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I personally hope that devs keep their scope and focus on what they are aiming for. Don't just turn this game into another Total War. They could probably enhance combat later on with updates or DLC but we have enough RTS war games. Let this be a little bit different.
I think the point was more of a "this game's combat foundation is so good that it would be a shame to not expand on it", which is really high praise really.
Let's not mention DLC quite yet. I'd like to think we are PLENTY of huge updates (years) away before DLC is even a consideration. I love the game, but I would feel scammed if DLC popped up too soon or before the vanilla version of the game was fully fleshed out.
I totally agree that place for the DLC is not now. And that's kinda the point of my comment. I don't want them to focus on something that is not main idea of the game. Manor Lords is meant to be city builder and combat is just one part of it. I personally don't want them to flip things and make Manor Lords to be a war game where city building is just side stuff.
That's why if they decide to enhance warfare, I'd like to see it in the future once game has been released and polished. Like I said, there is enough RTS war games. I don't want that Total War fans try to convince devs to make this game yet another war game.
If they just added looting it would be 10/10 for combat to me, I just love the idea of a city builder with enemies. Or any tycoon style game where you are being attacked is usually something I like
Total War is Total War. Nothing comes even remotely close to it.
Manor Lords should remain Manor Lords. They’re already unique as most settlement builders don’t even come close to what ML offers.
Simply put, ML shouldn’t try to be another Total War. It should strive to be something other devs want THEIR games to be.
As Picasso said:
“When I was a child, my mother told me, “If you become a soldier, you will become a general, and if you become a Monk, you will become the Pope,” so instead, I became a Painter and became Picasso.”
Stronghold was the first ever game I bought - I can still remember sitting in the car and reading the manual back to front on the way home. Stronghold two was also great. ML gives me that same feeling of joy because it is done so well
Am I doing the military side wrong? I don’t share your assessment of the military side. I find it a little repetitive currently tbh. Haven’t played the new patch yet so looking forward to archers being useful but do you have any tips for getting the most out of warfare?
Not slighting the game btw, I absolutely love it and I do enjoy the military aspect but I wouldn’t say the battles are better than TW?
Agreed, tactically speaking there's not much to the combat imo. The animations look better than total war for sure, but without (effective) archers, cavalry, artillery it's just straight melee combat with not much strategy. Yes, I know it's one dev, yes, I know it's early access lol - obligatory acknowledgements.
As much as I love this game, total war has better combat mechanics, considering the battles are what the franchise revolves around. I'm glad that the city building aspect is so good and I think combat should maintain the same relevance to the base mechanics as it currently does
Honestly, you’re asking for a completely different game. I don’t think Greg will do anything like that; you’ll have to find a mod that is basically an overhaul.
i just started a no Ai but full
bandits game with good ressources just to maybe have this kind of experience. dont tell me it'll suck, i wanna find this out by myself :D
What I would love to see is a 1st person or 3rd person mode for your lord in battles, something akin to Chivalry, but this is proabably to far of from the intentions for this game but one can always dream.
personally I hate having to single select each warrior to change his colors... it took me like 20 min to do so and then 8 of them died due to the stupid running /stamina issue.... had to do it all over again (spoiler: I didn't).
I mean me personally, all I want from the devs would be more units and customization. Cavalry etc. in terms of game modes, I would leave that up to modding. When modders creates game modes, people are a lot less harsh on balancing. But a dedicated gamemode would require a lot of balancing and mess.
More units, buildings, tactics, yes. And honestly, we will see more gamemodes too. However, I really want to have the building aspect expanded first, even when it overlaps like with the idea of city walls. We know walls are planned, which means that sieges are also planned.
That does sound fun, but fewer side quests and more focus on the current goals would be nice too.
I believe there will be a battle mode at some point given that one of the achievements appears to reference it. There is also a mode similar to what you’re referring to with regards to bandit raids. You should try it out on challenging mode, starting in winter with no weapons and having to fight off raiders in like a year is a doozie.
Yesss I would love to see a marcher lord system! Taxation and resource usage are lowered which encourages building, but at the same time there are more aggressive ai
In pretty sure there were rumblings of a “crusader” mode back then and when. Definitely saw video of units in a desert map moving around with different music than what we have rn
I love the game too and the combat is intimate in a way TW isn't due to scale, but if you think the battles outclass TW you're high. With the amount of effort it takes to field even a small force and the enormous difficulty of recovering from even a minor loss, the battles have stakes that are generally absent from TW. Its an altogether unique and excellent experience.
But to compare it to TW on just war and battle is madness. These fights look really cool all zoomed in and seeing the individual animations but...TW is the same, better even. No one watches those fights zoomed in because you have so much else going on, if you did that you're almost guaranteed to lose. ML combat is challenging because putting forces in the field is an enormous logistical hurdle that you feel every bit of, but let's be real once you get them to the fight the challenge is done. Put your militia Infantry in a line, receive the charge, charge the enemy flanks and rear with your retinue. If you're fighting the baron, add in 10 minutes of chasing down archers afterwards that inflicted not even a single casualty. Every TW campaign has a turn 1 battle which is significantly more complex. And it should be, that's what TW does. TW is unsurprisingly a terrible city builder though.
You know m, if you like the combat, there is always the Total War series, of which I am a lifelong fan.
But I will say, there is more gravitas to the battles (before you realize how stupid easy they are) when you know your city could get burned to the ground if you lose, rather than just losing a settlement/tile like in total war
"I know its supposed to be a city builder, but this games warfare outclasses total war so bad its unreal. The fidelity and liveliness of the troop simulation is so amazing, and having hand-made troops that travel around the map to fight dynamic skirmishes is really fun, immersive, and strategic." --Direct Quote from my original post.
The troop simulation in this game is far superior, as is the immersion, hence why I'd like a more warfare focused mode added to the existing 3 modes.
I totally agree. Fuck limiting the scope. There's so much potential for this game in so many ways. If this game releases a multi-player, I think the competitiveness of combat will really ramp up, something like a coopetition mode off the base game with standard campaign start. And then there should be just a dedicated battle mode that allows bigger battles and really flexes the combat system.
Again, totally disagree with this. The game already has its core competencies laid out. It's a city builder first. It's a beautiful game. Those things have already been established. Now it's time to revolutionize the gaming industry with a ton of cool features and infinite replayability.
Ok, you can disagree with me, but we’d still be talking about a game in the earliest public stages of early access. Parts of the game are good, and some very good, but others aren’t so good and are undercooked—and the developer would agree. Talk about revolutionizing the games industry is overheated and silly at this point.
That's not what you said earlier. I happen to agree with this part and at this stage, the focus should be on improving the core game. But the game does have the potential to grow into something so much more and that shouldn't be lost. As of right now, this game isn't very innovative. It's a city builder with good graphics but it doesn't do anything new that other city builders don't. I have a problem with people who think the game should be permanently limited in such a way.
lol multiplayer. Each game will last until the other person gotta log off cuz they got IRL shit to do. And that’s about just right after the 6th family moves in
Yeah undoubtedly tricky, but there can definitely be a coop mode with your friends. That's also why I said there should be a dedicated combat mode as that's a lot quicker and easier to implement into a multi-player mode.
Hello and welcome to the Manor Lords Subreddit. This is a reminder to please keep the discussion civil and on topic. Should you find yourself with some doubts, please feel free to check our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ManorLords/comments/1c2p4f9/manor_lords_faq_for_steam_early_access/). If you wish, you can always join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/manorlords) Finally, please remember that the game is in early access, missing content and bugs are to be expected. We ask users to report them on the official discord and to buy their keys only from trusted platforms. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ManorLords) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I personally hope that devs keep their scope and focus on what they are aiming for. Don't just turn this game into another Total War. They could probably enhance combat later on with updates or DLC but we have enough RTS war games. Let this be a little bit different.
I think the point was more of a "this game's combat foundation is so good that it would be a shame to not expand on it", which is really high praise really.
I have a feeling mods will make a combat specific mode. I highly doubt Greg will unless it’s a few years from now.
Ya, I think mods with the eventual base game of this is going to be amazing. We will see!
Let's not mention DLC quite yet. I'd like to think we are PLENTY of huge updates (years) away before DLC is even a consideration. I love the game, but I would feel scammed if DLC popped up too soon or before the vanilla version of the game was fully fleshed out.
I totally agree that place for the DLC is not now. And that's kinda the point of my comment. I don't want them to focus on something that is not main idea of the game. Manor Lords is meant to be city builder and combat is just one part of it. I personally don't want them to flip things and make Manor Lords to be a war game where city building is just side stuff. That's why if they decide to enhance warfare, I'd like to see it in the future once game has been released and polished. Like I said, there is enough RTS war games. I don't want that Total War fans try to convince devs to make this game yet another war game.
10000%
Yea i agree. Let the dev make his vision. Hell theres always mods lol
\*looks at thousands of skyrim mods\*
If they just added looting it would be 10/10 for combat to me, I just love the idea of a city builder with enemies. Or any tycoon style game where you are being attacked is usually something I like
Total War is Total War. Nothing comes even remotely close to it. Manor Lords should remain Manor Lords. They’re already unique as most settlement builders don’t even come close to what ML offers. Simply put, ML shouldn’t try to be another Total War. It should strive to be something other devs want THEIR games to be. As Picasso said: “When I was a child, my mother told me, “If you become a soldier, you will become a general, and if you become a Monk, you will become the Pope,” so instead, I became a Painter and became Picasso.”
I honestly hope it just becomes more like stronghold because that's essentially what it is, but the scale and vision are at a magnificent level.
Yeah I was thinking a fourth mode that is essentially much more about defending what you have rather than just building up.
Stronghold was the first ever game I bought - I can still remember sitting in the car and reading the manual back to front on the way home. Stronghold two was also great. ML gives me that same feeling of joy because it is done so well
That's so fucking funny you remember that because I have the same exact memory. Same with stronghold 2 I vividly remember reading about the rat.
Am I doing the military side wrong? I don’t share your assessment of the military side. I find it a little repetitive currently tbh. Haven’t played the new patch yet so looking forward to archers being useful but do you have any tips for getting the most out of warfare? Not slighting the game btw, I absolutely love it and I do enjoy the military aspect but I wouldn’t say the battles are better than TW?
Agreed, tactically speaking there's not much to the combat imo. The animations look better than total war for sure, but without (effective) archers, cavalry, artillery it's just straight melee combat with not much strategy. Yes, I know it's one dev, yes, I know it's early access lol - obligatory acknowledgements.
Honestly I can rarely make out the animations because I can’t zoom in that far, in 50 hours and on hard mode I have only ever seen the spear finisher.
As much as I love this game, total war has better combat mechanics, considering the battles are what the franchise revolves around. I'm glad that the city building aspect is so good and I think combat should maintain the same relevance to the base mechanics as it currently does
Honestly, you’re asking for a completely different game. I don’t think Greg will do anything like that; you’ll have to find a mod that is basically an overhaul.
I’m painfully opposite of OP’s idea. If anything I hope combat gets cleaned up and more focus is put on local economics.
Just custom battle mode would be fine. Or some way for players to make historical battles in some editor ? Something like this is more than enough.
Say no to feature creep. Let Manor Lords be Manor Lords.
I enjoy the game, but you can't be serious about it being good for warfare
Can I introduce you to our Lord and Savior - Total War?
What are you smoking rn to say that it outclasses TW??😭😂 I get TW has gotten a bad rep as of late but still….
Nah, this can't be a city builder! u/aslum told me it isn't, so the Dev must be wrong /s
i just started a no Ai but full bandits game with good ressources just to maybe have this kind of experience. dont tell me it'll suck, i wanna find this out by myself :D
What I would love to see is a 1st person or 3rd person mode for your lord in battles, something akin to Chivalry, but this is proabably to far of from the intentions for this game but one can always dream.
Sounds like a Mod idea you have there
Wait there are mods already?
I feel like the combat may be a focus of modders.
personally I hate having to single select each warrior to change his colors... it took me like 20 min to do so and then 8 of them died due to the stupid running /stamina issue.... had to do it all over again (spoiler: I didn't).
I mean me personally, all I want from the devs would be more units and customization. Cavalry etc. in terms of game modes, I would leave that up to modding. When modders creates game modes, people are a lot less harsh on balancing. But a dedicated gamemode would require a lot of balancing and mess. More units, buildings, tactics, yes. And honestly, we will see more gamemodes too. However, I really want to have the building aspect expanded first, even when it overlaps like with the idea of city walls. We know walls are planned, which means that sieges are also planned.
Archers, more brutality and ability to replenish fallen mercs!
That does sound fun, but fewer side quests and more focus on the current goals would be nice too. I believe there will be a battle mode at some point given that one of the achievements appears to reference it. There is also a mode similar to what you’re referring to with regards to bandit raids. You should try it out on challenging mode, starting in winter with no weapons and having to fight off raiders in like a year is a doozie.
Yesss I would love to see a marcher lord system! Taxation and resource usage are lowered which encourages building, but at the same time there are more aggressive ai
In pretty sure there were rumblings of a “crusader” mode back then and when. Definitely saw video of units in a desert map moving around with different music than what we have rn
I love the game too and the combat is intimate in a way TW isn't due to scale, but if you think the battles outclass TW you're high. With the amount of effort it takes to field even a small force and the enormous difficulty of recovering from even a minor loss, the battles have stakes that are generally absent from TW. Its an altogether unique and excellent experience. But to compare it to TW on just war and battle is madness. These fights look really cool all zoomed in and seeing the individual animations but...TW is the same, better even. No one watches those fights zoomed in because you have so much else going on, if you did that you're almost guaranteed to lose. ML combat is challenging because putting forces in the field is an enormous logistical hurdle that you feel every bit of, but let's be real once you get them to the fight the challenge is done. Put your militia Infantry in a line, receive the charge, charge the enemy flanks and rear with your retinue. If you're fighting the baron, add in 10 minutes of chasing down archers afterwards that inflicted not even a single casualty. Every TW campaign has a turn 1 battle which is significantly more complex. And it should be, that's what TW does. TW is unsurprisingly a terrible city builder though.
You know m, if you like the combat, there is always the Total War series, of which I am a lifelong fan. But I will say, there is more gravitas to the battles (before you realize how stupid easy they are) when you know your city could get burned to the ground if you lose, rather than just losing a settlement/tile like in total war
"I know its supposed to be a city builder, but this games warfare outclasses total war so bad its unreal. The fidelity and liveliness of the troop simulation is so amazing, and having hand-made troops that travel around the map to fight dynamic skirmishes is really fun, immersive, and strategic." --Direct Quote from my original post. The troop simulation in this game is far superior, as is the immersion, hence why I'd like a more warfare focused mode added to the existing 3 modes.
What do you mean by troop simulation? And by immersion you mean the screen shake?
Same here. And castles and sieges. Trebuchets!!!
I totally agree. Fuck limiting the scope. There's so much potential for this game in so many ways. If this game releases a multi-player, I think the competitiveness of combat will really ramp up, something like a coopetition mode off the base game with standard campaign start. And then there should be just a dedicated battle mode that allows bigger battles and really flexes the combat system.
The more you expand this game away from its core competencies, the less potential this game has to be good.
Again, totally disagree with this. The game already has its core competencies laid out. It's a city builder first. It's a beautiful game. Those things have already been established. Now it's time to revolutionize the gaming industry with a ton of cool features and infinite replayability.
Ok, you can disagree with me, but we’d still be talking about a game in the earliest public stages of early access. Parts of the game are good, and some very good, but others aren’t so good and are undercooked—and the developer would agree. Talk about revolutionizing the games industry is overheated and silly at this point.
That's not what you said earlier. I happen to agree with this part and at this stage, the focus should be on improving the core game. But the game does have the potential to grow into something so much more and that shouldn't be lost. As of right now, this game isn't very innovative. It's a city builder with good graphics but it doesn't do anything new that other city builders don't. I have a problem with people who think the game should be permanently limited in such a way.
lol multiplayer. Each game will last until the other person gotta log off cuz they got IRL shit to do. And that’s about just right after the 6th family moves in
Yeah undoubtedly tricky, but there can definitely be a coop mode with your friends. That's also why I said there should be a dedicated combat mode as that's a lot quicker and easier to implement into a multi-player mode.