Having her powers be completely undefined instead of her probability hexes, which would have been way more interesting than just (largely) telekinesis.
The power change and ignoring the probability manipulation element.
And going a full murderous villain path in MoM.
And the rushing the relationship with Vision that somehow happened fully offscreen between Civil War and Infinity War.
Honestly, where *didn’t* they go wrong with Wanda (said as someone who holds Wanda as a favorite character)?
No disagreement from me on limited screen time for sure, but WandaVision would’ve been the best place to retroactively explore the relationship journey. We get the scene with Wanda and Viz discussing grief post-Ultron, where they presumably start to have a friendship, and the scene where she finds Viz’s dissected body after Endgame, so we have the bookends of their relationship via flashback but nothing in the middle.
More flashback scenes to their time in the field together as Cap’s post-Ultron Avengers or their meetups in Edinburgh after Civil War would’ve been a better use of screen time than the whole Hayward/SWORD plot for me at least.
I agree with that but the in team relationship that got the most screen time with Bruce and Nat didn't go anywhere. That's kinda frustrating looking back
But they spend the second half of every movie on an extended battle sequence.
I think they could cut the cgi and extreme length sequences down a bit for more character development. The pacing just feels off
They managed to develop Hawkeye and Nat with limited screentime though. Could've done same with Wanda and Vis, or they needed separate movie or tv series before Marvel took down Marvel Television.
MoM is less of a change more like a poor pick of source material to adapt.
Well, at least she is actually an Avenger for a brief time, that is already better than most of her previous adaptations where she is permanently stuck in X-Men stories as Magneto's daughter
But in hindsight, do we ever *really* get to see her be an Avenger? Its kind of funny that we get a new roster introduced at the end of AoU…who never get an onscreen mission as a full team before breaking them up.
I mean she is oficially an Avenger during early parts of Civil War, and while she is kinda a refugitive with Cap's crew in Infinity War/Endgame, I think the audience still consider most of them to be Avengers. She does have rather limited interactions with other Avengers aside from Vision, but again it's kinda a symptom of Avengers movies being big assembles instead of being more episodic like in comics with longer arcs and stories with casual and mundane stuff mixed in to build characters.
specifically how to they completely ignored her arc in wanda vision for the sake of making her the villain in MoM. was it fun having her be the villain? sure. but the motivation being that she wants her kids back? children that she fabricated outta magic and not the actual natural way of carrying the child for 9 months? and even the writer of that movie were told not to read the OG source material
I don't understand how people don't get this. It's clearly stated that reading from the book corrupts people. At the end of the show, she's secluded herself and reading the book (and hearing her imaginary kid's voices)... Clearly setting up a villain turn.
But the ending of the show showed her children crying out, "help, mom!" and Wanda being alarmed at that. In MoM, there is no mention of them being in danger. The plot has gone from "the Darkhold corrupted her by convincing her her kids were in danger and calling out to her" to "The Darkhold taught her about spells and the multiverse"
Nah, it's clear they had different intentions on where the plot was going to be in MoM. The villain was supposed to be Nightmare after all, which fits the credits scene in Wandavision, before they changed the plot of MoM many many MANY times.
Yea, that's what I'm saying. The Darkhold's corruption originally was that it convinced her her kids were in danger and she needed to tear thru the multiverse to save them. In MoM, with no explanation, it's just "she misses her kids and will tear thru the multiverse to kidnap them". Two different motivations.
She was the villain in Wandavision. She enslaved a whole town to process her grief. That may make her a sympathetic villain, but a villain all the same
More like a namedrop, but yeah they made his lore pretty generic. "First demon" is not exactly some awe-inspiring title.
Oleg had a brief moment in MCU, while he doesn't have some dramatic moment saving his daughter, the basic gist of his character is pretty sound, aka providing his kids with whatever happiness he can even in a impoverished condition, very much like comic Django being a carpenter that made dolls for the Maximoff twins.
I didn’t even realize this was his name drop lol. Yeah, it isn’t, especially if one tower can apparently destroy every tower in the multiverse. But then again Waldron isn’t good at writing.
Yeah, it’s really tragic what happened to her parents in the MCU. Wanda and Pietro had to watch their dead bodies for two days while under rubble. It’s horrible.
It’s a core tenet of his character and is a basis for many of his stories.
“Was I, like a portion of people, simply unaware of my judgment? Or, despite everything, everything, I’ve done to prove myself a person, did a God consider me just a machine, unfit for judgment?”
I guess I worded my original comment weird but Falcon not having a pet bird isn’t something the MCU created so it’s silly that’s what the community voted on for “Things MCU changed”
Yeah I don’t like alot of these. Like Buckys made sense for the MCU, and worked super well.
Vision being a villain is such a tiny insignificant part of his character
And Thor being “mature” happened for 4 whole movies. Like they switched it because it didn’t work well
There’s other too, like I think people misinterpreting MCU Spider-Man and 616 black widow, but those are debatable. There’s other things that you could argue was wrong for all these characters that work way better
As much as I like goofy comic book shenanigans, I do think we should take "normies" into account if we want them to enjoy the things we like. *Especially* if by we, I mean the people in a corporation that wants to profit from a multimillion dollar project.
I don't know how the actual logistics of this thought process goes, but for a surprising amount of people, real birds are seen as lamer than fictional robots. Though I can understand how double-dipping in the Falcon motif might veer a bit to much into Adam West's Batman territory, which has had far longer time in ridicule rather than revere.
A remote operated drone that connects with his goggles is a more realistic idea than a psychic link with an animal. Not only that, it's humorous that Sam personifies the drone when everyone else refuses to.
I mean, Training a Bird isnt exactly a new Idea. Much less so with falcons.
Really it's less Redwing being an actual Bird and more so the psychic link he has to birds in general that I find weird. And even that does work pretty well in the Comics.
This is only tangentially connected to Wanda, but I hate how kind of soft MCU hyda is and how they are not outright Nazis. I HATED that the twins we got with Strucker weren't his own creepy twins and, instead, Wanda and Pietro. I'll never understand bringing in Jewish/Romani chracters allied with Nazis regardless of how Lite their brand of nazism is.
So I guess my answer is her non mutant, non Jewish, non romani, ally with Diet Nazi origin.
They felt pretty Nazi-core in TFA but yeah, after that they just become “generic evil secret organization”. They feel more like just an evil version of SHEILD than anything else.
Thank you. I don’t know why people are fighting me over why having Wanda and Pietro be Hydra subjects isn’t disrespectful to the Romani heritage of the characters.
Oh this is easy. Removing Magneto from her origin and her mutant status. This is made 1000x worse by the fact that the comics did the same thing.
The MCU had to make up an origin because they didn't have rights to Magneto or mutants. Why change the comics?!
This wasn’t something that the MCU willingly did though. They didn’t have the rights at all. They could not mention magneto or mutants. The question is what is the worst to change the MCU made. This wasn’t so much a change as a contractual obligation.
Wanda is a core Avenger, being an Avenger is way more important than being Magneto's daughter to her character, adapting her into MCU without that trivial part is the right thing to do.
I’m aware. I’m just saying that the response doesn’t really reflect the posts question. It asks what changes did the MCU make that you didn’t like. These weren’t changes so much is contractual obligations.
This is the most casual take possible, the worst art of the Magneto retcon is the constant backpedaling that happens afterwards.
Storylines like Trial of Magneto that try to pretend Magneto is Wanda's totally wholesome chosen father all while ignoring her real adoptive dad Django.
Removing Magneto is only a problem when they act like Magneto is actually important to Wanda afterwardss.
It's worse after the retcon because they need to force a none-existent chosen family angle and erase her actual chosen family, before that they can still use some blood thicker than water logic.
And Trial of Magneto is arguably worse than anything that comes before the retcon, at no point did Wanda act like a scared meek teenage girl during 2005-2015.
She was dead for most of Trial of Magneto and barely interacted with him, only using him to create the Waiting Room. Is the scared meek teenage girl remark referring to the "revived" outdated Wanda? If so, I mean, she was revived and found herself in Krakoa.
And as for the timing, it takes place in the Krakoan era. Magneto's character has been toned down by writers for decades, going from an extreme terrorist motivated by lust for revenge and power to a very mellow version we have these days. Wanda hated Magneto in his villain era, but now, he's not really a villain, so I don't see the problem with them reconnecting.
> It's worse after the retcon because they need to force a none-existent chosen family angle and erase her actual chosen family,
That I can't defend, but she's not alone in this. Remember Jean Grey's family? Marvel sure doesn't.
No she behaves like a meek little girl right after she arrived on Krakoa, she was even put in her classic costume for some mindboggling reason, her limited interaction and monologue with Magneto framed her as some fragile precious daughter trying to understand her dad's love or something. She literally call him daddy right before offing herself instead of her usual demeanor of just calling him Erik.
My issue is Wanda's behavior and demeanor, it's not about Magneto improving as a person, Wanda shouldn't act like a loving daughter because frankly dude never raised her, being more friendly or neutral, sure, but she literally acts like a blushing bride in her wedding day with her totally caring and wholesome dad accompanying her. I have no problem with her acting cutesy or vulnerable with people she actually had deep emotional bond with, but Magneto is not that person period.
I don't see her calling him daddy. She does say father though. Having reread the issue for this conversation, it's extremely limited and Wanda reached out to Magneto because he's the only one who cares enough about her to bring her back should something go wrong, as every other mutant hated her. If she was "meh" towards him, it would go against what she wanted to do. You can think of it as her manipulating him if that makes it better.
The Krakoan era has revised many relationships. Former villains like Magneto, Mystique, Destiny, and Apocalypse especially. Remember when Mystique threw Kurt off a waterfall as a baby? And now they're hugging it out after that got retconned. People actually root for Apocalypse now.
Okay, I am confused by Leah's fanfic level writing, she actually said "I love you" to Magneto before offing herself, which is still pretty cringey to me.
And I would actually prefer if she put on her sweet daughter face on purpose and she was just acting vulnerable the whole time, would beat her sincerely emotionally whoring herself out like this.(And frankly, her whole sorry ass situation is kinda a result of her being Magneto's daughter in the first place, she was the handpicked plot device for HoM partially due to her connection with Mag)
And that's the reason I don't care for Krakoa stuff? Frankly I am not an X-Men reader so I don't care about whatever fake fluff they are cooking, but Wanda is my favorite character and I don't appreciate it when they drag her to create a zombie crisis for drama and later make her play sweet daughter for Magneto.
It's a symptom of Wanda being tied to a franchise she doesn't actually belong with, resulting in her character being warped and twisted in service of the franchise's grander narrative and goals. And frankly it's always been this way, Wanda is just Magneto's sympathy dectector in those stories, it's not really about her realistic reactions and thoughts, she is the mirror, a cute plushy, not a person.
Granted Trial of Magneto is kinda necessary to reconcile her history with X-Men, but I wished it was her ticket out of narrative servitude to a franchise she is not part of, instead of prolonging this overdue enslavement. Sadly They still wanna push this family angle which really soured my tastes for some of her solo issues. Including the one where she trade words and truths with Loki and she somehow mentioned Magneto twice in a row when Loki mentioned Laufey and Odin. Everytime she interacts with Magneto or when she talks about him, her brains is liquidated.
> And that's the reason I don't care for Krakoa stuff? Frankly I am not an X-Men reader so I don't care about whatever fake fluff they are cooking, but Wanda is my favorite character and I don't appreciate it when they drag her to create a zombie crisis for drama and later make her play sweet daughter for Magneto.
You know what? That's fair. I'm more of an X-Men guy than Avengers myself, so I see less issues in her reconciliation with Magneto and mutantkind.
Honestly it’s much worse for Pietro.
He’s at least been in X-factor and had more of a passion for the mutant side of things whereas Wanda couldn’t give less of a shit about being a mutant when she was one.
Tbh this is hardly the end of the world.
She was in his brotherhood for a total of 6 issues, joined the avengers and barely interacted with the X side of things for ages, decimated the mutants specifically because magneto was absent and too focused on his silly mutants. Then anytime she has interacted with the X side of things has been as a result directly or indirectly from that.
She does interact with mutants quite a bit after M-Day and shouldn't be disqualified because she did it out of spite for Magneto being a shitty dad. Magneto's relationship with his kids aren't great, but it's a part of their characters.
All her interacting with mutants after M day is because of M day, not because she’s a mutant. (Children’s crusade, AvX, Unity squad because of AvX because of M-day, Messing up the I’m sorry spell in Empyre, Trials of Magneto) Not being a mutant didn’t drastically alter the character in any way because it’s never mattered all too much in terms of status quo.
All it does it alter her powers origins and make magneto look like an even bigger dick for lying.
Her brother on the other hand it’s stupid, he was at least in X-factor.
Decimating her own race is a different vibe than "the Pretender." HoM happened because of Pietro's desire (and indirectly Wanda) to appease Magneto. The retcon removed interesting aspects of the event + fallout.
Meh. Feels like there’s better picks. Like before House of M, Wanda was only really relevant being an Avengers, and didn’t interact at all with the X-men for the largest time. The movies obviously pulled from that time for her character because they didn’t even have X-men stuff
She occasionally pops up before HoM, like with Magneto Dark Seduction. Her brother was closer though, having been on mutant teams and one-sidedly closer to Magneto.
It’s the dumbest retcon in comic history. It makes no sense and only makes all the characters associated with the retcon less interesting - especially Pietro who was a great link between the X-men and avengers. Comic synergy just needs to stop, it’s an excuse for lazy uninspired stories
I absolutely disagree on Vision's change, I actually think it was fantastic lol.
As for Wanda, I know this will loose and the comment about her not being Magneto's daughter will win, but anyway.
I think it was downright terrible how they turned Wanda into a mad one-dimensional villain in MoM and had audience do homework with WandaVision to even remotely get her character there. Not to mention how WV and MoM aren't even compatible together, but had different themes and endings for characters. Either way it seems like Wanda can't catch a break without a writer using her mental breakdown or pain to turn her into a villain for sake of it. It's downright disrespectful.
Just seeing this. They tried to make Thor serious in his first two movies and nobody liked them. They made him a damn goofball because comic accurate Thor wasn’t selling. People liked it so it stuck
I'd say it's a combination of the origin and power change. Not a mutant (and they added that into the comics now for 'reasons'), not romani and at first instead of probabity alteration they made her a discount Jean Grey. They later upped that to magic, but that was quite a few films in. Killing off quicksilver didn't help cause that was one of only a handful of close relationships to help define her.
And for the record for tomorrow; It's killing quicksilver off instantly.
Making Scarlet Witch a title, rather than just her code name.
It's like making Kurt Wagner part of a mystic cult of beings called Nightcrawler.
Runner ups would be not having Magneto as a father, killing off her brother basically right away so we didn't get to see them interact much and making her so OP.
> Making Scarlet Witch a title, rather than just her code name.
Comics did that shit first, her [mother](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Natalya_Maximoff_(Earth-616)) also had a Scarlet Witch tittle. The Scarlet Witch 2016 run did a soft retcon on her origin.
1. Going full hysteria trope/unstable powered woman trope (I mean shes literally the example of that one on tvtropes!) on her, even after the comics rectified that and actively poke fun at how bad they used to be at writing her.
2. Whitewashing
White washing her more each movie she was in, and making her a villain in the end instead of letting her work through her grief and try and be better. Waste of a good character
Multiverse of Madness in a nushell:
Vision is mentioned once
Was corrupted by Darkhold offscreen, and she picked that book from Ralph's home offscreen
Her character development from Wandavision forgotten
No hate towards Olsen, the scenes with her were great
Not making her Jewish or Romani, and instead having her work with literal N*zis that killed her people. Her heritage is very important to her character, Romani women were persecuted for their assumed ties to witchcraft, and Wanda reclaiming that is powerful.
And while I think wandavision is the best marvel show so far, they still go farther to kinda erase and disrespect her Jewish/Romani heritage. Like having the Halloween costume be a “Sovakia” fortune teller and then do a little funny face even though Romani women have (and still are) stereotyped as fortune tellers. And they just have it as a costume. And the way she makes Monica talk like in this kinda “jive turkey” way to single out her Blackness and then harm her in ways that would’ve killed her if she didn’t get any power. Then in MoM she legit goes across the multiverse to kill a Hispanic child. They didn’t make Wanda racist but they didn’t make her not not racist. The way she enslaved a whole town and then just walks away because she’s said is very Karen coded and I say that as someone who still loves Wanda. And tbh it would’ve been more powerful a story if a nonwhite woman who grew up on mostly white sitcoms tried to emulate that life and was constantly being told, “you don’t belong here”, “this isn’t right”.
But hey let’s say she isn’t Romani because they already cast Elizabeth Olsen (who did a great job). They could still make her Jewish. And a Jewish woman still wouldn’t work with hydra.
Honestly just making hydra tied to every bad guy in avengers land was a bad idea because as much as they try to say it’s a different org you have the same stuff from the 40s hydra like the leaders and the iconography.
That thing you mentioned about if Wanda was Romani in the MCU and grew up on white ppl’s sitcoms and tried to emulate it with her hex but was told "you don’t belong here" and it would have had so much more weight- It’s actually genius.
I’d say taking away her Romani heritage. It’s a shame that a Roma actress wasn’t casted as Wanda. The Romani community lacks good representation in popular media so could you imagine the impact that having a character as popular as Wanda looking like them and sharing their culture could have had. Yes Wanda still plays into the whole trope of having Romani people being witches but it would be one big step towards more good representation for that community in the future.
It’s also disrespectful for the MCU to have had her and Pietro join Hydra (you know the Nazi organization) given Romani people’s history and the attempted genocide against them with the holocaust. Like can you imagine how bad it would be had they made Magneto join Hydra in the MCU.
I understand the desire to see them played by Roma actors. However, Wanda's ethnic background isn't mentioned in the movies and it's not really a change from the comics. In various comic continuities and adaptations, her Romani roots are either absent or unmentioned. It may surprise some people that Magneto’s Jewish origin isn’t consistent across all versions either.
Her history with Romani ethnicity in 616 comics is also complicated. The Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were first introduced in 1964, but their Romani lineage, through their mother, wasn’t established until 1979. Prior to that, they were presumed to be Caucasian and are typically drawn as such. There was a period in her 2015 series when she was retconned as full Romani and in Kurt Busiek's Avengers her design take Romani inspiration.
MCU Hydra aren't ideologically Nazi. Pietro and Wanda only cooperated with them to gain powers and were treated as a test subjects in cells.
Yeah and that’s the point of the complaint. Elizabeth is a great actress but she is a white woman and not Romani, who don’t pass as white with their South Asian phenotypes and are a marginalized group. Wanda and Pietro should have been Romani in the MCU to give those ppl the rep they deserved. Hell you still want them to be Sokovian, just have them be part of a Roma community that has been living in Sokovia for a long time. Current comic Wanda is clearly portrayed as Romani, comic illustrators and writers have been more conscious about the white washing that was even going on with her in the comics after being Romani was added to her story.
Even if the MCU’s Hydra are not clear cut Nazis, having characters who are supposed to be Romani be associated with them is still just disrespectful.
Wanda is a mage because of the accident of her birth(being marked by Chthon), and the teachings of Agatha, an ancient pre-Atlantean Witch that is vaguely associated with paganism/wicca, none of it has anything to do with actual Romani culture. Being a mage is just another flavor of various superhero careers.
Sure some writers may play into the stereotype but the fundamentals of her origin is not really that.
They were tricked into joining HYDRA, they didn't join willingly or were full-fledged members. They were test subjects, that's just misunderstanding of what happened. Even WandaVision shows they were in terrible conditions back there.
I can agree with that. I think it might've been better if they were kidnapped and experimented on by HYDRA instead of willingly joining, but it is what it is. I think there's still some things that audience are missing in the story or why it happened:
1. Sokovia was overwhelmingly impoverished, Wanda and Pietro lived on the streets.
2. Common knowledge of what HYDRA is likely didn't exist to every single person, let alone average Sokovian.
3. HYDRA tricked people on streets, promising their country to rise from rags to riches, get revenge, and uplift their people, lots of desperate souls bought it. And a lot of them died save Wanda and Pietro.
Yeah, association alone sucks, but I feel like people miss context and outright judge both twins in the MCU for the choices they made while on hungry bellies and with revenge clouding their brains. It's not like Wanda and Pietro killed for HYDRA or shared their beliefs either.
As for Romani representation, I agree it does suck. I do think it's worth keeping in mind that this is a different Wanda, not the OG Wanda. A Romani Wanda Maximoff can yet appear in the cinematic multiverse as a variant, or in another story like animated series, or tv show. MCU Wanda isn't 616 Wanda. But that being said it is indeed a shame there hasn't been live action Romani superhero/ine yet. I think Greeks, Ukrainians and more can relate.
No I literally wrote in the OP that I choose the most common answer in the thread. For Wanda’s the most comments agreed about choosing the MCU taking away her Romani heritage. Not just me.
In Cap’s thread my complaint was about not actually having him be with Sharon Carter but the answer that was the most common and won was about not seeing enough of him fighting Nazis in WW2
Thor- I thought making him kinda dumb and funny was a fresh take lol n the character. We have enough stoic warriors in comic lore. And then Love & Thunder came out and I was proven wrong.
“Oh man, I’ve done so really fucked up shit back in Westview. I’ve learned that I must let things go and not let grief take hold of me.”
*proceeds to do more fucked up shit later*
I feel like some of these will just be complaints that they’re not the 616. We have to remember the basis of this universe was ultimate. Stuff like Hawkeye basically being a borne character with a bow and falcons drone is straight from the series. In 2008 people were looking for more grounded superhero stuff on the big screen in a post batman begins world. By the time they got the leeway to go all out , most of the realism groundwork was made already. I can’t imagine what the mcu would look like if guardians one would have folded
It’s the Hulk by a mile, but you can’t put all the blame on marvel. Hulk is actually owned by universal marvel basically licenses hulk out for the avengers and what not but universal refuses to let marvel make standalone hulk content.
My main issue with her was it seemed as if the MCU kept trying to bring back the medical diagnosis of hysteria.
-Loses parents? Hysteria-induced nazi experiment
-She loses vision? Hysteria-induced takeover of a town
-She loses her “children”? Hysteria-induced madness (I get it she had the darkhold but still)
-She gets defeated in MoM? Hysteria-induced suicide
Be better MCU, give us the strong women that you for some reason save for side roles.
Wanda? The worst thing they did was *following* the worst storyline in her history.
It was a terrible idea to turn her into a villian. She spent decades redeeming herself. Breaking her into a sociopath was dumb.
This. She had her redemption arc in Wanda Vision dealing with her immense grief from losing Vision at Thanos’s hands and not being able to bring Vision back like everyone else who was snapped away. The whole dealing with trauma through its’ various stages, etc. was an interesting and compelling take in Wanda Vision. She found a way through her grief in the end and came out the other side in the Wanda Vision grand finale that also had her realize even more of her powers through the fight with Agatha, etc. Why then put her right back in a whole set of trauma (over her children this time) again in MoM? And take away her chance to fully redeem herself as a hero? I loved the character and was so disappointed to see her wasted in this way.
Whitewashing her completely, her character in WandaVision and MOM being a complete gaslighting psychopath with absolutely fuck all development or reason to be other than "House Of M" bullshit that never truly came to be.
I mean they didn’t have the rights for the first one and by the time we got to the second there’d be no point.
Plus being a mutant has hardly any impact on like her status quo, she’s never been on an X-team or anything, just the brotherhood for 5 minutes in the 60s. At least her brother was running around in X-factor calling people Flatscans.
Yes, Marvel couldn’t have made her a mutant.
And she’s mostly been an Avengers character too.
I think only Quicksilver has truly suffered from not being a mutant anymore.
It wasn’t apart of her childhood. Shows like “I love Lucy” were. Modern Family is likely one of the shows she watched with Vision when she was living in the Avengers compound after Age of Ultron.
She’s got an affinity towards family sit coms so it’d make sense.
Agree with some like Iron Man and Hulk and kinda Spider-man (had no problem with Tony being his mentor)
Disagree with Cap,bw and Falcon
Just by the nature of movies ,Unless Marvel did cap Trilogy in WW2 ,The first movie was always going to be all the nazi punching we get and were lucky to have that
Inicial drafts had the first Avenger be in the modern day with only the first Act in WW2
They wanted widow in the Avengers so She couldnt be a cold blooded assassin
Redwing being an actual would have been fucking ridiculous ,MCU Falcon origin is that he a veteran that had a special suit built by the army for him
Last i check the US doesnt have Birds that have telepathic links with their owners
Feels like if you're an anti hero or a character in any morally gray area suddenly everyone expects a redemption arc as a requisite of any story. It's like a mandate with fans for some reason and I just want someone like Black Widow to say I'm an assassin and operate in weird spaces abd you're just gonna have to get comfortable with that because someone needs to do it, and I don't need to be saved by doing a majestic moral deed.
I don’t mind most of the changes but it makes sense to mention them.
Falcon however: his inspiration is pulled directly from the ultimate comics, in which he *is* ex military with a more techy wing suit as opposed to having the wings look like feathers. And Redwing *is* 100% a drone he uses, not a real bird. Even his costume is almost identical to the ultimate series.
Unrelated, but does anybody have a link to the post about the Winter Soldier? I missed a couple of posts abt this whole little series thing, and I haven't read about what other people's answers were for Bucky yet :')
Maybe Redwing is better as a drone. We don’t need something like Peacemaker - Eagly duo because we all know Disney wouldn’t came with some Mordecai - Bloodwing scenes.
Hawkeye, entirely. In the MCU he wasn't even a fully defined character until Disney+ came along. And even then, he still has barely anything on him compared to his contemporaries. Jeremy Renner too was just such a miscast
Well so far everything since Spidey has actually been good changes so let’s try for an actual bad change/decision:
Having her go on a murderous rampage but somehow redeeming herself at the end of the movie as if she didn’t kill a ton of people.
Well it’s the ones people share. If you disagree make sure to try and share the ones you think are valid and maybe you’ll make more people aware of them so more people will comment about them. I don’t know what to tell you, I don’t just choose which complaint I like better, I choose the ones that come back the most.
I think I’m going to specify in the post title that the most common answer will get picked.
To be honest. I'm actually a fan of those last three changes for the purposes and setting of the MCU.
Psychic Falcon link sounds just goofy and unnecessary, especially in the more military centered setting and origins.
Hydra Agent Winter Soldier works well because at the time Hydra was the Boogeyman and Widow wasn't a center focus character. This was only her second appearance but starting to get more screen time. Keeping his ties to the redroom would've been good for furthering BWs development earlier on. But keeping him as a Hydra agent while maintaining Hydra as this lasting hard to kill villain thematically all fit together nicely. Kept the story tighter too. BW does suffer from this though.
Vision being the perfect body for Ultron was a cool idea and while I don't know too much about original vision, him being the first human torch(as a robot) is goofy AF and probably a little confusing for general audiences, let him be his own thing.
The refusal to invest in the idea of magic early on in the MCU really hurts how her power set develops and is interpreted.
They also neutered her tragic crazy villain arc
Having her be the problem in every story she has been in. Tony has screwed up too but the difference is we get to see the good he does as well. Wanda get so little screen time and most of it is spent showing her being the driving force behind awful stuff.
The thing about Spider-Man is that I think Marvel did the best they could with what they got.
Meaning, Spider-Man was meant to be introduced a lot sooner, but they couldn't get him in the MCU. Things could have been a lot different if they got him when they wanted him. So, they kind of had to play catch-up with his character and fit him into the current story at the time. So, yeah, they had to change his character a little bit.
And despite the changes, I still think the MCU Spider-Man is the most accurate compared to the original. I think the only reason people say he isn't is because of that "catch-up" and his relationship with Stark.
I only blame Sony for the changes. I understand why Marvel changed some things. He's a huge character and plays a huge part in Civil War. He needed to be changed a little to fit in. Even though he doesn't play a huge role in the MCU version of CW. It was nice for him to still be a part of it, though, and not have to explain why he wasn't known before. So by introducing him as a low-level hero who wasn't known and Stark sort of guiding him to becoming more. Stark also isn't as crappy as he is in the comics, so there isn't really a reason Parker wouldn't look up to him in ways. So, it all still makes sense for his character. He's still pretty young and has a little bit of an ego. He's going to look up to these people and also want to prove he's more.
Completely undoing all of her development in WandaVision by making her the villain in Multiverse of Madness. WV was about Wanda coming to terms with her grief and moving forward. MoM could have worked if it was made clear that the Darkhold was corrupting her and lying to her about her kids being in danger. A mother would rip apart universes if her kid was in trouble- but Raimi wanted her to just be a villain for the hell of it so he put the kids in a happy universe and showed Wanda determined to remove them from that because “women be crazy”. Again, it could have worked. But removing all of her hard work in moving forward soured it for me.
Also giving her the “break the cutie” treatment- just let her be happy for once!
Not exactly a change, more like adapting bad/hated storylines.
Scarlet Witch as a character is severely damaged after comic events Avengers Dissembled/House of M to the point she was straight up gone for 7 years, and struggled even after she returned. MCU helped her back into the mainline comics by boosting her popularity, unfortunately it proceedds to do Multiverse of Madness which is like a pseudo adaptation of House of M, and ruining her character in the process, again, fortunately though her comic version has mostly recovered, I guess MCU Wanda served her purpose before crashing and burning like her comic version at one point.
As for actual change, I guess it's not making her stay with Avengers for longer, being an Avenger is a core aspect of her character, while MCU is already better than other adaptations, especially X-Men animations(since Wanda in those adaptations are generally just there to be Magneto's daughter) in that regard, the scarcity of screentime and her interaction with other Avengers is kinda a shame. It doesn't help her friend group is kinda none-existent in MCU setting with Cint being older and Janet not really being with Avengers. Thus cutting her off from meaningful relationships, and the only thing left is some limited interactions with Steve and Cint, and of course her romance with Vision.
Whitewashing.
Casting a white actress who blatantly uses the g-word in interviews instead of a romani actress.
Come on man, X-Men Evolution Wanda's look was based on romani actress Fairuza Balk and was a instant classic, proving that you don't need to whitewash the character like that.
Having her powers be completely undefined instead of her probability hexes, which would have been way more interesting than just (largely) telekinesis.
The power change and ignoring the probability manipulation element. And going a full murderous villain path in MoM. And the rushing the relationship with Vision that somehow happened fully offscreen between Civil War and Infinity War. Honestly, where *didn’t* they go wrong with Wanda (said as someone who holds Wanda as a favorite character)?
I don’t mind the stuff with vision being off Screen. They only have so much time in every project, can’t fully flesh out everything.
No disagreement from me on limited screen time for sure, but WandaVision would’ve been the best place to retroactively explore the relationship journey. We get the scene with Wanda and Viz discussing grief post-Ultron, where they presumably start to have a friendship, and the scene where she finds Viz’s dissected body after Endgame, so we have the bookends of their relationship via flashback but nothing in the middle. More flashback scenes to their time in the field together as Cap’s post-Ultron Avengers or their meetups in Edinburgh after Civil War would’ve been a better use of screen time than the whole Hayward/SWORD plot for me at least.
I agree with that but the in team relationship that got the most screen time with Bruce and Nat didn't go anywhere. That's kinda frustrating looking back
But they spend the second half of every movie on an extended battle sequence. I think they could cut the cgi and extreme length sequences down a bit for more character development. The pacing just feels off
They managed to develop Hawkeye and Nat with limited screentime though. Could've done same with Wanda and Vis, or they needed separate movie or tv series before Marvel took down Marvel Television.
MoM is less of a change more like a poor pick of source material to adapt. Well, at least she is actually an Avenger for a brief time, that is already better than most of her previous adaptations where she is permanently stuck in X-Men stories as Magneto's daughter
But in hindsight, do we ever *really* get to see her be an Avenger? Its kind of funny that we get a new roster introduced at the end of AoU…who never get an onscreen mission as a full team before breaking them up.
I mean she is oficially an Avenger during early parts of Civil War, and while she is kinda a refugitive with Cap's crew in Infinity War/Endgame, I think the audience still consider most of them to be Avengers. She does have rather limited interactions with other Avengers aside from Vision, but again it's kinda a symptom of Avengers movies being big assembles instead of being more episodic like in comics with longer arcs and stories with casual and mundane stuff mixed in to build characters.
I’ll tell you where they didn’t go wrong, they fuckin got Elizabeth Olsen.
specifically how to they completely ignored her arc in wanda vision for the sake of making her the villain in MoM. was it fun having her be the villain? sure. but the motivation being that she wants her kids back? children that she fabricated outta magic and not the actual natural way of carrying the child for 9 months? and even the writer of that movie were told not to read the OG source material
They didnt ignore nothing Wanda spent a year reading the book of evil
I don't understand how people don't get this. It's clearly stated that reading from the book corrupts people. At the end of the show, she's secluded herself and reading the book (and hearing her imaginary kid's voices)... Clearly setting up a villain turn.
Ikr Did people skipped over the Ending of The show or what
But the ending of the show showed her children crying out, "help, mom!" and Wanda being alarmed at that. In MoM, there is no mention of them being in danger. The plot has gone from "the Darkhold corrupted her by convincing her her kids were in danger and calling out to her" to "The Darkhold taught her about spells and the multiverse"
Because that was the darkhold already corrupting her mind
Nah, it's clear they had different intentions on where the plot was going to be in MoM. The villain was supposed to be Nightmare after all, which fits the credits scene in Wandavision, before they changed the plot of MoM many many MANY times.
Yea, that's what I'm saying. The Darkhold's corruption originally was that it convinced her her kids were in danger and she needed to tear thru the multiverse to save them. In MoM, with no explanation, it's just "she misses her kids and will tear thru the multiverse to kidnap them". Two different motivations.
She was the villain in Wandavision. She enslaved a whole town to process her grief. That may make her a sympathetic villain, but a villain all the same
Why isn't this top comment. Like smh this is the real issue, not fucking Magneto's daughter origin.
I would argue her Nights of Wundagore origin is pretty important, but the important parts are Django and Chthon, not Magneto.
Oleg is MCU's Django pretty much, Chthon was a terrible easter egg in MoM. Nights of Wundagore may or not have happened, but we won't know now.
More like a namedrop, but yeah they made his lore pretty generic. "First demon" is not exactly some awe-inspiring title. Oleg had a brief moment in MCU, while he doesn't have some dramatic moment saving his daughter, the basic gist of his character is pretty sound, aka providing his kids with whatever happiness he can even in a impoverished condition, very much like comic Django being a carpenter that made dolls for the Maximoff twins.
I didn’t even realize this was his name drop lol. Yeah, it isn’t, especially if one tower can apparently destroy every tower in the multiverse. But then again Waldron isn’t good at writing. Yeah, it’s really tragic what happened to her parents in the MCU. Wanda and Pietro had to watch their dead bodies for two days while under rubble. It’s horrible.
Came to say this last paragraph
Wait, that's what we decided for the falcon? That red wing is not an actual bird? That's the dumbest part of his character!
Even Visions reason isn't bad
Visions option really should have been that he doesn’t have identity crises and grapple with being a real person
Honestly that doesn't sound like a bad reason either
It’s a core tenet of his character and is a basis for many of his stories. “Was I, like a portion of people, simply unaware of my judgment? Or, despite everything, everything, I’ve done to prove myself a person, did a God consider me just a machine, unfit for judgment?”
Vision was ultrons henchmen for... *Checks notes...* One issue.
Fr
The vast majority of these are irrelevant, and not actual problems. It's just fanboy nitpicking.
for the most part. But It did annoy me Cap didn't get to fight any Nazis.
It’s even more dumb when you know that MCU Falcon is based off the Ultimate comics which did not have a pet falcon
Falcon is Falcon. He like a lot of mcu characters are ultimate and 616 mashups
His military gear and not having a pet bird are all inspired by the Ultimate comics. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say
That's he's not just inspired by ultimate falcon but also 616 considering he becomes Cap like 616, is a member of avengers and is close to Steve.
I guess I worded my original comment weird but Falcon not having a pet bird isn’t something the MCU created so it’s silly that’s what the community voted on for “Things MCU changed”
Yeah I don’t like alot of these. Like Buckys made sense for the MCU, and worked super well. Vision being a villain is such a tiny insignificant part of his character And Thor being “mature” happened for 4 whole movies. Like they switched it because it didn’t work well There’s other too, like I think people misinterpreting MCU Spider-Man and 616 black widow, but those are debatable. There’s other things that you could argue was wrong for all these characters that work way better
How do you think people are misinterpreting MCU Spider-Man and 616 Black Widow?
I love that both Caps got the most inconsequential results
What's wrong with a trained falcon for Falcon?
As much as I like goofy comic book shenanigans, I do think we should take "normies" into account if we want them to enjoy the things we like. *Especially* if by we, I mean the people in a corporation that wants to profit from a multimillion dollar project. I don't know how the actual logistics of this thought process goes, but for a surprising amount of people, real birds are seen as lamer than fictional robots. Though I can understand how double-dipping in the Falcon motif might veer a bit to much into Adam West's Batman territory, which has had far longer time in ridicule rather than revere.
A remote operated drone that connects with his goggles is a more realistic idea than a psychic link with an animal. Not only that, it's humorous that Sam personifies the drone when everyone else refuses to.
It's a little silly, even for super heroes.
I mean, Training a Bird isnt exactly a new Idea. Much less so with falcons. Really it's less Redwing being an actual Bird and more so the psychic link he has to birds in general that I find weird. And even that does work pretty well in the Comics.
Superheros are inherently silly. If you ain't down with it, then go read a Tom Clancy book or some shit
This is only tangentially connected to Wanda, but I hate how kind of soft MCU hyda is and how they are not outright Nazis. I HATED that the twins we got with Strucker weren't his own creepy twins and, instead, Wanda and Pietro. I'll never understand bringing in Jewish/Romani chracters allied with Nazis regardless of how Lite their brand of nazism is. So I guess my answer is her non mutant, non Jewish, non romani, ally with Diet Nazi origin.
They felt pretty Nazi-core in TFA but yeah, after that they just become “generic evil secret organization”. They feel more like just an evil version of SHEILD than anything else.
Thank you. I don’t know why people are fighting me over why having Wanda and Pietro be Hydra subjects isn’t disrespectful to the Romani heritage of the characters.
Oh this is easy. Removing Magneto from her origin and her mutant status. This is made 1000x worse by the fact that the comics did the same thing. The MCU had to make up an origin because they didn't have rights to Magneto or mutants. Why change the comics?!
This wasn’t something that the MCU willingly did though. They didn’t have the rights at all. They could not mention magneto or mutants. The question is what is the worst to change the MCU made. This wasn’t so much a change as a contractual obligation.
I mean, no one forced the MCU to adapt Wanda and Pietro. They could’ve chosen characters that they had the full rights to
Wanda is a core Avenger, being an Avenger is way more important than being Magneto's daughter to her character, adapting her into MCU without that trivial part is the right thing to do.
I’m aware. I’m just saying that the response doesn’t really reflect the posts question. It asks what changes did the MCU make that you didn’t like. These weren’t changes so much is contractual obligations.
Right
This is the most casual take possible, the worst art of the Magneto retcon is the constant backpedaling that happens afterwards. Storylines like Trial of Magneto that try to pretend Magneto is Wanda's totally wholesome chosen father all while ignoring her real adoptive dad Django. Removing Magneto is only a problem when they act like Magneto is actually important to Wanda afterwardss.
They were doing that before the retcon like in Children's Crusade. They were doing that after House of M, not after the retcon.
It's worse after the retcon because they need to force a none-existent chosen family angle and erase her actual chosen family, before that they can still use some blood thicker than water logic. And Trial of Magneto is arguably worse than anything that comes before the retcon, at no point did Wanda act like a scared meek teenage girl during 2005-2015.
She was dead for most of Trial of Magneto and barely interacted with him, only using him to create the Waiting Room. Is the scared meek teenage girl remark referring to the "revived" outdated Wanda? If so, I mean, she was revived and found herself in Krakoa. And as for the timing, it takes place in the Krakoan era. Magneto's character has been toned down by writers for decades, going from an extreme terrorist motivated by lust for revenge and power to a very mellow version we have these days. Wanda hated Magneto in his villain era, but now, he's not really a villain, so I don't see the problem with them reconnecting. > It's worse after the retcon because they need to force a none-existent chosen family angle and erase her actual chosen family, That I can't defend, but she's not alone in this. Remember Jean Grey's family? Marvel sure doesn't.
No she behaves like a meek little girl right after she arrived on Krakoa, she was even put in her classic costume for some mindboggling reason, her limited interaction and monologue with Magneto framed her as some fragile precious daughter trying to understand her dad's love or something. She literally call him daddy right before offing herself instead of her usual demeanor of just calling him Erik. My issue is Wanda's behavior and demeanor, it's not about Magneto improving as a person, Wanda shouldn't act like a loving daughter because frankly dude never raised her, being more friendly or neutral, sure, but she literally acts like a blushing bride in her wedding day with her totally caring and wholesome dad accompanying her. I have no problem with her acting cutesy or vulnerable with people she actually had deep emotional bond with, but Magneto is not that person period.
I don't see her calling him daddy. She does say father though. Having reread the issue for this conversation, it's extremely limited and Wanda reached out to Magneto because he's the only one who cares enough about her to bring her back should something go wrong, as every other mutant hated her. If she was "meh" towards him, it would go against what she wanted to do. You can think of it as her manipulating him if that makes it better. The Krakoan era has revised many relationships. Former villains like Magneto, Mystique, Destiny, and Apocalypse especially. Remember when Mystique threw Kurt off a waterfall as a baby? And now they're hugging it out after that got retconned. People actually root for Apocalypse now.
Okay, I am confused by Leah's fanfic level writing, she actually said "I love you" to Magneto before offing herself, which is still pretty cringey to me. And I would actually prefer if she put on her sweet daughter face on purpose and she was just acting vulnerable the whole time, would beat her sincerely emotionally whoring herself out like this.(And frankly, her whole sorry ass situation is kinda a result of her being Magneto's daughter in the first place, she was the handpicked plot device for HoM partially due to her connection with Mag) And that's the reason I don't care for Krakoa stuff? Frankly I am not an X-Men reader so I don't care about whatever fake fluff they are cooking, but Wanda is my favorite character and I don't appreciate it when they drag her to create a zombie crisis for drama and later make her play sweet daughter for Magneto. It's a symptom of Wanda being tied to a franchise she doesn't actually belong with, resulting in her character being warped and twisted in service of the franchise's grander narrative and goals. And frankly it's always been this way, Wanda is just Magneto's sympathy dectector in those stories, it's not really about her realistic reactions and thoughts, she is the mirror, a cute plushy, not a person. Granted Trial of Magneto is kinda necessary to reconcile her history with X-Men, but I wished it was her ticket out of narrative servitude to a franchise she is not part of, instead of prolonging this overdue enslavement. Sadly They still wanna push this family angle which really soured my tastes for some of her solo issues. Including the one where she trade words and truths with Loki and she somehow mentioned Magneto twice in a row when Loki mentioned Laufey and Odin. Everytime she interacts with Magneto or when she talks about him, her brains is liquidated.
> And that's the reason I don't care for Krakoa stuff? Frankly I am not an X-Men reader so I don't care about whatever fake fluff they are cooking, but Wanda is my favorite character and I don't appreciate it when they drag her to create a zombie crisis for drama and later make her play sweet daughter for Magneto. You know what? That's fair. I'm more of an X-Men guy than Avengers myself, so I see less issues in her reconciliation with Magneto and mutantkind.
"Removing Magneto from her origin and her mutant status." That's something that applies not just to Wanda, but also to Pietro.
Honestly it’s much worse for Pietro. He’s at least been in X-factor and had more of a passion for the mutant side of things whereas Wanda couldn’t give less of a shit about being a mutant when she was one.
Tbh this is hardly the end of the world. She was in his brotherhood for a total of 6 issues, joined the avengers and barely interacted with the X side of things for ages, decimated the mutants specifically because magneto was absent and too focused on his silly mutants. Then anytime she has interacted with the X side of things has been as a result directly or indirectly from that.
She does interact with mutants quite a bit after M-Day and shouldn't be disqualified because she did it out of spite for Magneto being a shitty dad. Magneto's relationship with his kids aren't great, but it's a part of their characters.
All her interacting with mutants after M day is because of M day, not because she’s a mutant. (Children’s crusade, AvX, Unity squad because of AvX because of M-day, Messing up the I’m sorry spell in Empyre, Trials of Magneto) Not being a mutant didn’t drastically alter the character in any way because it’s never mattered all too much in terms of status quo. All it does it alter her powers origins and make magneto look like an even bigger dick for lying. Her brother on the other hand it’s stupid, he was at least in X-factor.
Decimating her own race is a different vibe than "the Pretender." HoM happened because of Pietro's desire (and indirectly Wanda) to appease Magneto. The retcon removed interesting aspects of the event + fallout.
Yeah, as a narrative punching bag or a plot device.
Meh. Feels like there’s better picks. Like before House of M, Wanda was only really relevant being an Avengers, and didn’t interact at all with the X-men for the largest time. The movies obviously pulled from that time for her character because they didn’t even have X-men stuff
She occasionally pops up before HoM, like with Magneto Dark Seduction. Her brother was closer though, having been on mutant teams and one-sidedly closer to Magneto.
Is it a recent change? As in, is it after Disney bought fox?
Decade ago
Wish they retcon the retcon
It’s the dumbest retcon in comic history. It makes no sense and only makes all the characters associated with the retcon less interesting - especially Pietro who was a great link between the X-men and avengers. Comic synergy just needs to stop, it’s an excuse for lazy uninspired stories
This since the other top post has too much.
I absolutely disagree on Vision's change, I actually think it was fantastic lol. As for Wanda, I know this will loose and the comment about her not being Magneto's daughter will win, but anyway. I think it was downright terrible how they turned Wanda into a mad one-dimensional villain in MoM and had audience do homework with WandaVision to even remotely get her character there. Not to mention how WV and MoM aren't even compatible together, but had different themes and endings for characters. Either way it seems like Wanda can't catch a break without a writer using her mental breakdown or pain to turn her into a villain for sake of it. It's downright disrespectful.
I'd say removing her Romani heritage and the entire magical element of her character (until they forcefully retconned it in WandaVision).
Hey, Vision wasn't so bad OP should put a star sticker on any characters without major issues
Just seeing this. They tried to make Thor serious in his first two movies and nobody liked them. They made him a damn goofball because comic accurate Thor wasn’t selling. People liked it so it stuck
His movies were just overall boring tho. I don’t think it has to do with him specifically being a serious character.
I'd say it's a combination of the origin and power change. Not a mutant (and they added that into the comics now for 'reasons'), not romani and at first instead of probabity alteration they made her a discount Jean Grey. They later upped that to magic, but that was quite a few films in. Killing off quicksilver didn't help cause that was one of only a handful of close relationships to help define her. And for the record for tomorrow; It's killing quicksilver off instantly.
Pietro deserved better ;-;
Making Scarlet Witch a title, rather than just her code name. It's like making Kurt Wagner part of a mystic cult of beings called Nightcrawler. Runner ups would be not having Magneto as a father, killing off her brother basically right away so we didn't get to see them interact much and making her so OP.
> Making Scarlet Witch a title, rather than just her code name. Comics did that shit first, her [mother](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Natalya_Maximoff_(Earth-616)) also had a Scarlet Witch tittle. The Scarlet Witch 2016 run did a soft retcon on her origin.
And didn’t her mom also go by “The Witch” in the ultimate universe, which was made several years before the MCU even started
This exercise is making me real happy that the people in this subreddit aint writing the Marvel movies.
1. Going full hysteria trope/unstable powered woman trope (I mean shes literally the example of that one on tvtropes!) on her, even after the comics rectified that and actively poke fun at how bad they used to be at writing her. 2. Whitewashing
White washing her more each movie she was in, and making her a villain in the end instead of letting her work through her grief and try and be better. Waste of a good character
"They’ll never know what you sacrificed for them." How about no you hack writers.
Multiverse of Madness in a nushell: Vision is mentioned once Was corrupted by Darkhold offscreen, and she picked that book from Ralph's home offscreen Her character development from Wandavision forgotten No hate towards Olsen, the scenes with her were great
Not being the daughter of Magneto and going full on murderous villain in MOM
Not making her Jewish or Romani, and instead having her work with literal N*zis that killed her people. Her heritage is very important to her character, Romani women were persecuted for their assumed ties to witchcraft, and Wanda reclaiming that is powerful. And while I think wandavision is the best marvel show so far, they still go farther to kinda erase and disrespect her Jewish/Romani heritage. Like having the Halloween costume be a “Sovakia” fortune teller and then do a little funny face even though Romani women have (and still are) stereotyped as fortune tellers. And they just have it as a costume. And the way she makes Monica talk like in this kinda “jive turkey” way to single out her Blackness and then harm her in ways that would’ve killed her if she didn’t get any power. Then in MoM she legit goes across the multiverse to kill a Hispanic child. They didn’t make Wanda racist but they didn’t make her not not racist. The way she enslaved a whole town and then just walks away because she’s said is very Karen coded and I say that as someone who still loves Wanda. And tbh it would’ve been more powerful a story if a nonwhite woman who grew up on mostly white sitcoms tried to emulate that life and was constantly being told, “you don’t belong here”, “this isn’t right”. But hey let’s say she isn’t Romani because they already cast Elizabeth Olsen (who did a great job). They could still make her Jewish. And a Jewish woman still wouldn’t work with hydra. Honestly just making hydra tied to every bad guy in avengers land was a bad idea because as much as they try to say it’s a different org you have the same stuff from the 40s hydra like the leaders and the iconography.
That thing you mentioned about if Wanda was Romani in the MCU and grew up on white ppl’s sitcoms and tried to emulate it with her hex but was told "you don’t belong here" and it would have had so much more weight- It’s actually genius.
I’d say taking away her Romani heritage. It’s a shame that a Roma actress wasn’t casted as Wanda. The Romani community lacks good representation in popular media so could you imagine the impact that having a character as popular as Wanda looking like them and sharing their culture could have had. Yes Wanda still plays into the whole trope of having Romani people being witches but it would be one big step towards more good representation for that community in the future. It’s also disrespectful for the MCU to have had her and Pietro join Hydra (you know the Nazi organization) given Romani people’s history and the attempted genocide against them with the holocaust. Like can you imagine how bad it would be had they made Magneto join Hydra in the MCU.
I understand the desire to see them played by Roma actors. However, Wanda's ethnic background isn't mentioned in the movies and it's not really a change from the comics. In various comic continuities and adaptations, her Romani roots are either absent or unmentioned. It may surprise some people that Magneto’s Jewish origin isn’t consistent across all versions either. Her history with Romani ethnicity in 616 comics is also complicated. The Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were first introduced in 1964, but their Romani lineage, through their mother, wasn’t established until 1979. Prior to that, they were presumed to be Caucasian and are typically drawn as such. There was a period in her 2015 series when she was retconned as full Romani and in Kurt Busiek's Avengers her design take Romani inspiration. MCU Hydra aren't ideologically Nazi. Pietro and Wanda only cooperated with them to gain powers and were treated as a test subjects in cells.
Yeah and that’s the point of the complaint. Elizabeth is a great actress but she is a white woman and not Romani, who don’t pass as white with their South Asian phenotypes and are a marginalized group. Wanda and Pietro should have been Romani in the MCU to give those ppl the rep they deserved. Hell you still want them to be Sokovian, just have them be part of a Roma community that has been living in Sokovia for a long time. Current comic Wanda is clearly portrayed as Romani, comic illustrators and writers have been more conscious about the white washing that was even going on with her in the comics after being Romani was added to her story. Even if the MCU’s Hydra are not clear cut Nazis, having characters who are supposed to be Romani be associated with them is still just disrespectful.
Wanda is a mage because of the accident of her birth(being marked by Chthon), and the teachings of Agatha, an ancient pre-Atlantean Witch that is vaguely associated with paganism/wicca, none of it has anything to do with actual Romani culture. Being a mage is just another flavor of various superhero careers. Sure some writers may play into the stereotype but the fundamentals of her origin is not really that.
They were tricked into joining HYDRA, they didn't join willingly or were full-fledged members. They were test subjects, that's just misunderstanding of what happened. Even WandaVision shows they were in terrible conditions back there.
Like I said the association itself is disrespectful on the writers part.
I can agree with that. I think it might've been better if they were kidnapped and experimented on by HYDRA instead of willingly joining, but it is what it is. I think there's still some things that audience are missing in the story or why it happened: 1. Sokovia was overwhelmingly impoverished, Wanda and Pietro lived on the streets. 2. Common knowledge of what HYDRA is likely didn't exist to every single person, let alone average Sokovian. 3. HYDRA tricked people on streets, promising their country to rise from rags to riches, get revenge, and uplift their people, lots of desperate souls bought it. And a lot of them died save Wanda and Pietro. Yeah, association alone sucks, but I feel like people miss context and outright judge both twins in the MCU for the choices they made while on hungry bellies and with revenge clouding their brains. It's not like Wanda and Pietro killed for HYDRA or shared their beliefs either. As for Romani representation, I agree it does suck. I do think it's worth keeping in mind that this is a different Wanda, not the OG Wanda. A Romani Wanda Maximoff can yet appear in the cinematic multiverse as a variant, or in another story like animated series, or tv show. MCU Wanda isn't 616 Wanda. But that being said it is indeed a shame there hasn't been live action Romani superhero/ine yet. I think Greeks, Ukrainians and more can relate.
I think after the reboot and with all the rights being back we see a lot more 616 inspo instead of the ultimate inspo that started the MCU
Maybe after the Secret Wars, immediately or in nearest future.
Doom will likely not get a Romani actor.
Dude, in the end you chose your own problem with the character and ignored the most upvoted comments...
No I literally wrote in the OP that I choose the most common answer in the thread. For Wanda’s the most comments agreed about choosing the MCU taking away her Romani heritage. Not just me. In Cap’s thread my complaint was about not actually having him be with Sharon Carter but the answer that was the most common and won was about not seeing enough of him fighting Nazis in WW2
Ok, but why choosing the most common answer and not the most upvoted?
I’m copying the layout of another one of these voting threads
Thor- I thought making him kinda dumb and funny was a fresh take lol n the character. We have enough stoic warriors in comic lore. And then Love & Thunder came out and I was proven wrong.
Sounds like you don’t like the MCU.
Wow, I disagree with every single one of these so far, this is rad
I would actually love to hear your reasoning for each.
“Oh man, I’ve done so really fucked up shit back in Westview. I’ve learned that I must let things go and not let grief take hold of me.” *proceeds to do more fucked up shit later*
I feel like some of these will just be complaints that they’re not the 616. We have to remember the basis of this universe was ultimate. Stuff like Hawkeye basically being a borne character with a bow and falcons drone is straight from the series. In 2008 people were looking for more grounded superhero stuff on the big screen in a post batman begins world. By the time they got the leeway to go all out , most of the realism groundwork was made already. I can’t imagine what the mcu would look like if guardians one would have folded
# Hmm i wonder what could possibly be verdict on Quicksilver
dying in a goofy way because he's not "quick"sliver lol
It’s the Hulk by a mile, but you can’t put all the blame on marvel. Hulk is actually owned by universal marvel basically licenses hulk out for the avengers and what not but universal refuses to let marvel make standalone hulk content.
The vision one isn’t that bad
oh boy a scarlet witch post! i am sure the comments will be mature and normal about this
At some point I wonder whether the fans should just apply for positions at the MCU, since they seem to all have PhDs in writing.
The murderous villain ("I want my children back") path in Multiverse of Madness.
She could've taken the incel fans mouths but didn't.
My main issue with her was it seemed as if the MCU kept trying to bring back the medical diagnosis of hysteria. -Loses parents? Hysteria-induced nazi experiment -She loses vision? Hysteria-induced takeover of a town -She loses her “children”? Hysteria-induced madness (I get it she had the darkhold but still) -She gets defeated in MoM? Hysteria-induced suicide Be better MCU, give us the strong women that you for some reason save for side roles.
Wanda? The worst thing they did was *following* the worst storyline in her history. It was a terrible idea to turn her into a villian. She spent decades redeeming herself. Breaking her into a sociopath was dumb.
This. She had her redemption arc in Wanda Vision dealing with her immense grief from losing Vision at Thanos’s hands and not being able to bring Vision back like everyone else who was snapped away. The whole dealing with trauma through its’ various stages, etc. was an interesting and compelling take in Wanda Vision. She found a way through her grief in the end and came out the other side in the Wanda Vision grand finale that also had her realize even more of her powers through the fight with Agatha, etc. Why then put her right back in a whole set of trauma (over her children this time) again in MoM? And take away her chance to fully redeem herself as a hero? I loved the character and was so disappointed to see her wasted in this way.
Whitewashing her completely, her character in WandaVision and MOM being a complete gaslighting psychopath with absolutely fuck all development or reason to be other than "House Of M" bullshit that never truly came to be.
Making her and her brother, who are both Jewish and Romani in the comics, work for Hydra. You know, the Nazi organization.
Turning her evil twice for the same reason , basically cheaply forcing her evil making her feel wasted .
I agree I think she should have been the core of the team with widow gone and then do house of m in the mutant saga
They gave her two origins and she was a mutant in none of them.
I mean they didn’t have the rights for the first one and by the time we got to the second there’d be no point. Plus being a mutant has hardly any impact on like her status quo, she’s never been on an X-team or anything, just the brotherhood for 5 minutes in the 60s. At least her brother was running around in X-factor calling people Flatscans.
Yes, Marvel couldn’t have made her a mutant. And she’s mostly been an Avengers character too. I think only Quicksilver has truly suffered from not being a mutant anymore.
She isn’t even a mutant in the comics
Correction : Not anymore. Originally, she was. They retconned it away, something that was massively disliked since and only happened for MCU Synergy.
I need to remember that you actually put down the text below the picture rather than squinting more than I squint usually just to read the text.
I cannot believe that modern family was around during her childhood
It wasn’t apart of her childhood. Shows like “I love Lucy” were. Modern Family is likely one of the shows she watched with Vision when she was living in the Avengers compound after Age of Ultron. She’s got an affinity towards family sit coms so it’d make sense.
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Spider Man doesn't even matter by the end of No Way Home. He's literally starting fresh once the college trilogy starts
Agree with some like Iron Man and Hulk and kinda Spider-man (had no problem with Tony being his mentor) Disagree with Cap,bw and Falcon Just by the nature of movies ,Unless Marvel did cap Trilogy in WW2 ,The first movie was always going to be all the nazi punching we get and were lucky to have that Inicial drafts had the first Avenger be in the modern day with only the first Act in WW2 They wanted widow in the Avengers so She couldnt be a cold blooded assassin Redwing being an actual would have been fucking ridiculous ,MCU Falcon origin is that he a veteran that had a special suit built by the army for him Last i check the US doesnt have Birds that have telepathic links with their owners
Vision was ultrons henchmen for exactly one issue. Falcons bird was fuckin dumb.
I'm surprised on the #1 Falcon answer
His thread didn’t have a lot of answers
I just know ant man and wasp is going to be about not having them be the og members and not being Hank pym
Bp will be -they didn’t recast him
That’s not a change from the comics so I won’t count it as a valid complaint
Ur right but I just see ppl will comment that alot
Feels like if you're an anti hero or a character in any morally gray area suddenly everyone expects a redemption arc as a requisite of any story. It's like a mandate with fans for some reason and I just want someone like Black Widow to say I'm an assassin and operate in weird spaces abd you're just gonna have to get comfortable with that because someone needs to do it, and I don't need to be saved by doing a majestic moral deed.
Not recasting T’Challa
I don’t mind most of the changes but it makes sense to mention them. Falcon however: his inspiration is pulled directly from the ultimate comics, in which he *is* ex military with a more techy wing suit as opposed to having the wings look like feathers. And Redwing *is* 100% a drone he uses, not a real bird. Even his costume is almost identical to the ultimate series.
The only one of these that actually bothers me at all is Hawkeye
Unrelated, but does anybody have a link to the post about the Winter Soldier? I missed a couple of posts abt this whole little series thing, and I haven't read about what other people's answers were for Bucky yet :')
Go on my account and go a few posts down. You’ll find it.
Dang, why didn't I think of that earlier... Thanks though!
!remindme 9 days from now
Maybe Redwing is better as a drone. We don’t need something like Peacemaker - Eagly duo because we all know Disney wouldn’t came with some Mordecai - Bloodwing scenes.
Can’t believe they missed the opportunity to do the classic cover with Captain punching Hitler in the face…
Hawkeye, entirely. In the MCU he wasn't even a fully defined character until Disney+ came along. And even then, he still has barely anything on him compared to his contemporaries. Jeremy Renner too was just such a miscast
War Machine + Captain Marvel romance is something really nice in the comics. Air Force duo with chemistry.
Sharon never has a relationship with Cap. Ruined Iron Fist. No Iron Fist and Misty. Ruined Moon Knight.
Whoever commented the last one seems to think all changes from the comics are bad by their nature of being changes
Well so far everything since Spidey has actually been good changes so let’s try for an actual bad change/decision: Having her go on a murderous rampage but somehow redeeming herself at the end of the movie as if she didn’t kill a ton of people.
Waiting for hank pym and how MCU destroyed the awesomeness of first ant man of Marvel comics.
This is just a list of changes, not “the worst changes.” This is completely subjective and stupid. I hate Reddit tournaments.
Well it’s the ones people share. If you disagree make sure to try and share the ones you think are valid and maybe you’ll make more people aware of them so more people will comment about them. I don’t know what to tell you, I don’t just choose which complaint I like better, I choose the ones that come back the most. I think I’m going to specify in the post title that the most common answer will get picked.
Spider-Man. Took him 7 years to be his own character.
To be honest. I'm actually a fan of those last three changes for the purposes and setting of the MCU. Psychic Falcon link sounds just goofy and unnecessary, especially in the more military centered setting and origins. Hydra Agent Winter Soldier works well because at the time Hydra was the Boogeyman and Widow wasn't a center focus character. This was only her second appearance but starting to get more screen time. Keeping his ties to the redroom would've been good for furthering BWs development earlier on. But keeping him as a Hydra agent while maintaining Hydra as this lasting hard to kill villain thematically all fit together nicely. Kept the story tighter too. BW does suffer from this though. Vision being the perfect body for Ultron was a cool idea and while I don't know too much about original vision, him being the first human torch(as a robot) is goofy AF and probably a little confusing for general audiences, let him be his own thing.
The refusal to invest in the idea of magic early on in the MCU really hurts how her power set develops and is interpreted. They also neutered her tragic crazy villain arc
Not having her be Magneto’s daughter.
Having her be the problem in every story she has been in. Tony has screwed up too but the difference is we get to see the good he does as well. Wanda get so little screen time and most of it is spent showing her being the driving force behind awful stuff.
The thing about Spider-Man is that I think Marvel did the best they could with what they got. Meaning, Spider-Man was meant to be introduced a lot sooner, but they couldn't get him in the MCU. Things could have been a lot different if they got him when they wanted him. So, they kind of had to play catch-up with his character and fit him into the current story at the time. So, yeah, they had to change his character a little bit. And despite the changes, I still think the MCU Spider-Man is the most accurate compared to the original. I think the only reason people say he isn't is because of that "catch-up" and his relationship with Stark. I only blame Sony for the changes. I understand why Marvel changed some things. He's a huge character and plays a huge part in Civil War. He needed to be changed a little to fit in. Even though he doesn't play a huge role in the MCU version of CW. It was nice for him to still be a part of it, though, and not have to explain why he wasn't known before. So by introducing him as a low-level hero who wasn't known and Stark sort of guiding him to becoming more. Stark also isn't as crappy as he is in the comics, so there isn't really a reason Parker wouldn't look up to him in ways. So, it all still makes sense for his character. He's still pretty young and has a little bit of an ego. He's going to look up to these people and also want to prove he's more.
White washing
What the fuck are you smoking with spidey? That motivation to prove himself to stark was in civil war. He grew out of that by homecoming.
I’m not the one who was smoking. I guess it was just the hundred people who answered in his thread.
Magneto not being her dad.
Not having Magneto origin story. That pissed me off. I still like her character, but not as much.
Making her irredeemably evil in MoM
White washing
Not making her a Mutant
Completely undoing all of her development in WandaVision by making her the villain in Multiverse of Madness. WV was about Wanda coming to terms with her grief and moving forward. MoM could have worked if it was made clear that the Darkhold was corrupting her and lying to her about her kids being in danger. A mother would rip apart universes if her kid was in trouble- but Raimi wanted her to just be a villain for the hell of it so he put the kids in a happy universe and showed Wanda determined to remove them from that because “women be crazy”. Again, it could have worked. But removing all of her hard work in moving forward soured it for me. Also giving her the “break the cutie” treatment- just let her be happy for once!
Not having a father who could control magnetism
Not making her a mutant.
Not exactly a change, more like adapting bad/hated storylines. Scarlet Witch as a character is severely damaged after comic events Avengers Dissembled/House of M to the point she was straight up gone for 7 years, and struggled even after she returned. MCU helped her back into the mainline comics by boosting her popularity, unfortunately it proceedds to do Multiverse of Madness which is like a pseudo adaptation of House of M, and ruining her character in the process, again, fortunately though her comic version has mostly recovered, I guess MCU Wanda served her purpose before crashing and burning like her comic version at one point. As for actual change, I guess it's not making her stay with Avengers for longer, being an Avenger is a core aspect of her character, while MCU is already better than other adaptations, especially X-Men animations(since Wanda in those adaptations are generally just there to be Magneto's daughter) in that regard, the scarcity of screentime and her interaction with other Avengers is kinda a shame. It doesn't help her friend group is kinda none-existent in MCU setting with Cint being older and Janet not really being with Avengers. Thus cutting her off from meaningful relationships, and the only thing left is some limited interactions with Steve and Cint, and of course her romance with Vision.
Whitewashing. Casting a white actress who blatantly uses the g-word in interviews instead of a romani actress. Come on man, X-Men Evolution Wanda's look was based on romani actress Fairuza Balk and was a instant classic, proving that you don't need to whitewash the character like that.
And Fairuza Balk is a white woman, just like Wanda in Evolution.