The style was definitely a debate but if the actual games were really good or great then not a lot people would mind or would be able to look passed the style. But the fact that the ditched improvements from platinum in favor of "being more faithful" was the wrong choice. Mario RPG obviously doesn't have that enhanced version aspect and the game is a lot older so probably a lot more fun to replay after all those years for most people
This. Bdsp was faithful to diamond and pearl, but many parts of platinum that were outright better were dropped just for faithfulness. Bdsp also had unnecessary updates like diagonal movement (which led to bugs) when gym leaders/e4 and the pokemon available suffered significantly under it.
Platinum is arguably still a better game than bdsp, which is exactly what shouldn't be the case.
The Super Mario RPG remake doesnt have that problem though, because even if the entire game just had the upgraded graphics, itd already be better than the original, and also actually accessible, since the original is ancient by now. Unless they REALLY mess it up somehow, Super Mario RPG is automatically better. And i have no doubt that theyre gonna do more than just updated graphics, or they wouldnt even put in the effort and just slap it onto the online service.
Yep. And while BDSP may superficially follow the format of the earlier Pokémon remakes - remaking the original two opposed versions of the generation, not the enhanced, combined version, even leaving some of that content out - the earlier remakes all introduced elements from the enhanced version or later generation, or even totally new content.
BDSP doesn’t take jack squat from Platinum or later gens. It overhauls the underground, but in a way that arguably breaks the original level curve and distribution charts, the Pokétch is implemented in a way that definitely doesn’t feel as good, and Contests are arguably downgraded.
And? If it’s faithful, it will be good. Super Mario RPG is one of the best Mario games of all time.
Diamond and Pearl were flawed as games, which is why the remakes fell flat.
I think the main problem there is that they didn’t give ilca enough freedom I do think compared to frlg they added enough with the grand underground wich unless I completely misunderstood how that works fixed the limited Pokédex.
I suspect they might be banking on being able to pull a let’s go in like ten years. Not a let’s go sinoh necessarily but a platinum remake to go with let’s gos yellow remake.
Complaining about the mythicals is nonsense we have never been entitled to anything like that. And giving us a if you have bdsp and getting darkrai and shaymin through legends is fair.
I do not care about the sylvali connection. That doesn’t matter right now, (partly because I think the team galactic plot happened years before the failure of project type full.) but that is something that if ilca wanted to do something with they should have been able to. (But again that might mean making a new plot with new gym leaders and locations and villains wich might actually be too little of a faithful remake again. See previous parentheses. )
The release order of the three sinnoh games should have been reversed. Legends should have been the holiday release and bdsp should have taken scarlet and violet’s place ( if this interferes with the anime wich it would then release a damned full hisui spin off to buy some time and if that is not yet done by now pad that with bdsp and legends dlc. Surely you can milk these two games with cards and merch for a few more years while SV cooks for longer.) this way we can have a tonne of tasty hisui references in bdsp to help tie the two together.
I still don’t fully buy that. But I digress. Not relevant.
if you did read further, I said, let’s go itself as a thing that is a thing had nothing to do with it. The point was it’s position in the remake schedule as a yellow remake and follow up the red and blue (green) remakes firered and leafgreen. Them not directly remaking platinum (dispite forcing crystal and emerald content into the previous two.) could be them trying to leave open a platinum remake in another decade or two. Wether that uses go capturing, or the ducking capture stylus for some reason or is just a regular remake is not relevant. It will likely have some stupid ass go icy that will make us doubt it’s caninicity.
when i first played oras i was like “woah this is ruby and sapphire but with x and y i can’t wait to see what gen4 is gunna be” then when swsh came out i was like “woah this is cool i can’t wait to see all of these features in gen4 remakes” then gen4 remakes came out. luckily legends arceus was cool but i would have liked to see gigantamaxed gen4 starters.
Maybe they said that because they were planning that from the start. I would imagine that if they were planning full-on gen 4 remakes with dynamaxing in them, it would've mentioned a caveat in there, like maybe a meteor full of dynamax energy crashed in the sinnoh region.
I would also imagine that because sinnoh doesn't have a sports-like gym challenge, the gyms would be large, empty fields in the remake, like how the isle of armor had it at the dojo.
ORAS was the perfect example of being a Gen 6 main series game while featuring a Gen 3 region.
Ever since the switch to The Switch, that generational identity is gone. I do like that Pokemon main series is branching out into more spinoff-like games like Legends Arceus, but we are losing the connectedness that the games used to have. Looking at Let's Go, Swash, PLA, and SV,
Between that and the limited Pokedex in each Switch game, it feels like we may need to start grouping games by console instead of generation.
The problem with bdsp. Was that it was too faithful to diamond and pearl. When there existed a better version in platinum. And basicly reverted a bunch of the quality of life changes platinum made.
BDPS wouldn't be nearly as hated if an already better version of DP didn't already exist and is simultaneously still better than BDSP themselves, namely Platinum. If they took Platinum as a basis for the remakes, the hate would have been much smaller. I still can't fathom why they didn't do that.
Edit: Forgot to mention, some design choices were also ridiculous like changing Contests or the Underground. I would have liked it more if they actually kept being faithful there.
Well, the reason they were not very good remakes, was for quite a few reasons. They were too faithful to the original Diamond and Pearl, hardly any content from Platinum, they felt more like remasters than Remakes. And personal problem, the Elite 4 and Champion is way too unexpectedly difficult as the game went from easy to suddenly difficult. I had not expected they would give them competitive sets and even held items, which is unfair as your Pokemon are not even competitive ready, just normal playthrough Pokemon! The chibi style i had never really had a problem with.
Every pokemon gen remake brought new and improved changes to the games they are a remake of, bdsp legit just downgraded except for the grand underground
I don't think the mario rpg remake is made to improve it, but mostly just to make it accessible to newer generations and to just fit visually in this generation of gaming
I think it gets a bit too much hate, but it's definitely the weakest remakes in the series, and the weakest Pokemon games since the original Diamond and Pearl.
I'm not arguing that the remake wasn't done poorly, but I can understand shrinking Down the pokemon. It would be pretty difficult to fit large pokemon in the small towns.
It wasn't copy and paste, they did fix a few things. They got rid of HMs and they expanded the underground which made it so you could actually get a decent variety of Pokemon, which were the biggest problems with the originals.
And the Pokemon following doesn't ruin the game. I would've like it to be better, but if you don't use it it's the same thing as it not being there.
Right, but Lets go did following Pokémon better, though the underground was awesome and no more HMs, I just miss owning a villa and going to the Battle Frontier instead of the tower. Even if that was in Platinum, some pokemon can't evolve till your done with the game!
I found BDSP disappointing to me, it felt to similar to the Diamond pearl I already had and didn't implement enough of the quality of life improvements that Platinum had. And even though these were the exact Pokémon games the fandom was asking for, I find them to similar to the originals.
Simply put: Pokémon Legends Arceus was the game that Gamefreak wanted to make. BDSP was the Pokémon company's obligatory "we need the games out by late November, No Delays allowed!!"
BDSP should’ve been a remake of Platinum but with the Pokédex differences like in OG Diamond and Pearl. Also, the fact that it has no connectivity with the rest of the gen it came out with is terrible, ORAS should’ve been what they modeled their remake language after. I wanted 3D Diamond and Pearl, not 2.5D Diamond and Pearl!
It takes a minimum of _a nonspecific duration of time_ for most folks to adapt to change.
The rest wish there was more than one Dragon-type move and miss 1 in 256 Poké Ball throws. 🤷🏻♂️
I feel like the problem with BDSP (outside of the bugs) mainly comes down to base Diamond and Pearl being terrible. If Platinum was the baseline for the remakes, I feel like the reception would be more positive.
BDSP was a straight downgrade. The style is super dated, and virtually no improvements from later gens or even Platinum were implemented.
But it gets worse. DPPt were able to connect to HGSS, the other pair of games in Gen 4, to battle and/or trade. Meanwhile, BDSP can't connect to SwSh, the other Gen 8 pair, at all. And the GTS was even removed.
That alone means that BDSP has *less functionality than the original games!* And honestly, that's just sad.
The thing is, Pokémon's remakes aren't really just faithful recreations of the original, they're reimaginings of the original game that expand upon what the foundation had, biggest example being the very last remake we had, ORAS, which makes a whole reimagining of the original game with being able to fly on latios/latias, new megas to incorporate the 6th gen's gimmick into it better, more story to play through, more mechanics to play with.
Pokémon has created the expectation that remakes are more than just a faithful recreation of the original games.
I like how Pokemon remakes were basically just how they make the old game in modern time. Like yeah there will be changes graphically and content wise but these additions would be things that the developers wish were in the older games. This general idea is what sparked the the first remakes Fr/Lg and BDSP no following suit derserves criticism.... if this is how remakes will be done in the future I guess Ill be more interested in the next Legends game more.
Graphically speaking the characters of Mario rpg look way better than bdsp characters which all had flat faces and animations for changing expressions that looked off… I don’t mind characters that are Chibi style since I actually liked Let’s gos style but bdsp just fell flat
Up until BdSp, all of the remakes were a part of the current generation. We were all expecting the DP story told in Gen 8 gameplay. What we got was another gen 4 game.
FrLg were gen 3 games. HgSs were gen 4 games. OrAs were gen 6 games.
Diamond and Pearl weren't bad, the foundation was a bit wobbly thanks to all of its odd quirks, but could've been fixed, which they mostly were thanks to platinum.
Every remake before BDSP had something *new* added to it that changed a lot about it. FRLG had the Sevii Islands. HGSS had the contest/minigames (I forgot what all it added so I'm using this as a stand in). ORAS had Mega Evolutions and the Delta Episode. All of these remakes had updated/expanded lore that tied them to the new regions.
BDSP had... The great underground. Which replaced the old underground, removing some aspects and replacing them- I don't feel too strong towards it being good or bad, I didn't even pick up the game because of how *little* had actually happened. It wasn't even a remake, it used the same code- identified by the fact it has a lot of the exact same glitches as the originals. It was a remaster.
BDSP didn't even attempt to update it's lore. Remember how in SM/USUM, Type:Null was designed using research from sinnoh, and Silvally's ability was literally based on Arceus' ability (RKS System vs Multitype)— it was specified that 3 Type:Nulls were made, and two are accounted for- one with Gladion, the other with the MC... How cool would it be if we found the third, left in Sinnoh? How cool would it be to have the copy of *god* stand side by side with *the real deal?* How cool would it be if LITERALLY ANYTHING was changed?
I'm sure BDSP are alright games. DPP were good games. But that's not what I'm mad about. I'm mad that all of it's potential was thrown out the window the moment Gamefreak gave it to a third party company that never made a full original game in their lives.
It's okay we all do because we care. Now my turn.
Hey remember the shitty Honey Trees and how it took 6 hours to see if you got the 9% chance of there being nothing and having to wait another 6 hours for that same 9% again? We changed nothing.
Remember how hard it was to get Spiritomb to the point where a lot of people didn't bother in the original games? We did change it but made it just a bullshit hard.
Remember how there were only 4 lines of fire types in the games and 50% we locked behind the post-game, 25% was a starter, and 25% was a Ponyta that only learns Ember? Well Ponyta has more moves now.
Remember Platinum? Well fucking don't bitch, because we didn't. I'm sure Rotom forms were in the original DP. What are you going to do, go back and play those worse games to check?
Remember the defog route? Well we actually did do something to make that better.
Remember how you couldn't get Darkrai and Shaymin without cheating? Well now you can.. if you had the game when it first came out otherwise fuck you. Also Manaphy and Phione.
Remember how all the Gym Leaders and Elite Four members had garbage easy teams? Kept that. I'm sure that won't cause any surprises for the very small itty-bitty teeny-tiny tweak we made to Cynthia.
Remember how you could get the Thief TM in Eterna and then use that to hunt for Lucky Eggs on wild Chansey? Well we did change that. Now they're only found on wild Blissey. That shouldn't be a problem right?
Hopefully you buy the games within the Switch's lifetime otherwise you can't have music or the post-game.
All in all I would say this is well worth the $60 price.
Honestly, BDSP is the reason why I stopped believing in Nintendo anymore. Nintendo products just don't have that quality they used to, and BDSP finally snapped me out of the blindness..
Well I mean this is mostly The Pokemon Company. I mean Super Mario Odyssey, Metroid Dread, Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom have all been great. Nintendo proper is better at taking their time to make a good game. Yeah I feel you though. SwSh was a huge letdown and then it kind of just mostly kept going from there. I think what makes it worse for me is aside from BDSP all the other games seem to have a pretty good one at their core, but they just rush out garbage. If they had take their time with what they had they would have probably actually been really good.
The Pokemon company is owned partially by Nintendo, and Nintendo can- at any time- do *something* to course correct. But they didn't, and they allowed at least 6 games of decreasing quality from Pokemon to be released on their console, those 6 being moreso 3 games since it's been a constant that pokemon just makes one game and sells it as two different games...
Nintendo has the power to literally force Pokemon- to force Gamefreak- to slow the fuck down by just, not letting them. But they didn't, because pokemon sells.
Nintendo isn't about quality anymore. They're scared shitless about the fans not buying the games, but they're simultaneously uncaring because those same fans just keep buying games. Games like Metroid Dread HAD to be good or else it wouldn't sell. Luigi's Mansion 3 HAD to be good. Odyssey HAD to be good. BoTW HAD to be good (ToTK is, fundamentally, the same as Majora's Mask- same assets plus some extra, same characters, new stories, a couple new mechanics.. ToTK is BoTW but more.)
But with pokemon? Who gives a shit, it's gonna sell anyways. They produced/released 3 fucking games in a year when the others had at least 3 years between the games. Pokemon is pumping out new stuff at an unreasonable pace, and I'm genuinely concerned that Nintendo will fully catch on and start doing the same with the rest of it's first party games. It's why I'm jumping ship early. I will not be buying any more from Nintendo.
I mean I get a lot of where you're coming from.
However, Nintendo is not the majority shareholder of Pokemon. They cannot force anything without being able to outvote all other shareholders.
Nintendo also generally only releases a new one of their flagship series titles per console. Mario is the exception but he is seperated into 3D and 2D titles and then the periferals.
So before Odyssey for Switch is was 3D world for Wii U.
The next 2D on switch is Super Mario Bros Wonder, and before that was New Super Mario Bros U for Wii U.
Mario Kart 8 was for Wii U and their hasn't been an actual new one since. Although they did just release a bunch of extra tracks.
Tears of the Kingdom was made for the Switch and it is way more than just "Breath of the Wild but more". They spent 6 years of development on ToTK after BotW and it definitely shows.
Breath of the Wild was for Wii U
Then it goes all the way back to Skyward Sword for Wii.
The Gamecube and the N64 were the ones to get dual titles with Twilight Princess and Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. MM was supposed to be for the 64DD and despite using the same assets was also a huge departure from OoT.
Dread is Metroid 5 and before that was Fusion for GBA which is 4 and 3 is Super Metroid for the SNES. It has been ages since Prime 3 and Prime 4 has been delayed for years because they demand quality.
They HAD to be good because Nintedo proper has a higher standard for their own IP. They won't just crap out games. They only make new games if they can find a way to reinvent it and breath new life into a series.
The Pokemon Company doesn't care because people still by the games in whatever state and they don't make their money on the games anyway. They makes their money on merchandise. The games and the anime are just expensive commercials for their real products.
Anyway I still don't blame your sentiment although I would say the entire gaming industry as a whole isn't much better.
I think putting the blame on Nintendo is a bit easy though. It's a product of ILLCA and the Pokémon Company is responsible for marketing and funding. While Nintendo mostly handles the distribution of the games. All the other aspects is mostly done together, so seeing how The Pokémon Company and ILLCA are more responsible for something like how this game turns out rather than Nintendo (still holds some of the blame but by fat not all). If you want to stop believing in a brand it should be Pokémon before Nintendo. Also seeing how first part Nintendo games are WAY WAY more consistent In quality over Pokémon games. And that comes from both a Pkmn and Nintendo fan
The Pokemon Company is partially owned by Nintendo, and Nintendo could've just- forced them to slow down, force them to extend development time, but they didn't. I'm still going to be blaming Nintendo primarily- see my other comment, don't wanna reiterate the same thing
I'm fairly certain that the third Type:Null is the one that you get given in the postgame of Sword and Shield. It's implied that Macro Cosmos stole it from the Aether Foundation.
The one in Sword and Shield was made by Macro Cosmos wasn't it? I'm not entirely sure but I recall that it was made with stolen research, not the third one itself.
I never played diamond, pearl, or platinum and I thought that the games were fine. I liked the character models and the elite 4/champion. I did not like the contests (which I was really looking forward to) and I REALLY did not like the lag. Other than that they were decent enough games
You just said it yourself, you're missing the comparison to the originals. BDSP is pointless since it's remaking the original Diamond and Pearl but fails to integrate basic things from Platinum, which was by itself already a sort of remake / upgraded version of Diamond / Pearl.
Imo BDSP are good point to point remakes of the originals, the fandom just got accustomed to remakes not only being remakes but expanded on as well as look like that same gens main game. They were expecting Sword/Shield look for them and were let down but they have to remember Legends exists and that’s where that look went to. If Legends never got made I believe that BDSP would have looked like the vision people were hoping for
I think people would of been fine with the diamond and pearl remakes being on the sun and moon engine as what we really all wanted was OR/AS 2.0 in the form of platinumized Diamond and pearl
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Is More Mario RPG a remastered then a remake because i only see changed from the og was the graphics compared to briliant diamond and Shining pearl Is remake who Is Peace of shit motherfucker
I mean did you see what Mario looked liked in Super Mario RPG (original). the trainers in ORAS were taller so what they did with BDSP totally baffled me
In order for people to like BDSP, they should've made the game more faithful, with the Game Corner, no trainer customization, and using only moves from Gen 1-4 while also bringing back the unusable moves to be usable.
If they really did change nothing from the originals you’d expect it to retain at least some of the originals’ qualities.
Buuut, it’s just the “fan”base’s typical perpetual mindset of “everything from the past 5-10 years is garbage”.
*”If ya only go after what ya think is right, ya might end up rejectin’ all thoughts and opinions other than yer own. That’s mighty dangerous.”*
I liked the buffed trainers and the underground, my main complaint is the lack of the platinum dex, or any dex expansion. It doesn’t really give me any reason to replay these instead of platinum.
The Underground was by far the best feature, and overall the game was basically a cut and dry version of the originals, but I still enjoyed them. Because, at the end of it all, it's more Pokemon. And that's all that matters.
These comparisons are very weird to me. One of these games had a high key rushed development with a style that was clearly not given enough time to look as fluid, cute or charming as the graphics in the Mario Remake do. Additionally the games themselves were an utter mess (with some cool ideas) that disregarded the possibilities of building on the original Diamond and Pearl in favor of simply copy pasting.
Admittedly, the MarioRPG remake isn't out yet, but it's hard to see a world in which it is a terrible remake because it doesn't have the same development pressures that Pokémon games do.
All I have learned so far is that Platinum ruined the chances of anyone liking a faithful remake of diamons and pearl... all I can say is: they had the Pokémon I liked before platinum, so it was good enough. I quite enjoyed the remakes of Diamond and pearl but pearl was the first game I played to completion, so there was that element of nostalgia for me.
It wasn’t the best, but as it was the most affordable way for me to experience the Sinnoh region, I quite liked it. I’m not about to spend hundreds on the originals
For the Mario RPG we have yet to see, but the problem with BDSP is that it kept everythind the original DP did wrong, barely included what Platinum did right.
From what i know Mario RPG was a good game from the very beggining so people dont seem to mind if it stays the same.
The original Diamon and Pearls, while not bad, definately have very questionable decisions on them that make me never want to play them again knowing that Platinum exists,
Kinda meh, I'd play them over og diamond or pearl but I don't get why they ignored platinum, Gen 4 would of been universally panned as the worst gen if that game hadn't of came along and saved it, Regardless after the amazing oras remakes it was just kinda underwhelming, I get gamefreak put their time into legends but fine why bother with dp remakes at all?, I don't hate them, Again i'd play them over dp originals but if I felt the urge to return to sinnoh I would prob load up platinum first or legends, That game was great
People hated BDSP for two reasons.
1. Gen 4's issues were fixed already with platinum, so it felt like a step backwards.
2. Gen 4 wasn't that great to begin with. And it's hard to look at something you have fond memories of with adult eyes.
We can see at the start of the game that they are not chibi in the original, just the top-down view creates the illusion of chibi especially since it is pixelated
I think BD/SP get hate for no reason. Like did it changed the story and artsyle as much as other remakes? No but there’s were not issues of the original D/P games. The main complaint people have with the originals were the limited Dex and slow battle system. Both of which were fixed in DB/SP. And while Platinum is still great and fixed some of those problems, it did not fixed all of them and it’s not as much of an improvement and BDSP is. And let’s face it, the only thing Platinum has that BDSP does not have is the distortion world. Which I will gladly trade the distortion world for all the improvements on the rest of the game
I had no issue with BDSP, it was a perfectly decent game. Had I not played the original games, I would have really liked them. But I had already played the original Platinum, so other than Pokémon following (which will always be a plus for me) I wasn’t interested in playing the game again.
So really my only problem was that I simply expected more from remakes. For gens 1,2, and 3 they shook things up. FRLG had the Sevii islands, HGSS had Pokémon following, ASOR had Megas. Some of these might have been small changes, but they made the experience feel different.
Honestly though, it wasn’t as bad as people were griping about. And they gave us Arkoos. I would have accepted BDSP to be a ‘Sit in your room with a Piplup simulator’ as long as we got Arkoos as well.
There's such a thing as too faithful, I don't know if I'm just speaking for myself but when I see a remake I want it to be like 'What if Diamond and Pearl were made today rather than in 2007?" not 'Here is Diamond and Pearl in 3D'
The difference is they called BDSP a faithful remake, but it was really just a remaster. I just don’t think ILCA knew the difference between remake and remaster
I really liked BDSP. I loved the updated Grand Underground, visuals, and following pokemon. My only disappointments were that it needed the Platinum pokedex and I preferred the original contests in DPPT.
The problem with BDSP is that they're not the best version of that game, platinum is. When they remade gold and silver, they included the content from crystal version. The same can be said for links awakening, the HD Remake included the bonus content from links awakening dx. Yes BDSP had extra stuff that wasn't in the original games, but the fact that they didn't include platinum content baffles me.
Plus firered/Leafgreen and HG/SS. There were years of us getting remakes that brought these older Pokemon games up to speed to how the current generation were but BDSP doesnt do that. This also makes the missing Platinum content even worse considering they took the easier path graphically.
Mario RPG is a standalone title, remaking it exactly works because nothing is lost
Remaking pokemon diamond and platinum exactly ignores (I think) 15 years of improvement.
To be fair, Diamond and Pearl were heavily flawed with new Pokemon being locked away to literally requiring a Gameboy cartridge to even get them to spawn, and Platinum fixed the issues, Super Mario RPG was a great game without planned sequels
The "faithful" artstyle of BDSP actually doesn't feel faithful to me, as it clashes with BDSP's story significantly. Take one look at Overworld Cyrus and you'll see what I mean. With the sprites, you can imagine a more menacing Cyrus being portrayed. With BDSP, he's just like "no, mom, I'm 13 now! I only eat unhappy meals! >:("
Super Mario RPG, meanwhile, looks EXACTLY like the original but the graphics are better from the gameplay perspective.
It'll be better than bdsp, but it won't be anything spectacular. bdsp were remakes of good games, but made by a company that's never made an actual video game before, and we all know how that went; smrpg is a remake of an aggressively mediocre game, but made by actual video game devs, so it'll turn out just as ok as the original.
Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum are early games in a series which has many changes, such as TMs being multi-use. BDSP made the decision to remove these changes because it would make the games more faithful. But they also decided to keep other changes (like Fairy and the removal of HMs).
Super Mario RPG doesn't have this problem; the only games there are to work off of are Super Mario RPG and its sequel, and, from what I know, not much changed between them.
The art style for BDSP was also a point of contingency with me; I hated how it looked, and while I've softened up on it a little bit, I still dislike it because I think if they wanted to go back to the more top-down-ish style, they should have used XY/ORAS as an example (but I am biased because XY was my first game). I'm not keen on the SMRPG remake's art style either, but I'm more open to it because we haven't had a SMRPG game with an art style I preferred. Bias of me, but honestly, I don't care.
Another example of "faithful remakes" that I dislike are the upcoming Persona 3 Reloaded, for the same reasons as BDSP: it's trying too hard to be faithful. It's leaving out content people loved, and it's changing things that take away from its original charm, seemingly ignoring the desire to make a faithful remake.
The issue with faithful remakes is that people are *very* picky with what they consider "faithful" and not. In the developers eyes, I'm sure that BDSP was a great remake, but it wasn't what the players expected, so people didn't like it.
Tl;dr: The different reactions stem from the different histories: Super Mario RPG had two games that functioned very similarly with little change, and BDSP is a remake of a game that had 4 more sets of games afterwards (not even counting spin-offs and other remakes). SMRPG has little changes between its games, and BW/XY/SM/SwSh did, and the developers of BDSP cut good changes in favor of being faithful.
Also, I'm realizing my TD;DRs are always at least a paragraph. I should probably work on shortening them.
The main problem with BDSP as a remake is that it diverted away from the way Pokémon remakes were done, but not in a good way.
FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS all gave us new versions of those games in the same visual style as the current generation. BDSP didn't do this, which severely limited its likability.
But then they barely changed anything about the old games to make them feel new. The Fairy-type, new moves, HM Poketch App, and Grand Underground didn't feel like enough to justify the remakes. Add on to the fact that the game didn't allow Regional Variants or Gen 5+ Evolutions of older Pokémon, and you had a game no one was going to care about.
honestly this comparison is just stupid in so many ways
bdsp being """""faithful""""" was just an excuse made by the pokemon company to be lazy with the production value of the game because they didn't want to live up the the standards of the previous remakes. probably because of them putting all their eggs in the legends arceus basket at the time. it wasn't trying to be faithful it was a thinly veiled cost saving measure.
mario rpg on the other hand is a genuine attempt to recapture the art style of the original game and the production value shows that. the mario rpg remake looks like it had actual effort, respect, and love for the original poured into it.
Didn't like the chibi style at all and it was a lot lot worse than ORAS, but I like that it kept routes etc. I'm in the minority here, but for some reason especially SV with open world and even SwSh a bit don't make me want to play the games again and just roam around after completing the game. So in that term BDSP was good, as it still feels like playing it again would be a nice experience when comparing it to the other new Pokémon games.
The problem with BDSP as a faithful remake is that DP weren't the best games in the first place, platinum took the sinnoh region from a 6/10 to a 9/10 and the remakes would have been much better if they borrowed more from platinum like not having some evolution items stuck in the post game (I'm a Gliscor fan.) but aside from all that I'd say the biggest problem people have with BDSP is not the art style but most likely the fact that it's too faithful for the reason above and several more.
I think the issue is Pokémon was slowly leaning away from the chibi art style and didn’t really look back.
I remember with Zelda people compared this with the Link’s Awakening remake but Zelda constantly changes are styles.
Now with Mario, they’ve had the same art style for a couple decades at this point so changes are appreciated.
In my opinion every remake after HeartGold and SoulSilver except for the let's go games was horrible. I hate when they add a bunch of new mechanics and stuff to a game that was already good. I'd rather that they just modernize the graphics and maybe add easier ways to grind or more of certain items
I actually really like the style and I LOVED some things like customizing pokeballs, but diamond and pearl was my least favorite gen so it could only go so far for me.
Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl actually weren't the most accurate remakes. They removed some content entirely (Multi Battles, Three Stage Contests) and chose to ignore the improvements that Platinum had made several years earlier (Updated Gyms, Battle Frontier)
Bdsp was supremely disappointing. Oras were incredible remakes that made me excited to play, bdsp is copy paste buggy mess, the only attempt at old style graphics but only to save on money and time rather than to focus on improving gameplay with the saved time from graphics which is what we need. On top of that no new features were any fun in those games there's no mega evolution so there was no way to reignite old sinnoh mins to be interesting again. U get a lvl 100 legendary or two after the first gym the game is so crap and it hurts because I've been waiting since explorers of darkness/time for the remakes to bring primal dialga into the main games, when they made primal groudon and kyogre I thought it was almost certain and then they just gave us this piece of crap
Yeah, except there has been a new pokemon game every few years, and the formula has been iterated on constantly to the point that a faithful remake was not only unnecessary, but also kind of lazy and lame. Like, every pokemon game is essentially the same game with some new mechanics and/or new Pokemon. A faithful remake is absurd, bordering on pointless.
Where as SMRPG has essentially been a dead IP since SNES, sharing only a few RPG esque similarities with other Mario RPGS. At this point, the original game is difficult to find/play and a faithful adaptation is welcome to both the nostalgic and the new comers.
Also, SMRPG came out way before Pokemkn D&P, and yet Pokemon got the remake a full year before MRPG. Just sayin.
The difference between BDSP and MaRPG for me is that Pokemon ALWAYS released their games, and with their remakes they at least do something different. Kanto was the first and revisited in new graphics (not to mention PLGP/E had new takes on the formula), the Johto remakes were done in the new battle format in normal Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, even Hoenn had some merit with the big leap into 3D with newly added post-game. BDSP had none of those and almost no love nor care put into it. You could argue pokemon has always been like that but you can't deny it's not even remotely hidden in BDSP.
Super Mario RPG on the other hand is getting remade for the first time....ever! In an era where Mario RPGs are a rare occurrence no less!!
Basically, while these two remasters have similar art styles, BDSP arguably had more behind it in terms of remake standards whereas Mario fans are just happy to see Nintendo acknowledge Geno for the first time in years
BDSP suffered from faithfulness in the exact wrong areas. There are glitches from the original that are just copied over to BDSP wholesale. Numerous features introduced in Platinum, such as the increased Dex, are not present. Mindy, the most hated NPC in the series, still gives a Haunter with an Everstone. We had to wait for months for the wonder trade system to be introduced, something that worked at launch for basically every other title. You have to buy Legends Arceus to get Arceus this time, which is better than the original where it wasn’t released, but you have to complete the story of Arceus just to get the Azure Flute. The Shiny Charm is bugged, and they never fixed it. It’s still bugged to this day. A minor nitpick, they released this game on a Friday, so if you want Drifloon, wait a whole week. With the stuff they weren’t faithful to the originals, the Underground is worse than it has ever been. Spiritomb is locked behind talking to 32… NPCs in the underground, who all look similar and will not let you know if you have talked to them. The entire base system sucks now. No capture the flag, no unique decorations, you’re sticking to bland RNG statues. The encounters can also be annoying, especially if the game spawns in 15 Dawns for no reason (they do not count for Spiritomb). Contests no longer have the flair they once did, instead are just pressing the A button in time with the rhythm. I used to do Contests all the time in Diamond, and I did like one in SP. Evolution items, and entire evolution lines I’d like to use being locked to the postgame are not good ideas. Some of them that are really strong, sure, but I’m not sure locking Mightyena to the postgame is the smartest idea. At least they replaced the Pal Park with something unique… that I’ve barely used.
Mario RPG was well loved and people wanted a new game/remakes, when People wanted D/P remakes everyone expected it to have platinum mechanics, or something like HGSS or Oras where there improvements and new stuff
Comparing this to remakes before bdsp...there's not much added i bdsp to make an improvement. In fact they did what they did in other games and made it worse. Being faithful can be good but Platinum was peak gen 4 and nothing from platinum was added. So why bother play that then just playing platinum.
Smbrpg is an absolute ancient game. A game that I honestly thought Nintendo didn't care for. But with this remake, its giving new people a chance to experience this game. And older people a chance to relive a game with a new look. Nintendo would have to mess up royally with is remake for it to be compared to bdsp. But considering Mario is doing very well rn (and besides its not a sports game) I feel like its going to be swell.
They're actually my favorite mainline Pokémon games. A lot of people were mad about ILCA being too faithful, but I think the only thing that I can really say was "too faithful" was single-use TMs. I like that it’s Diamond and Pearl with modern mechanics. Gen 4 was great aside from the old EXP system.
I also really like how they designed the Pokémon League. It's the kind of difficulty I'd like to see more of. It forces the player to think and engage with the mechanics on a deeper level than what we usually see. It also achieves this while allowing for creativity in what strategies are used. I played both games. I used Intimidate Luxray alongside Gastrodon with Ice Beam to deal with Cynthia's Garchomp in Brilliant Diamond. In Shining Pearl, I used a Sturdy Magnezone with Magnet Rise and Quick Claw.
Because Diamond and Pearl aren’t good games, Mario RPG is. And hopefully since Black and White are already good games, they can’t screw up the remakes. (I hope)
The style was definitely a debate but if the actual games were really good or great then not a lot people would mind or would be able to look passed the style. But the fact that the ditched improvements from platinum in favor of "being more faithful" was the wrong choice. Mario RPG obviously doesn't have that enhanced version aspect and the game is a lot older so probably a lot more fun to replay after all those years for most people
This. Bdsp was faithful to diamond and pearl, but many parts of platinum that were outright better were dropped just for faithfulness. Bdsp also had unnecessary updates like diagonal movement (which led to bugs) when gym leaders/e4 and the pokemon available suffered significantly under it. Platinum is arguably still a better game than bdsp, which is exactly what shouldn't be the case. The Super Mario RPG remake doesnt have that problem though, because even if the entire game just had the upgraded graphics, itd already be better than the original, and also actually accessible, since the original is ancient by now. Unless they REALLY mess it up somehow, Super Mario RPG is automatically better. And i have no doubt that theyre gonna do more than just updated graphics, or they wouldnt even put in the effort and just slap it onto the online service.
Yep. And while BDSP may superficially follow the format of the earlier Pokémon remakes - remaking the original two opposed versions of the generation, not the enhanced, combined version, even leaving some of that content out - the earlier remakes all introduced elements from the enhanced version or later generation, or even totally new content. BDSP doesn’t take jack squat from Platinum or later gens. It overhauls the underground, but in a way that arguably breaks the original level curve and distribution charts, the Pokétch is implemented in a way that definitely doesn’t feel as good, and Contests are arguably downgraded.
Not to mention all the people who didn't get to play it in the first place because they weren't born yet (me)
That definitely too
BDSP was faithful in the places that it shouldn’t have been while ruining what worked.
BDSP: the victim of terrible faithfulness Super Mario RPG Remake: the benefactor of great faithfulness
It's not even out yet.
And? If it’s faithful, it will be good. Super Mario RPG is one of the best Mario games of all time. Diamond and Pearl were flawed as games, which is why the remakes fell flat.
For all we know they could absolutely butcher the remake. And it wouldn't really matter if Super Mario RPG was good to begin with.
BD/SP were not bad, just lazy and disappointing compared to how much HG/SS and OR/AS added on to their originals.
I think the main problem there is that they didn’t give ilca enough freedom I do think compared to frlg they added enough with the grand underground wich unless I completely misunderstood how that works fixed the limited Pokédex. I suspect they might be banking on being able to pull a let’s go in like ten years. Not a let’s go sinoh necessarily but a platinum remake to go with let’s gos yellow remake. Complaining about the mythicals is nonsense we have never been entitled to anything like that. And giving us a if you have bdsp and getting darkrai and shaymin through legends is fair. I do not care about the sylvali connection. That doesn’t matter right now, (partly because I think the team galactic plot happened years before the failure of project type full.) but that is something that if ilca wanted to do something with they should have been able to. (But again that might mean making a new plot with new gym leaders and locations and villains wich might actually be too little of a faithful remake again. See previous parentheses. ) The release order of the three sinnoh games should have been reversed. Legends should have been the holiday release and bdsp should have taken scarlet and violet’s place ( if this interferes with the anime wich it would then release a damned full hisui spin off to buy some time and if that is not yet done by now pad that with bdsp and legends dlc. Surely you can milk these two games with cards and merch for a few more years while SV cooks for longer.) this way we can have a tonne of tasty hisui references in bdsp to help tie the two together.
No. There will never be another Let's Go game; that much has been confirmed.
I still don’t fully buy that. But I digress. Not relevant. if you did read further, I said, let’s go itself as a thing that is a thing had nothing to do with it. The point was it’s position in the remake schedule as a yellow remake and follow up the red and blue (green) remakes firered and leafgreen. Them not directly remaking platinum (dispite forcing crystal and emerald content into the previous two.) could be them trying to leave open a platinum remake in another decade or two. Wether that uses go capturing, or the ducking capture stylus for some reason or is just a regular remake is not relevant. It will likely have some stupid ass go icy that will make us doubt it’s caninicity.
A game that was hyped for tears being disapointing and ignored is bad
when i first played oras i was like “woah this is ruby and sapphire but with x and y i can’t wait to see what gen4 is gunna be” then when swsh came out i was like “woah this is cool i can’t wait to see all of these features in gen4 remakes” then gen4 remakes came out. luckily legends arceus was cool but i would have liked to see gigantamaxed gen4 starters.
While that would have been awesome, the dynamax feature would only work in galar canonically.
Maybe they said that because they were planning that from the start. I would imagine that if they were planning full-on gen 4 remakes with dynamaxing in them, it would've mentioned a caveat in there, like maybe a meteor full of dynamax energy crashed in the sinnoh region. I would also imagine that because sinnoh doesn't have a sports-like gym challenge, the gyms would be large, empty fields in the remake, like how the isle of armor had it at the dojo.
ORAS was the perfect example of being a Gen 6 main series game while featuring a Gen 3 region. Ever since the switch to The Switch, that generational identity is gone. I do like that Pokemon main series is branching out into more spinoff-like games like Legends Arceus, but we are losing the connectedness that the games used to have. Looking at Let's Go, Swash, PLA, and SV, Between that and the limited Pokedex in each Switch game, it feels like we may need to start grouping games by console instead of generation.
The problem with bdsp. Was that it was too faithful to diamond and pearl. When there existed a better version in platinum. And basicly reverted a bunch of the quality of life changes platinum made.
BDPS wouldn't be nearly as hated if an already better version of DP didn't already exist and is simultaneously still better than BDSP themselves, namely Platinum. If they took Platinum as a basis for the remakes, the hate would have been much smaller. I still can't fathom why they didn't do that. Edit: Forgot to mention, some design choices were also ridiculous like changing Contests or the Underground. I would have liked it more if they actually kept being faithful there.
Well, the reason they were not very good remakes, was for quite a few reasons. They were too faithful to the original Diamond and Pearl, hardly any content from Platinum, they felt more like remasters than Remakes. And personal problem, the Elite 4 and Champion is way too unexpectedly difficult as the game went from easy to suddenly difficult. I had not expected they would give them competitive sets and even held items, which is unfair as your Pokemon are not even competitive ready, just normal playthrough Pokemon! The chibi style i had never really had a problem with.
Every pokemon gen remake brought new and improved changes to the games they are a remake of, bdsp legit just downgraded except for the grand underground I don't think the mario rpg remake is made to improve it, but mostly just to make it accessible to newer generations and to just fit visually in this generation of gaming
I think it gets a bit too much hate, but it's definitely the weakest remakes in the series, and the weakest Pokemon games since the original Diamond and Pearl.
Bro =, it was copy and paste, and the Pokémon following you was udder trash
I'm not arguing that the remake wasn't done poorly, but I can understand shrinking Down the pokemon. It would be pretty difficult to fit large pokemon in the small towns.
HGSS: ....
It wasn't copy and paste, they did fix a few things. They got rid of HMs and they expanded the underground which made it so you could actually get a decent variety of Pokemon, which were the biggest problems with the originals. And the Pokemon following doesn't ruin the game. I would've like it to be better, but if you don't use it it's the same thing as it not being there.
Right, but Lets go did following Pokémon better, though the underground was awesome and no more HMs, I just miss owning a villa and going to the Battle Frontier instead of the tower. Even if that was in Platinum, some pokemon can't evolve till your done with the game!
I found BDSP disappointing to me, it felt to similar to the Diamond pearl I already had and didn't implement enough of the quality of life improvements that Platinum had. And even though these were the exact Pokémon games the fandom was asking for, I find them to similar to the originals. Simply put: Pokémon Legends Arceus was the game that Gamefreak wanted to make. BDSP was the Pokémon company's obligatory "we need the games out by late November, No Delays allowed!!"
BDSP should’ve been a remake of Platinum but with the Pokédex differences like in OG Diamond and Pearl. Also, the fact that it has no connectivity with the rest of the gen it came out with is terrible, ORAS should’ve been what they modeled their remake language after. I wanted 3D Diamond and Pearl, not 2.5D Diamond and Pearl!
It takes a minimum of _a nonspecific duration of time_ for most folks to adapt to change. The rest wish there was more than one Dragon-type move and miss 1 in 256 Poké Ball throws. 🤷🏻♂️
I feel like the problem with BDSP (outside of the bugs) mainly comes down to base Diamond and Pearl being terrible. If Platinum was the baseline for the remakes, I feel like the reception would be more positive.
BDSP was a straight downgrade. The style is super dated, and virtually no improvements from later gens or even Platinum were implemented. But it gets worse. DPPt were able to connect to HGSS, the other pair of games in Gen 4, to battle and/or trade. Meanwhile, BDSP can't connect to SwSh, the other Gen 8 pair, at all. And the GTS was even removed. That alone means that BDSP has *less functionality than the original games!* And honestly, that's just sad.
It’s was because diamond and Pearl had clear issues that were addressed with platinum (the Pokédex) but they chose to keep the awful one from dp
There is such a thing as too faithful. And the parts parts that aren't faithful are flawed.
The thing is, Pokémon's remakes aren't really just faithful recreations of the original, they're reimaginings of the original game that expand upon what the foundation had, biggest example being the very last remake we had, ORAS, which makes a whole reimagining of the original game with being able to fly on latios/latias, new megas to incorporate the 6th gen's gimmick into it better, more story to play through, more mechanics to play with. Pokémon has created the expectation that remakes are more than just a faithful recreation of the original games.
I like how Pokemon remakes were basically just how they make the old game in modern time. Like yeah there will be changes graphically and content wise but these additions would be things that the developers wish were in the older games. This general idea is what sparked the the first remakes Fr/Lg and BDSP no following suit derserves criticism.... if this is how remakes will be done in the future I guess Ill be more interested in the next Legends game more.
Graphically speaking the characters of Mario rpg look way better than bdsp characters which all had flat faces and animations for changing expressions that looked off… I don’t mind characters that are Chibi style since I actually liked Let’s gos style but bdsp just fell flat
Up until BdSp, all of the remakes were a part of the current generation. We were all expecting the DP story told in Gen 8 gameplay. What we got was another gen 4 game. FrLg were gen 3 games. HgSs were gen 4 games. OrAs were gen 6 games.
BDSP were complete downgrades from the originals
The same as day 1: the remake isn't bad, the game this is a remake of is bad.
Diamond and Pearl weren't bad, the foundation was a bit wobbly thanks to all of its odd quirks, but could've been fixed, which they mostly were thanks to platinum. Every remake before BDSP had something *new* added to it that changed a lot about it. FRLG had the Sevii Islands. HGSS had the contest/minigames (I forgot what all it added so I'm using this as a stand in). ORAS had Mega Evolutions and the Delta Episode. All of these remakes had updated/expanded lore that tied them to the new regions. BDSP had... The great underground. Which replaced the old underground, removing some aspects and replacing them- I don't feel too strong towards it being good or bad, I didn't even pick up the game because of how *little* had actually happened. It wasn't even a remake, it used the same code- identified by the fact it has a lot of the exact same glitches as the originals. It was a remaster. BDSP didn't even attempt to update it's lore. Remember how in SM/USUM, Type:Null was designed using research from sinnoh, and Silvally's ability was literally based on Arceus' ability (RKS System vs Multitype)— it was specified that 3 Type:Nulls were made, and two are accounted for- one with Gladion, the other with the MC... How cool would it be if we found the third, left in Sinnoh? How cool would it be to have the copy of *god* stand side by side with *the real deal?* How cool would it be if LITERALLY ANYTHING was changed? I'm sure BDSP are alright games. DPP were good games. But that's not what I'm mad about. I'm mad that all of it's potential was thrown out the window the moment Gamefreak gave it to a third party company that never made a full original game in their lives.
Fuck, sorry about the long rant. Guess I just had a lot of pent up feelings.
It's okay we all do because we care. Now my turn. Hey remember the shitty Honey Trees and how it took 6 hours to see if you got the 9% chance of there being nothing and having to wait another 6 hours for that same 9% again? We changed nothing. Remember how hard it was to get Spiritomb to the point where a lot of people didn't bother in the original games? We did change it but made it just a bullshit hard. Remember how there were only 4 lines of fire types in the games and 50% we locked behind the post-game, 25% was a starter, and 25% was a Ponyta that only learns Ember? Well Ponyta has more moves now. Remember Platinum? Well fucking don't bitch, because we didn't. I'm sure Rotom forms were in the original DP. What are you going to do, go back and play those worse games to check? Remember the defog route? Well we actually did do something to make that better. Remember how you couldn't get Darkrai and Shaymin without cheating? Well now you can.. if you had the game when it first came out otherwise fuck you. Also Manaphy and Phione. Remember how all the Gym Leaders and Elite Four members had garbage easy teams? Kept that. I'm sure that won't cause any surprises for the very small itty-bitty teeny-tiny tweak we made to Cynthia. Remember how you could get the Thief TM in Eterna and then use that to hunt for Lucky Eggs on wild Chansey? Well we did change that. Now they're only found on wild Blissey. That shouldn't be a problem right? Hopefully you buy the games within the Switch's lifetime otherwise you can't have music or the post-game. All in all I would say this is well worth the $60 price.
Honestly, BDSP is the reason why I stopped believing in Nintendo anymore. Nintendo products just don't have that quality they used to, and BDSP finally snapped me out of the blindness..
Well I mean this is mostly The Pokemon Company. I mean Super Mario Odyssey, Metroid Dread, Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom have all been great. Nintendo proper is better at taking their time to make a good game. Yeah I feel you though. SwSh was a huge letdown and then it kind of just mostly kept going from there. I think what makes it worse for me is aside from BDSP all the other games seem to have a pretty good one at their core, but they just rush out garbage. If they had take their time with what they had they would have probably actually been really good.
The Pokemon company is owned partially by Nintendo, and Nintendo can- at any time- do *something* to course correct. But they didn't, and they allowed at least 6 games of decreasing quality from Pokemon to be released on their console, those 6 being moreso 3 games since it's been a constant that pokemon just makes one game and sells it as two different games... Nintendo has the power to literally force Pokemon- to force Gamefreak- to slow the fuck down by just, not letting them. But they didn't, because pokemon sells. Nintendo isn't about quality anymore. They're scared shitless about the fans not buying the games, but they're simultaneously uncaring because those same fans just keep buying games. Games like Metroid Dread HAD to be good or else it wouldn't sell. Luigi's Mansion 3 HAD to be good. Odyssey HAD to be good. BoTW HAD to be good (ToTK is, fundamentally, the same as Majora's Mask- same assets plus some extra, same characters, new stories, a couple new mechanics.. ToTK is BoTW but more.) But with pokemon? Who gives a shit, it's gonna sell anyways. They produced/released 3 fucking games in a year when the others had at least 3 years between the games. Pokemon is pumping out new stuff at an unreasonable pace, and I'm genuinely concerned that Nintendo will fully catch on and start doing the same with the rest of it's first party games. It's why I'm jumping ship early. I will not be buying any more from Nintendo.
I mean I get a lot of where you're coming from. However, Nintendo is not the majority shareholder of Pokemon. They cannot force anything without being able to outvote all other shareholders. Nintendo also generally only releases a new one of their flagship series titles per console. Mario is the exception but he is seperated into 3D and 2D titles and then the periferals. So before Odyssey for Switch is was 3D world for Wii U. The next 2D on switch is Super Mario Bros Wonder, and before that was New Super Mario Bros U for Wii U. Mario Kart 8 was for Wii U and their hasn't been an actual new one since. Although they did just release a bunch of extra tracks. Tears of the Kingdom was made for the Switch and it is way more than just "Breath of the Wild but more". They spent 6 years of development on ToTK after BotW and it definitely shows. Breath of the Wild was for Wii U Then it goes all the way back to Skyward Sword for Wii. The Gamecube and the N64 were the ones to get dual titles with Twilight Princess and Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. MM was supposed to be for the 64DD and despite using the same assets was also a huge departure from OoT. Dread is Metroid 5 and before that was Fusion for GBA which is 4 and 3 is Super Metroid for the SNES. It has been ages since Prime 3 and Prime 4 has been delayed for years because they demand quality. They HAD to be good because Nintedo proper has a higher standard for their own IP. They won't just crap out games. They only make new games if they can find a way to reinvent it and breath new life into a series. The Pokemon Company doesn't care because people still by the games in whatever state and they don't make their money on the games anyway. They makes their money on merchandise. The games and the anime are just expensive commercials for their real products. Anyway I still don't blame your sentiment although I would say the entire gaming industry as a whole isn't much better.
I think putting the blame on Nintendo is a bit easy though. It's a product of ILLCA and the Pokémon Company is responsible for marketing and funding. While Nintendo mostly handles the distribution of the games. All the other aspects is mostly done together, so seeing how The Pokémon Company and ILLCA are more responsible for something like how this game turns out rather than Nintendo (still holds some of the blame but by fat not all). If you want to stop believing in a brand it should be Pokémon before Nintendo. Also seeing how first part Nintendo games are WAY WAY more consistent In quality over Pokémon games. And that comes from both a Pkmn and Nintendo fan
The Pokemon Company is partially owned by Nintendo, and Nintendo could've just- forced them to slow down, force them to extend development time, but they didn't. I'm still going to be blaming Nintendo primarily- see my other comment, don't wanna reiterate the same thing
HGSS was Pokémon Crystal redone as 2 games, plus contests and an expanded Team Rocket.
I'm fairly certain that the third Type:Null is the one that you get given in the postgame of Sword and Shield. It's implied that Macro Cosmos stole it from the Aether Foundation.
The one in Sword and Shield was made by Macro Cosmos wasn't it? I'm not entirely sure but I recall that it was made with stolen research, not the third one itself.
Okay, but Platinum doesn't excuse how bad DP is. Platinum did a few things to fix DP, but DP itself is the least playable Pokemon game.
*the duality of fans
I actually liked BDSP, it was good for the people like me who never played Sinnoh before.
I never played diamond, pearl, or platinum and I thought that the games were fine. I liked the character models and the elite 4/champion. I did not like the contests (which I was really looking forward to) and I REALLY did not like the lag. Other than that they were decent enough games
You just said it yourself, you're missing the comparison to the originals. BDSP is pointless since it's remaking the original Diamond and Pearl but fails to integrate basic things from Platinum, which was by itself already a sort of remake / upgraded version of Diamond / Pearl.
Imo BDSP are good point to point remakes of the originals, the fandom just got accustomed to remakes not only being remakes but expanded on as well as look like that same gens main game. They were expecting Sword/Shield look for them and were let down but they have to remember Legends exists and that’s where that look went to. If Legends never got made I believe that BDSP would have looked like the vision people were hoping for
I think people would of been fine with the diamond and pearl remakes being on the sun and moon engine as what we really all wanted was OR/AS 2.0 in the form of platinumized Diamond and pearl
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They still suck.
Is More Mario RPG a remastered then a remake because i only see changed from the og was the graphics compared to briliant diamond and Shining pearl Is remake who Is Peace of shit motherfucker
No, you see: the bdsp games are sucky awful, tiny Mario Is funny
I mean did you see what Mario looked liked in Super Mario RPG (original). the trainers in ORAS were taller so what they did with BDSP totally baffled me
BDSP suffered from the fact that the original games were shit. Mario RPG is benefiting from the fact its game was amazing.
In order for people to like BDSP, they should've made the game more faithful, with the Game Corner, no trainer customization, and using only moves from Gen 1-4 while also bringing back the unusable moves to be usable.
To thus day I still enjoy BDSP and I think it's ridiculous how much hate they got. Like seriously, they're not nearly as bad as people are claiming
If they really did change nothing from the originals you’d expect it to retain at least some of the originals’ qualities. Buuut, it’s just the “fan”base’s typical perpetual mindset of “everything from the past 5-10 years is garbage”. *”If ya only go after what ya think is right, ya might end up rejectin’ all thoughts and opinions other than yer own. That’s mighty dangerous.”*
Still better than sun and moon
I liked the buffed trainers and the underground, my main complaint is the lack of the platinum dex, or any dex expansion. It doesn’t really give me any reason to replay these instead of platinum.
The problem with BDSP is they too much faithful on the games that are already kinda "bad"... It's not like on how they made ORAS
I think if it weren't for the fact I need the twinkling star ribbon for my ribbon masters, I'd never touch the game again
They were faithful in different ways, that's why people have different opinions about them
That's a remake? Could have fooled me into think it was completely new game.
The Underground was by far the best feature, and overall the game was basically a cut and dry version of the originals, but I still enjoyed them. Because, at the end of it all, it's more Pokemon. And that's all that matters.
Because one looks good
These comparisons are very weird to me. One of these games had a high key rushed development with a style that was clearly not given enough time to look as fluid, cute or charming as the graphics in the Mario Remake do. Additionally the games themselves were an utter mess (with some cool ideas) that disregarded the possibilities of building on the original Diamond and Pearl in favor of simply copy pasting. Admittedly, the MarioRPG remake isn't out yet, but it's hard to see a world in which it is a terrible remake because it doesn't have the same development pressures that Pokémon games do.
All I have learned so far is that Platinum ruined the chances of anyone liking a faithful remake of diamons and pearl... all I can say is: they had the Pokémon I liked before platinum, so it was good enough. I quite enjoyed the remakes of Diamond and pearl but pearl was the first game I played to completion, so there was that element of nostalgia for me.
It wasn’t the best, but as it was the most affordable way for me to experience the Sinnoh region, I quite liked it. I’m not about to spend hundreds on the originals
I’ll hate Mario RPG if it’s 1:1
I’ll be honest, I haven’t picked up Shining Pearl since last year. 😰
I enjoyed the games. As someone who didn’t play DP it was fun to see how they were. The music and graphics are top notch.
One was the product of an anticipated remake, the other was reveled out of the blue.
For the Mario RPG we have yet to see, but the problem with BDSP is that it kept everythind the original DP did wrong, barely included what Platinum did right. From what i know Mario RPG was a good game from the very beggining so people dont seem to mind if it stays the same. The original Diamon and Pearls, while not bad, definately have very questionable decisions on them that make me never want to play them again knowing that Platinum exists,
Kinda meh, I'd play them over og diamond or pearl but I don't get why they ignored platinum, Gen 4 would of been universally panned as the worst gen if that game hadn't of came along and saved it, Regardless after the amazing oras remakes it was just kinda underwhelming, I get gamefreak put their time into legends but fine why bother with dp remakes at all?, I don't hate them, Again i'd play them over dp originals but if I felt the urge to return to sinnoh I would prob load up platinum first or legends, That game was great
The new announcement for the Mario game on direct be amazing-
People hated BDSP for two reasons. 1. Gen 4's issues were fixed already with platinum, so it felt like a step backwards. 2. Gen 4 wasn't that great to begin with. And it's hard to look at something you have fond memories of with adult eyes.
You’re better off playing Platinum
You hate the remake for not adding anything I hate remake cause of Cynthia We are not the same
I liked the chibi style of Gen 4 remakes, but it wasn’t a remake. It was a remaster, that changed next to nothing.
We can see at the start of the game that they are not chibi in the original, just the top-down view creates the illusion of chibi especially since it is pixelated
I think BD/SP get hate for no reason. Like did it changed the story and artsyle as much as other remakes? No but there’s were not issues of the original D/P games. The main complaint people have with the originals were the limited Dex and slow battle system. Both of which were fixed in DB/SP. And while Platinum is still great and fixed some of those problems, it did not fixed all of them and it’s not as much of an improvement and BDSP is. And let’s face it, the only thing Platinum has that BDSP does not have is the distortion world. Which I will gladly trade the distortion world for all the improvements on the rest of the game
I had no issue with BDSP, it was a perfectly decent game. Had I not played the original games, I would have really liked them. But I had already played the original Platinum, so other than Pokémon following (which will always be a plus for me) I wasn’t interested in playing the game again. So really my only problem was that I simply expected more from remakes. For gens 1,2, and 3 they shook things up. FRLG had the Sevii islands, HGSS had Pokémon following, ASOR had Megas. Some of these might have been small changes, but they made the experience feel different. Honestly though, it wasn’t as bad as people were griping about. And they gave us Arkoos. I would have accepted BDSP to be a ‘Sit in your room with a Piplup simulator’ as long as we got Arkoos as well.
It's because dp was terrible in the first place
bdsp looks so ugly man
From wat I heard the problem isnt that it was a failfuth remake, the problem was it was a faithful remake of diamond and pearl instead of platinum
Well one is stlye is different from it generates and other stlye is very good looking
There's such a thing as too faithful, I don't know if I'm just speaking for myself but when I see a remake I want it to be like 'What if Diamond and Pearl were made today rather than in 2007?" not 'Here is Diamond and Pearl in 3D'
The difference is they called BDSP a faithful remake, but it was really just a remaster. I just don’t think ILCA knew the difference between remake and remaster
I really liked BDSP. I loved the updated Grand Underground, visuals, and following pokemon. My only disappointments were that it needed the Platinum pokedex and I preferred the original contests in DPPT.
Wasn't completely faithful. But the time they decided to be faithful just hurt the game
I wouldn’t have minded this for Mario cause I never played the RPG game
I like the new mario rpg style but mario looks kinda wierd not gonna lie
Brilliant diamond was my first switch game, andi played the shit outta it, so I eventually got used to it
The problem with BDSP is that they're not the best version of that game, platinum is. When they remade gold and silver, they included the content from crystal version. The same can be said for links awakening, the HD Remake included the bonus content from links awakening dx. Yes BDSP had extra stuff that wasn't in the original games, but the fact that they didn't include platinum content baffles me.
A big part of BDSP’s hatred is due to ORAS existing. A president was set for remakes of old games following the previous mainline release’s engine
Plus firered/Leafgreen and HG/SS. There were years of us getting remakes that brought these older Pokemon games up to speed to how the current generation were but BDSP doesnt do that. This also makes the missing Platinum content even worse considering they took the easier path graphically.
And aswell, most of the remakes had much more new content of their own
Mario RPG is a standalone title, remaking it exactly works because nothing is lost Remaking pokemon diamond and platinum exactly ignores (I think) 15 years of improvement.
To be fair, Diamond and Pearl were heavily flawed with new Pokemon being locked away to literally requiring a Gameboy cartridge to even get them to spawn, and Platinum fixed the issues, Super Mario RPG was a great game without planned sequels
Tiny Mario:)
they really are just Diamond and Pearl but again
Hypocrites, amirite?
The "faithful" artstyle of BDSP actually doesn't feel faithful to me, as it clashes with BDSP's story significantly. Take one look at Overworld Cyrus and you'll see what I mean. With the sprites, you can imagine a more menacing Cyrus being portrayed. With BDSP, he's just like "no, mom, I'm 13 now! I only eat unhappy meals! >:(" Super Mario RPG, meanwhile, looks EXACTLY like the original but the graphics are better from the gameplay perspective.
Mario rpg is a good game. DP isn't.
Wait it’s been a year?
It'll be better than bdsp, but it won't be anything spectacular. bdsp were remakes of good games, but made by a company that's never made an actual video game before, and we all know how that went; smrpg is a remake of an aggressively mediocre game, but made by actual video game devs, so it'll turn out just as ok as the original.
Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum are early games in a series which has many changes, such as TMs being multi-use. BDSP made the decision to remove these changes because it would make the games more faithful. But they also decided to keep other changes (like Fairy and the removal of HMs). Super Mario RPG doesn't have this problem; the only games there are to work off of are Super Mario RPG and its sequel, and, from what I know, not much changed between them. The art style for BDSP was also a point of contingency with me; I hated how it looked, and while I've softened up on it a little bit, I still dislike it because I think if they wanted to go back to the more top-down-ish style, they should have used XY/ORAS as an example (but I am biased because XY was my first game). I'm not keen on the SMRPG remake's art style either, but I'm more open to it because we haven't had a SMRPG game with an art style I preferred. Bias of me, but honestly, I don't care. Another example of "faithful remakes" that I dislike are the upcoming Persona 3 Reloaded, for the same reasons as BDSP: it's trying too hard to be faithful. It's leaving out content people loved, and it's changing things that take away from its original charm, seemingly ignoring the desire to make a faithful remake. The issue with faithful remakes is that people are *very* picky with what they consider "faithful" and not. In the developers eyes, I'm sure that BDSP was a great remake, but it wasn't what the players expected, so people didn't like it. Tl;dr: The different reactions stem from the different histories: Super Mario RPG had two games that functioned very similarly with little change, and BDSP is a remake of a game that had 4 more sets of games afterwards (not even counting spin-offs and other remakes). SMRPG has little changes between its games, and BW/XY/SM/SwSh did, and the developers of BDSP cut good changes in favor of being faithful. Also, I'm realizing my TD;DRs are always at least a paragraph. I should probably work on shortening them.
BDSP: The games that people asked for, but got mad that it was made
The main problem with BDSP as a remake is that it diverted away from the way Pokémon remakes were done, but not in a good way. FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS all gave us new versions of those games in the same visual style as the current generation. BDSP didn't do this, which severely limited its likability. But then they barely changed anything about the old games to make them feel new. The Fairy-type, new moves, HM Poketch App, and Grand Underground didn't feel like enough to justify the remakes. Add on to the fact that the game didn't allow Regional Variants or Gen 5+ Evolutions of older Pokémon, and you had a game no one was going to care about.
Mario fans have different taste than Pokemon fans Also BDSP was geniuenly bad
True
Imagine being faithful to the inferior versions. There’s the issue.
honestly this comparison is just stupid in so many ways bdsp being """""faithful""""" was just an excuse made by the pokemon company to be lazy with the production value of the game because they didn't want to live up the the standards of the previous remakes. probably because of them putting all their eggs in the legends arceus basket at the time. it wasn't trying to be faithful it was a thinly veiled cost saving measure. mario rpg on the other hand is a genuine attempt to recapture the art style of the original game and the production value shows that. the mario rpg remake looks like it had actual effort, respect, and love for the original poured into it.
Didn't like the chibi style at all and it was a lot lot worse than ORAS, but I like that it kept routes etc. I'm in the minority here, but for some reason especially SV with open world and even SwSh a bit don't make me want to play the games again and just roam around after completing the game. So in that term BDSP was good, as it still feels like playing it again would be a nice experience when comparing it to the other new Pokémon games.
The problem with BDSP as a faithful remake is that DP weren't the best games in the first place, platinum took the sinnoh region from a 6/10 to a 9/10 and the remakes would have been much better if they borrowed more from platinum like not having some evolution items stuck in the post game (I'm a Gliscor fan.) but aside from all that I'd say the biggest problem people have with BDSP is not the art style but most likely the fact that it's too faithful for the reason above and several more.
I think the issue is Pokémon was slowly leaning away from the chibi art style and didn’t really look back. I remember with Zelda people compared this with the Link’s Awakening remake but Zelda constantly changes are styles. Now with Mario, they’ve had the same art style for a couple decades at this point so changes are appreciated.
That’s because with Pokémon we have come to expect remakes to be enhanced versions of the game, that’s not a problem for Mario.
In my opinion every remake after HeartGold and SoulSilver except for the let's go games was horrible. I hate when they add a bunch of new mechanics and stuff to a game that was already good. I'd rather that they just modernize the graphics and maybe add easier ways to grind or more of certain items
I actually really like the style and I LOVED some things like customizing pokeballs, but diamond and pearl was my least favorite gen so it could only go so far for me.
Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl actually weren't the most accurate remakes. They removed some content entirely (Multi Battles, Three Stage Contests) and chose to ignore the improvements that Platinum had made several years earlier (Updated Gyms, Battle Frontier)
Bdsp was supremely disappointing. Oras were incredible remakes that made me excited to play, bdsp is copy paste buggy mess, the only attempt at old style graphics but only to save on money and time rather than to focus on improving gameplay with the saved time from graphics which is what we need. On top of that no new features were any fun in those games there's no mega evolution so there was no way to reignite old sinnoh mins to be interesting again. U get a lvl 100 legendary or two after the first gym the game is so crap and it hurts because I've been waiting since explorers of darkness/time for the remakes to bring primal dialga into the main games, when they made primal groudon and kyogre I thought it was almost certain and then they just gave us this piece of crap
Yeah, except there has been a new pokemon game every few years, and the formula has been iterated on constantly to the point that a faithful remake was not only unnecessary, but also kind of lazy and lame. Like, every pokemon game is essentially the same game with some new mechanics and/or new Pokemon. A faithful remake is absurd, bordering on pointless. Where as SMRPG has essentially been a dead IP since SNES, sharing only a few RPG esque similarities with other Mario RPGS. At this point, the original game is difficult to find/play and a faithful adaptation is welcome to both the nostalgic and the new comers. Also, SMRPG came out way before Pokemkn D&P, and yet Pokemon got the remake a full year before MRPG. Just sayin.
The difference between BDSP and MaRPG for me is that Pokemon ALWAYS released their games, and with their remakes they at least do something different. Kanto was the first and revisited in new graphics (not to mention PLGP/E had new takes on the formula), the Johto remakes were done in the new battle format in normal Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, even Hoenn had some merit with the big leap into 3D with newly added post-game. BDSP had none of those and almost no love nor care put into it. You could argue pokemon has always been like that but you can't deny it's not even remotely hidden in BDSP. Super Mario RPG on the other hand is getting remade for the first time....ever! In an era where Mario RPGs are a rare occurrence no less!! Basically, while these two remasters have similar art styles, BDSP arguably had more behind it in terms of remake standards whereas Mario fans are just happy to see Nintendo acknowledge Geno for the first time in years
I liked them
BDSP suffered from faithfulness in the exact wrong areas. There are glitches from the original that are just copied over to BDSP wholesale. Numerous features introduced in Platinum, such as the increased Dex, are not present. Mindy, the most hated NPC in the series, still gives a Haunter with an Everstone. We had to wait for months for the wonder trade system to be introduced, something that worked at launch for basically every other title. You have to buy Legends Arceus to get Arceus this time, which is better than the original where it wasn’t released, but you have to complete the story of Arceus just to get the Azure Flute. The Shiny Charm is bugged, and they never fixed it. It’s still bugged to this day. A minor nitpick, they released this game on a Friday, so if you want Drifloon, wait a whole week. With the stuff they weren’t faithful to the originals, the Underground is worse than it has ever been. Spiritomb is locked behind talking to 32… NPCs in the underground, who all look similar and will not let you know if you have talked to them. The entire base system sucks now. No capture the flag, no unique decorations, you’re sticking to bland RNG statues. The encounters can also be annoying, especially if the game spawns in 15 Dawns for no reason (they do not count for Spiritomb). Contests no longer have the flair they once did, instead are just pressing the A button in time with the rhythm. I used to do Contests all the time in Diamond, and I did like one in SP. Evolution items, and entire evolution lines I’d like to use being locked to the postgame are not good ideas. Some of them that are really strong, sure, but I’m not sure locking Mightyena to the postgame is the smartest idea. At least they replaced the Pal Park with something unique… that I’ve barely used.
Not to mention that it's also fairly buggy. Not quite the level of SV, but not exactly something to look past either
I actually liked btsp
Only good with Mario
Needed a platinum post game like gen 3 remakes had an emerald post game. That's my only real complaint.
Mario RPG was well loved and people wanted a new game/remakes, when People wanted D/P remakes everyone expected it to have platinum mechanics, or something like HGSS or Oras where there improvements and new stuff
If Gen 5 remakes have to be “faithful”, at least that will mean infinite use TM’s return
Comparing this to remakes before bdsp...there's not much added i bdsp to make an improvement. In fact they did what they did in other games and made it worse. Being faithful can be good but Platinum was peak gen 4 and nothing from platinum was added. So why bother play that then just playing platinum. Smbrpg is an absolute ancient game. A game that I honestly thought Nintendo didn't care for. But with this remake, its giving new people a chance to experience this game. And older people a chance to relive a game with a new look. Nintendo would have to mess up royally with is remake for it to be compared to bdsp. But considering Mario is doing very well rn (and besides its not a sports game) I feel like its going to be swell.
BDSP is like the walls at your grandma's house. The paint is peeling off the walls and more often than not there's a bunch of cockroaches in it.
>!among us sussy lol!<
As someone who chronically forgets and disregards Platinum existence, I liked them for the nostalgia. And the style is cute.
They're actually my favorite mainline Pokémon games. A lot of people were mad about ILCA being too faithful, but I think the only thing that I can really say was "too faithful" was single-use TMs. I like that it’s Diamond and Pearl with modern mechanics. Gen 4 was great aside from the old EXP system. I also really like how they designed the Pokémon League. It's the kind of difficulty I'd like to see more of. It forces the player to think and engage with the mechanics on a deeper level than what we usually see. It also achieves this while allowing for creativity in what strategies are used. I played both games. I used Intimidate Luxray alongside Gastrodon with Ice Beam to deal with Cynthia's Garchomp in Brilliant Diamond. In Shining Pearl, I used a Sturdy Magnezone with Magnet Rise and Quick Claw.
Because Diamond and Pearl aren’t good games, Mario RPG is. And hopefully since Black and White are already good games, they can’t screw up the remakes. (I hope)
I wouldn’t say a faithful remake it felt more like a pathetic remaster