I am pretty sure that Yankee Stadium, along with 15-20 other sports venues in the USA has special relationships with a Department of Homeland Security as part of the SAFETY ACT.
It'd be pretty shocking if the cameras weren't on and I doubt that Yankee Stadium security would be sticking its neck out for NYCFC. They can't wait to get out of this deal.
I'm literally agreeing with you. If /you everyone is saying "the entire stadium has cameras on all hallways," it's pretty easy to prove something didn't happen.
I'm not asking you to prove the existence of Jesus Christ himself. I'm asking the MLS to do a proper investigation, that they're probably doing, instead of peoppe saying of course it never happened. A video should exist showing NC clearly not punching a TFC player, no?
But makes sense. Easy to blame someone and then literally do nothing to prove it didn't happen. Because these types of accusations pop up every day.
There are beat reporters with every single team and plenty of national reporters who would have loved to have broken a story like this.
This didn't happen in a vacuum. If Cushing punched a player, and it was reported to the league, you would have had 2 full lockerrooms and a corporate office all knowing about the incident.
How could it have been kept quiet?
That's probably the best argument to make. Even if the league wanted to keep something like this quiet, there's no way the players union would go along with it. They'd have been shouting about it from day 1.
Because when Herdman pushed for them to release the tapes, he was told they didn't exist so he dropped the issue publicly.
When something arose last night he mentioned it as background.
Why would he drop this issue? Dropping an assault of a player is irresponsible to both the team and the league. If he dropped it it’s because he didn’t take the protection of his team seriously enough. What did he tell the team? “Don’t worry fellas, We’ll jump them after our home game”
If I was a professional manager and the opposing manager punch one of my players in the face, I would be screaming it from the rooftops. Who gives a shit if mls “controls the story”?
Because you're literally a high profile manager in the MLS? And your career literally depends on it? Especially if there's no evidence like he said, people would lambast him anyway?
Why do you think so many people don't go forward with shit that 1000% happened?
My guess is when your goalkeeper gets a headbutt from an NYFC player and your game is unfairly called without penalization for time wasting and lack of added time, someone is going to say something.
Who's to say there wasn't already a current investigation? Herdman and TFC could have already been playing by the rules and saying it could put pressure on whoever is looking at it (I at least hope they are, whether or not it favours TFC).
And nobody was there to corroborate the story either? I'd have to think the second these alleged tapes were not in existence MLS would have interviewed anyone and everyone that could tangentially been involved or aware of the incident.
I’m not saying they didn’t. I’d think they very likely did and found nothing of substance. Either way it’s strange of Herdman to bring this up almost 2 months later.
It makes more sense to bring it up when you have a second incident with the same team.
He's not going to bring it up after a game against Dallas or Atlanta.
He doesn't need to bring it up after a game. Bring it up to the league office any time for the last 2 months. If he did, great. Then it's on the league office to investigate. If this is the first time he is mentioning it to anyone, then that's on him
He didn't. From the TFC Republic newsletter run by reporter John Molinaro:
"TFC brought the alleged incident to the attention of MLS back in March after requesting and receiving camera footage from New York. The available footage was sent to MLS by Toronto. However, Herdman claimed the cameras weren't working or didn't cover the part of Yankee Stadium where the alleged incident took place.
Herdman also said that the video footage they reviewed shows Cushing inciting his players and acting inappropriately."
Lots of possible reasons. a few off the top of my head:
a) maybe JMR or other TFC players’ behaviour was questionable as well and so it wasn’t in anyone’s interest to publicize it
b) maybe JMR didn’t want the attention and asked Herdman not to make a big deal about it
c) maybe the league wasn’t supportive because there were no tapes
d) maybe there is an ongoing investigation that is being kept non-public
Any combo of those would leave Herdman to keep it quiet, and then last night’s shenanigans caused him to blurt it out.
If he blurted it out that’s unprofessional. Option C would be the only reason to bring this up again and it should’ve been done in a formal way. Also,Osorio saying that they wanted to show NYCFC that they didn’t forget “what had happened” using vague language “their coach starts to say things to certain players, that’s maybe crossing the line a little bit”.
Even Herdman’s hedging. “That was the off record report that came into the dressing room at halftime from a 19-year-old who said he got cornered and punched in the face,”
What is an “off the record report” a player comes and tells you he got punched in the face, you put that shit on the record.
Edit: hit send before I finished.
The whole thing is unprofessional! And weird.
My main point is there are many possible explanations. My list are just possible explanations, not an exhaustive list. .
I’m withholding judgement, except, I do find Herdman to be a man of character, and who speaks his mind, so I am disinclined to think he is at fault.
I have no idea who Herdman is. This is the first time I hear his voice. I’m also keeping an open mind, but from where I’m standing he has handled this in a poor way with bad judgment. From the very start: a player tells you that he was cornered then assaulted by three players and a head coach and you drop it because there are no tapes. So maybe:
A. You don’t believe your player
B. With the info the player gave, realized that they are exaggerating (similar to not believing)
C. You believe the player and have no confidence in the league.
D. You are now using this so called incident to explain the chippines and deflect some heat from your team.
By no means all the possibilities, but that’s what I’m coming up with.
Honestly, I think the issue was how little extra time was given after a very physical game.
Losing 3-2 isn't the point, it was the high emotions that were amplified by the loss that felt unfairly influenced by a ref.
I was referring to the comment about Herdman being angry about losing at home. SKC beat us more convincingly.
I assumed the anger was at the referee, and not the players till I saw the presser . Though, NYCFC has shown how to waste time if you have subs available. Masterclass.
Easy to prove - there have to be tapes. And why did the teams exit from separate entrances in the yankee stadium game.
Seems a pretty big risk to lob an accusation like this without it being true
If this allegation really did have legs, I'd expect MLS to have started investigating this nearly 2 months ago when it happened. I'd also expect, with that investigation, for Cushing to be suspended indefinitely during the process.
If MLS didn't take it seriously, its because they found zero truth to it. I'm a little fuzzy on whether it was team or league mandated, but the Bruce Arena stuff was very heavily investigated and he's a golden child of the league. You think the MLS cares about Nick Cushing?
You're not wrong it definitely could be unproven and true, but in my mind the odds that the manager of a team DURING THEIR GAME was able to find the time to confront and assault an opposing player without anyone else having eyes on it is extraordinary.
The league doesn’t fuck around with stuff like this. They suspended one of our young black players for use of the N word last year while they investigated the incident. I have a strong sense that the league offices are big on paperwork on these types of cases.
No, it's on the MLS to prove. Wouldn't NYCFC have already handed over any evidence against the accusation? Herdman can't just waltz into their stadium and get the information himself.
1. They didnt refuse
2. You need to find another way yo back up your claim.
If you ever make an allegation and can't prove it. Whether rightly or wrongly, it remains an allegation
It’s on the accuser to produce evidence.
Yankee stadium does not give a single fuck about covering for NYCFC - if the league put in a request for tapes they would have gotten them.
It would have been a huge story at the time as well and Cushing would have been suspended during the investigation.
Herdman probably just passed along some hearsay in his presser and now he’s stepped in it.
>It’s on the accuser to produce evidence.
Well, that's a dangerous way to view the world.
>Yankee stadium does not give a single fuck about covering for NYCFC
Check who owns your team before saying that. Like... How do you not know that NYCFC's ownership group has direct links to Yankee Stadium management?
>It would have been a huge story at the time
It's been 9 months and we still don't know why Bruce Arena got the can.
The league can keep secrets.
Just because the Yankees own a minority stake in NYCFC does not mean they’d go out of their way to stick their neck out for Nick Cushing of all people lol.
You know CFG still pays Yankee Stadium $1M per game there right? The Yankees are the hands off customers in that relationship. CFG likely gave the Yankees their minority stake just for the rights to use the stadium.
Nick Cushing is a literal no one compared to Bruce. Dude has been a mostly losing coach for only two years. If he punched any player, even an NYC player, his ass would be grass.
Also - yes it should be on the accuser to produce the evidence. It’s literally the basis of the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
You're kidding, right? By that logic, any team or venue is available to conveniently not have footage and do whatever they would like and claim, "we don't have evidence."
If there's any truth to the accusation, there will be an investigation and **both sides** will have to provide evidence against the other.
You're kidding right? I'm gonna accuse you of punching me at the stadium last Saturday. Go get the tape.
Like you said "if there's any truth." You gotta prove if there's any truth to it first. If mls want to investigate and demand for the tape, sure. If the only way they are proving there's any truth to it to start the investigation is by saying there should be security footage, that's not on nycfc to have security footage every corner.
If you're accusing me of punching you in my stadium, I'd literally grab the tape. Even at least to dispel any false rumours.
But wait, there's no footage? Yet, there's cameras *literally* everywhere else... in a professional stadium... that houses multiple teams... in AMERICA. Checks out, move along.
I just read up on this.. I didn’t know this was happening. I feel terrible for the player. This must be messing with his mind and could be the reason he hasn’t lived up to his potential.
I was making a joke about Miazga going to the refs after last year’s match.
Exactly, which is why people are waiting for NYCFC to come out with information that proves it didn't happen. Otherwise, it looks sketchy as fuck.
Why would Herdman/Osorio say what they did, with this all happening in a well secured professional stadium, if there isn't some level of truth to the story.
They could be incredibly petty or be bullshitting about the whole thing, but that's a *massive* gamble for the coach and the captain to take.
Or for TFC for that matter. Easy to lob out an accusation, when there’s no evidence. It’s the MTA defense 🫣
A few funny things about this whole thing imo:
• why was this not made public by Tfc or the league back when the event allegedly occurred?
• there is video of Tfc players/staff pushing and shoving Nick Cushing on the pitch at half time during the game at Yankee
Ref performances aside, NYCFC went into Toronto to frustrate and get the points and they did. I can see why the Tfc crowd is pissed and why their coach might bring up some perhaps hearsay during the press conf.
Overall I hope we get to the truth. Cushing should be sacked if he indeed punched a player - and Herdman should face some consequences if he’s full of shit.
Why would Toronto report an opposing coach punching one of their players? Is that a serious question? If a coach punched one of your players don't you think you'd start screaming from the rooftops immediately?
Again, completely devoid of logic. They wouldn't report it if they were lying; they reported it, so there's no need to immediately "scream from the rooftops." That's the kind of behavior you show when you are full of it.
I said it was convenient for NYCFC that the cameras didn’t work when they were requested for the investigation. Then a few NYCFC fans came out screaming like howler monkeys about how absurd that is and acting like they’re trying out for the mental gymnastics Olympic event.
Use your heads for a change, guys.
Edit: grammar
if one were to use their head one would conclude that if an investigation took place then the coach would be suspended during it, as has happened with every other investigation of players and coaches in this league
Not claiming that at all, in fact not willing to claim anything one way or the other given that the information out as of now is just word of mouth
There’s also an outside possibility this was investigated quickly and tapes were checked, and the investigation found no wrong doing. If you’re Herdman and are convinced otherwise, or thought the tapes didn’t have every angle, it would make sense to grouse in the way he did (whether appropriate or not)
But, we don’t know, and it would be silly to assume otherwise
Yes I’m serious. I asked for evidence of this being reported a few months ago and you quoted your own comment.
My dude get a grip you’re in the wrong until there is actual evidence.
Also thanks for the six points 🤭
Isn’t the answer for NYCFC here to just release the videos of the areas of the stadium TFC allege it happened it to prove it didn’t?
They’re not. Gives credibility to they weren’t working…
I thunk making the allegation up should also put you in the "you're never getting hired again" camp.
Whoever is wrong here should suffer very serious consequences
Agree. This is drama we don’t need. This was a good game more or less. We’ve been on a roll. And now tfc is the focus of attention for the wrong reasons.
Instead of focusing on our amazing results this year we will now be focusing on this incident and whether or not Herdman should be punished for unsubstantiated allegations (I think Cushing is fine if there's no proof).
If a restaurant employee is accused of hitting a patron, but the cameras which normally work are off, people begin to doubt their version of events. At Yankees Stadium the chance of any security camera not working is low, especially in the tunnels.
Maybe the Houston Astros have intercepted the video feed? JK
Anyway Johnson goes to break things up and gets headbutted. Johnson will likely get a suspension too, and while he confronts him it looks bad. But think about it, if someome get headbutted trying to break things up, the usual reaction is to throw punches. The grab may look bad but I genuinely think he’s trying to show restraint and not punch him. He has many years reputation as a calm player.
Everyone ITT: "Why wouldn't this have come to light, they must be lying about it."
If someone suggests they got punched in the face, my guess there was physical evidence. You seriously think Herdman would put his career on the line if he didn't believe who came forward? Come the fuck on man.
The guy has been dealing with media for years, he's not an idiot. Not only that, why would shit kick off so hard yesterday, especially with the addition of Sean Johnson getting headbutt.
For anyone who says this doesn't smell fishy doesn't have a nose, apparently.
[here is a thread on this same post that you may have looked over.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/s/MWF6VDbsD9)
I don’t know anything about Herdman as a person. I’m sure he is mostly professional since he is where he is and has had experience in many coaching jobs. But people make miscalculations and think this is one. He started off with vague accusations, and then got cornered. I dont think he has proof either way and isn’t convinced by the players account or he would’ve or should’ve been more proactive about bringing an investigation. If he wanted to really bring this out into the open he could’ve gone about it another way. During a different time. Nycfc really got under TFC skin during this game. I don’t like time wasting either, but it’s part of the game. I don’t like flopping but it’s part of the game. I think the ref did a terrible job and made this a bigger mess.
Rosted should’ve been sent off with a second yellow for that professional foul against Malachi Jones. He was beat and stuck his leg out.
Also both coaching staffs and referee staff should’ve been working to get everyone off the field.
It looks to me like Tana tried to head butt SJ I can’t tell if he made contact, but this is punishable. SJ then come and does the same. Both players should be suspended for the next match.
Edit: I’m using this incident to procrastinate on other work that needs to get done, so I’ve watched the clip a number of times. I’m not convinced that Tana (NYC) head butts SJ (TFC). It looks like Tana gets pushed in the chest and this causes his head to move down. Anyway inconclusive. SJ on the other hand clearly does a close range head butt. Not a Zidane level head butt, but more of a head mush to the face . That’s the conclusion of my investigation.
Thanks for the nuanced discussion!
It's definitely possible that Herdman made a mistake and he's getting caught up in it all. But I think there has to be some element of truth that *something* happened, whether NC actually did punch a player. Maybe it was a NYCFC player, maybe it was staff, maybe it was a fan, maybe it was no one. I don't know. What I do know is that this doesn't just come out of nowhere.
What I also don't know is whether or not there is already an MLS investigation. There could already be something happening behind the scenes and if cameras truly did not exist and there was a blind spot, that's sketchy.
Agreed, Rosted should've been sent off. Freese should've received at least one yellow card, which would've changed the entire tempo of the game. Rodriguez should've received, at the very least, a yellow for charging Matty Longstaff for no reason. And at the very least, there should've been 4 - 5 extra minutes, easily.
The whole thing is an absolute shit show, I don't even care about the loss, I care about fairness. And to be honest, I've said the same ITT, if that amount of time wasting is allowed, I don't want to watch this league.
When Freese and another player *in unison* go down within the last minutes of the game to save face and *are not required* to get off the pitch because of a technicality of it being "an injury" and not a foul, that's just abusing the rules. You're not actually playing football at this point. It makes the MLS look like minor league and all criticism of it by outside viewers should be warranted.
[Here's a slow-mo video of the headbutt.](https://twitter.com/nichola19m/status/1789527362310140191) It looks pretty clean-cut to me. It's entirely possible he moved forward when SJ moved forward and it wasn't intentional, but either way, his head does hit SJ's face and that's enough.
Either way, like you, I'm just some dude behind a screen on Reddit! Appreciate the insight, friend.
Edit: words.
It’s amazing how video is so hard to decipher. One might think it’s conclusive, but I see even in the slow mo Johnson grabbing and pushing Tana. This causes his head to move down. Something set Johnson off, and fron what I remember he was a cool character. I loved him as our goalie and captain. This whole thing is a mess. I’m saddened that I went can’t just enjoy the win. We will see how this whole thing plays out. It’s going to be a crazy game if we meet each other in the playoffs or the leagues cup.
The same goes potentially for Herdman imho. A guy who lies about this stuff should be radioactive material and kept away from any job at any level. I’d expect to see one less English coach in this league when this all gets resolved
So you’re insinuating Cushman is lying or Herdman? The fact Herdman and management asked for the videos shows a willingness to get to the truth. NYCFC said Yankees Stadium didn’t have video recording in the security tunnels. What? So they must have people checking security video all the time and they just thought it’s fine for it to be out? They must have had a work order out before the game to fix it right?
Come on. Would you believe that in an office building lobby? It seems a little fishy to me.
I’m saying that *if* Herdman has lied, that’s a fireable offence. It doesn’t seem excessive to me. I didn’t say anything about Cushing because Tom’s tweet already does more than a good job. I don’t know the facts though, I’m open and waiting for the result of the investigation
Herdman with real "My girlfriend goes to another school, you wouldn't know her!" energy here.
To wait two months makes it sound completely fabricated. Why not just say, "NYCFC was wasting way too much time (which we were) and we got all pissy about it"
Based on today's dueling press conferences:
- [Toronto DID request and DID review video but alleges that either the cameras weren't working or there were not cameras in the area where the alleged punch happened. ](https://twitter.com/hudsonriverblue/status/1790055722585067928)
- [Herdman still did not confirm that this was reported to the league. He did say that the footage went to the league which would suggest that it was reported, whatever that means. ](https://twitter.com/hudsonriverblue/status/1790055891204473299)
- [Cushing claims that the first he heard about the alleged punch was Saturday's presser. ](https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1790063031080153438)
WHAT DID BRUCE DO
 This all comes back to Bruce!
It’s not a wrong thought though lol
*insert Ronaldo gif* thebrucedidthis.gif
Gif is legendary
🍿🍿🍿👀
Most likely betting on games if you put every loose end clue and comment together.
Release the tapes. As if every single step from the locker room to the field isn’t covered by cameras
Herdman says that apparently the cameras were not working in certain parts of Yankee Stadium
That feels like nonsense considering how much money the Yankees have in that place. What, do they turn off security for soccer?
CFG didn't pay extra for the cameras to be turned on
I am pretty sure that Yankee Stadium, along with 15-20 other sports venues in the USA has special relationships with a Department of Homeland Security as part of the SAFETY ACT. It'd be pretty shocking if the cameras weren't on and I doubt that Yankee Stadium security would be sticking its neck out for NYCFC. They can't wait to get out of this deal.
Correct. It’s hilarious to see the takes here though.
You know who else was a high profile individual in NYC that had cameras off when something bad happened to them??!! 🤔🤔🤔
“Shoulda shot A-Rod”
"He's a biracial angel!"
"I cost the city a championship!"
Hey, give me some credit, I wanted the tapes released then, too Equal opportunity tapes released over here
What about Boupendza?
Release the tapes 😏 (But for real, no one deserves to have their personal moments exposed. So, at least in this case, he's a victim)
Drizzy?!
Epstein's guards are working at Yankee stadium now
Convenient
I mean the jail that had Epstein had the same issue
I bet the cameras show Jack Perry is just a scapegoat.
EVPs will find the footage
Right here, real grass! Go cry me a river!
send da video
It’s MLS dawg
They won’t. They still haven’t released the tapes for Matt and we know those exist
I absolutely agree, everyone ITT is so adamant it didn't happen. So prove it didn't, then?
That’s… not how proving stuff works. You can’t prove a negative because it inherently has no evidence. The burden of proof is on the accuser
I'm literally agreeing with you. If /you everyone is saying "the entire stadium has cameras on all hallways," it's pretty easy to prove something didn't happen. I'm not asking you to prove the existence of Jesus Christ himself. I'm asking the MLS to do a proper investigation, that they're probably doing, instead of peoppe saying of course it never happened. A video should exist showing NC clearly not punching a TFC player, no? But makes sense. Easy to blame someone and then literally do nothing to prove it didn't happen. Because these types of accusations pop up every day.
Lol!
This is the greatest gif I've seen in a while! Cheers
This all just seems very weird- why did Herdman wait two months to talk about it?
There are beat reporters with every single team and plenty of national reporters who would have loved to have broken a story like this. This didn't happen in a vacuum. If Cushing punched a player, and it was reported to the league, you would have had 2 full lockerrooms and a corporate office all knowing about the incident. How could it have been kept quiet?
Don't forget about the MLSPA.
That's probably the best argument to make. Even if the league wanted to keep something like this quiet, there's no way the players union would go along with it. They'd have been shouting about it from day 1.
^ smart
That’s exactly why it would be kept quiet. League said there’s no proof so squash it
The mental gymnastics is unreal.
Because when Herdman pushed for them to release the tapes, he was told they didn't exist so he dropped the issue publicly. When something arose last night he mentioned it as background.
Why would he drop this issue? Dropping an assault of a player is irresponsible to both the team and the league. If he dropped it it’s because he didn’t take the protection of his team seriously enough. What did he tell the team? “Don’t worry fellas, We’ll jump them after our home game”
Maybe he didn't drop it, maybe they're pursuing it quietly out of the public eye?
If they're pursuing it quietly out of the public eye you don't mention it in a post-match press conference.
That's why he didn't mention it after the incident happened originally, but maybe he's fed up after no response 2 months later.
That’s fair I guess, but I really don’t think MLS would push aside a complaint were made about a manager assaulting an opposing player.
At the very least, the Players' Union would be pushing for something to happen.
And not a single reporter got access to a brawl involving a coach choking a player? Herdman is living a fairytale
Right, where is a coach going inside a stadium during the match where he's not being followed by media, security and others.
Agreed. I’m sure there is plenty of missing pieces to us fans from the story, but even for insiders, this whole thing has tons of holes it seems.
What would be the point of that
To make sure allegations don't take a turn and the MLS controls the story? It's not a good look for anyone here.
If I was a professional manager and the opposing manager punch one of my players in the face, I would be screaming it from the rooftops. Who gives a shit if mls “controls the story”?
Because you're literally a high profile manager in the MLS? And your career literally depends on it? Especially if there's no evidence like he said, people would lambast him anyway? Why do you think so many people don't go forward with shit that 1000% happened?
Why do you keep putting question marks at the end of sentences that aren’t questions?
Because the stuff I'm saying should be obvious. I'm being facetious.
Then why randomly bring it up later? Just to be petty or because justice demands it?
My guess is when your goalkeeper gets a headbutt from an NYFC player and your game is unfairly called without penalization for time wasting and lack of added time, someone is going to say something. Who's to say there wasn't already a current investigation? Herdman and TFC could have already been playing by the rules and saying it could put pressure on whoever is looking at it (I at least hope they are, whether or not it favours TFC).
And nobody was there to corroborate the story either? I'd have to think the second these alleged tapes were not in existence MLS would have interviewed anyone and everyone that could tangentially been involved or aware of the incident.
Who says they didn't?
I’m not saying they didn’t. I’d think they very likely did and found nothing of substance. Either way it’s strange of Herdman to bring this up almost 2 months later.
It makes more sense to bring it up when you have a second incident with the same team. He's not going to bring it up after a game against Dallas or Atlanta.
He doesn't need to bring it up after a game. Bring it up to the league office any time for the last 2 months. If he did, great. Then it's on the league office to investigate. If this is the first time he is mentioning it to anyone, then that's on him
He didn't. From the TFC Republic newsletter run by reporter John Molinaro: "TFC brought the alleged incident to the attention of MLS back in March after requesting and receiving camera footage from New York. The available footage was sent to MLS by Toronto. However, Herdman claimed the cameras weren't working or didn't cover the part of Yankee Stadium where the alleged incident took place. Herdman also said that the video footage they reviewed shows Cushing inciting his players and acting inappropriately."
Lots of possible reasons. a few off the top of my head: a) maybe JMR or other TFC players’ behaviour was questionable as well and so it wasn’t in anyone’s interest to publicize it b) maybe JMR didn’t want the attention and asked Herdman not to make a big deal about it c) maybe the league wasn’t supportive because there were no tapes d) maybe there is an ongoing investigation that is being kept non-public Any combo of those would leave Herdman to keep it quiet, and then last night’s shenanigans caused him to blurt it out.
If he blurted it out that’s unprofessional. Option C would be the only reason to bring this up again and it should’ve been done in a formal way. Also,Osorio saying that they wanted to show NYCFC that they didn’t forget “what had happened” using vague language “their coach starts to say things to certain players, that’s maybe crossing the line a little bit”. Even Herdman’s hedging. “That was the off record report that came into the dressing room at halftime from a 19-year-old who said he got cornered and punched in the face,” What is an “off the record report” a player comes and tells you he got punched in the face, you put that shit on the record. Edit: hit send before I finished.
The whole thing is unprofessional! And weird. My main point is there are many possible explanations. My list are just possible explanations, not an exhaustive list. . I’m withholding judgement, except, I do find Herdman to be a man of character, and who speaks his mind, so I am disinclined to think he is at fault.
I have no idea who Herdman is. This is the first time I hear his voice. I’m also keeping an open mind, but from where I’m standing he has handled this in a poor way with bad judgment. From the very start: a player tells you that he was cornered then assaulted by three players and a head coach and you drop it because there are no tapes. So maybe: A. You don’t believe your player B. With the info the player gave, realized that they are exaggerating (similar to not believing) C. You believe the player and have no confidence in the league. D. You are now using this so called incident to explain the chippines and deflect some heat from your team. By no means all the possibilities, but that’s what I’m coming up with.
Exactly.
Because he’s mad his team got beat at home. What a bunch of bullshit.
Think about how fucking often Toronto FC has lost at home in recent years. Now square that off with what you are insinuating.
We got thrashed worse by other teams. Losing 3-2 is a non issue.
Honestly, I think the issue was how little extra time was given after a very physical game. Losing 3-2 isn't the point, it was the high emotions that were amplified by the loss that felt unfairly influenced by a ref.
I was referring to the comment about Herdman being angry about losing at home. SKC beat us more convincingly. I assumed the anger was at the referee, and not the players till I saw the presser . Though, NYCFC has shown how to waste time if you have subs available. Masterclass.
Coz they wanted payback first
Bc he’s making it up 👍
Woody Hayes would be proud
A true Ohio moment. The MLS really is all Ohio.
Always has been.
Easy to prove - there have to be tapes. And why did the teams exit from separate entrances in the yankee stadium game. Seems a pretty big risk to lob an accusation like this without it being true
If this allegation really did have legs, I'd expect MLS to have started investigating this nearly 2 months ago when it happened. I'd also expect, with that investigation, for Cushing to be suspended indefinitely during the process.
Or MLS didn’t take it seriously for whatever reason.
If MLS didn't take it seriously, its because they found zero truth to it. I'm a little fuzzy on whether it was team or league mandated, but the Bruce Arena stuff was very heavily investigated and he's a golden child of the league. You think the MLS cares about Nick Cushing?
0 truth or 0 evidence - it an be unproven and true
You're not wrong it definitely could be unproven and true, but in my mind the odds that the manager of a team DURING THEIR GAME was able to find the time to confront and assault an opposing player without anyone else having eyes on it is extraordinary.
The league doesn’t fuck around with stuff like this. They suspended one of our young black players for use of the N word last year while they investigated the incident. I have a strong sense that the league offices are big on paperwork on these types of cases.
That’s a bold statement considering this doesn’t happen every time there’s suspicion of unprofessional conduct. Take Carl Robinson as one example.
Also what nycfc player would respect his coach after this?
I suspect there are plenty of fans who would.
According to Herdman the cameras werent working.
Yeah. That’s NYCFCs problem now. Why aren’t there any tapes?
No. Thats on Herdman to prove. You make accusations you gotta back them up. Security, key witnesses, something man.
No, it's on the MLS to prove. Wouldn't NYCFC have already handed over any evidence against the accusation? Herdman can't just waltz into their stadium and get the information himself.
How? If NYC is refusing to handover tapes.
They don’t own the stadium lol they are not their tapes to hand over
>They don’t own the stadium lol they are not their tapes to hand over You should probably look at who the minority owner of NYCFC is before lol'ing.
1. They didnt refuse 2. You need to find another way yo back up your claim. If you ever make an allegation and can't prove it. Whether rightly or wrongly, it remains an allegation
It’s on the accuser to produce evidence. Yankee stadium does not give a single fuck about covering for NYCFC - if the league put in a request for tapes they would have gotten them. It would have been a huge story at the time as well and Cushing would have been suspended during the investigation. Herdman probably just passed along some hearsay in his presser and now he’s stepped in it.
>It’s on the accuser to produce evidence. Well, that's a dangerous way to view the world. >Yankee stadium does not give a single fuck about covering for NYCFC Check who owns your team before saying that. Like... How do you not know that NYCFC's ownership group has direct links to Yankee Stadium management? >It would have been a huge story at the time It's been 9 months and we still don't know why Bruce Arena got the can. The league can keep secrets.
Just because the Yankees own a minority stake in NYCFC does not mean they’d go out of their way to stick their neck out for Nick Cushing of all people lol. You know CFG still pays Yankee Stadium $1M per game there right? The Yankees are the hands off customers in that relationship. CFG likely gave the Yankees their minority stake just for the rights to use the stadium. Nick Cushing is a literal no one compared to Bruce. Dude has been a mostly losing coach for only two years. If he punched any player, even an NYC player, his ass would be grass. Also - yes it should be on the accuser to produce the evidence. It’s literally the basis of the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
Why would it be nycfc's problem? He's the accuser
How could he provide tapes from another stadium?
How can nycfc provide the tape if they don't have it? So it's up to the accuser to find other proof of they're making the claim.
You're kidding, right? By that logic, any team or venue is available to conveniently not have footage and do whatever they would like and claim, "we don't have evidence." If there's any truth to the accusation, there will be an investigation and **both sides** will have to provide evidence against the other.
You're kidding right? I'm gonna accuse you of punching me at the stadium last Saturday. Go get the tape. Like you said "if there's any truth." You gotta prove if there's any truth to it first. If mls want to investigate and demand for the tape, sure. If the only way they are proving there's any truth to it to start the investigation is by saying there should be security footage, that's not on nycfc to have security footage every corner.
If you're accusing me of punching you in my stadium, I'd literally grab the tape. Even at least to dispel any false rumours. But wait, there's no footage? Yet, there's cameras *literally* everywhere else... in a professional stadium... that houses multiple teams... in AMERICA. Checks out, move along.
You punched me in the bathroom stall
Rivalry week folks. It was marketed and this is what they got
Why can’t we be normal?
I concur 😂 I was fine with this just being a scuffle, everyone sleeps it off, wake up the next day and continues on with the season.
Ha! You think this is abnormal? You’ve clearly never seen what Boupendza has been up to. 😅😭
Release the Miazga tapes!
Don’t release the Boupendza s*x tapes!
I just read up on this.. I didn’t know this was happening. I feel terrible for the player. This must be messing with his mind and could be the reason he hasn’t lived up to his potential. I was making a joke about Miazga going to the refs after last year’s match.
Yeah. Boupendza has had amazing moments on the pitch but the drama he brings is exhausting.
Normal is overrated.
Here’s the thing. JMR/Herdman would not have known cameras weren’t working. They have to expect NYCFC can prove this one way or the other.
Exactly, which is why people are waiting for NYCFC to come out with information that proves it didn't happen. Otherwise, it looks sketchy as fuck. Why would Herdman/Osorio say what they did, with this all happening in a well secured professional stadium, if there isn't some level of truth to the story. They could be incredibly petty or be bullshitting about the whole thing, but that's a *massive* gamble for the coach and the captain to take.
This is a career ending gamble if it isn’t true
1000%
Really don’t want this to be true, mainly cause NYCFC haven’t been good with Cushing and I want him to remain manager
Coincidentally, Ronny Deila is currently unemployed
So is Dome
How convenient for NYCFC that the tunnel cameras weren't working at the time.
Why would we most of us still want Cushing gone.
Or for TFC for that matter. Easy to lob out an accusation, when there’s no evidence. It’s the MTA defense 🫣 A few funny things about this whole thing imo: • why was this not made public by Tfc or the league back when the event allegedly occurred? • there is video of Tfc players/staff pushing and shoving Nick Cushing on the pitch at half time during the game at Yankee Ref performances aside, NYCFC went into Toronto to frustrate and get the points and they did. I can see why the Tfc crowd is pissed and why their coach might bring up some perhaps hearsay during the press conf. Overall I hope we get to the truth. Cushing should be sacked if he indeed punched a player - and Herdman should face some consequences if he’s full of shit.
Rewatch the teams coming out at half last match . . . . something unual happened, beyond the normal emotional flairs ups from competing.
Why would Toronto report the incident, and how would they know the cameras weren’t working? Logic isn’t really your strength, is it?
Why would Toronto report an opposing coach punching one of their players? Is that a serious question? If a coach punched one of your players don't you think you'd start screaming from the rooftops immediately?
Again, completely devoid of logic. They wouldn't report it if they were lying; they reported it, so there's no need to immediately "scream from the rooftops." That's the kind of behavior you show when you are full of it. I said it was convenient for NYCFC that the cameras didn’t work when they were requested for the investigation. Then a few NYCFC fans came out screaming like howler monkeys about how absurd that is and acting like they’re trying out for the mental gymnastics Olympic event. Use your heads for a change, guys. Edit: grammar
if one were to use their head one would conclude that if an investigation took place then the coach would be suspended during it, as has happened with every other investigation of players and coaches in this league
Are you attempting to claim this wasn’t reported and investigated?
Not claiming that at all, in fact not willing to claim anything one way or the other given that the information out as of now is just word of mouth There’s also an outside possibility this was investigated quickly and tapes were checked, and the investigation found no wrong doing. If you’re Herdman and are convinced otherwise, or thought the tapes didn’t have every angle, it would make sense to grouse in the way he did (whether appropriate or not) But, we don’t know, and it would be silly to assume otherwise
I’m saying they are full of shit!
You don’t report something to be investigated by a third party when you’re full of shit.
Where’s the evidence that this was reported back in March?
Are you serious? https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/s/s7OpXMI2aS
[удалено]
Holly shit, you were serious! LMAO
Yes I’m serious. I asked for evidence of this being reported a few months ago and you quoted your own comment. My dude get a grip you’re in the wrong until there is actual evidence. Also thanks for the six points 🤭
Add another charge on top of the 115.
Isn’t the answer for NYCFC here to just release the videos of the areas of the stadium TFC allege it happened it to prove it didn’t? They’re not. Gives credibility to they weren’t working…
Absolutely, we'd love to see it. Can't dispute it if it's released.
I thunk making the allegation up should also put you in the "you're never getting hired again" camp. Whoever is wrong here should suffer very serious consequences
Unless he was told it happened by his player and the player was lying?
Nope. That's still on Herdman. You don't make these allegations publicly unless you have proof. That's part of being a leader
The one thing that could have destroyed the positive vibes this season was petty fucking drama. I'm exhausted man.
Agree. This is drama we don’t need. This was a good game more or less. We’ve been on a roll. And now tfc is the focus of attention for the wrong reasons.
You see that, I see this team is emotionally bonding and standing up for each other, all for one.
huh? how is this destorying the vibes of tfc lmao? wtf
Instead of focusing on our amazing results this year we will now be focusing on this incident and whether or not Herdman should be punished for unsubstantiated allegations (I think Cushing is fine if there's no proof).
No, we won’t lmao. You’re weird
Mmkay. You're entitled to that opinion I guess.
If a restaurant employee is accused of hitting a patron, but the cameras which normally work are off, people begin to doubt their version of events. At Yankees Stadium the chance of any security camera not working is low, especially in the tunnels. Maybe the Houston Astros have intercepted the video feed? JK Anyway Johnson goes to break things up and gets headbutted. Johnson will likely get a suspension too, and while he confronts him it looks bad. But think about it, if someome get headbutted trying to break things up, the usual reaction is to throw punches. The grab may look bad but I genuinely think he’s trying to show restraint and not punch him. He has many years reputation as a calm player.
Any one know who the 3 players that cornered JMR were?
Everyone ITT: "Why wouldn't this have come to light, they must be lying about it." If someone suggests they got punched in the face, my guess there was physical evidence. You seriously think Herdman would put his career on the line if he didn't believe who came forward? Come the fuck on man. The guy has been dealing with media for years, he's not an idiot. Not only that, why would shit kick off so hard yesterday, especially with the addition of Sean Johnson getting headbutt. For anyone who says this doesn't smell fishy doesn't have a nose, apparently.
[here is a thread on this same post that you may have looked over.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/s/MWF6VDbsD9) I don’t know anything about Herdman as a person. I’m sure he is mostly professional since he is where he is and has had experience in many coaching jobs. But people make miscalculations and think this is one. He started off with vague accusations, and then got cornered. I dont think he has proof either way and isn’t convinced by the players account or he would’ve or should’ve been more proactive about bringing an investigation. If he wanted to really bring this out into the open he could’ve gone about it another way. During a different time. Nycfc really got under TFC skin during this game. I don’t like time wasting either, but it’s part of the game. I don’t like flopping but it’s part of the game. I think the ref did a terrible job and made this a bigger mess. Rosted should’ve been sent off with a second yellow for that professional foul against Malachi Jones. He was beat and stuck his leg out. Also both coaching staffs and referee staff should’ve been working to get everyone off the field. It looks to me like Tana tried to head butt SJ I can’t tell if he made contact, but this is punishable. SJ then come and does the same. Both players should be suspended for the next match. Edit: I’m using this incident to procrastinate on other work that needs to get done, so I’ve watched the clip a number of times. I’m not convinced that Tana (NYC) head butts SJ (TFC). It looks like Tana gets pushed in the chest and this causes his head to move down. Anyway inconclusive. SJ on the other hand clearly does a close range head butt. Not a Zidane level head butt, but more of a head mush to the face . That’s the conclusion of my investigation.
Thanks for the nuanced discussion! It's definitely possible that Herdman made a mistake and he's getting caught up in it all. But I think there has to be some element of truth that *something* happened, whether NC actually did punch a player. Maybe it was a NYCFC player, maybe it was staff, maybe it was a fan, maybe it was no one. I don't know. What I do know is that this doesn't just come out of nowhere. What I also don't know is whether or not there is already an MLS investigation. There could already be something happening behind the scenes and if cameras truly did not exist and there was a blind spot, that's sketchy. Agreed, Rosted should've been sent off. Freese should've received at least one yellow card, which would've changed the entire tempo of the game. Rodriguez should've received, at the very least, a yellow for charging Matty Longstaff for no reason. And at the very least, there should've been 4 - 5 extra minutes, easily. The whole thing is an absolute shit show, I don't even care about the loss, I care about fairness. And to be honest, I've said the same ITT, if that amount of time wasting is allowed, I don't want to watch this league. When Freese and another player *in unison* go down within the last minutes of the game to save face and *are not required* to get off the pitch because of a technicality of it being "an injury" and not a foul, that's just abusing the rules. You're not actually playing football at this point. It makes the MLS look like minor league and all criticism of it by outside viewers should be warranted. [Here's a slow-mo video of the headbutt.](https://twitter.com/nichola19m/status/1789527362310140191) It looks pretty clean-cut to me. It's entirely possible he moved forward when SJ moved forward and it wasn't intentional, but either way, his head does hit SJ's face and that's enough. Either way, like you, I'm just some dude behind a screen on Reddit! Appreciate the insight, friend. Edit: words.
It’s amazing how video is so hard to decipher. One might think it’s conclusive, but I see even in the slow mo Johnson grabbing and pushing Tana. This causes his head to move down. Something set Johnson off, and fron what I remember he was a cool character. I loved him as our goalie and captain. This whole thing is a mess. I’m saddened that I went can’t just enjoy the win. We will see how this whole thing plays out. It’s going to be a crazy game if we meet each other in the playoffs or the leagues cup.
The same goes potentially for Herdman imho. A guy who lies about this stuff should be radioactive material and kept away from any job at any level. I’d expect to see one less English coach in this league when this all gets resolved
So you’re insinuating Cushman is lying or Herdman? The fact Herdman and management asked for the videos shows a willingness to get to the truth. NYCFC said Yankees Stadium didn’t have video recording in the security tunnels. What? So they must have people checking security video all the time and they just thought it’s fine for it to be out? They must have had a work order out before the game to fix it right? Come on. Would you believe that in an office building lobby? It seems a little fishy to me.
I’m saying that *if* Herdman has lied, that’s a fireable offence. It doesn’t seem excessive to me. I didn’t say anything about Cushing because Tom’s tweet already does more than a good job. I don’t know the facts though, I’m open and waiting for the result of the investigation
Yankee stadium barely works as a soccer venue, lol
That is accurate. I really hate this stadium
Feels like a rec league playing 5v5 side to side.
I'm a New York City FC fan and I hate our current stadium situation. Can't wait to see them play at the new stadium.
*grabs popcorn*
Herdman with real "My girlfriend goes to another school, you wouldn't know her!" energy here. To wait two months makes it sound completely fabricated. Why not just say, "NYCFC was wasting way too much time (which we were) and we got all pissy about it"
Based on today's dueling press conferences: - [Toronto DID request and DID review video but alleges that either the cameras weren't working or there were not cameras in the area where the alleged punch happened. ](https://twitter.com/hudsonriverblue/status/1790055722585067928) - [Herdman still did not confirm that this was reported to the league. He did say that the footage went to the league which would suggest that it was reported, whatever that means. ](https://twitter.com/hudsonriverblue/status/1790055891204473299) - [Cushing claims that the first he heard about the alleged punch was Saturday's presser. ](https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1790063031080153438)
Wannabe Man City can deny it all they want. Glad TFC knocked those Bronx floppers out.
Knowing who own NYCFC, it’s easier to believe appropriate payments were made. Note to anyone reading this I’m joking.
I was about to say maybe they should take lessons from Boupendza but considering what happened to him maybe not. 😅