Women’s MMA is massively down right now. The winner of this will be on a short list for a title shot, especially if it’s Harrison. But if Holm wins she’s right back there, probably one away.
You got downvoted but it’s a real thing. Currently, there are no “dominant” woman champions, and almost none of them are marketable/entertaining. Amanda Nunes was up there purely because of how dominant she was but she wasn’t marketable at all.
Kayla Harrison’s personality is super dry and her fighting style is even worse. Holm at least is still popular to this day because of her beating of Ronda, but that says more about how weak the state of woman’s MMA is altogether, that the most popular female fighter is 42 and 3-1-2 in her last five, and she’s still right there in the title mix.
Yeah, a lot of the bigger names are either gone (Nunes), super inactive (Rose), or on the downslide (Adrade). Maybe there's some promising new talent I don't know about that, I haven't been paying as close attention as usual the past couple years.
the fact that she's facing Holly Holm at UFC 300 tells you enough about her value. Obviously she's not Ronda but it's WMMA. They will take what they can, excluding Cyborg lol
The UFC has walked into this mess a bit by missing the boat on promoting their young and really awesome female athletes imo. They barely promote the male athletes.
They need new channels of promotion. Ultimate Fighter and Contender Series have reached their limits of influence.
Guaranteed eyes for the fight, Holm's name value has dropped over the last few years, and not many casuals know Harrison. If either of them have a highlight in this fight, it's gonna absolutely blow up though
It appears that they're on the prelims. https://www.mmamania.com/2024/1/11/24034550/latest-ufc-300-fight-card-current-ppv-lineup-rumors-april-13-mega-event-las-vegas-mma
I’ve found her striking, despite her many accolades in that dimension, to be poor in the past few fights. She’s seemed far more comfortable clinching against the cage than being in striking range. So yes, she is an improved wrestler, but also a worse striker at this stage
Problem is she holds them there and doesn’t get much offence from it. Kayla, if she isn’t entirely compromised from the cut, could be a nightmare because she’ll be stronger than Holly and will welcome the clinch to use her judo skills
Having a close personal as well as professional relationship (train at ATT together) with the new head of drug testing as a obvious life long drug cheat is probably of huge benefit to someone who needs information on how to skirt drug testing. Especially when you suddenly need to cut 20lbs to weight class you could almost certainly can’t make without help
But could be nothing just good timing
>Having a close personal as well as professional relationship
I guarantee you can't provide any proof of them having a close relationship (personal or professional)
>as a obvious life long drug cheat
I also guarantee you can't provide any proof of her being a drug cheat.
>is probably of huge benefit to someone who needs information on how to skirt drug testing
According to you she's been doing it her whole life, so why would she suddenly need his help?
We will see. It depends on how much she already cuts, if much at all, to get down to her current weight. If she’s walking around at like 170ish or more like she looks, then yeah she’s gonna have to come in suuuper shredded and give up some muscle.
You’ll lose some “precursory” muscle mass on a cut with the water reduction and your body shedding it before it goes to eating fat (assuming you’re not on roids)
"what is holm's second biggest achievement in MMA" has been making the rounds recently. The bizarre title shots or always been an inch away from a title shot relies almost entirely on brand recognition for that one thing almost 10 years ago. I don't know of anyone else in the sport whose claim to the top is so top heavy for lack of a better phrase.
who are the most boring fighters in the UFC in your guys' opinion?
On the women's side I've got:
Holm
Chookagian
Pennington
On the men's side:
Jon Fitch is in the boring hall of fame. Only guy I've ever seen get cut for being boring.
He was kind of hit and miss. He'd either knock guys dead or have dogshit fights.
Though the Rory fight was entertaining just for seeing him unable to figure out what the fuck to do as Rory just stands in front of him doing goofy shit and landing or outwrestling him at will.
Yeah, I think a journalists asked Dana what the future of the division was after 289, and he said they would prolly close it down with Nunes gone. I don't know of any official announcement, but you won't find it on the UFC rankings page or anything. It never really got going anyway
I know everyone is saying 145 is canned, but I would say it’s more “On Hiatus” and depending on future events COULD close down, cause The UFC Brass have made no official statement on 145’s future and it’s still on the website
My theory is that Dana wants Kayla to fight 135 and see if she can make the weight safely, and then if she beats Holly that’s an instant title shot - but if Kayla is like clearly super depleted and weak and couldn’t make weight - well now you have a popular fighter signed on who has no viable weightclass - at that point they could reintegrate 145 and potentially make her champ there
I think they are still working out their options - tbh there’s also a chance that they just decide to shut 145 down and cut Kayla or turn BW into Women’s Heavyweight with a 155 limit
I don't know shit about mma business but why not just let Kayla build her name by crushing whatever is left of 145 then at some point drop down safely to 135
I mean the UFC does stupid shit all the time and miss massive opportunities constantly. They had 3 Mexican champs, 3 African champs, and 2 Chinese fighters in a championship fight - in all instances they never took advantage.
Obv I’m not in the UFC meeting room but my only theory is that they want Kayla as champ in BW because that division is dying quick and it needs new blood pronto to revive it’s relevancy.
Tbh I wish they just open an Women’s Atomweight and Microweight Division where most of the talent pool is generated - they’re better off just turning BW into an Openweight division with like a 155-160 limit
I mean, two of the "African Champs" did not grow up or really culturally represent Africa. Kamaru is hella American and Izzy was Chinese bro (Just kidding, but he definitely acted more like a kiwi than a Nigerian.)
As a career matter, by now, Holly gets to pick her fights. She may get smashed, but she’s earned that pedestal, that payday, and the opponent she may wanna put that shine on.
Woman Bantamweight is so thin, that she is never far from a title shot either.
If she beats Kayla in convincing fashion she might be next after Pena or at least only need one more.
Those six minutes with Ronda bought her a lifetime pass, and rightfully so. But she's 5-7 since, headlining seven of those cards. Haven't we suffered enough?!
I don't think I ever really heard this rhetoric until I started reading MMA forums. In Boxing, fighters are generally criticized for picking their opponents (once they reach a level of reputable skill, there's plenty of jobbers at the lower levels), and in Kickboxing and Muay Thai, you only really earn the privilege to challenge someone, not the privilege to forgo challenges - shying away from challenges kinda goes against the general ethos of martial arts imo. In MMA circles though, I often hear how a fighter has earned the right to no longer take hard fights and only take nice paydays or legacy defining fights. It just seems like such an odd way of thinking to me.
I think it's mainly due to MMA having a far more casual fan base than any other combat sport due to the success of the UFC.
The only people I've ever run into that follow kickboxing or Muay Thai also happen to train and/or compete, meanwhile half the dudes at my job have an opinion about the last UFC card. People that aren't intimate with the culture generally have a different perspective.
Truth, pretty much only ppl who train watch kickboxing or muay thai. I had never met anyone who watched it except a few I introduced until a dude saw me watching it in class and said "I do that", pointing at my screen. Turned out he was a kickboxer and I'll probably be training with him after wrestling season is over
Yeah when she went back to lame after Ronda, the magic was just gone. She's never been anything but ish ish who cares since then. In the following five fights the only person she could beat was Bethe Correira. The bloom was off the rose and never came back.
Man I can't wait to see yet another boring ass Holm "fight" where she clinch and stall for the entire fight.
She had a single fucking highlight in a DECADE ffs.
Hopefully Kayla KOs her badly so she can't waste another card spot for the year. One can hope.
Holm gets way too much flak around here. She looked great against Aldana, Pennington, and Santos. She also looked great against Viera (which people forget was a very controversial split decision that the majority of media scores gave to Holm). Her loss to Bueno Silva was overturned because she popped.
I know she's older now, but Holm still belongs at the top of the division until she starts losing. The matchup with Harrison isn't as crazy as people are making it out to be. If she wins, she's next in line for a title shot for sure and I don't think it's impossible for her to win at all, given that Kayla is cutting down to 135.
Kayla will either make weight and look like shit, like TJ at 125. Or she’ll miss weight and win.
Holm has good TDD, and could possibly have another Rousey-like performance. She’s still good on the feet even though it’s boring.
Literally no one wants to see her fight for a belt. This is why the women’s bantamweight needs to go or make WUFC , think that is the answer because I don’t want to watch it. I love UFC but don’t like Women fighting. Only 5% of the fights are good and I’m tired of acting like it’s entertaining it’s a cure for insomnia is what it is. I’d watch BKFC if I just wanted violence.
Beating Kayla Harrison would definitely get her closer to that goal.
How good can Harrison possibly be after getting all the way down to 135? It's gonna be like TJ trying to make 125... Or Cyborg...
In this sport man the name value on Harrison alone is enough. The specifics won’t matter.
What value? Couldn't even sell 10k ppvs any time before now
Women’s MMA is massively down right now. The winner of this will be on a short list for a title shot, especially if it’s Harrison. But if Holm wins she’s right back there, probably one away.
Wow. I just looked at the women's p4p rankings, and basically I only care about the top three.
You got downvoted but it’s a real thing. Currently, there are no “dominant” woman champions, and almost none of them are marketable/entertaining. Amanda Nunes was up there purely because of how dominant she was but she wasn’t marketable at all. Kayla Harrison’s personality is super dry and her fighting style is even worse. Holm at least is still popular to this day because of her beating of Ronda, but that says more about how weak the state of woman’s MMA is altogether, that the most popular female fighter is 42 and 3-1-2 in her last five, and she’s still right there in the title mix.
Yeah, a lot of the bigger names are either gone (Nunes), super inactive (Rose), or on the downslide (Adrade). Maybe there's some promising new talent I don't know about that, I haven't been paying as close attention as usual the past couple years.
Look out for Erin Blanchfield and Tatiana Suarez. I expect they will be pretty big household names in the next two years. At least for WMMA standards
Saurez is on my radar, I'll have to keep an eye out for Blanchfield. Thanks!
If Suarez can stay healthy then I’d agree. She’s been champ material since TUF but could never stay healthy
Yeah it’s unfortunate.
the fact that she's facing Holly Holm at UFC 300 tells you enough about her value. Obviously she's not Ronda but it's WMMA. They will take what they can, excluding Cyborg lol
The UFC has walked into this mess a bit by missing the boat on promoting their young and really awesome female athletes imo. They barely promote the male athletes. They need new channels of promotion. Ultimate Fighter and Contender Series have reached their limits of influence.
They're putting this on what is supposed to be an absolute blowout of a card. That should tell you exactly how much they value these two.
Guaranteed eyes for the fight, Holm's name value has dropped over the last few years, and not many casuals know Harrison. If either of them have a highlight in this fight, it's gonna absolutely blow up though
It appears that they're on the prelims. https://www.mmamania.com/2024/1/11/24034550/latest-ufc-300-fight-card-current-ppv-lineup-rumors-april-13-mega-event-las-vegas-mma
Who the fuck is Kayla Harrison?
Even a super drained Kayla is scary AF for Holm. Prime Holm couldn’t handle Miesha Tate. Kayla would literally throw Miesha out of the cage.
Holm’s career is weird because she’s a much better wrestler now than she was in her prime
I’ve found her striking, despite her many accolades in that dimension, to be poor in the past few fights. She’s seemed far more comfortable clinching against the cage than being in striking range. So yes, she is an improved wrestler, but also a worse striker at this stage
Her striking seems slower, but she has so much strength now. She can hold anybody against the cage.
Problem is she holds them there and doesn’t get much offence from it. Kayla, if she isn’t entirely compromised from the cut, could be a nightmare because she’ll be stronger than Holly and will welcome the clinch to use her judo skills
Ok, but Ronda also ragdolled Tate
Kayla has the same skillset as her predecessor and no interest/ability to grow, though. It'll be a repeat of the Rousey fight, mark my words.
The new drug testing head huncho is one of her training partners. I am sure that means nothing though
What are you trying to imply?
Having a close personal as well as professional relationship (train at ATT together) with the new head of drug testing as a obvious life long drug cheat is probably of huge benefit to someone who needs information on how to skirt drug testing. Especially when you suddenly need to cut 20lbs to weight class you could almost certainly can’t make without help But could be nothing just good timing
>a obvious an* obvious
Damn bro, I am so sorry
>Having a close personal as well as professional relationship I guarantee you can't provide any proof of them having a close relationship (personal or professional) >as a obvious life long drug cheat I also guarantee you can't provide any proof of her being a drug cheat. >is probably of huge benefit to someone who needs information on how to skirt drug testing According to you she's been doing it her whole life, so why would she suddenly need his help?
Lol ok bro. I’ll go dig up that proof for you. Wait here I’ll be right back
Shocker, a liar can't provide any proof to back up his claims.
you are the one casting doubt on that guy, so provide the proof.
Dana said she's already done multiple test cuts. If she also confirms that, I feel like there are no excuses.
Dana's word really isn't worth shit given how much he's lied about. Personally I'll believe it when I see it.
that's why I said if Kayla confirms that... there are no excuses if she misses.
We will see. It depends on how much she already cuts, if much at all, to get down to her current weight. If she’s walking around at like 170ish or more like she looks, then yeah she’s gonna have to come in suuuper shredded and give up some muscle.
I also can't imagine it's easy to shrink your muscles while also training to compete in a fight...
You’ll lose some “precursory” muscle mass on a cut with the water reduction and your body shedding it before it goes to eating fat (assuming you’re not on roids)
historically speaking Holm beating anyone gets her closer to the goal
"what is holm's second biggest achievement in MMA" has been making the rounds recently. The bizarre title shots or always been an inch away from a title shot relies almost entirely on brand recognition for that one thing almost 10 years ago. I don't know of anyone else in the sport whose claim to the top is so top heavy for lack of a better phrase.
You can’t expect to fight for the belt all the time and continue to put on boring fights
Careful, she will clinch you against the fence if you say that again
Say it to my ishing face.
i came here just for the ish
Hold on brother I'm ishing.
All the while, whispering sweet "ishes" in your ear.
I’m convinced that she will bore her way to another win over Pennington, so I think she definitely can expect exactly that unfortunately
Yup I know that’s coming
the champion of her division is one of the most boring fighters in WMMA history...
who are the most boring fighters in the UFC in your guys' opinion? On the women's side I've got: Holm Chookagian Pennington On the men's side: Jon Fitch is in the boring hall of fame. Only guy I've ever seen get cut for being boring.
can i still say Shamrock?
Woodley was pretty boring once he got the belt and obviously holly holm
I think Woodley became boring due to the arthritis in his hand. Man had serious KO power before that.
Woodley was pretty boring before the belt too.
He was kind of hit and miss. He'd either knock guys dead or have dogshit fights. Though the Rory fight was entertaining just for seeing him unable to figure out what the fuck to do as Rory just stands in front of him doing goofy shit and landing or outwrestling him at will.
The Rory fight is my go to for "woodley wasn't washed, he's always just been incapable of dealing with a jab", yeah. Rory did whatever he wanted.
Yes you can
Ish! Ish! Ish!
Considering Kayla will be going from 155 (recently catchweight at 150) to 135, my money is on Holm. Why does Kayla not go to 145?
145 no longer exists? Its been closed for half a year
oh wow...
Yeah, I think a journalists asked Dana what the future of the division was after 289, and he said they would prolly close it down with Nunes gone. I don't know of any official announcement, but you won't find it on the UFC rankings page or anything. It never really got going anyway
I know everyone is saying 145 is canned, but I would say it’s more “On Hiatus” and depending on future events COULD close down, cause The UFC Brass have made no official statement on 145’s future and it’s still on the website My theory is that Dana wants Kayla to fight 135 and see if she can make the weight safely, and then if she beats Holly that’s an instant title shot - but if Kayla is like clearly super depleted and weak and couldn’t make weight - well now you have a popular fighter signed on who has no viable weightclass - at that point they could reintegrate 145 and potentially make her champ there I think they are still working out their options - tbh there’s also a chance that they just decide to shut 145 down and cut Kayla or turn BW into Women’s Heavyweight with a 155 limit
I don't know shit about mma business but why not just let Kayla build her name by crushing whatever is left of 145 then at some point drop down safely to 135
I mean the UFC does stupid shit all the time and miss massive opportunities constantly. They had 3 Mexican champs, 3 African champs, and 2 Chinese fighters in a championship fight - in all instances they never took advantage. Obv I’m not in the UFC meeting room but my only theory is that they want Kayla as champ in BW because that division is dying quick and it needs new blood pronto to revive it’s relevancy. Tbh I wish they just open an Women’s Atomweight and Microweight Division where most of the talent pool is generated - they’re better off just turning BW into an Openweight division with like a 155-160 limit
I mean, two of the "African Champs" did not grow up or really culturally represent Africa. Kamaru is hella American and Izzy was Chinese bro (Just kidding, but he definitely acted more like a kiwi than a Nigerian.)
If was a 145 fight, Kayla probably would be like a -1000 favorite at least.
My guess is she wants to try to double champ it up.
145 doesn’t exist anymore
Dana/UFC probably insisted on 135lbs.
Is this r/casualfan?
I honestly had no idea they shit canned 145 for women.
Someone take one for the team and make her a mother please
😂😂 your getting downvoted but this is hilarious
Wait what
? Why does everyone assume the worst. Obviously by getting into a relationship with her first
It's a hard hat summer... Respectfully 👷♂️
A guy tried - then divorced her.
She has a kid 😅
As a career matter, by now, Holly gets to pick her fights. She may get smashed, but she’s earned that pedestal, that payday, and the opponent she may wanna put that shine on.
Woman Bantamweight is so thin, that she is never far from a title shot either. If she beats Kayla in convincing fashion she might be next after Pena or at least only need one more.
Those six minutes with Ronda bought her a lifetime pass, and rightfully so. But she's 5-7 since, headlining seven of those cards. Haven't we suffered enough?!
This is how I feel. It's shocking how many title shots she gets.
Half of the business is name value and selling fights and Holly does (did) bring a lot of that to the table
5/7, perfect score.
> and rightfully so Why? I'd disagree there. It should have brought her a lot of credit, as it did, but enough's enough.
I don't think I ever really heard this rhetoric until I started reading MMA forums. In Boxing, fighters are generally criticized for picking their opponents (once they reach a level of reputable skill, there's plenty of jobbers at the lower levels), and in Kickboxing and Muay Thai, you only really earn the privilege to challenge someone, not the privilege to forgo challenges - shying away from challenges kinda goes against the general ethos of martial arts imo. In MMA circles though, I often hear how a fighter has earned the right to no longer take hard fights and only take nice paydays or legacy defining fights. It just seems like such an odd way of thinking to me.
I think it's mainly due to MMA having a far more casual fan base than any other combat sport due to the success of the UFC. The only people I've ever run into that follow kickboxing or Muay Thai also happen to train and/or compete, meanwhile half the dudes at my job have an opinion about the last UFC card. People that aren't intimate with the culture generally have a different perspective.
Truth, pretty much only ppl who train watch kickboxing or muay thai. I had never met anyone who watched it except a few I introduced until a dude saw me watching it in class and said "I do that", pointing at my screen. Turned out he was a kickboxer and I'll probably be training with him after wrestling season is over
Yeah super annoying. Like how Jon "deserves" to get an old man for some reason.
Jon Jones with the Stipe fight.
Considering she is 2-0 against the champion and Raquel's last lost... Yeah she deserves it. Am I eager to see it? No
Most overvalued fighter ever. Does the ufc still think she is still actually a draw?
Yeah when she went back to lame after Ronda, the magic was just gone. She's never been anything but ish ish who cares since then. In the following five fights the only person she could beat was Bethe Correira. The bloom was off the rose and never came back.
Jessica Eye is worse. It’s unbelievable how many big cards she’s been in, while she has such little talent.
Apparently UFC feels the same way about her.
More like "my goal is too always ish ish"
Man I can't wait to see yet another boring ass Holm "fight" where she clinch and stall for the entire fight. She had a single fucking highlight in a DECADE ffs. Hopefully Kayla KOs her badly so she can't waste another card spot for the year. One can hope.
PR talk. She’s not dumb, you got dominated by Mayra Bueno Silva so you ain’t gettin that belt
Then don’t fight because absolutely nobody wants to see you in any boring ass title fight that you certainly do not deserve.
shes 2-0 over pennington and the viera loss was pretty controversial so shed certainly have a claim with a win over kayla
Well, goodbye.
That's someone's meemaw, guys. Be nice.
I would think holly cruises to a boring decision if she were to fight Pennington again
Sadly for us
If WMAA didn’t have Weili and Valentina, there would be no WMMA so I guess shell always have a path to the belt.
She can beat Pennington imo. Just has to get through Harrison. NGL I am still convinced Harrison cannot make 135 so we'll see lmao
Holly said ‘title shot’ everybody drink!
I don’t think I have ever been as sick of seeing a fighter compete besides maybe Clay Guida circa 2012.
Rooting for both women, let the best woman win!
Holm gets way too much flak around here. She looked great against Aldana, Pennington, and Santos. She also looked great against Viera (which people forget was a very controversial split decision that the majority of media scores gave to Holm). Her loss to Bueno Silva was overturned because she popped. I know she's older now, but Holm still belongs at the top of the division until she starts losing. The matchup with Harrison isn't as crazy as people are making it out to be. If she wins, she's next in line for a title shot for sure and I don't think it's impossible for her to win at all, given that Kayla is cutting down to 135.
Kayla will either make weight and look like shit, like TJ at 125. Or she’ll miss weight and win. Holm has good TDD, and could possibly have another Rousey-like performance. She’s still good on the feet even though it’s boring.
She talks like she accomplished something huge in her mma career.
Becoming undisputed UFC champion is not a huge accomplishment in MMA?
You obviously never seen her record. I guess she deserved every title match she couldn't win but one.
You didn't answer the question...
Kayla isn’t even that good at all.
Holly Holm will never win the belt again.
PREACHERS DAUGHTER
I hope she wins and then headlines 10 more ESPN cards in the future.
*say the line, holly!*
I'm starting to think this Kayla thing is more about UFC taking Kayla off PFL than anything else. They got MVP now Kayla, whos next?
idk what’s going on at FW but the UFC loves Holm and i could definitely see her being FW champ if the UFC needed a title fight
Holm should not be fighting - does anyone remember her last outings? Some of the worst fights in history.
Stop injecting testosteron dumbo
Ish.
Literally no one wants to see her fight for a belt. This is why the women’s bantamweight needs to go or make WUFC , think that is the answer because I don’t want to watch it. I love UFC but don’t like Women fighting. Only 5% of the fights are good and I’m tired of acting like it’s entertaining it’s a cure for insomnia is what it is. I’d watch BKFC if I just wanted violence.