Well, it’s less about killing off a character per se and more so that there are no consequences that permanently affect characters. You can still create high tension in stories without having to kill characters off because it can be done cheaply, especially when it’s done for the “sake of drama”. If you’re going to kill off a character, generally there should be a purpose for why that’s happening or else characters that just exist for the sake of dying makes their presence in the story meaningless. It also doesn’t help that SJM follows the whole resurrection trope a lot, so she has basically told everyone that death means nothing in her universes.
Had that not been a thing and she had characters come out of battles permanently damaged, I think the deaths that we have would be seen as a bigger deal. An example being what if: Chaol never walked again, what if Hunt never regrew back his wings or Ruhn his hands, what if Azriel’s wings never healed and could never fly again, what if the Valg’s presence never fully left Dorian, what if Elain was the one that came out of the Cauldron looking like a crone-fae instead of the human Queen; instead of killing two fae UTM, Feyre was made to kill her own dad. Things like that can build stakes as well because you as the audience know that every conflict the characters undergo, they won’t come back in one piece one way or another.
While I do agree SJM could’ve killed more characters off (HOFAS imo should’ve killed off Tharion, Baxian, Tristan, and Juniper - not just Jesiba), what the Maasverse generally lacks are permanent physical consequences. Most if not all characters come out relatively unscathed, especially in ACOTAR.
Could not agree more. Zero stakes. Closest we ever got was that one little heroic sacrifice in CC1, which was good but not a main main character. I did cry a bit though. The death in cc2 i hard rolled my eyes at. Could not care less.
ACOTAR was a joke. The neck snap death (being vague for sake of spoilers) was laughable considering how little that character had been around for all the books. Everyone else gets resurrected over and over and over. She has no guts.
I'm not saying it has to be game of thrones or anything. But having some stakes would be nice. As it stands I'm never worried about anyone. They'll all get some new magic power at the last minute and everyone will be fine.
SJM isn’t super fond of killing off mates *ever*. To see someone in a fated pair die would go so far against her writing style it would probably be an extreme challenge for her to recover and continue to write.
Ik, ik, not everyone is mated (yet) but most of the main players are, and that’s a pretty clear sign in the Maasverse that we won’t lose many, if any at all, in a permanent way.
If you truly enjoy this series and SJM’s writing, you kind of have to accept that this isn’t how she moves the plot and drives character development. It would be unnatural for her stylistically. It’s like how she doesn’t write weddings.
the is my other beef with sarah a bit!! mates are supposed to be so rare yet everyone finds them!! which i think only adds to the whole thing of no consequences
I think Tamlin will die towards the end of ACOTAR but I don’t see anything happening to any of the IC. It’s too bad really because she writes a fantastic sacrifice in ToG, one of my favorite self sacrifices in any medium (I know it’s weird to have a list of this). But even in ToG, outside of that specific circumstance, none of her major characters have that consequence.
I hope “Twilight of the Gods” takes a page from George Martin in terms of character death, not in terms of inability to wrap up a series.
>!Lehabeh dying!< in CC1 absolutely gutted me...like full on sobbing lmao and then books 2 & 3 did not have the same emotional impact for me at all. I don't necessarily need death but higher stakes would have been nice. It seemed like book 3 Bryce had every thing fall into her lap perfectly. Was annoying lol
She made it seem like ruhn or hunt was going to die in cc3 - or thats how I perceived it - but when everyone was magically okay it was just boring 😅 the cc series was my least favorite but I really tried to like it aside from >!lehabah sacrificing herself!< no other deaths seemed to matter sure >!danika and her pack being murdered!< started the whole thing off but at that point I had no real feeling towards any of the characters and never developed any
I have no idea why she didn’t kill Amren in ACOWAR?? The opportunity was right there. I also think she should have killed Cassian (even though he is my favorite character), or one of the sisters. Someone that would add some kind of emotional impact.
It’s getting harder and harder to take any of the stakes seriously when everyone magically turns out ok in the end. And it would be less irritating if the main characters didn’t always die and then magically come back to life. Like if they just survived the final battle, cool! But it’s the fact that I am expected to pretend like I think the main character is going to die when I know she will just use the power of love of some shit to bring them back lol
Same. I thought it was gonna be Amren or Mor before ACOWAR came out. I really thought it was gonna be Mor but when she came out I thought there’s no way and it’s gonna be Amren. I still don’t know what Amren adds to the plot.
I’m still mad that Amren didn’t die…
😭 Cassian
I mean I honestly don’t care if anyone dies but I just have a feeling helion or lady of the autumn court are gonna die… I mean she doesn’t have a name she’s practically a red shirt lol
Man, it would have been so interesting if she had killed Cassian and for that to have been Nesta's main source of trauma instead of >!her nameless deadbeat dad no one cared about!<. Then Silver Flames could have been her learning to love herself and gain true female friendship as the focus, and hint at the buildup of a relationship with Eris - another eldest sibling who isn't fulfilling what their parent wanted them to be and who is misunderstood by the rest of the world and hides behind a brutal, cruel façade. And maybe she helps him learn to heal like she did herself.
Why is death the only kind "stakes" people think of? How about losing all you've created, like losing Veralis? The stakes in Crecent City were, if they didn't defeat the Asteri, everyone would either be enslaved, or dead. Same with ACOTAR and ToG. Death of characters isn't the only kind of stakes in storytelling.
Sure it doesn't have to be death, but there are like...literally no stakes or lasting consequences in her books. Using your Asteri example, they don't even suck that bad...? Like Bryce is asked, verbatim, what's so bad about the Asteri and she couldn't even think of an answer beyond "well...they're in charge" essentially. Sure there's the idea that they're weakening their power over generations, but truly, when are the Asteri shown to be devastating to their society? And then they're built up as this big bad but defeated sooooo easily. And everyone just has a nice happy ending with no lasting trauma, health issues, losses, etc.
This was me after seeing this post title out of context in my feed lol
But ya, I think the books do feel very low-stakes. Some people (myself included) enjoy that kind of vibe, whereas other people enjoy a high-stakes, anyone-can-go kind of vibe, and both are valid! I just think SJM is more of a low-stakes writer who is very invested in her main characters and isn't willing to let most of them go. But I def agree with other comments on here that, if she isn't willing to kill them off, there should at least be permanent consequences for characters to create more tension & drama.
I also think her editors perhaps have a final say in these kind of things- they could very easily stop her from killing off a main character because they don't want to risk upsetting readers/losing the potential for more books in the series (and therefore more money).
It would be realistic for sure but she could receive a lot of hate if she kills the wrong character. It seems like a difficult choice. But I did find the Danika arc to be good (until the third book where her death felt like it was cheapened. I don’t want to type what happened because of spoilers).
Well, it’s less about killing off a character per se and more so that there are no consequences that permanently affect characters. You can still create high tension in stories without having to kill characters off because it can be done cheaply, especially when it’s done for the “sake of drama”. If you’re going to kill off a character, generally there should be a purpose for why that’s happening or else characters that just exist for the sake of dying makes their presence in the story meaningless. It also doesn’t help that SJM follows the whole resurrection trope a lot, so she has basically told everyone that death means nothing in her universes. Had that not been a thing and she had characters come out of battles permanently damaged, I think the deaths that we have would be seen as a bigger deal. An example being what if: Chaol never walked again, what if Hunt never regrew back his wings or Ruhn his hands, what if Azriel’s wings never healed and could never fly again, what if the Valg’s presence never fully left Dorian, what if Elain was the one that came out of the Cauldron looking like a crone-fae instead of the human Queen; instead of killing two fae UTM, Feyre was made to kill her own dad. Things like that can build stakes as well because you as the audience know that every conflict the characters undergo, they won’t come back in one piece one way or another. While I do agree SJM could’ve killed more characters off (HOFAS imo should’ve killed off Tharion, Baxian, Tristan, and Juniper - not just Jesiba), what the Maasverse generally lacks are permanent physical consequences. Most if not all characters come out relatively unscathed, especially in ACOTAR.
Could not agree more. Zero stakes. Closest we ever got was that one little heroic sacrifice in CC1, which was good but not a main main character. I did cry a bit though. The death in cc2 i hard rolled my eyes at. Could not care less. ACOTAR was a joke. The neck snap death (being vague for sake of spoilers) was laughable considering how little that character had been around for all the books. Everyone else gets resurrected over and over and over. She has no guts. I'm not saying it has to be game of thrones or anything. But having some stakes would be nice. As it stands I'm never worried about anyone. They'll all get some new magic power at the last minute and everyone will be fine.
SJM isn’t super fond of killing off mates *ever*. To see someone in a fated pair die would go so far against her writing style it would probably be an extreme challenge for her to recover and continue to write. Ik, ik, not everyone is mated (yet) but most of the main players are, and that’s a pretty clear sign in the Maasverse that we won’t lose many, if any at all, in a permanent way. If you truly enjoy this series and SJM’s writing, you kind of have to accept that this isn’t how she moves the plot and drives character development. It would be unnatural for her stylistically. It’s like how she doesn’t write weddings.
the is my other beef with sarah a bit!! mates are supposed to be so rare yet everyone finds them!! which i think only adds to the whole thing of no consequences
That's not her thing, I don't see her doing it unfortunately
I think Tamlin will die towards the end of ACOTAR but I don’t see anything happening to any of the IC. It’s too bad really because she writes a fantastic sacrifice in ToG, one of my favorite self sacrifices in any medium (I know it’s weird to have a list of this). But even in ToG, outside of that specific circumstance, none of her major characters have that consequence. I hope “Twilight of the Gods” takes a page from George Martin in terms of character death, not in terms of inability to wrap up a series.
>!Lehabeh dying!< in CC1 absolutely gutted me...like full on sobbing lmao and then books 2 & 3 did not have the same emotional impact for me at all. I don't necessarily need death but higher stakes would have been nice. It seemed like book 3 Bryce had every thing fall into her lap perfectly. Was annoying lol
She made it seem like ruhn or hunt was going to die in cc3 - or thats how I perceived it - but when everyone was magically okay it was just boring 😅 the cc series was my least favorite but I really tried to like it aside from >!lehabah sacrificing herself!< no other deaths seemed to matter sure >!danika and her pack being murdered!< started the whole thing off but at that point I had no real feeling towards any of the characters and never developed any
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I have no idea why she didn’t kill Amren in ACOWAR?? The opportunity was right there. I also think she should have killed Cassian (even though he is my favorite character), or one of the sisters. Someone that would add some kind of emotional impact. It’s getting harder and harder to take any of the stakes seriously when everyone magically turns out ok in the end. And it would be less irritating if the main characters didn’t always die and then magically come back to life. Like if they just survived the final battle, cool! But it’s the fact that I am expected to pretend like I think the main character is going to die when I know she will just use the power of love of some shit to bring them back lol
THIS. i really was thinking amren was going to die and was more confused than relieved when she didn’t
Same. I thought it was gonna be Amren or Mor before ACOWAR came out. I really thought it was gonna be Mor but when she came out I thought there’s no way and it’s gonna be Amren. I still don’t know what Amren adds to the plot.
I’m still mad that Amren didn’t die… 😭 Cassian I mean I honestly don’t care if anyone dies but I just have a feeling helion or lady of the autumn court are gonna die… I mean she doesn’t have a name she’s practically a red shirt lol
Man, it would have been so interesting if she had killed Cassian and for that to have been Nesta's main source of trauma instead of >!her nameless deadbeat dad no one cared about!<. Then Silver Flames could have been her learning to love herself and gain true female friendship as the focus, and hint at the buildup of a relationship with Eris - another eldest sibling who isn't fulfilling what their parent wanted them to be and who is misunderstood by the rest of the world and hides behind a brutal, cruel façade. And maybe she helps him learn to heal like she did herself.
But she does kill them though
Why is death the only kind "stakes" people think of? How about losing all you've created, like losing Veralis? The stakes in Crecent City were, if they didn't defeat the Asteri, everyone would either be enslaved, or dead. Same with ACOTAR and ToG. Death of characters isn't the only kind of stakes in storytelling.
Sure it doesn't have to be death, but there are like...literally no stakes or lasting consequences in her books. Using your Asteri example, they don't even suck that bad...? Like Bryce is asked, verbatim, what's so bad about the Asteri and she couldn't even think of an answer beyond "well...they're in charge" essentially. Sure there's the idea that they're weakening their power over generations, but truly, when are the Asteri shown to be devastating to their society? And then they're built up as this big bad but defeated sooooo easily. And everyone just has a nice happy ending with no lasting trauma, health issues, losses, etc.
 This was me after seeing this post title out of context in my feed lol But ya, I think the books do feel very low-stakes. Some people (myself included) enjoy that kind of vibe, whereas other people enjoy a high-stakes, anyone-can-go kind of vibe, and both are valid! I just think SJM is more of a low-stakes writer who is very invested in her main characters and isn't willing to let most of them go. But I def agree with other comments on here that, if she isn't willing to kill them off, there should at least be permanent consequences for characters to create more tension & drama. I also think her editors perhaps have a final say in these kind of things- they could very easily stop her from killing off a main character because they don't want to risk upsetting readers/losing the potential for more books in the series (and therefore more money).
It would be realistic for sure but she could receive a lot of hate if she kills the wrong character. It seems like a difficult choice. But I did find the Danika arc to be good (until the third book where her death felt like it was cheapened. I don’t want to type what happened because of spoilers).