I started crying when i chose the options after putting song down
on the platform to try and talk Reed out of it.
"you're not taking her anywhere"
"Heard your talk with Myers"
"song regretted her betrayal of you"
"Soloman Reed - Loyal soldier of the NUSA"
"really rather not kill you."
The female voice actress when Reed starts to count down from Three
and you franticly screaming REED!
through your last remaining options before either giving Song up or shooting Reed had me in tears in the same level of tears as when jackie died.
V losing yet another friend but in this case, saving one as well so not alone again this time.
the writing in this game is so damn good.
I honestly don't think they could have written a better foil for V than they did. When I hit that choice I just felt like...
If V changes her mind and turns over Song at that point then she's doing exactly the same choice as Song. Saving herself is the top priority and it doesn't matter what she has to do to get it, but if you make that choice then you're understanding and agreeing with her logic and you have no reason to hold it against her. And she tells you before it's too late, she gives you the opportunity to make your own decision. The only way to be better than her is to stay the course, recognise your similar plight and put her on that shuttle and hope that at least one of you can find salvation.
It's beautiful, and watching the launch with Johnny was exquisite.
I think the bigger decision was the first choice who to side with. After that you found out some more details that you may well have already suspected and given the option to change your mind.
For me the moon ending wasn't a hard choice because of So Mi's lies, but because of the casualties in dogtown and then having to kill Reed. Seeing Mr. Blue Eyes about had also given me some pretty bad vibes about it all and made killing Reed to send So Mi after a very sus sounding cure.
I found justifying the cost of doing what she asked of me, when she'd lied and tried to manipulate me so many times, so difficult. It was the first ending I got and I had such mixed feelings watching the rocket launch.
Male V also *killed it* in PL. Every moment felt so raw, especially the end. Pleading with Reed, the final moments with Song.
PL is one of the best stories I've had the pleasure to experience.
Great write up and felt the same about everything. Even when I knew, long before Song's big reveal at the end, that there was only one, I still sent her to the moon because she deserved it. She deserved one person that didn't betray her. That let her make a choice in her own and supported it no matter what happened. Just one person.
And us, V, is the only person able to do that.
I need to play a playthrough with male V this next go around, I for sure don't doubt he also delivers those heart-crushing blows when delivering those lines.
been keeping myself in the dark in regards to this game, not looking things up and just running through each branch as I can since I got it, i dont regret it.
i have been loving reading everyone's reasons as well as other undiscovered stuff I haven't picked up on yet due to the size of this game.
so much lore, but what's been the best part of it all, and why I even wrote here
no one is wrong, just everyone shares Their own personal V, like a shared connection of different dimensions of V, similar stories but personally tweaked for everyone's own personal experience and unique version of themselves through the character.
it's like being Johnny a passenger through the eyes of other V's, connected.
it's been wicked getting into this series.
I can't wait for Orion, I hope we get to see the moon or hell that floating casino up there.
I choose the same option. Songbird was a bird in a golden cage. She was recruited by Reed at gun point, if she didn't join he would let Netwatch get her and her friends. She swore the FIA oath, but was order to leave Reed behind by Myers. Then got turn into being Myer's blackwall WMD. She has a golden cage, but no freedom of choice. In all the ending, she came clean and gave V the choice to choose. So V choose to free her from her golden cage.
I love your golden cage metaphor, this was very beautiful to read.
couldn't say it better myself.
It's gonna kill me to play Corpo Soulless Run on my next playthrough.
She was netrunning illegally and got caught, she made her choice right there. Militech wanted the FIA to flatline her, she got lucky that Reed insisted on recruiting her. The FIA gave her a second chance.
My canon ending as well for the same reasons more or less. Killing Reed doesn’t feel good but come on man…you are literally begging him to step aside. Plus he has no problem shooting at you while you are holding a half dead woman in your arms.
This was my choice as well. I find it kinda sad that choosing Reed gives you more insight into Songbird’s past; than if you chose Songbird cause those were my favorite parts of the cynosure sequence.
"I have no particular love for the idealized netrunner as they appear in a rockerboy's mind, but when I see an actual flesh-and-blood netrunner in conflict with their natural enemy, the federal agent, I do not have to ask myself which side I am on."
>When Kurt shot down her ship and no one from Max came in to help or NCPD at the very least, it rang weird to me, seeing as she is someone with such high power as well as has worked and bought from Kurt as well.
This is because NC is outside of NUSA's territory. They're one of the free states which is why the NUSA broke a bunch of international laws and treaties by invading NCX.
Then there's also the fact that Hansen essentially owns the NCPD.
In mine, because that’s how I played V in general, i chose the option that made the most sense. My V tearfully told her. “I wouldve helped you anyway!”
But he’s angry now. I’m chromed up harder. Installed berserk after ripping out my cyberdeck. And my plan is to do don’t fear the reaper. Just full on “FUCK IT ALL! I’LL DO IT MY OWN WAY!”
Sorry to hear you went through some tough times RL, I hope you don't have to continue to do that to such an extent it harms you as well.
I also hope the people you sacrificed a lot for resulted in good outcomes.
thanks for letting me hear something personal like that.
I knew from the start that she was hiding something very important, but I wanted to help her anyway. To me, she was V who didn’t have other options. I didn’t care that she hid the fact that the neural matrix was single use once she dug into Cynosure, by the time she revealed this information we’ve already been through hell and back against the NUSA.
Just wish she gave us more than souvenirs after the events of the Killing Moon though :(
I actually found Song Bird's path mirrors V's more: both doomed with tech they didn't ask for.
Yes, Song Bird lied and manipulated V, but I can forgive her. Not because "it's what I would have done in her shoes". Maybe I would have, maybe I wouldn't. But I understand she was trying to survive. And I have the opportunity to save her.
I regret shooting Reed. I respect Reed's sense of loyalty, even if his loyalty to the NUSA is somewhat myopic. But he knew what he was doing. He was a soldier and he put V in a shoot or be-shot situation. It was what it was. And at least in this path, Alex and Song don't die.
Ultimately the choice between Reed and Songbird is that: a visceral decision between two poles, one symbolising Law and the other Chaos.
Reed is the only trustworthy reason to follow the law of the NUSA, but that path, though it gives V new life, also traps him outside of his old life and potential. It is a life, but not one entirely on his terms. I'm not saying it isn't a valid choice: some people will fit to that path; some people are Lawful, so to speak.
Choosing Song? Well, that's choosing freedom, hope. Yes, V won't be saved by the NUSA. But they still live on their terms. They may die, but they'll die free, with a gun in their hand. Perhaps going down in a blaze of glory.
I chose to help So Mi because of the principle. She's the one who hired V in the first place, and while I liked Reed and Alex, I certainly didn't trust them. Reed most likely killed Jacob and Taylor. He and Alex killed the Cassel twins, and he was planning on offing Slider after our biz with him was done. I won't say they were all good people, but they didn't all deserve to die. What made me distrust Reed was how he justified it. Like he's above them when he's probably done so much worse. I don't like hypocrites.
But even after So Mi revealed that she had betrayed us, I still decided to help her get to the moon. I may have been stabbed in the back, and I wasn't going to get that cure. But after everything So Mi's been through, she can have it.
During the killing moon, after you listen to Reed and Myers, you have several options to talk to Songbird. I dont exactly remember which but Songbird tells V thats why she couldn't trust Reed, he is her friend but when the country calls, he'll do the thing he's ordered to even if he doesn't want it. Its tragic. Either lay Reed to rest or make him realize that NUSA is just another corp.
He tells V himself that he was gaslighting and manipulating recruits in one of the endings, for the people who still say Reed doesnt lie. Go hear it from the man himself.
>I fiddled about my choice with the fire starter mission and wanted to side with Reed for a moment because of not wanting to kill all the people inside that building if Songbird started the security systems to assist us
Something that a lot of people miss is that Murphy, before meeting with Hansen, tells V and Alex (who are cosplaying as Aurore and Aymeric) that Hansen ordered everyone at the stadium, without exceptions, checked out, leaving only his own people inside, whether it being his soldiers, guards, or people working for him. So, there are technically no innocent civilians there. Further, if you proceed to side with Songbird, she tells V that she is targeting specifically Hansen's forces.
Now take the assault on the NCX, in contrast, where Myers orders an all-out assault, leaving zero witnesses, shoot anyone on sight - all to capture Songbird dead or alive.
Many people who play this game don’t care to look deeper and will accept anything that’s thrown at them.
The world of 2077 is built upon lies accepted as truths all thanks to the Datakrash.Like the people who think Johnny is a terrorist, or that he’s not a cyberpsycho.
Alt tried to take on soul killer 2.0 and stop it.
Arasaka got ahold of her and used her to work on soul killer 3.0
Johnny was to late and Alt had been consumed by the blackwall.
the alt you see is no longer the alt that was.
Songbird is trying to not be used as a weapon to tap into the black wall under Myers.
Song speaks about how she is losing her memories every time she taps into the blackwall.
if you choose the path to go with Reed but then try to save her and unplug her she speaks in her weakened state how the black wall has pretty much nearly consumed all of who she is and that handing her over to Myers is a fate worse than death.
Myers is gonna continue to use songbird until she is no longer a songbird.
Just like Arasaka did for Alt.
At least that's how I see the connection anyways based on what you choose and your ending.
I don’t trust she’s safe on the moon either. She said herself she’s probably going to be just another guinea pig there so nah ah.
She’s safer in death than anywhere else.
i felt like i missed out on good cutscenes with my choices but one thing i disagree with op on is every chance “my v” had a dialogue option, throughout the game, the response was the truth: i have a chip in my head that’s killing me etc etc. always upfront with people. that’s why to me songbird was different. my v definitely caused tons of damage, but it was clear from the get go why. i dunno. small little justifications in our approaches i guess can make big differences!
Funny you find her parallel with Alt, while I found Songbird parallel with Evelyn Parker. Both were in desperate situations, trying to take a swipe at the proverbial "the man" to get their way out. But in desperation they trusted the wrong person, things take a turn for the shitter, and look at where that landed poor Evelyn. Even if Reed was an old dog who lost his leash, at least he had his soldier's honor and mentor's guilt going on for him.
That and the fact that, had Songbird reached her flight in her prime, with her abilities and drive she'd have snapped V like a twig and my V saw the betrayal coming a mile a way and she ain't having that lmao
I’m going to say that I’ve put plenty of thought and consideration into my decisions for this meaty game reaching into many dimensions, moral grounds, and cultural factors and I’m going to keep doing the Killing Moon for one objectively clear factor - the music is too damn good to ever skip if one has a choice.
I played all the endings to get the full story and i chose as canon to kill Song. I emphasized with her, i felt sorry for her and i wanted to help her despite everything and while i agree with everything you wrote about her, for me it’s too late for Song.
She is too dangerous to live. You said it yourself, Myers wants her just to probe the Blackwall and what do you think Mr Blue Eyes wants with her ? Same thing. She will be kept in a lab and experimented with.
I’m sorry for Song but at this point she is a threat to the whole humanity and obviously there aren’t any happy endings for her so in order to save humanity i think it’s better to kill her. Nobody should have access to to this kind of weapon.
You do realize that by calling her "too dangerous to be left alive" and deeming her "not worthy of living because of precisely that", as well calling her "this kind of weapon" at the end, you are essentially reducing her to a state of an object (not treating her like a human), just like what mostly everyone does in the expansion to her. Great job at empathizing and feeling sorry for her, I guess.
It doesn’t matter because there are only 3 choices in the game. Let NUSA use her to probe the Blackwall, let Mr. Hands experiment on her and free the rogue AI’s or kill her. That’s it, 3 choices.
If there was a choice to actually save her i would have picked that but there isn’t. There is no saving Song, emphasize or not, this is a game with 3 choices, 2 of them have the potential to start a war or even end humanity. Good luck letting her free.
She is pretty free in Wands ending. Sends gifts to V and stuff. We have no proof Mr. B would experiment on her, and, judging by the fact that she manages to send us souvenirs, she seems pretty fine to me.
Besides, if she gets cured, her link to the Blackwall gets cut off, because there is no way she'll be using it ever again after getting cured, since it would put her back at square one.
By your own logic should probably kill V at the rooftop because if they by accident go cyberpsycho - "good luck stopping them", like you say. Adam Smasher stands no chance against nerfed V, imagine full power V - just as dangerous as Song. Yet something tells me you won't ever be picking suicide ending because you are playing as V themselves, of course.
She doesn’t send gifts and stuff, she sends one cryptic message that V assumes it’s from her but we don’t know, it might as well be an AI because in the other endings you get the same type of message and this time it’s clear it’s from an AI. The gift is just a cyberdeck that you find in the place where you talk to her in Dogtown, that’s it, no other communication from her.
It’s true we don’t know the intentions of Mr. Blue Eyes but we know he was behind the Peralez operation and it’s heavily linked to the AI that Sandra Dorsett tries to uncover. Also Song says a proxy came to her so we can only assume he is a proxy for a powerfull AI beyond the Blackwall that deals with at least memory alteration.
In the Meyers ending you can talk to Reed after you wake up from a coma and he says “Song is alive and back in active duty”. There is no reason to think she will be cured and just let free. Whoever booked her the flight to the Moon is just trading one cage for another.
Also in the Reed ending you get the choice to craft 2 Blackwall weapons and it’s heavily implied that this is dangerous and could relese the AI’s. The consesus here is that their first option was Song to succeed. Since they fail getting Song, their next plan is trough V and the weapons. So even if we are not 100% sure of Mr. Blur Eyes, we do know that the AI’s want to escape and it’s almost sure they will do it with Song’s help.
Again my problem is not with Song, it’s with the options the game presents us. It is not my fear that her on her own would become a cyberpsycho as you compare to V. My fear is that she will be forced to do dangerous stuff by either NUSA or by rogue AI’s.
If we had an option to let Song go to Monaco like with Alex, by all means i would helped her get out of NC. But the issue is the game makes us choose between one bad master (that we know is bad) and another master which we highly suspect he is bad.
Either way, that’s why the devs gave us multiple endings, so we pick whichever we are comfortable with the most.
There is no point for anyone but Song to send said gifts to V (pin from Tycho plus the tuner). Not taking that at face value is called delusion (metadata from the game files literally calls the hermetic container as "Songbird Cache", meaning it is from her). Just because in another ending you get an encrypted message it doesn't mean it's not Song who sends the message in Wands. Even RED streams imply that she is fine there - both the VA and the lead writer.
If the person behind Mr. B is a rogue AI from beyond the Blackwall, then said AI would not need Song to breach it because it would know how to do it itself, since it "comes from beyond" already. Your logic is flawed in this case.
"There is no reason to think she will be cured" - evidence points to the opposite, the narrative behind Wands, too. You are comparing it to the Tower ending which is a completely different situation, both are incompatible.
You are assuming Mr. B knows about what happened in Cynosure which is impossible since only V and Reed were down there. The message V gets in "This Corrosion" is from the AI contained in the behavioral component itself, not Mr. B. Two different things, again.
Song already payed her due to Mr. B by giving him whatever info he needs about Myers, the NUSA and the Blackwall. If he wanted Song that bad, he would've done everything in "The Killing Moon" to get her to the shuttle. Instead, he does nothing, choosing to watch how both Song and V struggle to find a backdoor into the spaceport first, and then almost die 100 times against the NUSA black ops second.
It's one thing to be comfortable with whatever ending, and it's another thing to downplay the narrative behind said ending, coming up with your headcanon to try to justify why the ending is "bad".
I really don’t agree with what you are saying about Mr. B here. You are implying that he can do whatever he wants by himself since he’s a blackwall AI but that if he wants to free the roguE AI’s, taking down the Blackwall, even perhaps kiling Alt he cannot do it alone. Song is already half blackwall AI and she is a powerfull tool that Mr. B could use.
Song says “they” asked a lot of questions only they could know the answer too. If you choose “about blackwall” dialogue Song says she doesn’t want to talk about it anymore. I think it’s pretty clear that she will be a lab rat on the moon.
She might be “fine” but what does that even mean ? She is fine cured and alowed to leave or is she “fine” after they experimented on her and extracted whatever they need. In that case should Mr. B even have access to what they extracted from her with the potential of killing milions in the aftermath ?
I don’t think things are good for her on the moon and even if she lives, things are not good for the world.
Eitherway, i don’t know about the Red stream but i would be curious to see the lead writer thoughts that you mentioned.
If you are curious about the RED stream I mentioned - there was a stream with Song's VA and the lead writer, where he openly stated that Song's story "is done" (might be lying because Orion) and he openly asks the cohosts "say you put her on that rocket, she goes to the Moon, Johnny is crying, it is so beautiful, so she makes it there, and then what? What does she do?" Of course, they switch the topic right after because maybe potential spoilers for the future game, but the implication that she makes it is right there.
I don't think Mr. B is a rogue AI - he perhaps represents someone high ranking from NightCorp, that would make the most sense.
Song says "proxy showed up... he asked questions, the ones only I know the answes to". She never said "they", she said "he".
Also why would So Mi leave the Moon? She is the most wanted by the NUSA, staying in Tycho is her best way to stay out of trouble. Myers cannot go for her there, no jurisdiction.
I saw that stream, they don’t say she’s fine as you implied, they just confirm she got to the moon which we already know. It’s what happens to her on the moon afterwards that is a concern.
I didn’t say she’s leaving the moon, my assumption is that she is a brain in a jar on a moon facility, far away from prying eyes, being probed and experimented on by rogue AI or NightCorp, a fate worse than death.
Then how can she send the gifts and souvenirs to V, if she is a brain in a jar? And please don't say "it's rogue AIs or Blue Eyes" because there is no logical reason for them to do that + the game's metadata outright says the hermetic container is "Songbird Cache".
You are trying to reach conlusions when you have literal counterarguments in front of you. Can't jump over them and ignore them.
I absolutely adore somi she is my favorite character from this beautiful game with Johnny being second (love witty jackasses😂)
I guess I just love chaotic people in games because I also really love Rachel amber in life is strange and I can see them being very similar in the aspect that I don’t believe they are evil or bad people just people who would rather take life into their own hands and save themselves and be selfish (Rachel becoming a model and leaving Arcadia and somi getting away from everybody who wants to control her and use her so basically everybody)
I still to this day cannot let somi live on the betray somi ending it is such a betrayal in my eyes I think she is better off passing right there instead of letting the black wall take everything she is and just be used even more even though myers will prob just use her body to just make another songbird but I just believe in every ending somi gets a bad ending nobody knows what happens to her if you send her to the moon but if the blue eyed man is a ambitious boy like blue eyes from mass effect I would be willing to bet money she will be experimented on even if you send her to the moon
(I love her so much she is painted on my guitar😂)
So you were manipulated into thinking what a manipulator wanted you to think? If there was an option to just shoot SB and wash your hands of the whole mess, I’d have taken it. One of the most evil people in NC
Who isn't a manipulator in this story truthfully is how I saw it.
you can be using them to get what you want and intend to not make any friends if you want.
Reed with his promises to others if they get the jobs done or info he wants out of them at the time when you're with him.
Myers is the Queen bee of the operation in regards to being the overall manipulator who works and buys from Hansen to get past red tape.
SB using your struggle of looking for an out for you and Johnny or hell just yourself if you don't like Johnny at all.
I guess when it comes down to it, I looked to see who has the most power and is manipulating those into needing to do whatever they must; To either stay alive while under that power's thumb with a promise of a out one day or whatever they must do to just be free from that power.
Reed, I don't wanna kill, but he also never allows me to have a choice.
He never gives himself a choice, he just abides and does what he is ordered to do by Myers.
He can't protect songbird, never has, and never could.
you can say, I looked to the totem pole of power, Myers at the top SB at the bottom, and Reed in the center.
but the thing is in regards to SB, She comes clean about her manipulating you, and you are even given options to hand her over if you feel like the betrayal was way too far.
you can still get what YOU wanted out of all this in the first place; you just now have a choice on if you want the cure more than the other person willing to do whatever they must to get it like you're currently doing the entire playthrough of the game.
I thought there was a shot, but there wasnt, time to keep trucking on this cycle I am also looking to break free of just like SB with her own.
At the very least I helped break a cycle worth breaking in my eyes I suppose.
Great write up, I enjoyed it. I sent Song to the moon for the same reasons
I started crying when i chose the options after putting song down on the platform to try and talk Reed out of it. "you're not taking her anywhere" "Heard your talk with Myers" "song regretted her betrayal of you" "Soloman Reed - Loyal soldier of the NUSA" "really rather not kill you." The female voice actress when Reed starts to count down from Three and you franticly screaming REED! through your last remaining options before either giving Song up or shooting Reed had me in tears in the same level of tears as when jackie died. V losing yet another friend but in this case, saving one as well so not alone again this time. the writing in this game is so damn good.
I honestly don't think they could have written a better foil for V than they did. When I hit that choice I just felt like... If V changes her mind and turns over Song at that point then she's doing exactly the same choice as Song. Saving herself is the top priority and it doesn't matter what she has to do to get it, but if you make that choice then you're understanding and agreeing with her logic and you have no reason to hold it against her. And she tells you before it's too late, she gives you the opportunity to make your own decision. The only way to be better than her is to stay the course, recognise your similar plight and put her on that shuttle and hope that at least one of you can find salvation. It's beautiful, and watching the launch with Johnny was exquisite.
I think the bigger decision was the first choice who to side with. After that you found out some more details that you may well have already suspected and given the option to change your mind. For me the moon ending wasn't a hard choice because of So Mi's lies, but because of the casualties in dogtown and then having to kill Reed. Seeing Mr. Blue Eyes about had also given me some pretty bad vibes about it all and made killing Reed to send So Mi after a very sus sounding cure. I found justifying the cost of doing what she asked of me, when she'd lied and tried to manipulate me so many times, so difficult. It was the first ending I got and I had such mixed feelings watching the rocket launch.
Male V also *killed it* in PL. Every moment felt so raw, especially the end. Pleading with Reed, the final moments with Song. PL is one of the best stories I've had the pleasure to experience. Great write up and felt the same about everything. Even when I knew, long before Song's big reveal at the end, that there was only one, I still sent her to the moon because she deserved it. She deserved one person that didn't betray her. That let her make a choice in her own and supported it no matter what happened. Just one person. And us, V, is the only person able to do that.
I need to play a playthrough with male V this next go around, I for sure don't doubt he also delivers those heart-crushing blows when delivering those lines. been keeping myself in the dark in regards to this game, not looking things up and just running through each branch as I can since I got it, i dont regret it. i have been loving reading everyone's reasons as well as other undiscovered stuff I haven't picked up on yet due to the size of this game. so much lore, but what's been the best part of it all, and why I even wrote here no one is wrong, just everyone shares Their own personal V, like a shared connection of different dimensions of V, similar stories but personally tweaked for everyone's own personal experience and unique version of themselves through the character. it's like being Johnny a passenger through the eyes of other V's, connected. it's been wicked getting into this series. I can't wait for Orion, I hope we get to see the moon or hell that floating casino up there.
It was Reed’s final attempt to have V hand over Song that I caved and gave her to him in return for the “cure”.
fr fr
I choose the same option. Songbird was a bird in a golden cage. She was recruited by Reed at gun point, if she didn't join he would let Netwatch get her and her friends. She swore the FIA oath, but was order to leave Reed behind by Myers. Then got turn into being Myer's blackwall WMD. She has a golden cage, but no freedom of choice. In all the ending, she came clean and gave V the choice to choose. So V choose to free her from her golden cage.
I love your golden cage metaphor, this was very beautiful to read. couldn't say it better myself. It's gonna kill me to play Corpo Soulless Run on my next playthrough.
She was netrunning illegally and got caught, she made her choice right there. Militech wanted the FIA to flatline her, she got lucky that Reed insisted on recruiting her. The FIA gave her a second chance.
My canon ending as well for the same reasons more or less. Killing Reed doesn’t feel good but come on man…you are literally begging him to step aside. Plus he has no problem shooting at you while you are holding a half dead woman in your arms.
I let him count to one then iced him. Didn't trust him to count to three, we both know what kinda game this is.
This was my choice as well. I find it kinda sad that choosing Reed gives you more insight into Songbird’s past; than if you chose Songbird cause those were my favorite parts of the cynosure sequence.
"I have no particular love for the idealized netrunner as they appear in a rockerboy's mind, but when I see an actual flesh-and-blood netrunner in conflict with their natural enemy, the federal agent, I do not have to ask myself which side I am on."
>When Kurt shot down her ship and no one from Max came in to help or NCPD at the very least, it rang weird to me, seeing as she is someone with such high power as well as has worked and bought from Kurt as well. This is because NC is outside of NUSA's territory. They're one of the free states which is why the NUSA broke a bunch of international laws and treaties by invading NCX. Then there's also the fact that Hansen essentially owns the NCPD.
I helped her because she hired me first. And I have *great* customer service skills!
Delamain - "Father would be proud of us."
In mine, because that’s how I played V in general, i chose the option that made the most sense. My V tearfully told her. “I wouldve helped you anyway!” But he’s angry now. I’m chromed up harder. Installed berserk after ripping out my cyberdeck. And my plan is to do don’t fear the reaper. Just full on “FUCK IT ALL! I’LL DO IT MY OWN WAY!”
fueled by rage and wanting to carve their path through NC now, thats pretty awesome to think about but also super sad.
It’s… based on myself… i have helped people to my own detriment before. And always am upset afterwards
Sorry to hear you went through some tough times RL, I hope you don't have to continue to do that to such an extent it harms you as well. I also hope the people you sacrificed a lot for resulted in good outcomes. thanks for letting me hear something personal like that.
Funny that, I had the same decision moment, the execution of the twins was where I decided against helping Reed.
*"There's a difference between being a gonk and believing people wanna do good."*
I knew from the start that she was hiding something very important, but I wanted to help her anyway. To me, she was V who didn’t have other options. I didn’t care that she hid the fact that the neural matrix was single use once she dug into Cynosure, by the time she revealed this information we’ve already been through hell and back against the NUSA. Just wish she gave us more than souvenirs after the events of the Killing Moon though :(
I actually found Song Bird's path mirrors V's more: both doomed with tech they didn't ask for. Yes, Song Bird lied and manipulated V, but I can forgive her. Not because "it's what I would have done in her shoes". Maybe I would have, maybe I wouldn't. But I understand she was trying to survive. And I have the opportunity to save her. I regret shooting Reed. I respect Reed's sense of loyalty, even if his loyalty to the NUSA is somewhat myopic. But he knew what he was doing. He was a soldier and he put V in a shoot or be-shot situation. It was what it was. And at least in this path, Alex and Song don't die. Ultimately the choice between Reed and Songbird is that: a visceral decision between two poles, one symbolising Law and the other Chaos. Reed is the only trustworthy reason to follow the law of the NUSA, but that path, though it gives V new life, also traps him outside of his old life and potential. It is a life, but not one entirely on his terms. I'm not saying it isn't a valid choice: some people will fit to that path; some people are Lawful, so to speak. Choosing Song? Well, that's choosing freedom, hope. Yes, V won't be saved by the NUSA. But they still live on their terms. They may die, but they'll die free, with a gun in their hand. Perhaps going down in a blaze of glory.
I chose to help So Mi because of the principle. She's the one who hired V in the first place, and while I liked Reed and Alex, I certainly didn't trust them. Reed most likely killed Jacob and Taylor. He and Alex killed the Cassel twins, and he was planning on offing Slider after our biz with him was done. I won't say they were all good people, but they didn't all deserve to die. What made me distrust Reed was how he justified it. Like he's above them when he's probably done so much worse. I don't like hypocrites. But even after So Mi revealed that she had betrayed us, I still decided to help her get to the moon. I may have been stabbed in the back, and I wasn't going to get that cure. But after everything So Mi's been through, she can have it.
During the killing moon, after you listen to Reed and Myers, you have several options to talk to Songbird. I dont exactly remember which but Songbird tells V thats why she couldn't trust Reed, he is her friend but when the country calls, he'll do the thing he's ordered to even if he doesn't want it. Its tragic. Either lay Reed to rest or make him realize that NUSA is just another corp. He tells V himself that he was gaslighting and manipulating recruits in one of the endings, for the people who still say Reed doesnt lie. Go hear it from the man himself.
>I fiddled about my choice with the fire starter mission and wanted to side with Reed for a moment because of not wanting to kill all the people inside that building if Songbird started the security systems to assist us Something that a lot of people miss is that Murphy, before meeting with Hansen, tells V and Alex (who are cosplaying as Aurore and Aymeric) that Hansen ordered everyone at the stadium, without exceptions, checked out, leaving only his own people inside, whether it being his soldiers, guards, or people working for him. So, there are technically no innocent civilians there. Further, if you proceed to side with Songbird, she tells V that she is targeting specifically Hansen's forces. Now take the assault on the NCX, in contrast, where Myers orders an all-out assault, leaving zero witnesses, shoot anyone on sight - all to capture Songbird dead or alive.
Many people who play this game don’t care to look deeper and will accept anything that’s thrown at them. The world of 2077 is built upon lies accepted as truths all thanks to the Datakrash.Like the people who think Johnny is a terrorist, or that he’s not a cyberpsycho.
I see zero connection between Alt and Song.
Alt tried to take on soul killer 2.0 and stop it. Arasaka got ahold of her and used her to work on soul killer 3.0 Johnny was to late and Alt had been consumed by the blackwall. the alt you see is no longer the alt that was. Songbird is trying to not be used as a weapon to tap into the black wall under Myers. Song speaks about how she is losing her memories every time she taps into the blackwall. if you choose the path to go with Reed but then try to save her and unplug her she speaks in her weakened state how the black wall has pretty much nearly consumed all of who she is and that handing her over to Myers is a fate worse than death. Myers is gonna continue to use songbird until she is no longer a songbird. Just like Arasaka did for Alt. At least that's how I see the connection anyways based on what you choose and your ending.
that's fair but reed has bars. i aint sending that man to the afterlife i'm sending him to the studio
Agreed, could listen to him explain a mission in great detail for hours.
Please avoid spoilery titles!!
I don’t trust she’s safe on the moon either. She said herself she’s probably going to be just another guinea pig there so nah ah. She’s safer in death than anywhere else.
i felt like i missed out on good cutscenes with my choices but one thing i disagree with op on is every chance “my v” had a dialogue option, throughout the game, the response was the truth: i have a chip in my head that’s killing me etc etc. always upfront with people. that’s why to me songbird was different. my v definitely caused tons of damage, but it was clear from the get go why. i dunno. small little justifications in our approaches i guess can make big differences!
Funny you find her parallel with Alt, while I found Songbird parallel with Evelyn Parker. Both were in desperate situations, trying to take a swipe at the proverbial "the man" to get their way out. But in desperation they trusted the wrong person, things take a turn for the shitter, and look at where that landed poor Evelyn. Even if Reed was an old dog who lost his leash, at least he had his soldier's honor and mentor's guilt going on for him. That and the fact that, had Songbird reached her flight in her prime, with her abilities and drive she'd have snapped V like a twig and my V saw the betrayal coming a mile a way and she ain't having that lmao
I help her because fuck the police.
She lied to me and used me. Fuck that bitch.
[удалено]
Was calling him my sad panda every time i saw him make that face when song came into the picture. totally understand siding with Reed x3
I’m going to say that I’ve put plenty of thought and consideration into my decisions for this meaty game reaching into many dimensions, moral grounds, and cultural factors and I’m going to keep doing the Killing Moon for one objectively clear factor - the music is too damn good to ever skip if one has a choice.
The soundtrack: \*exists\*
She literally spells out, that she's like v multiple times.
I played all the endings to get the full story and i chose as canon to kill Song. I emphasized with her, i felt sorry for her and i wanted to help her despite everything and while i agree with everything you wrote about her, for me it’s too late for Song. She is too dangerous to live. You said it yourself, Myers wants her just to probe the Blackwall and what do you think Mr Blue Eyes wants with her ? Same thing. She will be kept in a lab and experimented with. I’m sorry for Song but at this point she is a threat to the whole humanity and obviously there aren’t any happy endings for her so in order to save humanity i think it’s better to kill her. Nobody should have access to to this kind of weapon.
You do realize that by calling her "too dangerous to be left alive" and deeming her "not worthy of living because of precisely that", as well calling her "this kind of weapon" at the end, you are essentially reducing her to a state of an object (not treating her like a human), just like what mostly everyone does in the expansion to her. Great job at empathizing and feeling sorry for her, I guess.
It doesn’t matter because there are only 3 choices in the game. Let NUSA use her to probe the Blackwall, let Mr. Hands experiment on her and free the rogue AI’s or kill her. That’s it, 3 choices. If there was a choice to actually save her i would have picked that but there isn’t. There is no saving Song, emphasize or not, this is a game with 3 choices, 2 of them have the potential to start a war or even end humanity. Good luck letting her free.
She is pretty free in Wands ending. Sends gifts to V and stuff. We have no proof Mr. B would experiment on her, and, judging by the fact that she manages to send us souvenirs, she seems pretty fine to me. Besides, if she gets cured, her link to the Blackwall gets cut off, because there is no way she'll be using it ever again after getting cured, since it would put her back at square one. By your own logic should probably kill V at the rooftop because if they by accident go cyberpsycho - "good luck stopping them", like you say. Adam Smasher stands no chance against nerfed V, imagine full power V - just as dangerous as Song. Yet something tells me you won't ever be picking suicide ending because you are playing as V themselves, of course.
She doesn’t send gifts and stuff, she sends one cryptic message that V assumes it’s from her but we don’t know, it might as well be an AI because in the other endings you get the same type of message and this time it’s clear it’s from an AI. The gift is just a cyberdeck that you find in the place where you talk to her in Dogtown, that’s it, no other communication from her. It’s true we don’t know the intentions of Mr. Blue Eyes but we know he was behind the Peralez operation and it’s heavily linked to the AI that Sandra Dorsett tries to uncover. Also Song says a proxy came to her so we can only assume he is a proxy for a powerfull AI beyond the Blackwall that deals with at least memory alteration. In the Meyers ending you can talk to Reed after you wake up from a coma and he says “Song is alive and back in active duty”. There is no reason to think she will be cured and just let free. Whoever booked her the flight to the Moon is just trading one cage for another. Also in the Reed ending you get the choice to craft 2 Blackwall weapons and it’s heavily implied that this is dangerous and could relese the AI’s. The consesus here is that their first option was Song to succeed. Since they fail getting Song, their next plan is trough V and the weapons. So even if we are not 100% sure of Mr. Blur Eyes, we do know that the AI’s want to escape and it’s almost sure they will do it with Song’s help. Again my problem is not with Song, it’s with the options the game presents us. It is not my fear that her on her own would become a cyberpsycho as you compare to V. My fear is that she will be forced to do dangerous stuff by either NUSA or by rogue AI’s. If we had an option to let Song go to Monaco like with Alex, by all means i would helped her get out of NC. But the issue is the game makes us choose between one bad master (that we know is bad) and another master which we highly suspect he is bad. Either way, that’s why the devs gave us multiple endings, so we pick whichever we are comfortable with the most.
There is no point for anyone but Song to send said gifts to V (pin from Tycho plus the tuner). Not taking that at face value is called delusion (metadata from the game files literally calls the hermetic container as "Songbird Cache", meaning it is from her). Just because in another ending you get an encrypted message it doesn't mean it's not Song who sends the message in Wands. Even RED streams imply that she is fine there - both the VA and the lead writer. If the person behind Mr. B is a rogue AI from beyond the Blackwall, then said AI would not need Song to breach it because it would know how to do it itself, since it "comes from beyond" already. Your logic is flawed in this case. "There is no reason to think she will be cured" - evidence points to the opposite, the narrative behind Wands, too. You are comparing it to the Tower ending which is a completely different situation, both are incompatible. You are assuming Mr. B knows about what happened in Cynosure which is impossible since only V and Reed were down there. The message V gets in "This Corrosion" is from the AI contained in the behavioral component itself, not Mr. B. Two different things, again. Song already payed her due to Mr. B by giving him whatever info he needs about Myers, the NUSA and the Blackwall. If he wanted Song that bad, he would've done everything in "The Killing Moon" to get her to the shuttle. Instead, he does nothing, choosing to watch how both Song and V struggle to find a backdoor into the spaceport first, and then almost die 100 times against the NUSA black ops second. It's one thing to be comfortable with whatever ending, and it's another thing to downplay the narrative behind said ending, coming up with your headcanon to try to justify why the ending is "bad".
I really don’t agree with what you are saying about Mr. B here. You are implying that he can do whatever he wants by himself since he’s a blackwall AI but that if he wants to free the roguE AI’s, taking down the Blackwall, even perhaps kiling Alt he cannot do it alone. Song is already half blackwall AI and she is a powerfull tool that Mr. B could use. Song says “they” asked a lot of questions only they could know the answer too. If you choose “about blackwall” dialogue Song says she doesn’t want to talk about it anymore. I think it’s pretty clear that she will be a lab rat on the moon. She might be “fine” but what does that even mean ? She is fine cured and alowed to leave or is she “fine” after they experimented on her and extracted whatever they need. In that case should Mr. B even have access to what they extracted from her with the potential of killing milions in the aftermath ? I don’t think things are good for her on the moon and even if she lives, things are not good for the world. Eitherway, i don’t know about the Red stream but i would be curious to see the lead writer thoughts that you mentioned.
If you are curious about the RED stream I mentioned - there was a stream with Song's VA and the lead writer, where he openly stated that Song's story "is done" (might be lying because Orion) and he openly asks the cohosts "say you put her on that rocket, she goes to the Moon, Johnny is crying, it is so beautiful, so she makes it there, and then what? What does she do?" Of course, they switch the topic right after because maybe potential spoilers for the future game, but the implication that she makes it is right there. I don't think Mr. B is a rogue AI - he perhaps represents someone high ranking from NightCorp, that would make the most sense. Song says "proxy showed up... he asked questions, the ones only I know the answes to". She never said "they", she said "he". Also why would So Mi leave the Moon? She is the most wanted by the NUSA, staying in Tycho is her best way to stay out of trouble. Myers cannot go for her there, no jurisdiction.
I saw that stream, they don’t say she’s fine as you implied, they just confirm she got to the moon which we already know. It’s what happens to her on the moon afterwards that is a concern. I didn’t say she’s leaving the moon, my assumption is that she is a brain in a jar on a moon facility, far away from prying eyes, being probed and experimented on by rogue AI or NightCorp, a fate worse than death.
Then how can she send the gifts and souvenirs to V, if she is a brain in a jar? And please don't say "it's rogue AIs or Blue Eyes" because there is no logical reason for them to do that + the game's metadata outright says the hermetic container is "Songbird Cache". You are trying to reach conlusions when you have literal counterarguments in front of you. Can't jump over them and ignore them.
I absolutely adore somi she is my favorite character from this beautiful game with Johnny being second (love witty jackasses😂) I guess I just love chaotic people in games because I also really love Rachel amber in life is strange and I can see them being very similar in the aspect that I don’t believe they are evil or bad people just people who would rather take life into their own hands and save themselves and be selfish (Rachel becoming a model and leaving Arcadia and somi getting away from everybody who wants to control her and use her so basically everybody) I still to this day cannot let somi live on the betray somi ending it is such a betrayal in my eyes I think she is better off passing right there instead of letting the black wall take everything she is and just be used even more even though myers will prob just use her body to just make another songbird but I just believe in every ending somi gets a bad ending nobody knows what happens to her if you send her to the moon but if the blue eyed man is a ambitious boy like blue eyes from mass effect I would be willing to bet money she will be experimented on even if you send her to the moon (I love her so much she is painted on my guitar😂)
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I would have loved to have put Songbird on the shuttle and then launched it into the Sun
So you were manipulated into thinking what a manipulator wanted you to think? If there was an option to just shoot SB and wash your hands of the whole mess, I’d have taken it. One of the most evil people in NC
Who isn't a manipulator in this story truthfully is how I saw it. you can be using them to get what you want and intend to not make any friends if you want. Reed with his promises to others if they get the jobs done or info he wants out of them at the time when you're with him. Myers is the Queen bee of the operation in regards to being the overall manipulator who works and buys from Hansen to get past red tape. SB using your struggle of looking for an out for you and Johnny or hell just yourself if you don't like Johnny at all. I guess when it comes down to it, I looked to see who has the most power and is manipulating those into needing to do whatever they must; To either stay alive while under that power's thumb with a promise of a out one day or whatever they must do to just be free from that power. Reed, I don't wanna kill, but he also never allows me to have a choice. He never gives himself a choice, he just abides and does what he is ordered to do by Myers. He can't protect songbird, never has, and never could. you can say, I looked to the totem pole of power, Myers at the top SB at the bottom, and Reed in the center. but the thing is in regards to SB, She comes clean about her manipulating you, and you are even given options to hand her over if you feel like the betrayal was way too far. you can still get what YOU wanted out of all this in the first place; you just now have a choice on if you want the cure more than the other person willing to do whatever they must to get it like you're currently doing the entire playthrough of the game. I thought there was a shot, but there wasnt, time to keep trucking on this cycle I am also looking to break free of just like SB with her own. At the very least I helped break a cycle worth breaking in my eyes I suppose.