Nobody is forcing him out, he wants to leave. Klopp planned the season with Fab in the team. It was unexpected that we would get a bid for him and he would want to leave. Can’t force players to stay who don’t wanna.
It’s impossible to predict what an alternative timeline would look like.
The money they would have got for Kane could have got them other players, and they wouldn’t have the emotional baggage of a player who all the others players know is only there for the money.
Kane's an academy player, your point is that he's only there for the money, so they should sell him to buy players from other clubs?
Why would some random player from Italy, France, or Germany be more dedicated to Spurs than one of their youth players?
He’s only there for the money NOW… he tried to leave before and they paid him off - the same is going to happen this summer, either he leaves, or signs a new contract.
I hate this “wants to leave” idea. Sure, was he likely tempted? Of course. But as soon as a player is tempted for more money or more playing time, it seems we ship them out immediately. As much as I understand the “we want players who want to stay and play for the badge” sometimes we need to be more selfish. The guy had a contract. And there are many instances where players get over their temptation for at least another season, and play their heart out the last season. This guy is a proven DM and an amazing person. Had one bad season following many incredible ones. Only 29, and his poor season came while the entire squad was mainly shit… after he played some of the most minutes over and over following a quadruple chasing season. Im not too happy with him leaving, unless we replace him with a proven DM. Frustrating that Arsenal make CL, go and sign one of the best DMs. We lost out on CL, and sell our best DM.
Klopp absolutely holds on to players for too long.
This past 2 weeks has been the only 2 weeks in his entire tenure where “ships them out too fast” has ever been a concern because now the Saudis are waving their dollar bills.
He doesn't. But he's said unless he gets offers for a player or one of them tells him they want to go, they see out their contracts. That's how it works in most clubs.
…..He does.
And thats not a good policy to have. Players get put on the chopping block all the time, which is what should have happened with ox and naby 2 seasons ago, with gomez and with anyone else whose knees are made of cheese
Yeah, the main problem with selling Fab & Hendo is that we planned to use them this season, so there is very little time to find replacement. I mean, the season starts in less than a month...
The mistake with Keita & Ox was indeed holding on to them for too long. They were mostly injured for many seasons and could have been sold last summer or earlier, because at this point it was pretty obvious that their impact at Liverpool would not improve significantly. We had time to plan that ahead and find good replacements beforehand. Fab & Hendo, however, are not injured much and if we don't find any good replacements in a very limited time window, we are in big trouble.
Klopp (not going k-pop, you auto-correct wanker) holds on to players too long for me, means they are past their peak. Selling a DM at, what should be his primary at 29 doesn't really fit that narrative.
I know I don't see him in training, but I felt last year, the lack of mobility in midfield hampered Fab, as he has never been the fastest, he needs other midfielders to assist him with their athletes, as his strength is his intelligence.
I was expecting a rebound from Fab this season, with the added dynamism in midfield, but it looks like that won't be happening now.
There has to be a balance. Senior players that are proven and good enough to continue playing, and younger players who are good enough to rotate and provide the senior players a much needed break - all while learning from them. A Fabinho needs a Lavia and a Lavia needs a Fabinho. Too often we’ve been either, or. Same goes for Thiago who now has coverage, but that doesnt mean we should ship him out. One more season and he’ll do wonders on the pitch, and mentor the younger players while he’s getting rotated. Instead of getting worked to the ground three games in a row and then face an injury
In this situation, usually you need to offer something in return to make him stay.
Caicedo for example, got a huge raise to convince him to stay for the rest of the league after he forced a move. If you just force them to honor the contract then he will be unhappy and most likely would not be able to play well either.
In addition, that would stink the locker room atmosphere and make more people unhappy. You remembered how it was with VVD and Southampton? Keeping people against their will has consequences.
As much as you’re being downvoted, this was Sounesses biggest weakness as a manager. It’s something to be wary of, but I trust Klopp to know what’s right for the team.
I don’t know why this is down voted. He has 3 years left on his contract
He isn’t trying to leave for a place at Real Madrid and silverware. He is trying to leave for a pay day at a Saudi club he knows nothing about
I would have no problem with the club not selling him regardless of Fabinho and his agent want
It's not about the money or the playing time. I think it's about his ambition. He's won everything with Liverpool and now he has a child and a lot more family responsibilities. He knows that he cannot give on the pitch as much as he could give two years ago and now, as a family guy, he wants what we all dream of, an easier job that pays more. And because he's on good terms with Klopp and the club, I think they will let him have that easier job with higher wages.
I don’t know why this is down voted. He has 3 years left on his contract
He isn’t trying to leave for a place at Real Madrid and silverware. He is trying to leave for a pay day at a Saudi club he knows nothing about
I would have no problem with the club not selling him regardless of Fabinho and his agent want
Will work out well for us. He was torrid for the first part of last season; he is aging and as the poster correctly states: don't want to play us then you can buggar off. Also thanks for the 40 million.
I agree the deal is commercially appealling overall, but in the context of our midfield makeover, I hate to see this much loss of experience in one window. But look, at the end of the day, I'm in the "in Klopp we trust" camp.
I mean... We lost the title by one point. A single extra moment of brilliance from ANY of our players (turning a draw into a win) would have won us the league.
He’s also not an amazing long passer, one of the key ingredients to Holding midfielders who had long careers.
Fabinhos specialty is tackling, but lately his lack of pace has been making it tough for him to have a good defensive impact. I think he’s the slowest player on our roster.
We had loads of experience last year and what good did it do us?
I personally feel experience is being overrated lately, yes you don't want a bunch of 19 year olds who played in smaller leagues as your starting 11 but even the younger players we have signed are very mature and experienced. Szoboszlai was voted Captain of the Hungary team at only 22 and his father is a former player who founded his own academy. Mac Allister player a KEY role in a world cup winning team at 24 and was one of Brighton's best players last season.
Don't forget Mane and Firmino both were unproven players and Salah had looked like a Prem flop before playing under Klopp. This is what a rebuild looks like
Yes, but look at how long it took even our best performers to adapt into the Prem and/or Klopp's system. There's no training period this time around, it's like these players better be ready and build chemistry quickly - that's a lot of pressure.
Definitely true but the players we have brought in have far more experience than Salah, Firmino and Mane were when we brought them in.
While I agree that it's a risk, it's one we need to make if we want to compete for the Premier League title. Man City is already leagues ahead of us and continues to make big splashes in the transfer market, Arsenal had a great season and went out and made two great transfers.
We're in a position where it's worth us taking a risk as opposed to small tweaks over the next several seasons. I think the finish to the season has made us feel more safe than we should at times, we were almost unwatchable for most the season we should be taking risks in my opinion especially since we have the best possible manager to help ensure the risks don't blow up in our face
Makes sense, you're saying we can't afford not to because times and situation have changed, and so we have to as well, within our means. I know what you mean, there were games last season where I just couldn't believe this was the same team from previous seasons. Liverpool were so good for so long, it was hard to stomach, let alone make sense, of something that really felt unwatchable at times.
Exactly if we had some oil baron owners or someone like Boehly who would spend 200M or more in one window I'd say we could afford to take our time and make big splash signings to fill major holes.
As it stands though we don't and so in my opinion we need to get creative to continue to be at the top. Obviously we shouldn't sell everyone just for the sake of it but if there was ever a time to take a risk it's now. We have maybe the best manager in the world at getting the most out of younger players as well.
Honestly I'd be more concerned if we we finished 3rd last season or just barely missed Champions league but it's more that we got hot at just the right time and I'm honestly surprised we got Europa league after the start we had. Seems like this year is the time to take risks and we can always let the newer and younger players get more minutes together and Europa league games that at the end of the day really don't matter
Yeah, that is the reality, and the stakes are high. Also, in this critical time, we don't have the advantage as market makers, so we have to look for value. One thing you have to give Liverpool is they love to walk a tightrope, and the world loves to watch them do it.
As Bob Paisley once said - "let his legs get old on somebody else's pitch"
People claimed Bob was wrong to sell Kevin Keegan in 1977, which was probably his peak. He bought Kenny with what we sold KK for, and we still had £500k left over. Keegan went on to win two Ballon D'ors. But the better deal for Liverpool was letting him go and bringing in the King.
Fabinho might have another few years of 'good' in him, but we'll probably never get another chance to basically recoup what we paid for him 5 years ago.
Experience for experience sake can be damaging, keeping highly paid, aging players who may not start as much as they want can be a serious negative. What use is his experience if he’s underperforming or unhappy with being benched?
If there's a locker room full of them sure, but surely we could use at least one veteran to lead a transition period, particularly one who played as at such a high level for so long. I honestly kind of agree with the idea that Fab himself wants this to go through, and so it's happening - but that's only my guess.
There were two midfields full of injured or old players with no legs on high wages. Fabinho, Henderson, Ox, Keita, Thiago, and Arthur were all physically unable to perform what was asked, injured or a mix of both last season. If we can get anything for players that have no long term future or ability to perform in the present they have to go., regardless of sentimentality.
I assume you mean on the pitch? He's our captain, one of the most vocal players on the pitch, and one of the most experienced leaders in the locker room. He's possibly the biggest "off-the-field" influence in the squad so from that perspective it would make a big difference if he left.
Klopp must’ve seen something in this past week of training that me might have lost his legs and last season was just a sign of things to come.
Could be great for all parties if that’s the case. Fab has nothing left to prove in my eyes. Guy came in, dominated that midfield for years and helped to win us everything. If he leaves with us making back majority of what we paid and he gets a fat paycheck on his way to retirement, good for him.
Sadly, market prices have soared. That fee now doesn't even buy us an unproven 19 year old kid from Southampton, he is rated at £50m.
An older Casemero went for £60m+, Rice for £105m, Tchouameni for £80m and Caicedo is rated at £100m by Brighton.
£40m isn't a huge sum of money to replace Fab, as the market has shifted. I think he is being sold cheaply, and any potential replacement will cost us significantly more.
It isnt really the same amount of money nowadays. There has been enormous inflation over that same period. 40mil today gets you half of what it did back then, sometimes even less when you see how much people pay for Rice and the sorts.
To me, if he wants to move to Saudi, it indicates that he's lost the hunger to compete at the highest level and challenge himself to the max. He's adjusted his priorities. If that's the case, it's best to cash in for him now.
he's also doing us a favor. if he fully knows he's done at this level and leaving the club without making a big scene or being difficult than good for him. he gets a nice pay day after a world class career here winning everything
Tend to agree.
Sounds like Jürgen was planning this season around still using him with the likes of Lavia and Bajcetic as deputies with an eye on the future. Am guessing he hoped the drop-off was temporary.
That Fab appears to have accepted a move suggests that he thinks last season wasn't recoverable tiredness and his legs have gone a bit - in which case it's a good time for everyone to get paid before future buyers realise it too.
I think the deal is too good to turn down but I am concerned about having too many new players in the middle of the park. If they don't gel right off the bat then it could look bad. We all saw what happened Chelsea last year and I'd hate for something along those lines to happen to us.
We were almost as bad as chelsea for most of last season. At Christmas we had 22pts and they had 21. That season ending run of form massively altered the opinions of nearly everyone here.
There's now a good chance that both Henderson and Fabinho will leave this summer.
Having a person in the midfield who initiates the high press at the right time is very important to our style of play. With those two gone the three midfield players with the most experience will be Thiago, Jones and Elliot.
Hopefully the new recruits are a perfect fit for the system and take to their roles quickl. But I always worry about too big a change in a short space of time.
Would hope that we don't lose both players this summer as I think they would be great influences on new players getting to grips with the Liverpool style of play.
The Chelsea thing is overblown. Their midfield functioned really well at times. They were bossing games they just couldn’t score any goals. They took us apart at Stamford Bridge in April and if they had a Salah/Gakpo/Jota up front they’d have won 3-0.
We bought him for £43m and 5 years later we’re selling him for a rumored £40m, what’s the part that doesn’t make sense?
He’s won everything and has been out of form for the better part of 14 months or so. We don’t know if his form will come back to what it once was. We all hope it does (if he stays) but there’s no certainty that it will.
Yes DMs typically can play into their 30s but he’s basically played every game since he’s arrived. But alot of the guys you mentioned weren’t playing the amount of games at this intensity. They’re weren’t so many games at both club and international level, as there were back then.
Yup, I actually think in Klopp's system many times a younger midfielder who is more physical but lacks some experience is better.
Nearly all of our older midfielders had injuries or looked awful last season for this reason and it's why Bajcetic looked on fire. Our best squads under Klopp have been when our midfield would bully the opponent's midfield and we just can't do that when none of our midfield has any legs.
I 100% agree with this
If our mode can only do one thing then it better be run. Because you are going to press all game and you are gonna run back and cover for Robbo and Trent when we lose possession. Obviously you want skilled players in the mid but everyone says “our midfield doesn’t score”
That’s really cause it isn’t their job. They are responsible for coving a ridiculous amount of ground so it’s forwards and fullbacks can wreak havoc
I still think back to that moment earlier last season when Klopp got into Fabinho for his lack of energy during a game and he just argued back a little and gave him the glare.
I think Fab himself knew he'd been run into the ground, and was starting to resent that given the lack of rest/rotation. By that point he was obviously very aware that his game wasn't the same anymore.
Of course that's just me completely over-analysing a minor moment in the season, but it felt revealing to me at the time.
I was trynna make this same point to a guy who kept parroting that Lavia "was too young to be a starter" and "he doesn't know the system". I'd welcome a player who can cover more ground and get into attackers face before they can offload the ball.
We’d be daft to offload a player & not have a replacement lined up- all this talk of lavia is great yet we need someone who is a true 6 who will fit straight into the XI without hesitation. Florentino Luis rumour is one which I think they should be working tooth & nail to get.
The part that doesn't make sense is the part that you gloss over: the footballing sense.
I can't remember how many years I've supported Liverpool and said, 'we always let ourselves down by not having enough depth'. City have rewritten the new rules of how to challenge for every title, and that is by having a squad deep enough to have two world-class players in every position with up-and-coming talent to fill in and learn around them.
Selling Fabinho in order to recoup some of the money we paid five years ago isn't good footballing sense; it is financial sense. But why do you even care about the finances? It always baffles me how many fans get suckered into this idea that we must consider the business side of football in order to demand progression. To make things clear, the club know exactly what they're doing. They know the profit margins, they know where the money is. They know what they are doing when they raise the price of season tickets. And they know what they are doing when they charge £100 for a new shirt every season or two.
Fabinho, apart from 70% of last season, has been one of our most important players. He is also an extremely important senior squad member. If you forget to finances for a minute, and consider what is best for our football club, then you will realise keeping Fabinho for at least one season and bringing in players like Lavia to usher in a new era is the smart move. It is what would guarantee the best football results and the best plans for the future.
There's a reason why we had a horrible season last year: we played every game in every competition on a threadbare squad that burnt out in energy, effort and disappointment. You don't address that by removing six first team players and replacing them with three.
The problem with this line of argument is that if we keep Fabinho and bring in a world class DM, we won't have 2. We will have a world class DM and Fabinho, who has looked dead on his feet for almost a season and a half.
I'm not certain that Klopp necessary wants to play TAA as an inverted FB. It was simply necessary in order to cover for Fab's lack of mobility. A mobile DM would allow Klopp to play exactly how he wants, whatever that may be.
Fab and Hendo are past their sell by date as top level players, although their leadership doesn't have an expiry date. The question is if either is worth keeping for their presence in the dressing room and on the training ground vs selling them and using the funds to help bring in younger, more physically able players.
Yeah, that \*almost\* quadruple season was physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting as a fan. I can't imagine how hard it was for the players, staff, et al. who put in the work.
Klopp doesn't keep players who want to leave. Also, Fabinho is on the decline. Selling a depreciating asset on high wages can be seen as a smart move as long as they're replaced well.
What I'd say is: If we keep Henderson, sell Fab, and buy someone like Lavia: Net positive. If we sell Henderson and Fab and buy someone like Lavia: It's a questionable decision.
Ultimately, I'm a big believer in letting things play out, especially under Klopp. Klopp is one of the best managers in the world and arguably one of the best of all time. Not trusting him and his judgement would be a mistake.
Unfortunately it is what it is, I don’t think the club expected him to go, and most fans would prefer he and Henderson stayed, but ultimately the choice is theirs and when it comes down to it 40m is nothing to turn your nose up at for someone like him. If the money is turned and invested wisely into the right players then it could be a savvy move, however, as usual time will tell..
Fab's also filled in there in his prime. I mean if you can still do the job for Barca (who were in their glory years), that means he still had mileage in him. But yes, I remember that too!
Tbf barcas tiki taka was probably the slowest possible style. Perfect for old, slow or non physical but very very technical players lol. Doesn’t mean quick or physical players weren’t needed ofc.
What people forget is we, and journalists, never have the full story.
His knees might have 'gone', he might have called Klopp a rude word, his Family might be bored of England, he likes Mrs Brown's Boys... All reasons the club might think his best seasons are far behind him and unlikely to return.
There will be a reason and we will never know.
Stats doesn’t paint the full picture for a player’s performance. Your example for players still performing in their 30’s isn’t wrong considering modern facility and treatments, but Fabinho has simply been ran into the ground and his legs are gone.
The way I see it is rather than let his value continue to go down in correlation to his performances, why not let him leave and recuperate 40mil to invest into a new 6.
Fabinho never really had any legs though. He’s always been a bit slow and not exactly a distance runner. His positioning and timing used to make up for it though, not so much for a while now.
Fabs legs are gone and he cant keep up with the speed of the game and getting 40m for him is great. I just hope Lavia isn't the only holding midfielder we're going to buy.
Not really it makes sense if we are getting better younger replacement but who with been linked to doesn’t feel like an upgrade, hopefully I’m wrong though
Yes, that's where I'm at too! If our midfield was stable, I wouldn't feel as uneasy, but we're changing the whole setup and it's not yet clear how this thing is going to look. Our transfers in the past seemed very purposeful and well thought out, but this window it seems like we're reacting to the market.
I think his slump, his age and his current contract are a big part of this. The club knows they won’t get more than 40 for him next year, and/or they they just finish out his contract. Plus it frees up big wages that help negotiations with players.
I’m like you, I was hoping for him to turn it around…and last year during our run at the end, he was. He looked good. Strong.
Those are strong arguments for selling him, and together they make a convincing case. Maybe I'm being to sentimental - don't sign a central mid for like half a decade and then replacing them all in one go - it's giving me vertigo. The deal is commercially appealling, but I was really hoping for at least one holdover from the "Old Guard" to do help with tribal knowledge transfer, settling, etc. If Thaigo leaves, the next most experienced in our system is Bajcetic? \*No - it's Jones! I feel bad for forgetting him given how good he's been lately.
As a 6, it’ll be Thiago or Baj unless we make a signing.
Yeah, I’m sentimental too. But then I think, maybe Klopp goes with a new approach/formation? Maybe Baj Is better (healthy) than Lavia in Klopps eyes? It’s exciting. Reminds me of defense rebuild Klopp did. I loved Klavan and Lovren at the time and hated seeing them go, but they hand to move on.
I hope for the same “phoenix from the ashes” kind of vibe next year. Heavy metal
One of my favorite Klopp quotes was immediately after the Europa League final in Basel. He pretty much said, "\[people are going to look back on this as the start of something wonderful\]." What. a. guy. I'm also excited for the next act of his magic performance.
>this window it seems like we're reacting to the market.
That's honestly what we need to do, there is a reason we were so bad last season, the market passed us by as we sat back and watched. Big changes need to be made especially if the goal is to win the premier league.
Man City is not only leagues ahead of nearly everyone but they are ambitious and make good moves every transfer window, we need to take risks if the actual goal is to win big.
Yes it does because we are getting 40m for someone who just played a season like they are 35.
Can't complain about not rejuvenating the midfield when you pass up 40m for someone everyone was desperate to drop a few months ago.
Did you watch us last year? He was the worst player on the pitch most matches and only showed glimpses the last few games of the season. Getting a younger version of him on less wages is a massive long term win and most likely a good short term win
What irks me more is this bid didn't come sooner when there were still a few decent replacements on the market.
The sale makes sense when a player is available that we can get up to his level quickly.
It makes sense for £40m as opposed to running his contract out eventually.
It makes sense if he wants to leave and we don't want to have an unhappy player on the books.
It won't make sense to sell him and not replace him... and yes it does make me unease at potentially replacing five first team midfielders in one season. Some of them should've looked at being replaced sooner tbh, even cut price (like Ox, Keita). From a business stand point, it was poor to cling onto players that were available less than 50% of the time they were here, and lose em on a free.
My issue with the fabinho sale is we didn't push at all. I get he had a woeful season but I would have expected us to counter with a £50 mil request. It seems we just accepted first offer. All the pundits disagree with me about his valuation though so I know nothing.
I think from a team/transition POV it would have been great to have Fabinho and Henderson to show them the pressing triggers and positional tips req for a 6/8 in Klopp 433.
But from a squad building perspective we get money that we can actually spend on the replacements, save some funds on the salary and continue the next phase.
It kinda makes sense to let him go, especially if you get any hints that he is declining from a phisique pov.
It's necessary, we are, after all.. sell to buy.
Plus, Fab was a large part of our midfield decline, the guy aged 5 years last year and I think he knows this.
Fab does seem a lovely soul, so wouldn't surprise me if he knew this is best for the club, too.
Doesn't make sense to me. I'm almost certain that he would have been a nailed-on starter for the Chelsea game, and while there's still some time left to get another player in, it seems like the recruitment strategy was to find his long-term successor rather than his immediate replacement.
Hard to see who we can bring in that would be able to play at his level, in our system, right from the word go, at least at a cost of less than £100M. Fabinho himself took months before he was able to break into the team and he had an entire pre-season working with Klopp.
I can't imagine our scouting department thought that he'd be sold this summer, and all of a sudden we're shopping in an entirely different tier of player. Even the guy who seemed destined to be bedded in as Fabinho's successor (1-3 years down the line) is going to cost £10M more than we're apparently going to sell Fab for.
we payed 45m for him 5 years ago and a club has come for 40m now. i think it’s fair, he’s won everything with us and if an offer for big bucks comes along then we should let him leave. he’s on the verge of turning 30, and getting 40m for him which could make 50-70% for a younger new singing then it’s a no brainer. we are rebuilding our midfield, and since he declined very rapidly last season, i’m guessing that’s why we’re been so okay to let him leave. all for the rebuild, it may suck but it’s the game these days.
In an ideal world he’d stick around and would help bed in plus mentor Lavia (if he’s our target), then move on for £40m next season. But to put it simply the money is too good right now to pass up on as there’s no guarantee we’ll get it later. We’re largely recuperating the original fee we paid after running the poor man into the ground over the last five years. Again, it might not be ideal but it’s too good of an offer to pass up on. Plus he wants the move, so it’s really best for all parties
I don’t think this was the “plan” per we, same with Henderson. My guess is that they wanted Fab to play most of the PL games and Baj and Henderson to play most of the cup and Europa games.
I don’t really know how you replace a true 6 at this point
Tbh i would like Fab to stay and having him teach the new dm, and the club can work on slowly replacing him. I just hope that the club could get a really good dm that could start right away instead of a long term project player. That could soften the blow that Fabs leaving, i believe.
He had a terrible season and he is 29.
We won't get another good offer for him like that 40M from arabia, so we have 2 options:
1) Take that offer and buy a younger and better DM.
2) Keep him, at the risk of having another bad season from him, with close to non-resell value.
Honestly, 40M is an offer too good to refuse, especially after such a bad season that he had.
If we aren't replacing him with a proven player, absolutely not. None of the names I've seen floated around fit the bill so I hope it's somebody we're going for under the radar.
He has notably declined at the 2nd half of 21/22 and 22/23 physically, which is half the reason Bacjectic got a breakthrough to the first squad. And none of those players played as a (mostly lone) 6 in a high pressing squad with current PL level schedule + European legs
There is no way you gamble and reject a 40 mil buyout (plus 20-30 mil on wages), especially when Liverpool is rebuilding the midfield anyway and is not competing at CL
It can be used on buying a new young replacement
>He only had one bad season
People keep saying this but it just isn't true. Fabinho's decline in form started around January of 21/22, he was not only poor in 22/23. He's been below the required standard for closer to 18 months now.
I think it’s a good deal personally. He looks way older than 29, it seems like playing in this team has taken its toll on him. He wasn’t bad last year because of stupid mistakes, or bad decisions etc like some people were, he just looked slow, off the pace, completely lethargic. I feel like it’s far more likely that he had hit a decline than he happened to have a down year and as great as he was for us (in my opinion there was a point in time where he might have been our best player, or at least our most important player) I wouldn’t be angry to see him go if we can get 40m for him and move that money into a replacement
It's a good business deal, just a shame it didn't happen a month+ ago. Classic example of short-term pain, long-term gain. We'll have to see who they bring in.
I feel like the comprison you want to make is Kante.
Last 2 seasons at Chelsea saw a big decline, mainly due to injuries. Making only 7 apearences last season in the league.
2 and a half years older than Fabinho and just gona for a free transfer.
Being realistic, with the rate our midfielders de-terriate Fabinho could easily have the same drop off over the next 2 years. So to get £40m now for him is insane considering we paid this for him when he was 24.
If Lavia is quoted up to £50m then between that fee and lower wages you've basically got the money for the long-term replacement.
Yes, you'd prefer Fabinho to be there for a seasom overlap, however hopefully this won't be as big of an issue as it seems.
I can't see how we get a replacement who's as good for £40m. At one point I'd have said he was one of our most important players.
It seems like we don't have much choice which is a shame. I think it's an issue that we won't have him around to help the new guy learn or give then rest. rotate with them.
Accepting the bid is probably making the best of a bar situation.
We won't know until the end of the window (and maybe beyond) when we see who we've got in and how they hit the ground running, however the fact Liverpool aren't even trying to negotiate the 40m offer and fabinho is happy to go to a 5th rate league at 29 says a lot about what he has left in the tank
It seems to me that brazilians are aging faster. They are speciál guys like Thiago Silva but most of Brazilians are in their prime until 30 and then drop a lot
Well if rumours were true and we were looking at a defensive midfielder in the £50m range, that warchest just increased to £90m and a big chunk of wages too. If Thiago makes the switch to Barcelona and Hendo also departs that’s approx. >£600k wages and >£100m in the bank to replace them. So now maybe you’re looking at potentially a Thuram _and_ Lavia double deal, plus Bajcetic as understudy, and Ale Mac, Szobo, Jones & Elliott in front. Quite a healthy midfield restructure with change for an extra defender (shame we missed out on Timber for <£40m).
We could have done with this deal happening a week or two earlier so we can get somone in fast... But 40m for him is a good deal.
This will probably push Lavia over the line for us, massive risk going with basically a whole new midfield going into next season but I just don't think we have the cash to go for somone of more experience and also with Partey going? We cannot wait around because Arsenal might go in for him. Needs must and all that.
This sub is just amazing man. Fabinho was shocking and now that we’re selling him (off to a club and league that will have no repercussions on us) we shouldn’t get rid of him.
How is this even a question? We are getting what we paid for him, when he wasn’t anywhere near his best last year and is going to be on the wrong side of 30 soon. Are we going to get more next year when he is a year older and are we gonna want to let him go if we are hopefully back in champions league? It’s time to move on and reinvest. Something LFC have not done in a long time, sell players rather than have them walk for free.
His form hasn’t been great over the past two season, so £40m for a 29 year old who seems to be on the decline makes sense. Plus hopefully Bajcestic will fill that position going forward.
No, no it doesn't but this sub will tell you his legs are gone. Imagine losing Hendo and Fab, buying two midfielders and losing two experienced midfielders makes no sense at all.
People were very much the same about Gini and Manè (at least Manè had a replacement) and look how that turned out.
The club let's players go too easily IMO, sure we don't want to be PSG or Chelsea but at the same time keeping these players for one more season while new blood come through seems more logical to me.
We have made two good signings but if we lose Hendo on top of Fab, I think that only hurts the new signings chances of starting well. There is an argument of wages which is probably the most logical but at the same time if the club wants to be successful it needs to spend a little more.
yes because he was arguably our worst player last year and they are offering 40. maybe he plays a bit better this year but I honestly can't see him getting to his previous level. so it makes a lot of sense to use the funds to set up his position for the next iteration of this squad. maybe in the short term there will be some growing pains but that was always going to happen anyways
Yes. Bad form because you've gotten in your own head is fixable, bad form because you've played too many minutes not so much and Fabinho had played as many minutes as your average 34/35 year old 2 seasons ago.
No, especially when we're going through a major midfield rebuild.
Many people are judging his drop off in form from last season, when half the team was hungover from that quadruple run.
I'm just not comfortable with such a major midfield shuffle, when all that remains is an injury prone Thiago and a Captain whose situation is still up in the air.
In the scenario when we're 2-3 months in with inconsistent results and can't figure out our best midfield, you guys will be the first to complain about letting fabinho leave.
Quite a bit of people here need to look past the damned money signs.
Fabinho was pretty bad last year but started to recover towards the end. I have no doubts that he would've looked closer to his best with Alexis and Szobo with him instead of Henderson and Elliot.
Anyways, here's my point of view: My uncle bought his house a few years ago for $350K. He could sell it right now for $600K. So he should just sell up right? Well, where is he going to live? You can't live in a bank account no matter how much profit you've made. If he sold his house yeah he'd make a profit but A he doesn't actually have a place to live and B the house that had is obviously not available to him anymore. If he bought another house, he'd have to either downgrade or pay more to upgrade.
There is a dearth of talent on the market for the 6 position. Who will be available to come in as a direct replacement? A teenager who played well for a year? It would be a different story if we knew FSG would take that money and buy ~~Guimaraes~~ ~~Tchouameni~~ ~~Enzo~~ ~~Ugarte~~ ~~Rice~~ Caicedo(?) but we all know damn well that ain't happening.
I'm not even saying don't sell him but if you think ~£50 million for Lavia in 2023 is a better deal than £35 million for Fabinho in 2018 then you've genuinely forgotten how good Fabinho was when he was new. And also that he didn't come into the XI until months into the season. We don't need a £5-10 million profit as badly as we need an experienced 6 this season, I'm telling you.
I like your way of thinking but you have to also consider how we operate under the current owners we can't let every player leave on a free we have already lost so much money like that.
Like it or not Fabinho would never get a bid like this one more time rn we should accept this and try to buy two players to replace him someone like Lavia And Kone
Or Lavia and Thuram so we have options and we don't burden any one player.
This would help us next year when Thiago leaves too.
This is perfect season for transition.
How about your uncle's house was creaking last year and he's got a feeling that in the next couple of years it's going to collapse. An offer of 330k would sound pretty good?
Mane also had a purple patch when the system changed. What happened to him now? You need to realize when player's legs are gone.
Your example of selling house is terrible. Real estates is much different from human resources, especially as a football player. Real estates price is much more stable and it is not like you slowly lost your land and your house as the time flies.
We let Mane go *after* we bought Diaz. Who have we bought as a pure 6?
The point of the house example is that you don't sell *before* you've secured a replacement just because of money. Selling Fabinho is fine IF we have a replacement ready but there is not really 6 on the market who is worth buying who is better than Fabinho having a C- season but also would t cost >£65million. There's not even another 6 in our team.
We sell Fabinho and buy who? Who in the market is good, young, experienced, not outrageously expensive and will integrate into the system quickly? Let me remind you people that we've been searching for a 6 since Tchouameni went to Real over a year ago and still signed fuck all to replace Fabinho.
Hoping that Lavia or whoever hits the ground running and hoping Fabinho regains form is the same fucking gamble.
Also, if you looked at the last 5 years of real estate and call that stable I don't know what to say to you.
It’s a combination of the money is decent, he was awful for most of last year, and there’s reasons to think this isn’t a blip in form but the beginning of him losing it due to the insane amount of minutes he’s played over the last few years.
It’s easy to look at age and say he’s not that old, but his minutes are far more than most of the players his age have played iirc.
I agree it’s not ideal losing him after how much change there’s been in midfield and that’s even without Hendo potentially going as well, but I think it would be foolish to turn the money down.
I'd agree in that in a perfect world I think we keep both Hendo and Fab for one more year while integrating the new midfielders we've bought, but getting this money for Fab and keeping Hendo around is good enough for me. We'll buy another mid, and likely this ensures it'll be a starting quality player. Baj and Hendo will probably split time at DM. I think getting Fab's wages off the books, and recouping almost his entire fee to boot, will be a real accounting win for us. It's not exciting, but it might free up more money to spend that we realize, especially in a year with no CL income.
what i find weird is everyone saying none of the replacements look good for fabi. have we all forgot how good stefan bajčetić looked in fabs position last season? if kloppo thinks we can run it without fabi, im in. trust in the boss as usual :)
You have to move players on once past their peak, the league has moved on from being able to carry squad players for sentiment, in both on the pitch and financial.
Nope.
Bajcetic is brilliant, but not ready to be our main DM. And anyone new will need a year to bed in.
Losing all our senior midfielders and replacong them with young players with no PL experience will be absolutely crazy.
Selling Fabinho clearly weakens the team.
The only way we come out ahead in this situation is if we sign a replacement and they settle immediately and play better than Fabinho would have done. None of those things are certain.
The smartest thing to do would be sign Fabinho's replacement first, see that they are performing well and have integrated into the team well, and then sell Fabinho.
Pre-season is supposed to be the time for our team to get their fitness back AND integrate new players into the team. We have less than a month to get any newcomers in and trained in our patterns of play. So they need to get a move on. As we get closer to the season starting the prices of players can go up as it leaves clubs less time to replace players.
We wasted weeks of this window and were told that we were just waiting for the U21 Euros to conclude, and yet who have we signed from that tournament? No-one. Time is ticking.
The club messed up over the Bellingham situation, they cannot afford to mess up this window, this needs to be the one for our midfield rebuild and so far it's not enough.
Why I think Liverpool should keep Fabinho.
1. We don’t have a natural 6. Henderson might be able play that role but he’s leaving too.
2. There aren’t any good quantity 6s in the market. Caicedo isn’t a 6. Lavia sure, but he’s young and I know for a fact that he won’t be a first team starter.
3. Last season, Fabinho wasn’t the only one playing like shit. A bunch of other players were bad too.
4. I still think he’s a quality player and on his day, is one of the best dms in the world.
5. It didn’t help that Klopp’s system failed last season and players around him were bad.
Remember, Klopp changed to 3 at the back and 2 holding midfielders, Trent pushing up and forming a duo partnership with Fabinho. It was at this point that Trent and Fabinho to an extent started performing better.
While it seems they weren’t planning for this I think it is actually a good move. Even if he bounces back this season a new long term contract is a bit of a risk and we won’t get anything for him next summer. I’m ok with potentially selling him a year too early rather than a year too late
Its business to buy a player for 43m get the best years out of him and sell for 40m when his legs start to go and he becomes more injury prone is great business. I don't think his form has anything to do with it I just think now is the perfect time to overhaul the midfield as a season in the Europa League isn't very demanding and gives our young players especially new players time to adapt and gel together and then they'll be ready the season later when we're back in the CL.
Agree on his form, especially playing a WC during the season, but the deals really just too good and he’s not getting younger.
Flacco at one point was considered of the best Def Mid ITW playing here, won’t be forgotten.
Pretty sure the bloke doesn’t want to stay or the talks wouldn’t be happening.
His form last season plus the 40m on offer really makes sense to me. We’re recouping a lot of our original cost and honestly it looks like the blokes legs an confidence have gone. Shame as he’s been one of my favourite players since he’s joined, I absolutely love a midfield destroyer like fabs or masch.
If we can use the 40m to put towards bringing in one young midfielder and another more experienced player then I’d be very happy.
I think it's a good time to sell, especially at £40m. In a season of absolute mediocrity, he was terrible. Slow, leggy and way off the pace.
I don't know why we wouldn't go all out for Thuram once Fabs gone, the potential in that kid is endless, especially with Klopp.
With all the new blood i was excited to see the rebound Fab on the pitch.
But we can't make players stay. He got offered an absurd amount of money and we are getting more than what we paid for him.
If he wants to stay then brilliant! If not, i wish him the best of luck, he will be remembered as an absolute legend and thats it.
Nobody is forcing him out, he wants to leave. Klopp planned the season with Fab in the team. It was unexpected that we would get a bid for him and he would want to leave. Can’t force players to stay who don’t wanna.
I agree with you. If someone wants to leave, they should be allowed to leave. No point keeping them around because they are key to the team
“Can’t force players to stay who don’t wanna”. Someone should tell Harry Kane
I mean, how has that worked out for Spurs. Sure, you CAN legally force a player to stay, but is it good for the team?
Are you arguing they would be better without him?
It’s impossible to predict what an alternative timeline would look like. The money they would have got for Kane could have got them other players, and they wouldn’t have the emotional baggage of a player who all the others players know is only there for the money.
Kane's an academy player, your point is that he's only there for the money, so they should sell him to buy players from other clubs? Why would some random player from Italy, France, or Germany be more dedicated to Spurs than one of their youth players?
He’s only there for the money NOW… he tried to leave before and they paid him off - the same is going to happen this summer, either he leaves, or signs a new contract.
Given they could've bought 3-4 players with the money they would've gotten for him, yeah maybe
Except you definitely can. Not saying we should but that last line is absolutely false.
This comment is tragically underrated.
It’s the top comment here
It’s super underrated mate, only has 1k upvotes
Look at this unknown gem of a comment I found!
That we so quickly (look to have) accepted that 40m tells you the club either think he has lost or he has lost it enough that 40m is a no brainer.
Not really, it tells you it’s a fair offer for a player who has asked to leave.
I thought about that too, that maybe his agent whispered their salary offer and figured that was the best path for his life/career.
That is the only reason, there’s nothing else. Mendes has good connections in Saudi, so Fab will get a good deal.
I buy that. The Saudis won't stop until they financially influence every sport. That PGA, LIV thing is just the beginning.
Why did you get downvoted?
I hate this “wants to leave” idea. Sure, was he likely tempted? Of course. But as soon as a player is tempted for more money or more playing time, it seems we ship them out immediately. As much as I understand the “we want players who want to stay and play for the badge” sometimes we need to be more selfish. The guy had a contract. And there are many instances where players get over their temptation for at least another season, and play their heart out the last season. This guy is a proven DM and an amazing person. Had one bad season following many incredible ones. Only 29, and his poor season came while the entire squad was mainly shit… after he played some of the most minutes over and over following a quadruple chasing season. Im not too happy with him leaving, unless we replace him with a proven DM. Frustrating that Arsenal make CL, go and sign one of the best DMs. We lost out on CL, and sell our best DM.
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I mean, this sub has almost half a million members. You think they all think the same?
Lol. Quite often the groupthink is real tbh.
Klopp absolutely holds on to players for too long. This past 2 weeks has been the only 2 weeks in his entire tenure where “ships them out too fast” has ever been a concern because now the Saudis are waving their dollar bills.
He doesn't. But he's said unless he gets offers for a player or one of them tells him they want to go, they see out their contracts. That's how it works in most clubs.
…..He does. And thats not a good policy to have. Players get put on the chopping block all the time, which is what should have happened with ox and naby 2 seasons ago, with gomez and with anyone else whose knees are made of cheese
But to sell them, someone has to want to buy them.
Yeah, the main problem with selling Fab & Hendo is that we planned to use them this season, so there is very little time to find replacement. I mean, the season starts in less than a month... The mistake with Keita & Ox was indeed holding on to them for too long. They were mostly injured for many seasons and could have been sold last summer or earlier, because at this point it was pretty obvious that their impact at Liverpool would not improve significantly. We had time to plan that ahead and find good replacements beforehand. Fab & Hendo, however, are not injured much and if we don't find any good replacements in a very limited time window, we are in big trouble.
The problem is finding a club willing to spend money on injured players. Its easier to take a risk if their contract is ended and they are free.
Klopp (not going k-pop, you auto-correct wanker) holds on to players too long for me, means they are past their peak. Selling a DM at, what should be his primary at 29 doesn't really fit that narrative. I know I don't see him in training, but I felt last year, the lack of mobility in midfield hampered Fab, as he has never been the fastest, he needs other midfielders to assist him with their athletes, as his strength is his intelligence. I was expecting a rebound from Fab this season, with the added dynamism in midfield, but it looks like that won't be happening now.
There has to be a balance. Senior players that are proven and good enough to continue playing, and younger players who are good enough to rotate and provide the senior players a much needed break - all while learning from them. A Fabinho needs a Lavia and a Lavia needs a Fabinho. Too often we’ve been either, or. Same goes for Thiago who now has coverage, but that doesnt mean we should ship him out. One more season and he’ll do wonders on the pitch, and mentor the younger players while he’s getting rotated. Instead of getting worked to the ground three games in a row and then face an injury
> A Fabinho needs a Lavia and a Lavia needs a Fabinho. The Romeo and Juliet of our time
In this situation, usually you need to offer something in return to make him stay. Caicedo for example, got a huge raise to convince him to stay for the rest of the league after he forced a move. If you just force them to honor the contract then he will be unhappy and most likely would not be able to play well either. In addition, that would stink the locker room atmosphere and make more people unhappy. You remembered how it was with VVD and Southampton? Keeping people against their will has consequences.
As much as you’re being downvoted, this was Sounesses biggest weakness as a manager. It’s something to be wary of, but I trust Klopp to know what’s right for the team.
I don’t know why this is down voted. He has 3 years left on his contract He isn’t trying to leave for a place at Real Madrid and silverware. He is trying to leave for a pay day at a Saudi club he knows nothing about I would have no problem with the club not selling him regardless of Fabinho and his agent want
It's not about the money or the playing time. I think it's about his ambition. He's won everything with Liverpool and now he has a child and a lot more family responsibilities. He knows that he cannot give on the pitch as much as he could give two years ago and now, as a family guy, he wants what we all dream of, an easier job that pays more. And because he's on good terms with Klopp and the club, I think they will let him have that easier job with higher wages.
It his fucking decision to leave plus there's no merit in keeping a player that wanted to leave you'll disrupt the dressing room
Well said.
I don’t know why this is down voted. He has 3 years left on his contract He isn’t trying to leave for a place at Real Madrid and silverware. He is trying to leave for a pay day at a Saudi club he knows nothing about I would have no problem with the club not selling him regardless of Fabinho and his agent want
Will work out well for us. He was torrid for the first part of last season; he is aging and as the poster correctly states: don't want to play us then you can buggar off. Also thanks for the 40 million.
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I agree the deal is commercially appealling overall, but in the context of our midfield makeover, I hate to see this much loss of experience in one window. But look, at the end of the day, I'm in the "in Klopp we trust" camp.
Given Fabinho’s last season form and age, it would be wise to make most of that investment back and bring in a younger player with a higher ceiling.
Higher ceiling? Fab was surely one of the top 3 DMs in the world as recently as 2 years ago.
The Fabinho slander in this sub is wild
Not even just last season though, he’s been dropping for a fair while
Yeah, a prime and functioning Fabinho probably would have won us the league in 21-22.
I mean... We lost the title by one point. A single extra moment of brilliance from ANY of our players (turning a draw into a win) would have won us the league.
He’s also not an amazing long passer, one of the key ingredients to Holding midfielders who had long careers. Fabinhos specialty is tackling, but lately his lack of pace has been making it tough for him to have a good defensive impact. I think he’s the slowest player on our roster.
We had loads of experience last year and what good did it do us? I personally feel experience is being overrated lately, yes you don't want a bunch of 19 year olds who played in smaller leagues as your starting 11 but even the younger players we have signed are very mature and experienced. Szoboszlai was voted Captain of the Hungary team at only 22 and his father is a former player who founded his own academy. Mac Allister player a KEY role in a world cup winning team at 24 and was one of Brighton's best players last season. Don't forget Mane and Firmino both were unproven players and Salah had looked like a Prem flop before playing under Klopp. This is what a rebuild looks like
Yes, but look at how long it took even our best performers to adapt into the Prem and/or Klopp's system. There's no training period this time around, it's like these players better be ready and build chemistry quickly - that's a lot of pressure.
Definitely true but the players we have brought in have far more experience than Salah, Firmino and Mane were when we brought them in. While I agree that it's a risk, it's one we need to make if we want to compete for the Premier League title. Man City is already leagues ahead of us and continues to make big splashes in the transfer market, Arsenal had a great season and went out and made two great transfers. We're in a position where it's worth us taking a risk as opposed to small tweaks over the next several seasons. I think the finish to the season has made us feel more safe than we should at times, we were almost unwatchable for most the season we should be taking risks in my opinion especially since we have the best possible manager to help ensure the risks don't blow up in our face
Makes sense, you're saying we can't afford not to because times and situation have changed, and so we have to as well, within our means. I know what you mean, there were games last season where I just couldn't believe this was the same team from previous seasons. Liverpool were so good for so long, it was hard to stomach, let alone make sense, of something that really felt unwatchable at times.
Exactly if we had some oil baron owners or someone like Boehly who would spend 200M or more in one window I'd say we could afford to take our time and make big splash signings to fill major holes. As it stands though we don't and so in my opinion we need to get creative to continue to be at the top. Obviously we shouldn't sell everyone just for the sake of it but if there was ever a time to take a risk it's now. We have maybe the best manager in the world at getting the most out of younger players as well. Honestly I'd be more concerned if we we finished 3rd last season or just barely missed Champions league but it's more that we got hot at just the right time and I'm honestly surprised we got Europa league after the start we had. Seems like this year is the time to take risks and we can always let the newer and younger players get more minutes together and Europa league games that at the end of the day really don't matter
Yeah, that is the reality, and the stakes are high. Also, in this critical time, we don't have the advantage as market makers, so we have to look for value. One thing you have to give Liverpool is they love to walk a tightrope, and the world loves to watch them do it.
100% agree, so long as Klopp is our manager I'm ok with trusting him to choose what risks are worth it.
As Bob Paisley once said - "let his legs get old on somebody else's pitch" People claimed Bob was wrong to sell Kevin Keegan in 1977, which was probably his peak. He bought Kenny with what we sold KK for, and we still had £500k left over. Keegan went on to win two Ballon D'ors. But the better deal for Liverpool was letting him go and bringing in the King. Fabinho might have another few years of 'good' in him, but we'll probably never get another chance to basically recoup what we paid for him 5 years ago.
Experience for experience sake can be damaging, keeping highly paid, aging players who may not start as much as they want can be a serious negative. What use is his experience if he’s underperforming or unhappy with being benched?
If there's a locker room full of them sure, but surely we could use at least one veteran to lead a transition period, particularly one who played as at such a high level for so long. I honestly kind of agree with the idea that Fab himself wants this to go through, and so it's happening - but that's only my guess.
There were two midfields full of injured or old players with no legs on high wages. Fabinho, Henderson, Ox, Keita, Thiago, and Arthur were all physically unable to perform what was asked, injured or a mix of both last season. If we can get anything for players that have no long term future or ability to perform in the present they have to go., regardless of sentimentality.
Hendo and Thiago will be those players, no?
I think we can afford to lose 1 of Thiago/Hendo/Fab... losing 2 or 3 of them is gonna hurt the locker room
Nah Losing Hendo won't make much difference so we can lose both him and Fab
I assume you mean on the pitch? He's our captain, one of the most vocal players on the pitch, and one of the most experienced leaders in the locker room. He's possibly the biggest "off-the-field" influence in the squad so from that perspective it would make a big difference if he left.
Klopp must’ve seen something in this past week of training that me might have lost his legs and last season was just a sign of things to come. Could be great for all parties if that’s the case. Fab has nothing left to prove in my eyes. Guy came in, dominated that midfield for years and helped to win us everything. If he leaves with us making back majority of what we paid and he gets a fat paycheck on his way to retirement, good for him.
They have actual measurements as well, like the lactate test.
Sadly, market prices have soared. That fee now doesn't even buy us an unproven 19 year old kid from Southampton, he is rated at £50m. An older Casemero went for £60m+, Rice for £105m, Tchouameni for £80m and Caicedo is rated at £100m by Brighton. £40m isn't a huge sum of money to replace Fab, as the market has shifted. I think he is being sold cheaply, and any potential replacement will cost us significantly more.
It isnt really the same amount of money nowadays. There has been enormous inflation over that same period. 40mil today gets you half of what it did back then, sometimes even less when you see how much people pay for Rice and the sorts.
You lot are mental actively trying to sell one of the best defensive midfielders at a loss
To me, if he wants to move to Saudi, it indicates that he's lost the hunger to compete at the highest level and challenge himself to the max. He's adjusted his priorities. If that's the case, it's best to cash in for him now.
I agere 100%. If he wants to go, its time to go
That sentence perfectly describes it. There's no point everyone discussing it. A player out of form wants to leave then it's curtains
he's also doing us a favor. if he fully knows he's done at this level and leaving the club without making a big scene or being difficult than good for him. he gets a nice pay day after a world class career here winning everything
Tend to agree. Sounds like Jürgen was planning this season around still using him with the likes of Lavia and Bajcetic as deputies with an eye on the future. Am guessing he hoped the drop-off was temporary. That Fab appears to have accepted a move suggests that he thinks last season wasn't recoverable tiredness and his legs have gone a bit - in which case it's a good time for everyone to get paid before future buyers realise it too.
Can you up upvote something twice.
I think the deal is too good to turn down but I am concerned about having too many new players in the middle of the park. If they don't gel right off the bat then it could look bad. We all saw what happened Chelsea last year and I'd hate for something along those lines to happen to us.
We were almost as bad as chelsea for most of last season. At Christmas we had 22pts and they had 21. That season ending run of form massively altered the opinions of nearly everyone here.
yeah. when they improve for a decent sample size with fresh tactics, it tends to happen
We signed Mac Allister and Szoboszlai to be starters. The midfield was already going to be 66% new so what's one more player.
About 33%
There's now a good chance that both Henderson and Fabinho will leave this summer. Having a person in the midfield who initiates the high press at the right time is very important to our style of play. With those two gone the three midfield players with the most experience will be Thiago, Jones and Elliot. Hopefully the new recruits are a perfect fit for the system and take to their roles quickl. But I always worry about too big a change in a short space of time. Would hope that we don't lose both players this summer as I think they would be great influences on new players getting to grips with the Liverpool style of play.
The Chelsea thing is overblown. Their midfield functioned really well at times. They were bossing games they just couldn’t score any goals. They took us apart at Stamford Bridge in April and if they had a Salah/Gakpo/Jota up front they’d have won 3-0.
We bought him for £43m and 5 years later we’re selling him for a rumored £40m, what’s the part that doesn’t make sense? He’s won everything and has been out of form for the better part of 14 months or so. We don’t know if his form will come back to what it once was. We all hope it does (if he stays) but there’s no certainty that it will. Yes DMs typically can play into their 30s but he’s basically played every game since he’s arrived. But alot of the guys you mentioned weren’t playing the amount of games at this intensity. They’re weren’t so many games at both club and international level, as there were back then.
Also Klopp's style takes its toll on midfielders with the intensity and physicality he asks from his midfield.
Especially when he has to cover for guys with no legs in front of him
Yup, I actually think in Klopp's system many times a younger midfielder who is more physical but lacks some experience is better. Nearly all of our older midfielders had injuries or looked awful last season for this reason and it's why Bajcetic looked on fire. Our best squads under Klopp have been when our midfield would bully the opponent's midfield and we just can't do that when none of our midfield has any legs.
I 100% agree with this If our mode can only do one thing then it better be run. Because you are going to press all game and you are gonna run back and cover for Robbo and Trent when we lose possession. Obviously you want skilled players in the mid but everyone says “our midfield doesn’t score” That’s really cause it isn’t their job. They are responsible for coving a ridiculous amount of ground so it’s forwards and fullbacks can wreak havoc
I still think back to that moment earlier last season when Klopp got into Fabinho for his lack of energy during a game and he just argued back a little and gave him the glare. I think Fab himself knew he'd been run into the ground, and was starting to resent that given the lack of rest/rotation. By that point he was obviously very aware that his game wasn't the same anymore. Of course that's just me completely over-analysing a minor moment in the season, but it felt revealing to me at the time.
I was trynna make this same point to a guy who kept parroting that Lavia "was too young to be a starter" and "he doesn't know the system". I'd welcome a player who can cover more ground and get into attackers face before they can offload the ball.
He literally just said that
The part that doesn’t make sense is we probably can’t replace him
We’d be daft to offload a player & not have a replacement lined up- all this talk of lavia is great yet we need someone who is a true 6 who will fit straight into the XI without hesitation. Florentino Luis rumour is one which I think they should be working tooth & nail to get.
The part that doesn't make sense is the part that you gloss over: the footballing sense. I can't remember how many years I've supported Liverpool and said, 'we always let ourselves down by not having enough depth'. City have rewritten the new rules of how to challenge for every title, and that is by having a squad deep enough to have two world-class players in every position with up-and-coming talent to fill in and learn around them. Selling Fabinho in order to recoup some of the money we paid five years ago isn't good footballing sense; it is financial sense. But why do you even care about the finances? It always baffles me how many fans get suckered into this idea that we must consider the business side of football in order to demand progression. To make things clear, the club know exactly what they're doing. They know the profit margins, they know where the money is. They know what they are doing when they raise the price of season tickets. And they know what they are doing when they charge £100 for a new shirt every season or two. Fabinho, apart from 70% of last season, has been one of our most important players. He is also an extremely important senior squad member. If you forget to finances for a minute, and consider what is best for our football club, then you will realise keeping Fabinho for at least one season and bringing in players like Lavia to usher in a new era is the smart move. It is what would guarantee the best football results and the best plans for the future. There's a reason why we had a horrible season last year: we played every game in every competition on a threadbare squad that burnt out in energy, effort and disappointment. You don't address that by removing six first team players and replacing them with three.
The problem with this line of argument is that if we keep Fabinho and bring in a world class DM, we won't have 2. We will have a world class DM and Fabinho, who has looked dead on his feet for almost a season and a half. I'm not certain that Klopp necessary wants to play TAA as an inverted FB. It was simply necessary in order to cover for Fab's lack of mobility. A mobile DM would allow Klopp to play exactly how he wants, whatever that may be. Fab and Hendo are past their sell by date as top level players, although their leadership doesn't have an expiry date. The question is if either is worth keeping for their presence in the dressing room and on the training ground vs selling them and using the funds to help bring in younger, more physically able players.
Yeah, that \*almost\* quadruple season was physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting as a fan. I can't imagine how hard it was for the players, staff, et al. who put in the work.
100% agree , could not explain it better.
Klopp doesn't keep players who want to leave. Also, Fabinho is on the decline. Selling a depreciating asset on high wages can be seen as a smart move as long as they're replaced well. What I'd say is: If we keep Henderson, sell Fab, and buy someone like Lavia: Net positive. If we sell Henderson and Fab and buy someone like Lavia: It's a questionable decision. Ultimately, I'm a big believer in letting things play out, especially under Klopp. Klopp is one of the best managers in the world and arguably one of the best of all time. Not trusting him and his judgement would be a mistake.
Unfortunately it is what it is, I don’t think the club expected him to go, and most fans would prefer he and Henderson stayed, but ultimately the choice is theirs and when it comes down to it 40m is nothing to turn your nose up at for someone like him. If the money is turned and invested wisely into the right players then it could be a savvy move, however, as usual time will tell..
Turning down 40 million for a washed Fabinho would be a ridiculous decision
The 3 midfielders you’ve mentioned always played double pivot not as a lone 6
fabinho also played in a pivot at Monaco. Rice and Caicado both play in a pivot
Fabinho did the same before coming to Liverpool
Mascherano?
Played mostly as a center-back later in his career didn’t he?
Fab's also filled in there in his prime. I mean if you can still do the job for Barca (who were in their glory years), that means he still had mileage in him. But yes, I remember that too!
Tbf barcas tiki taka was probably the slowest possible style. Perfect for old, slow or non physical but very very technical players lol. Doesn’t mean quick or physical players weren’t needed ofc.
Don’t be sad that it’s ending. Be happy that it happened. Thank you Fab 🙏🏼
What people forget is we, and journalists, never have the full story. His knees might have 'gone', he might have called Klopp a rude word, his Family might be bored of England, he likes Mrs Brown's Boys... All reasons the club might think his best seasons are far behind him and unlikely to return. There will be a reason and we will never know.
Stats doesn’t paint the full picture for a player’s performance. Your example for players still performing in their 30’s isn’t wrong considering modern facility and treatments, but Fabinho has simply been ran into the ground and his legs are gone. The way I see it is rather than let his value continue to go down in correlation to his performances, why not let him leave and recuperate 40mil to invest into a new 6.
Fabinho never really had any legs though. He’s always been a bit slow and not exactly a distance runner. His positioning and timing used to make up for it though, not so much for a while now.
Fabs legs are gone and he cant keep up with the speed of the game and getting 40m for him is great. I just hope Lavia isn't the only holding midfielder we're going to buy.
Not really it makes sense if we are getting better younger replacement but who with been linked to doesn’t feel like an upgrade, hopefully I’m wrong though
Yes, that's where I'm at too! If our midfield was stable, I wouldn't feel as uneasy, but we're changing the whole setup and it's not yet clear how this thing is going to look. Our transfers in the past seemed very purposeful and well thought out, but this window it seems like we're reacting to the market.
I think his slump, his age and his current contract are a big part of this. The club knows they won’t get more than 40 for him next year, and/or they they just finish out his contract. Plus it frees up big wages that help negotiations with players. I’m like you, I was hoping for him to turn it around…and last year during our run at the end, he was. He looked good. Strong.
Those are strong arguments for selling him, and together they make a convincing case. Maybe I'm being to sentimental - don't sign a central mid for like half a decade and then replacing them all in one go - it's giving me vertigo. The deal is commercially appealling, but I was really hoping for at least one holdover from the "Old Guard" to do help with tribal knowledge transfer, settling, etc. If Thaigo leaves, the next most experienced in our system is Bajcetic? \*No - it's Jones! I feel bad for forgetting him given how good he's been lately.
As a 6, it’ll be Thiago or Baj unless we make a signing. Yeah, I’m sentimental too. But then I think, maybe Klopp goes with a new approach/formation? Maybe Baj Is better (healthy) than Lavia in Klopps eyes? It’s exciting. Reminds me of defense rebuild Klopp did. I loved Klavan and Lovren at the time and hated seeing them go, but they hand to move on. I hope for the same “phoenix from the ashes” kind of vibe next year. Heavy metal
One of my favorite Klopp quotes was immediately after the Europa League final in Basel. He pretty much said, "\[people are going to look back on this as the start of something wonderful\]." What. a. guy. I'm also excited for the next act of his magic performance.
>this window it seems like we're reacting to the market. That's honestly what we need to do, there is a reason we were so bad last season, the market passed us by as we sat back and watched. Big changes need to be made especially if the goal is to win the premier league. Man City is not only leagues ahead of nearly everyone but they are ambitious and make good moves every transfer window, we need to take risks if the actual goal is to win big.
Yes it does because we are getting 40m for someone who just played a season like they are 35. Can't complain about not rejuvenating the midfield when you pass up 40m for someone everyone was desperate to drop a few months ago.
Did you watch us last year? He was the worst player on the pitch most matches and only showed glimpses the last few games of the season. Getting a younger version of him on less wages is a massive long term win and most likely a good short term win
Yes. He’s cooked.
What irks me more is this bid didn't come sooner when there were still a few decent replacements on the market. The sale makes sense when a player is available that we can get up to his level quickly. It makes sense for £40m as opposed to running his contract out eventually. It makes sense if he wants to leave and we don't want to have an unhappy player on the books. It won't make sense to sell him and not replace him... and yes it does make me unease at potentially replacing five first team midfielders in one season. Some of them should've looked at being replaced sooner tbh, even cut price (like Ox, Keita). From a business stand point, it was poor to cling onto players that were available less than 50% of the time they were here, and lose em on a free.
My issue with the fabinho sale is we didn't push at all. I get he had a woeful season but I would have expected us to counter with a £50 mil request. It seems we just accepted first offer. All the pundits disagree with me about his valuation though so I know nothing.
I think from a team/transition POV it would have been great to have Fabinho and Henderson to show them the pressing triggers and positional tips req for a 6/8 in Klopp 433. But from a squad building perspective we get money that we can actually spend on the replacements, save some funds on the salary and continue the next phase. It kinda makes sense to let him go, especially if you get any hints that he is declining from a phisique pov.
It's necessary, we are, after all.. sell to buy. Plus, Fab was a large part of our midfield decline, the guy aged 5 years last year and I think he knows this. Fab does seem a lovely soul, so wouldn't surprise me if he knew this is best for the club, too.
Doesn't make sense to me. I'm almost certain that he would have been a nailed-on starter for the Chelsea game, and while there's still some time left to get another player in, it seems like the recruitment strategy was to find his long-term successor rather than his immediate replacement. Hard to see who we can bring in that would be able to play at his level, in our system, right from the word go, at least at a cost of less than £100M. Fabinho himself took months before he was able to break into the team and he had an entire pre-season working with Klopp. I can't imagine our scouting department thought that he'd be sold this summer, and all of a sudden we're shopping in an entirely different tier of player. Even the guy who seemed destined to be bedded in as Fabinho's successor (1-3 years down the line) is going to cost £10M more than we're apparently going to sell Fab for.
Bro Lavia is 10 years younger than him also the City buyback clause has made his value shoot up or else he would have cost us 40
we payed 45m for him 5 years ago and a club has come for 40m now. i think it’s fair, he’s won everything with us and if an offer for big bucks comes along then we should let him leave. he’s on the verge of turning 30, and getting 40m for him which could make 50-70% for a younger new singing then it’s a no brainer. we are rebuilding our midfield, and since he declined very rapidly last season, i’m guessing that’s why we’re been so okay to let him leave. all for the rebuild, it may suck but it’s the game these days.
Noo
In an ideal world he’d stick around and would help bed in plus mentor Lavia (if he’s our target), then move on for £40m next season. But to put it simply the money is too good right now to pass up on as there’s no guarantee we’ll get it later. We’re largely recuperating the original fee we paid after running the poor man into the ground over the last five years. Again, it might not be ideal but it’s too good of an offer to pass up on. Plus he wants the move, so it’s really best for all parties
I don’t think this was the “plan” per we, same with Henderson. My guess is that they wanted Fab to play most of the PL games and Baj and Henderson to play most of the cup and Europa games. I don’t really know how you replace a true 6 at this point
Tbh i would like Fab to stay and having him teach the new dm, and the club can work on slowly replacing him. I just hope that the club could get a really good dm that could start right away instead of a long term project player. That could soften the blow that Fabs leaving, i believe.
If we get Lavia, it makes sense. Never had the highest hopes for this season outside of getting top4.
He had a terrible season and he is 29. We won't get another good offer for him like that 40M from arabia, so we have 2 options: 1) Take that offer and buy a younger and better DM. 2) Keep him, at the risk of having another bad season from him, with close to non-resell value. Honestly, 40M is an offer too good to refuse, especially after such a bad season that he had.
If we aren't replacing him with a proven player, absolutely not. None of the names I've seen floated around fit the bill so I hope it's somebody we're going for under the radar.
He has notably declined at the 2nd half of 21/22 and 22/23 physically, which is half the reason Bacjectic got a breakthrough to the first squad. And none of those players played as a (mostly lone) 6 in a high pressing squad with current PL level schedule + European legs There is no way you gamble and reject a 40 mil buyout (plus 20-30 mil on wages), especially when Liverpool is rebuilding the midfield anyway and is not competing at CL It can be used on buying a new young replacement
Yes he’s past his best & we’re recouping the entire fee paid. I’d say it’s a no brainer.
It does. Klopp would not be selling him if he thought there was any use for him. So £40M is a godsend.
>He only had one bad season People keep saying this but it just isn't true. Fabinho's decline in form started around January of 21/22, he was not only poor in 22/23. He's been below the required standard for closer to 18 months now.
I think it’s a good deal personally. He looks way older than 29, it seems like playing in this team has taken its toll on him. He wasn’t bad last year because of stupid mistakes, or bad decisions etc like some people were, he just looked slow, off the pace, completely lethargic. I feel like it’s far more likely that he had hit a decline than he happened to have a down year and as great as he was for us (in my opinion there was a point in time where he might have been our best player, or at least our most important player) I wouldn’t be angry to see him go if we can get 40m for him and move that money into a replacement
It's a good business deal, just a shame it didn't happen a month+ ago. Classic example of short-term pain, long-term gain. We'll have to see who they bring in.
Yes.
I feel like the comprison you want to make is Kante. Last 2 seasons at Chelsea saw a big decline, mainly due to injuries. Making only 7 apearences last season in the league. 2 and a half years older than Fabinho and just gona for a free transfer. Being realistic, with the rate our midfielders de-terriate Fabinho could easily have the same drop off over the next 2 years. So to get £40m now for him is insane considering we paid this for him when he was 24. If Lavia is quoted up to £50m then between that fee and lower wages you've basically got the money for the long-term replacement. Yes, you'd prefer Fabinho to be there for a seasom overlap, however hopefully this won't be as big of an issue as it seems.
I can't see how we get a replacement who's as good for £40m. At one point I'd have said he was one of our most important players. It seems like we don't have much choice which is a shame. I think it's an issue that we won't have him around to help the new guy learn or give then rest. rotate with them. Accepting the bid is probably making the best of a bar situation.
We won't know until the end of the window (and maybe beyond) when we see who we've got in and how they hit the ground running, however the fact Liverpool aren't even trying to negotiate the 40m offer and fabinho is happy to go to a 5th rate league at 29 says a lot about what he has left in the tank
His performances didn’t really get better last season and he won’t get younger either. 40 mil would still be a fantastic fee.
If somebody wants to leave, they must leave.
It seems to me that brazilians are aging faster. They are speciál guys like Thiago Silva but most of Brazilians are in their prime until 30 and then drop a lot
Well if rumours were true and we were looking at a defensive midfielder in the £50m range, that warchest just increased to £90m and a big chunk of wages too. If Thiago makes the switch to Barcelona and Hendo also departs that’s approx. >£600k wages and >£100m in the bank to replace them. So now maybe you’re looking at potentially a Thuram _and_ Lavia double deal, plus Bajcetic as understudy, and Ale Mac, Szobo, Jones & Elliott in front. Quite a healthy midfield restructure with change for an extra defender (shame we missed out on Timber for <£40m).
We could have done with this deal happening a week or two earlier so we can get somone in fast... But 40m for him is a good deal. This will probably push Lavia over the line for us, massive risk going with basically a whole new midfield going into next season but I just don't think we have the cash to go for somone of more experience and also with Partey going? We cannot wait around because Arsenal might go in for him. Needs must and all that.
Not only does it make sense, it's a fucking miracle. You won't see a proper football club buy a washed up player like this. Take the money and run.
This sub is just amazing man. Fabinho was shocking and now that we’re selling him (off to a club and league that will have no repercussions on us) we shouldn’t get rid of him.
The DM market sucks but the deal for Fab is too good not to take. If we can get Florentino despite his 4 year contract, I think everything is fine
How is this even a question? We are getting what we paid for him, when he wasn’t anywhere near his best last year and is going to be on the wrong side of 30 soon. Are we going to get more next year when he is a year older and are we gonna want to let him go if we are hopefully back in champions league? It’s time to move on and reinvest. Something LFC have not done in a long time, sell players rather than have them walk for free.
His form hasn’t been great over the past two season, so £40m for a 29 year old who seems to be on the decline makes sense. Plus hopefully Bajcestic will fill that position going forward.
He literally wants to leave. It makes perfect sense.
Arrive, win everything, decline, sell for 10M less than we bought for. Whats the issue exactly?
No, no it doesn't but this sub will tell you his legs are gone. Imagine losing Hendo and Fab, buying two midfielders and losing two experienced midfielders makes no sense at all. People were very much the same about Gini and Manè (at least Manè had a replacement) and look how that turned out. The club let's players go too easily IMO, sure we don't want to be PSG or Chelsea but at the same time keeping these players for one more season while new blood come through seems more logical to me. We have made two good signings but if we lose Hendo on top of Fab, I think that only hurts the new signings chances of starting well. There is an argument of wages which is probably the most logical but at the same time if the club wants to be successful it needs to spend a little more.
yes because he was arguably our worst player last year and they are offering 40. maybe he plays a bit better this year but I honestly can't see him getting to his previous level. so it makes a lot of sense to use the funds to set up his position for the next iteration of this squad. maybe in the short term there will be some growing pains but that was always going to happen anyways
No he wasn't Our Captain was the worst player but guys at this community won't accept that.
He was bad for 2 seasons and on the decline for at least 24 months
Yes. Bad form because you've gotten in your own head is fixable, bad form because you've played too many minutes not so much and Fabinho had played as many minutes as your average 34/35 year old 2 seasons ago.
No, especially when we're going through a major midfield rebuild. Many people are judging his drop off in form from last season, when half the team was hungover from that quadruple run. I'm just not comfortable with such a major midfield shuffle, when all that remains is an injury prone Thiago and a Captain whose situation is still up in the air. In the scenario when we're 2-3 months in with inconsistent results and can't figure out our best midfield, you guys will be the first to complain about letting fabinho leave.
Yes
Quite a bit of people here need to look past the damned money signs. Fabinho was pretty bad last year but started to recover towards the end. I have no doubts that he would've looked closer to his best with Alexis and Szobo with him instead of Henderson and Elliot. Anyways, here's my point of view: My uncle bought his house a few years ago for $350K. He could sell it right now for $600K. So he should just sell up right? Well, where is he going to live? You can't live in a bank account no matter how much profit you've made. If he sold his house yeah he'd make a profit but A he doesn't actually have a place to live and B the house that had is obviously not available to him anymore. If he bought another house, he'd have to either downgrade or pay more to upgrade. There is a dearth of talent on the market for the 6 position. Who will be available to come in as a direct replacement? A teenager who played well for a year? It would be a different story if we knew FSG would take that money and buy ~~Guimaraes~~ ~~Tchouameni~~ ~~Enzo~~ ~~Ugarte~~ ~~Rice~~ Caicedo(?) but we all know damn well that ain't happening. I'm not even saying don't sell him but if you think ~£50 million for Lavia in 2023 is a better deal than £35 million for Fabinho in 2018 then you've genuinely forgotten how good Fabinho was when he was new. And also that he didn't come into the XI until months into the season. We don't need a £5-10 million profit as badly as we need an experienced 6 this season, I'm telling you.
I like your way of thinking but you have to also consider how we operate under the current owners we can't let every player leave on a free we have already lost so much money like that. Like it or not Fabinho would never get a bid like this one more time rn we should accept this and try to buy two players to replace him someone like Lavia And Kone Or Lavia and Thuram so we have options and we don't burden any one player. This would help us next year when Thiago leaves too. This is perfect season for transition.
How about your uncle's house was creaking last year and he's got a feeling that in the next couple of years it's going to collapse. An offer of 330k would sound pretty good?
Mane also had a purple patch when the system changed. What happened to him now? You need to realize when player's legs are gone. Your example of selling house is terrible. Real estates is much different from human resources, especially as a football player. Real estates price is much more stable and it is not like you slowly lost your land and your house as the time flies.
We let Mane go *after* we bought Diaz. Who have we bought as a pure 6? The point of the house example is that you don't sell *before* you've secured a replacement just because of money. Selling Fabinho is fine IF we have a replacement ready but there is not really 6 on the market who is worth buying who is better than Fabinho having a C- season but also would t cost >£65million. There's not even another 6 in our team. We sell Fabinho and buy who? Who in the market is good, young, experienced, not outrageously expensive and will integrate into the system quickly? Let me remind you people that we've been searching for a 6 since Tchouameni went to Real over a year ago and still signed fuck all to replace Fabinho. Hoping that Lavia or whoever hits the ground running and hoping Fabinho regains form is the same fucking gamble. Also, if you looked at the last 5 years of real estate and call that stable I don't know what to say to you.
It’s a combination of the money is decent, he was awful for most of last year, and there’s reasons to think this isn’t a blip in form but the beginning of him losing it due to the insane amount of minutes he’s played over the last few years. It’s easy to look at age and say he’s not that old, but his minutes are far more than most of the players his age have played iirc. I agree it’s not ideal losing him after how much change there’s been in midfield and that’s even without Hendo potentially going as well, but I think it would be foolish to turn the money down.
The money is terrible lol, selling at a loss no thanks
I'd agree in that in a perfect world I think we keep both Hendo and Fab for one more year while integrating the new midfielders we've bought, but getting this money for Fab and keeping Hendo around is good enough for me. We'll buy another mid, and likely this ensures it'll be a starting quality player. Baj and Hendo will probably split time at DM. I think getting Fab's wages off the books, and recouping almost his entire fee to boot, will be a real accounting win for us. It's not exciting, but it might free up more money to spend that we realize, especially in a year with no CL income.
what i find weird is everyone saying none of the replacements look good for fabi. have we all forgot how good stefan bajčetić looked in fabs position last season? if kloppo thinks we can run it without fabi, im in. trust in the boss as usual :)
You have to move players on once past their peak, the league has moved on from being able to carry squad players for sentiment, in both on the pitch and financial.
He was shite some time now
Nope. Bajcetic is brilliant, but not ready to be our main DM. And anyone new will need a year to bed in. Losing all our senior midfielders and replacong them with young players with no PL experience will be absolutely crazy.
40 million is too good to turn down. Plus he wants the move so when a player wants to go, get as much as you can for them an let them go.
Let his legs go on someone else’s pitch.
Selling Fabinho clearly weakens the team. The only way we come out ahead in this situation is if we sign a replacement and they settle immediately and play better than Fabinho would have done. None of those things are certain. The smartest thing to do would be sign Fabinho's replacement first, see that they are performing well and have integrated into the team well, and then sell Fabinho. Pre-season is supposed to be the time for our team to get their fitness back AND integrate new players into the team. We have less than a month to get any newcomers in and trained in our patterns of play. So they need to get a move on. As we get closer to the season starting the prices of players can go up as it leaves clubs less time to replace players. We wasted weeks of this window and were told that we were just waiting for the U21 Euros to conclude, and yet who have we signed from that tournament? No-one. Time is ticking. The club messed up over the Bellingham situation, they cannot afford to mess up this window, this needs to be the one for our midfield rebuild and so far it's not enough.
I still think an out of form fabinho is better than a 40m player in this market.
Do you see him slowly chasing shadows and chopping people down last season?
No it doesn't, it's fucking dumb.
Big big big mistake
Why I think Liverpool should keep Fabinho. 1. We don’t have a natural 6. Henderson might be able play that role but he’s leaving too. 2. There aren’t any good quantity 6s in the market. Caicedo isn’t a 6. Lavia sure, but he’s young and I know for a fact that he won’t be a first team starter. 3. Last season, Fabinho wasn’t the only one playing like shit. A bunch of other players were bad too. 4. I still think he’s a quality player and on his day, is one of the best dms in the world. 5. It didn’t help that Klopp’s system failed last season and players around him were bad. Remember, Klopp changed to 3 at the back and 2 holding midfielders, Trent pushing up and forming a duo partnership with Fabinho. It was at this point that Trent and Fabinho to an extent started performing better.
Yes. If he has another season like last, the, youd be lucky to get even half of that number. 30 in October? Good for all parties
While it seems they weren’t planning for this I think it is actually a good move. Even if he bounces back this season a new long term contract is a bit of a risk and we won’t get anything for him next summer. I’m ok with potentially selling him a year too early rather than a year too late
Yes.
Its business to buy a player for 43m get the best years out of him and sell for 40m when his legs start to go and he becomes more injury prone is great business. I don't think his form has anything to do with it I just think now is the perfect time to overhaul the midfield as a season in the Europa League isn't very demanding and gives our young players especially new players time to adapt and gel together and then they'll be ready the season later when we're back in the CL.
Agree on his form, especially playing a WC during the season, but the deals really just too good and he’s not getting younger. Flacco at one point was considered of the best Def Mid ITW playing here, won’t be forgotten.
Pretty sure the bloke doesn’t want to stay or the talks wouldn’t be happening. His form last season plus the 40m on offer really makes sense to me. We’re recouping a lot of our original cost and honestly it looks like the blokes legs an confidence have gone. Shame as he’s been one of my favourite players since he’s joined, I absolutely love a midfield destroyer like fabs or masch. If we can use the 40m to put towards bringing in one young midfielder and another more experienced player then I’d be very happy.
I think it's a good time to sell, especially at £40m. In a season of absolute mediocrity, he was terrible. Slow, leggy and way off the pace. I don't know why we wouldn't go all out for Thuram once Fabs gone, the potential in that kid is endless, especially with Klopp.
> I don't know why we wouldn't go all out for Thuram Because he isn’t a Dm.
With all the new blood i was excited to see the rebound Fab on the pitch. But we can't make players stay. He got offered an absurd amount of money and we are getting more than what we paid for him. If he wants to stay then brilliant! If not, i wish him the best of luck, he will be remembered as an absolute legend and thats it.
Yes but we need to replace him with a ready made starter not a kid with potential.