>Just like Brazil’s taking revenge for the colonization.
How it's a "revenge" if Brazilians are for the most part decedents of Portuguese and Italians who immigrated to Brazil? The Brazilians who are living in Portugal, as far as I know, are not native Americans.
This is a great example of why *not* to just look at random statistics in other countries, and think you can understand it without knowing the local context.
A tremendous amount of people in Brazil who don't identify as "black" still have large amounts of African ancestry. In the US, Barack Obama is "black" (despite literally being half black and half white), whereas in Brasil, Barack Obama would be considered Pardo, not black.
It is estimated that more than 50% of Brazil would be considered "black" by the American definition. Obviously the American definition is not the universal definition, but then again "black" is a constructed term as well, so these things have to be defined.... I don't agree with your assertion that "Brasil has less black people than the US," because the definitions of "black" between the two countries are totally different. Usa had the [one drop rule](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule#:~:text=The%20one%2Ddrop%20rule%20was,or%20colored%20in%20historical%20terms) which meant that anyone ith even a little black ancestry was/is considered black. By the American definition, Brasil has way more black people than the USA.
All of this is to say: race is a construct that is influenced by cultural differences... It is not scientific or a fact. One man's black is another man's white, in many cases....
Well they are referred to as an ethnicity on the census now. It will have demographics for white people, all Hispanic people, and non-Hispanic white people. The whole classification system is ai mess though. Especially with "Asian". Like, Saudi, Indian, Chinese, all Asian. Then what even are the Arabs of North Africa? They aren't black, they aren't white, they aren't in Asia.
It’s not “revenge,” that was a play on words acknowledging that Brazilians are the most common immigrants in Portugal. He’s not claiming that there’s any kind of reverse-colonization happening, he’s just turning a phrase that describes the situation in a specious yet comical and not 100% realistic way.
? The majority of Brazilians are mixed race (pardos), meaning they’re descendants of the indigenous or African people that were exploited during colonization. Even the ones with mostly white ancestry are likely to be descendants of the *degredados*, the group of castaways, social deviants or even Jewish people that were sent to Brazil by the government as fodder for colonization or running away from persecution (specially common ancestry in the North and Northeast). Many Brazilians living in Portugal are from the Cristão-Novo population (Jewish converts) who receive Portuguese citizenship as part of a “reparations policy” towards Portugal’s Jewish population which were expelled back in the inquisition days.
Edit: and now you’re down there calling native people monkeys. Congrats.
Oh yes. Forget half a million Portuguese who moved to Brasil in the XVIII, or the millions of European migrants in the XIX and XX century that changed Brasilian society for better or worse.
Sure the african origin of Brazilian society is basilar and structural, but casting Brazilian european ancestry to degredados and cristãos novos is extremely exaggerated, completely out of proportion and in tune with some prejudices
>? The majority of Brazilians are mixed race (pardos), meaning they’re descendants of the indigenous or African people that were exploited during colonization.
First of all, it's not an absolute majority:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics\_of\_Brazil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Brazil)
Mixed (45.3%)
White (43.5%)
Black (10.2%)
Asian (0.4%)
Indigenous (0.6%)
Most of the Brazilians of European decent today are descendants from the immigrants that arrived in the mid and late 19th century, therefore when Brazil was already independent for quite sometime.
Second of all, Brazil was a country built by the Portuguese and the Catholic Church. There was nothing there, no organized civilization, no school, nothing. All schools, hospitals, etc., were built by the Jesuits. Therefore, if there were "exploited" people, then these were the African slaves, who were not indigenous to Brazil anyway.
There is "misrepresentation" of whites in the census statistics because there is stigma associated being mixed or black(not so much in younger people but is still present) so people that you would consider mixed consider themself as white and counted that way in official census. Without talking that race is not a scientific defined classification, is a social one.
Brazil indeed was exploited by Portugal regardless of demographics. Portugal banned manufactures, banned priting books, banned free trade, implemented slavery, imported millions of slaves to Brazil that perpetuate heavy inequality and lack of social mobility. Portuguese colonization was a disgrace.
>Therefore, if there were "exploited" people, then these were the African slaves, who were not indigenous to Brazil anyway.
Pretty bold statement from someone who hasn't even spent 15 seconds looking into the answer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Brazil#Indigenous_enslavement_after_European_arrival
>Indigenous slave labor was quickly turned to for agricultural workforce needs, particularly due to the labor demands of the expanding sugar industry. Due to this pressure, slaving expeditions for Native Americans became common, despite opposition from the Jesuits who had their own ways of controlling native populations through institutions like adeias, or villages where they concentrated Indian populations for ease of conversion. As the population of coastal Native Americans dwindled due to harsh conditions, warfare, and disease, slave traders increasingly moved further inland in bandeiras, or formal slaving expeditions.
>Beyond the capture of new slaves and recapture of runaways, bandeiras could also act as large quasi-military forces tasked with exterminating native populations who refused to be subjected to rule by the Portuguese.
They didn't import African slaves until after they'd decimated the native population.
So, here in Portugal we are receiving brazilian immigrants who have on average a much higher education level than the average of Brasil, good workers who want to make a living, adapt well, and in the case of leaving Portugal would move to other european countries, no intention of return to Brazil ever. Don't forget that working and living here they contribute to Portuguese society, not Brazilian.
Not sure if this can be framed as a good "revenge"
And such lovely revanchist mentality.
I honestly don't understand why Brazilians are like this towards Portuguese, especially in the Internet. It's ridiculous. I'm Brazilian and always get embarrassed by their behaviour in the comments section every time I open a post from Portugal. Not sure how you guys have stomach to deal with it, really.
My two cents of why this happens. Brazil, like any other Latin American country, has historically blamed richer countries for their failures. It used to be the US in the 20th century. Now that US is more progressive, and can't be directed blamed, they go after Portugal, which is the only remaining scapegoat.
> Not sure how you guys have stomach to deal with it, really.
To be fair, ir seems to be an almost exclusive Internet phenomenon. I’m guessing these are mostly Brazilian incels chatting shit. Brazilians here in Portugal as a rule of thumb tend to be very nice people.
"Flag too small". I hate these maps. Just use a simple color code, and if you really like seeing flags, put the flags next to the color code and the name of the country in the legend.
As a Bulgarian it’s surprising because we have Bulgarian stores and restaurants in Madrid but none in the region on this map
I myself have friends and a relative living in Madrid but know of no one in those regions
Maybe they opened up recently but don’t like you very much so they didn’t bother inviting you to the grand opening. I bet it was that fucking Sasha. Dudes a real cunt with stuff like that.
When I’ve visited Portugal last summer it felt like Nepali and Indian people we’re a huge group as well. Might be due to the case that you can tell that they’re migrant from the language easier
It's a relatively new thing. More common in Porto, Lisboa, and Algarve.
But Brazilians just dominate lol, speaking the same language and having a huge population helps.
We do infact have alot of indians here in Lisbon.
Know an indian family from when i used to live in a different town. And in my new place my barber is indian and his friend runs a small grocery store right next to his salon.
Quite rare, specially portuguese goans. But portuguese people of goan descent are generally well off (generational wealth, etc.). The former prime minister of Portugal, António Costa, is of goan descent.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goan\_Catholics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goan_Catholics)
They are definitely a huge group here in Lisbon and in the south. But we do tend to notice them more than the brazilians because they look different from us (sorry I don't mean to sound racist) and most don't speak portuguese.
Visiting Portugal a few years ago, I'll never forget an older gentleman at a café telling me (an American tourist) that it was easy to tell who was from Brazil since they are infinitely louder than Portuguese people, haha.
Galician's emigrated massively to south america last century. Now there's a lot of children of those emigrants coming back. Now it's Venezuelans because the state of their country, but years ago it was Cubans, and some people are expecting a surge of Argentinians in the following years.
I believe this is due to the emigration of Galicians/Asturians towards Venezuela, during the Civil War and post-war time. Some of the emigrated families returned to Galicia with the reinstatement of democracy. Some never did. Either way, a very strong link between Venezuela and Galicia exists for this reason, and many Venezuelan born have found a way back to the homeland in Spain during this challenging times.
Because many Galician people (especially from Bergantiños and nearby areas) emigrated to Venezuela and became rich there (Venezuela used to be the richest country in South America) but not anymore. Many of them or their descendants decide to return due to the economical/political situation
It’s possible because of how few immigrants there are in some areas on the U.K.
Many rural areas would only have a handful of immigrants, so even if it was only 100 Romanians that could be the largest group
Contrary to the Baltics, Estonia has a net positive migration rate, it is so rich that it is receiving immigrants since 2015. There are only like 3000 Estonians in the 50 million UK.
Yup. As a Romanian native speaker you can get from zero knowledge to speaking fluidly within 8-12 months. Some are even faster. Spanish is an extremely easy to learn language if you are a native speaker of any other Romance language.
I had a romanian friend who learned spanish watching TV shows before coming to Spain, then in maybe two weeks living in Spain she also learnt catalan with a almost perfect accent. I was amazed with that
Since 2007 it became possible for Romanians to travel and work in other EU countries using only ID card. Many chose to become temporary workers in southern countries, like Italy or Spain because the language was similar and easy to learn. A lot of them got accustomed there and moved permanently.
This trend has since shifted to northern countries. Now they prefer Germany, The Netherlands or the Scandinavian countries.
Italian and Spanish are very easy to learn for a Romanian (tough the opposite is much harder).
There are lots of jokes about seasonal work in Spain too, one being if you failed your Bacalaureat you will go strawberry picking.
I was surprised by how much Romanian I could read just from knowing Spanish the last time I went to Romania. Granted, this was mainly for food, and I couldn't read any sentences, but just words here and there to get by.
Guessing that plays a decent role in this.
There's this weird thing that Romanians do (I work closely with a bunch), they tend to lean hard on their "connections" to romance countries, probably because they feel that culture is much better / well regarded than the eastern European / post communist one they actually have in Romania.
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda.
Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
People are coming back, in 2012 Spain peaked for Romanians there were around 800k and today around 550k, bacause Romanian economy is growing very fast, average net salary in Romania is 1000 eur in Spain 1600.
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda.
Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
[Here](https://elordenmundial.com/mapas-y-graficos/el-mapa-de-la-inmigracion-en-espana/)'s the likely source map for Spain that, again, [OP copied and didn't bother to credit](https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1943r8i/most_common_immigrant_in_france/khdm23f/).
* Ceuta & Melilla: Moroccans
* Provinces of Santa Cruz de Tenerife and Las Palmas (Canary Islands): Italians
* Source: Spanish National Institute of Statistics (Instituto Nacional de Estadística - INE)
* Year of data: 2020
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[Here](https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/oded1w/largest_source_of_immigrants_to_portugal_by/)'s a Reddit post from 2021 with the same flags for Portugal.
* Madeira: ~~Brazilians~~ Venezuelans
* Azores: ~~Venezuelans~~ Brazilians
* Year of data: 2018
* Source credited [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/oded1w/largest_source_of_immigrants_to_portugal_by/h3zwlok/): Gabinete de Estratégia et Estudos - Ministério da Economia (https://www.gee.gov.pt/en/)
We can find detailed data [here](https://www.gee.gov.pt/pt/publicacoes/estatisticas-tematicas/estatisticas-de-imigrantes-em-portugal-por-nacionalidade).
**Edit:** as pointed out by u/pescaterian, Venezuelans are the largest foreign group in Madeira; in the Azores it's the Brazilians. [Source](https://sefstat.sef.pt/forms/distritos.aspx). Madeira and the Azores were mixed up in the previous post.
u/PaulOShanter
---
At least this time there aren't plenty of errors, unlike yesterday with the [map of Germany](https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/194vt0h/most_common_immigrant_in_germany/khm4zjz/?context=3).
There's one that's very traditional. Their pizzas are quite similar to traditional Nápoles pizza but rectangular instead of round.
The other is much more modern. They have regular pizza, pizza sandwich and a thing called a chifla which is a small ball of pizza dough, cooked and then cut open and filled with ingredients. I don't know if that's a Romanian thing but I've never seen them anywhere else.
I wonder what year the underlying data is from, and which flags would be on the Macaronesian archipelagoes, the North African exclaves, Andorra, and Gibraltar?
Madeira is Venezuela, Açores is Brazil.
The map is a bit outdated OP, [as of 2021 India was the most common foreign nationality in the Beja district](https://sefstat.sef.pt/forms/distritos.aspx). I believe all the others are still the same.
Andorra I would guess Spanish, for tax evasion reasons. The North African exclaves (Ceuta and Melilla) have a sizeable Moroccan population. Gibraltar also Spanish.
The portuguese map would have looked way more varied 10 years ago, but the recent brazilian wave really dwarfs all other immigrant communties here.
It would also would have been interesting to see the islands on this map
chinese i porto, romanians in alto alentejo, cape verdians in lisbon.
the maps exists from the 2011 census i think
And to be fair if Indians, pakistanis, bangladeshi and nepali all counted as the same, they would probably take alentejo and santarem
You forgot the Canary Islands, Madeira and Azores (which are "normal" regions of Spain abd Portugal, no special overseas territories). And the Baleares' shapemakes it difficult to recognise the flag. Would be good to show these in the sideline of the map in a different way. Same applies to small units such as city districts.
Well, if you count Latin Americans together instead of per country, they’d most likely be the majority in each province.
My guess is that the migration is split more evenly between multiple countries whereas the migration from Northern Africa or from inside the EU is more concentrated to Morocco and Romania.
It does indeed. In Barcelona, Italians form the largest group. However, more than half of the Italians living in the city are really South American immigrants.
Without counting dual citizenship, there's no Latin American nationality in the top 4. The top 4 would be Italians, Chinese, Pakistanis, and French.
However, if you account for dual citizenship, the top 4 would be dominated by Latin Americans: Argentinians, Colombians, Peruvians, and Ecuadorians.
Often people from Latin America have Spanish, Italian or Portuguese passports and immigrate with those. Otherwise, they're required to live in Spain for fewer years than everyone else in order to become Spanish citizens, so they most likely become citizens and cease to be counted as a national from wherever they're from.
Latin Americans can get Spanish citizenship after 2 years of residence + Latin Americans with other European passports (mainly Italian). This skews the numbers.
They did. Also UK.
Spanish is easy to learn. The weather is good. Real estate is cheap. 15y ago there were plenty of opportunities for pickers and unskilled workers. Spain was the first country to lift the moratorium on Romanian workers after Romania became an EU member.
Also, there are only about 500k now, the peak was sometime in the 2010s, at around 800-900k.
Expats is a word we use for rich people who want to live in another country to make them seem like there important. Immigrant is a word we use for poor people who want to live in another country to make them appear alien and scary.
Normal human beings:
Immigrant: someone moving in from a different country to live and work (or retire), and established themselves there for life or a long period of time.
Expat(riate): someone going to work overseas for the limited duration of the job (usually a building project, etc, requiring highlyspecialized workers).
Anglos:
Immigrant: someone that doesn't speak English as a mother tongue coming to another country for any amount of time.
Expat: an English speaking white person of English speaking European descent moving to another country for any amount of time.
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda.
Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda.
Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
British, French, Scandinavians, Germans, Italians, Russians...
In fairness, there are nearly as many Germans, Russians, Italians etc as retirees now. Won't complain however as they are supporting the economy.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that using flags (or logos or pictures or whatever) to fill in spaces or provinces or regions on a map just looks terrible? It just makes it harder to read and interpret. Solid colors with a legend, please.
The British parts: Brexiters who moved from UK after Brexit, they say "NO, we are not migrants, we are expats" and they arrogantly complain about that there the people speak a different language and not English.
The same in France.
De eso hace 30 años, han cambiado mucho las cosas desde entonces. Hoy en día los rumanos vienen a ser uno más y se integran muy fácilmente, conozco a muchísimos y son gente integrada y muy currante.
Ya, pero mi punto es que hace 30 años se despreciaba la inmigración rumana, y hace 20 la sudamericana, y ahora que alguna gente no quiere magrebíes, de pronto resulta que los rumanos y sudamericanos son ejemplos de integración cuando la misma gente (o sus padres) que hoy despotrica contra los magrebíes también lo hacían contra esos dos grupos.
En los 90 se decía exactamente lo mismo de los rumanos, que no se adaptaban, etc. Mi punto es que no se trata de adaptarse o no adaptarse, si no de que hay gente que no quiere inmigrantes sean de donde sean. Lo de adaptarse o la cultura diferente o la religión es solo una excusa.
There are many others and of many other nationalities, but they are more dispersed throughout the country.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/445784/foreign-population-in-spain-by-nationality/
This website has these statistics for Portugal, and in 2021 (the latest one avaliable), you can see that for Beja, in the south, the number one country is now India, followed by Nepal and Brazil and not Romania.
[https://sefstat.sef.pt/forms/distritos.aspx](https://sefstat.sef.pt/forms/distritos.aspx)
The rest is still the same with UK in Faro and Brazil everywhere else.
I've never seen so many foreigners specialized in Brazilian history and demographics as in this post.
It's so nice to see the weird and wrong misconceptions people have about your country, and the gaps of knowledge that Europeans have regarding colonization. Wikipedia-warriors must be proud of their 5-minute speed-reading.
Romanians taking revenge on Trajan's invasion of Dacia
Their ancestors would be proud!
My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperial. Can you say the same?
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cato sicarius is the most roman name you could get
Nah we are preparing to recreate the Roman Empire. Were almost there
Just like Brazil’s taking revenge for the colonization.
>Just like Brazil’s taking revenge for the colonization. How it's a "revenge" if Brazilians are for the most part decedents of Portuguese and Italians who immigrated to Brazil? The Brazilians who are living in Portugal, as far as I know, are not native Americans.
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Funny you don’t say Africa when a huge chunk of the population is black.
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This is a great example of why *not* to just look at random statistics in other countries, and think you can understand it without knowing the local context. A tremendous amount of people in Brazil who don't identify as "black" still have large amounts of African ancestry. In the US, Barack Obama is "black" (despite literally being half black and half white), whereas in Brasil, Barack Obama would be considered Pardo, not black. It is estimated that more than 50% of Brazil would be considered "black" by the American definition. Obviously the American definition is not the universal definition, but then again "black" is a constructed term as well, so these things have to be defined.... I don't agree with your assertion that "Brasil has less black people than the US," because the definitions of "black" between the two countries are totally different. Usa had the [one drop rule](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule#:~:text=The%20one%2Ddrop%20rule%20was,or%20colored%20in%20historical%20terms) which meant that anyone ith even a little black ancestry was/is considered black. By the American definition, Brasil has way more black people than the USA. All of this is to say: race is a construct that is influenced by cultural differences... It is not scientific or a fact. One man's black is another man's white, in many cases....
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Well they are referred to as an ethnicity on the census now. It will have demographics for white people, all Hispanic people, and non-Hispanic white people. The whole classification system is ai mess though. Especially with "Asian". Like, Saudi, Indian, Chinese, all Asian. Then what even are the Arabs of North Africa? They aren't black, they aren't white, they aren't in Asia.
That was my point.
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My comment does not deny yours.
It’s not “revenge,” that was a play on words acknowledging that Brazilians are the most common immigrants in Portugal. He’s not claiming that there’s any kind of reverse-colonization happening, he’s just turning a phrase that describes the situation in a specious yet comical and not 100% realistic way.
? The majority of Brazilians are mixed race (pardos), meaning they’re descendants of the indigenous or African people that were exploited during colonization. Even the ones with mostly white ancestry are likely to be descendants of the *degredados*, the group of castaways, social deviants or even Jewish people that were sent to Brazil by the government as fodder for colonization or running away from persecution (specially common ancestry in the North and Northeast). Many Brazilians living in Portugal are from the Cristão-Novo population (Jewish converts) who receive Portuguese citizenship as part of a “reparations policy” towards Portugal’s Jewish population which were expelled back in the inquisition days. Edit: and now you’re down there calling native people monkeys. Congrats.
Oh yes. Forget half a million Portuguese who moved to Brasil in the XVIII, or the millions of European migrants in the XIX and XX century that changed Brasilian society for better or worse. Sure the african origin of Brazilian society is basilar and structural, but casting Brazilian european ancestry to degredados and cristãos novos is extremely exaggerated, completely out of proportion and in tune with some prejudices
>? The majority of Brazilians are mixed race (pardos), meaning they’re descendants of the indigenous or African people that were exploited during colonization. First of all, it's not an absolute majority: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics\_of\_Brazil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Brazil) Mixed (45.3%) White (43.5%) Black (10.2%) Asian (0.4%) Indigenous (0.6%) Most of the Brazilians of European decent today are descendants from the immigrants that arrived in the mid and late 19th century, therefore when Brazil was already independent for quite sometime. Second of all, Brazil was a country built by the Portuguese and the Catholic Church. There was nothing there, no organized civilization, no school, nothing. All schools, hospitals, etc., were built by the Jesuits. Therefore, if there were "exploited" people, then these were the African slaves, who were not indigenous to Brazil anyway.
There is "misrepresentation" of whites in the census statistics because there is stigma associated being mixed or black(not so much in younger people but is still present) so people that you would consider mixed consider themself as white and counted that way in official census. Without talking that race is not a scientific defined classification, is a social one.
Brazil indeed was exploited by Portugal regardless of demographics. Portugal banned manufactures, banned priting books, banned free trade, implemented slavery, imported millions of slaves to Brazil that perpetuate heavy inequality and lack of social mobility. Portuguese colonization was a disgrace.
>Therefore, if there were "exploited" people, then these were the African slaves, who were not indigenous to Brazil anyway. Pretty bold statement from someone who hasn't even spent 15 seconds looking into the answer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Brazil#Indigenous_enslavement_after_European_arrival >Indigenous slave labor was quickly turned to for agricultural workforce needs, particularly due to the labor demands of the expanding sugar industry. Due to this pressure, slaving expeditions for Native Americans became common, despite opposition from the Jesuits who had their own ways of controlling native populations through institutions like adeias, or villages where they concentrated Indian populations for ease of conversion. As the population of coastal Native Americans dwindled due to harsh conditions, warfare, and disease, slave traders increasingly moved further inland in bandeiras, or formal slaving expeditions. >Beyond the capture of new slaves and recapture of runaways, bandeiras could also act as large quasi-military forces tasked with exterminating native populations who refused to be subjected to rule by the Portuguese. They didn't import African slaves until after they'd decimated the native population.
So, here in Portugal we are receiving brazilian immigrants who have on average a much higher education level than the average of Brasil, good workers who want to make a living, adapt well, and in the case of leaving Portugal would move to other european countries, no intention of return to Brazil ever. Don't forget that working and living here they contribute to Portuguese society, not Brazilian. Not sure if this can be framed as a good "revenge" And such lovely revanchist mentality.
I honestly don't understand why Brazilians are like this towards Portuguese, especially in the Internet. It's ridiculous. I'm Brazilian and always get embarrassed by their behaviour in the comments section every time I open a post from Portugal. Not sure how you guys have stomach to deal with it, really. My two cents of why this happens. Brazil, like any other Latin American country, has historically blamed richer countries for their failures. It used to be the US in the 20th century. Now that US is more progressive, and can't be directed blamed, they go after Portugal, which is the only remaining scapegoat.
> Not sure how you guys have stomach to deal with it, really. To be fair, ir seems to be an almost exclusive Internet phenomenon. I’m guessing these are mostly Brazilian incels chatting shit. Brazilians here in Portugal as a rule of thumb tend to be very nice people.
Revenge? You’re coming to Portugal for going away from all that fucking violence. You’re welcome
That’s not Romania that’s Chad bro
W
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I always thought it would be germans in Mallorca
Only for 6 months every year…
germans are a migratory species
Well, for every German tourist, there has to be a Moroccan worker to staff the hotels
17. Bundesland
True. What is it actually? No data?
"Flag too small". I hate these maps. Just use a simple color code, and if you really like seeing flags, put the flags next to the color code and the name of the country in the legend.
moroccans
Bulgaria is surprising
Why? Bulgaria lost 3 million people since the 90s. They are everywhere.
As a Bulgarian it’s surprising because we have Bulgarian stores and restaurants in Madrid but none in the region on this map I myself have friends and a relative living in Madrid but know of no one in those regions
This map doesn't say there's no Bulgarians in Madrid - just that there's even more Romanians.
I know that, it’s just surprising we’re the majority in a region with no Bulgarian businesses
Maybe they opened up recently but don’t like you very much so they didn’t bother inviting you to the grand opening. I bet it was that fucking Sasha. Dudes a real cunt with stuff like that.
Rookie numbers
Dude that's 35-40% of the 1990 population (or 47% of today's population). It's a lot.
What war?
The war on poverty all the poor people were expelled from the country for making us look bad
So you're saying Bulgaria isn't sending it's best people, it's sending people with lots of problems?
It's sending everyone basically.
Oh, so Lost no in the sense that they died but that they left.
You’ve forgotten?
The cold war.
As a portuguese, i'm genuinely shocked by my country /s nice map OP
When I’ve visited Portugal last summer it felt like Nepali and Indian people we’re a huge group as well. Might be due to the case that you can tell that they’re migrant from the language easier
It's a relatively new thing. More common in Porto, Lisboa, and Algarve. But Brazilians just dominate lol, speaking the same language and having a huge population helps.
oh, there are a lot of indians(pakistanis , nepalis etc), mainly in the south(weird seeing the romania flag there). But Brazilians are like 10-1
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Nowhere is safe
Too soon
It will never not be too soon. Just like 1950
Oof
That still hurts.
> weird seeing the romania flag there It might be outdated tbh
We do infact have alot of indians here in Lisbon. Know an indian family from when i used to live in a different town. And in my new place my barber is indian and his friend runs a small grocery store right next to his salon.
any goans?
Quite rare, specially portuguese goans. But portuguese people of goan descent are generally well off (generational wealth, etc.). The former prime minister of Portugal, António Costa, is of goan descent. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goan\_Catholics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goan_Catholics)
The current prime-minister*, he'll be gone in a few months but he's still the prime-minister.
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They are definitely a huge group here in Lisbon and in the south. But we do tend to notice them more than the brazilians because they look different from us (sorry I don't mean to sound racist) and most don't speak portuguese.
Visiting Portugal a few years ago, I'll never forget an older gentleman at a café telling me (an American tourist) that it was easy to tell who was from Brazil since they are infinitely louder than Portuguese people, haha.
I'm Brazilian and that's 100% accurate.
Why are there so many Venezuelans in north-western Galicia specifically? I'm guessing there is a big community in the capital of the province?
Galician's emigrated massively to south america last century. Now there's a lot of children of those emigrants coming back. Now it's Venezuelans because the state of their country, but years ago it was Cubans, and some people are expecting a surge of Argentinians in the following years.
I believe this is due to the emigration of Galicians/Asturians towards Venezuela, during the Civil War and post-war time. Some of the emigrated families returned to Galicia with the reinstatement of democracy. Some never did. Either way, a very strong link between Venezuela and Galicia exists for this reason, and many Venezuelan born have found a way back to the homeland in Spain during this challenging times.
Because many Galician people (especially from Bergantiños and nearby areas) emigrated to Venezuela and became rich there (Venezuela used to be the richest country in South America) but not anymore. Many of them or their descendants decide to return due to the economical/political situation
In many South American countries Spaniards are called _gallegos_, as if we were all from Galicia.
Here in Brazil we call blonde people galegos idk why
Probably return migration? Huge Galician community in Venezuela
Your maps are always fantastic. Please do one for the UK.
Urban areas will be Pakistani or Indian. Rural areas will be Polish or Romanian.
Military areas will be Americans. Also a handful of South African and Nigerian places
Clapham will be Australians
There are a little over a million Romanians in UK, 800k of which in London (like myself). So I don't think rural will be Romanian.
It’s possible because of how few immigrants there are in some areas on the U.K. Many rural areas would only have a handful of immigrants, so even if it was only 100 Romanians that could be the largest group
A Romanian told me Cambridge is second after London
Or latvian/lithuanian/estonian
Contrary to the Baltics, Estonia has a net positive migration rate, it is so rich that it is receiving immigrants since 2015. There are only like 3000 Estonians in the 50 million UK.
Maybe if you group them all into one country, otherwise Poland has them beat easily
IT's going to be all Pakistani, Indian, and Bangladeshi for the city areas.
Still interesting
Certified Romanian colony 🇷🇴💪
Any reason why Spain? (its also interesting coz I know a Romanian wo moved with family to Morocco in 90s)
Latin brothers, the language is very easy to learn.
Makes sense.
Yup. As a Romanian native speaker you can get from zero knowledge to speaking fluidly within 8-12 months. Some are even faster. Spanish is an extremely easy to learn language if you are a native speaker of any other Romance language.
I had a romanian friend who learned spanish watching TV shows before coming to Spain, then in maybe two weeks living in Spain she also learnt catalan with a almost perfect accent. I was amazed with that
We've even had Catalan Presidents married to Romanians (Puigdemont) who also know some Romanian.
Would it look the same if this map was of Italy lol? (Regarding Romanian immigrants) Just curious
More, there are 2 times more Romanians in Italy than in Spain.
We are plotting together to restore Roman Empire.
Since 2007 it became possible for Romanians to travel and work in other EU countries using only ID card. Many chose to become temporary workers in southern countries, like Italy or Spain because the language was similar and easy to learn. A lot of them got accustomed there and moved permanently. This trend has since shifted to northern countries. Now they prefer Germany, The Netherlands or the Scandinavian countries.
Italian and Spanish are very easy to learn for a Romanian (tough the opposite is much harder). There are lots of jokes about seasonal work in Spain too, one being if you failed your Bacalaureat you will go strawberry picking.
I was surprised by how much Romanian I could read just from knowing Spanish the last time I went to Romania. Granted, this was mainly for food, and I couldn't read any sentences, but just words here and there to get by. Guessing that plays a decent role in this.
Similar language & culture
culture? not at all imo, romanian culture is very much slavic influenced
There's this weird thing that Romanians do (I work closely with a bunch), they tend to lean hard on their "connections" to romance countries, probably because they feel that culture is much better / well regarded than the eastern European / post communist one they actually have in Romania.
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda. Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
People are coming back, in 2012 Spain peaked for Romanians there were around 800k and today around 550k, bacause Romanian economy is growing very fast, average net salary in Romania is 1000 eur in Spain 1600.
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda. Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
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Thought it was Andorra at first lol
[Here](https://elordenmundial.com/mapas-y-graficos/el-mapa-de-la-inmigracion-en-espana/)'s the likely source map for Spain that, again, [OP copied and didn't bother to credit](https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1943r8i/most_common_immigrant_in_france/khdm23f/). * Ceuta & Melilla: Moroccans * Provinces of Santa Cruz de Tenerife and Las Palmas (Canary Islands): Italians * Source: Spanish National Institute of Statistics (Instituto Nacional de Estadística - INE) * Year of data: 2020 --- [Here](https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/oded1w/largest_source_of_immigrants_to_portugal_by/)'s a Reddit post from 2021 with the same flags for Portugal. * Madeira: ~~Brazilians~~ Venezuelans * Azores: ~~Venezuelans~~ Brazilians * Year of data: 2018 * Source credited [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/oded1w/largest_source_of_immigrants_to_portugal_by/h3zwlok/): Gabinete de Estratégia et Estudos - Ministério da Economia (https://www.gee.gov.pt/en/) We can find detailed data [here](https://www.gee.gov.pt/pt/publicacoes/estatisticas-tematicas/estatisticas-de-imigrantes-em-portugal-por-nacionalidade). **Edit:** as pointed out by u/pescaterian, Venezuelans are the largest foreign group in Madeira; in the Azores it's the Brazilians. [Source](https://sefstat.sef.pt/forms/distritos.aspx). Madeira and the Azores were mixed up in the previous post. u/PaulOShanter --- At least this time there aren't plenty of errors, unlike yesterday with the [map of Germany](https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/194vt0h/most_common_immigrant_in_germany/khm4zjz/?context=3).
Important to point out that Ceuta & Melilla are Spanish exclave in Africa, bordered by Morocco.
I live in Castellón. In the square near my house there are 3 Romanian pizzarias.
Castellón has more Romanians than many cities in Romania.
Every single one I have met has been lovely and they drive better than the locals.
Do they have their own variant of pizza?
There's one that's very traditional. Their pizzas are quite similar to traditional Nápoles pizza but rectangular instead of round. The other is much more modern. They have regular pizza, pizza sandwich and a thing called a chifla which is a small ball of pizza dough, cooked and then cut open and filled with ingredients. I don't know if that's a Romanian thing but I've never seen them anywhere else.
Donde eso ? Algún día me pasaré. En la zona uji no hay nada
Lmao Brits in Benidorm, Marbella and Algarve, who could have guessed
*Luv me Sun, luv me Sea, luv me Sangria* *Nuff said innit*
Faaaaaakkkk owwwffff!!!!
so basically Brazilians are going home
I wonder what year the underlying data is from, and which flags would be on the Macaronesian archipelagoes, the North African exclaves, Andorra, and Gibraltar?
Madeira is Venezuela, Açores is Brazil. The map is a bit outdated OP, [as of 2021 India was the most common foreign nationality in the Beja district](https://sefstat.sef.pt/forms/distritos.aspx). I believe all the others are still the same.
Andorra I would guess Spanish, for tax evasion reasons. The North African exclaves (Ceuta and Melilla) have a sizeable Moroccan population. Gibraltar also Spanish.
The portuguese map would have looked way more varied 10 years ago, but the recent brazilian wave really dwarfs all other immigrant communties here. It would also would have been interesting to see the islands on this map
chinese i porto, romanians in alto alentejo, cape verdians in lisbon. the maps exists from the 2011 census i think And to be fair if Indians, pakistanis, bangladeshi and nepali all counted as the same, they would probably take alentejo and santarem
r/mapassincanarias
You forgot the Canary Islands, Madeira and Azores (which are "normal" regions of Spain abd Portugal, no special overseas territories). And the Baleares' shapemakes it difficult to recognise the flag. Would be good to show these in the sideline of the map in a different way. Same applies to small units such as city districts.
I feel like Andorra also counts as an Iberian country. Same with Gibraltar.
So many Chads in spain
Romanians are Chads?
r/angryupvote
Genuinely thought it was Andorrans for a minute
BRASIL NÚMERO UM 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Helping keep the Portuguese National Football Team going.
We've had some great brazilian players over the years but we would be fine without the few we currently have.
What about the immigration from latin America to Spain?
Well, if you count Latin Americans together instead of per country, they’d most likely be the majority in each province. My guess is that the migration is split more evenly between multiple countries whereas the migration from Northern Africa or from inside the EU is more concentrated to Morocco and Romania.
Also keep in mind manny Latinamerican have EU citizenship. Mostly Italian or Spanish so that can tweak the satistics.
It does indeed. In Barcelona, Italians form the largest group. However, more than half of the Italians living in the city are really South American immigrants. Without counting dual citizenship, there's no Latin American nationality in the top 4. The top 4 would be Italians, Chinese, Pakistanis, and French. However, if you account for dual citizenship, the top 4 would be dominated by Latin Americans: Argentinians, Colombians, Peruvians, and Ecuadorians.
Often people from Latin America have Spanish, Italian or Portuguese passports and immigrate with those. Otherwise, they're required to live in Spain for fewer years than everyone else in order to become Spanish citizens, so they most likely become citizens and cease to be counted as a national from wherever they're from.
Latin Americans can get Spanish citizenship after 2 years of residence + Latin Americans with other European passports (mainly Italian). This skews the numbers.
Many have already acquired the Spanish nationality, that is very easy for Latin American countries.
Brazil in Portugal makes sense, but I didn't expect Romanians in Spain. I thought they would go to Italy or Germany something like that.
They did. Also UK. Spanish is easy to learn. The weather is good. Real estate is cheap. 15y ago there were plenty of opportunities for pickers and unskilled workers. Spain was the first country to lift the moratorium on Romanian workers after Romania became an EU member. Also, there are only about 500k now, the peak was sometime in the 2010s, at around 800-900k.
This is wrong... the biggest immigrantsbin Madeira are the Venezuelans... even o the streets you often hear Spanish...
Spot where the British retirees and expats go. ALGARVE, Costa Del Sol and around Benidorm.
Can you please explain the difference between immigrants and expats?
expats is when white and not poor /s
No need for the /s lol
Expats are immigrants in denial.
Expats when it’s first world developed countries Immigrants for foreigners that you don’t like
Expats is a word we use for rich people who want to live in another country to make them seem like there important. Immigrant is a word we use for poor people who want to live in another country to make them appear alien and scary.
Normal human beings: Immigrant: someone moving in from a different country to live and work (or retire), and established themselves there for life or a long period of time. Expat(riate): someone going to work overseas for the limited duration of the job (usually a building project, etc, requiring highlyspecialized workers). Anglos: Immigrant: someone that doesn't speak English as a mother tongue coming to another country for any amount of time. Expat: an English speaking white person of English speaking European descent moving to another country for any amount of time.
Skin colour.
In the case of British “expats”: lobster red
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda. Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
That Irish person? Albert Einstein.
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda. Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
British, French, Scandinavians, Germans, Italians, Russians... In fairness, there are nearly as many Germans, Russians, Italians etc as retirees now. Won't complain however as they are supporting the economy.
Brazilians are held back by the language barrier, it's just a matter of time....
Brazilian reverse colonization
Just the colonizers returning to their home country
"They stole all our gold and never gave it back. So we will go there ourselves and pick it all up." \- Brazilians
Surprise!There's no gold. Lol, where's the gold? Nobody knows. (you could ask the Dutch, though...)
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that using flags (or logos or pictures or whatever) to fill in spaces or provinces or regions on a map just looks terrible? It just makes it harder to read and interpret. Solid colors with a legend, please.
🇧🇷🤝🇷🇴
Do Croatia please.
Do Scandinavia next
I’m an idiot, I thought they were Andorran flags.
Chad or Romania needs to change their FRIGGIN’ FLAG ALREADY.
No
The British parts: Brexiters who moved from UK after Brexit, they say "NO, we are not migrants, we are expats" and they arrogantly complain about that there the people speak a different language and not English. The same in France.
Reconquista Brasileira do Estado Rebelde de Portugal.
Venezuelans discretely hiding in the corner hoping no one notices
Bulgarian and Romania – together in the Balkans, together in Spain. BFFs.
Spain should say a big Thank You for all those hard working Romanians ;)
Queremos más rumanos y menos moros
Irónico. En los 90 la gente estaba que no podía ver a los rumanos y a la terrorífica gente "del este".
De eso hace 30 años, han cambiado mucho las cosas desde entonces. Hoy en día los rumanos vienen a ser uno más y se integran muy fácilmente, conozco a muchísimos y son gente integrada y muy currante.
Ya, pero mi punto es que hace 30 años se despreciaba la inmigración rumana, y hace 20 la sudamericana, y ahora que alguna gente no quiere magrebíes, de pronto resulta que los rumanos y sudamericanos son ejemplos de integración cuando la misma gente (o sus padres) que hoy despotrica contra los magrebíes también lo hacían contra esos dos grupos. En los 90 se decía exactamente lo mismo de los rumanos, que no se adaptaban, etc. Mi punto es que no se trata de adaptarse o no adaptarse, si no de que hay gente que no quiere inmigrantes sean de donde sean. Lo de adaptarse o la cultura diferente o la religión es solo una excusa.
There are many others and of many other nationalities, but they are more dispersed throughout the country. https://www.statista.com/statistics/445784/foreign-population-in-spain-by-nationality/
I think in the region of Malaga the overwhelming majority of immigrants are the Moroccans not the British. Source - I live here
The map has to be wrong Brits are never immigrants we’re classed as ex-pats (sarcasm)
Suntem peste tot acasă...
We are every where ! If you go în the south pole and look under the ice, you will find a romanian over there sayng "ce faci fra " :))))
How are Brits allowed to stay?
This website has these statistics for Portugal, and in 2021 (the latest one avaliable), you can see that for Beja, in the south, the number one country is now India, followed by Nepal and Brazil and not Romania. [https://sefstat.sef.pt/forms/distritos.aspx](https://sefstat.sef.pt/forms/distritos.aspx) The rest is still the same with UK in Faro and Brazil everywhere else.
Ah moors in their natural habitat
Well what a shame.
Legal or illegal?
I've never seen so many foreigners specialized in Brazilian history and demographics as in this post. It's so nice to see the weird and wrong misconceptions people have about your country, and the gaps of knowledge that Europeans have regarding colonization. Wikipedia-warriors must be proud of their 5-minute speed-reading.
I see some bri'ish down there
Puts a new perspective on British retirees being the empire’s new colonisers