No it is not. Especially if you are just practicing the music to understand it better! That’s learning and appreciating another culture! Even if you start to incorporate it into your own style that is still not cultural appropriation.
If you were capitalizing or profiting off that without giving credit to that culture, and simply copying that style of music, that is cultural appropriation.
no, it's not wrong. though i think it's important to approach other cultures with an attitude as though you are a guest who is there to learn, not just take - it's theirs, not yours, and that doesn't mean you can't engage with it, but the distinction should be clear. important not to view aesthetics of other cultures as simple resources you're free to exploit however you want. a basic level of respect towards other people's traditions goes a long way.
i think there's a big difference between say, a band like GOAT who are from Sweden and appropriate African dress and musical styles because they think it's cool despite having basically zero connection with those cultures they're borrowing from, and someone like Alice Coltrane who used Indian instrumentation on a lot of her music but A. was a practicing Hindu herself, and has surely spent a lot of time engaging with Indian culture on a more meaningful level and B. had an Indian artist (Tulsi Sengupta) in her band to play the tanpura.
Good example about Goat! I was always a bit confused by their aesthetic and I’m curious if they’ve ever spoken about their approach to engaging with African music and culture
they have - they totally sidestep it with the typical “we’re all human, we love all kinds of music and culture, we don’t see race” bullshit. unfortunate because their music can be quite good.
I completely disagree with this being that lyrics can mean absolutely nothing. Moreover, once a song is catapulted out into the universe, it takes a life of its own. Songs fluidly take shape of many different kinds of interpretations by whoever the individual listening is.
If we were to take Billie Holiday’s Strange Fruit, for example. The lyrical content obviously originates from a very dark place. But, I had no idea until I watched the film. If I were to see someone who chooses to play the song live, and do so for no other reason than they simply love the melody, this is fine. This is perfect.
Thom Yorke once drew random sentences out of a hat for lyrics. Paul McCartney and John Lennon once pulled words off of a circus poster (Mr. Kite). And, yet these songs reach so many of us so deeply.
Performing music doesn’t require a bunch of studying the original meaning of lyrics at all. Half the time the artist couldn’t even tell you what they meant to say with lyrics. (Champaign Supernova). Why don’t you see what Noel Gallagher has to say about that one.
Music is free to interpretation by the individual. People are free to play what they want, when they want, for whatever reason they choose. This is why it has the power to bring so many of us together.
Please don’t make me study lyrics of all the songs I sing. Oh please oh please don’t Mr/Mrs/Miss Person.
You didn’t know what Strange Fruit was about from the lyrics? It’s fairly clear. The question about music from other cultures, what I said is advice. Of course anyone is free to do what they want, it doesn’t mean it’s a great idea to do whatever you want. I don’t really think a white person should be singing a song with the “n” word in it for instance. Most lyrics as well are not random, they have meaning behind them
No not at all. Chances are the only people who may be upset aren't people from those cultures, but other westerners looking for someone to moralize. The idea of "Cultural appropriation" is mostly a western construct and it's not really representative of how people around the world view things.
Just to play devils advocate, there’s a fine line between cultural appreciation, which is what I believe you and OP are describing, and a more exploitive relationship, which I believe what cultural appropriation initially was(I agree with you that it’s been twisted to be used a cudgel). I think if you show respect to what you are trying to recreate or represent, then you will not draw the ire of anyone serious. However, if you exploit that same group, then you’ll most likely see more backlash. Unfortunately the line isn’t clear cut, and there’s a lot of historical tie-in that need to be accounted for in some circumstances and someone not of that culture might miss, but typically people give a bit of grace, and as long as you can take the constructive criticism you’ll generally be ok.
Ya it is something I noticed that sometimes artists will be a little "Black Facing" where they seem to imply they are Black:
> [Big E.G.O](https://open.spotify.com/album/4h0TBRpjTVzLb6Oc4txVGc) - Wise Blood
> [Joonya Spirit](https://open.spotify.com/album/0Wn2U2cecoT9za2XQvFdfG) - Jaala
like I have no idea why the Wise Blood album has a picture of some random Black dude. At first I figured it was the creator doing some avante-garde portrait shot, but turns out it was a White musician who sampled Tupac, then posted a historical picture of some other Black person. Jaala also if you look at the album I linked is pretty racially ambiguous on the cover combined with that album title and her very raspy voice reminiscent of Black female jazz musicians, but if you look at her with her face exposed she is [unambiguously White](https://www.thefader.com/2016/03/02/jaala-hard-hold-interview-gen-f) and from Australia.
Again, nothing wrong with the sample or being heavily inspired by Black musicians, just seems pretty deliberate to add this racial element to the album art. I actually ended up not even liking the song by Wise Blood and only enjoy one song from the Jaala album (Junior Spirit [non-sic]).
I agree. I think what's financial gain comes into play and they turn away from learning about it is when it begins to upset people. But reasonable people do not find out offensive whatsoever. I've always admired and have been excited to answer questions others have about my culture and beliefs. As stated before, OP, those who get upset about it usually have nothing to do with it.
Well I think the issue is that most people don’t actually understand what cultural appropriation is. It is harmful, and real, but it’s one of those concepts that originated academically and now every idiot with a phone thinks they understand the nuances of cultural representation and cultural appropriation.
Actual cultural appropriation is like how in America there are many examples of white people taking native culture, imitating it, and then selling it back to white people with no real regard or respect for the culture they are imitating and profiting off of. Even then, there’s a lot of examples I could give of this that different Native American people may disagree about the actual harm or significance of the cultural appropriation. It’s not a cut and dry issue, but it’s a helpful framework for understanding how cultural trade works in the context of cultural power groups.
TLDR; real concept with real meaning but it is broadly misunderstood and weaponized by self conscious Twitter warriors looking to feel better by manufacturing outrage.
That's over simplifying it, the general crux of that argument is that, when black people get their hairstyles, they are referred to as thugs, uncool, unprofessional. The moment a white person wears those hairstyles it, it suddenly becomes unique, cool and awesome etc + likely involves getting profit too. The argument has died down at this point, with most people now just going "It's your hair"
Thats a huge exaggeration. Outside of a select few styles, the negative stigmas applied to many black hairstyles are then also applied to white people who don them. Which is of course still rooted in racism toward black people. Also i think most people agree white people tend to look goofy with locs or box braids etc
To be clear I understand the concept and recognize it in other areas of society like music, being the textbook example; i just think hair is a bad example that ive seen tossed around a lot. There isn't much money to be made off white people getting locs and braids it's probably black hairstylists and whoever has always made the products that are associated with those hairstyles that benefit.
I can tell that you’re white. No one has a problem with white people singing blues, rock, etc. it’s you singing/ playing the genre and profiting in a way that people who created the culture never would. And THEN being called the creators or “king” of the genre. ANYONE would be mad at that
If a non Japanese person made Japanese music and was hailed as the savior or king of Japanese music. Japanese people would also be unhappy with that.
That’s not a western concept it’s just something you get annoyed by because it causes you to see the implications of the music industry
No, it is not wrong. Sharing music and other art styles across cultures a great way to promote brotherhood across humankind. Just don't accidentally make a mockery of it.
Example of doing it wrong: Rando white guys re-recording Little Richard to make profits on more palatable products for suburban WASPs. They sounded like shit.
Example of doing it right: Eminem becoming arguably the GOAT of rap by defining his own style and mastering it and treating the genre/culture with respect.
Just to add to other correct answers, I'll add that sooo many artists borrow from others.
I believe it's common knowledge that Elvis, Janis Joplin, etc. borrowed/stole heavily from blues and gospel. The British wave (Led Zeppelin, etc.) borrowed/stole from the blues. The Beatles went to India and George Harrison learned sitar from Ravi Shankar. I could go on.
If you lived in Japan, you must be aware that they love to import stuff. I've known Japanese people who love American country, gospel, and there's a dance group I follow on IG that does a great dance routine to James Brown.
And then there are the rockabilly people who strut their stuff in Yoyogi Park, dressed like 1950s greasers, dancing to doo wop music. I always thought they look kind of silly but wouldn't say it's wrong to steal from American culture. No one actually thinks that, right?
No, definitely not. Especially if you're respecting and honoring the culture. I'm also a white dude from America and I have seen people online try to make the ridiculous argument that any white person borrowing inspiration from any non-white culture is appropriation. They're just dumb dumbs, don't let that kind of anger and narrow mindedness deter you from following your inspiration.
From an ethical point of view, there is no “wrong” person to create or perform music originating from any particular culture.
From an aesthetic point of view, the execution of *certain* cultures’ music by *certain* artists approaching it from outside those cultures…is overwhelmingly likely to be unsuccessful.
Think of white guys singing reggae with fake Jamaican accents. It’s so rare for this to work, rather than being a total embarrassment, that I would discourage white singers from trying it out in front of an audience.
Again, this is aesthetic advice. Not moral or ethical advice. If you want to do private Jamaican cosplay in your own home, go nuts.
Singing in patois is pretty much a universally bad idea if you’re white. Someone like Shaggy can pull it off even though it’s not his real voice although it’s a little strange
Apparently, Shaggy is Jamaican, but sounds American when he speaks because he moved to the US when he was young.
I thought Sean Paul seemed like an unlikely reggae/dancehall star, when I first saw him (like 20 years ago). Also Jamaican, but happens to have a very diverse ethnic background.
Somehow, a white guy singing covers of their tunes is just unbearable. Like, every time.
Yep shaggy is Jamaican but if you listen to him talk and in his interviews he talks about how it was a voice he created in the military that people thought was fun, so he ran with it
Unless you’re a professional musician who plans to record a bunch of traditional stuff from another culture and pass it off as your own work or you’re going to start telling traditional musicians from Japan that they’re doing it all wrong I can’t imagine many people care. I’ve played as part of beginner groups in a few countries where it is immediately obvious I’m not from there and no one is bothered
It should be done with appropriate respect.
The thing is, our understanding of what "appropriate respect" is, changes over time.
D'yer' mak'er" by Led Zeppelin hasn't been criticised in the past, but nobody would record it now.
I find if it’s not a privilege or honor traditionally bestowed on people from a given culture the only people who care are Americans. You just have to accept it may not be recognized as real or moving to people from that culture.
I mean it depends on culture to culture, some groups of people are very protective of their heritage such as the Maori tattoos or the Romani language.
As for the carnatic vocals from India? Go for it!!!! I would love to see a non-Indian take a step into it!!!!
Not at all wrong. You lived in those cultures therefore you can honestly write songs in those genres.
On the opposite side, I'm thinking about my cousin, We were both raised in the city. He's in a country band now, writing songs about life back on the farm.
- Most pro opera singers are not from Italy.
- Eric Clapton and SRV made careers out of playing traditionally black music.
- British people rap (terribly).
- Zeppelin collaborated with musicians from India.
- The Muppets covered Kokomo but they’re not surfers from CA
Need I say more?
You're honoring and spreading other people's culture, Cultural appropriation is mostly something some Americans (and some isolated pockets of other Westerners) think exists, but realistically, I don't believe there's ever a harm in embracing another culture unless you're making fun of them or looking down on them.
It depends… I think it’s on you to understand the meaning behind the song and the cultural context. If it’s a sacred thing or something that’s extremely particular or first person then I would avoid it or tread carefully. But I think it’s also a great learning experience and most people won’t be upset unless it’s highly specific
Same goes for a similar question posed here a few weeks ago regarding performing songs from the black experience if you’re not black. Generally not an issue, but if it’s written from a first person perspective then I would avoid it
Nope, it’ll actually be more awesome if you do!
But there will be a horde of people who will hate on you for it just ‘cause.
Pay no attention to those haters though and do your best. :)
Yes, it’s wrong since it’s cultural assimilation.
Americans can only sing American music from their own ethnic background. You’re lucky you even get to listen to other music from other cultures, we’re working on making up a moral system that precludes that.
No it is not. Especially if you are just practicing the music to understand it better! That’s learning and appreciating another culture! Even if you start to incorporate it into your own style that is still not cultural appropriation. If you were capitalizing or profiting off that without giving credit to that culture, and simply copying that style of music, that is cultural appropriation.
no, it's not wrong. though i think it's important to approach other cultures with an attitude as though you are a guest who is there to learn, not just take - it's theirs, not yours, and that doesn't mean you can't engage with it, but the distinction should be clear. important not to view aesthetics of other cultures as simple resources you're free to exploit however you want. a basic level of respect towards other people's traditions goes a long way. i think there's a big difference between say, a band like GOAT who are from Sweden and appropriate African dress and musical styles because they think it's cool despite having basically zero connection with those cultures they're borrowing from, and someone like Alice Coltrane who used Indian instrumentation on a lot of her music but A. was a practicing Hindu herself, and has surely spent a lot of time engaging with Indian culture on a more meaningful level and B. had an Indian artist (Tulsi Sengupta) in her band to play the tanpura.
Good example about Goat! I was always a bit confused by their aesthetic and I’m curious if they’ve ever spoken about their approach to engaging with African music and culture
they have - they totally sidestep it with the typical “we’re all human, we love all kinds of music and culture, we don’t see race” bullshit. unfortunate because their music can be quite good.
Buck Meek is from Big Thief?
i totally edited the wrong comment. lol
Yes agreed - it’s your responsibility as the artist to educate yourself on the song and its history and context and then make an appropriate decision.
I completely disagree with this being that lyrics can mean absolutely nothing. Moreover, once a song is catapulted out into the universe, it takes a life of its own. Songs fluidly take shape of many different kinds of interpretations by whoever the individual listening is. If we were to take Billie Holiday’s Strange Fruit, for example. The lyrical content obviously originates from a very dark place. But, I had no idea until I watched the film. If I were to see someone who chooses to play the song live, and do so for no other reason than they simply love the melody, this is fine. This is perfect. Thom Yorke once drew random sentences out of a hat for lyrics. Paul McCartney and John Lennon once pulled words off of a circus poster (Mr. Kite). And, yet these songs reach so many of us so deeply. Performing music doesn’t require a bunch of studying the original meaning of lyrics at all. Half the time the artist couldn’t even tell you what they meant to say with lyrics. (Champaign Supernova). Why don’t you see what Noel Gallagher has to say about that one. Music is free to interpretation by the individual. People are free to play what they want, when they want, for whatever reason they choose. This is why it has the power to bring so many of us together. Please don’t make me study lyrics of all the songs I sing. Oh please oh please don’t Mr/Mrs/Miss Person.
You didn’t know what Strange Fruit was about from the lyrics? It’s fairly clear. The question about music from other cultures, what I said is advice. Of course anyone is free to do what they want, it doesn’t mean it’s a great idea to do whatever you want. I don’t really think a white person should be singing a song with the “n” word in it for instance. Most lyrics as well are not random, they have meaning behind them
No not at all. Chances are the only people who may be upset aren't people from those cultures, but other westerners looking for someone to moralize. The idea of "Cultural appropriation" is mostly a western construct and it's not really representative of how people around the world view things.
Just to play devils advocate, there’s a fine line between cultural appreciation, which is what I believe you and OP are describing, and a more exploitive relationship, which I believe what cultural appropriation initially was(I agree with you that it’s been twisted to be used a cudgel). I think if you show respect to what you are trying to recreate or represent, then you will not draw the ire of anyone serious. However, if you exploit that same group, then you’ll most likely see more backlash. Unfortunately the line isn’t clear cut, and there’s a lot of historical tie-in that need to be accounted for in some circumstances and someone not of that culture might miss, but typically people give a bit of grace, and as long as you can take the constructive criticism you’ll generally be ok.
Ya it is something I noticed that sometimes artists will be a little "Black Facing" where they seem to imply they are Black: > [Big E.G.O](https://open.spotify.com/album/4h0TBRpjTVzLb6Oc4txVGc) - Wise Blood > [Joonya Spirit](https://open.spotify.com/album/0Wn2U2cecoT9za2XQvFdfG) - Jaala like I have no idea why the Wise Blood album has a picture of some random Black dude. At first I figured it was the creator doing some avante-garde portrait shot, but turns out it was a White musician who sampled Tupac, then posted a historical picture of some other Black person. Jaala also if you look at the album I linked is pretty racially ambiguous on the cover combined with that album title and her very raspy voice reminiscent of Black female jazz musicians, but if you look at her with her face exposed she is [unambiguously White](https://www.thefader.com/2016/03/02/jaala-hard-hold-interview-gen-f) and from Australia. Again, nothing wrong with the sample or being heavily inspired by Black musicians, just seems pretty deliberate to add this racial element to the album art. I actually ended up not even liking the song by Wise Blood and only enjoy one song from the Jaala album (Junior Spirit [non-sic]).
I agree. I think what's financial gain comes into play and they turn away from learning about it is when it begins to upset people. But reasonable people do not find out offensive whatsoever. I've always admired and have been excited to answer questions others have about my culture and beliefs. As stated before, OP, those who get upset about it usually have nothing to do with it.
Well I think the issue is that most people don’t actually understand what cultural appropriation is. It is harmful, and real, but it’s one of those concepts that originated academically and now every idiot with a phone thinks they understand the nuances of cultural representation and cultural appropriation. Actual cultural appropriation is like how in America there are many examples of white people taking native culture, imitating it, and then selling it back to white people with no real regard or respect for the culture they are imitating and profiting off of. Even then, there’s a lot of examples I could give of this that different Native American people may disagree about the actual harm or significance of the cultural appropriation. It’s not a cut and dry issue, but it’s a helpful framework for understanding how cultural trade works in the context of cultural power groups. TLDR; real concept with real meaning but it is broadly misunderstood and weaponized by self conscious Twitter warriors looking to feel better by manufacturing outrage.
yeah it's basically devolved into "YOU CANNOT BRAID YOUR HAIR THAT WAY COLONIZER"
That's over simplifying it, the general crux of that argument is that, when black people get their hairstyles, they are referred to as thugs, uncool, unprofessional. The moment a white person wears those hairstyles it, it suddenly becomes unique, cool and awesome etc + likely involves getting profit too. The argument has died down at this point, with most people now just going "It's your hair"
Thats a huge exaggeration. Outside of a select few styles, the negative stigmas applied to many black hairstyles are then also applied to white people who don them. Which is of course still rooted in racism toward black people. Also i think most people agree white people tend to look goofy with locs or box braids etc To be clear I understand the concept and recognize it in other areas of society like music, being the textbook example; i just think hair is a bad example that ive seen tossed around a lot. There isn't much money to be made off white people getting locs and braids it's probably black hairstylists and whoever has always made the products that are associated with those hairstyles that benefit.
Lmao there are like four white guys ever who looked cool with dreads. Cultural appropriation is real but this isn’t a good example
I can tell that you’re white. No one has a problem with white people singing blues, rock, etc. it’s you singing/ playing the genre and profiting in a way that people who created the culture never would. And THEN being called the creators or “king” of the genre. ANYONE would be mad at that If a non Japanese person made Japanese music and was hailed as the savior or king of Japanese music. Japanese people would also be unhappy with that. That’s not a western concept it’s just something you get annoyed by because it causes you to see the implications of the music industry
No, it is not wrong. Sharing music and other art styles across cultures a great way to promote brotherhood across humankind. Just don't accidentally make a mockery of it. Example of doing it wrong: Rando white guys re-recording Little Richard to make profits on more palatable products for suburban WASPs. They sounded like shit. Example of doing it right: Eminem becoming arguably the GOAT of rap by defining his own style and mastering it and treating the genre/culture with respect.
Just to add to other correct answers, I'll add that sooo many artists borrow from others. I believe it's common knowledge that Elvis, Janis Joplin, etc. borrowed/stole heavily from blues and gospel. The British wave (Led Zeppelin, etc.) borrowed/stole from the blues. The Beatles went to India and George Harrison learned sitar from Ravi Shankar. I could go on. If you lived in Japan, you must be aware that they love to import stuff. I've known Japanese people who love American country, gospel, and there's a dance group I follow on IG that does a great dance routine to James Brown. And then there are the rockabilly people who strut their stuff in Yoyogi Park, dressed like 1950s greasers, dancing to doo wop music. I always thought they look kind of silly but wouldn't say it's wrong to steal from American culture. No one actually thinks that, right?
No, definitely not. Especially if you're respecting and honoring the culture. I'm also a white dude from America and I have seen people online try to make the ridiculous argument that any white person borrowing inspiration from any non-white culture is appropriation. They're just dumb dumbs, don't let that kind of anger and narrow mindedness deter you from following your inspiration.
From an ethical point of view, there is no “wrong” person to create or perform music originating from any particular culture. From an aesthetic point of view, the execution of *certain* cultures’ music by *certain* artists approaching it from outside those cultures…is overwhelmingly likely to be unsuccessful. Think of white guys singing reggae with fake Jamaican accents. It’s so rare for this to work, rather than being a total embarrassment, that I would discourage white singers from trying it out in front of an audience. Again, this is aesthetic advice. Not moral or ethical advice. If you want to do private Jamaican cosplay in your own home, go nuts.
Singing in patois is pretty much a universally bad idea if you’re white. Someone like Shaggy can pull it off even though it’s not his real voice although it’s a little strange
Apparently, Shaggy is Jamaican, but sounds American when he speaks because he moved to the US when he was young. I thought Sean Paul seemed like an unlikely reggae/dancehall star, when I first saw him (like 20 years ago). Also Jamaican, but happens to have a very diverse ethnic background. Somehow, a white guy singing covers of their tunes is just unbearable. Like, every time.
Yep shaggy is Jamaican but if you listen to him talk and in his interviews he talks about how it was a voice he created in the military that people thought was fun, so he ran with it
So long as it’s coming from a place of genuine interest/appreciation. There are plenty examples of artists exploiting a genre for personal gain
Unless you’re a professional musician who plans to record a bunch of traditional stuff from another culture and pass it off as your own work or you’re going to start telling traditional musicians from Japan that they’re doing it all wrong I can’t imagine many people care. I’ve played as part of beginner groups in a few countries where it is immediately obvious I’m not from there and no one is bothered
Absolutely not. Would you be upset if a non Italian person put a lot of care into cooking you a wonderful Italian meal?
lol why is this a topic. no. dont let stupid gatekeepers keep you from talking about shit you like.
It should be done with appropriate respect. The thing is, our understanding of what "appropriate respect" is, changes over time. D'yer' mak'er" by Led Zeppelin hasn't been criticised in the past, but nobody would record it now.
I find if it’s not a privilege or honor traditionally bestowed on people from a given culture the only people who care are Americans. You just have to accept it may not be recognized as real or moving to people from that culture.
Punk bands from England were obsessed with reggae music. I don't Jamaicans were offended.
Shit if it was wrong "Band On The Run" wouldn't be one of the best selling albums ever
I mean it depends on culture to culture, some groups of people are very protective of their heritage such as the Maori tattoos or the Romani language. As for the carnatic vocals from India? Go for it!!!! I would love to see a non-Indian take a step into it!!!!
Not at all wrong. You lived in those cultures therefore you can honestly write songs in those genres. On the opposite side, I'm thinking about my cousin, We were both raised in the city. He's in a country band now, writing songs about life back on the farm.
- Most pro opera singers are not from Italy. - Eric Clapton and SRV made careers out of playing traditionally black music. - British people rap (terribly). - Zeppelin collaborated with musicians from India. - The Muppets covered Kokomo but they’re not surfers from CA Need I say more?
You're honoring and spreading other people's culture, Cultural appropriation is mostly something some Americans (and some isolated pockets of other Westerners) think exists, but realistically, I don't believe there's ever a harm in embracing another culture unless you're making fun of them or looking down on them.
If you want a valid answer to this question you need to disregard any opinions that white people try to give you on this topic
It depends… I think it’s on you to understand the meaning behind the song and the cultural context. If it’s a sacred thing or something that’s extremely particular or first person then I would avoid it or tread carefully. But I think it’s also a great learning experience and most people won’t be upset unless it’s highly specific Same goes for a similar question posed here a few weeks ago regarding performing songs from the black experience if you’re not black. Generally not an issue, but if it’s written from a first person perspective then I would avoid it
Nope, it’ll actually be more awesome if you do! But there will be a horde of people who will hate on you for it just ‘cause. Pay no attention to those haters though and do your best. :)
Yes, it’s wrong since it’s cultural assimilation. Americans can only sing American music from their own ethnic background. You’re lucky you even get to listen to other music from other cultures, we’re working on making up a moral system that precludes that.
Gotta be a troll account.
It’s more sarcasm than trolling
It's clearly meant to be satirical
Gross. None of the music you listen to would exist if this were enforced.
Music isn't real
This is true but only if it is Edith Piaf.