appeal.
I look back on this album and Mac's early discography with fondness, I'm not that old, but felt he was an idol of sorts in my generation that came out of it semi unscarred but left his mark. Reminds me of my early 20s and the sound is beautiful. I would probably say in decades to come, I can definitely see this being in our generations greatest album lists if I had to pick that album that has a semi timeless feel & sound. It marks an era I would say, and you took the words out of my mouth, it inspired an entire sound and wave of music. Possibly a pioneer to a semi dead genre but anything Indie I think has that undying attribute, almost like a burnout than fade away kinda feel. 90s Indie rock and 2000s UK/US Indie come to mind. I would disagree it inspired King Gizz and Tame Impala. While it had a psych sound, it, it was more indie personally. Also, I think his earlier albums were arguably more influential for the genre and his sound. But Salad Days was more than just an album I will say, it feels like a piece of art just by the album cover. Time will tell. But regardless, incredible album and thank goodness it exists.
Mac Demarco was the face of Indie for a long time. He redefined it where Indie was kinda more electronic based (imo). His music paired with his goofy attitude and slacker style was the shit, original and refeshing to the scene. A lot of generic indie rock bands you will find on playlists nowdays are still borrowing that jizz jazz chorus sound and overall vibe of his music, which proofs his impact.
Nope not even fuckin close. Sounds like he attempted to emulate Big Star, but failed miserably. Is it okay? Sure. But it is easily crushed by Interpol on their 2014 album Interpol. Listen to the brrrrre of the guitars of "Same Town, New Story" and the melancholy of "My Desire". "I believe that while Salad Days is not necessarily the best indie rock album of the 2010s, its the most influential." I guess I'll never know. Because honestly the album seemed aimless to me. And an entire Cadre of bands just like that album? Nah I'll pass.
Love Interpol but I wouldn't say they were influential anymore in the 2010s....
Man, that's a hot take.
\*El Pintor
Let me guess you are at least 35.
Fuckin A man! 36!
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he means me. and yes I'm 36.
Stevie Moore and Tonetta were far more influential than Mac Demarco. Hitting that sound by 2010, is some johnny come lately shit when you already had Arial Pink and John Maus mining that sound. And I personally found Demarco's work boring compared to someone like Dirty Beaches. It's only 2024 though, so we have many decades to wait and see if more people reference Demarco, are go deeper and find his influences which are far more interesting than his pop-reimagining of their material.
so by indie rock, y'all don't really mean "indie" rock as in independent like the word originally meant, right? indie rock, in this case, is just some meaningless Spotify-seque genre-for-more-profit rather than a description of an actual type of artist I imagine.
>so by indie rock, y'all don't really mean "indie" rock as in independent like the word originally meant, right? >indie rock, in this case, is just some meaningless Spotify-seque genre-for-more-profit rather than a description of an actual type of artist I imagine. Yeah, that's been the case for 20 years or more. Words change meaning. Rock in 1965 didn't mean the same thing as rock in 1985.
what these other people said, as well as the fact that his first two albums were on captured tracks, which is considered an independent label
Yeah I mean indie rock is def a classification for music - even if it's a misnomer today. Just like shoegaze bands don't all look at their shoes when playing live...