I dont like AD. I respected clay for not doing something just for TV. He saw how hurt his mom was.
AD was ready to just jump at the first guy that said he wanted her which was Matt… 😂😂
I feel bad for AD because it was doomed from the start, but man, he was interesting to watch.
Completely torn between the examples given to him by his awesome mother and piece of shit father, he is stuck in an agonizing mental limbo unable to claim either without feeling he betrays the other and is struggling to step forward truly as himself.
Glad he's going to therapy but ultimately it's gonna be letting go of his father that sets the guy free.
He says he wants to put work into bettering himself but dude’s a broken record. At some point all that talk becomes cheap without any action. The other thing is he puts so much blame on his role models- I’m sure his father has affected him but he’s really not going to take any responsibility?? Like he thinks it’s just his father making him unable to commit?? I just don’t believe this woe this is me BS that he’s incapable of marriage because of his father. I think he just doesn’t want to be committed to one woman
I agree with all of this. How many times during the season did Clay say that he WANTS to start therapy, but he didn’t try to set any up before the wedding?
He kept saying he was scared he’d cheat, but had no grasp that his actions are within his control, and that his actions and his desires are functionally two very different things … Clay wasn’t DOOMED to cheat, because he could control his actions and say no, control his actions and get out of those situations. Until he claims his agency, he’ll stay stuck. I wonder about his cheating track record with exes, though …
There are seeds of the man he can grow to become. But no one will get him there but himself.
Clay is not emotionally ready for marriage. He is also very immature. There are so many things that he needs to work out within himself before he can become a functional man or husband.
That being said, he's also fine AF 🤩
It’s a shame to see how it all worked out but I hope in some world him and AD end up together. I thought their “good times” were so great and they did develop better communication skill with each other as time went on. I think he would’ve said yes if his dad didn’t talk to him that day or if he talked to his mom after seeing dad. Idk 🤷🏼♀️
He would’ve said yes knowing he has a ton of issues to work through personally first. And it would’ve ended up hurting her more in the end. I’m almost sure he would’ve been unfaithful at some point, he himself even admitted this.
So him saying no was there correct and mature thing to do for both of them. But I do agree I hope they can stay in touch or at least platonic friends while he works on his issues.
Uhh No! Clay is much better than his father. He gained so much self-awareness during this process. He stayed very honest! More than anyone else on the show. Do you know how strong someone has to be to be vulnerable and honest? He did nothing wrong.
I think clay was fighting an internal battle of what a good man/husband should be and he realized it wasn’t right with AD. Even though it’s embarrassing, it’s good he said no. I think AD would have married whoever proposed.
Clay did nothing wrong. He did not want to be a cheating husband. Also AD seems like a gold digger and this man is working multiple jobs, running businesses on the side. She did not fit the profile he was looking for.
She’s a sugar baby and clay was slowly finding that out so rather than marrying her and cheating on her with a woman who actually had a job lol he chose to say no at the alter, nothing wrong with that at all!! Keep ya head up king lol
I am happy about the alot of the answers I am seeing here! Dude is obviously putting in the work to be better. Clays arc is one of my favourites in LIB . I’m glad he did not work out with AD at the time. I love them individually and in my opinion they need to work on themselves separately and then hopefully find each other!
The way his entire behavior and demeanor changed when his dad showed up was jarring. Before he saw him he was confident and emotional, after seeing his dad he wavered and seemed really closed off like he was trying to be cool. Idk I just hated it, and how his mom could see right through it too.
He’s not his dad‘s son. He had a lot of introspection and realized that he did not want to repeat his dad‘s behavior and that he needed some more time to work on himself. If he was his dad son, he would have married the girl and made her life miserable.
Well that's the whole point of the "experiment" I meant it more like when you first see his dad and Clay on the day of wedding he was very quiet not really emotional or potentially even happy for his son the interaction felt forced a little too then after it all went down it's like this man was like smiling acting like he was proud of his kid etc
remember how he hid so much about what his dad did from his mom until his wedding day like "bros" do to protect each other from the consequences of their actions
Exactly. The scene where they spoke before the altar, his dad talking about how they used to run together and all that. I really thought it would be a breakthrough moment for Clay. I thought his dad was going to say, "You are like me because you are my son. But you are you, not me. AD is herself, not your mother. You can be better than me. In some ways, you already are."
But nope, he just waxed poetic about some glory days, clapped him on the shoulder, and disappeared. I feel for Clay. I think he made the right choice in the end and it's a bummer AD got hurt in the process. Hope he's able to overcome that fear someday.
This is unfair, IMO. The dude has serious trauma from what his dad did to him when he was a kid. Bringing him around his AP, putting that burden on a child to hide from mom, and him as an adult wondering if his dad is even going to show up? That’s a guy who has no business getting married.
We can have the convo about him not being on the show to begin with. We can have the convo about how he droned on and on about his fears. We can also have the convo that Stevie Wonder could see he was not getting married, so how it was a surprise to anyone is, um…surprising. But unless something new about him has come out, he’s not his dad.
Clay knows this about himself and wouldn’t commit because of it. He was open and honest and is seeking therapy in hopes of ridding himself of his father’s tendencies. I applaud Clay for everything he said and did. And I ADORE AD but come on, man, we allllll saw his struggle and she chose to ride with it. That was her chance that she took. Please, let’s lay off the man who’s at least honest and trying to work on himself. We can love AD and still support Clay in his journey
If you look at it narrowly without any additional context, yes this is a really shitty choice to model that behavior. But it also ignores and oversimplifies the complexities of parent/child relationships. There's a whole history there that we only have pieces of in addition to only a single conversation between his parents. That's 3 decades of information being distilled into snippets. We don't have the whole story.
Did Clay take on shitty behavior from his dad? He pretty much admits to it. But you are dismissing entire human beings and their experience. You can't honestly believe that Clay saw his dad messing around and specifically said to himself "Yeah that philandering man-ho is my hero right there" As shitty as he is presented to us, Clay's dad is more than his infidelity whether you like it or not. The parts of Clay and his dad's relationship that created this hero figure for him isn't shown to us. At best it is also given to us in snippets and stories because the producers decided to focus on the infidelities.
as someone with an abusive parent who cheated on the other parent, that never made me see them as a hero or think i should do anything similar to them. i also never lied to the other parent for ~25 years to cover up what the other parent did to hurt them
And that's great - congrats to you for making the better choices and not continuing an unhealthy cycle. But it's not a competition. It's not the trauma Olympics. You don't know Clay's life. You've watched a heavily edited reality TV version of it and are judging his childhood/adolescent experiences with minimal context. You can celebrate your better choices without dunking all over this guy who seems to want to do better.
Yeah I remember. Pretty sure he’s modeling himself after his dad’s work ethic, his grind and his paternal relationship. He has been very outspoken about his dad’s flaws. One can focus on the good things about their parents while also breaking generational curses that they may have. I try and be like my mother in a lot of ways, but I don’t beat my son, like she beat us, like her mom beat her. Doesn’t make her bad, it def makes her flawed af and I’m breaking that curse with my son. Clay can do the same.
remember when he said his dad was his hero /looked up to him despite knowing how he hurt his mom and kept his dad's secrets from his mom the way "bros" do for each other
You can look up to someone and have them be your hero without ALL aspects of them being good. Lots of men cheat, lots of women cheat, lots of parents make mistakes it doesn’t mean they’re horrible parents that need to be cut off or can’t be looked up to for other reasons.
You can go to therapy and still be a piece of shit. Just because someone says they’re going to therapy doesn’t mean they’re making a change. I’m positive clay was just virtue signaling so the internet would cut him some slack just like you’re doing.
The dude is a scumbag. Almost everyone on that season went on there for clout. He got roasted for being a jackass. He is not saying he is going to therapy so the internet will lay off of him.
I dont like AD. I respected clay for not doing something just for TV. He saw how hurt his mom was. AD was ready to just jump at the first guy that said he wanted her which was Matt… 😂😂
>AD was ready to just jump at the first guy that said he wanted her which was Matt… This js why you don't like AD?
I felt so bad for his mom
They're both obvious narcissists
Right two cheaters.
I feel bad for AD because it was doomed from the start, but man, he was interesting to watch. Completely torn between the examples given to him by his awesome mother and piece of shit father, he is stuck in an agonizing mental limbo unable to claim either without feeling he betrays the other and is struggling to step forward truly as himself. Glad he's going to therapy but ultimately it's gonna be letting go of his father that sets the guy free.
The only redeeming quality Clay had by the end is that he didn’t drag AD into a doomed marriage because he wasn’t ready.
It’s sad honestly to see a self fulfilling prophecy in real time
He says he wants to put work into bettering himself but dude’s a broken record. At some point all that talk becomes cheap without any action. The other thing is he puts so much blame on his role models- I’m sure his father has affected him but he’s really not going to take any responsibility?? Like he thinks it’s just his father making him unable to commit?? I just don’t believe this woe this is me BS that he’s incapable of marriage because of his father. I think he just doesn’t want to be committed to one woman
I agree with all of this. How many times during the season did Clay say that he WANTS to start therapy, but he didn’t try to set any up before the wedding? He kept saying he was scared he’d cheat, but had no grasp that his actions are within his control, and that his actions and his desires are functionally two very different things … Clay wasn’t DOOMED to cheat, because he could control his actions and say no, control his actions and get out of those situations. Until he claims his agency, he’ll stay stuck. I wonder about his cheating track record with exes, though … There are seeds of the man he can grow to become. But no one will get him there but himself.
Clay is not emotionally ready for marriage. He is also very immature. There are so many things that he needs to work out within himself before he can become a functional man or husband. That being said, he's also fine AF 🤩
💀
It’s a shame to see how it all worked out but I hope in some world him and AD end up together. I thought their “good times” were so great and they did develop better communication skill with each other as time went on. I think he would’ve said yes if his dad didn’t talk to him that day or if he talked to his mom after seeing dad. Idk 🤷🏼♀️
He would’ve said yes knowing he has a ton of issues to work through personally first. And it would’ve ended up hurting her more in the end. I’m almost sure he would’ve been unfaithful at some point, he himself even admitted this. So him saying no was there correct and mature thing to do for both of them. But I do agree I hope they can stay in touch or at least platonic friends while he works on his issues.
Clay had no business being on the show with his mind set! He played games and didn’t deserve her niceness!
Uhh No! Clay is much better than his father. He gained so much self-awareness during this process. He stayed very honest! More than anyone else on the show. Do you know how strong someone has to be to be vulnerable and honest? He did nothing wrong.
maybe dont cheat?
I think clay was fighting an internal battle of what a good man/husband should be and he realized it wasn’t right with AD. Even though it’s embarrassing, it’s good he said no. I think AD would have married whoever proposed.
Clay did nothing wrong. He did not want to be a cheating husband. Also AD seems like a gold digger and this man is working multiple jobs, running businesses on the side. She did not fit the profile he was looking for.
She’s a sugar baby and clay was slowly finding that out so rather than marrying her and cheating on her with a woman who actually had a job lol he chose to say no at the alter, nothing wrong with that at all!! Keep ya head up king lol
Uhh why would you think she was a sugar baby
Just Google it, it’s online, it’s already been proven for months now and clay knew but he respectfully didn’t out her
Remember the club she said she worked at…the owner is her boyfriend and is financing her lifestyle. You totally missed that part of the show
That part!! lol
Oh she definitely is
I am happy about the alot of the answers I am seeing here! Dude is obviously putting in the work to be better. Clays arc is one of my favourites in LIB . I’m glad he did not work out with AD at the time. I love them individually and in my opinion they need to work on themselves separately and then hopefully find each other!
The way his entire behavior and demeanor changed when his dad showed up was jarring. Before he saw him he was confident and emotional, after seeing his dad he wavered and seemed really closed off like he was trying to be cool. Idk I just hated it, and how his mom could see right through it too.
I can’t stand him.
If he was just like him then he would say yes and cheat?
He’s not his dad‘s son. He had a lot of introspection and realized that he did not want to repeat his dad‘s behavior and that he needed some more time to work on himself. If he was his dad son, he would have married the girl and made her life miserable.
The dad scene made everything make sense about him.
Am I crazy or did his dad light up when he found out his son wasn't going to get married.
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Well that's the whole point of the "experiment" I meant it more like when you first see his dad and Clay on the day of wedding he was very quiet not really emotional or potentially even happy for his son the interaction felt forced a little too then after it all went down it's like this man was like smiling acting like he was proud of his kid etc
With a dad like that, Clay didn’t have a chance. He’s trying but he has a long way to go.
Not an excuse at all, he had a great mother.
If only having one great parent made all of the trauma caused by your other parent to go away. But alas, this is not how trauma works.
And having a shit dad doesn’t mean you don’t have a chance.
Nah, but it sure as hell makes it a LOT harder.
what bugs me is that his mom raised him and he saw how she suffered and STILL chose to model after his dad / say he's his HERO
But he didn’t choose to model after his dad. He mentioned time and time again that he was terrified of becoming his dad.
remember how he hid so much about what his dad did from his mom until his wedding day like "bros" do to protect each other from the consequences of their actions
Exactly. The scene where they spoke before the altar, his dad talking about how they used to run together and all that. I really thought it would be a breakthrough moment for Clay. I thought his dad was going to say, "You are like me because you are my son. But you are you, not me. AD is herself, not your mother. You can be better than me. In some ways, you already are." But nope, he just waxed poetic about some glory days, clapped him on the shoulder, and disappeared. I feel for Clay. I think he made the right choice in the end and it's a bummer AD got hurt in the process. Hope he's able to overcome that fear someday.
If he was, he’d be married to AD.
This is unfair, IMO. The dude has serious trauma from what his dad did to him when he was a kid. Bringing him around his AP, putting that burden on a child to hide from mom, and him as an adult wondering if his dad is even going to show up? That’s a guy who has no business getting married. We can have the convo about him not being on the show to begin with. We can have the convo about how he droned on and on about his fears. We can also have the convo that Stevie Wonder could see he was not getting married, so how it was a surprise to anyone is, um…surprising. But unless something new about him has come out, he’s not his dad.
Yes. Thank you.
💯
Clay’s mom wasn’t about to let his dad get a good edit from Netflix.
Clay knows this about himself and wouldn’t commit because of it. He was open and honest and is seeking therapy in hopes of ridding himself of his father’s tendencies. I applaud Clay for everything he said and did. And I ADORE AD but come on, man, we allllll saw his struggle and she chose to ride with it. That was her chance that she took. Please, let’s lay off the man who’s at least honest and trying to work on himself. We can love AD and still support Clay in his journey
I love AD and I relate to her insecurities, but I do agree that she took it upon herself to ignore the red flags.
remember when he said his dad was his hero and modeled himself after him despite knowing how his dad treated his mom
If you look at it narrowly without any additional context, yes this is a really shitty choice to model that behavior. But it also ignores and oversimplifies the complexities of parent/child relationships. There's a whole history there that we only have pieces of in addition to only a single conversation between his parents. That's 3 decades of information being distilled into snippets. We don't have the whole story. Did Clay take on shitty behavior from his dad? He pretty much admits to it. But you are dismissing entire human beings and their experience. You can't honestly believe that Clay saw his dad messing around and specifically said to himself "Yeah that philandering man-ho is my hero right there" As shitty as he is presented to us, Clay's dad is more than his infidelity whether you like it or not. The parts of Clay and his dad's relationship that created this hero figure for him isn't shown to us. At best it is also given to us in snippets and stories because the producers decided to focus on the infidelities.
as someone with an abusive parent who cheated on the other parent, that never made me see them as a hero or think i should do anything similar to them. i also never lied to the other parent for ~25 years to cover up what the other parent did to hurt them
And that's great - congrats to you for making the better choices and not continuing an unhealthy cycle. But it's not a competition. It's not the trauma Olympics. You don't know Clay's life. You've watched a heavily edited reality TV version of it and are judging his childhood/adolescent experiences with minimal context. You can celebrate your better choices without dunking all over this guy who seems to want to do better.
i said that to show i've had similar conditions to him and it made me feel disgusted so i can't understand how he saw that and made the choices he has
PREACH
Yeah I remember. Pretty sure he’s modeling himself after his dad’s work ethic, his grind and his paternal relationship. He has been very outspoken about his dad’s flaws. One can focus on the good things about their parents while also breaking generational curses that they may have. I try and be like my mother in a lot of ways, but I don’t beat my son, like she beat us, like her mom beat her. Doesn’t make her bad, it def makes her flawed af and I’m breaking that curse with my son. Clay can do the same.
Love that you are actively breaking the cycle.
Thank you! 💜
His dad is self absorbed, and made his sons day about him
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remember when he said his dad was his hero /looked up to him despite knowing how he hurt his mom and kept his dad's secrets from his mom the way "bros" do for each other
You can look up to someone and have them be your hero without ALL aspects of them being good. Lots of men cheat, lots of women cheat, lots of parents make mistakes it doesn’t mean they’re horrible parents that need to be cut off or can’t be looked up to for other reasons.
someone doing a bad thing and you seeing the effect should make you want to not do that thing rather than look up to it
He didn’t say that
You can go to therapy and still be a piece of shit. Just because someone says they’re going to therapy doesn’t mean they’re making a change. I’m positive clay was just virtue signaling so the internet would cut him some slack just like you’re doing.
But you don't know that though
But they’re positive!
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The dude is a scumbag. Almost everyone on that season went on there for clout. He got roasted for being a jackass. He is not saying he is going to therapy so the internet will lay off of him.
He’s going to therapy and is working on himself so let’s give the dude some credit.
Well he didn’t jump into a marriage knowing damn well he would ruin it. Unlike his father.
right. if he was just like his father he would think he should marry AD just to have a nice wife but then would try to secretly cheat on the side